i mean yeah
#Magic the Gathering
glad peak
It’d be a shame if stax pieces were relegated to only 3+ because genuinely being able to play around them is interesting
lusty trench
Fetchlands and shocks at 4
glad peak
Shocks are probably able to stay at 2
sudden lava
golden plover
Bracket 0 is confirmed for Sol Ring
glad peak
Lands are going to be interesting to rank
The ease of colors will change a lot of things about how each bracket would play
glad peak
As such, blood moon in bracket 1
steady onyx
a lot of monocolor decks may become popular for bracket 1 play
glad peak
Blood moon doesn’t hurt bracket 1 and 2 decks much (probably) and very much punish bracket 3 and 4 
steady onyx
while higher up you bc er more multicolor decks
last glen
So
Which bracket will be the cEDH standard
twilit canyon
3 and 4 have promise yeah
trail anvil
I don't really see the point in putting lands in any bracket tbh. it increases consistency but not power. other than true duals since they are very unaffordable
actually I should say dual lands*. lands like glacial chasm and field of the dead very much matter lol
sleek ferry
wdym, smogon has managed to make terrible ban decisions throughout their lifespan, why cant wotc
golden plover
wdym, smogon has managed to make terrible ban decisions throughout their lifespa...
I mean, yeah. But also there's a big difference between ranking like 300 things and 20,000
And lately, Smogon bans have been overall very good
The Kyurem ban was the right move
golden plover
Palafin, Iron Bundle (I miss him RIP), Baxcalibur, terrapagos, archaludon, flutter mane, ogerpon, annihilape, chien-pao, chi-yu, regieleki, urshifu, and Kyurem being banned was all the correct move
There's still an argument for kingambit and goldengho (I'd like the see him gone), but the OU bans have been healthy
Kyurem fucking sucked to play against
Guess the set or you lose was not fun
sleek ferry
Twitter
twilit canyon
honestly was a big fan of all they said but i was passively listening at work
im glad cedh is getting real recognition and a spot on the table
stark skiff
We do?
sleek ferry
I’ve been said this is a net positive (I’m sorry that the RC had to go through what they had to go through though)
copper pecan
i keep seeing people say that the sky is falling but idk what wotc could do that would really make the format worse
the rules committee already barely ever banned anything, even stuff like oracle which was causing obvious problems
zinc shard
I like the brackets idea, just gotta see how well they can manage it
twilit canyon
i keep seeing people say that the sky is falling but idk what wotc could do that...
they are afraid of bans for profit or unbans for the same reason
which is stupid
because wotc knows better than to mess with a format too much
sleek ferry
They’re afraid of us going full Yugioh
Bans to promote new product
Which yeah, mtg has never been about that
golden plover
Bans to promote new product
I mean, they just use new set powercreep to do that
copper pecan
also wotc banned nadu faster than the rules committee did
golden plover
Yeah true
They should print [[Zuran Orb]] and [[Flagstones of Trokair]] into historic for my new combo deck
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Land
: Add 
.
When Flagstones of Trokair is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may search your library for a Plains card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
Dust-spiked winds eroded the stones, but the ground where they had stood still holds power.
copper pecan
god i just remembered the first chapter of the duel masters manga has the main character do the zuran orb balance combo
why did they do that
"buy our game where you can get locked out from playing by stupid bullshit"
trail anvil
I'd really like flagstones for abzan
trail anvil
https://x.com/saffronolive/status/1841199177533177976?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhi...
every time I read "the wotc and RC reached this conclusion together" I read "the wotc and RC minus Olivia"
steady onyx
is there a fund eck I can build on arena?
trail anvil
I'd say there are many
steady onyx
this is what I have built so far
I used quite a bit of my wildcards on the doll deck
but i think i have a couple mythics/rares already I could build deck with
idk
trail anvil
what did rares/mythics did you pull in duskmourn
steady onyx
stark skiff
trail anvil
enduring innocence works as a nice draw engine for boros
steady onyx
enduring innocence works as a nice draw engine for boros
what other boros decks could I play?
trail anvil
also you should probably plug in that ^ code for a free pack
you could work towards boros midrange with overlords, but that'll take 8 mythics if you craft every one of them
steady onyx
got 2 more rares
trail anvil
split up is a nice potentially one sided board wipe
really nice for boros midrange
I'd craft [[overlord of the mistmoors]] first probably
lost widgetBOT
Enchantment Creature — Avatar Horror
Impending 4—
(If you cast this spell for its impending cost, it enters with four time counters and isn't a creature until the last is removed. At the beginning of your end step, remove a time counter from it.)
Whenever Overlord of the Mistmoors enters or attacks, create two 2/1 white Insect creature tokens with flying.
6/6
steady onyx
i fucked up :(
i should have dropped caudlron earlier
so they didnt get to delrioum
sudden lava
for a sec I was like what the heck happened to Jace's body 
steady onyx
I'd craft [[overlord of the mistmoors]] first probably
do I just craft now
and try to buiild smt
or wait
or idk
golden plover
Find a deck you really wanna play first
Then craft the cards to make the deck
Don't just craft random cards
twilit canyon
kill that mouse
steady onyx
i cant
i tried using hard hitting question
but they had a monsterous rage
to chain
i can just deathtoguh
nvm
im fucked
is mono red aggro cheap
?
or do u need a lot of rare/mythic
last glen
Mono red aggro/burn is the stereotypical cheap deck that wins enough
fallow citrus
it should be cheap yeah
sleek ferry
kill that mouse
Ren swears the mouse is the most broken thing ever made
Man has ptsd without even playing the game
Smh
twilit canyon
gritty nest
I killed everyone in my table with poison counters
My deck is not about poison counters
My commander was Bumbleflower
trail anvil
did you use that squirrel and people got carried away?
trail anvil
Ren swears the mouse is the most broken thing ever made
you could argue about any number of things in that deck but it just seems 2fast4me. I could run a million removal pieces but then I feel like I eat shit to midrange, idk
gritty nest
did you use that squirrel and people got carried away?
