Magic the Gathering

[clever sun]

It's the definitive Green wincon

[inland folio]

Wild

So, I understand I’m playing a lot of big dudes, and that they get more big dudes

But

Can the dudes my big dudes pull be floods

[rigid scarab]

Green stompy doesn’t really have stax pieces

Best we got is [[collector ouphe]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe

Collector Ouphe <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Ouphe
Activated abilities of artifacts can't be activated.
"He steals power from treasure after treasure, and what does it do for the ouphe? Nothing." —Jhoira
2/2

[clever sun]

That's not a very Mono-Green thing

You won't see an [[Iona, Shield of Emeria]] in green

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/20/iona-shield-of-emeria

Iona, Shield of Emeria <:mana6:292901508780130304><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Angel
Flying
As Iona, Shield of Emeria enters, choose a color.
Your opponents can't cast spells of the chosen color.
No more shall the righteous cower before evil.
7/7

[inland folio]

I mean idc what the color combo is

[rigid scarab]

Big guys into stax in general

Not a lot of overlap

[inland folio]

Sadge

[golden plover]

I guess you'd want Selesnya for stax pieces on it

[clever sun]

Just the Phyrexian Praetors do staxy effects at high mana costs as a whole

On creatures at least

[golden plover]

But you're better off not really mixing stax and big creatures

[clever sun]

[[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ima/189/vorinclex-voice-of-hunger

Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger <:mana6:292901508780130304><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Praetor
Trample
Whenever you tap a land for mana, add one mana of any type that land produced.
Whenever an opponent taps a land for mana, that land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
7/6

[rigid scarab]

Yeah the praetors are your best bet for big guys with stax

[golden plover]

Well only the first wave

[inland folio]

Yeah I’ve seen this guy

He’s based

[clever sun]

You can easily toss the cycle of praetors into a deck

[[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ima/18/elesh-norn-grand-cenobite

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Praetor
Vigilance
Other creatures you control get +2/+2.
Creatures your opponents control get -2/-2.
"The Gitaxians whisper among themselves of other worlds. If they exist, we must bring Phyrexia's magnificence to them."
4/7

[golden plover]

Second wave was a lot smaller and some were staxy, but not all

And third wave had the weird saga shit going on

[rigid scarab]

If you want the most enablers for big guys

[clever sun]

All in the second wave had stax elements

[rigid scarab]

You need to lean more green

[clever sun]

They just weren't huge

[rigid scarab]

Which has less stax

Dipping into more colours offers more stax

[clever sun]

Mono-Green Stax is a thing

[rigid scarab]

But less room for stompy enablers

[clever sun]

But it's not on huge creatures

[inland folio]

Then what’s it on

[golden plover]

What advantage does mono-green stax have you don't get from having white and/or red in there?

[clever sun]

Yisan

[rigid scarab]

The eldrazi titans are sort of stax in the sense that they deny resources

[golden plover]

Oh right, forgot Yisan existed

[sudden lava]

There, 3 aetherdrift speculated keywords

[clever sun]

Ok

[clever sun]

Most do nowdays

He's still okay

[golden plover]

He's fine

[clever sun]

But very few people care about Stax

[fallow citrus]

my monored deck is stax because it denies my opponent life

[golden plover]

Just forget he's a card

[clever sun]

let alone in Mono-Green

[golden plover]

My combo deck is stax because it denies the opponent winning

[inland folio]

I might as well ask about the last archetype I like

Cards tempo pile

[rigid scarab]

Uhhhh

[fallow citrus]

what format is this for btw

[inland folio]

You play good cards and you win

[rigid scarab]

Like battlecruiser

Commander

[inland folio]

Commander

[golden plover]

That's more of a thing for 60 card formats

[fallow citrus]

oh sure

[inland folio]

Sadge

[golden plover]

I mean you can build a commander by throwing good stuff together

[rigid scarab]

I mean tempo piles exist in commander

[clever sun]

Very viable

[golden plover]

But it's not like really an "archetype"

[fallow citrus]

is a tymna deck not a tempo pile

[clever sun]

That's the basis of the concept of Midrange

[inland folio]

I mean no wincon type shit btw

Like no end goal combo

[clever sun]

Yes she is

[golden plover]

I mean there's plenty of good tempo pile commanders

[inland folio]

Just play good cards and you win

[rigid scarab]

Just good solid decks that play creatures and can grind

Yeah I mean

[inland folio]

Yeah

[fallow citrus]

[[tymna the weaver]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver

Tymna the Weaver <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
Lifelink
At the beginning of each of your postcombat main phases, you may pay X life, where X is the number of opponents that were dealt combat damage this turn. If you do, draw X cards.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
2/2

[rigid scarab]

Idk what to say just throw good cards in sure

[fallow citrus]

[[thrasios]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/c16/46/thrasios-triton-hero

Thrasios, Triton Hero <:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
: Scry 1, then reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped. Otherwise, draw a card.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
Beneath crashing waves lies an ocean of secrets waiting to be explored.
1/3

[clever sun]

In Commander, you can easily win without a combo on the back of great card quality

[fallow citrus]

[clever sun]

Because every card is legal

Tymna, Thrasios, Kraum, are all options for this

[rigid scarab]

You can very easily make a no combo no stax no storm off deck

And be successful with just goodstuff

[golden plover]

Although for commander, especially if you're playing at like an LGS or something, do note a lot of the goodstuff cards are... Usually kinda expensive

[fallow basin]

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/song-of-life-and-death-1/ been working on this since 2010. Shits fun.

[inland folio]

Is there a stax goodstuff pile

[clever sun]

Tymna

[twilit canyon]

tymna yea

act

[rigid scarab]

Well he’s gonna play on the commander client

So cost hopefully isn’t a big problem

[twilit canyon]

najeela and kenrith arent bad too

[golden plover]

Hahaha nah that's not how that's gonna work

Tbh we don't know anything about this client anyways rn

Other than "it's in the plans"

Because porting 20k cards to a new client seems... Really unlikely anytime soon

[twilit canyon]

and it was said by the ceo who really doesnt truly decide shit

hasbro ceo too

[rigid scarab]

Stax decks are often goodstuff piles imo

[inland folio]

Doesn’t magic have 30k cards

[golden plover]

Like arena only has 1/3rd of all the legal cards in the game rn on it or something

Is it closer to 30k now?

[twilit canyon]

we are almost at 30k

arena has about 9-10k

iirc

[golden plover]

Point is still that there's not really a feasible way to just shit out a new client for 4 player with all the cards in the game on it

[fallow citrus]

just play on modo as long as you like excel spreadsheets

[golden plover]

It'd still take YEARS for arena to get everything and the codebase does not support 4 player

[clever sun]

Or Cockatrice

[golden plover]

Honestly, tabletop sim is the best for that

[rigid scarab]

Ok here’s the idea

You make a code that determines what game actions to take

And you train an AI to read card text and interpret them into your code

[golden plover]

It's not a dedicated mtg platform, but tabletop sim is your best way to play most board games and card games digitally

[inland folio]

I’m Ngl, at this point I do want my client to be atleast presentable

[golden plover]

And there's enough people who use it you could find games

[fallow citrus]

I mean it's fine

[rigid scarab]

And you just throw your cardpool at the AI

[inland folio]

I’m too spoiled by modern clients to use stuff that looks like a spreedsheet

[golden plover]

MTG online isn't bad looking. It just also looks it's age

[twilit canyon]

nah mtgo looks like ass

dont let them trick u here

[inland folio]

I tried mtgo

[fallow citrus]

I aint trickin anyone

[inland folio]

