yes
#Magic the Gathering
subtle sierra
the burn is enough 95% of the time
i have a ral and ajani in side if i need it into a heal deck
sleek ferry
I’m assuming 4 stock up and 4 consult the star charts as well
subtle sierra
i'm on lessons from life instead of stock up
i'm trying that out and i like it a lot
sleek ferry
Lessons from life seems fine in 5c
sleek ferry
But stock up being 3 mana is kinda huge, since it’s always that 4th land that gets you
sleek ferry
Ah right, and that’s goated with copernicus
sleek ferry
Are you mulliganing your first 7 everytime if you only see 2 lands?
Or are you letting Jesus take the wheel
subtle sierra
i mull that
if i have 2 lands on the second hand i'll take it cause lol control with 5 cards
i sometimes keep 2 lands if i have consult
sleek ferry
Yeah, I guess that’s what I was trying to get at. I wouldn’t feel too bad going down to 5 if I had 3 lands + stock up or rakshasa’s
subtle sierra
like it's not that the deck doesn't work it's that it doesn't work on arena specifically
i've seen more ppl frustrated about that too online but it's mostly conspiracies
sleek ferry
Tbh, maybe cutting down on consult and running stock up instead is the move
sleek ferry
i've seen more ppl frustrated about that too online but it's mostly conspiracies
It’s the same as the DB conspiracies tbh
subtle sierra
oh i'm a stock up hater ngl
subtle sierra
It’s the same as the DB conspiracies tbh
while true, wotc does smooth your hands in bo1
sleek ferry
Oh yeah for sure, that’s why it’s funny you’re having the opposite problem
subtle sierra
oh i'm having the problem both ways
mana flooding is as common as mana screwing
i think i only have good land drops in like 10% of my games
i'm not exagerating too
i think like 70% of games i lose is cause i lose multiple land drops
still i'm still coping that's confirmation bias, but it's happening that much that i'm beginning to believe
golden plover
I don't like the earthbending deck. What do you mean they've got a 4 mana Hexproof trample 5/4 that can pop my shit on top of all the shit they already had?
subtle sierra
the croc is good
golden plover
Yeah, debating if I just adjust my entire side so I can win this goddamn matchup
Because they got way too many good cards for it now
tardy echo
Genuine question for standard too kid 
Why play stinky white cards when I can play god card requiting hex
tardy echo
Never
subtle sierra
sleek ferry
Genuine question for standard too kid <:CoolSmile:586609049454379029>
On in standard there’s many reasons
tardy echo
I was kidding sigh
sleek ferry
Ajani and Elspeth are GOAT’s (and also the only 2 true playable planeswalkers)
subtle sierra
ral is goated too
sleek ferry
(Kaito isn’t a real planeswalker)
tardy echo
White is in a bit of a weird spot in standard but it’s still strong at what it wants to do
But I mean for rog why would u play jeskai over grixis for colors
I feel black is primarily what enables that deck to win the game so fast
sleek ferry
Ral is cool, but Ral is more of something you side vs specific matchups, Ajani and Elspeth carry games vs every matchup
tardy echo
Idk I think ral is actually a good card to just be playing in main sometimes
Not on the same level as Elspeth ofc but
Elspeth is like an actual goated pw
tardy echo
Crazy how every Elspeth they make is a goat card btw
Stormslayer archangel suns chosen
subtle sierra
they like her
tardy echo
Resplendent was good im pretty sure
subtle sierra
it's like why would they make a bad blue eyes card
tardy echo
She has like a 70% banger ratio
subtle sierra
resplendent needed a tailored deck
tardy echo
it's like why would they make a bad blue eyes card
Do u want me to show u all the bad ones
subtle sierra
shush
sleek ferry
Crazy how every Elspeth they make is a goat card btw
There’s another named planeswalker that has a 90% hit rate btw…
tardy echo
There’s a couple named planeswalkers with 90+% hitrates
But which one were u thinking of
Liliana/Nissa?
tardy echo
I think so
The invasion flip teferi 
But that’s sort of cheating
Also did dominaria teferi see play?
Regardless yes he mogs
I think the sweet spot for high success rate pws are the mid road popularity/popular but not omnipresent in the story
Kiora is another one but it feels like cheating
hidden ermine
Also did dominaria teferi see play?
T5feri? Yeah he was the draw go wincon and pretty insane
subtle sierra
uh no?
sleek ferry
The invasion flip teferi <:icant:1310294700384714813>
That teferi was high key goated, that invasion was just ass
So there was no reason to play it
tardy echo
T5feri? Yeah he was the draw go wincon and pretty insane
The og dominaria one
tardy echo
That teferi was high key goated, that invasion was just ass
Well unfortunately that’s part of evaluating cards
Most invasions had goated flip sides
sleek ferry
Remember the reanimator one we had at fucking uncommon
hidden ermine
The og dominaria one
Uhhh I don't think he had a planeswalker card in the early dominaria sets
tardy echo
i think cake meant him
This card
Was not good as far as I’m aware
Not a starter deck card
hidden ermine
Ah that's a planeswalker deck card
They are effectively starter decks
They never come with good planeswalkers
subtle sierra
i think ovven might be confused cause the set had 2 teferi
hidden ermine
That's also where we got [[Teferi timeless voyager]]
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tardy echo
Gang idk how to tell u he wasn’t printed in any other set
hidden ermine
sleek ferry
Timeless voyager is 100% a starter deck card. I know because I bought that deck
hidden ermine
This was the only way to get this Teferi
subtle sierra
good cause he's ass
hidden ermine
Yeah planeswalker deck cards are lmao
tardy echo
Well it still counts as a whiff
sleek ferry
Which is fine, since they’re entire purpose is for players to be introduced to the planeswalkers mechanic
tardy echo
Anyways pretty sure kiora has no whiffs in paper
They printed an arena one that sucks though I’m pretty sure
sleek ferry
Anyways pretty sure kiora has no whiffs in paper
100% she does
Nvm I lied she doesn’t
subtle sierra
am i crazy or crashing wave sucks tho?
subtle sierra
the +1 is very meh
tardy echo
None of them have aged particularly amazing except for the one that untaps nykthos/cradle
sleek ferry
I was thinking of fucking Kasmina, she sucks
tardy echo
Actually I think they all do tha
subtle sierra
the -1 is fine but she has 2 loyalty
tardy echo
The draw on big spell one
golden plover
Yeah planeswalker deck cards are lmao
Isn't there like a $20 Planeswalker deck Sorin or something?
tardy echo
the -1 is fine but she has 2 loyalty
Decks that play kiora only need to resolve her effects once generally
And that goes for all of them
golden plover
Iirc someone got a really good one one time accidentally
tardy echo
But she was much better when she came out
hidden ermine
Maybe? Idr
tardy echo
I was thinking of fucking Kasmina, she sucks
lol I forgot she existed (so did wotc)
sudden lava
tardy echo
You know who else has like literally a 100% success ratio?
