Do we know if this is in the set or not
#Magic the Gathering
twilit canyon
affinity
affinity gameplay
emissary is gonna be so fucking good in general but im actually hyped for it in modern
i have some shiny meltdowns that will go up in price
golden plover
Oh good, Man-Wolf is a reskin
So they should be alt arts for the main set
Glad WoTC didn't make that mistake again at least
Can't make out the other two
But man wolf is Huntsmaster of the Fells
glad peak
huh mary jane was iron spider for a bit?
golden plover
Video is all just lip service but this directly confirms it was originally an aftermath set btw
This set's draft is gonna be so fucked then lol
It makes sense, considering this set doesn't have commander decks or anything
But draft being awful for this set is gonna definitely hurt perception
Actually wouldn't be surprised if this is gonna be the worst selling set of 2025. Gonna be as expensive as FF with less cards, less chase cards, no extra products, and a bad draft
twilit canyon
ur forgetting that it wont actually be on arena either
or at least
not the spider-man cards themselves
golden plover
Yeah that too
This set is gonna bomb hard, I can feel it in my bones
They're 0/4 on aftermath attempts
twilit canyon
im sure spider-man ip is gonna carry weight
it'll def be more successful than the other aftermath sets
but it will def be the worst performer this year
golden plover
It'll help, might keep it from being the worst selling set of the year
twilit canyon
especially with how hyped tarkir was and went
and how insane ff was
and how hype eoe is looking to be
golden plover
But it'll definitely underperform and be a huge miss
The arena thing is really a huge nail in the coffin for this set too, since that's where 80% of the standard playerbase plays
twilit canyon
idt its that high anymore
golden plover
It might not be 80% now, but it's still the vast majority
twilit canyon
but its def a good portion that'd be getting in-universe cards that have no connection to spider-man
golden plover
I'm also sure the in-universe cards are all gonna be slush art with little cohesive themes
They explicitly said we won't see them in preview season
And there's no way they commissioned another 180 cards worth of art when they realized the set had to be draftable
Also limited is a big contributing factor to how people remember a set
New Capenna's limited killed the standard view of that plane with how bad it was
sleek ferry
This should easily be Magic’s best year since I started playing, and probably their best year ever, which would make it 3 straight record setting years for them
twilit canyon
i dont doubt it'll lack cohesion
golden plover
I mean, FF alone will make it the best selling year ever
But spiderman looks like it's not gonna be anywhere near that number wise
twilit canyon
remove ff and add in another tarkir + eoe and this year probs was best selling year already or close to
adding ff tilts it too far
sleek ferry
The only thing I’m afraid of, is how do you go up from EoE art wise
glad peak
potentially 
golden plover
Only concern is if they lean too much into tribal in limited again
glad peak
very different artstyle than what we have currently
sleek ferry
Oh yeah, new strixhaven is 2026 too right? That was my other favorite Magic plane
twilit canyon
why
golden plover
But it looks like the Selsenya draft archetype (if you can call it that lol) for spiderman is also tribal
sleek ferry
Wonder if the plane stays 2 colors with the schools or they go a different direction
golden plover
Supposedly it's allied if the leaks are true
glad peak
3c is out of the question
golden plover
Since it's the alternate timeline thing
sleek ferry
Allied would be cool, so that means we get the allied snarl lands ig
golden plover
alternate timeline?
"Leaks" are that it's an alternate timeline strixhaven because of the stuff Jace did in Dragonstorm
We have no clue if that's true or not
glad peak
i'm still trying to figure out how what jace did leads to strix's colors being shifted
golden plover
Something something fucking with the blind eternities
glad peak
at least we'll see allied colors having different identities than what they are from rav
but yeah that seems like an ass storyline
copper pecan
Actually wouldn't be surprised if this is gonna be the worst selling set of 2025...
dude you say this about literally every set
golden plover
Nah, EoE and Tarkir were cool. FF was really well done, even if I still don't love UB into standard
And it was obvious FF was gonna sell well
Spiderman is an aftermath set they tried to tweak last minute and it's gonna have a bad draft and be DoA on arena. That's not a sign of a good set
At least they had more time than AC and could make it draftable?
Although the draft will suffer
sleek ferry
AC was always going to be middling, because let’s be honest, who the hell cares about AC
golden plover
AC isn't even a franchise I feel like has a big fan base anymore ngl
Like 10 years ago, when they did 3 and Black Flag? Yeah
But they keep pumping them out and they're just more of the same and less interest in them now lol
sleek ferry
I have similar reservations about Spider-Man, in that the crossover between mtg and ff players is easily way bigger than mtg and comics lovers
Everybody loves Spider-Man, but do people love the Spider-Man world
golden plover
There's also a lot more stuff from FF to pull from
Sure, there's the whole spider verse, but a lot of those characters have the same general idea
sleek ferry
I think world wise, im way more excited for ATLA than Spider-Man
golden plover
Spiderman and various villains, similar story beats, and similar vibes
sleek ferry
Also just because I think bending has potential to be a really interesting mechanic
golden plover
ATLA has a lot more material to pull from too at least, even if they're only doing original series
Expanding to Korra would've been cool
But there's enough to work with without it
tardy echo
lorwyn will be peak too
Is lorwyn confirmed for a next set?
Do we have the full list confirmed for the year or smth
glad peak
it would've been cooler is the original series was mostly mono colored and korra was mostly dual colored just like how bending evolved
too bad that;s not going to happen
mainly because commander brain
copper pecan
ATLA has a lot more material to pull from too at least, even if they're only doi...
what? spiderman has been going for 60 years. atla is one show. there's no way atla has more material than spiderman
tardy echo
Also wait didn’t they uh do the thing in lorwyn
With the day/night cycle
Has the plane been revisited since then
twilit canyon
Is lorwyn confirmed for a next set?
confirmed soon
golden plover
what? spiderman has been going for 60 years. atla is one show. there's no way at...