And could not figure out wtf was happening

[fallow citrus]

I just don't mind how it looks

[inland folio]

In like 3 hours

[golden plover]

Yeah ive played enough spreadsheet games mtgo isn't awful

It's just old

[fallow citrus]

maybe I gaslit myself into enjoying it

[trail anvil]

it's straight outta the early 2000s

[golden plover]

But it also does have the upside to be able to play any (non-commander) deck you want for like $10 (using third part services)

[fallow citrus]

although I'd say cockatrice isn't much better

[golden plover]

And the cards can actually be traded and have value, unlike arena

[trail anvil]

aol.net lookin ass

[golden plover]

Again, if we're including third party, the clear winner is tabletop sim

Cockatrice is fine

Forge... Exists

[trail anvil]

I'm not about to tout cockatrice as a better client for a whole host of reasons, but at least it is free

[golden plover]

Spelltable isn't bad ig

[fallow citrus]

well the best third party way is using moxfield+spelltable

[golden plover]

I've never used spelltable

[fallow citrus]

it's pretty decent

esp if you already have a group for commander

[golden plover]

I know it also doesn't hate proxies which is cool

[fallow citrus]

well it depends who you play with

[golden plover]

I mean inherently it doesn't dislike them

Which some of the others have an issue with

[fallow citrus]

well it's impossible for it to

[golden plover]

True

[fallow citrus]

it's just a site to host 4+ webcams for a commander game

[golden plover]

Yeah, it's not bad from what I've heard

I just haven't bothered using it

Tabletop sim is also a good place for testing, because you don't have to spend anything

[trail anvil]

I get the impression that commander online is just usually a struggle anyways no matter what the platform though

[golden plover]

Oh for sure

Commander really is at its best when you're hanging out with friends and have the ability to talk easily

[trail anvil]

cockatrice always has people dipping mid-game and/or raging about power levels, spelltable I've heard all the complaints about players but I've never tried it myself

yeah commander in person is way better, even if you don't fuck with some people at your locals

[golden plover]

Tabletop sim has voice chat and stuff, but you've got the same issues with people complaining about power levels or shit

Even if the worst person at my locals is in my pod (of course he is, thats me), I can still chat with them and the other three players and sorta get a better game

Also, you can just like not play with shitty people irl

All the online ones sorta have random matching outside of friends

[past socket]

Yeah it’s the social aspects of Commander that I think are a big factor of it’s popularity

Though sorry for probably stating the obvious

[trail anvil]

one of the dudes who's permanently stuck at my table in the last few weeks is a guy who like genuinely fried his brain on acid or something. the game is 3 players as a result with him just randomly focusing me, but even still I'd rather play against the other 2 players over cockatrice

[last glen]

playing a jank bat handrip deck in standard for my color missions
kinda funny

just had a game against another monoblack
stole one copy of his talent card
he had another

[lusty trench]

Damn I missed the panglacial wyrm selvala discussion that always ends with "it doesn't matter because a judge will dq you for trying it"

[golden plover]

True

[lusty trench]

I'm surprised they don't just ban panglacial wyrm in every format considering no one is actually gonna play it without the intent to break the game

[fallow citrus]

if nobody plays it then why ban it

[gritty nest]

Because of a whole lot of rulings issues

~~looks at pole position ~~

[fallow citrus]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

sure if everyone played it to cause these rules issues sure

you can create rules nightmares with just a lot of layer based cards

[stark skiff]

oh yeah are those duskmorn arena codes useless now?

still have a couple if anyone wants

[fallow citrus]

very easy to trip up an mtg player with those, you don't even need to stoop to panglacial wurm

I'll take some codes 👀

[stark skiff]

I forgot if this one works my bad

[past socket]

I gotta look up what the Keimi token looks like

Who doesn’t love frogge

[copper pecan]

big numbers is peak game design

i was hooting and hollering when they printed [[yargle and multani]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/256/yargle-and-multani

Yargle and Multani <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Frog Spirit Elemental
"I've heard much about you from my daughter," Multani rumbled. "There was a time when I'd balk at your aid, phantom, but she has shown me the merit in Urborg's strange ways." "Gnshhagghkkapphribbit," replied Yargle.
18/6

[golden plover]

Yargle is lame

It's all about Mistmeader now

[past socket]

Love exiling those 2 for Mimeoplasm

But yeah big number always fun and makes my brain go weee

[fallow citrus]

it worked ty

[pulsar talon]

Wait, 0 mana?

[last glen]

why not

we need more 0 mana cards in MTG

I want to build a deck entirely out of 0 mana cards

[pulsar talon]

So where's it legal in?

[past socket]

0 mana strat around stealinf when

[trail anvil]

if ur not joking, this is an ai generated card

[pulsar talon]

Oh

[zinc shard]

wasnt a fan of Duskmourn

[past socket]

3Spooky5Me

[golden plover]

Ooh don't like that

[past socket]

Lilianer

[golden plover]

I do like that art being used for this

But the formatting looks bad

[subtle sierra]

The loyalty is barely noticeable

I'm ok with the text tho idk

[past socket]

Yeah I think the issue is the Loyalty total too

[golden plover]

It's the loyalty and a bit of the textbox

[past socket]

Planeswalkers I’ve still gotta get used to

But I’d love to mess with some at some point

[gritty nest]

Is this real?

[golden plover]

Supposedly

Screaming Nemesis shot up to $35

People are realizing that's the best card in the set lol

[gritty nest]

[[screaming nemesis]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/157/screaming-nemesis

Screaming Nemesis <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Creature — Spirit
Haste
Whenever Screaming Nemesis is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to any other target. If a player is dealt damage this way, they can't gain life for the rest of the game.
She sees the faces of those who wronged her in everyone she encounters.
3/3

[last glen]

poggers
red Phyrexian Obliterator
this is a fallacious comparison

[gritty nest]

I can’t tell which is more cursed, this or retro frame Karn, the Great Creator

[last glen]

I know it's attractive in burn/aggro strategies as your curve topper

[zinc shard]

We already have red Phyrexian Obliterator... in digital only

[golden plover]

The upside for nemesis is that it's only 1 red pip too

[past socket]

Horrors are so fun lmao

[steady onyx]

whats a cheap control deck

so i can try diff types of decks on mtga

and see which I like the best

[last glen]

lemme look at the free decks they give you

There's the blue-black deck Faerie Pranks
it has some counterspells and control effects with forced tapping and bouncing

it's definitely not a good version of a control deck
but it might help you start to experiment with the playstyle

[steady onyx]

ok

ill try it ouit

[sleek ferry]

So I didn’t realize ninjitsu wasn’t a spell being casted lol

The interaction between kaito and interrupter is crazy under high noon then

[twilit canyon]

thats an oxymoron

lol

you can play control on a budget

i guess

but its gonna be weak

[sleek ferry]

The issue is

The meta isn’t cheap right now

[twilit canyon]

it never really has been

especially not control decks

[sleek ferry]

This is probably the most expensive I remember standard being since I started playing

[twilit canyon]

the price of non-control non-midrange decks have gone up a fair bit yea

but its not too much different than standard 5 years ago

[sleek ferry]

Eh, I’m not complaining as I love the current state of standard in terms of power level, deck diversity etc

[sudden lava]

leak update on Aetherdrift commander decks || it has been fixed to 4 decks instead of 2||

[twilit canyon]

for sure

yea im not really like

hating on the price

but it is a point of contention

[gritty nest]

So my Minotaur tribal deck only had 22 Minotaurs in the 99. I was told to add more lol

[glad peak]

Don’t

What do they mean by “only”

[gritty nest]

What do you think I mean?