Emperor
Wanderer
Whatever her name is
Ugin is also 3/3 for but one of them was only played in commander I think
Tamiyo is also 100% success ratio I think
subtle sierra
https://youtu.be/Ma2goEOayx0
any leaks?
lusty trench
You know who else has like literally a 100% success ratio?
Tamiyo also isn't a 100% win rate
Field researcher you can also argue because that card does nothing outside of superfriends
subtle sierra
was the second tamiyo made to fuck over lili?
lusty trench
Zero clue
Kiora has crashing wave which is a miss because there is 0 way a 4 mana 2 loyalty planeswalker shouldve ever seen play i dont care
sudden lava
any leaks?
Orzhov Ral
subtle sierra
crazy
sudden lava
Though not a leak, just that's Ral in orzhov aligned school
sleek ferry
Wrenn is also like 2.5/3
Wrenn is 3 for 3, when the hell did outlaws oko ever see play
golden plover
Wrenn is 3 for 3, when the hell did outlaws oko ever see play
Card is a limited bomb and had some fringe standard play
Although calling something in OTJ a limited bomb is kind of a misnomer because there's a shitload of them
And... OTJ limited is dogshit trash ass bad
knotty ferry
sleek ferry
Nice job little spatula
This list is terrible
And they should feel bad for making this list
lusty trench
Wrenn is 3 for 3, when the hell did outlaws oko ever see play
Wrenn and seven saw play?
steady onyx
bro this is so true
like i was running pauper
and absolutely stomped ppl one week
then the other week idfk what i was doing
but @sleek ferry help plz :(
how to play zoe glyph in standard
i think cards insane
sleek ferry
Wrenn and seven saw play?
Yes, It was used. I reached mythic with a deck that played both realmbreaker and wrenn and seven
realmbreaker especially was such an underrated card
knotty ferry
Aside from Cecil and sazh's chocobo are there any other final fantasy cards featured in meta/meta adjacent decks in standard?
Oh I also saw tifa in a green deck
subtle sierra
there's quite a few
the green stuff
almost everything 3+ colors are on starting town (or multiversal passage)
knotty ferry
Oh
True
Thugs told me about a sephiroth deck, I know it's not meta but I'd be willing to try that
subtle sierra
yeah it exists ig
another ff card is ardyn as a reanimator wincon
there are a bunch of things decent there, such as the dark confidant reprint
oh esper origins, fire magic
knotty ferry
Oh is dark confidant like a staple?
subtle sierra
kiiiinda
fallow citrus
maybe if we travel back in time..
subtle sierra
she's somewhat meh rn
knotty ferry
Sorry what I mean is
It's like a card that gets reprinted to be legal in standard throughout rotations
subtle sierra
nah
subtle sierra
they just made her legal while ff is in
subtle sierra
yeah
knotty ferry
Ok yeah
fallow citrus
yeah it's a boomer card
subtle sierra
wtf discord ate my message
knotty ferry
What's fire magic played in typically?
knotty ferry
Oh ok
subtle sierra
mostly control/slower decks play it
aggro tends to do good trades in mirrors or smth
i never play aggro 🤷♂️
honestly if you want a tool to search what card is played where
this shit is amazing
knotty ferry
Oh I saw ultima in a few decks
subtle sierra
ultima is a boardclear with an upside
knotty ferry
honestly if you want a tool to search what card is played where
I was using mtggoldfish
But I'll try this
subtle sierra
fish does the same but i find mtgtop8 a abit more intuitive
even if the ui is a bit retro
knotty ferry
ok sounds good
subtle sierra
it does lag sometimes tho
knotty ferry
im really enjoying magic
fallow citrus
fish seems to be more weighted to online events from what I see
subtle sierra
top8 tracks every online thing too aeri
knotty ferry
early game is lame (but ig its kinda fast since turns take 10 seconds)
and the balance of lands/other cards
is really annoying esp if youre on top deck mode
fallow citrus
top8 tracks every online thing too aeri
yeah ik but I feel like it does more irl events is what I mean
subtle sierra
eh they do more online tbh simply due to the volume
knotty ferry
but im sure very skilled players can play to optimize what they get out of their top decks
but that part can be very annoying
knotty ferry
i guess its kinda true in older ygo
cause like
in current ygo the engines are so smooth that once you're online, you're not reliant at all on what you top deck, even if you're playing a "slower" deck
sleek ferry
Decks that rely on top decks are usually faster decks, which is the trade off
control is almost never going to be there hoping for top decks
knotty ferry
wow i always thought it was the opposite
subtle sierra
or they just topdeck a draw spell and just go +1
knotty ferry
like if you're playing an aggro deck
your cards generate value/pressure so it's on your opponent to top deck
but
knotty ferry
i guess the decks designed to control will have the tools to defend relatively consistently
sleek ferry
like the deck we made you spatula, even if you get to a point where you're relying on top decks, you have kaito to manipulate the top of your library
knotty ferry
i guess +1 isnt the right term
knotty ferry
like the deck we made you spatula, even if you get to a point where you're relyi...