Yeah, but a lot of the spiderman stories are very similar and they use the same characters a lot
There's a lot of variety in them, but not the kind you'd want for a card game set
copper pecan
Has the plane been revisited since then
lorwyn hasn't been revisited in like 15 years now
glad peak
we haven't gone back to shadowmoor but there was some glimpses into it from commander and horizons sets iirc
tardy echo
Phyrexia visited it 
I thought there was some thing that happened where they fixed the whole situation between shadowmoor/lorwyn was that not canon
golden plover
We've seen a few lorwyn cards, but we don't know how the plane has functioned now
Shadowmoor was canon
It's just the way it got adjusted was tweaked slightly since
glad peak
they "fixed" the situation by stitching the two realities together or something, right?
tardy echo
Shadowmoor was canon
I don’t mean that
tardy echo
they "fixed" the situation by stitching the two realities together or something,...
Kind of
glad peak
or some weird thing like that
tardy echo
Lorwyn/Shadowmoor basically switched with eachother every so long because of some weird phenomenon
subtle sierra
Who is lorwyn why should i care about them?
tardy echo
But they basically ended the phenomenon and made it so the plane has a regular day night cycle
But I think now it’s basically stuck on lorwyn mode
tardy echo
Who is lorwyn why should i care about them? <:clearly:1247706297491656795>
Extremely old legacy plane
It’s full of elves and shit
glad peak
very racist plane because it's a legacy plane
tardy echo
There’s a few things about it that are extremely unique I’m pretty sure there’s literally 0 humans
glad peak
actually i wonder how they're going to address that 
tardy echo
No planeswalkers either
tardy echo
actually i wonder how they're going to address that <:nyaruhodo:8730569919736340...
They already did
[[invasion of lorwyn]]
Phyrexia was so bad it ended racism
glad peak
lorwyn was where they premiered walkers 
tardy echo
Aren’t they not from lorwyn though
glad peak
no but it's not like bloom where they turn into one of the races though
so you can be human in lorwyn
golden plover
Lorwyn has cool mythology since it pulls from a lot of Gaelic and similar folklore
So not Eldraine stuff, but more actual old Irish stuff
glad peak
invasion only addresses elf racism, not the others
glad peak
now all the elves are unified as racists against others
golden plover
They hate letting us draft one color sets now after all, so surely they'll make elves the golgari draft archetype
tardy echo
Elves in lorwyn were already multi color no?
golden plover
Yeah, but other in the first set, not everything was two color
tardy echo
They were golgari/selesnya depending on which half of the plane it was I think
golden plover
Second set was two color draft tho
tardy echo
Regardless it should be cool
I hope we get an actual mix of the two instead of just a bunch of lorwyn stuff
golden plover
Yeah, same
lusty trench
The last action figure card
And my personal favourites of the reveals
Spin da wheel Spider-man
glad peak
Symbiote is interesting ngl
twilit canyon
this is a solid card
lusty trench
Huge flavour W too
subtle sierra
As an azorius player i hate this
lusty trench
I think this is the first time red has had this effect yeah?
twilit canyon
no
damage cant be prevented is a tried and true red strategy
[[skullcrack]]
oh do u mean spells and abilities can't be countered?
also not new to red but it is generally green
lusty trench
Ye
twilit canyon
seems that scryfall is shitting itself
lusty trench
I think its the first time its in mono red?
These are the only cards with red in them that prevent counters
lusty trench
That makes him better yeah?
twilit canyon
iirc yes then lording uncounterable
like that
that is on red cards
but usually only for themselves
lusty trench
Feel like that card is gonna be big
twilit canyon
coupled with damage prevention negation
yeah
also if theres any other viable spiders in red/x
gonna be great
past socket
RIOT! YES!
past socket
Riot is just one of my favourite keywords
Though tbf it’s because of one of the top 5 the funniest moments I’ve playing EDH so far
glad peak
Probably somewhat cedh playable since he would be a second defense grid but grid is still better
Probably will be playable in non-white combo decks
stark skiff
Ooo Gwen and Green Goblin look neat. The land is also pretty cool
past socket
This new Norm ain’t the same as the old Norm for sure
lusty trench
Goblin looks fun
sudden lava
oh mb ATLA is tomorrow
sleek ferry
You can tell spider punk and the green 2 drop from EoE probably had ToR being legal in mind
sudden lava
so gonna have to wait a whole day for ATLA
trail anvil
hell yeah I can't wait to slot this into brawl decks
miles becoming colorless on camouflaging is sick
waxen timber
How do u tell when a card is legal for which format?
