and steam installation of arena is low for the actual player count of arena
#Magic the Gathering
twilit canyon
its basically so over btw
Update - In order to help identify the root issue, we will be putting the game into maintenance mode. All players will be disconnected, and MTG Arena will be unavailable at this time.
Jun 10, 2025 - 20:47 UTC
trail anvil
didn't they say it was off of preorders alone or am I misremembering
copper pecan
idk, that sounds legit to me though
tardy echo
Game fixed question mark
twilit canyon
no yes
tardy echo
It is
Wish it wasn’t because my first game back was against dimir poison 
Do not understand how someone can possibly enjoy playing those cards
tardy echo
It’s like this games equivalent of stun
trail anvil
tbh it reminds me more of bandle tree
tardy echo
Bandle tree played proactively
If I had to compare it to an LoR deck it’s the karma shit that sits on 6 counter spells waiting to get to turn 10 without playing any actual cards
trail anvil
hey they're playing proactively too towards their alt wincon 😎
tbh though there's even harder draw go control than this though, but I don't think it's really viable in this ultra red format
twilit canyon
bird up
twilit canyon
we wanted to develop this deck in secret but it was too obvious it was going to be good
tardy echo
Bro holy shit fuck zur
twilit canyon
good starts will actually nut on you too
tardy echo
This deck has been super fun but I’ve just had a very high number of actual nongames
trail anvil
what are you on rn?
tardy echo
Random encounter has also been the most tilting card imaginable
Some elspeth orzhov pile
gritty nest
Well then
trail anvil
Random encounter has also been the most tilting card imaginable
wait where the heck are you encountering that
I guess it's low ranks but even still
sleek ferry
[[random encounter]]
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Sorcery
Shuffle your library, then mill four cards. Put each creature card milled this way onto the battlefield. They gain haste. At the beginning of the next end step, return those creatures to their owner's hand.
Flashback 
(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
tardy echo
wait where the heck are you encountering that
It was 4c zur playing it 
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trail anvil
I guess they were new too
lusty trench
Playing sephiroth in brawl and flipping him turn 4 feels disgusting
twilit canyon
[[breach the multiverse]] is still in standard
random encounter cna be nuttier and funnier
tardy echo
Lockdown has actually been the goat holy
Even against the most random decks it’s been hard carrying
sleek ferry
Fun game
twilit canyon
get that fraud nahiri out of the deck
twilit canyon
3 drop when you dont play in a format with maindeck abrades
very real
also she kinda does fuck and all
tardy echo
Lockdown has been goated against all of these birds,,,
twilit canyon
thats true
tardy echo
It even autowon the mirror
Nobody has good enchant removal let alone for multiple/when you protect it
twilit canyon
we are birding up like it has never birded up before
also should i go full e-girl and get the ishtola avatar and sleeves
this deck is pretty gas
fallow citrus
chocobo deck real?
twilit canyon
quite
i do think it has potential to be hard meta but the kinks need to be ironed out
subtle sierra
Oh he's legendary
twilit canyon
the 3 mana jill?
storm elbow
yea
twilit canyon
can be but the unfortunate part
is that its 3 mana
and [[man o war]] is a bit outdated nowdays
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twilit canyon
even with an "ultimate"
which btw those flip cards are still ultimate so weird cus they are quite good sometimes
but they are honestly as hard to reach as most planeswalker ults
and they dont intuitively go into the decks you'd want them in
like jill
her backside makes a thing u own unblockable but the deck that'd want her is bounce which is 90% flyers
and then she ices lands the oppo controls before coming back
its just weird
the white one that turns to bahamut is a bit more intuitive but 4 mana for a creature like that is just rough
despite the weird designs for some cards, the whole set is quite powerful
so this isnt necessarily a complain just weirdness that may be explained by lore rather than gameplay
twilit canyon
and orzhov versions are on the black dragonstorm enchant to burn out bc they kinda lack raw power
esper has it beat there
so having more power is not bad
subtle sierra
Cute ig
subtle sierra
Yeah ik that part
twilit canyon
yep
subtle sierra
Surveil sounds crazy
twilit canyon
[[corroding dragonstorm]]
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twilit canyon
etb drain 2 surveil 2
twilit canyon
oh if this was 1 mana it'd probably be talked about way more
that'd be an insane rate
twilit canyon
still tho u arent wrong. the one thing i think that may hold orzhov back, is that lockdown is on the chopping block sooner rather than later
and idk if theres as much argument to play the current shell without it
that said, i think it could easily facilitate sephiroth
and a sac engine in bw
subtle sierra
Hmm I'll only believe when i see it, cause i think there's slightly too many moving parts for that
Unless you play some token shell but then it isn't bounce anymore
twilit canyon
[[raise the past]] is what im thinking mostly
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subtle sierra
I think bounce dies with lockdown
twilit canyon
resets on some finality stuff
and sephiroth is a house
etb or attack sack and draw and being blood artist
actually insane card
one of the only times where legendary is an actual restriction cus if u could have 2 in play, the card would probably be pushing it
maybe not an outright ban atp, but close
but we genuinely do have so much going for a deck like this
bloodghasts in standard
we have couple of free sac fodders
and sac enablers
the bounce shell bits can reset finality counters unlocking more options and/or saving sephiroth etbs
may be too much motion and you wouldnt go full bounce
but the shell should be there
twilit canyon
can be for sure. but this would 100% be an engine list
subtle sierra
If you raise the past a bunch of stuff you're already ahead
twilit canyon
which would mean if the card contributes part of the engine, its kind of needed despite how potentially unecessary it can be
i think it'd just be sunpearl and pixie and not as 4 ofs
or could be pure flash to save sephiroth
subtle sierra
As a "if i get to them, i get to them" thing?