yeah thats true
sleek ferry
and you have enduring curiosity to get you free draws
knotty ferry
it's just getting to kaito that can be annoying
but its probably more consistent than im perceiving it as
ive had it out a few games and im usually fine once it's out
bc like you said you can manipulate your top decks
subtle sierra
remember that before you get to 3 mana you get 2-3 draws
knotty ferry
and draw
knotty ferry
remember that before you get to 3 mana you get 2-3 draws
ye true
sleek ferry
Dream Beavers attack, ninjitsu in kaito, surveil 2, play the dream beavers you just bounced to scry 1, you basically looked at the top 3 cards of your deck for free
knotty ferry
does white color have a theme other than lifelink/gain life in general? sometimes they do token stuff but im wondering if theres anything else
i saw a white flying deck with some card that made all your creatures quick effects
forgot the term already
sleek ferry
token and lifegain are the main things right now, and enchantment also
the enchantment deck is basically an aggro deck
subtle sierra
white is also one of the premium control colors
knotty ferry
token and lifegain are the main things right now, and enchantment also
youre right they did play some enchantments
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knotty ferry
maybe ill try a white deck sometime. when i was introduced to it, it just seemed like a stall deck
subtle sierra
Wow wifi discord just jumped off a cliff
White is also the floodgate color
To an extent
White is just, a lot
They just have the things either more expensive or have negatives
subtle sierra
[[get lost]] this is wanted to call up
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Instant
Destroy target creature, enchantment, or planeswalker. Its controller creates two Map tokens. (They're artifacts with "
, 
, Sacrifice this token: Target creature you control explores. Activate only as a sorcery.")
knotty ferry
oh i drafted this i think?
subtle sierra
Destroy any of those 3 for 2 mana is nuts
But it gives maps
Another rotated thing for example [[fateful absence]]
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Instant
Destroy target creature or planeswalker. Its controller investigates. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with "
, Sacrifice this token: Draw a card.")
Sensing a plot, Sorin raced to his grandfather's resting-crypt. But someone else had gotten there first.
knotty ferry
ah
i see
mtg is like md where if i have 4 copies of a card, i can just use them in any of my decks right? i dont have to pull 4 more?
subtle sierra
No you can use it any way you like
I can use my starting towns in any amount of decks
knotty ferry
sick
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subtle sierra
Anything else has it for more, even if it has upsides
knotty ferry
wdym on mana
subtle sierra
You can expect a boardwipe to be 4 mana
If there was a board clear with no upside for 5, you'd call it bad
knotty ferry
i see
subtle sierra
There's just some effects you'd expect to cost some specific mana
Say draw 1 is for 2 mana generally
And mostly blue
That's why i went "hold up this is crazy" on [[lessons from life]]
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knotty ferry
this card seems good
subtle sierra
Too bad simic doesn't really want it
So it doesn't have a home
And it competes with stock up
[[stock up]]
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subtle sierra
Stock up being cheaper is nuts
Even if it is just 2 cards
Also picking gets you better quality
knotty ferry
this seems isnane
knotty ferry
[[tanufel rimespeaker]]
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knotty ferry
does this count original mana cost or total (like if something is 3 mana but says "cast this by doing x or paying 1 extra mana")
subtle sierra
It uses cmc
So what's printed on the card
Rimespeaker is always mana value 4
Say [[ride's end]] is 5 even if you discount it
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Instant
This spell costs 
less to cast if it targets a tapped permanent.
Exile target creature or Vehicle.
Their race ended much the same way it began, walking through a sandstorm on a world that ended long ago.
subtle sierra
That's why stuff like [[up the beanstalk]] drew off it
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subtle sierra
(it was broken and bean has been banned for a while)
sleek ferry
Bean wasn't even the best deck when it got banned sigh
subtle sierra
Oh idr how X costs work tho
sleek ferry
also, that banlist ruined the format for like 2 months
fallow citrus
x=0 unless stated otherwise
subtle sierra
Sigh i can't spell snare his ass
fallow citrus
only if they pay 0 so like
subtle sierra
So never
fallow citrus
almost never isn't never
sleek ferry
So never
this is common nowadays
especially with landfall running around
I had it done to me today, and I'm on harmonizer
I just bolted his ass before the fabled passage resolved though
nice bird
sleek ferry
Messed around and drafted a rough draft of what a temur artifacts list might look like. There’s other considerations also
Like the affinity cards
And [[donatello gadget master]]
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Legendary Creature — Mutant Ninja Turtle
Sneak 
(You may cast this spell for if you also return an unblocked attacker you control to hand during the declare blockers step. He enters tapped and attacking.)
Whenever Donatello deals combat damage to a player, create a token that's a copy of target artifact you control.
3/2
sleek ferry
Chainsaw for removal
tardy echo
Collector was good in other formats
Completeated sage was good… somewhere I think
But collector was played in nexus turbo decks wherever that was applicable
sleek ferry
Compelated sage was played in a combo deck iirc
golden plover
I cannot fucking win a match today. I updated my board and 2 slots in the main to play better into Mono-G and now I'm not seeing it and losing to dumb shit like Big Golgari, Boros, Lessons, and 5c Elementals
subtle sierra
he doesn't know
golden plover
What the fuck does Vnwxt do for you in Dimir
tardy echo
Compelated sage was played in a combo deck iirc
A couple
And also superfriends plays her on occasion
golden plover
I hate losing to that 5c Elementals deck the most tho because it's like $900 in paper and no one should be playing it rn (it wins against Dimir but loses all reasonable matchups)
subtle sierra
What the fuck does Vnwxt do for you in Dimir
it's was a dedicated draw deck
so uh
idt he knows how this works
i healed for like a 100
and bro keeps drawing
he has no deck, can't kill, can't kill without attacking and will die next turn
oh my he kaito'd the cat
golden plover
There's no Thoracle or Jace in standard so I dunno what he's doing
subtle sierra
i think he played over 60 and drew like 50 cards
golden plover
At some point you've gotta get a win in
subtle sierra
i just healed all the damage
sleek ferry
Tbh, I feel like that 5c elementals deck has a high skill ceiling
For some reason people hate casting the non deceit elementals for their evoke cost
I can already tell what I need to change in this deck, but chrome dome is legit a nuts card
golden plover
I can already tell what I need to change in this deck, but chrome dome is legit ...
This looks very Christmasland. What's Chrome Dome do that's that good?
He kinda just seems like [[Steel Overseer]]
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Artifact Creature — Construct
: Put a +1/+1 counter on each artifact creature you control.