Look at Scryfall
tardy echo
Everything is commander now
Sad!
glad peak
very 
stark skiff
Everything is commander now
Great!
sleek ferry
1 box?
lapis viper
2 boxes
trail anvil
The checklands are alchemy only right
alchemy only ye
in order for them to be in standard they'd have to be printed in a standard legal set
they are gonna be in an alchemy-only set though
trail anvil
(>o_o)>(#)
sudden lava
Just a silly little robot buddy with haste proliferate
tardy echo
alchemy only ye
Extremely unfortunate
But also doesn’t this just mean alchemy mana base gets extremely fucked once eoe rotate
Since the whole reason they did it was because alchemy mana base gets fucked without all the karlov stuff
trail anvil
I mean we have no idea what the mana base is gonna look like at that point lol
I still think temples are completely fine as one of the dual color lands, we had that before during theros beyond death standard iirc
tardy echo
Are those not also rotating out
trail anvil
idk, is eoe lasting more than 5 years? I haven't been keeping track with this new rotation
cause they're in foundations
twilit canyon
But also doesn’t this just mean alchemy mana base gets extremely fucked once eoe...
their mana base is gonna be rough as fuck anyways
even with shocks and checks
twilit canyon
idk, is eoe lasting more than 5 years? I haven't been keeping track with this ne...
no its the normal rotation time
trail anvil
tfw that's considered rough now when shocks and checks were the mana base during GRN/RNA standard 
ig we don't have the full set of shocks though
tardy echo
cause they're in foundations
I actually just thought foundations was way older 
I got foundations and ixalan release dates backwards fsr
twilit canyon
not just an incomplete shockland set
the fact is that in the grn/rna standard, there was just way more fixing and way less 2c/3c decks
mono-red, mono-white were top tier decks
as was izzet phoenix
tardy echo
They also are losing taplands and the burn 1s
trail anvil
sultai was a top tier deck too
tardy echo
More lands than they’re getting
trail anvil
even if exploring was at the center of it
twilit canyon
the only 3c decks in the meta were esper (which was honestly mostly azorus)
and sultai
which was gb + krasis
and fixing
trail anvil
you had [[thought erasure]] and counterspells too
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trail anvil
also growth spiral
twilit canyon
erasure was more of an esper thing
growth spiral yea
tho it was again, overall rather small of a splash and exploring a lot meant u hit the lands
trail anvil
iirc it was in both?
twilit canyon
somewhat
erasure saw play in sultai too of course
but it was often dropped for quality
since that gb/x deck had a ton of good cards to run
for the time
u sb'ed erasure into control thoug
trail anvil
I was also heavily pilled on temur reclamation but that wasn't nearly as top tier of a deck lol
twilit canyon
yea
it was better as simic in bo3 cus of nexus
tho again another deck that goes long and can splash
trail anvil
the only 3c decks in the meta were esper (which was honestly mostly azorus)
ig kinda? but I feel like thought erasure, cast down and kaya's wrath are pretty far into black
twilit canyon
mortify too sometimes
trail anvil
and that yeah
trail anvil
tbh I remember being unable to cast that so many times on curve lol
twilit canyon
yea
mana never really got crazy in that meta
not at all like in some metas we have had
tardy echo
Seeing some old card pools makes me feel very spoiled
trail anvil
I was fine with a 2c meta though, I still think that was one of the healthiest metas I've ever seen
twilit canyon
u just sometimes ran into 1 black source
tardy echo
With what current standard has accessible
trail anvil
ridiculous variety and best deck constantly changing
tardy echo
Crazy
twilit canyon
but it was honestly a big reason ppl just didnt really like
go deep
into it
like arena helped of course
but a lot of ppl bounced off standard into modern/commander bc standard felt like ass to play
trail anvil
[[experimental frenzy]] was fun tho
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Enchantment
You may look at the top card of your library any time.
You may play lands and cast spells from the top of your library.
You can't play lands or cast spells from your hand.
: Destroy this enchantment.
Turns out coffee is the weird aunt of invention.
trail anvil
especially with runaway steam-kin
tardy echo
Oh word
twilit canyon
but we will basically never have poverty removal again
or mid-offs between ass creatures into other ass creatures
speaking of (its not actually that mid)
mono-black aggro is looking to be solid
trail anvil
but we will basically never have poverty removal again
we need to push green creatures even harder
twilit canyon
the 4/1 with ward discard is kinda brutal
trail anvil
GG 4/4 when
tardy echo
I hope they make sultai good again 
twilit canyon
i want sultai to be good but idk if they will do so on purpose
trail anvil
either that or just making ward an evergreen keyword on green creatures at this rate
trail anvil
i want sultai to be good but idk if they will do so on purpose
I'm sure we'll accidentally end up there at some point
tardy echo
Idk if they’ll be giving it more love anytime soon after they just gave it a bunch of stuff in Tarkir
Even if it’s not super good mostly
trail anvil
reprint uro into standard 😉
trail anvil
oh you're completely right
tardy echo
There’s that one sultai guy that seems pretty good
trail anvil
needed to push the sultai support in tarkir a bit harder clearly
tardy echo
[[fangkeepers familiar]]
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twilit canyon
4 mana guy wiht indestruct-
tardy echo
Someone cooked me with this guy one time
tardy echo
4 mana guy wiht indestruct-
That guy also did cook me a little bit
trail anvil
fangkeeper's familiar is such a solid card looking for a home
every time this was played against me in draft I lamented how useful it was
twilit canyon
i remember autumn cooked a non-white list using this + the temur guy
and [[three steps ahead]]
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Instant
Spree (Choose one or more additional costs.)
— Counter target spell.- — Create a token that's a copy of target artifact or creature you control.
— Draw two cards, then discard a card.
She'd planned for every eventuality, with the obvious exception of failure.
trail anvil
the cost reducing one?
twilit canyon
using songcrafter + this + three steps to make a lot of snakes
yea songcrafter
wait no
not the cost reducer
[[songcrafter mage]]
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Creature — Human Bard
Flash
When this creature enters, target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains harmonize until end of turn. Its harmonize cost is equal to its mana cost. (You may cast that card from your graveyard for its harmonize cost. You may tap a creature you control to reduce that cost by 
, where X is its power. Then exile the spell.)
