that's an insane coincidence
#Magic the Gathering
copper pecan
tardy echo
Those are generated procedurally right
past socket
I hope that’s a coincidence if true
knotty ferry
I just went to r/freemagic, never again
copper pecan
Those are generated procedurally right
it's in set release order
glad peak
Whoever puts together the set would know on some sense
past socket
By “intent” it’s meant to be a “free speech platform”
knotty ferry
Praying I do not meet chuds like these irl
glad peak
Someone in my locals got banned for hitting on girls who just got hired
past socket
Nearly got shut down because folks weren’t moderating btw
glad peak
Literally banned because they got no game at a game store
knotty ferry
That's crazy
tardy echo
This is one where it’s like
past socket
Who knew people didn’t go to work to get creeped on?
tardy echo
Everybody says he is and I’m not inclined to disagree
But also has anybody ever verified
copper pecan
any online community focused around "free speech" is gonna be primarily composed of people who got banned from everywhere else and is typically not going to be good
past socket
I know the context of Seb McKinnon and Terese Nielsen
copper pecan
also yes harold mcneil is a neonazi
tardy echo
If you look for info it’s like infinite he said she said
past socket
but not the full story on Harold
tardy echo
I just went to r/freemagic, never again
Worst subreddit ever award
knotty ferry
But also has anybody ever verified
If you want, I can give him a call
tardy echo
Well if he’s friends with you then he must be evil
knotty ferry
?
past socket
Seb went to the trucker protests in Canada and Terese was a QAnon crank
glad peak
Who knew people didn’t go to work to get creeped on?
I know the guy was being creepy because I’ve seen him demanding the owners some shit like a matchmaking board game event
knotty ferry
I'm a pure soul
You think I'd be friends with someone like that?
My heart wouldn't allow it...
knotty ferry
I know the guy was being creepy because I’ve seen him demanding the owners some ...
Nah this is crazy lmao
Monopoly dating show
tardy echo
also yes harold mcneil is a neonazi
I don’t want to sound like one of those people this is truly for my own curiosity but do u know where I can verify this info
glad peak
I know of another guy who was yelling slurs in events and got banned too
His reasoning for yelling slurs? No one stopped him and he has anxiety and that’s just how he communicates 
knotty ferry
These are real humans?
sleek ferry
Like my man gaytor once said; "tcg players are just highly functional creeps"
or something like that
knotty ferry
This doesn't sound functional
tardy echo
I don’t remember saying that but it’s true
knotty ferry
If you can't stop yourself from saying slurs
sleek ferry
you said it to spatula when the guy told him he wasn't a big toucher
glad peak
I went to that lgs for an event and he wouldn’t stop talking to people about how he got banned from the other store
tardy echo
Though I’d rather just say affluent than functional
knotty ferry
I went to that lgs for an event and he wouldn’t stop talking to people about how...
Bro is flexing
tardy echo
This doesn't sound functional
Stopping myself from low hanging fruit
sleek ferry
They call mud hellraiser where he's from, since he loves his cubes
tardy echo
They call mud hellraiser where he's from, since he loves his cubes
This is bars actually
glad peak
Bro is flexing
Nah he was mad about it and trying to tell everyone not to go there anymore
knotty ferry
Are you sure these people are affluent or just spending all their disposable income on one hobby
glad peak
They call mud hellraiser where he's from, since he loves his cubes
They call me that for other reasons too but it makes sense in this context too 
A lot of the worst of these people I’ve seen have gone to one piece interestingly enough
tardy echo
Are you sure these people are affluent or just spending all their disposable inc...
Even if they’re spending to their limits it requires a pretty high budget to afford mtg
twilit canyon
ive honestly only had or seen a very small handful of bad lgs experiences
tardy echo
Or card games in general
twilit canyon
but one i will always remember is just a sad case where its some crusty 55 y old + his 3 crusty sons and i mean that literally
twilit canyon
thank god it was pandemic times and i could avoid touching them but eugh
glad peak
The worst person I’ve dealt with wouldn’t allow any table talk or take backs in a casual game even if the spell wasn’t even out of the hand
knotty ferry
I've been told that once upon a time...
twilit canyon
fortunately i only played the middle child round 1. 2-0'd him quick and left
glad peak
Guy literally punched another guy during an event
knotty ferry
WTF
glad peak
Obviously he got banned
twilit canyon
yeah its called california
glad peak
I’m pretty sure I’ve talked about this guy here before
past socket
I’m glad I haven’t dealt with horror stories
copper pecan
I don’t want to sound like one of those people this is truly for my own curiosit...
he literally has a bunch of art with swastikas in them on his website
knotty ferry
That makes sense actually
sleek ferry
tbh, the more unserious state you live in, the mroe you'll run into these people
I've never had this issue at my locals
knotty ferry
If I had to pay $9 a gallon, I'd start punching people too
glad peak
tbh, the more unserious state you live in, the mroe you'll run into these people
Where do you live in
knotty ferry
New York (unserious)
glad peak
The most chill locals I’ve gone to is in Washington
past socket
I’m from Australia so like
twilit canyon
oregon has some chill locals
glad peak
New York (unserious)
Oh I love the magic set based on you guys
sleek ferry
The only unusual thing I've ever had happen to me at locals was dude begging me for my linkedin
twilit canyon
some of the better locals i've been to
knotty ferry
Who is you guys
past socket
Probably tracks for folks at my locals being heaps chill
copper pecan
the worst i've seen is someone getting kicked out of the lgs for yelling at children
knotty ferry
I don't claim new York wtf
glad peak
But yeah I’m surprised people remember I’m in Cali
twilit canyon
back in illinois, i had a dedicated hater
copper pecan
kid used a card that was on the banlist that he didn't know was on the banlist and the guy he was playing against got really mad about it
knotty ferry
An opp?