"The world is already run by all manner of machines. One day, they'll remind us of that fact." —Sargis Haz, artificer
1/1
sleek ferry
The copy effect
golden plover
Is that really worth 5 mana?
sleek ferry
100%
golden plover
What are you copying? Feels like it's a very commander effect designed for the big artifacts
sleek ferry
I got to change the deck to play more defensives, but with pyre wood as a finisher it’s just an easy way to win on the spot, or you just copy pinnacle/ravenous/orang for value if you want
And with the way the deck is constructed, pyre wood is always live at the latest t4
knotty ferry
bro
i just got access
to standard ranked
and i just lost to some red deck that just burned me
with this archer card
WTF
and this guy that burned you for 1 every time you drew
glad peak
Welcome to 1v1, it contains an archetype not seen in commander 
sleek ferry
that burn deck is super cute
using the god from ixalan to burn for 4 off needle's draw
knotty ferry
needhelp...
twilit canyon
red deck wins
quiet edge
Looking at a few cards has me come to a conclusion that Red just has the best kinds of creatures (Flavor-wise, can't say anything about playability)
Most creatures just look fun. Especially the Goblins.
subtle sierra
twilit canyon
i dont even need the haste
this deck is dumb i love it
i dont even need food chain to win (but im the greatest fc player on the planet)
...honestly... that may not even be false bc who the fuck else plays food chian
glad peak
i dont even need food chain to win (but im the greatest fc player on the planet)
Oh wait yeah I forgot you worked on ukkima food chain
zinc shard
sudden lava
I wish I could complete in this ngl
golden plover
Don't, statistically these are almost never worth it
Sure you can be good at sealed but even the best sealed can fail to a bad pool
That's what, $50?
By the time you'd play enough to win the box you could've already bought it
trail anvil
nice blood moon
sleek ferry
When’s the next mtg banlist announcement btw, is it early April or early May?
zinc shard
May or June
subtle sierra
ok fuck it the conspiracies are true
idc
aand g3 they heal combo me to death because i had 10 lands
lovely
wotc can go fuck themselves
golden plover
wotc can go fuck themselves
I'm on your side on this one
Kept a 3 lander
Only ever drew lands for the rest of the game
Lost to goddamn Sultai Reanimator because of it
That's not even a deck people should lose to
sleek ferry
I've been losing to the most ridiculous shit today
guy did an infinite combo on me with [[firdoch core]] and [[valley flood called]]
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Kindred Artifact — Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type.)
: Add one mana of any color.
: This artifact becomes a 4/4 artifact creature until end of turn.
As Isilu drifted past in a swirl of shadow and moonlight, the strange, half-buried stones began to wake.
golden plover
I've been losing to the most ridiculous shit today
That was me yesterday
golden plover
guy did an infinite combo on me with [[firdoch core]] and [[valley flood called]...
This is a real deck, showed up a few times in the RCQ. The Azorious build or the Temur one?
The Azorious one is better but unplayable on Arena, they'll time out before they can get their kill
sleek ferry
this was azorius. tbh, I would have won, but since I saw azorius colors, I assumed he was waiting for me to do stuff, so I slow played and once I realized what the combo was, it was too late
used the azorius manland + firdoch core to just generate infinite mana
subtle sierra
yeah the land is a bird it's so funny
sleek ferry
he did, and he won lol
golden plover
What did he win with?
subtle sierra
idt thugs died to mill
sleek ferry
he hit me for lethal
subtle sierra
yeah it does that
golden plover
Their wincon is looping [[Syggz's Command]]
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golden plover
Oh why were they playing the Azorious one then
If they're just gonna beat you to do death, Temur is faster
sleek ferry
guy was being generous too, because I'm pretty sure he could have kept going with 7 cards in hand and 30+ power on the board
golden plover
Yeah that's kinda the trend with the otter decks
Once their combo is online they have it
They can do whatever from there
sleek ferry
I should look to see if there's anything from tmnt worth adding to harmonizer
subtle sierra
not much really
unless you want leatherhead as a second wincon into removal
you can fake out ppl cause you wouldn't side boardwipes into it
and leatherhead says no to targeted removal
sleek ferry
looking more for a body that doubles as card advantage
I was trying out [[possibility technician]] for a bit for that reason
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Creature — Kavu Artificer
Whenever this creature or another Kavu you control enters, exile the top card of your library. For as long as that card remains exiled, you may play it if you control a Kavu.
Warp 
(You may cast this card from your hand for its warp cost. Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step, then you may cast it from exile on a later turn.)
3/3
tardy echo
https://scryfall.com/card/ecl/255/firdoch-core
Is this not just the same as enduring vitality floodcaller
But you can just play less colors for it
golden plover
Is this not just the same as enduring vitality floodcaller
It's both better and worse for that reason yea
I guess you missed when @subtle sierra and I had a long convo about this deck
It's better than the Temur build in that it's more consistent
It's worse in that it's combo takes forever to do
subtle sierra
i still think that azorius will just firdoch punch more than do the combo
but a wincon is a wincon
does it matter at that point
golden plover
Yeah, I think if a more consistent line with firdoch one shot gets discovered, it might pop up as a real deck
Maybe we run something like [[Atomic Microsizer]] to guarantee we connect?
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Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+0.
Whenever equipped creature attacks, choose up to one target creature. That creature can't be blocked this turn and has base power and toughness 1/1 until end of turn.
Equip
When packing for a stealth mission, it's important to fold your dimensions tightly.
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golden plover
That'd do it
subtle sierra
yeah that exists
golden plover
The biggest issue with firdoc beatdown is that they can just block you
But if you've got 4 unblockable firdocs they can't
subtle sierra
if you want multiple unblockables [[waterbender ascension]] is better
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Enchantment
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, put a quest counter on this enchantment. Then if it has four or more quest counters on it, draw a card.
Waterbend : Target creature can't be blocked this turn. (While paying a waterbend cost, you can tap your artifacts and creatures to help. Each one pays for .)
subtle sierra
depends on what you want ig
golden plover
Yeah true. I'm not sure where I'd start in redoing this list
Also damn waterbender has gotta be the worst of the ascension cycle
It doesn't even have an etb
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Land
: Add 
.
, : Target creature can't be blocked this turn.
Rumors quickly spread among thieves about a labyrinth without walls and a prize beyond all measures of worth.
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Enchantment
When this enchantment enters and at the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life and create a Clue token. (It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this token: Draw a card.")