3/2
trail anvil
oh snappy at home
twilit canyon
harmonize maks three steps a single blue to copy
songcrafter copies into itself into itself into itself into snake
trail anvil
well potentially a better one but those pips are way more restrictive
twilit canyon
of course
thats why it was purely a fun list
tho i did give it a shot at some private testing for the pt right after tarkir
proudly went 0-5
trail anvil
I'm still sad I didn't build otters when they were at their most relevant
twilit canyon
but that was vs pros so
tardy echo
Tarkir has so many random weirdo cards
trail anvil
I mean they definitely did some strong identities with their clans
tardy echo
Like plenty of crazy stuff too but like idk I always pull some random ass bullshit
tardy echo
What does new narset do I forget
twilit canyon
she should play well with warp
tardy echo
She’s jeskai right
twilit canyon
ye
trail anvil
in general she seems like she'd slot in well with the prior izzet shell
tardy echo
Surely she’ll be good
twilit canyon
she fits right into the jeskai artifact shell tested
the problem: that deck doesnt really need her
trail anvil
do we have jeskai shocks in eoe or nah
trail anvil
hmmst
tardy echo
I mean she’s kind of tersa adjacent isn’t she
twilit canyon
uhh
yeah actually
the thing is tersa is just
efficient
2r haste immediately draw 2
tardy echo
I mean yeah
twilit canyon
if u can
tho narset has a better payoff
im sure as lists are optimized with artifacts, narset will probably work in there
tardy echo
But narset has the upside of being extremely more mana efficient if u can stick her more than one turn
twilit canyon
again, she plays super well with warp
and emissary is a stupid magic card
theres no way its not gonna do something
tho i imagine narset herself probably wont be part of the optimal list there
much as i'd like her to be
trail anvil
how many other spammable artifacts are there?
trail anvil
I feel like if we still had portable hole it'd go even harder
twilit canyon
the blue one that etb draws and draws on sac
twilit canyon
yeah thats why its 3
either grixis
or jeskai
merits to both
black gets the big affinity car that edicts
white gets a lot of draw
with narset and other sources
there are many turns u can get giga value off emissary on the warp and the 2nd go around
the card is kinda busted as a whole
trail anvil
do we lose any good artifacts on rotation
twilit canyon
not enough super relevant ones
trail anvil
I figure bro's gotta have something
twilit canyon
this testing being done is on the beta test servers post rotation
tardy echo
Idk if any of them outweigh like the blue draw 2 one
Also a lot of the good artifacts are aetherdrift and ixalan no
twilit canyon
also being fr, the sac guy was probably a mistake to print. its kind of critical mass
twilit canyon
Also a lot of the good artifacts are aetherdrift and ixalan no
for the most part
tardy echo
Well idk if u play the ixalan ones in the aggro deck those are more for synthesizer
But idk
Aetherdrift has a lot of the good good ones
trail anvil
oh [[umbral collar zealot]] ?
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trail anvil
jesus fuck why is it 3/2
trail anvil
that's revolting wtf
twilit canyon
like literally
if theres a 2 mana creature
thats a 3/2
wizards wants you to play this card
trail anvil
I remember crokeyz even trying out that squirrel that makes food on etb or death
obviously it didn't stick in the meta but it seemed decently solid
twilit canyon
it helps enable sephiroth outside of white/black
thats how he finds himself taking over the meta
/hj for the most part
idt it'll take over
trail anvil
the more you talk about it though the more grixis artifacts seems real
tardy echo
wizards wants you to play this card
True mosswood is the best card ever
twilit canyon
mogwood goatknight
trail anvil
tezzeret cruel captain angle too?
twilit canyon
tezz may actually be just shy in standard
disgusting piece of shit in other formats
but in standard?
option
probaby not the best thing
tardy echo
I hope the sultai dragon dude becomes broken one day…
trail anvil
we do have an artifact land /hj
tardy echo
He’s so cool
twilit canyon
I hope the sultai dragon dude becomes broken one day…
the delve dude?
tardy echo
Yeah
twilit canyon
yeah i agree
tardy echo
I love delve cards I wish there were more in standard 
Same with cascade
Sickest mechanic ever
tardy echo
Strange that it doesn’t
trail anvil
I think it's on purpose
tardy echo
[[tasigur]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Shaman
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for .)
: Mill two cards, then return a nonland card of an opponent's choice from your graveyard to your hand.
4/5
tardy echo
CRAZY
trail anvil
lmao
tardy echo
Same
trail anvil
he is fruity as hell
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tardy echo
Look at this opp
trail anvil
especially [[glarb, calamity's augur]]
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Legendary Creature — Frog Wizard Noble
Deathtouch
You may look at the top card of your library any time.
You may play lands and cast spells with mana value 4 or greater from the top of your library.
: Surveil 2.
2/4
twilit canyon
another sick card with no home
tardy echo
This can dump esper origins…
twilit canyon
glarb referencing tasigur was crazy btw
trail anvil
fr
trail anvil
tbh there has to be some kind of sultai midrange deck that people aren't tapping into with glarb and the snake there, I refuse to believe otherwise
twilit canyon
its not that ppl arent
its that the deck just lacks something
theres a je ne sais quoi missing still
glarb plays well with the sultai dragons
gritty nest
guys talking about standard?
trail anvil
esper origins needs to be 4 mana to be played off the top of the deck with glarb
twilit canyon
origins is crazy
tardy echo
Glarb can send it
twilit canyon
yeah
glarb can dump it
so thats not a real detriment here
again theres just
something
tardy echo
Origins is a 4/4 for 4 that surveils 2, heals 2, and adds the top card of your deck
At the actual bare minimum
tardy echo
Death begets life Poggers
twilit canyon
an emergent ultimatum
tardy echo
[[hydroid krasis]]
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twilit canyon
krasis would actually go pretty hard
trail anvil
goose mother could never match my goat
trail anvil
lili dreadhorde general to imitate WAR sultai?