[[sethron, Hurloon General]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/25/sethron-hurloon-general

Sethron, Hurloon General <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Minotaur Warrior
Whenever Sethron, Hurloon General or another nontoken Minotaur you control enters, create a 2/3 red Minotaur creature token.
: Minotaurs you control get +1/+0 and gain menace and haste until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or .)
4/4

[gritty nest]

And there’s only 22 creatures with the Minotaur type. In total there’s 23? Creatures in the entire deck

[glad peak]

22 is more than enough

[fallow citrus]

low ranked bo3 standard is wild

currently playing against landburn

or just a deck playing [[iridescent vinelasher]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/99/iridescent-vinelasher

Iridescent Vinelasher <:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Lizard Assassin
Offspring (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, when this creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
Landfall — Whenever a land you control enters, this creature deals 1 damage to target opponent.
1/2

[fallow citrus]

very annoying actually because my maelstrom pulse never goes into my hand when they offspring 3 of these

[fallow citrus]

preacher of the schism, what a goated card

[ornate cedar]

Where can I find a guide for suggested ratios of cards for the different formats, kind of like how Concordia asked about? Not just for tribals, but also for ideal numbers of copies of a card in formats like Standard.

I still struggle with knowing whether to include 2, 3, or 4 copies of non-engine.

[glad peak]

From what I remember the rule of thumb was:
4: need/want multiple to win
3: only need to see one
2: slot used for redundant effects or silver bullets you don’t necessarily need to see
1: redundant effects/tutor targets

[sleek ferry]

Alright I’m convinced

Kaito is the best planeswalker to hit standard since TWE

[twilit canyon]

this is a very low bar given the quality of current walkers atm

though tyvar, jubilant brawler is also really strong but never in proper standard and/or constructed formats

[sleek ferry]

Nah you don’t get me

Yes we’ve had good walkers, Tyvar, lotv, 3 cmc wrenn

But Kaito Bane of Nightmares is HIM

Himothy

Actually such an insane control tool to have

I need to make more time one of these days to actually refine this esper control list

[twilit canyon]

ehh

you should step back to take a bit more of an objective look at it

he's good dont get me wrong

but there are more than a few spots where he is very awkward

emperor, oko, minsc and boo these 3 have basically no awkward spot unless you were already fucked long beforehand

i think a good spot to remember about kaito is that if you are behind, hes really really awkward

this isnt true of the truly powerful walkers

and this means that he really doesnt fit a ton of decks

[sleek ferry]

Disagree on this when it comes to TWE. If you were behind, there was definitely times where she was super awkward to just cast. I think yes, if you’re hard casting Kaito, that shit is probably feels bad as hell, but anytime you ninjitsu him in, he’s actually insane

[twilit canyon]

and when is that ever a truly great play?

like it pushes you do far ahead you cant lose type

it only happens when you were already quite ahead

because otherwise, its the wrong play

ie: vs some orzhov midrange deck. they t1 duress you, taking some removal spell otd, you played t1 sailor flashed in, and then t2 bat or flashed mastermind, they played their own bat, t3 you draw kaito

you can swing, hope they give up bat, and flash kaito in on the unblocked or they dont block and you give up board presence for kaito

this is a pretty "decent" case if they dont just kill him or your left over creature and create pressure from there

it gets worse curving vs golgari

they t1 elves on the draw

they can t2 glissa

say you were on more midrange and you did t1 tap land t2 bat

you draw kaito

your bat cant activate kaito

you would be giving them free reign to resolve whatever bat took and kaito may be dead after

kaito also is very rough in board stalls

if the field is clogged, he is stunning one thing and then doing very very little

he wont draw unless you connect too

at that point, you paid 4 mana for a worse unholy annex

flip it, kaito is actually awful vs aggro decks

they do not care and prefer you lose the blockers

kaito is always trading board presence for cards

which is something you can only do truly well if you are ahead

[sleek ferry]

I do think Kaito being removal bait on their turn itself is pretty invaluable tbh. Especially if you’re on the draw. I get the argument vs golgari as that matchup itself is rough for you trading 1 for 1 for more than 1 reason. I also don’t mind resetting say bat for the 3 damage + draw or stun, especially depending on exactly what I know. I should reiterate; under the list I’m testing with high noon and ability to play good flashers that can be recycled with Kaito, Kaito just feels like an infinite value engine in the best case scenario, or great removal bait that recycled your interaction

[past socket]

Kaito presenting a Catch 22, right?

[twilit canyon]

this moreso sounds like a case of: is this card good or am i good at using this card

there is a big difference

i went through this a ton

i'd put up some insane winrates on bad cards because i myself was good enough to carry it

playtesting vs truly good pros helped me snap out of it

[past socket]

Oh I was thinking of the catch 22 being that leaving Kaito can present a threat but going after could just be being baited and the Kaito player having another play all along

[twilit canyon]

nah kill the walker

kill walker -> then player

unless you have lethal on player

too many failcase scenarios where leaving a walker in play is game losing even kaito when behind

you surveil 2 they hit the right cards off it and gg

worst case is they draw exactly what was needed with kaito in play without using kaito abilities

does not apply just to kaito

applies to every pwer

[sleek ferry]

Btw, I do think if you’re using the surveil 2, you’re either crazy ahead or crazy behind looking for answers. If that’s what you were getting at

[twilit canyon]

of course

but i also think the stun isnt impactful enough cus its on a - abilitiy

and the + is irrelevant

if it was +1 tap a creature

-2 emblem

actually would be very very good

+1 tap means even without a stun he is slowly breaking a board open to win

cus then even in a stall, he is going up in loyalty

similar to how wandering emperor +1 was a secret clock

if u let her do it twice, you rarely got a chance to ever come back

[sleek ferry]

The + is just extra pressure for them to deal with the Kaito or have blockers up, which is fine. - I do understand can be trash, but it all depends what we’re hitting right? 3 turns of not being able to swing with a glissa, or an overlord is sometimes all you need to take control of a game back

[twilit canyon]

but it can equally be useless

which is the worse case bc its on a -

thats the issue

jace + being -3/-0 is super helpful for jace

cus it means if u want, u can truly lock down an attacker even if it doesnt attack

and it becomes a worse blocker

even if its weaker

as an ability

its better for the roles jace wants and thus jace sees way more play

loyalty goes up, jace keeps you alive better

loyalty goes down on kaito, he keeps you alive worse

[past socket]

Oh Jace! Think I’ve seen one of his incarnations in a Standard mill deck

[twilit canyon]

not necessarily mill

jace perfected mind is currently the most played walker rn

he beats domain and control and is a midrange breaker

[past socket]

Yeah that’s the guy I was thinking of

[golden plover]

Having pretty good success with Orzhov. Feels like a decent deck to be playing moving forward

And the fact that you sometimes just have game on t5 on the spot is sick

[past socket]

Jace, The Perfected Mind

[twilit canyon]

should be yeah

[golden plover]

Oh whoops Conquerer hit the battlefield? GG

[twilit canyon]

only real issue is orzhov kinda stinky vs jace

[golden plover]

Yeah, but the upside is Elenda really shines in that matchup

[twilit canyon]

gotta have the kill spell

[golden plover]

Since Dimir can't touch her

[twilit canyon]

elenda is okayge

[golden plover]

She's fine in most MUs

[twilit canyon]

i feel like if she had first strike then gladly goat

[golden plover]

But I think I'll play 2 and side 2 more into Dimir

[twilit canyon]

but she took a weird set of keywords

[golden plover]

Since they outright cannot kill her

[sleek ferry]