Someone else had a dude that kept giving everyone treasures
trail anvil
fun lol
trail anvil
you could argue about any number of things in that deck but it just seems 2fast4...
also gruul was already a good deck pre-duskmourn
rigid scarab
Intreresting to see WOTC directly call Arcane Signet a mistake
zinc shard
I remember it was the main selling point of physical Brawl decks
That was a strange time
trail anvil
it doesn't seem that bad to me tbh
twilit canyon
i do think its nice of wotc to be putting their foot down on super generic cards that go in every deck
trail anvil
you mean like mana rocks? cause it seems like they wanna encourage cheap (monetarily) removal like swords
I feel like mana rocks that aren't fast mana are actually nice cause they never seem to be best in slot, but a decent option for inclusion is you don't have much else
twilit canyon
they are generic slots that are auto-includes in most decks thats what they will seemingly not wanna push anymore
trail anvil
are we just saying stuff like signet or the worse mana rocks too
copper pecan
i remember gavin saying a while back that he regretted designing arcane signet
mainly because it's an autoinclude in almost everything
every new autoinclude makes the problem of autoincludes worse by further reducing the space for creative deckbuilding
twilit canyon
are we just saying stuff like signet or the worse mana rocks too
all generic cards. rocks are by far the most affected
sleek ferry
Idt there’s anything wrong with having a few staples, arcane signet in particular is something I think would be on the lower end of my complain list
I would high key complain about command tower before signet
copper pecan
command tower is at least only good in multicolor decks
arcane signet you run in everything that isn't completely colorless
sleek ferry
I mean idk about everybody else but I don’t play signet in mono colored/colorless
copper pecan
you probably should tbh
the two color signets are good and arcane signet is better than all of those
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
I guess cause it's a creature with a decent effect but probably isn't gonna take over the game on its own?
sleek ferry
The titans being tier 1 seems fine? But also I wouldn’t read into the examples much
This system is probably far far away
atomic harness
Prime time is locked behind G so it's fine 
copper pecan
grave titan is just a big bungus that makes some small bungi
sleek ferry
Sun Titan is also like a staple of casual edh
copper pecan
wait hold on i just had a good idea for a design
Sus Titan 4RR
Creature - Giant
When this creature enters or attacks, suspect up to one target creature.
6/6
sleek ferry
wonder where he'll end up in
Tier 3 seems appropriate
I also assume most games will be played on tier 3
atomic harness
I'm thinking 2 since thalia is 2
copper pecan
is tier 3 gonna be the ou of edh
sleek ferry
Tier 3 should be high powered yeah
copper pecan
can't believe we need to run mass landorus destruction in ou
trail anvil
esper sentinel is one of those cards you should just put in a ton of white decks I feel like
thalia is way more creature-centric
atomic harness
Thank you fuwaloss ukraine
trail anvil
I'd vote for 3 tbh
sleek ferry
Eh, Thalia herself has seen cedh play also
And she can fuck up a table
So sentinel being tier 2 would work
Would be interesting to see where you put rhystic study and the like though
trail anvil
see like
rhystic is in that weird spot where if everyone pays their taxes at a casual table it's fine, but they gotta pay their taxes
I could see wizards putting that at 3 just cause casual commander pods are dirty little tax dodgers
sleek ferry
The thing with rhystic study is, I’m not paying the tax if I feel like I can win on top of the rhystic study player
I’m just going to make sure to accelerate myself
trail anvil
oh for sure. getting one player ahead is fine if you're confident you can fuck them up
or if benefiting them actually benefits you
remora is another weird one
sleek ferry
Yeah I think I agree with Misty
twilit canyon
stc of course
sleek ferry
Ad naus, demonic consultation tier 3?
trail anvil
could you make an argument for ad naus in 4 or
trail anvil
but my question to you is do you think they're gonna use them more as deckbuilding guidelines or power guidelines
twilit canyon
I’ve never seen ad naus resolve outside cedh
looks like someone doesnt play vs legacy ant or the old modern naus decks
twilit canyon
but my question to you is do you think they're gonna use them more as deckbuildi...
deckbuilding seems to be
trail anvil
hence why I would assume 4 over 3
drannith magistrate seems like more of a cedh card to me too but I guess you could run it in high powered casual as stax? just seems wonky to me
twilit canyon
actually to specify
bc of how they placed magistrate
they are going by card power alone
trail anvil
ah yeah true
sleek ferry
drannith magistrate seems like more of a cedh card to me too but I *guess* you c...
I’m ngl, forcing magistrate into a lower tier is a good thing
atomic harness
twilit canyon
yawg's will is in 4
trail anvil
I think there's a legitimate argument for breach in casual edh if you're playing storm
rigid scarab
Did you guys here of a potential digital system they're running
Literally plug your deck into it and they tell you its bracket
atomic harness
sleek ferry
I don’t want to be that guy, but casual commander players should run more removal than they do, it’s funner for the entire table
trail anvil
I’m ngl, forcing magistrate into a lower tier is a good thing
I mean you can run magistrate at a high power casual table, it's just weirdge to me
rigid scarab
I'd imagine it's powered by ai
twilit canyon
yawg will just says "go off i guess" vs breach needing a dedicated combo line
atomic harness
Finally my tier 1 deck will be good
sleek ferry
So putting drannith magistrate at a lower tier encourages that
trail anvil
I just wouldn't because people would hate me for it lmao
sleek ferry
Finally my tier 1 deck will be good
Buddy I’ve seen urza’s saga in your deck
rigid scarab
So putting drannith magistrate at a lower tier encourages that
I mean there are gonna be the scenarios where simply no one draws removal
sleek ferry
Sure
rigid scarab
I think sticking turn 2 must-kills into those brackets will just encourage ubiquity in deckbuilding
Which is exactly what they dont want to do
trail anvil
Buddy I’ve seen urza’s saga in your deck
3?
rigid scarab
If you dont wanna lose to those turn 2 must-kills you need a very efficient like 15 card removal engine
atomic harness
Buddy I’ve seen urza’s saga in your deck
Son it's just there to make construct tokens 
dont worry about it
I like construct tokens 
trail anvil
just blink urza /s
atomic harness
Also uhh 3
twilit canyon
ren when he makes 2 0/0 artifact creature golems with "my power and toughness are equal to the number of artifacts you control"
sleek ferry
Urza’s saga is a 2 arguably
rigid scarab
ren when he makes 2 0/0 artifact creature golems with "my power and toughness ar...