twilit canyon
yea day 1 too
knotty ferry
Damn chiraq mtg is crazy huh
glad peak
I had an opp too but it was all in good fun
glad peak
I don't claim new York wtf
Too bad you’re spider man now
twilit canyon
we sat down for fnm, modern and he was bragging as men do when they play into women about how good he is at playing izzet
unfortunately he wasnt all that and i beat him handily on humans and he was a bit salty
knotty ferry
Too bad you’re spider man now
It's actually called kavaero the mind bitten 🤓
sleek ferry
I accidentally cheated a guy out of a win at avatar prerelease, but I went up to him afterwards and was like my bad, and we laughed about it
glad peak
Washington locals are just retired dads
sleek ferry
how was I supposed to know ba sing se was sorcery speed
twilit canyon
but holy shit when i started getting into playing izzet myself, he got mad as hell
he took it as a personal insult
glad peak
Oh yeah I had a similar experience there but not the man vs woman angle
glad peak
Got to the point where it was murktide mirror matches and he would concede immediately once I got any advantage, even if it’s turn 1 ragavan
sleek ferry
niv mizzet also fought and got killed by Nicol Bolas
twilit canyon
Got to the point where it was murktide mirror matches and he would concede immed...
this was the same guy i am p sure i shared about b4 here where he auto tilted into me when playing murktide mirrors too lmfao
knotty ferry
Nicolas bicolas the tutorial 🐐
glad peak
I don’t think we’re talking about the same guy unless he moved out there
sleek ferry
and then we got [[niv mizzet ressurected]]
lost widgetBOT
twilit canyon
oh nah not the same person lol
glad peak
Well I know he moved after punching a guy but
knotty ferry
No resurrection
sleek ferry
[[niv mizzet reborn]]
lost widgetBOT
twilit canyon
i meant my own guy was also super salty about izzet
nah this was like 7 years ago and i was the one who left
glad peak
My guy played a raw ledger shredder in the mirror and scooped immediately after I bolted it
past socket
Rakdos is the longest surviving signatory of the Guildpact, fun fact
sleek ferry
rakdos is also like 150 feet tall
knotty ferry
Dude earlier today I played vs this mono white artifact deck and I got fucked
They need to ban every artifact
past socket
10000 years old while not looking a day over 2500
twilit canyon
salty magic players are so funny tho
glad peak
My guy also kept a 1 lander, considered twice, then just left the store
twilit canyon
you will hear the freshest and newest excuses of all time
glad peak
Game 1, Round 1
past socket
Improving is unfair to the average player after all
glad peak
The funny thing is, this guy was legitimately a good player, he just happened to always lose to me
twilit canyon
i started playing face up once to tell him he had no chance and he quoted reid duke
tardy echo
niv mizzet also fought and got killed by Nicol Bolas
Ok but then he came back and Nicol bolas is still fried in his spirit dimension or wherever he got stuck in
sleek ferry
Ok but then he came back and Nicol bolas is still fried in his spirit dimension ...
isn't Jace about to release him, leading to the reality fracture
tardy echo
Is that what Jace is doing???
knotty ferry
Reid duke? That's thugs's god
tardy echo
Is he about to make a literal deal with the actual devil to bring back all the people that died
sleek ferry
Reid's been dodging me at locals
knotty ferry
Reid's been dodging me at locals
Cause u smell funny
glad peak
you will hear the freshest and newest excuses of all time
One I’ve heard: “your sister who’s sitting next to you just watching was distracting and gave you an advantage”
knotty ferry
Lemme sniff
glad peak
I’ll be the judge of that
sleek ferry
just don't smell me after work
knotty ferry
Ok I'm gonna buy another foil cecil
I looked at my bank account earlier today
Realized I'm still loaded
So fuck it
sleek ferry
this is what happens when you get paid 200k while living in bumble fuck iowa
knotty ferry
Hell yeah
twilit canyon
quality on them can be iffy at times even sleeved
twilit canyon
just keep a big textbook ready
sleek ferry
As long as you sleeve and binder them you'll be fine
glad peak
My favorite community moment is when the 3 card blind community determined phelia needed to get banned and then just shifted the deck to aphelia (as in not-phelia)
can’t remember if she got banned too
twilit canyon
lol
glad peak
Cecil got banned long ago of course
fallow citrus
did this get posted
twilit canyon
i didnt see it if so
knotty ferry
Idk if this is good but they need to stop giving red blue more cards
twilit canyon
its okay
could have cost 4
uurr
but ik the set wants you to cast 5+ so
sure
probs good in draft better than your usual wrath in these colors
sleek ferry
Draw 4 as a second mode is kinda nice
sleek ferry
Idk if this is good but they need to stop giving red blue more cards
The majority of leaks seem to be prismari cards rn dw
Your school; quandrix, will get its time
past socket
Oh yeah they’re doing reveals by school
I wonder if we”re getting Adrix in the main set
Since Nev is in the precon
trail anvil
could have cost 4
for the modality, I think 5 is fine
divination is 3 mana and the board wipe hits planeswalkers too
sleek ferry
Yeah, 5 mana modal draw 4 or board wipe is kinda insane in limited
burnt relic
oh yeah i got to play my first irl game today
much better than just doing test hands
past socket
Let’s go!
glad peak
How was that?
burnt relic
i lucked into ineffable ugin + mystic forge early
then nobody had a counter for [[selective obliteration]] so i just got to take control of the game
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
Yeah, 5 mana modal draw 4 or board wipe is kinda insane in limited
I feel like if standard were slower it'd be great there too 😭
glad peak
Ineffable ugin? Idk hes kinda hot sometimes
burnt relic
-2 cost on everything and refresh the topdeck for forge was goated
copper pecan
interesting that they call him the ineffable when many people would consider him to be quite effable
past socket
Oh yeah 2 colourless discount sounds mint as hell
tardy echo
I feel like if standard were slower it'd be great there too 😭
Idk about this one
lost widgetBOT
sleek ferry
[[burn down the house]]
lost widgetBOT
sleek ferry
And this actually saw fringe play
tardy echo
Burn down your house is crazy what’d I do
sleek ferry
Question Komilliam
tardy echo
Who??