subtle sierra
I could see it
twilit canyon
the hound surveils are so strong
its the same theory the roots decks use
where you just use them and fodder to dig through your deck fast
its why roots turns into a deterministic combo kill
subtle sierra
Isn't root kinda bad 
twilit canyon
this would kinda do the same
twilit canyon
Isn't root kinda bad <:cheems:683182129668292685>
not statistically
subtle sierra
Oh ok
twilit canyon
roots has proven itself the problem is that its absurdly hard to play
subtle sierra
I see the memes of "finally it's good"
From time to time
But i never find a list
twilit canyon
most players wont have the patience or the line knowledge to fully play the deck to its potential
if u see jim davis, pro magic player, play the deck, he fucks it up all the time
and its literally his job
subtle sierra
subtle sierra
Do you have a list? I wanna fuck up with it too
twilit canyon
the ppl who have done super well at events with it, have fucked up the lines too
yeah 1 sec
i may have 2 actually
subtle sierra
Yeah no worries I'll try them after work and gym
twilit canyon
About
Name Jesse Piland 10th RC
Deck
5 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Haywire Mite
4 Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler
1 Voldaren Thrillseeker
1 Agatha's Soul Cauldron
3 Snarling Gorehound
4 Rubblebelt Maverick
4 Insidious Roots
3 Osteomancer Adept
4 Cache Grab
1 Curious Forager
4 Overlord of the Balemurk
1 Dredger's Insight
4 Molt Tender
4 Wastewood Verge
Sideboard
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Skyfisher Spider
2 Harvester of Misery
1 Qarsi Revenant
1 Disruptive Stormbrood
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Haywire Mite
2 Cankerbloom
1 The Swarmweaver
1 Dredger's Insight
1 Great Arashin City
this is the 10th place list at the last rc
missed top 8 because
you guesed it
jesse fucked up
missed a line with soul cauldron and cankerbloom to proliferate tyvar and win the game iirc
it'd have net mana that way
subtle sierra
[[jubilant brawler]]
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subtle sierra
Great this isn't mythic
subtle sierra
I try new decks on new accounts so if it has more than 4-5 it's an issue
twilit canyon
7
twilit canyon
let me find the list crokeyz was using. its similar but he opted for craterhoof combos
Deck
2 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Haywire Mite
4 Skyfisher Spider
4 Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler
4 Seed of Hope
1 Coati Scavenger
4 Snarling Gorehound
4 Insidious Roots
4 Underground Mortuary
4 Osteomancer Adept
1 Keen-Eyed Curator
4 Overlord of the Balemurk
4 Molt Tender
4 Wastewood Verge
1 Great Arashin City
Sideboard
2 Haywire Mite
1 The Stone Brain
2 Anoint with Affliction
2 Keen-Eyed Curator
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
1 Nissa, Ascended Animist
1 Glissa Sunslayer
2 Unstoppable Slasher
1 Scavenger Regent
right
this is why i left it on the import
the sideboard was hella cope
its a very arena-brained sb
but thats fine ig
but yea crokeyz opted for hoof finish
core remains similar
twilit canyon
lol
subtle sierra
About
Name Jesse Piland 10th RC
Deck
5 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Llanow...
So uh this list uses tyvar to make all the tokens infinite mana immediately, then you thrillseeker with Agatha's to kill them?
Sounds cool to me
How do you get to Agatha's tho, unless i missed something that gets it back from the gy
Forager is a one of so unless you osteomancer it
Or balemurk ig
Ok it makes more sense now
Craterhoof sounds better as a wincon as he's green and you're not immediately fucked if you draw it, but he's a mythic so fuck him
storm elbow
just got lethal cause someone didnt want to block the ochu with 8 mana open
storm elbow
p decent performance for my first draft ever and my first few magic games after like a 4 year + hiatus
i do wonder whats more worth it, traditional sealed vs just sealed and premier vs traditional draft
golden plover
I saw Orzhov sac mentioned earlier?
Deck is still ass
It might be the ratios I'm on rn, but I just can't get it to click
You're dead to prowess, Mono-Red, and anything that can stop your combo
It's rough
And a lot of stuff randomly mains lockdown
twilit canyon
How do you get to Agatha's tho, unless i missed something that gets it back from...
using hound to manipulate your deck. it has the guy to rebuy it from grave too
at some point u do become deterministic from etbs + surveils
subtle sierra
Honestly i think I'm fine without the combo
(there's 2 more lines of this mtga on mobile can't handle it)
twilit canyon
ya the reason u want the combo available is vs control decks with board wipes
subtle sierra
Hmm true
storm elbow
draft white aggro
opponent casts 4 fire magic
it is what it is
twilit canyon
you know what, thinking about roots, that deck might be fire for sephiroth
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subtle sierra
this lets you use the mana immediately
so you constantly use cards that mill/surveil to fuel other cards that remove from your gy by either adding or exiling
to make more tokens to fuel more cards
then you bonk them
tardy echo
I think you can just punch them to death with your infinite tokens
That’s good enough
Unless ur asking about sephiroth
twilit canyon
theres so many ways to play cards outside of the 2 colors provided given that the most popular wincon is a red card in a golgari deck that makes no red mana normally
though i dont think that roots is fully solved yet anyways
but i wouldnt be surprised if the sac portion is better cus sephiroth is a much more playable card than voldaren
and actually castable unlike hoof
golden plover
I still think Sephiroth isn't there rn in general
I've been trying raise the past Sephiroth all day
He feels great when he flips
But he sucks like 75% of games
And raise the past still feels bad
Maybe there's a better shell with roots
twilit canyon
thats because raise the past sucks
and the bw shell is just not there compared to roots
my big problem with raise the past: it really struggles vs grave hate
roots makes grave hate actively kind of bad
golden plover
I mean, yeah but so does roots
twilit canyon
grave hate making tokens unless its rip is awful
twilit canyon
and the deck being core green means enchantment hate is sussy
golden plover
Vacuum sees play rn because it's the best in field
But if roots got anywhere it'd just lose to one of the other hate pieces
golden plover
If either come down before roots, roots loses
twilit canyon
roots being core green means its also extremely hard to defend vs those 2 cards
golden plover
Also, there's enough incremental enchantment hate and lockdown
I don't know if Roots is there
twilit canyon
the color that removes enchantment hate extremely well will not struggle vs enchantments
the problem with roots isnt power its difficulty
golden plover
I think it's definitely both
golden plover
Also how does Roots function against prowess or mono-red
twilit canyon
in a field that doesnt "favor" it
golden plover
You're dead before you're online
golden plover
Are they? Prowess can get the kill on 4
twilit canyon
in the magical scenario where that happens sure
but its really never getting it
thats not the point of prowess
golden plover
Prowess can pretty frequently get it imo
It's not their main plan if there's enough interaction
twilit canyon
if you are playing prowess to mulligan to a turn 4, you are playing the deck wrong
and maybe thats a reason the deck fails to win anything
golden plover
But there's plenty of ways for prowess to get the kill on 4
If rage/cori get banned I can see roots being a solid t2 deck
twilit canyon
neither will get banned. cori may not even be actually good in standard in the long term.