Whenever you attack, put X +1/+1 counters on target attacking creature, where X is the number of permanents you've sacrificed this turn. If X is three or greater, that creature gains lifelink until end of turn.
subtle sierra
it's not really ascension
golden plover
i think [[rogue's passage]] would be the least out of the way
Can't reset it like the other options
subtle sierra
ig
golden plover
it's not really ascension
It's not, but it's clearly the black member of the cycle
subtle sierra
ehhh
golden plover
It's just a little different in wording because there's no other bending types
zinc shard
https://youtu.be/ocfSaEMnp1Q?si=X9Rtg1Ucxj1-gtpz
Damn, the secret's out
twilit canyon
i've been playing it for weeks
subtle sierra
misty is a visionary
zinc shard
Misty got that early access
tardy echo
I was just reminded today of how thankful I am that divining top is banned
sleek ferry
trail anvil
I like how there's just an azorius control list in there without new cards
golden plover
I've been trying the Jeskai thing
It feels crazy when it gets going
But it feels terrible if you can't get online
fallow citrus
I like how there's just an azorius control list in there without new cards
just as nature intended
subtle sierra
well azorius technically got ossification back
so i think you could switch out a few seam rips for it
trail anvil
ossification that doesn't hit planeswalkers 
that kaito is gonna stare you dead in the eyes
subtle sierra
oh yeah it doesn't hit walkers
to be fair you have get lost for that but that's rough
glad peak
Just give it flash
subtle sierra
@golden plover i think just beating them down is enough you don't really need the unblockable stuff unless you really want to replace sleight of hand with enigma
subtle sierra
it's painful to play on arena
the auto tapper doesn't have a clue
you have to tap everything manually
i just lost a game cause i misclicked too
yeah i totally want to animate that core since that will definitely won't lose me the game
deduce should be consult, there should be another command, and i have no side
fallow citrus
fallow citrus
it's painful to play on arena
sounds fun
subtle sierra
it's literally just floodcaller giving infinite mana shenanigans
subtle sierra
youtube please stop suggesting me this
subtle sierra
you know what idt you need sygg's in this
you just do this, and you can play 1 copy into control, that's fine
tardy echo
youtube please stop suggesting me this
K&T is not toxic
Nor is it yaoi holy
The kids have lost the art of bara
trail anvil
what's the sygg's command for?
trail anvil
The kids have lost the art of bara
fax my homosexual! spit your shit indeed!
tardy echo
I saw the edit
subtle sierra
once you have infinite mana you can loop it, 2 stormchasers and get out for infinite draws that target any player
subtle sierra
yeah it is
tardy echo
Surely you just punch them to death instead
subtle sierra
well i do
tardy echo
Why are we trying to nadu this shit on arena
subtle sierra
but it's a second wincon into control for irl
trail anvil
I feel like if you're at infinite mana does that not mean you've stuck a restless anchorage
subtle sierra
it might have summ sickness
trail anvil
or a firdoch core
subtle sierra
you have no haste without red
trail anvil
am I missing something or don't you need at least one of them to be not summoning sick to get infinite mana
artifact or land
subtle sierra
uh no a land's a land
and the artifact is fine to tap as long as you don't animate it
trail anvil
but if it's a bird it's a creature too no? e.g. compare to dryad arbor
oh valley floodcaller doesn't specify creatures whoops
subtle sierra
no wait if you animate the land the turn it enters you can't tap it whoops
that's why earthbending gives the land haste
trail anvil
ye
tardy echo
no wait if you animate the land the turn it enters you can't tap it whoops
Tbf this isnt a super known interaction bc manlands all enter tapped
It was more known back when like mutavault and co were cards that hung around
atomic harness
Thank you little cakethy
tardy echo
Actually I think vault may be the only untapped manland
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Land
: Add .
: This land becomes a 1/1 Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying until end of turn. It's still a land.
, : Target Blinkmoth creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
fallow citrus
[[inkmoth nexus]]
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Land
: Add .
: This land becomes a 1/1 Phyrexian Blinkmoth artifact creature with flying and infect until end of turn. It's still a land. (It deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.)
trail anvil
clearly the next step is a manland with haste
fallow citrus
I still think my favourite text on a land is [[secret tunnel]]
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Land — Cave
This land can't be blocked.
: Add .
, : Two target creatures you control that share a creature type can't be blocked this turn.
"I forget the next couple of lines, but then it goes...'Secret tunnel! Secret tunnel!" —Chong, nomad musician
sleek ferry
steady onyx
b r o
steady onyx
I’ve been getting some good mileage out of temur
i found the sickest deck
then fucking
jeskai blink
modern deck
but in
standard
zinc shard
Draft Token in the store
tardy echo
I’ve been getting some good mileage out of temur
That mikey seems pretty good honestly
Well not like great but the kind of good that robs bo1
Past couple sets have added some super cool cards for battlecrier though
I also saw someone experimenting w the coco in that deck
[[muerra]]
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Legendary Creature — Raccoon Warrior
At the beginning of your first main phase, add or 
for each Raccoon you control.
Whenever you expend 4, you gain 3 life. (You expend 4 as you spend your fourth total mana to cast spells during a turn.)
Whenever you expend 8, exile the top two cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play those cards.
2/4
golden plover
Every once in a while I'll lose to that stupid Esper Sneak Ninjas deck and I don't get how it works. They're playing 37,000 bad one-offs, but I guess they'll occasionally draw the correct combination of bad one-offs
Like what do you mean you're seriously playing [[Leonardo, Leader in Blue]]
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Legendary Creature — Mutant Ninja Turtle
Sneak 
(You may cast this spell for if you also return an unblocked attacker you control to hand during the declare blockers step. He enters tapped and attacking.)
When Leonardo enters, if his sneak cost was paid, creatures you control get +2/+0 until end of turn.
: Leonardo gains first strike until end of turn.
2/1
golden plover
That sneak cost is crazy, but its another one off in the 37 weird ass one-offs they play
I guess I just dunno what to board in because they're toolboxing 100 different cards
sleek ferry
It also triggers itself on sneak + whatever other payoffs you already have, so most of the time this is coming in, swinging for 3 and ending the turn as a 4/3
Mono white life gain is actually even more annoying nowadays
golden plover
I dunno, this esper deck just feels like shit because I can't predict what their toolbox slots are enough
tardy echo
That’s kind of the point of a toolbox deck innit 
golden plover
That and [[Dark Leo and Shredder]]'s effect changes every time I read that card
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Legendary Creature — Mutant Ninja Turtle Human
Sneak 
Attacking Ninjas you control have deathtouch.