Did anybody post the mana drain
I didn’t see it so
1UU counter target spell if you control a wizard add colorless equal to the mana spent to cast it at the beginning of next main
It’s in the standard set
Why do I feel like this was already a card that existed but I can’t find it anywhere
sleek ferry
Yes, solar loves it
tardy echo
Probably not great in standard probably v good in commander
Mana drain #2 will probably ruin a lot of timmys days
sleek ferry
Yeah probably solid in casual commander
Doesn’t make anywhere near the cut for Cedh though
tardy echo
Isn’t Vivi already the saltiest commander in the game or something
This won’t help matters there
sleek ferry
In cedh? Not even close
tardy echo
Cedh salt doesn’t count
Those people sign themselves up for it
Across all brackets though I’m p sure it’s Vivi
honest berry
oh goody. teferi's puzzle box in a rive song deck. everyone else has to play with a new hand each turn
subtle sierra
I didn’t see it so
It was leaked with emeritus
Hmmm I'm starting to consider [[mindspring merfolk]] for mana sculpt
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Merfolk Wizard
Exhaust — 
, 
: Draw X cards. Put a +1/+1 counter on each Merfolk creature you control. (Activate each exhaust ability only once.)
The Invasion roused the reclusive jalpari from the depths. Since then, they had fully integrated into Avishkari society.
1/1
subtle sierra
She's on par with draw at x = 2
But she's kinda ass to draw late
Oh wait there's two more merfolk in the art i didn't notice lol
glad peak
Cedh has to be the least salty group in edh and you see how salty they get
But yeah mana drain does nothing there
trail anvil
wait we keep trying to think about what the best wizard for [[mana sculpt]] is, and we've been overlooking the best wizard in standard
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
whatever, the mana drain for wizards
you just use firdoch core though
not as fast as t3 but means you can hold up mana to protect your big spell too ig
zinc shard
yeah FIC is Commander
past socket
Y’shtola precon, yeah
Really love the story behind the reprint of Archmage Emeritus in that precon too
subtle sierra
you just use firdoch core though
Well yeah
But imo it's also important to have one for t1/2
So you can threaten sculpt for t3
For a potential jeskai revelation or w/e turn 4
I'm thinking of that merfolk, the new mill wizard in sos and thundertrap trainer
trail anvil
I feel like that merfolk is kinda bad from what I've seen of it but idk
atomic harness
I built a dumb raffine thing where you connive fat bunguses then reanimate them
It's cool
Then the plan B is just esper midrange
[[monument to Endurance]] this thing is a little silly
lost widgetBOT
subtle sierra
I feel like that merfolk is kinda bad from what I've seen of it but idk
Let me cope
Like realistically i play firdoch
Especially when i wanna play that in a deck with dispelling exhale
subtle sierra
They're all playable
The golgari one is the best imo
Followed by prismari and silverquill imo
Boros is slightly meh and quandrix is ehhh
Like if you look at it as a quench with upside it's fine
past socket
I’ve been between Silverquill and Lorehold to get some more white in my repertoire, leaning toward Silverquill
glad peak
I should really develop celes some more
Played the deck again today and deck is still as fun as ever and can turbo out t2-4 even with a couple cards and ideas I’m iffy on
sudden lava
5WW
Sorcery Lesson
Return target nonland permanent in your graveyard to the battlefield.
Paradigm
"Restorative Lesson"
subtle sierra
So probably restoration capstone
atomic harness
@glad peak Can you send me a good rog thras list
knotty ferry
Does totalitarian community college only do commander now
subtle sierra
totalitarian
knotty ferry
I watched some of his vids about standard but they were kinda old
And he doesn't seem to have many recent vids about it
golden plover
He's mentioned recently wanting to play standard, but he's primarily a paper player
And paper standard is prohibitively expensive rn
He's better off than a lot of people and could probably afford it
But I think the $600 deck price tag is holding a lot of people back
knotty ferry
Aren't most decks like $400
golden plover
Lessons and Dimir are about $350-$400
Pretty much every other real deck is $550+
Mono Green will run you about $550-$600
Excruciatiator is about $500 and bad
Jeskai or Jeskai Black are about $550
Rhythm decks are almost $800
sleek ferry
I haven’t seen a rhythmn deck on the ladder in probably over 200 matches
Either ways, there’s a good amount of budget decks seeing success
Mono white momo has seen a lot of recent success and is cheap
tardy echo
Prowess is pretty cheap isn’t it
sleek ferry
Azorius tempo is also pretty cheap (running 2 riddlers is preference)
tardy echo
And the spellementals deck
But there’s not a ton of variety in playstyle for budget decks right now
sleek ferry
Spellementals is cheapish yeah, steam vents are still kinda pricy
tardy echo
If u really need to u can sub it for something else
golden plover
Spellementals is about $300 so it's cheaper but that's still a decent bit
I think you can probably pick up prowess for $200ish? Depends on stormchasers
tardy echo
I hate to say that’s about normal for most card games these days
sleek ferry
I’m seeing $240 on izzet spellementals
Mono white momo is 188
The mono red aggro/burn build is 209
tardy echo
U can also make some budget concessions for lessons to make it significantly cheaper
The actual core of that deck is dirt
sleek ferry
You can cut anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of most of these decks prices by running cheaper lands yeah
sleek ferry
And once you have a playset of any given shock, you have them forever
tardy echo
A lot of decks also just have
An extra $100-200 tacked on for side boarded riddlers
lol
tardy echo
Which again if you’re on a budget you can make concessions in the side boarded
sleek ferry
There’s only 3 real expensive cards in mtg right now and one of them isn’t mained by most decks
Cub, riddler and wan shi tong
stark skiff
And he doesn't seem to have many recent vids about it
Dead format. He’s mostly draft and commander. Every like 2 months he’ll drop one. I think he did one talking about the price and multiple playable decks as the most recent one
stark skiff
Cub, riddler and wan shi tong
Ouro lol
tardy echo
But yeah ourobouroid is also money
tardy echo
Icetill is a rare buddy
I thought it was uncommon son give me a break
stark skiff
Dead format. He’s mostly draft and commander. Every like 2 months he’ll drop one...
Vid I was talking about.
stark skiff
And once you have a playset of any given shock, you have them forever
I don’t get people who get rid of their lands lol
knotty ferry
Dead format. He’s mostly draft and commander. Every like 2 months he’ll drop one...