if theres a reason for rage to go, it'd be cause its annoying
even then, the card is just. whatever.
golden plover
I mean, rage invalidates the whole mechanic of blocking
twilit canyon
banlist takes are so funny when everyone was gunning for up the beanstalk and the card is mia
same with this town
cards are gone from the meta rn
i except rage to go the same way too
twilit canyon
I mean, rage invalidates the whole mechanic of blocking
far from the only thing doing so
tardy echo
Rage is the +3/0 monster token right
tardy echo
Ya
golden plover
I mean, if anything changes in the meta, overlord piles come back
tardy echo
Ppl want that banned?
golden plover
And that'd bring beanstalk back into the light as a problem card
twilit canyon
people are bad at magic
tardy echo
Based
tardy echo
I mean yeah its an annoying card but
golden plover
Nah, even pros like Kibbler and Jim Davis have said rage is probably banworthy
I don't think they're bad at magic
tardy echo
Pros in every card game have bad opinions sometimes idk
twilit canyon
davis has not said the card should be banned
the only card jim is hesitant on is csc
thats it
the card he thinks should be gone is the red leyline but he thinks that card shouldnt have been printed just in general
golden plover
I dunno, I think there's a valid argument for rage to eat a ban
twilit canyon
bc of how awful the play patterns are for that card
glad peak
have kibler and davis really played standard as much as they used to?
golden plover
I'm not 100% on it being banned, but I can see the argument
twilit canyon
have kibler and davis really played standard as much as they used to?
its jim's main format rn
kibler isnt in my pro vicinity though so cant tell u
golden plover
I think a better hit to the mouse power level would be manifold if we need a Mono-Red ban
twilit canyon
if he still plays a lot
golden plover
I do think some form of ban though would be good from this June list
glad peak
i know jim works with wotc on some sets so i trust him but idk if i would trust kibler nowadays
golden plover
Spending 3 whole lists in a row going "guys the new set just came out, we can't ban anything" has been
Not ideal
tardy echo
Format is pretty fine idk
Deck power level seems pretty high compared to the last time I played but idk if that’s because of the format or just general powercreep
golden plover
I mean, the format is mostly fine, but aggro is definitely overtuned imo
And rotation is gonna take away the best answers there
tardy echo
There’s always going to be something that’s overtuned 
tardy echo
There’s no such thing as a magical format where every single playable thing is equally powered
golden plover
Oh for sure
tardy echo
Well technically but it’s only when there’s only one good thing
glad peak
i wonder if ultima is as good as they expected or if they should have lowered the mana cost
golden plover
But none of the aggro problem cards rotate until 2027
glad peak
we really need better wipes
tardy echo
As far as it goes aggro has been plenty playable against for me on multiple diff colors
golden plover
So I figure rotation is a good time to hit something in aggro
golden plover
we really need better wipes
True. Ultima is almost there, but you're not getting to 5 to resolve it against aggro
EoE really does need to give another cheap Boardwipe or we will have an issue
Especially with the good mana base for multicolored decks rotating
tardy echo
I’m gonna admit I want them to ban aggro but that’s also a lot of personal bias because I think aggro is legitimately some of the most non-actual-gameplay in any game where it’s good
twilit canyon
As far as it goes aggro has been plenty playable against for me on multiple diff...
theres an "aggro problem" in so far that theres a lot of playable aggro decks
but the power is reasonable between all of them
golden plover
I don't think aggro is too overbearing rn (although I'd love to see CSC gone)
But I think if they don't ban something, it does become one post-rotation
twilit canyon
definitely not
tardy echo
Do we know what’s in the set before rotation
golden plover
2+c mana bases will be much slower
tardy echo
We should at least give it a sec then lol
twilit canyon
so we dont even have context on the meta for what would be a post-rotation meta
golden plover
And losing lockdown is a concern
tardy echo
The phyrexian sets are rotating right
golden plover
Is rotation not before EoE?