Whenever Dark Leo & Shredder deal combat damage to a player, create a 1/1 black Ninja creature token. Then if you control five or more Ninjas, that player loses half their life, rounded up.
1/3
golden plover
What do you mean the tokens aren't tapped?
tardy echo
This card actually fries me it’s so funny
They should’ve printed this in common to annihilate pauper for the rest of eternity
sleek ferry
Surely you play this in Orzhov sac no?
Also surprised its not “other attack ninjas you control”
golden plover
Also surprised its not “other attack ninjas you control”
Yeah that's what trips me up
twilit canyon
is it really surprising they wanted the card to be viable?
golden plover
I either forget it gives itself death touch or I forget the tokens come in untappdd
sleek ferry
is it really surprising they wanted the card to be viable?
Nah, not at all. Just goes against some of their other card design in the latest sets. Though I will say, it makes perfect sense when you consider its a mythic
If it was a rare, it would have def had “other attacking ninjas “
Also why do the rare/mythic Raphael’s feel like they should be switched in rarity
Embercleave Raphael should have been mythic and hurt itself Raphael should have been rare
The hurt itself Raphael would literally never be considered in any 1v1 format
trail anvil
If it was a rare, it would have def had “other attacking ninjas “
I don't really see why?
sleek ferry
I don't really see why?
The main reason would be for draft purposes. But idk if you’ve noticed but mythics have gone from being 99% bulk to us getting good mythics consistently
trail anvil
I feel like a 1/3 deathtouch that generates bodies is fine at rare in draft but idk
sleek ferry
I used to have so many mythic wild cards saved up on arena because no mythic was actually worth crafting for the longest time
trail anvil
idk brawl is a mythic heavy format, but there are definitely more format staples at mythic now lol
golden plover
Mythics have become more pushed staples lately yeah
It's why standard is so expensive now
When every list needs 4 cubs or riddlers that's expensive
twilit canyon
agreed. makes drafting signifcantly nicer when you hit irl too
and arena players spent years complaining how they always had an abundance of mythics
twilit canyon
same
i had to go out of my way to finish a ton of historic and timeless lists and i still have a healthy 20 mythics
sleek ferry
My rare wildcards can’t keep up with the amount of decks I want to play in standard rn though
twilit canyon
and this set just started
im about to climb to 100 or so at end of season
rares im not low on with drafting
sleek ferry
But I should probably already start saving for strixhaven, especially if they’re tempting me with miracle
The fact that tmnt is a smaller set means I’ll probably end up opening up most of the stuff I need anyways
Or pumping my vault numbers for free wildcards
tardy echo
Yeah that’s the yuna deck
It’s fallen off a lot but if you’re just laddering on arena it’s fine
trail anvil
yeah lmao I just saw that
10/10
they did him up hella well too
Can't wait for the after show podcast: "Untapped & Untucked"
fuckin amazing top comment
atomic harness
is it really surprising they wanted the card to be viable?
dark Leo and shredder look really cool
twilit canyon
its a solid card
zinc shard
im not usually interested in drag, but ill give this a chance
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steady onyx
like this card is sweeet
golden plover
God people do not know when to play cards in the mirror. Tell me why my opponent, knowing I had a Kaito in hand, ninjustued in their own kaito, down ticked to tap my drowner, and passed
gritty nest
i built rakdos landfall
why does it work
steady onyx
b/c of this right
uihh
the offspring 1 damage landfall
from bloomburrow thats black
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Token Creature — Lizard Assassin
Landfall — Whenever a land you control enters, this creature deals 1 damage to target opponent.
(This token's mana cost is .)
1/1
gritty nest
but rakdos has none of the good [[azusa]] effects
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gritty nest
[[Azusa, Lost but Singing]]
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honest berry
Behold a monument to stupidity!
Commander: Sanar
Creatures - 1
Magmakin Artilerist
Sorceries - 1
Treasure Hunt
Lands - 97
48 Basic Mountains
48 Basic Islands
1 Stormcarved Coast
glad peak
Correct, commander is a monument to that
honest berry
Correct, commander is a monument to that
You stick to whatever format you tolerate, I’ll stick to commander, and we’ll get along.
glad peak
I never said I wasn’t stupid too lmao
honest berry
Cause I enjoy trying to shotgun the table for 85 on turn 5 and then telling the table to have a nice day when someone counters one of my spells.
sleek ferry
That reminds me, I should get the turtles precon
So I can break it apart for my other decks
knotty ferry
2 questions:
- why does card kingdom list "singles" and "foils" separately? Isn't a card with foil still a single?
- if I can only run 4 of a basic land, once I get 4 copies of every color, I'm set forever right?
trail anvil
you can run as many basic lands as you want in any format
as you can see above there are some cheese decks with many lands
foils are singles but a single isn't necessarily foil, it's just separate if you want to pay more for more bling
knotty ferry
It's just a diff rarity tho
Like it's still a single
Interesting they list it separately
trail anvil
don't think about it too hard
trail anvil
it's just a short way of saying "foil" vs "not foil"
trail anvil
I've been running 4 and 4
tbh there are a lot of times where this is fine anyways
but yeah you can run way more basics
knotty ferry
Do you recommend a certain amount to buy to start?
I'm gonna get every color
Might as well
I probably won't need more than like 8 or so I guess?
knotty ferry
I'm trying to retire with a few mil in the bank, not a cube
trail anvil
tbh you'll naturally collect a decent amount over time
knotty ferry
I'm gonna get the final fantasy 5 foil swamp
trail anvil
but if you want to get a decent amount from the start then yeah 30 of each
trail anvil
there are a lot of places you use basics. tbh you only really need like 4-5 at a time but you need more for monocolor decks or certain formats
subtle sierra
2 questions:
1) why does card kingdom list "singles" and "foils" separately? Isn...
unlike yugioh there isn't a specific rarity for foils; literally any card can be either foil or non foil
thus the distinction
even more important since modern foils suck and are pringles, so it gets to the point where foils are cheaper
Left get lost is foil, right isn't
The foil is pretty much a pringle if i didn't constantly roll it the other way
glad peak
If you retire with a cube then you’ll be much more likely to retire with a mil because you don’t spend money
knotty ferry
Left get lost is foil, right isn't
Both are singles
Anyway ik it's semantics, just weird they separate it
knotty ferry
even more important since modern foils suck and are pringles, so it gets to the ...