"My power and toughness"
Where did you pull the LoR card
sleek ferry
It searches the mascot of the format, sol ring
twilit canyon
Where did you pull the LoR card
when the game died
atomic harness
https://tenor.com/view/pte-mass-production-factory-gif-17858009
so true bestie
trail anvil
Urza’s saga is a 2 arguably
I disagree but idk
rigid scarab
Urza’s saga is a 2 arguably
I disagree
rigid scarab
You could honestly argue Urza's Saga is just as much a staple as signet and sol ring
sleek ferry
Idt urza’s saga does fundamentally gross things unless you build your deck in that way
trail anvil
I just think of it as a delayed ancient tomb. speaking of ancient tomb, also 3
atomic harness
tomb is more egregious for sure
rigid scarab
Are fetches 3
Of all the "classic" lands
I think fetches are the biggest argument to not be in 1 or 2
twilit canyon
2
trail anvil
fetches are weird to me cause they provide a shit ton of consistency if you have surveil lands and shocks but like
trail anvil
I'd lowkey put og duals at 4 because of that price point lol
to me cedh is the only justifiable place for them
rigid scarab
A card being expensive shouldn't make it automatically 4
Like
Doubling Season isnt a 4
trail anvil
doubling season is not hundreds of dollars
atomic harness
Doubling is pretty cheeks my son
rigid scarab
One Ring isn't 4
trail anvil
and yeah it's pretty cheeks
atomic harness
But duals are also beyond a league of their own
trail anvil
one ring is a definite 3 minimum
sleek ferry
Doubling season is just worse parallel lives
atomic harness
it's fine to put them at 4
trail anvil
and also still not hundreds
rigid scarab
Timetwister isn't 4
trail anvil
do people actually play timetwister
atomic harness
sickler this isnt the hill to die on
rigid scarab
I'm just saying price isn't the only factor
An OG dual in a vacuum implies nothing about the deck
sleek ferry
Price shouldn’t matter in a proxy friendly format
Saying all that
Og duals are 2-3
twilit canyon
I'm just saying price isn't the only factor
if time twister doesnt make it to bracket 4, the card may fall off the power 9 list
rigid scarab
Timetwister is the weird cousin of power 9
rigid scarab
Where would most wheel effects go anyway
trail anvil
2 mostly I imagine
sleek ferry
Bowmasters 3
atomic harness
tibalt's trickery where 
trail anvil
bowmasters isn't a wheel eff though, it's a wheel synergy
sleek ferry
Yea ik I just thought of it
trail anvil
I think drannith and thalia were meant to demonstrate that yeah
atomic harness
Word me fuwhugs
sleek ferry
Idt stax should fundamentally be high
atomic harness
It should be low stax is pretty washed nowadays
and most ppl gang up on the staxer
sleek ferry
If people want to make themselves the arch nemesis at low power tables, they have every right to
trail anvil
I get the impression that they want bracket 1 to be the most inviting for players, even accommodating people who complain about stax all day
rigid scarab
"It makes you archenemy" isn't a good excuse
For a card not to be considered strong
sleek ferry
I would put most stax at 2
atomic harness
Thank you son
sleek ferry
Blood moon and the like at 3
trail anvil
agreed
sleek ferry
Idt any at 4
rigid scarab
Yeah stax is variable
atomic harness
some are soft some are game ending
trail anvil
stasis and winter orb at 4 sounds justifiable lol
rigid scarab
Where does Chaos go
trail anvil
less because of stax per se and more due to "don't touch my lands" going with MLD
atomic harness
Holy...
trail anvil
I feel like chaos is more annoying with locks than it is on its own
rigid scarab
I feel like chaos is more annoying with locks than it is on its own
Same can mostly be said for MLD
rigid scarab
Holy...
Crazy how Rhystic would be significantly worse if it just read "Spells your opponents cast cost 1 more"
sleek ferry
Trinisphere is better than winter orb in high powered/cedh, and I would put it at 3, therefore winter orb is a 3 also
trail anvil
the most common argument I've heard about MLD is that it's fine as a finisher, but it's bad when people are bad and the game drags on after
atomic harness
sleek ferry
Narset is a 2
rigid scarab
Narset is fine if not paired with wheels
atomic harness
the most common argument I've heard about MLD is that it's fine as a finisher, b...
this is why we use indestructible lands baybeee
trail anvil
ehhhh
rigid scarab
Wheels are something by themselves
atomic harness
Also keep narset at 2 but narset and wheel is probably 3/4
like how the leddit post said thoracle consult was 4
trail anvil
I think there are arguments that narset would go into 3 alongside drannith, depending on how much you think edh players like to draw
sleek ferry
Thoracle at 4 kinda just makes a clear distinction tbh
atomic harness
Sigh little fuwaloss Im the only one who should draw more than 1 card
trail anvil
atomic harness
rigid scarab
I think there are arguments that narset would go into 3 alongside drannith, depe...
Difference between "I'm preventing you from going off" and "I'm not letting you play anymore"
Narset is the first one
trail anvil
what do you consider [[dovescape]] as, both in terms of bracket and categorizing it otherwise
lost widgetBOT
Enchantment
(
can be paid with either or 
.)
Whenever a player casts a noncreature spell, counter that spell. That player creates X 1/1 white and blue Bird creature tokens with flying, where X is the spell's mana value.
rigid scarab
Narset + Wheel is the second
trail anvil
I feel like the wheel combo is what pushes her into 3
rigid scarab
Then put wheels at 3
trail anvil
like without that I think she'd just be a slight annoyance
sleek ferry
My votes for 4 would be thoracle, LED as obvious ones
atomic harness
I think so yeah
trail anvil
why do you wanna put wheels instead of narset at 3
rigid scarab
Bc Narset by herself is whatever
atomic harness
because I want narset at 2 
trail anvil
do we just hate xyris/nekusar
atomic harness
uhh how do we feel about color hoses
rigid scarab
2
atomic harness
Holy...
trail anvil
iona unbanned and at 4
rigid scarab
They only get good at cedh level
trail anvil
are there any notable color hosers outside of cedh
atomic harness
why did they print so much mld
sleek ferry
Nobody runs mass land destruction in cedh
trail anvil
not MLD, I was thinking like veil of summer
rigid scarab
Nobody runs mass land destruction in cedh
Oh I meant color hoses as in REB
atomic harness
Oh I think REB/BEB and the blasts are fine
trail anvil
REB is if you have a blue heavy locals and are sick of your stuff eating counters lol
sleek ferry
Magus of the moon/harbringer?
atomic harness
think 3?
trail anvil
same as moon
sleek ferry
Also, what about the free spells from Ikoria commander cycle
trail anvil
I feel like rollick and the blue one carry it
atomic harness
Rollick is cute
rigid scarab
I feel like rollick and the blue one carry it
Fierce Guardianship
trail anvil
I could see caverns at 4 but idk
yeah that one
where would you put mystical tutor? 3?
and anything in the camp like sylvan tutor too
sleek ferry
Gemstone I want to say is a 2, just because I could see casual players wanting to sometimes just have that cool extra mana
rigid scarab
Gemstone I want to say is a 2, just because I could see casual players wanting t...