tardy echo
As an extension of making sultai good again, can they make simic good (and cool) again
twilit canyon
she is also good but she still doesnt finalize the deck truly
trail anvil
nissa is rotating 😭
tardy echo
Dreadhorde doesn’t rlly win the game
twilit canyon
i think villanous wealth would also do it tbh
tardy echo
She’s like a really good card but
tardy echo
Well I mean like if what the deck is looking for is a way to actually end the game
trail anvil
ugin? lol
twilit canyon
ugin is going to be great but not in sultai
trail anvil
ig not enough colorless cards to take advantage of
twilit canyon
we do have em but
if you are in sultai you wont
without making your deck ass for no reason
trail anvil
ye
tardy echo
nissa is rotating 😭
Vivien is a playable replacement no
twilit canyon
u cast your mazemid tome and your opponent untaps and stocks up
*mazemind
nah actually
it is mazemid
tardy echo
But vivien is a little slow I guess
trail anvil
those are different imo, they both have removal but vivien is an advantage engine whereas nissa makes the bodies directly
trail anvil
god man we have marang river regent too
cosmogoyf is one of the potentially best gb cards but doesn't fit here 😭
tardy echo
those are different imo, they both have removal but vivien is an advantage engin...
I was more thinking just as a utility pw that ends the game
It’s truly unfortunate how the vivien in foundations is like the actual most boring one
trail anvil
nissa can end the game on the turn she drops, especially with shocks in standard again
trail anvil
lowkey vivien is boring in each iteration
tardy echo
Some of them are hype
The one that adds creatures from outside the game
Or the one that does like mini cascade
Or the flash one
trail anvil
well tutor but yeah
tardy echo
A lot of the mono green pws are extremely boring so
trail anvil
idk like I've always liked other planeswalker designs a lot more, even lorewise lol
tardy echo
By comparison giving all your creatures flash is cool
Oh lore wise she’s a total fraud
trail anvil
I'm definitely biased towards WAR nissa ending games just by existing on the battlefield lmao
I think they were huffing glue when they printed her
tardy echo
It’s good just boring
tardy echo
The only mono green pw that I actually like is grist but that feels like cheating
trail anvil
grist commander color identity is gb
tardy echo
Wrenn is like ok
twilit canyon
outside of jace
subtle sierra
mogwood goatknight
twilit canyon
exactly
tardy echo
Kaito doesn’t count
trail anvil
OTJ jace is kinda cool
tardy echo
There’s fraud tamiyo but she’s simic sometimes
subtle sierra
Tamiyo is dead
tardy echo
Teferi is azorius right
subtle sierra
Mostly iirc
tardy echo
Tezz used to be blue…
subtle sierra
But he has blue only cards
trail anvil
teferi's monoblue walker is legitimately the coolest monoblue walker tbh
[[teferi, master of time]]
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trail anvil
I say walker singular but this is just the guy I remember the most
tardy echo
Time pilgrim was a cool card
subtle sierra
There's another mono blue teferi and he sucks
subtle sierra
If he's not in standard he doesn't exit to me
trail anvil
there are 2 other relevant ones and one used to be cedh viable lul
vronos is pretty unique as a superfriends planeswalker
trail anvil
she's an interesting design but an extremely toxic one lmao
twilit canyon
mine is probs jtms
tardy echo
Narset>Compleated Jace>other jace
twilit canyon
jtms > narset > compleated jace > jvp
tardy echo
Is the order I think of when mono blue pws come to mind
That’s not a preference list for reference
Narset can smd
trail anvil
compleated jace has been the first one I think of as the most recent meta relevant one
twilit canyon
im sure otj jace will see a surge eventually
trail anvil
I'm gonna miss siding him in vs domain
twilit canyon
its far from bad
tardy echo
He only has one more year to see a surge
twilit canyon
ah i didnt mean in standard necessarily
eternal formats eat up cards like that given time
tardy echo
Ah
trail anvil
do you think the "can't be cast" restriction hinders him?
twilit canyon
some random card or another will randomly help u cheat him in t2 and it'll be strong
twilit canyon
do you think the "can't be cast" restriction hinders him?
not in standard
play patterns with jace would more or less push u to wait to cast him
the issue in standard is a lack of utility for making things plotted like that
like u can plot a stock up
tardy echo
I hope oko becomes good again…
tardy echo
What does otj Jace even do holy
twilit canyon
+1 loots
tardy echo
[[jace reawakened]]
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twilit canyon
+1 plots
tardy echo
Word
twilit canyon
the -6 is cute
tardy echo
Plot is a cool mechanic but a lot of cards with it are very not cool
Slick shot can die
twilit canyon
u only say that bc u havent dealt 45 damage on turn 3 with one
tardy echo
I say that because someone dealt 45 damage to me on turn 3 with one
I’m just trying to play a fair game sigh
twilit canyon
yeah yeah but have u considered that u can cast a ton of free spells and get a ton of power exponentially for little to no cost or commitment
subtle sierra
Plot is a cool mechanic but a lot of cards with it are very not cool
I fucking hate aven interrupter
Someone used it against me and the card now has a death sentence
twilit canyon
i used: 3 fetchlands, a slick shot, and an underworld breach
you take: 45 damage on turn 3
trail anvil
I love aven interruptor the card is so cool
I'm still sad aloe alchemist didn't make a splash on standard 😦
pillage the bog at least is a nice card and pitiless carnage was used with aftermath analyst iirc
stark skiff
just got done at my pre-release event.