tardy echo
Is anything else
twilit canyon
rotation is on edge of eternity
golden plover
I could have sworn EoE was after rotation
twilit canyon
Is anything else
dominaria and brother's war
thats it
the phyrexian arc + the 2 dominaria sets
golden plover
Hmm, so EoE needs two-color manabases non-aggro decks can play and a lockdown replacement
twilit canyon
yep
tardy echo
At least this means I never have to play against poison deck again 
lusty trench
Sheoldred showing up in masters 2026 to sell boxes
tardy echo
Sheoldred is just going to be in EoE, unexplained
golden plover
I'm still hoping they accidentally put Dualcaster in EoE
tardy echo
Nobody is going to say anything about it, she’ll be vaguely menacing and Elesh Norn won’t kill her this time
twilit canyon
im revving up my speed demons anyways
tardy echo
Also is Jaya perma dead
golden plover
Foundations was the perfect set to accidentally put him in
twilit canyon
jaya is perma dead (fr fr)
tardy echo
I hope she stays that way
lusty trench
I like how everyone is hoping for eldrazi from EoE because we don't believe wizards capable of different overworldly beings
twilit canyon
crazy
lusty trench
Jaya isnt popular enough for a revive
tardy echo
She’s a funny character but fuck those cards
twilit canyon
she's had like 2 cards ever
lusty trench
Legit the most iconic thing to come out of jaya was the live Jimmy reaction
twilit canyon
are we thinking the same jaya
twilit canyon
yea
tardy echo
Mtg would be a better game if red wasn’t in it…
twilit canyon
the balance is needed between "red can do no wrong" and "every red card deserves to die"
lusty trench
tardy echo
No balance is needed, every red card deserves to die
golden plover
Honestly, we do need a second red walker that's not Chandra
tardy echo
Very random question based on a convo I had with wintry
twilit canyon
real bc shes a bum
tardy echo
There’s no storm in standard right now right
glad peak
Mtg would be a better game if green wasn't in it
golden plover
There's Koth but he's only in phyrexia sets
tardy echo
Didnt think so
tardy echo
Mtg would be a better game if green wasn't in it
Sort of based
golden plover
Shouldn't have killed Lukka tbh
tardy echo
Is selesnya wasn’t in the game it would be strictly better
twilit canyon
7 mana 4/4 with haste and flying
tardy echo
Oh speaking of new planeswalkers for colors
glad peak
oh yeah they had a storm card as a joke
tardy echo
Did Nissa die or something who is this vivien individual
twilit canyon
nissa died but shes alive again
tardy echo
Wh
twilit canyon
nissa was compleated even but they reversed it
tardy echo
Brother
lusty trench
Gatewatch are all bums tbh except Liliana but she's busy girlbossing
tardy echo
Back in my day vivien Reid didn’t exist
twilit canyon
now shes following chandra along
tardy echo
This characters a nepo baby
twilit canyon
nissa has no planeswalker spark though
tardy echo
??? They robbed my goat
lusty trench
Nissa deemed to racist for spark
glad peak
let's be honest, we knew no one would really have any consequences when we saw no one big was killed in war of the spark
twilit canyon
did u know she has a bow that was supposed to be able to kill bolas
tardy echo
Does green have any non fraudulent pws
glad peak
Nissa deemed to racist for spark
accurate
tardy echo
did u know she has a bow that was supposed to be able to kill bolas
??????????)?
glad peak
oh yeah vivian's arkbow was that
twilit canyon
did fuck all
glad peak
i completely forgot
tardy echo
Hey guys this is my OC she’s beautiful and cool and in touch with nature, she can kill god and she’s the new green planeswalker
twilit canyon
she didnt even hurt god
glad peak
garruk is the only non fraud
tardy echo
Can’t believe even post death tamiyo is a useless tool that only helps the bad guys
glad peak
he's being a good older brother
tardy echo
That’s actually crazy
twilit canyon
it was her and then loot
tardy echo
Sigh he can have her
twilit canyon
iirc
twilit canyon
jace's whole story at the end with vraska there was that they adopted loot and were going to take care of him and they immediately lose him to valgavoth
probably bc of tamiyo
tardy echo
Fuck tamiyo bro
My headcanon is that she secretly was a bad guy the literal entire time and that was her long con
lusty trench
Jace sipping his "world's best dad" mug watching loot get put into the dangerous situation of the week
Mf leave her with your mum if your doing something dangerous
tardy echo
jace's whole story at the end with vraska there was that they adopted loot and w...
Wait so no loot by the end of aetherdrift then
Did they ever get him back??
twilit canyon
they did
glad peak
jace shouldn't be the dad in out pov, it's garruk
tardy echo
Ok
twilit canyon
they got him back at the end of aetherdrift
glad peak
but they're too much of a coward to show garruk being a good dad
twilit canyon
only bc winter lost him thanks to chandra
tardy echo
Also wait Jace and vraska are in love again question mark
twilit canyon
yea
lusty trench
Ye
tardy echo
Chandra actually goated
twilit canyon
they are just outright partners
lusty trench
Heavily implied snex
twilit canyon
right that happened
tardy echo
I would hope so
If my partner and I murder eachother in a violent technologically induced psychosis and are then resurrected by a divine miracle id hope to have tapped that at least once
lusty trench
Legit jace says "mum I'm with vraska and despite being in that snussy 5 times a day she doesnt get pregante"
lusty trench
Depends how much wizards can market the child
tardy echo
Vraska junior would be the most marketable child ever be for real
lusty trench
See kellan
tardy echo
Vraska is like one of the primo gooner bait characters they have
lusty trench
Kellan really spent like 4 sets trying to find his dad only to find out oko really does just like going out for the milk more than him
subtle sierra
finally got to pull the trigger 
lusty trench
Bro is a competitive champion at waiting at the store for ciggies
tardy echo
Actually is ringleader good
tardy echo
Sigh
copper pecan
sir bearington is a perfectly legitimate warrior 
trail anvil
you should see him when he's leading a cult
twilit canyon
should be great in theory but it hasnt fully come together yet
lusty trench
Is it just me or is there like... a strangly large amount of sephiroth pre release promos being opened
Over two days and 30 boxes opened during my locals, 10 were opened
copper pecan
oh no the r/magicthecirclejerking logo has breached containment 
lusty trench
Yooo my preorder for the ff14 deck is actually being fufilled
fallow citrus
Kind of want to try a commander deck using [[golbez crystal collector]]
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fallow citrus
just looking through the playable commanders and a surveil artifact deck sounds juicy
storm elbow
honestly golbez does seem kinda sick
fallow citrus
other thought was [[wandering minstrel]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Bard
Lands you control enter untapped.