Wait wtf?
subtle sierra
I kept this in a trash pile
Like I'd rather play a non foil and not deal with this
golden plover
Love when I get the glitch that doesn't let me sideboard so Jeskai Black gets the only win they've gotten in 15 years
tardy echo
I've been running 4 and 4
you don’t run that many basics in most decks anyways
knotty ferry
Less than 4?
subtle sierra
depends on how many colors you play but it's not uncommon for 3+ color decks to play like 1
and even then you only really play the 1 in case someone demo fields you
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=81570&d=819933&f=ST say this jeskai list plays 2
sleek ferry
I def play around 3 or 4 in 3c myself
sleek ferry
I’ve been considering mistrise lately
subtle sierra
mistrise is the most goated card in the game
sleek ferry
Yeah it’s really good
golden plover
Just played against a bant rhythm player who saw the timer every turn
How? Your deck is just "drop dork, pass"
zinc shard
knotty ferry
HOLY
Ok, just to clarify, you CANNOT chain an instant to a creature spell
as in
cl1 creature spell cl2 shoot the sheriff
bc they dont control it
correct?
twilit canyon
targeting that creature? no
shoot the sheriff needs to target a creature in play
but once its in play, you can respond to it
knotty ferry
rip
trail anvil
if you want to target a spell on the stack it'll state it specifically
like [[ashiok's erasure]]
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trail anvil
magic isn't like yugioh, there isn't a response window at every moment. just when something happens or someone's about to end a phase/step
honest berry
magic isn't like yugioh, there isn't a response window at every moment. just whe...
Magic has more response windows than yugioh, the big difference is a player can hold priority in mtg to cast or activate abilities before passing priority to the next guy. And this can be done in the middle of resolving a stack. every time something resolves, that window opens back up for players to cast and activate stuff.
trail anvil
on a stack, yes. in general, no. in Yugioh you can activate something when any summon resolves which happens a ton in any game
honest berry
You mean enter the battlefield triggers? My dinos have tons of those. And my walls deck too.
sleek ferry
on a stack, yes. in general, no. in Yugioh you can activate something when any s...
I mean you can in mtg too. You don’t hold priority after an etb effect
Main difference is priority in mtg
And that exists because otherwise a good chunk of the card pool would be worthless without prio
Like planeswalkers
stark skiff
@sleek ferry @meager isle @atomic harness 
atomic harness
This guy just gets anything don't worry
sleek ferry
Both those arts are sick at least
@stark skiff imagine not owning the pixel turtles from tmnt
Poor
stark skiff
This guy just gets anything don't worry
stark skiff
<@324752667144355841> imagine not owning the pixel turtles from tmnt
Those are actually sick ngl
I like them more than the fracture foils in that set
sleek ferry
You didn’t hear it from me
But those tmnt collectors literally print money
The special guest sheet is really good
stark skiff
I’m only a fan of the trouble in pairs so I can finally replace mine due to controversy on the original
Plague of Vermin was also long overdue lol
trail anvil
I mean you can in mtg too. You don’t hold priority after an etb effect
I feel like prio is a pretty massive difference idk
they literally put a draw effect on 4c omnath to give it a response window and just made it more broken 
trail anvil
I love luminous broodmoth, it's such a good moth ❤️
atomic harness
Prio is crazy
subtle sierra
this deck is so funny sometimes
steady onyx
I ran more in the draft
spatula playing magic
finally playing the better tcg
lmk when he starts playing riftbound
steady onyx
are you even playing those
bro u play progenitus in legacy as a pitch for force and flash evoke
golden plover
Love when arena has that bug where one of their guys is just not able to be targeted. So cool they just get a hexproof guy because the program functions
Lost a winning game because they just had a land I couldn't target
Oh did I mean lost a game
Meant lost 2 matches to this shit
lusty trench
Chaos vault opens again monday
knotty ferry
Wrestling Brewster you seem to complain a lot about arena have you considered that it might be a skill issue
golden plover
That's quite literally the opposite of a skill issue when the game crashes and makes it impossible to play lol
honest berry
Wrestling Brewster you seem to complain a lot about arena have you considered th...
arena is a mess. some of the issue is skill, some is their coding (let me draw a true random hand and don't try to balance my draws,wotc), and some is whatever their problem is. I don't get near as salty playing real mtg, or master duel. arena is a special salt factory.
knotty ferry
Interesting...
subtle sierra
yeah arena does shit like smoothing hands in bo1
golden plover
Yeah and I really don't get salty about losing lol
But I will if arena chooses I don't draw lands for 35 turns, or bugs like that
subtle sierra
we've also had data collected that says their rng is a few percent off
golden plover
Straight up giving their guy Hexproof because the game decided they're not a target is insane
honest berry
when i was big into arena during the lock downs, it felt like i either rofl stomped my oppoonent, or they were pulling those perfect hand combos you see in mtg shorts where they have 18 mana turn 1.
golden plover
I mean that's not usually as common of a thing in my experience
But like, I definitely feel like maybe 1/4 games is decided by lands being an issue on arena
honest berry
it's all subjective
golden plover
Which is WAY more often than it feels like on paper
honest berry
but that's my percieved experiance.
golden plover
And the countless bugs that can ruin a match also feel bad
Like the one where the game freezes, shows you their timer, but then it'll unfreeze and it was actually your timer
copper pecan
we've also had data collected that says their rng is a few percent off
the data i have seen indicates that this is not true
glad peak
The data I have seen shows that we don’t have enough data
Surely someone would have decompiled an older version of arena, no?