Sure, in that sense I do think Kaito is basically a skill check. If I have 3 mana up, and I have a Kaito and a no more lies in hand, and I’m up vs golgari or Orzhov, it would be very stupid of me to even think about playing that Kaito, knowing next turn they got annex access, glissa, or maybe a mosswood I just want to make sure doesn’t hit the field

[golden plover]

Dimir does not run anything that gets her off the field

[twilit canyon]

actually a case where kaito beats u speaking of lol

[golden plover]

I'm also torn on Amalia as a possibility in place of [[Essence Channeler]] (I don't like Essence Channeler)

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/12/essence-channeler

Essence Channeler <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Creature — Bat Cleric
As long as you've lost life this turn, Essence Channeler has flying and vigilance.
Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on Essence Channeler.
When Essence Channeler dies, put its counters on target creature you control.
2/1

[twilit canyon]

kaito will punish her bad

[golden plover]

I know she's like technically better than pridemate

But essence channeler feels worse a lot of the time

[twilit canyon]

idt channeler or amalia fits here

go for quality

[golden plover]

That 1 toughness difference makes me kinda hate channeler

[twilit canyon]

what is ur list rn

[past socket]

Fixation is fun, especially with Dimir in my brain stem, though it kinda went from Dimir to Sultai. Though should mess with the other stuffs containing Dimir colours

[twilit canyon]

def especially with firebrand goblin back. he sneaks into red lists sometimes

[sleek ferry]

Not doing anything on etb is rough

[twilit canyon]

amalia at least has ward

but vs a ton of decks they go sure pay 3

[sleek ferry]

I think I’ve cut down my non etb triggers to like 2

[golden plover]

This is my current list

[twilit canyon]

i feel that is also excessive

[golden plover]

Obviously things will change when I get more WCs

[twilit canyon]

hmmm yeah i dont love the lifegain stuff

[golden plover]

I'm debating a third Conquerer, but I'm not sold on it

[twilit canyon]

i actually think elenda is more than enough

[past socket]

Vampire gaming

[golden plover]

The thing with the lifegain stuff is that it stabilizes against aggro and there's the t5 kill

[twilit canyon]

yeah with conqueror

but it sounds super rough vs good decks

especially with golgari and dimir being so good rn

and the good aggro decks should overkill you

that being jeskai convoke and gruul prowess

[golden plover]

I've been doing fine against the aggro decks, but it's definitely our toughest MU rn

[twilit canyon]

so unless you gained outright like 40 life

[golden plover]

This is really rough rn

[twilit canyon]

they will blow you up

[golden plover]

But I'm thinking there's a very real list here

[twilit canyon]

yeah but not with lifegain

or at least

focus shouldnt be on it

this reads like an alchemy list where there is some real lifegain payoff

namely the bat

[golden plover]

Yeah the focus def isn't Lifegain but I think the idea is there

[sleek ferry]

I lied, technically my non etb triggers is at 8 (I’m counting whale, faerie mastermind, and schism in this)

[golden plover]

Although actually with Lifegain, the offspring bat is NASTY

[twilit canyon]

it is but the offspring bat is super weak without it

[golden plover]

That thing can ping for like 6 easy

[twilit canyon]

hence why i'd go quality > synergy

especially rn

[golden plover]

Yeah, I'll definitely play with it

[twilit canyon]

where even synergy decks have way more quality than expected

[golden plover]

And with nemesis rising, I'm a little spooked there too

[sleek ferry]

But, faerie mastermind + whale have flash (and whale has expensive ward) so idk if I really count them

[golden plover]

If burn becomes a real deck, and the other decks that are on nemesis side him in, we open to rough MUs

[twilit canyon]

burn isnt gonna be re

real

nemesis is not that good

[sleek ferry]

I’m running 1 flanker in case I need gy hate, but I could probably throw flanker in the side, all things considered

[twilit canyon]

remember there is always an aggro spike in new sets

because ppl trying brews with new cards that will lose to aggro

but established good decks were dogging on aggro

worlds players played a lot of gruul and got heavy punished

[twilit canyon]

side it yeah

flanker is not great main

[golden plover]

Yeah, I can deal with Burn. My concern is nemesis is spiking in play in sideboards

[twilit canyon]

dont be

if they bring nemesis in, they fundamentally did not understand the card or the match up

[golden plover]

Hmm maybe we go less lifegain and run enduring innocence?

Turns out that's a good fucking card

[twilit canyon]

nemesis should go out vs everything that isnt red mirrors

[golden plover]

Nemesis comes in on annex, no?

[twilit canyon]

actually probably correct

[golden plover]

You play it on 4

[twilit canyon]

no

annex life drain still drains

[golden plover]

So you can shock it in respect to a kill spell

[twilit canyon]

and you are still staring down a 6/6

[golden plover]

Yeah, but they can't stabilize through nemesis

[twilit canyon]

a 6/6 that deals an extra 2 damage

thats lethal in 2

so unless you got super fast ahead of them, you lose that

if you play nemesis i'll block it with my demon you will lose 2 life, lose another 2 on annex, and then take 6 and i only lose 3 life

idc if i cant gain from here

im just gonna kill you that next turn

[golden plover]

I'm also toying with this as a pet deck

The idea is pretty real, but I just think it's not quite there yet

Definitely not playing Lathril in this tho lol

She does not seem standard playable

Some games you get like 30 10/10s out

And other games you can't do anything

[past socket]

That green do be mono

And if Aeve has taught me anything, Mono-Green is terrifying

[golden plover]

I mean, I wouldn't wanna be on this rn

Because sunfall is a card

And the black one is pretty good too

[past socket]

Sunfall is only fun when I play it, dangit

[sleek ferry]

Sunfall my beloved

[last glen]

spitball
are there any cards that reward you for having multiple creature types

[sleek ferry]

Party mechanic [[coveted prize]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/znr/95/coveted-prize

Coveted Prize <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
This spell costs less to cast for each creature in your party. (Your party consists of up to one each of Cleric, Rogue, Warrior, and Wizard.)
Search your library for a card, put it into your hand, then shuffle. If you have a full party, you may cast a spell with mana value 4 or less from your hand without paying its mana cost.

[last glen]

unfortunately those are neither dinosaurs or angels

[sleek ferry]

You didn’t specify neither smh

[twilit canyon]

okay shit

actually i dont think orzhov has as much quality cards as i thought

its really just elenda

[last glen]

brain check
if Mobile Throne entering triggers an effect
does that effect trigger twice frome Throne

[twilit canyon]

what

do you mean roaming throne?

[[roaming throne]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne

Roaming Throne <:mana4:292901508712890379>

Artifact Creature — Golem
Ward
As Roaming Throne enters, choose a creature type.
Roaming Throne is the chosen type in addition to its other types.
If a triggered ability of another creature you control of the chosen type triggers, it triggers an additional time.
4/4

[twilit canyon]

okay i deciphered what you meant

yes

ie: roaming throne on human with a [[soul warden]] in play

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/24/soul-warden

Soul Warden <:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Creature — Human Cleric
Whenever another creature enters, you gain 1 life.
"One does not question the size or shape of the grains of sand in an hourglass. Nor do I question the temperament of the souls under my guidance."
1/1

[twilit canyon]

you gain 1 life twice

[last glen]

grazie

[past socket]

If you were to try and exile [[Lord of Extinction]] for the [[The Mimeoplasm]] and used it for the +1/+1 counters, what would happen?