got third with my dimir deck. pretty neat. was a fun draft
rigid scarab
Spider-Punk cEDH viability?
glad peak
Potential is high
copper pecan
had a dream last night where they revealed a 3/3 for 1gg that had a different effect depending on the day of the week
glad peak
Playable card on day 1 of a gp, liability for day 2 
copper pecan
there was a card like this in duel masters. it used a qr code iirc
it wasn't tournament legal
trail anvil
there was a league of legends champion that was going to have different abilities depending on the phase of the moon, reminds me of that
thankfully that wasn't actually implemented
glad peak
Yeah instead he got 10 guns
urban crane
Is it just me that thought icetill explorer would be more expensive?
waxen timber
Shock lands help bring down prices a lot
lapis viper
The kilo precon is super nice
Feels decently powerful out of the box
Esp against other precons
lapis viper
Yeah from what I've seen it's got a very concise game plan
And a lot of stuff to support it
Tekuthal and phyrexian metamorph being in there is nuts too
sudden lava
Less then 2 hours till peak set reveals
glad peak
Yummy?
zinc shard
I told myself I'd stop buying precons, but that Jeskai deck looks fun
lusty trench
No comma after water bend so its tied to the 5 cost somehow?
sleek ferry
It would really suck if bending is literally just control x type of land
last glen
I think that would be templated as Waterbending 5
we've seen airbending already, right?
sudden lava
we've seen airbending already, right?
No we have seen firebending 2
gritty nest
How good are those station lands? The cradle/tolarian/etc
copper pecan
in constructed? bad
gritty nest
Not surprised, the station 12 sounds too slow
Even with something like [[drill too deep]]
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sleek ferry
How good are those station lands? The cradle/tolarian/etc
The artifact/gaea’s cradle have niche homes in cedh
The red one has a home in Magda
The white one probably doesn’t have a home and is the worst one
And the black one doesn’t have a real home
atomic harness
Ms Magda is crazy
glad peak
Indeed she is
atomic harness
the red planet not so much right
Holy I love [[black market Connections]] @sleek ferry
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atomic harness
I used all three effects on the first go 
lapis viper
Y'know out of all the spider man stuff so far the only card that screams fun for edh is spider punk
However there's only like 80 spiders in the game currently and about 78 of them are in green lol
urban crane
I used all three effects on the first go <:dubismile:1221304790387261561>
Full send
sleek ferry
Holy I love [[black market Connections]] <@304354673647812608>
How Jimmy Wong of you
twilit canyon
sigh commander players...
trail anvil
man I want to play with [[sothera the supervoid]] so bad, I need another grave pact in my life
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subtle sierra
https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/181/black-market-connections
Why is that card super annex
stark skiff
Holy I love [[black market Connections]] <@304354673647812608>
Always pay the full 6
trail anvil
annex has a better creature stapled to it and a drain in case you get low
there are upsides to both
atomic harness
Yeah annex is definitely better
stark skiff
I told myself I'd stop buying precons, but that Jeskai deck looks fun
Just got done playing with it and damn it’s really good off the bat.
twilit canyon
market needs either a fast wincon or a sustainable life gain
atomic harness
Word me fuwisty
twilit canyon
it makes black market often niche
trail anvil
if I could run more annex I would
stark skiff
I wanted the Jund one more but the Jeskai was so fun also 
trail anvil
the jund precon looks super fun
zinc shard
Just got done playing with it and damn it’s really good off the bat.
Which commander did you use?
stark skiff
Which commander did you use?
I went with the spaceship just cause I figured a precon would have trouble getting counters for the alt proliferate. Ended up being pretty true lol
zinc shard
lol fair
Jund looks fun but I already have a Lord Windgrace deck from back in the day
stark skiff
Yeah drew Chalice, and some Flying Blue creature that incubates so we were online with the ship pretty easily
Then Alibou for the chef’s kiss
trail anvil
tbh if you have a windgrace deck then I imagine a ton of cards in the new jund deck would fit into it well
the spacecraft commander especially
stark skiff
Jund is crazy out the box. I was teaching my pod of new players on how to play it and the deck pops off.
zinc shard
oh yea, definetely gonna get some singles
trail anvil
and tiller I hope
stark skiff
They went with the insect since they’re new but I know the spaceship is busted
trail anvil
that card is gonna be $25 easy
stark skiff
that card is gonna be $25 easy
You mean the card that’s already 25? lol
atomic harness
You kids liking warp?
stark skiff
You kids liking warp?
I liked it for the prerelease event. Was a nice mechanic. Idk about commander
Though that mono red Kavu that gives everything warp 3 I think seems like a crazy commander
twilit canyon
warp is really good
subtle sierra
Is [[quantum riddler]] any good?
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Creature — Sphinx
Flying
When this creature enters, draw a card.
As long as you have one or fewer cards in hand, if you would draw one or more cards, you draw that many cards plus one instead.
Warp
4/6
subtle sierra
It's like, a sorcery 2 mana draw 1 that later comes back
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atomic harness
Charming Prince HOLY
subtle sierra
At least not prince
twilit canyon
ah in control look away for the most part
subtle sierra
Ig there's parting gust
subtle sierra
Well i think I'm replacing at least deduce with consult the star charts
Ofc there's also starcage
Starcage randomly making guys is funny
twilit canyon
theres a lot of fun cards this set
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twilit canyon
its good yep
subtle sierra
It reminds me of [[portable hole]]
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subtle sierra
Well "reminds" it's the same card but artifact
twilit canyon
control often doesnt love these as 4 ofs they are worth using
uhh ward 4? idk the card off the top i dont think?
atomic harness
hmm weird its like, it enchants something you control (idr if its a land or artifact), nukes a guy until it goes away
And then it says enchanted thing has ward 4
from edgy eternity
trail anvil
[[hardlight containment]]
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Enchantment — Aura
Enchant artifact you control
When this Aura enters, exile target creature an opponent controls until this Aura leaves the battlefield.