Oh shit put mana vault to 2
sleek ferry
Attractions are unranked, they’re only good in Magda
rigid scarab
Also unban crypt and put it to 2
atomic harness
Sigh dont say that word...
sleek ferry
I mean mana vault itself is just a worse sol ring if you have no synergies with it
trail anvil
also would spellseeker be a 2?
rigid scarab
I think expensive tutors are 2
1 mana instant speed tutors are 3
Vamp and Dem tutor are 4
trail anvil
what about gamble?
trail anvil
and where would you put something like reckless handling too
sleek ferry
There’s a deck that’s arguably at best a 2 that runs grim monolith, mana vault etc, and the deck is still ass
trail anvil
yeah ig
rigid scarab
There’s a deck that’s arguably at best a 2 that runs grim monolith, mana vault e...
I mean that's the problem with the bracket system
sleek ferry
What’s the name of that colorless creature that’s in every precon
trail anvil
There’s a deck that’s arguably at best a 2 that runs grim monolith, mana vault e...
why does this matter ever, that's like saying nadu is okay if you run him with vanillas
sleek ferry
And has a red ability
rigid scarab
I could be playing a 2012 precon but it's a 4 because it has thoracle
atomic harness
why does this matter ever, that's like saying nadu is okay if you run him with ...
Thank you fuwaloss
trail anvil
red ability?
sleek ferry
Because at 2, you’re not assuming mass untap mana vault/grim monolith loops
rigid scarab
Why not
trail anvil
I'm confused, is running grim monolith core to your bracket 2 deck
rigid scarab
If the cards for the loop are legal why not use them
We can't just put obviously easily broken cards in lower brackets because they're not as good in casual decks
atomic harness
sleek ferry
But like, mana vault/grim monolith are just worse sol rings is my point
atomic harness
just treat sol ring as the exception bc thats what they said so
trail anvil
nah that's crazy
atomic harness
and not compare other cards to it
otherwise we have stuff like ancient tomb is just worse sol ring etc
trail anvil
anyways yeah sol ring is the big exception cause someone decided along the way to print it everywhere
"why is sol ring bracket 1" because preconstructed decks have it
atomic harness
They put it at bracket 0 
sleek ferry
I mean, idt ancient tomb is that good either
If I had to put it somewhere I would put it at 2
rigid scarab
Do you think every mana generator is no more than 2
sleek ferry
But ancient tomb is literally not played in cedh, so it’s not a 4
rigid scarab
But ancient tomb is literally not played in cedh, so it’s not a 4
They said cedh is a theoretical "bracket 5"
sleek ferry
That’s not what they said is it? I thought they said they’re not locked into 4 and would expand to 5 if it made sense
rigid scarab
But I'm saying that bracket 4 is not automatically just for cedh
Otherwise there would be zero bracket 4 cards
sleek ferry
I mean, putting 1 mana tutors as bracket 4 makes sense
trail anvil
whoops wrong reply
trail anvil
But ancient tomb is literally not played in cedh, so it’s not a 4
didn't I say a 3 for this
yeah I did
sleek ferry
Idk, I have a hard time putting lands outside of OG duals higher than 2
gritty nest
have any of you played the jump scare precon?
sleek ferry
Like let’s say hypothetically, we break the tiers into turn counts
Tier 4 - average 3-4 full turn cycles (cedh will probably be closer to 4-5 post the changes)
Tier 3 - average 5-7 full turn cycles
Tier 2 - average 7-9 full turn cycles
Tier 1 - average 9-12 full turn cycles
That’s how I’m looking at it
trail anvil
ok lol
glad peak
I don’t expect the bracket system to be stable until a couple years unless they have the team working on overtime
Because even if they’re only addressing the most egregious cards, it’s a ton to go through
But I’m assuming the reason why grave titan was the example for bracket 1 was because it’s one of those cards some YouTubers were very down or up on lol
stark skiff
huh when did Dockside Borderless Foil go back up? Its back to 90 lol
glad peak
People are speccing on it to get unbanned because of brackets
stark skiff
huh time to sell mine in that case
sudden lava
So worked out the issue (it was charging this precon to an old credit card) and the delay has been solved by the help of someone at amazon named pushpa
golden plover
Okay this deck feels kinda real but it's really "fair"
I feel like it's missing something
gritty nest
Okay this deck feels kinda real but it's really "fair"
What deck?
golden plover
@gritty nest Esper Eye
gritty nest
Ah
golden plover
The idea is either you drop an eye on t2-3 or outgrind them
It seems good rn because of the format shakeup
Outgrinds Phoenix and Nykthos
Can graveyard hate Phoenix and Jund
And can play under high noon (which I feel like is gonna be a bar to beat moving forward)
Debating [[Chart a Course]] or [[Faithful Mending]] as more draws
lost widgetBOT
Instant
You gain 2 life, draw two cards, then discard two cards.