Dead format???
sleek ferry
Adam is talking out his wazoo ignore him
knotty ferry
Tbh I do think it's crazy that the format called "standard" gets so much less attention (from what I've seen) than other formats
tardy echo
Commander players will just say anything…
tardy echo
Tbh I do think it's crazy that the format called "standard" gets so much less at...
Historically it was much worse
There was a period in time when standard was actually the least played format that wotc officially supported
knotty ferry
Does mtg not see this as an issue
I guess if they're selling products for commander or whatever it doesn't matter
sleek ferry
Other format players are also just more voicetrous
knotty ferry
But idk, it wouldn't sit with me right if my format called standard wasn't played much
stark skiff
Commander players will just say anything…
tardy echo
I’m pretty sure back during like the zendikar block when all the cards were horrible and everyone really hated standard that modern was the most played format
Now it’s commander
sleek ferry
Like pauper, premodern and legacy players LOVE talking about their format 24:7 even though nobody cares
golden plover
Commander has also just been pushed super hard as the "casual fun format"
And a lot of players don't wanna "try hard" or "deal with the meta" so they won't touch 60 card formats
tardy echo
Standard isn’t called standard as in “standard of play” it’s more like
knotty ferry
That's such a pussy mentality bro
knotty ferry
Incomprehensible to me
tardy echo
Standard hasn’t ever been the most popular format afaik
sleek ferry
You have to remember the average age of mtg players
knotty ferry
75?
stark skiff
Adam is talking out his wazoo ignore him
Oh thugs I got first at my commander night and got 3 duskmorn packs. Got a Balemurk and Borderless Gloomlake
sleek ferry
I’m sure at 45 my competitive drive might dwindle a lil
knotty ferry
Mine wont
golden plover
It also hasn't helped standard that we're only just now hitting a point where it's been playable for the first time in like a year and a half
knotty ferry
I'll be sending my kids to compete with other kids
sleek ferry
Oh thugs I got first at my commander night and got 3 duskmorn packs. Got a Balem...
Nice job son, you gifting me those?
stark skiff
Nice job son, you gifting me those?
Sold them on sight. Sorry bro. Easy money.
sleek ferry
It also hasn't helped standard that we're only just now hitting a point where it...
This is so false lmao
golden plover
This is so false lmao
We literally had 2 tier 0 formats back to back and a bad rock paper scissors format before them
sleek ferry
Vivi is the only time you can say the game was “unplayable” bean format was goated
stark skiff
Save some for us poors
Yes I am a poor. Please help me.
golden plover
Bean Format was literally rock paper scissors
You could decide the game by looking at opening hands 80% of the time lol
And then cori format was also unplayable
sleek ferry
This is objectively false lol
golden plover
Cori was a single deck format where the game was over in like 3 turns lmao
Vivi was, if anything, slightly more interactive than cori
sleek ferry
Bean format had around the same number of viable decks as we do now
golden plover
And I know some people liked Beans format but it was so polarizing they did a slaughter list
knotty ferry
If standard is expensive, wtf is modern lol
How do people play that
DO PEOPLE JUST PLAY COMMANDER?
golden plover
Modern decks don't rotate as frequently
sleek ferry
And I know some people liked Beans format but it was so polarizing they did a sl...
And this was a mistake because it’s literally the main reason Vivi dominated lol
twilit canyon
modern decks are also not that much more expensivr nowdays
golden plover
Nah beans was only gonna get better with Tarkir onwards
stark skiff
DO PEOPLE JUST PLAY COMMANDER?
https://tenor.com/view/it-took-you-long-enough-loki-thor-thor-ragnarok-toilet-gif-308434859407203885
twilit canyon
with the inevitable card releases yeah this town going was a good thing
golden plover
Debatably the only questionable hit was Abuelos
twilit canyon
not truly
golden plover
But even then, it wasn't really a fun deck to play around so
twilit canyon
you never want omni to be a good turn 4 deck
golden plover
Abuelos games were a coin flip of if it was over t4 or if they lost t4 yeah
twilit canyon
and kona is way less reliable
golden plover
It just had the most counterplay of the 4 so it was the one you could make the strongest argument for keeping around
But the slaughter list for beans was kinda all necessary
God can you imagine beans into Warp???
Riddler Casually draws 3
Honestly with how many set releases are happening per year, they really should be more proactive on the banlist as a whole
sleek ferry
You would literally need a 0 card hand for that scenario
golden plover
Yeah that wouldn't be that hard in the Simic+ ramp decks
They casually do that already
twilit canyon
yeah im not terribly afraid of beans -> warp
golden plover
But riddler also would be draw 2 off beans as is
twilit canyon
sounds like a durdly deck
golden plover
It'd depend yeah, but I think with warp in the pipeline, beans going was correct
sleek ferry
Beans would have only been a real problem come Lorwyn
stark skiff
sleek ferry
looks nice for draft/sealed
would have been solid if it had been 1 mana cheap for constructed
tardy echo
If standard is expensive, wtf is modern lol
Nonrotating and some of the decks people play are built on cores that have existed for literally over 10 years
sleek ferry
Can that even be said anymore post mh? Other than prime time
Though can we even call prime time players “people”?
tardy echo
Can that even be said anymore post mh? Other than prime time
Affinity idk
And isn’t goryos a boomer modern deck
sleek ferry
Goryos was also ass before it got new life breathed into it
sleek ferry
Like people still play merfolk (I’m people)
tardy echo
It’s not like titan has spent every one of the last 15 years being dominant in modern
Just… a majority of them
tardy echo
Unironically I’m pretty sure that pioneer is the cheapest 60 card format now
sleek ferry
Pioneer just shouldn’t exist as a format
It’s standard+ with nothing to differentiate it enough from modern or from standard
tardy echo
I mean they just abandoned ship with it
golden plover
The thing is, with a curated banlist pioneer would have a lot of its own identity rn
Greasefang and Vore combo are interesting decks that don't exist elsewhere
Phoenix was cool before it just became Izzet Cori
sleek ferry
The thing is, with a curated banlist pioneer would have a lot of its own identit...