Enchanted permanent has ward .
"I have forgotten sleep in their prison." —Korelaa, prison escapee
atomic harness
oh ward 1 lmao
trail anvil
ward 4 would be crazy lol
atomic harness
Yeah that makes way more sense. Ty lol
subtle sierra
Is this why seam rip is an enchantment lol?
trail anvil
idk seam rip is an enchantment because seam rip is an enchantment
subtle sierra
Nah i was joking
subtle sierra
Seam rip is enchantment cause portable hole is an artifact
trail anvil
I feel like I'm sleeping kinda hard on hardlight containment compared to ossification or sheltered by ghosts though
if we had artifact lands in standard maybe I'd be more hyped about it
trail anvil
idk like the 1 drop removal can be really nice, but you can't play it t1 like chained to the rocks and you're probably making a valuable permanent more of a target
subtle sierra
Idr why but i remember portable hole being relevant
So i kinda assumed this would be too?
twilit canyon
yeah we are not struggling for options in regards to 1 mana removal
trail anvil
when do you think we're gonna get birds of paradise but not flying?
just a 1 mana creature that adds one mana of any color by tapping
twilit canyon
a 0/1?
probably never
llanowar elves reprint was a big deal
they would probs just reprint bop
trail anvil
that was standard legal though, you don't think they'd print something like this in a set excluding standard?
ig bop is too iconic though
trail anvil
eventually we're gonna get enough banishing lights with various names that you could build a commander deck out of literally all banishing lights and plains
subtle sierra
That's when they get me into commander...
trail anvil
I'd say you should try out brawl but you've reset your account so many times now
fallow citrus
stark skiff
wow ren rich af
glad peak
Welp stupid debate happened with playgroup
Was just watching so didnt get the full context but basically one player had the fake underworld breach and jeska’s will in grave with commander on the field
First time they play it, both modes, gained a bunch of advantage
One rotation later, they play it again and before they declare modes they bring out dice to show mana and start reaching for their deck when someone uses commandeer
Player A realizes this and starts arguing that player B only gets the exile ability because “they weren’t going to be doing both abilities even with their commander on the field”
I ruled it that player B gets to do both because it was obvious player A was going to do both and what were they going to do, appeal to head judge?
atomic harness
Was just watching so didnt get the full context but basically one player had the...
Oh wdym by fake? 
glad peak
There’s a bloomburrow card that acts like underworld breach but you can only do one spell per turn I think
At least this card had that stipulation
subtle sierra
[[osteomancer adept]]?
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Creature — Squirrel Warlock
Deathtouch
: Until end of turn, you may cast creature spells from your graveyard by foraging in addition to paying their other costs. If you cast a spell this way, that creature enters with a finality counter on it. (To forage, exile three cards from your graveyard or sacrifice a Food. If a creature with a finality counter on it would die, exile it instead.)
2/2
subtle sierra
although this is creature only
past socket
Even a limited Breach is still Breach, I suppose
glad peak
Oh never mind I got the stipulation wrong
They played the first one from hand and the second from grave so I thought it was once
[[festival of embers]]
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Enchantment
During your turn, you may cast instant and sorcery spells from your graveyard by paying 1 life in addition to their other costs.
If a card or token would be put into your graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead.
: Sacrifice this enchantment.
trail anvil
wait by playgroup do you mean like casual gathering or like LGS table
cause trying to shark in a casual pod is peak fucking sweat behavior
glad peak
Very very casual table
Friends who just bought a couple precons level
Well, some upgrades
But still around that level
trail anvil
yeah that's omega sweat
glad peak
I love Vivi pilots who are bad
Oh and they also play ur dragon but refuses to play against anything powerful because “those decks are boring to play against”
trail anvil
glad peak
Coincidentally also the biggest cedh hater but that’s neither here nor there
Needless to say I don’t play with her much anymore
lapis viper
Oh and they also play ur dragon but refuses to play against anything powerful be...
Huh
urban crane
Rich
golden plover
Hmm trying to think of more artifacts and big creatures for [[Tannuk, Steadfast Second]] beyond the obvious
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Legendary Creature — Kavu Pilot
Other creatures you control have haste.
Artifact cards and red creature cards in your hand have warp . (You may cast a card from your hand for its warp cost. Exile that permanent at the beginning of the next end step, then you may cast it from exile on a later turn.)
"We're a few bones short of a skeleton crew, Sami, but we've got plenty of spine."
3/5
golden plover
I've got blightsteel, goldspan, Embercleave, Clive, cavalier of flame, god pharaohs gift, and a couple other big payoffs in there already
stark skiff
I've got blightsteel, goldspan, Embercleave, Clive, cavalier of flame, god phara...
just what ive been working on
probably play some goad cards so youre opponents dont gang up on you lol
depending on your pod you can play Myojin of Infinite Rage to make everyone hate you
golden plover
Definitely
golden plover
https://archidekt.com/decks/14823662/tannuk_steadfast_second
No Embercleave or Conjurer's Closet?
atomic harness
Embercleave for sure
golden plover
1 mana combat trick
stark skiff
1 mana combat trick
Hmm guess I didn’t realize how it worked. So if I attack with Tannuk and a creature I could cast it for the warp cost for 1 red?
golden plover
Hmm guess I didn’t realize how it worked. So if I attack with Tannuk and a creat...