Flashback 
(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
"What has been looted can be restored. The church lives on within us."
gritty nest
So I’ve tried miracle worker and jump scare
Zimone is definitely interesting take on landfall
And aminatou seems jank out the box tbh
lusty trench
And aminatou seems jank out the box tbh
She is just jank
I physically cannot find a good use for her ability due to how delayed enchantment effects usually are
The cost reduction doesn’t matter if it’s basically all you’re doing on a turn anyway
gritty nest
My friend built it as pillow fort and it’s kinda dumb
ornate cedar
So I’ve tried miracle worker and jump scare
Yeah, Zimone is ready to go out of the box, Aminatou desperately needs upgrades
For a deck based around miracle, they don’t give you a lot of good 4+ mana enchantments
You also have to rely on things that manipulate your top decking like Scry and Surveil, which not many cards have as well
Maybe you could make a better deck with Master of Keys, but not a lot of cards benefit from being in the graveyard either
I think it may have good potential but yeah out of the box it’s pretty janky
Jump Scare is incredible though. Easily what I’m gonna take for the EDH event before Halloween
sleek ferry
good buy
lusty trench
If it hasn’t already shipped you’re likely gonna get hit by the tcg player special
gritty nest
It’s shipped
ornate cedar
I just checked the card
I understand why. It’s a great card and the full art looks amazing
Ooh it would also go great in a Zimone deck
trail anvil
nice 👌
lusty trench
It’s shipped
ornate cedar
Bought a bundle from Target because I have no self control
Pulled this card. This card is GGs, especially if you can tutor it
copper pecan
it's not as good as it sounds
ornate cedar
True, they can just block it
copper pecan
2 turns is a long time to wait for it to do stuff again
the game could be over by then
great in limited though
ornate cedar
I see, so it would be better in Standard?
copper pecan
probably
ornate cedar
Because then you can have multiple
Stun in Magic lol nice
Also, Aminatou can technically use miracle on this since it’s an enchantment
And any other enchantment creatures
Maybe a good strategy is to replace some of the normal creatures with enchantment creatures
Final photo, I didn’t realize that play boosters contained showcases, I thought they were only in collector’s boosters
ornate cedar
The normal ones were also $30 so I just bit the bullet and bought the borderless for the same price. Clearly I missed the window to get it for cheap, but oh well. It’s a damn good card so it makes sense why it went up in price.
Also the full art lands for this set look incredible oh my god
Might have to buy some in bulk
golden plover
great in limited though
Honestly it's ass in limited too
You just chump it every turn until the game is over
Take 2 on this
This still feels off
I don't love Skyclave in this, but we can't run Torch the Tower
twilit canyon
thats bc this isnt a format that can play [[unearth]] so this list is basically just worse phoenix
lost widgetBOT
Sorcery
Return target creature card with mana value 3 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
No matter how deep you bury it, some evil refuses to stay dead.
golden plover
The idea is that it shuts down Phoenix, doesn't care about it's graveyard as much, and can play under high noon
In theory, this wins most of the popular matchups rn
My only concern is that it doesn't feel like it has enough draw
That and that I'd rather Skyclave be Torch
ornate cedar
Is Phoenix relevant in Standard? I thought that was a Pioneer deck
I genuinely don’t know
twilit canyon
phoenix isnt legal in standard
twilit canyon
i think bc u cant play grixis, your deck is significantly worse tho
golden plover
I mean this could be Grixis
But then the question is why is it not just phoenix
The reason this isn't Phoenix is to play through both Phoenix and High Noon
twilit canyon
but this doesnt play through that well
golden plover
In theory this deck fits an opening the meta has rn and can win most matchups
golden plover
It's gonna take playing with ratios and stuff
Yeah, I wasn't originally on shredder
Was on 2 get lost, 2 LoTV
The thing is that LoTV is kinda not a good card rn
Could try 2 shredder, 2 get lost?
twilit canyon
i think shelly doesnt fit here
golden plover
And we side the shredders out for something like sunfall or dovin's veto into caretaker's
twilit canyon
its just quality but not synergy and this deck wants the synergy
golden plover
Yeah Shelly is kinda "this hits both Phoenix and caretaker's" and feels good to flip off eye
But I'm not sure that justifies her being in the slot
This is a deck that feels like it should be crazy on paper
Wins all 3 primary matchups in the format
The issue is finding the version of it that's strong in practice
ornate cedar
How does one play Pioneer on Arena? Is it just another game mode?
golden plover
It's explorer because it's missing like 10 cards
But yeah, it should be in your options
I do almost wish we could splash red for fable and high noon
But I don't think we wanna be in 4c
The 4c Omnath deck is very greedy
ornate cedar
Oh fuck yeah
I didn’t know you could play alternate formats on Arena
I thought it was just standard ladder like MD
golden plover
Also, UW control in pioneer is coping so hard rn
Tell me why that deck is on [[Strict Proctor]] for [[Lotus Field]]?
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Creature — Spirit Cleric
Flying
Whenever a permanent entering causes a triggered ability to trigger, counter that ability unless its controller pays .
"You might believe being dead for centuries has made me more lenient. I think you'll find the opposite to be true."
1/3
Land
Hexproof
Lotus Field enters tapped.
When Lotus Field enters, sacrifice two lands.
: Add three mana of any one color.
last glen
There's a ladder for all the major formats on Arena
golden plover
This is not a real play
last glen
look if UW Control is bad
I'm a happy man
twilit canyon
they get to play field for free
ornate cedar
There's a ladder for all the major formats on Arena
Wait, you mean there’s even more formats?
Is there commander?
last glen
Not commander
We do not have the technology
ornate cedar
Darn
last glen
But they have a highlander 1v1 format that's supposed to be close enough
ornate cedar
Arena sounds cool af
twilit canyon
Not commander
We do not have the technology
the technology is there in 2025
ornate cedar
I should log in today and actually do some of the starter deck challenges
twilit canyon
confirmed
ornate cedar
Oh yeah, now that WOTC technically owns commander
last glen
the technology is there in 2025
Oh?
ornate cedar
People bad mouth WOTC, but they’re saints compared to Konami
Minus the thing with the Pinkertons
trail anvil
wait confirmed? oh shit when?
twilit canyon
a long while ago
its been more than a few months
we are getting commander on arena next year
or at least
let me temper the expectations
the commander 4 player ruleset
rigid scarab
People bad mouth WOTC, but they’re saints compared to Konami
Mmmmmm I wouldn't be so quick to pull the trigger
I can list off a lot of iconic WOTC fuck ups
Say what you will about Konami but imagine if their quarter century celebration charged you $1000 for proxies
ornate cedar
Say what you will about Konami but imagine if their quarter century celebration ...