[copper pecan]

big controversy going on on tumblr over whether or not elesh norn counts as conventionally attractive

i don't understand how this is an argument

she literally has tons of exposed viscera and has a giant bone plate thing the size of her entire body on her face, the average person is not going to see that and think it's attractive

[twilit canyon]

hot

[rigid scarab]

Lemme think about it

[past socket]

Did not expect a civil war over the attractive of top Phyrexian nuisance, Elesh Norn

[copper pecan]

tumblr users will see the xenomorph and think "yo she kinda a baddie "

[twilit canyon]

yeah

[last glen]

okay I will be the devil's advocate

She clearly still has a feminine humanoid body shape

[subtle sierra]

I mean, she is a girlboss

But she's also a butchered corpse

So if you're into that, idk man

Sus

[copper pecan]

okay lukka, whatever you say

[stark skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/i-would-definitely-yes-boy-would-i-gif-14313450

[twilit canyon]

momma didnt raise no bitch

disappointing testing with orzhov. i feel like its got cards but it also lacks them. cant think of anything that stands out proper the way that the demon package does but the demon package i feel does way better with blue or green

[last glen]

which format

Rakdos Demon Midrange going crazy rn in Pioneer

[twilit canyon]

standard

[trail anvil]

what does white give you, get lost and overlord?

ig sunfall too

[twilit canyon]

sunfall side yea

idt the cards are bad

but i think the problem is blue gets you way more mana sinks

way stronger way to get through a game of magic with glissa

and scooze

i think the biggest flaw is that orzhov lacks a real 2 drop set

[trail anvil]

and tear asunder

[twilit canyon]

golgari gets mosswood

tear ass is good yea

but not the biggest draw to golgari

golgari and dimir both have big 2 drops

mastermind

is a mana sink

punishes enemy annex

and glissas

[trail anvil]

ye with annex it seems way better

[twilit canyon]

golgari has the knight and scooze

elenda is a baller

[trail anvil]

and frillback which is nice vs gruul yeah?

[twilit canyon]

but theres too many points where she unfort cant solo the game

if she picked up first strike

not menace

then we're talking

[trail anvil]

that sounds like it'd solo some board states

shame cause her hexproof from instants sounds really solid

[twilit canyon]

these are the cards i played that i was for sure locked in on

i tried different combos between eternal wanderer, dreadhorde general, gix's command, gix

some aggro-ish 1 drops like veteran for grave hate

evolved sleeper was in for a bit

both overlords i tried

nothing truly stuck

[last glen]

[[Frillback]]

[lost widget]

Multiple cards match “Frillback”, can you be more specific?

[twilit canyon]

[[tranquil frillback]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mat/24/tranquil-frillback

Tranquil Frillback <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Dinosaur
When Tranquil Frillback enters, you may pay up to three times. When you pay this cost one or more times, choose up to that many —
• Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
• Exile target player's graveyard.
• You gain 4 life.
3/3

[twilit canyon]

basically the same problem the gate deck has in standard

theres a lack of engine

the demon engine is there

but its weaker when you cant use llanowar to accelerate and cant back it up with powerful 2 drops in scooze and dreadknight

speaking of dreadknight this card is fucking good as its known but it plays so well with so many cards rn

its the definition of glue

i forget if u played during that time komi but do u remember the sultai midrange decks in standard during grn/rna?

dreadknight is basically the best version of the explore package all by itself

hmm speaking of the demon package

might do that in gates

i think thats possibly the missing piece

[past socket]

Welp I play IRL Commander now!

[twilit canyon]

thats nice

[past socket]

Got Mutant Mayhem becaude hey its the Moth that got me into Commander in the first place, though hey could build around The Master, Transcendant instead

[sudden lava]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/448940916833648640/1310072932931866634/image.png?ex=6743e3ff&is=6742927f&hm=d9510bc8e60da14c67551d975e7b9cea331217ccc93bc662f3f75bc487d7204a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=318&height=448

got this pretty spara's adjuicator for cheap at locals today

[twilit canyon]

cooking maybe?

archdruid's charm may be a bit too cute

[trail anvil]

yeah, I miss that explore payoff that gained you 3 life each time. it was a brick on its own but when you drew it with jadelight you fucking trampled aggro

[sudden lava]

and by cheap I mean free, they said it isn't even a dollar so "nah you can just have it, you are a regular"

[twilit canyon]

the best part of the new package is just how much it does by itself

dont get me wrong i do like the old explore package but

it did lack power

could easily get punished too

[sudden lava]

my 70 cents in store credit shall only disappear when I actually buy a pack or something

[twilit canyon]

if druid's charm doesnt work out

i may wanna try just slotting in dreadknight

card is glue

tho this may be better as an alchemy list

[trail anvil]

I think you've made the best possible gates list in standard

[twilit canyon]

lol

[trail anvil]

that said gates feel kinda weirdge to me when we have no payoff like guild summit

ik dross was run in a number of demons lists, but is it a 4-of solid? I was kinda surprised to see that still

[twilit canyon]

the payoff is maze's end

that card is cracked

[twilit canyon]

your other option is dessecration demon

its also good

but it does lack the velocity

[trail anvil]

what are your thoughts on foregoing it altogether and relying on the stapled on demon token and soulstone sanctuary?

[twilit canyon]

then theres no point to playing gates

[trail anvil]

I meant in the golgari variant but ye gates you couldn't do that

[twilit canyon]

oh i do already

golgari has been a deck i've been working on since worlds now

[trail anvil]

ah the one you posted is the orzhov whoops

[twilit canyon]

team i was with has a deck in the arena shop rn that we worked on

its the golgari ramp

but i was working on match up data

reason we concluded on the ramp deck was bc it was the most potential angle of attacks vs the field

big reason i dont like nemesis is that vs non-red, the card is a blank

may as well have no text

shit wheres my latest golgari list

there we go

i went right back to 4 dross

this should be good vs everything in the field

a very 50/50 deck match ups

the ramp list is softer vs the bad aggro decks which means its also fine but i prefer this one to have a better mu vs other midrange and control and ramp

pulse is the worst card in the 75

and thats saying something

i think the only possible change i can see doing is splitting vivien and dreadhorde general

otherwise this is a perfect list for current

[past socket]

Though for expanding on Mutant Mayhem I’m not sure if I wanna build around the M o t h or the other Commander in there, The Master, Transcendent

Bring about my own Unity if you will

[[The Master, Transcendent]] for context

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/pip/6/the-master-transcendent

The Master, Transcendent <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Artifact Creature — Mutant
When The Master, Transcendent enters, target player gets two rad counters.
: Put target creature card in a graveyard that was milled this turn onto the battlefield under your control. It's a green Mutant with base power and toughness 3/3. (It loses its other colors and creature types.)
2/4

[polar lake]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9IltnzXDNkSffYWejdjOhQ

thinking of bringing this deck to my next standard fnm

[sleek ferry]

3 interrupters is a crazy hand

[fallow citrus]

[[aven interrupter]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/otj/4/aven-interrupter

Aven Interrupter <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Creature — Bird Rogue
Flash
Flying
When Aven Interrupter enters, exile target spell. It becomes plotted. (Its owner may cast it as a sorcery on a later turn without paying its mana cost.)
Spells your opponents cast from graveyards or from exile cost more to cast.
2/2

[fallow citrus]

[golden plover]

Something something not good in Prosper

[gritty nest]

My friend asked me for help with their [[Satya, Aetherflux]] deck

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/3/satya-aetherflux-genius

Satya, Aetherflux Genius <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
Menace, haste
Whenever Satya, Aetherflux Genius attacks, create a tapped and attacking token that's a copy of up to one other target nontoken creature you control. You get (two energy counters). At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice that token unless you pay an amount of equal to its mana value.
3/5

[gritty nest]

I suggested stuff that ETB make 2 energy, and on attack pay 2 to make a token (like thopters for example.)