The issue with this, is now you’re just hitting for the sake of differentiating the format and not for balance
golden plover
I mean, there are definitely some hits that need to be both in the format
Cori and Vivi are unacceptable
Thoughtseize is debatable too, there's some very real discussion about it being too much for Pioneer
sleek ferry
I also think you can blame historic more for the death of pioneer. Their premier online only format takes precedent over pioneer
Technically over alchemy too, since alchemy and historic both have sets curated for them
golden plover
I mean, historic very likely wouldn't have taken over if they didn't give up on pioneer
Again, the issue is that they just gave up on the format
tardy echo
I mean from its inception pioneer was sort of known for just like
Being the weird middle child idk
golden plover
I know it coming out during covid at first didn't help
But that isn't the same problem as the current one
tardy echo
The actual pioneer thing, if it could be said to have one, was just having a lot of ban lists a month
golden plover
Three fucking years of no official pioneer support is CRAZY
tardy echo
And being popular w weirdo combo fiends
So it’s not shocking that it fell off in popularity
golden plover
Still think they could've saved it if they didn't just give up for 3-4 years tho
tardy echo
Prolonged maybe but saved probably not
sleek ferry
Like cake said, I just think that pioneer as a concept was destined for failure from the beginning
Modern makes sense, standard makes sense
tardy echo
It’s easy to give a widespread appeal reason as to why a lot of people would play modern
sleek ferry
Even legacy makes sense as bad as their players are
tardy echo
I cannot think of one for why people would play pioneer over modern
Having x y z decks while cool and attracts some players is not something that makes a format last
Most charitably, I could see a world where pioneer gets played as a secondary format for a lot of people how standard used to be because of how cheap it is
But those aren’t actual legs for a format
Like pioneer was kind of made as a temporary fix for problems people had with both the other 60 card formats
Once those problems stopped applying so did the need for pioneer especially when online only formats fill a pretty similar niche and are easier to support on wotcs end
sleek ferry
Not just that, also, the decrease interest in 60 card formats
It’s the same reason why it feels like legacy players disappeared over night
There’s only so many 60 card formats that can garner interest to the average player
And those 60 card formats as of now are undoubtedly standard and modern
golden plover
True. I think initially, while not saying it, part of the appeal they wanted for pioneer was price
And now it's roughly the same price as standard or modern since it uses the same staples
Yup, looks like most decks are about $600ish
sleek ferry
The theory of it was probably also meant as a way to make more people play standard as well. As their cards rotated, they had a middle format to go to in pioneer, so the rotation didn’t feel as bad
golden plover
Yeah and 3 year rotation didn't help that either
Tbh 3 year rotation feels like it's caused way more issues than it's helped imo
It sure is
Actually wait this is crazy
atomic harness
Pog
sleek ferry
Wait how does flashback interact with the free commander spells
Are they still free?
[[jeska’s will]]
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Sorcery
Choose one. If you control a commander as you cast this spell, you may choose both instead.
• Add 
for each card in target opponent's hand.
• Exile the top three cards of your library. You may play them this turn.
"Gather your strength. Prepare yourself." —Jeska, to Radha
tardy echo
[[fierce guardianship]]
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tardy echo
[[deflecting swat]] [[something haze with a bug on it]]
tardy echo
So close
sleek ferry
Yeah there you go
tardy echo
You could cast for free right
sleek ferry
Going by the wording, you would still have to pay the mana cost no?
If you use flashback?
stark skiff
Holy shit this is great
subtle sierra
so simple and so good
sleek ferry
This slots right into Harmonizer
tardy echo
Going by the wording, you would still have to pay the mana cost no?
The wording is cast no
Have we ever had flashbacks that discount or anything
sleek ferry
The wording is cast no
The wording is its mana cost
Does flashback invalidate this?
@gilded glade judge, I need a ruling
stark skiff
1WW
Sorcery
Create two 2/2 red and white Spirit creature tokens. Then, if this spell was cast from anywhere other than your hand, put a +1/+1 counter on each Spirit you control.
Flashback 4WW
sleek ferry
I cast flashback targeting the deflecting swat in my GY. My commander is on the field, do I have to pay the flashback cost, in order to cast deflecting swat?
stark skiff
You need to pay the cost
sleek ferry
That’s what I figured
golden plover
I cast flashback targeting the deflecting swat in my GY. My commander is on the ...
I think so? flashback gives it a new alternative cost
Also this is funny
sleek ferry
Yeah, that makes the most sense
sleek ferry
LETS GO @twilit canyon
tardy echo
This card seems actually good no?
sleek ferry
Wait fuck, this mega buffs lessons
tardy echo
1 mana draw 3 discard 2
Esp w the artifact that doubles mana
Also those are gay people right
Pogger
knotty ferry
sleek ferry
:renren: is crazy
twilit canyon
LETS GO <@480437470870110209>
holy
subtle sierra
my low cost wizard...