The Minstrel's Ballad — At the beginning of combat on your turn, if you control five or more Towns, create a 2/2 Elemental creature token that's all colors.
: Other creatures you control get +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of Towns you control.
1/3
storm elbow
personally i like the idea of golbez better but idk how good minstrels first effect is in commander
fallow citrus
well all the bad towns enter tapped so you just get to play the game a bit earlier
but yeah golbez is more interesting for sure
storm elbow
i guess its also neat for the cards that put tapped lands onto the battlefield like titan, prishes wanderings or reach the horizon
mayb i just have an affinity for artifacts cause that was like one of the decks i played when i last played magic
sleek ferry
You could play [[noctis]] and play golbez in noctis
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sleek ferry
[[noctis, prince of lucis]]
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golden plover
Why are all the Chocobo decks on [[Sidequest: Raise a Chocobo]] lol
sleek ferry
Wdym. It creates a body that’s also a relevant threat (if you trade with the token that’s bad on you), and turns into another body
golden plover
It's not a bird
It only ever flips when you're ahead
If you wanna be playing a 2 drop that's not a bird, you play [[valley questcaller]]
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golden plover
That's the real card
sleek ferry
You play both
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golden plover
Lifecreed Duo is way better than Sidequest lol
And lifecreed duo isn't even a good card
lusty trench
If you wanna be playing a 2 drop that's not a bird, you play [[valley questcalle...
It makes a bird tho
And that's good
sleek ferry
Lifecreed duo isn’t a relevant threat
golden plover
Neither is the token lol
sleek ferry
You eventually have to trade with the token, or be taking 4 every turn
golden plover
I don't think the token is worth Sidequest
Again, very notably, Sidequest isn't a bird
That matters a lot here
sleek ferry
That’s like extremely nitpicky, when it literally creates 1 bird immediately and another later
golden plover
Your non-bird slots have to be super valuable
It's not a bird in the library
That's what matters
glad peak
Minstrel is good not because of towns but because of the spelunking effect
golden plover
It does tho when you're swinging out and Sidequest is stuck on top and slowing you down
I dunno, I tried with and without Sidequest and Sidequest feels like shit
It's only flipping if you're winning
Otherwise, it's just sitting around and is useless
twilit canyon
you dont flip it
its a 2 mana 2/2
bird
with landfall
thats it
thats why its played
golden plover
Thats so bad tho
It's not a bird where it matters
If it was a kindred enchantment I could see it
But it not being a bird in the library sucks so much
golden plover
I still think you'd rather just play lifecreed lol
Does the same thing and isn't dead if it's on top
golden plover
Neither will the token if they cut down it or trade early
Sure the token has potential to swing for 10, but I don't see it happening 90% of the time
twilit canyon
if they cut down a token, im estatic
golden plover
I wish there was literally any other playable 2 mana bird but Lifecreed fits the curve the best
twilit canyon
it doesnt
golden plover
Well ambrosia is there too for protection but she's legendary
twilit canyon
your curve should never be 1 -> 2 -> 3 in most scenarios anyways
ambrosia is similarly not great in the deck
twilit canyon
yeah that resets your 2nd and 3rd best cards to 0/1s
card just isnt as playable in the bird list
golden plover
You're not resetting the 1 drop
You're saving a traveling Chocobo or Choco or whatever
twilit canyon
then what are you protecting? the 3 drop? thats a 5 mana play
choco is 4
thats way too much for cards that get advantage off the top
or draw cards
golden plover
I guess you could try Plumecreed Escort, but I don't think it's worth it
twilit canyon
its super unnecessary
none of those cards are worth it at all
theres a reason the bird lists are kind of already solved. the deck builds itself
other additions only water it down
golden plover
I dunno, I'm seeing a lot of shitty lists and they haven't even settled in a color yet
CGB was in Simic, Crokeyz is in selsenya
There's a lot of 3 color builds too
twilit canyon
3c is correct
cgb is a bo1 player unfortunately his opinions and deckbuilding dont count
and crokeyz is a coper
golden plover
There's also a Gruul/Naya build I've seen a bit of that seems decent
twilit canyon
they are also pretty cope
golden plover
Slickshot is unfortunately kinda the best 2 drop
twilit canyon
if you can enable it (this deck doesnt)
golden plover
Wish [[Shrike Force]] was a 2 drop 1/2 ngl
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twilit canyon
also not really able to be enabled
golden plover
I mean, with a couple of the lord out that could get big fast
I just think the 2 drop slot is the weakest link
twilit canyon
yeah so stop playing it
t1 baby -> t2 mockingbird/2nd baby -> landfall
t3 landfall 2 drop
t4 traveling -> land from top
get your immediate value
theres no real reason to play the 2 drops
outside from needing them to fill the curve
and the chocobo sidequest is the best for the synergy available
golden plover
I mean, Questcaller is insane in this deck
golden plover
If I'm gonna have something that can't hit off the 3 drop, I'd rather it be the one that actually does anything
Maybe the move is to just run more interaction in the 2 slot?
4 get lost, 2 mained Dazzling Denial?
twilit canyon
get lost is garbage though. its only necessary but it isnt good
sleek ferry
Yuna reanimator is such a cute deck
tardy echo
Yuna reanimator is such a cute deck
No u
stark skiff
(Im assuming all these ppl are evil)
racism
zinc shard
"Rare"
trail anvil
What’s your favourite race
formula 1
sudden lava
this just won me the game tonight
32 time counters amongst my permanents, and 11th doctor made two things unblockable 🙂
subtle sierra
Discord friend leak
zinc shard
oh thank you, usually that's hidden
broken fjord
Played Absolute Virtue and Zenos yesterday. Virtue is kind of an asshole if you've got protection lined up.