Yeah fuck that
ornate cedar
Sure, there are probably plenty of examples I’m ignorant to
Oh yeah the power 9 is what you’re referring to right?
rigid scarab
It's a long list of old cards that WOTC told everyone they are never reprinting
ornate cedar
Ohh, so they’re expensive
clever sun
It isn't that long in the grand scheme of things
rigid scarab
But some of those cards
clever sun
But it is a list of cards who are promised to never reprint
rigid scarab
If they were reprinted and accessible
clever sun
Generally, these cards are just unplayable in all formats
rigid scarab
Would be autoincludes in every deck/banned immediately
It's part of the reason why Legacy is turbo expensive
clever sun
Because of legality/power level
rigid scarab
And why cEDH is so proxy friendly
fallow citrus
I could probably buy a playable legacy deck right now
clever sun
$36k-$50k decks
fallow citrus
I'm never playing vintage irl
clever sun
Despite my spendings and my six figure paycheck, Vintage is unreasonably expensive for me
I own RL cards. I cannot play no-proxy Vintage
fallow citrus
vintage is just ridiculously priced
a lot of those decks cost more than I earn in a year
copper pecan
vintage is a dead format
fallow citrus
it's so cheap it's almost a rip-off
and yeah vintage is pretty much an online only format for that reason
although you could probably find some shops that have a community for it it won't be common
clever sun
I can play paper Vintage with about twelve people when my usual FNM is around 60 people sometimes 80
And it's proxy friendly
fallow citrus
sleek ferry
rare marisol sighting
clever sun
I'm busy
golden plover
you dont play strict proctor for field
Is it for cat then?
All the Azorious Control decks I'm seeing main proctor
And it's mostly for field from what I've seen
It just feels like a bad play to main imo
twilit canyon
thats why they dont main the card
idt they play the card
lotus control plays it to play their own field
but lotus control is bad bc that enables hidden strings
gilded glade
golden plover
Nah they absolutely main it
But part of the reason they're doing it is for Tef 5
They get to untap 6
And can [[Discontinuity]] you in your turn
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Instant
During your turn, this spell costs less to cast.
End the turn. (Exile all spells and abilities from the stack, including this card. The player whose turn it is discards down to their maximum hand size. Damage wears off, and "this turn" and "until end of turn" effects end.)
clever sun
I'm pretty sure Misty is right that it's not the deck to play. Maybe on Arena without Hidden Strings.
twilit canyon
yea this is the deck i mean
its really not great
imagine giving lotus field free entry?
golden plover
It's got some small league success so I'm seeing it pop up now
I think it's probably because Field Combo is falling off rn
So they're not competing with the opponent's lotus field
twilit canyon
if this gets popular they are gonna get farmed by lotus
golden plover
Oh 100%
It'll probably come and go based on how good Lotus is
Since rn lotus is less good, the deck is stronger
But if this gets popular, lotus comes back into play
I guess the two will keep each other in check
fallow citrus
let me just find the original post and delete it so then it isn't a repost
trail anvil
good idea
gritty nest
I’m debating on turning Zimone into Kadena now, or after I’ve gotten to play it a few times as the precon. I got the deck to turn it into Kadena though
golden plover
Okay I'm actually 4-0 in testing with eyeball turbo
It just devours Phoenix and Caretaker's
last glen
Eyeball turbo?
zinc shard
trail anvil
I fuckin love edh, I got to [[sunken palace]] a [[mnemonic deluge]]
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Land — Cave
Sunken Palace enters tapped.
: Add .
, , Exile seven cards from your graveyard: Add . When you spend this mana to cast a spell or activate an ability, copy that spell or ability. You may choose new targets for the copy. (Mana abilities can't be copied.)
trail anvil
then I copied resculpt and [[lost turn]] 3 times each
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trail anvil
[[wrong turn]]
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trail anvil
eluge is everything I've wanted it to be, now to invest more money into it
stark skiff
Eluge can be disgusting yeah
trail anvil
I've tried to avoid a bunch of stuff like mass manip and extra turn spells to lower the saltiness and it seems successful so far
but then again I was playing in a pod with a clear archvillain
trail anvil
another highlight was using mystic reflection to make someone's skrelv turn into a dragon, exiling the original dragon with regular removal, then giving the original player back his dragon with the first cast of wrong turn 
rigid scarab
Any suggestions for a value.dek that can work in mid power tables
golden plover
I'm sick of the Rakdos mouse deck. I've either gotta hit them with a removal spell every turn until they run out of hand or lose
I dunno how you'd hit it too, since it's so many parts that are fair on their own
But it's annoying as hell to play against it
I guess the "hit" is the Leyline, but the deck doesn't really need it
They still get to kill you t4 without it if you don't open 3 fatal pushes
The good lists aren't even on Leyline. Its just the critical mass of 1-2 drops that can swing at you for 7 and then get flung for game
fallow citrus
what format is this deck in
modern minnow
standard
fallow citrus
might have to play standard then
I am a red andy when it comes to farming a format
modern minnow
idk if im biased explorer seems like the easiest format to farm rating in
fallow citrus
I just want to farm wins to get packs to get wildcards to play timeless or historic
golden plover
It's in standard and pioneer
I've gone up against it in explorer
I guess the correct hit is the mouse
Because it halves their damage from burn together
Getting a Swiftspear or Slickshot thrown at you hurts, but the mouse gets to do like 14 out of nowhere
twilit canyon
this list looks ass
glad peak
Rip cookies
twilit canyon
this is like actually worse dimir lol
sleek ferry
I guess the correct hit is the mouse
without mouse you still have the phyrexian 1 drop, which is situationally better
golden plover
The phyrexian one drop doesn't double the damage from Burn Together tho
The doubled Burn Together damage on a 1 drop is what's ultimately the issue
sleek ferry
If they were to hit it, the best hit is putting resonance to 1, so people stop hard mulling for it
sleek ferry
The phyrexian one drop doesn't double the damage from Burn Together tho
wdym? the phyrexian 1 drop does the same as mouse except it hits any target
golden plover
wdym? the phyrexian 1 drop does the same as mouse except it hits any target
Oh true it does 2 less damage tho
And they've never limited a card outside of Vintage before
The best hit is to kill mouse ig
Deck doesn't have the tournament results tho
But I guess a ladder hit isn't out of the question
twilit canyon
speaking of limited, im surprised at how playable the rooms deck is in dsk
it isnt top tier though
fantastic 5-3 or 6-3 deck
twilit canyon
uhhhh they took some uncommon
golden plover
Well 2 and Valgavoth's Onslaught
twilit canyon
probably the mythic uncommons in this set
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golden plover
INSANE card
twilit canyon
onslaught can be slow though
i think scavenger was their pick if they committed a ton to blue/white or red/white
despite red/white, i dont take the hex
its somewhat slow
golden plover
Yeah true. Onslaught is also slow sometimes but X=2 stabilizes you and X=3+ wins
twilit canyon
yea but again
if you arent in green or black at all
the next best is a mythic uncommon like the scavenger
golden plover
Yeah true, nothing worth taking if you're in white/blue lol
twilit canyon
scavenger is not making it across a table cycle
golden plover
Still funny to get passed a 2.5 mythic pack
twilit canyon
and banking on overlord or hex or onslaught and then you never see a green/black card?