twilit canyon
nvm i re-read the red emeritus its kinda shit
twilit canyon
Also does the bolt count for the spell count
yes
knotty ferry
how would that even work
sleek ferry
Ok so it’s basically 2 spells a turn
No, you can’t cast it if it’s not prepared
knotty ferry
you cant cast it till its prepared
twilit canyon
its a min turn 5 bolt
sleek ferry
It’s still 3
tardy echo
No, you can’t cast it if it’s not prepared
Not what I’m asking
twilit canyon
i thought you meant if the creature counted as a spell
sleek ferry
Yeah lol
knotty ferry
twilit canyon
so turn would be emeritus -> 2 spells -> bolt
thats minimum t5 to bolt the same turn
tardy echo
What if I just cast double orbithopter
subtle sierra
what if i cheat misty 
tardy echo
Checkmate
subtle sierra
yes aeri
twilit canyon
then you are playing ornithopters in a red aggro deck. gg
u could have made this say 2 spells in one turn and it'd still be bad
tardy echo
Just wait until I cast tinker on my ornithopter for blightsteel
Now that lightning bolt looks real scary doesn’t it
sleek ferry
This slots into the lessons build Simon Nielsen has been talking about, where you cut stormchasers and boomerang
tardy echo
It seems good no
Oh wait
End of their next turn
Nvm it’s basically just aven interruptor
golden plover
Oh next turn
twilit canyon
ultimately it was 5 mana
golden plover
Yeah that's lame
tardy echo
I thought it said end of the next turn
golden plover
Maybe with interrupt or you can just remove their shit for good
tardy echo
Would’ve been a little crazy
golden plover
I thought it said end of the next turn
I wanted to do it to their guy in the end step to just remove him smh
sleek ferry
Nvm it’s basically just aven interruptor
Just an Aven interrupter? You just named the goat of the format
Word me @subtle sierra
tardy echo
Anyways if the emeritus cycle is just gonna be the 1 mana 3 cycle for the colors
Will be very dry
sleek ferry
Sigh
golden plover
Anyways if the emeritus cycle is just gonna be the 1 mana 3 cycle for the colors
Get ready for Giant Growth and Healing Salve to suck shit too
tardy echo
Like surely they’ll find actual interesting boomer cards
Black can be. Idk. Thoughtseize or something
sleek ferry
Like surely they’ll find actual interesting boomer cards
Those are in the commander precons son
golden plover
Black can be. Idk. Thoughtseize or something
Black gets Dark Rit
At least if they're doing the full cycle
sleek ferry
Black’s prepare cost will probably be something like “a creature you control died this turn”
subtle sierra
or sacrificed a creature
tardy echo
At least if they're doing the full cycle
No I’m saying I hope they don’t do the full cycle
golden plover
I hope the white one is balance
tardy echo
Because giant growth and healing salve are boring as fuck
And even ritual is a little dry
golden plover
Because healing salve is lame as hell
subtle sierra
[[balance]]
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tardy echo
What if the green one is veil of summer…
golden plover
I'll take swords but it's Zzzz
golden plover
What if the green one is veil of summer…
They're all from alpha
We know that at least
sleek ferry
Time to check the alpha card list
gilded glade
<@141131991218126848> judge, I need a ruling
Flashback is an alternate casting cost, no free spell for you
golden plover
Maros teaser says "a cycle that casts iconic cards from alpha"
gilded glade
(Casting for free is also an alternate casting cost, and you can't combine two alternate casting costs)
golden plover
Or "an iconic cycle from alpha" can't remember which
tardy echo
Grrrr
gilded glade
We do know white is not healing salve
tardy echo
Crop Rotation has the hammer icon
I haven’t looked at an og crop rot in years bun
golden plover
We do know white is not healing salve
Did they say that?
gilded glade
I haven’t looked at an og crop rot in years bun
I don't need to my brain has all the images
gilded glade
Did they say that?
Blake did yeah
sleek ferry
Flashback is an alternate casting cost, no free spell for you
Thank you judge 🫡
golden plover
Alpha gives us Berserk, Fastbond, of maybe Fog for green
[[Camouflage]] if they wanna be funny
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sleek ferry
[[death ward]]
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tardy echo
They already did channel grrr
tardy echo
Alpha gives us Berserk, Fastbond, of maybe Fog for green
If these are the options they’re just gonna do giant growth lol
golden plover
Actually I want it to be camouflage
twilit canyon
they're gonna hit us with the hurricane
tardy echo
Constricting themselves to the most boring shit ever
sleek ferry
Wait, white is going to be swords to plowshares clearly
golden plover
Nah we're getting [[Tsunami]]
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golden plover
That's even funnier
tardy echo
Oh wait
Regrowth is alpha
It’ll probably just be that no
It’s also in theme w witherbloom theming
twilit canyon
some call it the most boring mythic known to man
golden plover
It’s also in theme w witherbloom theming
It's Quandrix
They're all the secondary color of their school
twilit canyon
i dont believe wotc is based enough to do berserk
golden plover
Green will be Quandrix, White will be Silverquill, Black will be Witherbloom
So Black is totally dark rit
tardy echo
It's Quandrix
Well it’s also sort of in theme with that
golden plover
White could be Indestructible and cast Wrath maybe?
sleek ferry
[[blaze of glory]]
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tardy echo
I think safe bets for G are regrowth giant growth or fog
subtle sierra
deathtouch defender 10/1 with blaze of glory pog??
twilit canyon
fog could be cool
tardy echo
But if they’re trying to be funny about it it could be the land hate
Tsunami or ice storm
Or if they’re trolling camouflage/berserk
The real secret option… [[lifelace]]
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twilit canyon
this card is green (now) for an amazing reason
golden plover
I want [[Camouflage]]
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golden plover
It'd be hilarious to see that textbox
tardy echo
Is this just
Create bands and randomly assign them
Unfortunate to have the pool stuck in alpha when green only started getting based cards in 9th edition
Imagine if an emeritus pulled up w biorhythm
Or summer bloom but that would be dogass in standard
Speaking of chat I saw someone say the other day that bloom could be unbanned in modern
Do we have thoughts on that
sleek ferry
[[summer bloom]]
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golden plover
[[Seedtime]] would be funny
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tardy echo
I really think it’ll probably just be regrowth
Esp considering green hasn’t gotten many regrowths in a long time
golden plover
That'll feel kinda bad on a mythic tho
tardy echo
That'll feel kinda bad on a mythic tho
What green option do they have that doesn’t feel bad genuine question
Because every single green option from alpha that isn’t named tsunami is abysmal dogshit
golden plover
What green option do they have that doesn’t feel bad genuine question
Berserk or Fastbond feel acceptable
tardy echo
Giant growth has been standard legal for like 5 years and I think most people don’t even realize
Fastbond is an enchantment
tardy echo
Berserk is also still bad lol
tardy echo
Regrowth also fits quandrix 
golden plover
Does it? It's more witherbloom
tardy echo
It’s both
Do quandrix not literally like shape the forests and stuff and grow them to look like that
Tsunami is also in line with quandrix because it has blue on its art!!!