vivid hatch
I bought an extremely expensive shiny card
Russian lorwyn foil Chandra
40x language multiplier
storm elbow
just got 7 wins with this in sealed, i fucking love ardyn
hidden ermine
Based
storm elbow
sidenote: i did not realise how fucking cracked ambrosia whiteheart was gonna be
the the highlight of these games was probably
ardyn >steal their hydaelyn >they remove ardyn >flip hydaelyn >they concede
lusty trench
Do yall think cloud astro Sphere is a thing or too cute compared to just putting the Sphere in cori
golden plover
Why'd they have to give Overlord piles Yuna? I keep seeing that shit now that they gave them a new toy
She's like good for the deck, but it's more tedious than anything lol
lusty trench
Woe, overlord upon ye
golden plover
There's no quick match against overlord piles
Always takes like 20 minutes even when they're losing
sleek ferry
Why'd they have to give Overlord piles Yuna? I keep seeing that shit now that th...
it's better Zur imo
Especially if you build it abzan
Esper Origins is cracked
copper pecan
https://x.com/saffronolive/status/1933469948745322626?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhi...
whatever you do, don't look up the german name of [[athreos, god of passage]]
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sudden lava
https://x.com/saffronolive/status/1933469948745322626?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhi...
They must do battle in the arena
lapis viper
@twilit canyon I got my deck
Happened to be at work while our vendor was restocking
Unfortunately have to wait to grab packs so hopefully there'll be some left in an hour
lapis viper
Yeah my buddy spoke with a dude who was camping out for it and he said he was getting it for his wife who loves final fantasy
sudden lava
collector booster sample pulls were a full art Eye of Nidhogg and and full art Siegfried, Famed Swordsman
sleek ferry
Is that a fucking surge foil aerith???
You casually pulled a $60 card
And Sephiroth himself is like $30ish
sudden lava
Siegried Famed Swordsman is actually kinda a cool card 👀
lapis viper
You casually pulled a $60 card
Pog
lusty trench
People passed me 3 aerith rescue mission and 4 slash of light
Got a mf snow in here too
storm elbow
moogles valour
lusty trench
We love tokens, do not mention fire magic in my presence
I will cry
(No one side boards it against me I'm very confused
lusty trench
Its one of those cards that just kinda okay most matchups so people forget they have it
So people just haven't sideboarded it against me
Legit I asked my opponent after the match why they didn't side it if they had it and they looked at me like I had given them a divine revolation
tardy echo
[[fire magic]]
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Instant
Tiered (Choose one additional cost.)
• Fire — 
— Fire Magic deals 1 damage to each creature.
• Fira — 
— Fire Magic deals 2 damage to each creature.
• Firaga — 
— Fire Magic deals 3 damage to each creature.
tardy echo
Wao…
merry owl
Micro center apparently stocks mtg
lapis viper
And Sephiroth himself is like $30ish
Oh damn seriously?
lapis viper
What the fuck lol
lapis viper
Couldn't you just like give him trample
glad peak
You sure can
past socket
Who need trample when one can y e e t
glad peak
You can do either
It’s a really bad card that you can do funny things with
Including making a perfectly normal lantern control deck with it as a win condition because it can attack under ensnaring bridge
past socket
I am keenly aware of Jumbo Cactaur being a colossal meme at best
Figuratively and literally even
lapis viper
Yeah I mean it seems memey
trail anvil
it's mostly overkill but not as bad as a 10,000 atk card in yugioh probably
definitely not optimal but if I lost to it in a standard game I wouldn't be surprised
sudden lava
What the fuck lol
The woodblock art of the meme needle cacti!
storm elbow
definitely not optimal but if I lost to it in a standard game I wouldn't be surp...
Suprisingly good in limited too, even if its mostly worse than other cards round that mana value
sudden lava
Overkill has a combo that lets it overkill someone
large number go brrrr
(Combo explanation: Have whatever disposable creature enter your control. With Jaws trigger on the stack, activate Overkill targeting that creature. Resolving the stack it will deal at most 9998 damage if the creature is a 0/1)
glad peak
Suprisingly good in limited too, even if its mostly worse than other cards round...
ff limited is so slow that it's actually somewhat playable, the removal in this set is so bad lmao
storm elbow
Removal has felt very playable in the games ive done ngl
sudden lava
Could get higher with stuff like lightning ball with higher power and low toughness, but like still the big damage
storm elbow
But then again ive only played limited so i have no point of comparison lol
glad peak
most of the unconditional removal is in the 5 mana slot which is completely atrocious
some of the weaker ones that don't hurt the bombs in this set are much cheaper and there's also overkill which is very good at 3 mana but 3 mana is normally not a great cost because it's almost always a turn skip for you
vayne's treachery is good but also coincidentally can't hit some of the best bombs (and not best bombs) in this set
storm elbow
Idk the only real problems ive had with removing things so far were that i lack boardwipes
storm elbow
Flavourtext
storm elbow
Doesnt mean anything for mtg but ff15 nerds appreachiate it
lapis viper
Yeah I never ended up playing 14
Hard to recommend mmos you have to pay for when I played guild wars 2 for like 11 years
storm elbow
Youll find that alot of things in this set have like a cursive text thing, thats mostly just for lore
Like for example the tiered spells
[[Thunder magic]]
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Instant
Tiered (Choose one additional cost.)
• Thunder — — Thunder Magic deals 2 damage to target creature.
• Thundara — — Thunder Magic deals 4 damage to target creature.
• Thundaga — — Thunder Magic deals 8 damage to target creature.
lapis viper
I see. I also saw a saga creature I think
storm elbow
Yeah those are a new thing
lapis viper
It didn't have the sacrifice text on it, but I'm assuming you still do since it's a saga
storm elbow
Yea
lapis viper
Pretty neat
storm elbow
Its a great way to implement summons i think
lapis viper
Ye I like it
I feel I'll definitely be upgrading this deck
Idk if I should throw sephiroth in here since I pulled it
glad peak
what deck are you building? sephiroth is kind of niche and you're going to need a deck that can really abuse him to be useful
lapis viper
I bought the Yshtola precon
glad peak
i wouldn't suggest it
the commander wants big stuff or ways to deal 4, sephiroth wants small things to sac in general
stark skiff
I hope Thugspai and Renpai are proud of me @sleek ferry @atomic harness
sudden lava
I understand equipping for 3, but what is hagneia
the dagger like weapons in the art are Hagneia
Like how the dragoon's lance is a Gae Bolg
sleek ferry
I hope Thugspai and Renpai are proud of me <@304354673647812608> <@2403105779251...