“At that point I might as well just tear the deck apart and make Jeskai tokens.”

“You wanted a deck that used energy, it uses energy to make a go wide board.”

“Yea but it’s generic.”

Never fucking mind

[zinc shard]

My brother in christ, Satya IS a jeskai tokens deck

if they want an energy deck,they should make [[Dr. Madison Li]] instead.

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/pip/3/dr-madison-li

Dr. Madison Li <:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Human Scientist
Whenever you cast an artifact spell, you get (an energy counter).
, Pay : Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains trample and haste until end of turn.
, Pay : Draw a card.
, Pay : Return target artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
2/3

[gritty nest]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_19JfpTxlEir4-YNJ81vmA This is their Deck. Everything in considering is everything ive suggested

Hare Apparent was the only card they wanted to add

i'm not asking for suggestions, mainly just wanted to show you what they had

[golden plover]

Okay yeah I'm sold on

[[Crystal Barricade]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/fdn/7/crystal-barricade

Crystal Barricade <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Artifact Creature — Wall
Defender (This creature can't attack.)
You have hexproof. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
Prevent all noncombat damage that would be dealt to other creatures you control.
"Good as new!" —Krek, daysquad captain
0/4

[golden plover]

Card is good

Red decks just lose to this

[gritty nest]

i love the you have hexproof

and if you get two its just unkillable essentially?

[twilit canyon]

not the good red decks

the good red decks dont give a shit about the barricade

you are super overpreparing for very mid decks on barricade

[golden plover]

They can't go face and it chumps their best blocker every turn

[twilit canyon]

yeah but none of the good red decks are going face

and you cant actually chump their best attacker

monstrous rage will push them past it

[golden plover]

Yeah but they can't swing swiftspear or anything at you as easily while it's up

[pulsar talon]

Huh, didnt know that you could give hexproof to the player

[golden plover]

It slows them down hard

[gritty nest]

yes

i think one of the white leylines does it too

[golden plover]

The only burn spells red plays that do more than 4 are witchstalker's frenzy and the kicked zendikar one

[twilit canyon]

they can

theres nothing that will stop me, a red player, from swinging in

if you block, and i have it, i will kill it

if you dont block, i get free damage in

[trail anvil]

doesn't gruul just pump its creatures

like it turns off burn spells ig but I feel like the 10 power slickshot coming at your face is scarier

[glad peak]

It takes a card or 2 or skips a turn but only for that specific deck, surely there’s another option more universal

[twilit canyon]

the only burn spells red decks are running, if that, are burst lightning and lightning strike

[past socket]

Very unsure how I wanna upgrade the l ö m p

Be it focusing on proliferation, or just straight up Sultai Mill/Reanimator

[gritty nest]

do you guys think [[Deathbellow War Cry]] is a bit over the top?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/thb/294/deathbellow-war-cry

Deathbellow War Cry <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Sorcery
Search your library for up to four Minotaur creature cards with different names, put them onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
Deathbellow Canyon echoes with the roars of minotaurs calling each other to battle.

[sleek ferry]

Over the top as in too strong?

It’s an 8 mana bomb in a deck that you’re either running mono red or boros

[gritty nest]

over the top as in not needed/win more

[sleek ferry]

If anything, it does too little

Def win more

[gritty nest]

commander is [[Sethron, Hurloon General]] Minotaur tribal

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/25/sethron-hurloon-general

Sethron, Hurloon General <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manar:292901508796645397><:manar:292901508796645397>

Legendary Creature — Minotaur Warrior
Whenever Sethron, Hurloon General or another nontoken Minotaur you control enters, create a 2/3 red Minotaur creature token.
: Minotaurs you control get +1/+0 and gain menace and haste until end of turn. ( can be paid with either or .)
4/4

[gritty nest]

i typically tutor up the minotaurs that give minotaurs First Strike, Trample, Deathtouch, and Haste

but trying to cut cards to add more minotaurs, I only have 23 minotaurs in the deck lol

[trail anvil]

sounds fun tbh

I'd go for it

[gritty nest]

oh i already run it, was debating on cutting it due to being 8 mana

[last glen]

working on my first commander deck

we are in the trimming phase

[gritty nest]

nice

[sleek ferry]

Poor guy, actually unwinnable game state for them

[last glen]

we have a lot of cutting to do

[trail anvil]

gishath or pantlaza?

[last glen]

Zacama, actually
Although the premise of the deck is pretty off-kilter, to be fair

[gritty nest]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B95XSFwMw0aGtP8gWl7QoA What do you guys think I could cut for the cards in the considering pile?

[sleek ferry]

https://youtu.be/J2aQaIEhUsg?si=xPFOutVXX8mGqIEi

[last glen]

grazie

but also
if I were just building a Dinosaur deck, I would hopefully not be struggling this much

[gritty nest]

that title tho

[past socket]

Gotta love Tribal decks

[last glen]

Down to 130

[last glen]

these cuts are like pulling teeth

[trail anvil]

if you post it here we can probably help you with cuts

[gritty nest]

^

[last glen]

we made it down to a hundred somehow
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/i0OJNTTk-kuaU79NZywVxQ

[trail anvil]

angel of finality right off the bat is draft chaff

bellowing aegisaur also looks a lot worse outside of a dedicated enrage deck

if this isn't an online-only decklist I'd cut the duals, they cost way too much to justify playing in casual edh outside of cedh

[last glen]

basically every card I've looked at is in Considering

[trail anvil]

I'd most definitely move both etalis back, they're some of the strongest dinosaurs in commander

intrepid paleontologist is also a great card to get to high mana dinosaurs

in general it's probably better to focus either on dinosaurs or angels, but if you really want to mix them then it's probably better to go a more generic ramp source than starnheim aspirant imo

[last glen]

yeah if it was a proper typal deck it'd be more focused and better

but I'm being unhinged rn

[trail anvil]

seraph sanctuary isn't really good enough as a land without either focusing entirely on angels or playing into a lifegain theme

[gritty nest]

i was gonna say if youre doing angels just build a mono white giada deck

[last glen]

I'm bouncing around on who should be my commander
I'm playtesting with Huatli rn
sometimes the extra land search feels good to keep hitting land drops
but other times it feels low impact

[gritty nest]

[[Poet of Unity]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/189/huatli-poet-of-unity-roar-of-the-fifth-people

Huatli, Poet of Unity <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Human Warrior Bard
When Huatli, Poet of Unity enters, search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
: Exile Huatli, then return her to the battlefield transformed under her owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery.
2/3

Roar of the Fifth People
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after IV.)
I — Create two 3/3 green Dinosaur creature tokens.
II — Roar of the Fifth People gains "Creatures you control have ': Add , , or .'"
III — Search your library for a Dinosaur card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
IV — Dinosaurs you control gain double strike and trample until end of turn.

[gritty nest]

?