dead pick
which sucks for your p2p1
sleek ferry
I saw twitter saying yesterday that [[glimmerlight]] was the best common in dsk
lost widgetBOT
Artifact — Equipment
When Glimmerlight enters, create a 1/1 white Glimmer enchantment creature token.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
Equip (: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
Hope and reliable lighting are in short supply in the House. Glimmers provide both.
twilit canyon
meh
its the safest one sure
but its not the best idt
i think that theres a lot that u can say are best
[[monstrous emergence]] is one
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twilit canyon
you can also make an argument for [[sorching dragonfire]]
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golden plover
Glimmerlight isn't even the best way to make a glimmer
twilit canyon
and [[acrobatic cheerleader]] can run away with games
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golden plover
Big fan of [[Tunnel Surveyor]]
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twilit canyon
and [[creeping peeper]] has some insane value for the usual effect
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Creature — Eye
: Add . Spend this mana only to cast an enchantment spell, unlock a door, or turn a permanent face up.
"Be on your guard. Valgavoth has eyes everywhere. And I don't mean that figuratively." —Winter
2/1
twilit canyon
this little guy is stupid in 3 decks which is crazy
also [[final vengeance]] is possibly amazing
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twilit canyon
terramorphic expanse is also very good this set
ornate cedar
https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/46/creeping-peeper
I pulled that guy in my bundle yesterday. I wonder how many Eye creatures there are
ornate cedar
Enough for an eyeball deck?
twilit canyon
theres like 8 total eye creatures
atomic harness
Finally, good cards
Who was that mh3(?) blue fellow ppl are playing alongside murktide
pumps off exiles too
twilit canyon
you are making cards up now
but the new blue card added to murktide is psychic frog
golden plover
Unless you mean frog?
But frog doesn't pump off exile
It pumps off discards and exiles to fly
atomic harness
Let me try to find that card
atomic harness
you are making cards up now
holy piss I found it but it's not from mh3
it's from sigh a commander set
the card saw some legacy play allegedly
[[sailor's bane]]
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Creature — Dragon Turtle
This spell costs less to cast for each card you own in exile and in your graveyard that's an instant card, a sorcery card, or a card that has an Adventure.
Ward 
(Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
7/7
steady onyx
ok
twilit canyon
why play mid green cards when you could be playing good removal spells
ornate cedar
But Green Dino goes stompy stompy
For real though I love that one removal card is just called “Murder”
Partly because it’s so frank and macabre compared to how family friendly YuGiOh is
twilit canyon
worlds will be standard
fallow citrus
Twitter
steady onyx
why play mid green cards when you could be playing good removal spells
i mean fair enough
the appeal of the deck to me is soul cauldron
and surge engine
and ginger rite
but i also rly like wurmlet
and sentinel
modern minnow
opponent made the most catastrophic misplay ive seen in a while
golden plover
Love when they play a ygra and I've got the cats
@lusty trench huge news: Dominik Mayer Iterations are sub $10 rn
They're about $5 a pop
lusty trench
£15 foil
sleek ferry
Interesting thing that JLK said: When the RC consulted wizards in regards to the bans, wizards told them not to do the bans like this
trail anvil
yeah I can't imagine wotc likes them
twilit canyon
wotc is a much bigger fan of slowrolling bans and letting formats stagnate for months on end before making their moves
need to learn from the pros
copper pecan
wotc is a much bigger fan of slowrolling bans and letting formats stagnate for m...
tbf the rules committee was basically doing the same thing up until the latest ban
people have been complaining about thoracle for years now
golden plover
Yeah the RC spent 3 years going "we're looking at the problem cards. Lol rule 0"
twilit canyon
ok true
sleek ferry
Yeah, idk like I said, the threats were shitty and are a stain on our community, but the more that comes out about the RC’s decision making process, the more I disagree with how they approached it
steady onyx
Yeah, idk like I said, the threats were shitty and are a stain on our community,...
legit just curious
how would you approach it
like slowly say cards would be banned or something?
before jut comming out with a banlist?
like put update saying rc is looking to be more active and a banlist will he comming in near future
golden plover
There's not a real difference between "this card is banned in 2 weeks" and "this card is banned tomorrow" other than ripping off people who didn't read the announcement
copper pecan
if i was the rc those cards would have been banned years ago
rigid scarab
What would be the approach
rigid scarab
if i was the rc those cards would have been banned years ago
Not the question being asked
Like its August 2024 and you came to the conclusion that you had to ban Crypt Dockside and Lotus
lusty trench
Ban them immediately
rigid scarab
Ban them immediately
So exactly what RC did?
copper pecan
yeah i think i'd still do what the rc did
lusty trench
like I'm not sugarcoating this for people it's a fucking card game
copper pecan
ideally these cards would have been banned years ago but if they have to be banned now they have to be banned now
lusty trench
It's a banlist and nerds get angry
copper pecan
if it didn't happen now it would have happened whenever the next thing they banned got banned
the issue isn't what the rc did, the community is to blame for reacting the way they did
lusty trench
It honestly should've been expected, not to say its justified or to say that they're not allowed to be upset about said threats
But people throw death threats over the smallest shit in the world
There is zero world in which they banned these cards and thought "everyone will be civil about this", they just got the degree at which people can cry like babies wrong
copper pecan
yeah i expected some kind of pushback but not to the extent of what ended up happening
lusty trench
Even if they went "oh yeah these cards are being banned in a month" people would still be pissed and the cards will still plummet
Because it's a casual format
The moment that announcement goes live everyone knows they've got rotten apples that were once truffles
rigid scarab
Would a watchlist approach be met with the exact same response?
lusty trench
There's no upcoming tournament where they can have one last hurrah with the best deck
copper pecan
the real mistake the rc made was banning things so infrequently that it set up an expectation from part of the community that nothing would ever be banned
rigid scarab
I would think it might have at least lessened it
lusty trench
Would a watchlist approach be met with the exact same response?