Ren def is, he wants that deck
atomic harness
I hope Thugspai and Renpai are proud of me <@304354673647812608> <@2403105779251...
My favorite too holy
stark skiff
Wait til you see the collector box price
tardy echo
What the fuck lol
Got memed by this on accident because I tapped under 2
past socket
Defo wanna mess with some of the FIN Vehicles for sure with this Vehicle deck I’m building around Mishra, Eminent One
lusty trench
Huh the scions and spell craft deck i got has an error
It has sahagin instead of sages nautilus
lusty trench
Ah apparently that's a known thing
past socket
Also proud to say that I managed to win a game with Mechanized Production
golden plover
A friend of mine just got a different bonus card
Looks like there's a super rare cycle that's not been reported yet
I'd assume all of the MH2 elementals are options then
stark skiff
I'd assume all of the MH2 elementals are options then
they announced the elementals
stark skiff
golden plover
Ahh so it is the whole cycle yeah
stark skiff
yea woulda been a bigger deal back then but they all tanked now lol
golden plover
Well all the good ones are banned everywhere
Solitude is playable
The green one is niche playable
The blue one is BAD
glad peak
Unfortunate furry is banned in modern
golden plover
Yeah the good ones are banned
glad peak
The blue one is pretty good
Only a 1-2 of in general but not bad
The green one enables some sick combo decks
copper pecan
the blue one is good in brawl
sleek ferry
Plat actually has the worst players ever
Because wtf are these 2 decks I’m vsing
Literally 0 tempo, 0 agency
twilit canyon
i feel this way about all ranks nowdays
sleek ferry
i feel this way about all ranks nowdays
How do you feel about the PT viability of the new decks? Idt birds is real at the top level for example
twilit canyon
i think birds has a chance but thats how i feel about the others too
sleek ferry
I really like Abzan Yuna, also green finally feels like a real color that’s not just beanstalk again
glad peak
Birds have teeth?
golden plover
New card cycle idea: Leylines that reference iconic cards in their color. So the green one is Leyline of Naturalization (Green nontoken creatures you control have: "Sacc: Destroy an artifact or enchantment"
Following this logic the black one is Leyline of Chains of Mephistopheles
And the red one is Leyline of the Moon
glad peak
Leyline of the moon is diabolical
trail anvil
watching a 5c player fetch a land specifically for mana drain then using subtlety on what they cast with their mana drain mana into a rope out is fuckin hilarious
why are you running mana drain in 5c niv
twilit canyon
cus commander players are stupid
lapis viper
My local shop does Commander night on Mondays
Gonna try it out
Apparently vivi is a really popular commander rn
glad peak
Turns out drawing 3 per spell on a creature that makes mana is good
lapis viper
Yeah that sounds pretty good
glad peak
It’s also one of the most obvious powerful commanders in the set
lapis viper
I saw a list using sin that looked kinda cool
glad peak
Will it stick? Probably not, most izzet decks don’t stick in either cedh or casual
Casual because it’s just long turn after long turn and cedh because it’s not good enough
lapis viper
I also saw a chocobo rush using [[Choco, seeker of paradise]]
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twilit canyon
im mostly joking. give it a try and see if you like it
lapis viper
it is a popular format but its sad to see a friend play c*mmander
Dw this is the training arc that makes me realize brawl is better or some shit
lapis viper
Kekw
lapis viper
Honestly my mtg experience has been incredibly limited
twilit canyon
though legacy is prohibitively expensive
lapis viper
I watched a game at locals once while in-between rounds for ygo and they were playing modern eldrazi tron
Shit looked crazy
twilit canyon
theres a lot of cool decks in modern
lapis viper
And then I saw some karn that like could pull a card from outside of the game
Which sounds gimmicky but also pretty cool
trail anvil
I saw a list using sin that looked kinda cool
sin is insanely fun as a commander
with a lands strategy, you just mill most of your deck then get a million triggers lol
I'm so happy he turned out to be just as fun as I thought he'd be during previews
trail anvil
Dw this is the training arc that makes me realize brawl is better or some shit
also seconding this tbh, brawl is worse but I still play it cause I need to cook
trail anvil
And he's really cheap too
sin is cheap, I think a lot of his synergy cards might not be
lapis viper
sin is cheap, I think a lot of his synergy cards might not be
Yeah I can imagine, doesn't commander not have a rotation?
So like everything is legal aside from banned stuff
trail anvil
yeah no rotation lol
glad peak
Which sounds gimmicky but also pretty cool
Nope, very powerful ability
Got a card banned for being able to do that + its passive
trail anvil
yeah you could shut down an entire board with [[mycosinth lattice]] as well as tutor any number of tools from your sideboard
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lapis viper
Btw commander for training is the opposite of where you want to start
That was a joke
glad peak
At the end of the day, cube is the best and cube is the endpoint 
lapis viper
I've played standard and stuff a long while ago with a few friends but I think I just want a casual card game I can play and not want to rip my hair out
I played ghalta ramp back then
glad peak
Cube has the best gameplay and it’s really casual
twilit canyon
cubes are peak
glad peak
Don’t sacrifice gameplay just because it’s easier to get into 
twilit canyon
100 ornithopters may be one of the best magic experiences
trail anvil
see now ghalta as a commander is straightforward and dirt cheap unless you wanna dip your toe into some pricey staples
lapis viper
I got the ysholta precon but I'll venture out eventually I'm sure
glad peak
Commander cube, even, is good
trail anvil
I hope you spent less than $200 on it at least
trail anvil
oh shit you got it on the low low
lapis viper
And a couple packs of stuff
The one thing I have a hard time with is just knowing what random cards are expensive lol
Like I pulled the starting town rare or whatever that's $20 and didn't know until I saw it on an article about the cards from the set
trail anvil
the easiest way if you don't wanna look card-by-card is to go on scryfall, search "set:fin" and then order by price:usd
if you want to include styles
the number to match is in the bottom left
lapis viper
Ah yeah that's a good tip
trail anvil
also if you want to sort it by base price without any styles you can do "unique:cards"
scryfall is a great resource for finding stuff tbh
lapis viper
I played a deck with [[goblin chainwhirler]] and stuff like [[fanatical firebrand]] back then as well
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Creature — Goblin Pirate
Haste (This creature can attack and 
as soon as it comes under your control.)