[trail anvil]

gishath and pantlaza are usually considered the best dinosaur commanders cause they're super high impact

but those don't have anything to do with angels

[gritty nest]

Pantlaza imo is easier to use due to never having to swing with him and always hitting something useful. Gishath can wiff but usually kills tables faster if it hits

[trail anvil]

yeah basically pantlaza comes in a lot earlier as a great value engine

[last glen]

I can see it
felt really good when drawn
I'll try him as the commander

[trail anvil]

the problem is that angels don't proc it so it's dead half the time

[gritty nest]

i feel like gishath will whiff a lot more in this deck than a pure dino deck

[last glen]

honestly he's been close to being cut
haste and high power is really what's keeping him in rn

[gritty nest]

hes really good in the command zone

but with the angels is whats holding him back from being a commander

[last glen]

It's late so I gotta 🛏️
but thanks for all the help and suggestions

[glad peak]

Pantlaza’s great because of food chain

[trail anvil]

man beating tamiyo in brawl is the best feeling. a 1-drop commander into 59 counterspells ain't it chief

[golden plover]

Yeah I'm convinced [[Arahbo, The First Fang]] is just one of the best cards in Foundations draft. 3 mana for 4/4 in 2 bodies that gets crazy if you get a couple other cats

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/fdn/2/arahbo-the-first-fang

Arahbo, the First Fang <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Cat Avatar
Other Cats you control get +1/+1.
Whenever Arahbo or another nontoken Cat you control enters, create a 1/1 white Cat creature token.
It's said all cats in the Multiverse trace their lineage back to him, from the meekest kitten to the mightiest lion.
2/2

[golden plover]

Every game I've played him in, I've won

[copper pecan]

thinking about the time i accidentally referred to chump blocking as "simp blocking"

[sleek ferry]

Simp blocking? @rigid scarab knows all about that

[rigid scarab]

?????????????????????????????

What’s this stray Im catching

[sleek ferry]

Idk, you were the only good candidate, Areo wouldn’t have been as funny

[trail anvil]

I think it's good value ig

[rigid scarab]

Areo would have been hilarious fym

[clever sun]

I don't know...

I think you overestimate Areo here

[rigid scarab]

And you underestimate me

[copper pecan]

ok 1/1 soldier token

whatever you say

[last glen]

Doing some solitaire tests with the commander deck
Deck right now feels pretty smooth
Probably not very powerful, but smooth by turn 3 or 4

[copper pecan]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948945461597831218/1310639757038063656/nvjfieo84bso.png?ex=6745f3e4&is=6744a264&hm=68802090025577dc69e153af07c26cbe0430c79816fbbf9eefb84a2d1da600af&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=476&height=662

new holiday promo card

[glad peak]

How do we get it?

[lusty trench]

It's a promo stores get

It's not something given to players

[golden plover]

They're usually like $500ish if you wanted it

[trail anvil]

I'm gonna freak out when I tap a land and egg nog materializes in front of me

[zinc shard]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-november-25-2024?utm_medium=playerinbox&utm_source=arena

Pioneer Masters spoilers

[twilit canyon]

bring to light is also in

[past socket]

More like Pogis amirite?

[zinc shard]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/mtgarena/pioneer-masters/card-image-gallery

Here's the image gallery

[sleek ferry]

daaaaaamn

they're going to make me play pioneer smh

[twilit canyon]

mtga team tricking hundreds of players into wasting their time with bad cards

[last glen]

let's goooo

[fallow citrus]

mtga will never get me with pioneer

[last glen]

haterade alert

[golden plover]

Pioneer is good, but most of these cards are completely irrelevant in it lol

I knew they were gonna throw the whole cycle of the gods and the Flipwalkers in mythic when exactly 1 of wachs sees play

Also the set symbol is bad lol. Looks like a condom

[sleek ferry]

what's wrong with condoms? you don't like safe sex or something

[golden plover]

They're fine, it just looks silly when it's supposed to be a telescope

Wait we're still gonna be missing 29 tournament pioneer cards? Why

[stark skiff]

No

[sleek ferry]

same

[stark skiff]

word

[glad peak]

Same I need more children

[stark skiff]

Here’s some new shit I got.

[past socket]

Horror!

[fallow citrus]

nah I just played the format on mtgo for a little bit playing greasefang and it just made me not find that format interesting

and then every good deck I see is just sleeper af

[copper pecan]

the way pioneer players kept saying that wotc should remove alchemy in favor of pioneer makes me never want to check out pioneer tbh

[trail anvil]

if toxic fan bases are how you judge something why are you playing magic to begin with

[copper pecan]

i stayed away from magic for years because of its playerbase tbh

[twilit canyon]

sta

[copper pecan]

pls no bully

[sleek ferry]

Bully him

Areo style

[past socket]

I love this forest so much

[sudden lava]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdP43WtaoAMMDUI?format=png&name=900x900

[trail anvil]

I love this art

[past socket]

Kinda tenpted to put Simic Ascendancy in Wise Mothman tbh

[golden plover]

Wait I just realized this art makes no fucking sense

There's no elves on Tarkir

Unless they're supposed to be Ravnican but randomly wearing Tarkir armor?

Or rather Abzan

[golden plover]

I just noticed they're wearing a Selesnya brooch, and the armor on the ground can't be Tarkir

But the elf's armor is very much Abzan. This is definitely art that either got changed last minute or is just tonally really wrong

[modern minnow]

just blame omenpaths

[golden plover]

Yeah that's my thought process. Still weird

[urban crane]

Do you pay the one?

[lusty trench]

[[force of vigor]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/164/force-of-vigor

Force of Vigor <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Instant
If it's not your turn, you may exile a green card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Destroy up to two target artifacts and/or enchantments.
The vines overgrew the construct, snapping gears and soaking up aether.

[urban crane]

Too bad I had two blue up so [[counter spell]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/114/counterspell

Counterspell <:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Counter target spell.

[golden plover]

Whoops guess you shouldn't have overextended

I'm sure in their 7 cards they could've killed one or both of the pieces but by letting them connect they lose

God I know they're fuming about that one. Had 7 cards in hand in Dimir and I topdecked game. They just had to hold up 4 mana to take the match

But they wanted to draw 6 cards instead of 3

[golden plover]

https://i.imgur.com/tMzmnJw.jpg

@lusty trench LMAO CONFIRMATION THE MANABASE IS GATES

God I need to see this list

[copper pecan]

i mean if i wanted to make a deck that had as many alt wincons as possible i'd probably put maze's end in there too

[lusty trench]

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-lateralus-parabol-third-eye-tool-gif-16499016

[golden plover]

This list is gonna be so ass

Gonna pay $150 for a bunch of cards that don't work

[rigid scarab]

The deck was doomed from the start

[golden plover]

For sure. But each new reveal is worse lol

[trail anvil]

I don't get the impression that this precon was ever good out the box, I think it's just a bunch of lairs packed into one

[golden plover]

It just seems so poorly thought out

[fallow citrus]

it seems about as casual as I expect all of these products to be

[urban crane]

I mean looking at the previous ones those were definitely better

[trail anvil]

..precons?

[glad peak]

This looks more casual than the precons they dump onto us every couple months

At least with those they sometimes accidentally give us a really good card

[trail anvil]

I think this deck is gonna have a lot of good cards, it's just not gonna play well. I'd just treat it as one massive secret lair

[golden plover]

At least with most precons you can play them out of the box, and they're $40

This is $150 for a bunch of random cards

[trail anvil]

this is $150 for a bunch of secret lairs

[golden plover]

I guess yeah, I guess it depends on if you want any of these alt wincons

[trail anvil]

like look at the arts they put in here and stop thinking of it as a cohesive deck cause it's not

it's only packaged as a deck to catch vulnerable newer players

[fallow citrus]

did they not do any good mastery orbs for foundations

I assume the good cards like llanowar elves are gems

[golden plover]

I mean they're alright cards in draft

And some like the black wrath aren't bad

But most aren't great

[trail anvil]

depends which format you're playing, I saw some good stuff in there but I'm a brawl player

[zinc shard]

https://youtu.be/S318WdrTiko?si=5I7OAVS4LBnUDkz-

Finally, Magic the way Richard Garfield intended

[trail anvil]

not including jlk is criminal

[gritty nest]

You mean hold $150 to not get the deck then watch people resell 20 of them for $400 each?