golden plover
I mean, I guess? But they're more math and fractals and stuff and that's usually make stats
tardy echo
Well from a card design perspective quandrix is v big on x spells this set
golden plover
The white one is actually [[Purelace]]
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tardy echo
And regrowth lets you recycle them and has added flexibility w them because you can cast it and then add it back to cast again on the cheap
Sigh I already made the lifelace joke
Quandrix cares about +1/+1 counters not just the stat itself
So growth doesn’t even fit that in line with it
golden plover
Yeah unfortunately there's no good green option
Akroma's Will, Jeska's Will, and Second Harvest arts
tardy echo
Also ppl kind of brushed over it but the 5 mana draw 4/deal 4 to everything seems good as well no?
tardy echo
Yeah unfortunately there's no good green option
I think regrowth would unironically be fine enough
Esp if they give it a good condition or whatever
The first time a card goes to your graveyard each turn this card gets prepared or something idk
But that is very much more of a witherbloom card then quandrix at that point
fallow citrus
Esp if they give it a good condition or whatever
landfall - this card becomes prepared
subtle sierra
path to exile but hits planeswalkers
twilit canyon
kinda sick
glad peak
What cost
Can’t wait for some of my modern locals to try this and then realize they can just play path
tardy echo
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1430180425036337204/1489672879816835183/R...
Path is back in standard?????
Also lets you self ramp if you’re one of those kinds of people
tardy echo
There’s 0% that the white spell isn’t swords if they’re ok with this being main deck able
subtle sierra
slight sidegrade
tardy echo
Exile vs destroy isn’t a super huge deal and planeswalker is sort of a really really big upside
White struggles to remove planeswalkers quite often
Though that’s not a huge deal in standard rn
golden plover
Yeah losing exile to hit walkers instead is probably usually better
This is legit insane
tardy echo
Also exile vs destroy also makes this better as a self target
Which has always been the secret hidden mode on path
tardy echo
White rampant growth 
tardy echo
I’m not begging that’s literally what path/this card are son holy
steady onyx
I’m not begging that’s literally what path/this card are son holy
nah
rampant growth is 2 mana
😅
this is one mana
lets use our brains plz
tardy echo
Unreal that you feel the need to speak to me like that when u aren’t aware of ways that cards have historically been used
Keep up your studies bud
Path self target is something people would do in a non-negligible amount of games
steady onyx
Path self target is something people would do in a non-negligible amount of game...
i know
tardy echo
To the point where being white rampant growth became an actual joke
glad peak
So the bolt guy is actually closer to 2 spells than 3 after you get the first prepare off, pretty cool
glad peak
Since you store a prepare then cast 2 things then bolt to get back prepare
Pretty nice
glad peak
Doesn’t do anything in modern even if the nut turn is cori then this card then bauble
And then every turn after that you get a bolt for ever cori trigger you get
tardy echo
I mean it’s only 5 mana if you do it the turn you cast
But the card is not good I agree
steady onyx
I mean it’s only 5 mana if you do it the turn you cast
u just play this t2 no?
golden plover
If you play it on 2 it never gets to bolt
steady onyx
its 2.2 or 1,1
glad peak
You want to prepare (not necessarily cast the bolt) on the turn it enters
steady onyx
?
golden plover
It'll die on 3 lol
tardy echo
Playing my 2 drop with a bad attacking statline to then play all my 3 drops on turn 3 so that it can deal 3 damage on turn 4
Assuming that they don’t just kill it on the spot
glad peak
If they kill it then that’s completely fine
steady onyx
no
lke u go first
t1 u like play idk lizard dude
they also play lizard
t2 u play this
they shock play a 1 drop
ggwp
tardy echo
True if they kill it that means they wasted mana on emeritus of conflict instead of a good card
golden plover
True. But it also means you ran emeritus of conflict instead of a good card
steady onyx
true
just play best format pauper
where we dont need to worry about stinky prepare mechanic
tardy echo
True. But it also means you ran emeritus of conflict instead of a good card
I’m playing mono red I’m not worried about good cards
glad peak
It means they used 1 removal spell in your many creatures deck
steady onyx
tardy echo
Anyways prob biggest strike against this card is just the way that mono red is built right now in general
glad peak
[[saruli caretaker]] is still better, no?
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Dryad
Defender
, Tap an untapped creature you control: Add one mana of any color.
"I hold the seed of our new beginning."
0/3
steady onyx
saruli caretaker is so fking good lol
bro just it being a 1 drop defender
is insane
glad peak
Playing cedh yesterday reminded me why Black is so good even if rogshai and Rog thras can do stuff
steady onyx
i love pauper
i wanna go to this tournament
but idk if i can get a ride
gardens is so fucking hard btw
glad peak
1 card win cons after forcing people to use up all interaction is so good
Hard as in cool or as in difficult
Because it’s certainly not one of those things
Hint: I love tithing blade decks
stark skiff
\
tardy echo
zzz
glad peak
The middle pip is bigger than the others
subtle sierra
yeah
tardy echo
Alt art for jp triumph
twilit canyon
sick
tardy echo
Did they give Japanese cards alternative alt arts like that the first time?
I thought they had og arts with jp text and then the jp arts
glad peak
Yep
tardy echo
But this is just a third triumph art
sleek ferry
Tbh, if you grangran t1 bolt emeritus t2, you are putting crazy pressure on your opponent to remove both or pick their poison
subtle sierra
pick their poison doesn't kill either of them
steady onyx
The middle pip is bigger than the others <:icant:1310294700384714813>
its always like this
and it trigers me
tardy echo
Tbh, if you grangran t1 bolt emeritus t2, you are putting crazy pressure on your...