Yup
past socket
Tannuk really does seem like a neat mono-red guy
golden plover
Yeah, imma run one
stark skiff
Yeah, imma run one
more or less what i think im going with
just think it needs more forms of card draw
golden plover
Yeah unfortunately that's rough in mono red
I'm running [[Clive, Ifrit's Dominant]] and [[Cavalier of Flame]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Noble Warrior
When Clive enters, you may discard your hand, then draw cards equal to your devotion to red. (Each in the mana costs of permanents you control counts toward your devotion to red.)
, : Exile Clive, then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery.
5/5
Ifrit, Warden of Inferno
Legendary Enchantment Creature — Saga Demon
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — Lunge — Ifrit fights up to one other target creature.
II, III — Brimstone — Add . If Ifrit has three or more lore counters on it, exile it, then return it to the battlefield (front face up).
"Let the flames burn within you! No... let them burn without!"
9/9
Creature — Elemental Knight
: Creatures you control get +1/+0 and gain haste until end of turn.
When this creature enters, discard any number of cards, then draw that many cards.
When this creature dies, it deals X damage to each opponent and each planeswalker they control, where X is the number of land cards in your graveyard.
6/5
golden plover
just think it needs more forms of card draw
Definitely run Clive
glad peak
Pick 2; 4 player? Ehh
On the bright side you can double packs and do commander very easily I guess
I’m sad we didn’t get Paul and he’s the only one who can partner with Mary Jane
golden plover
Oh they fucked up fucked up then lol
That's the closest MaRo would ever come to saying "Yeah we didn't balance this draft" lmao
atomic harness
Is there any reason pider sunk isn't gruul?
golden plover
Saying a standard set isn't balanced around draft is funky
They really doomed this set lol
copper pecan
That's the closest MaRo would ever come to saying "Yeah we didn't balance this d...
he literally said it was designed for draft in the response
gritty nest
https://archidekt.com/decks/13639736/yshtola_nights_blessed_wip What do you guys think I could cut for Godless Shrine?
golden plover
he literally said it was designed for draft in the response
Yes, but it's not designed for normal draft (because it was an aftermath set)
Most draft is played in 8, not pick two
atomic harness
Yooo yshtola
You have a lot of rly slow lands, can replace one of em
oh we don't have any counterspells? 
copper pecan
Yes, but it's not designed for normal draft (because it was an aftermath set)
pick 2 draft is still draft
gritty nest
You have a lot of rly slow lands, can replace one of em
i wanted to add logic knot and this syncopate but i keep getting told theyre mid
atomic harness
[[logic knot]] [[syncopate]]
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Instant
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for .)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays .
"Such sloppy work. Let's unravel it and try again!"
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays . If that spell is countered this way, exile it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard.
"Your eyes, they burn with resolve . . . beautiful."
atomic harness
Yes they're pretty mid
gritty nest
the X would trigger yshtola
okay ill exile some burnt removal, pay 4 or lose your spell, also take 2 for me casting the counter
i keep forgetting about [[Dovin's veto]]
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atomic harness
since you have some artifacts (and could ideally add more) [[stoic rebuttal]] is cute
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Instant
Metalcraft — This spell costs less to cast if you control three or more artifacts.
Counter target spell.
Obsessed with the pursuit of knowledge above all else, vedalken can appear to be cold and emotionless.
atomic harness
basically og counterspell that triggers Y'sh w metalcraft
glad peak
This basically confirms that draft took a backseat in design and they started this as a commander draft set
atomic harness
Veto is very good yes
gritty nest
never knew about stoic
i need to swap observed stasis tbh
but i like the fact it can shut off any creature
but yeah, i was thinking of cutting either evolving wilds or a plains for the godless shrine
atomic harness
The landbase could use some work yeah
You have the verges at least, that's p good
Sorin walker doesn't look all too great
I like og [[kaito Shizuki]] a lot
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gritty nest
The landbase could use some work yeah
You have the verges at least, that's p goo...
just a verge, bleachbone. I plan to add better lands as a whole
and i added Sorin because hes both reanimation on a stick and gives y'shtola lifelink
subtle sierra
When is edge of eternities legal on arena?
zinc shard
Tomorrow
tardy echo
@twilit canyon been playing a little bit of the oculus deck it’s actually quite fun
I mostly just like resolving winter night stories but it’s a very good vehicle to do so
golden plover
First Printing of Aggressive Mining without his name on it
But... foil is $60 again
@lusty trench looks like that's the trend for chaos vault moving forward
Also, outside of crucible this lair sucks for value and playability
Other lair has good art
Very clearly designed to upgrade the two EoE precons
Value is also only like $15 in cards tho
No clue why this wasn't goblin welder
gritty nest
https://archidekt.com/decks/14847222/5_colorless
would ancient tomb be beneficial here?
glad peak
I know not a deck where ancient tomb would not be beneficial
gritty nest
I was told it would be bad for my equipment focused dogmeat deck because “it uses colored mana”
equipment costs
golden plover
Ancient Tomb is literally always good to have in every deck lol
glad peak
It’s never bad, it’s literally 2 mana for 1 tap
golden plover
You almost never care about that two life loss lol
glad peak
If ancient tomb is bad in dogmeat, then I guess sol ring is a dogshit card in the deck too, right?
gritty nest
Thank God I’m not the only one who thought like this
gritty nest
If ancient tomb is bad in dogmeat, then I guess sol ring is a dogshit card in th...
Yeah because I have to pay mana to cast it
glad peak
Well good thing you don’t have to pay mana for tomb