[trail anvil]

well sure

[zinc shard]

2 more wincons

[steady onyx]

@sleek ferry u got a budget control deck for me or nah

is control just expensive

no matter what

[sleek ferry]

Control is going to be expensive regardless

[steady onyx]

damnit

[twilit canyon]

is it in one ear out the other with u

or like what

[steady onyx]

yes

[last glen]

You can play something with a control gameplan
but if you're not playing the best in class cards
You'll be so far behind the eight ball with control

[golden plover]

I guess you can probably get the Azorious counterspell suite or the Dimir removal cards for cheap

But you need lands and a wincon too

[past socket]

Sultai my beloved

[golden plover]

And all those packages are not as cheap

[twilit canyon]

dimir is not very control-oriented even demons has a decently aggressive slant

[golden plover]

I mean they could grab like the counterspell and kill spells

But that's not really a deck without a wincon

[twilit canyon]

but thats still rather pricey actually

lands here are usually more expensive cus more rares

and then theres yeah lack of wincons

[past socket]

What is the most common orientation for Dimir?

[twilit canyon]

in standard? tempo

rn at least

historically its been a control color

rarely played though

mostly splashed with white or red

and a few times with green as midrange

[past socket]

At least familiar with the latter splash in green

[atomic harness]

Oh hey what set is this from?

[atomic harness]

Finally

[golden plover]

Pioneer Masters

[atomic harness]

neat

[last glen]

now I kinda wish there was a low stakes place to play commander

guess this is why they want to make Commander Arena

[twilit canyon]

commander is a low stakes place to play commander

[last glen]

man
just got run under by monored burn

[ornate cedar]

Monored is quite frustrating haha I haven't seen them too much on ladder yet, but I expect to run into them more soon now that I'm in gold

Still just collecting wins with Simic Dread, occasionally switching decks to do dailies

Currently I'm building monowhite cats because I like both the engine and cats in general lol

[steady onyx]

this deck suck holy

i just drew land after land after land

[twilit canyon]

flooding out happens to anyone

but a red deck with a bad mana base will feel it worse

[clever sun]

Misty if you can get Areo to mythic I'll send you $500

[twilit canyon]

i dont believe thats possible

up it to 1k and i'll do it tho

[sleek ferry]

I’ll do it for $500

[twilit canyon]

u cant get areo to mythic

its not u

its areo

[sleek ferry]

Areo actually listens to me, I can get him to mythic if I actually wanted to put in the effort

[clever sun]

Honestly as much as I believe you and Misty could get there, I don't know if Areo has it in him to grind Arena to Mythic

[sleek ferry]

If it clicks he does. Only reason I know is because at one point the man was playing DB for 8 hours a day. And that’s way more painful than playing mtga for 15 wins a day

[clever sun]

Playing DB for eight hours is honestly the reason he wouldn't be able to climb

[rigid scarab]

Do you think I can

[sleek ferry]

If I coach you? Yes. By yourself? Depends how high your drive to get better is

[steady onyx]

yay

gold!!!

people really suck against red aggro

[rigid scarab]

Bringing monored to bo1 is like bringing numeron to md ladder

[sleek ferry]

Mtga ranked doesn’t get remotely real until plat sadly

[clever sun]

Waiting for the wall to hit

[clever sun]

Yeah lol

Bronze to Plat is free

[steady onyx]

bet

what's the rank

[sleek ferry]

The common walls are usually Plat > Diamond 5-3 > Diamond 2-1 > Mythic into numbered mythic

[steady onyx]

like bronze silver gold plat diamond mythic?

[rigid scarab]

I think

[steady onyx]

ill get to hat too one

[twilit canyon]

ye

[steady onyx]

top

[rigid scarab]

I can grind to mythic on jund sac alone

[steady onyx]

i can do well on db

why not
mtga

[clever sun]

Different game and environment

[steady onyx]

db is just boring

it's never hard

just long and tedious

[clever sun]

Top of Mythic actually gets real rewards

[rigid scarab]

The people on mtga are older than 15

[steady onyx]

shoukd i just play red aggro?

i will

is the deck in shop wot to

worth to grab

it's like 1000 gems

[rigid scarab]

No

[steady onyx]

for the final missing prices i need

except slick shot

[sleek ferry]

You’ll have a rough time playing off meta unless jund sac has a specific advantage that you’re aware of vs meta decks sickle

My hardest climb to mythic was on mardu party, I spent like 10 days on Diamond 1

[rigid scarab]

RDW cruises you through low rank but can't climb the walls

[steady onyx]

whats rdw?

[rigid scarab]

Tell em thugs

[twilit canyon]

red deck wins

[rigid scarab]

wtf

[steady onyx]

??

why

why jot just call red aggro

smh

[twilit canyon]

its in the name

red deck wins

[steady onyx]

anyways play here i come

[sleek ferry]

This is actually good tbh. Mono red is probably one of the best ways for areo to learn the game

[rigid scarab]

How so

[sleek ferry]

Identifying red’s short comings at higher ranks and adapting accordingly is easier than other decks imo

[steady onyx]

BRO

I FUCKING HATE THIS GAME

[rigid scarab]

Yknow thugs

[steady onyx]

having to mulligan to a 5 card hand

[rigid scarab]

Maybe you're right

[steady onyx]

and it still being an ass hand

they played like ass and still won

thats aggravating

see they did the pump at wrong time i think

they shoukd have waited

so they can dodge the burst lighting

by pumping after I use

[fallow citrus]

are you doing bo1 ladder

[steady onyx]

yeah

i don't have enough wildcards

for a sideboard

annoyingly

[golden plover]

Does it have to be Aero or can it be his account?

I'll coach areo for $500, but I can get his account there for $250

[lusty trench]

I’ll coach him for free (he will be bound for bronze V)

[golden plover]

I consistently make mythic when I try, how hard can it be with no wildcards

(Hard)

[rigid scarab]

I can coach areo

It'll go great

[zinc shard]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/secret-lair-commander-deck-20-ways-to-win-full-decklist

[rigid scarab]

IT'S ASS 🔥 🔥 🔥

[zinc shard]

new art

they really gave us Monologue Tax over Smothering Tithe

[rigid scarab]

Smothering Tithe tanks in price due to ban speculation

real

[golden plover]

Damn that's so much worse than expected holy shit

[rigid scarab]

We could afford to put Reflecting Pool in the deck

[golden plover]

Love that there's not a single other shrine in the deck

[rigid scarab]

But we could only do 1 Bondland

I get majority of the deck is G/W

But sheesh

The only way we can achieve Liliana's Contract is with Maskwood Nexus

Holy shit

[lusty trench]

This is gonna be money

[golden plover]

[[Rite of Replication]] is the only way to proc Biovisionary

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/fdn/711/rite-of-replication

Rite of Replication <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Sorcery
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Create a token that's a copy of target creature. If this spell was kicked, create five of those tokens instead.

[golden plover]

And you have to kick it

[rigid scarab]

This is a glorified strictly worse Promise of Power

[lusty trench]

Spell book jimmy wong soft confirmed for secret lair in December

[golden plover]

What the fuck is [[Yahenni]] doing in here?

[lost widget]

Multiple cards match “Yahenni”, can you be more specific?

[golden plover]

[[Yahenni, Undying]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/214/yahenni-undying-partisan

Yahenni, Undying Partisan <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Aetherborn Vampire
Haste
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Yahenni, Undying Partisan.
Sacrifice another creature: Yahenni gains indestructible until end of turn.
"The time for subtlety is over, darling."
2/2