At that point just play the 3 3/2 that deals 2 damage each turn
knotty ferry
Can I use Japanese cards
Or is that not legal
Why the fuck does Japan get exclusive arts
copper pecan
you can use cards in any language as long as it's clear what cards they are
copper pecan
idk
twilit canyon
japan pays a ton for alt arts
we do too tbh but it hits different to give that traditional jp art look
knotty ferry
And they get all the same alt arts we do?
twilit canyon
i have a playset of jp bolts
sleek ferry
Japan gets a lot of exclusive mtg shit considering it’s not a top 5 tcg there
knotty ferry
But they should be in our sets too
twilit canyon
brainstorms
sleek ferry
It doesn’t make sense to me but
tardy echo
The price difference in jp vs en arts is negligible
sleek ferry
What you going to do
tardy echo
Japan gets a lot of exclusive mtg shit considering it’s not a top 5 tcg there
I think that’s why they do it
twilit canyon
they are not terribly expensive compared to others
knotty ferry
Eliminate japan
tardy echo
To try and promote it more
tardy echo
The price difference in jp vs en arts is negligible
Except for specifically JP tutor which iirc is like 3x the price of regular archive tutor
But a couple of the en cards imo look a lot better than the JP ones
sleek ferry
JP mystical archive demonic tutor is top 5 prettiest mtg cards of all time
tardy echo
I liked en pact and time warp a lot more
twilit canyon
there are significantly more expensive bolts that the strixhaven 1 bolts
tardy echo
For ones that stuck in my mind
tardy echo
JP mystical archive demonic tutor is top 5 prettiest mtg cards of all time
Agreed it’s a very nice card to look at
twilit canyon
and apparently, among the notable burn players, im the weird one for preferring the strixhaven bolts
sleek ferry
Another one that stuck out was JP Teferi’s protection
tardy echo
I think the arts are both v good
I liked the JP day of judgment but it didn’t feel like it was doj
The art looks like it was originally supposed to be balance LMFAO
sleek ferry
I haven’t been too blown away by any jp mystical archive so far revealed
tardy echo
I also preferred en minds desire and blue suns
I’m sure there’s more I just can’t remember them all
Archives is another set where I’m pretty sure they secretly added new cards to it
Bc wdym primal command was in that set
tardy echo
I haven’t been too blown away by any jp mystical archive so far revealed
They tried to recreate the tutor magic w vampiric
knotty ferry
FUCK JAPAN
tardy echo
It’s really good but it just doesn’t hit the same
knotty ferry
WE NEED US EXCLUSIVE ARTS
sleek ferry
I also preferred en minds desire and blue suns
En time warp is elite
I have the signed art card
That’s how good it is
tardy echo
I said time warp already sigh
The JP one looks nice but en time warp feels so iconic to the card atp
I think of the archive art before the og
copper pecan
this was the first one of these that they revealed btw
tardy echo
It feels v clear they wanted to recreate the magic
Not that I don’t like it just that it feels less insane the second time they do it
But unlike en demonic I actually really am not a huge fan of the en vampiric
Oh it’s even the same artist as demonic tutor lol
sleek ferry
Yeah I was going to say, it’s the same artist
I think they were just staying on theme
tardy echo
Now do sylvan tutor in the same art style
gg
I hope my goat dominik mayer has more arts this archive
Prob my fav mtg artist
past socket
Honestly has been between them and Magali Villeneuve for me
stark skiff
guess im one of the few that didnt really like the jpn stuff outside a few designs
glad peak
A lot of the Jpn arts are pretty compared to the regular and English ones
I hate how it’s only Jpn text though
Also it being full border art
sleek ferry
Nah the Jp text adds to the aesthetic flair
If demonic tutor was in English, I would genuinely be like ?????
glad peak
tardy echo
Cake on the other hand? Weeb king
I don’t even watch anime
I think as misty said being in jp artstyle it just serves an aesthetic purpose to also be in Japanese
Leads to dissonance otherwise
Though I do wish for accessibility’s sake that they had English printings
sleek ferry
Yes, I just said that my weeb king
tardy echo
Yes, I just said that my weeb king
Never speak to me again mongrel
twilit canyon
Though I do wish for accessibility’s sake that they had English printings
learn japanese simply
sleek ferry
A white person calling a brown person mongrel? That’s racist
tardy echo
Domain expansion teferi time raveler you may now only speak when it’s your turn
twilit canyon
A white person calling a brown person mongrel? That’s racist
let me do it for him then
tardy echo
A white person calling a brown person mongrel? That’s racist
Calling a white person racist is discriminatory against my heritage as someone who was born in a racist and colonial state
sleek ferry
Depends, are you a Red Sox fan?
tardy echo
I don’t cheer for losers
The bruins are the only losing dog I bet on
This art is so hot though
Imagine if it was a card that didn’t make people want to shoot you to death
golden plover
You don't love watching the opponent shuffle 35 times?
tardy echo
Personally I think if it’s that annoying you should just scoop
And/or you already lost anyways so why bother playing it out
twilit canyon
yeah
i tell them show me the combo cards and i'll scoop if i dont have interaction
tardy echo
But even by storm card standards people really fucking hate minds desire lol
twilit canyon
its cus ppl play it out
tardy echo
Well tbf
glad peak
I’ve never met anyone who’s hated mind’s desire
tardy echo
It also lets you sack wins out in states where you shouldn’t
Like if my opponent is storm count 5 but they completely fizzled out and then they minds desire it’s like
Pretty ass feeling idk
And even if that doesn’t happen often at all it’s more of a pain point than you see with tendrils/grapeshot
tardy echo
I’ve never met anyone who’s hated mind’s desire <:nyaruhodo:873056991973634078>
Maybe because you surround yourself with commandys
But minds desire is a v unpopular card lol
Still restricted in vintage
glad peak
My main play group are retired legacy players who only play cube now
Boomers of the boomers
twilit canyon
yeah none of them could hate mind's desire if they wanted to
glad peak
But minds desire is a v unpopular card lol
Minds desire is kind of a card hated by commandys like you
Boomers just say deal with it 
tardy echo
Don’t call me a commandy I don’t even play that format son
Boomers were the ones who bitched ceaselessly enough to get it banned in the first place
Almost 20 years ago at this point
tardy echo
Boomers pretend their game was green as grass in the big 09 when they were complaining more about it then than most people not named Saint Alphonse complain about standard now
Word me @twilit canyon
glad peak
09?
tardy echo
The year of street fighter 4
glad peak
But yep they sure were
tardy echo
I just picked a random year
tardy echo
2009 was 17 years ago
Someone who graduated high school in 09 is almost 40
Boomer enough in my eyes
glad peak
I still remember when people were talking about how trash third strike was