subtle sierra
decompiling arena wouldn't help
the code that would do the calcs is on wotc side
that being said they didn't check or sanitize inputs when buying gems at one time so who tf knows
"decompiling" into default unity assets would get the assets ig
glad peak
for all we know the calcs are all in client side and client side data is then sent to wotc
but yeah trying to see if an rng is rigged through outcomes is never a great idea since very very likely you don't have enough data points even with a couple million data points
knotty ferry
yeah arena does shit like smoothing hands in bo1
Wait what lil
Like it won't give you too many lands
Shit like that?
copper pecan
yes
knotty ferry
Lol that is so troll
copper pecan
it draws you two starting hands and gives you the one with a more statistically likely number of lands
so you won't draw too many or too little in your starting hand
but it only does this with the starting hand and doesn't do it with any of the draws after that
knotty ferry
Lol
That is so lame
If you draw shit tough luck buddy
@sleek ferry mtg arena is for babies, I'm ready to play irl
tardy echo
Idk Bo1 arena is very much not meant to be very competitive
copper pecan
yeah
knotty ferry
Yep I can tell
tardy echo
I wouldn’t be surprised if md had some similar qualities
knotty ferry
This is some goo goo ga ga game
copper pecan
to be clear here they only do this in best of 1, best of 3 doesn't do this
knotty ferry
How do I unlock bo3
copper pecan
is it not unlocked at the start?
tardy echo
Have u unlocked standard ranked yet
knotty ferry
Yes
tardy echo
Well actually there’s just a button
If you go to settings there’s something about skipping tutorial
That’ll unlock everything
And give u all the starting cards
twilit canyon
bo1 is not a serious format but its quick ig
i do actually like bo1 draft on arena
some serious mind games ppl can play on there and land count can end up being very interesting to handle
ie: irl, in a draft event (like an actual competitive event for drafting) you are more often than not incentivized to play 18 lands
but on arena, i've gone as low as 15
fallow citrus
fuuuck the chaos vault is dandan
https://x.com/i/status/2032220967334739998
X
I'm going to lose so much money
knotty ferry
whats this
glad peak
Dandan is a pretty fun format that focuses on the dynamic of single deck and only 1 win condition being relevant
So a common play pattern is stacking the deck in a way that’s disadvantaged for your opponent
A less common play pattern is literally playing none of your islands until you have a critical mass of interaction in hand
More recently both of these have had baked in counterplay
knotty ferry
whats secret lair tho
are they affiliated with magic?
like
officially?
or is it just some fan account
sleek ferry
whats secret lair tho
Wizards releases special treatments of cards (usually 4-5 bundled together) and sells them for $29.99. You don’t have to buy them, but if you like the theme or artist they team up with then you can
twilit canyon
secret lair is wotc official products
knotty ferry
Oh shit
sleek ferry
Sometimes they also release like full decks, but those are more expensive
Like the dandan secret lair will likely be 100+ we would assume
copper pecan
[[dandan]]
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copper pecan
i feel like out of all the landhome cards this is the only one that makes any sense at all
honest berry
I have the omg kitties and deadpool secret lairs
Deadpool had some good staples, as well as a bonus card that could be jeff harmless offering or blacker lotus (which by itself was worth more than the drop).
cats were just cute reprints (and an impulse buy i regret).
vivid hatch
What’s the original one
I’m a dude but I’m an Izzet mage at heart and interviewing for McKinsey
stark skiff
I have the omg kitties and deadpool secret lairs
Deadpool had some good staples,...
? Arahbo alone is like 60 bucks
honest berry
? Arahbo alone is like 60 bucks
despite the current price, at the time of purchase, I didn't need to be spending the $50, and I haven't done anything with cats much since i got it.
sleek ferry
If I was you I would find an excuse to play those tokens in every deck
honest berry
that regal caracal is on my arena sleeves
past socket
I honestly agree on the tokens and just tempted to play Mirri somehow just for how cute she is here
subtle sierra
https://scryfall.com/card/tsb/19/dand%C3%A2n
i just noticed but why is dandan a fish
it's the boat
gritty nest
would anyone mind helping suggest cuts for this? im stumped on what to do, its sort of a "worst of the best" situation im stuck in
glad peak
You likely have way too many lands for a deck whose creatures primarily make mana
gritty nest
its down to 32 lands as of the current version
sudden lava
i just noticed but why is dandan a fish
I forgot
subtle sierra
fuck i'm quitting arena the shuffler does not work there
knotty ferry
This is why we play IRL magic
I can't wait to activate The Quantum Rizzler by warping it for 1 blue
tardy echo
With temur battlecrier it’s 1
vivid hatch
With an inattentive opponent also
knotty ferry
it's 2 blue but sure
Isn't it 1 blue and 1 of any mana
Idk what you call that
[[quantum riddler]]
subtle sierra
i meant 2 mana
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Creature — Sphinx
Flying
When this creature enters, draw a card.
As long as you have one or fewer cards in hand, if you would draw one or more cards, you draw that many cards plus one instead.
Warp
4/6
knotty ferry
u = blue?
subtle sierra
yes
the other colors are what you expect
blue is blue cause it clashes with black, and L and A are kinda used as Land and Artifact by wotc
so blue became U
knotty ferry
Interesting...
tardy echo
U also sorta looks like a water droplet…
subtle sierra
U looks like the math symbol of unification of sets
honest berry
u = blue?
WUBRG = White, Blue, Black, Red, Green
Its why you often hear commanders with 5 colors or when you have to pay all 5 as “Wooberg”
golden plover
Hey the momo fliers decks also gets to play riddler for 1
sleek ferry
This card is solid
sudden lava
token drain go brrrrr
copper pecan
man they're just naming these guys anything now
i like to think that groundchuck is short for groundcharles
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Kindred Artifact — Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type.)
: Add one mana of any color.
: This artifact becomes a 4/4 artifact creature until end of turn.
As Isilu drifted past in a swirl of shadow and moonlight, the strange, half-buried stones began to wake.
sleek ferry
That is all I will say
copper pecan
why?
glad peak
this is the last time we will lose to that deck
sleek ferry
It just enables some disgusting shit for control decks
I’ve even seen some Omni lists on it
Roiling Dragon Storm on 2 > firdoch core on 3, roiling comes back is some disgusting draw power
subtle sierra
I think it's fine
tardy echo
It’s definitely a fucked up card I just don’t think it pushes the envelope for any deck that is itself strong enough to merit a hit
gritty nest
hear me out