, Sacrifice this creature: It deals 1 damage to any target.
"The Brazen Coalition is a firecannon pointed at our enemies. Goblins like him are the spark to its powder." —Admiral Beckett Brass
1/1
lapis viper
And that was pretty fun, so idk if there's any commanders that would fit that style
Though I assume burn is frowned upon in multiplayer settings lol
glad peak
aggro in general is dead in commander
and you're not allowed to play control or most things that win
well, aggro technically exists but with the 4 player aspect of it you have to play stax pieces after you build your board
lapis viper
Interesting
glad peak
the only really playable burn decks are infinite combo decks
lapis viper
Yeah that ain't fun
glad peak
eh depends
the fun isn't in the win condition but getting to it tbh
counterspell wars with draw power is peak
but sometimes i play toralf because i like making 1 person at tables mad by taking them out early
lapis viper
Lol
trail anvil
lots of things depend on your playgroup but there are some interesting ways to get through burn
toralf is a fun way to potentially just kill players off a lightning bolt that ricochets and wipes the entire board
lapis viper
[[toralf]]
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lapis viper
Understandable
glad peak
[[toralf, god]]
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Legendary Creature — God
Trample
Whenever a creature or planeswalker an opponent controls is dealt excess noncombat damage, Toralf deals damage equal to the excess to any target other than that permanent.
5/4
Toralf's Hammer 
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature has ", , Unattach Toralf's Hammer: It deals 3 damage to any target. Return Toralf's Hammer to its owner's hand."
Equipped creature gets +3/+0 as long as it's legendary.
Equip
glad peak
aka god kindred deck but it's the christian god
trail anvil
with damage amplifiers like [[city on fire]] , the damage that toralf continues on gets multiplied 3x each time
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Enchantment
Convoke (Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for or one mana of that creature's color.)
If a source you control would deal damage to a permanent or player, it deals triple that damage instead.
trail anvil
so basically if you kept targeting 1 toughness creatures and started with a 3 damage spell it'd go 6, 15, 42, and so on. super easy to kill someone out of nowhere
glad peak
that or blas act for lethal on a board of like 7
trail anvil
yeah that too
glad peak
2 indestructible creatures on the opponent's side = infinite which is alright since it's a lot of setup
trail anvil
the win is pretty telegraphed so you should either get good protection on him or know when to go for it, but it's really fun
one time I think I tried to go for the win 4-5 separate times in one game but people in the pod were super responsible with their removal
lapis viper
Oh Jesus lol
glad peak
Yeah, you play blood moon effects, ruination effects, soft stax pieces, and deflecting effects to make the window wider
Fun deck but it’s not good and people will get mad at you
lapis viper
https://scryfall.com/card/fin/215/choco-seeker-of-paradise
Back on this, it looks pretty fun to do maybe a chocobo spread kinda deal and make them large
You could play tifa to get double landfall
And then I think there's a card that gives them trample
sudden lava
I got boros sephiroth to over 50 power
gritty nest
i hate trying to cut cards from decks
past socket
I remain thankful to the considering section of any deckbuilding site
gritty nest
cut random stuff, see how it goes?
past socket
Or at least just put a bunch into considering to get to 99, do some goldfishing and test and chop and change. Might like something else more or realise you might have a bit too much redundancy in some places. Might end up finding something else later on even
past socket
Been what I’ve been doing with a [[Mishra, Eminent One]] brew around Vehicles
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past socket
Circumvents crew costs and can give the Warform keywords if you wanna focus more on swinging the Warform
Precon Mishra is a beautiful bastard with loads of beautiful Artifact applications
gritty nest
He leads to shenanigans, and that’s always fun
My vehicle commander is [[alistair, the brigadier]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Soldier
Whenever you cast a historic spell, create a 1/1 white Soldier creature token. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)
Whenever Alistair attacks, you may pay 
. If you do, creatures you control get +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of historic permanents you control.
3/3
past socket
Nice!
copper pecan
i have a ruling question
if you take someone out in a multiplayer game while they control something you own, where does that card go?
stark skiff
they revert back to you
if you lose while someone else owns something of yours it gets exiled
rigid scarab
if you lose while someone else owns something of yours it gets exiled
Not exiled
It just
Stops existing
No effects trigger off it leaving it just
poof
gone
broken fjord
Think it depends on where they stole it from. If it was threatened I think it goes back to you. If it entered from anywhere that was not the battlefield, then it goes poof.
glad peak
Correct
But I can’t remember if that’s due strictly to ruling or due to end of turn procedures
lapis viper
So this may be a weird question
And I'm sure there's more nuance to it
But is there a quick reference guide for what bracket a commander typically falls in
Like I'm sure on paper some commanders are a lot better than others
Gonna hit the event tomorrow and just kinda see what the power level is so I can base what I end up making off of that
rigid scarab
But is there a quick reference guide for what bracket a commander typically fall...
A commander doesn’t on its own determine how strong a deck is
It’s the deck itself
lapis viper
Right I get that