A watch list would be as we see now
People are mad at dockside being banned
That mf was on the list for 3 god damn years
copper pecan
Would a watchlist approach be met with the exact same response?
the cards would still lose a ton of value just from being put on the watchlist so i don't think this would fix anything
rigid scarab
the cards would still lose a ton of value just from being put on the watchlist s...
Lotus would at least go from like $200 to $120
Not $200 to $20
lusty trench
the cards would still lose a ton of value just from being put on the watchlist s...
They would now that the committee has shown they will actually action on their watch list
Like a watchlist prior to this announcement is meaningless
It has no effect on anything
Because docksides hit shows that
The ideal world in not making the finance bros mad would be ban dockside and thoracle, put crypt and lotus on the watch list, because it signals a watchlist addition means a likely ban
But that is an awful way to run a game
You shouldn't have to prioritise babying your community about cardboard over your games health
copper pecan
if this is how the cedh community acts then i don't think wotc should bother trying to appeal to these people
lusty trench
if this is how the cedh community acts then i don't think wotc should bother try...
To be fair like it's a majority not them
sleek ferry
if this is how the cedh community acts then i don't think wotc should bother try...
This needs to stop being said, the majority of the outrage was not from the cedh community
It was the casual scene, specifically the higher powered casual scene
lusty trench
Honestly the reaction from them while mixed was quite civil
sleek ferry
Most cedh players proxy that’s why
lusty trench
Or have the money to spare
And that's the main issue, people spent money they didn't have actually spare under the idea that they could always resell to get it back or that it's a kind of "investment"
trail anvil
anybody who's playing crypt and lotus in casual should be able to afford losing them
that said people who bring crypt and lotus into casual seem to have an overlap with those who would send death threats to the rc
sleek ferry
like slowly say cards would be banned or something?
To answer your question and as has been said above, I would have probably banned dockside and Nadu this list, and banned lotus and crypt the following list. The infrequency of the bans from the RC (last banlist being 3 years ago), along with them telling us that a certain card is problematic for years (thoracle), and from what’s coming out, them seemingly going into business for themselves despite others telling them otherwise, I think those are all factors as to why this ended up being such a huge shit show
lusty trench
To answer your question and as has been said above, I would have probably banned...
People would be mad when you didn't signal that mana crypt and lotus was on the watch list
golden plover
I honestly think RC didn't do anything wrong?
lusty trench
They didn't
sleek ferry
That’s just white knighting tbh
lusty trench
This is just a damned if you do damned if you don't situation
sleek ferry
RC did a lot wrong
Including not taking advise from the CAG or even telling them about this
golden plover
If they did another quarterly "we're watching over the following cards" they would have been memed to hell because the impression they don't do anything
sleek ferry
Ignoring warnings from wotc themselves
steady onyx
Even if they went "oh yeah these cards are being banned in a month" people would...
not these cards
but just saying there would be a banlist
not specifying the cards
lusty trench
not specifying the cards
People would still say it was out of nowhere and that they stole money from them
steady onyx
i also would have banned breach labman thoracle and decon
lusty trench
Because you cannot win here
copper pecan
but just saying there would be a banlist
even then i don't think that would fix anything
lusty trench
They are arguing from a point that makes no sense
They will shift their goalpost for their outrage
copper pecan
yeah you can't reason with these people
lusty trench
Short of absolutely coddling the playerbase, you will still have people be mad
And they shouldn't have to coddle them
golden plover
The thing is, any competitive card game player has no issue with this kinda shit
sleek ferry
Stop comparing this to comp tcg’s with regular banlists
golden plover
You can drop $3k for a modern deck or a yugioh deck and it's banned without warning tomorrow
People understand that
sleek ferry
There’s a difference between knowing a banlist is coming and averaging 1 banlist every 3 years
Stop being so fucking sense
golden plover
I don't see the difference ngl?
copper pecan
then do banlists more often than every 3 years
golden plover
Yeah that's the biggest issue
sleek ferry
That’s where people are faulting the rc
copper pecan
there are plenty of other cards that should probably be banned too
sleek ferry
Because they went years with being inept
golden plover
Is that the RC spent 3 years going "we're watching cards"
lusty trench
The best time to plant a tree was 25 years ago the best time is now
sleek ferry
It’s not about the bannings to a lot of people, besides the minority that made the death threats, most people can agree these cards needed to be banned
It’s the fact that RC literally was sitting on their ass doing jack shit
golden plover
You can't do 3 years of "we're watching cards" tho and then go "Hey we actually mean it this time" before going on to do a real ban
sleek ferry
And then just drop a bomb
golden plover
Because people will assume "hey we actually mean it this time" is just another "we're watching cards"
sleek ferry
And on top of dropping that bomb, you don’t hit 1 of the 2 most problematic cards you were nonstop talking about
That’s what kills people the most about this banlist
golden plover
I mean, they've mentioned fast mana being an issue in pretty much every quarterly article
lusty trench
It’s the fact that RC literally was sitting on their ass doing jack shit
Honestly... Cry about it I honestly do not care the format had a banlist and it was receiving regular updates into the committees thoughts regardless of inaction, and has had cards added to it prior to it's inception.
golden plover
They just didn't name names outside of "Dockside"
lusty trench
That alone is merit to not need to be coddled with this
golden plover
This whole thing is a skill issue tbh
lusty trench
They knew the RC was able to ban cards whenever they felt it right
And that alone is merit to not cry over lost money
twilit canyon
years of ppl telling us that rule 0 is a thing only for a perfect opportunity for ppl to use rule 0 and then complain about how the bans should be reversed
golden plover
If I drop $500+ on pioneer phoenix and then in 3 weeks they ban phoenix (they won't, this is an extreme example) I understand that's a risk I took buing the cards
Yugioh does that shit ALL THE FUCKING TIME
At the end of the day, they're game pieces in a card game
They don't have any real value
I'm down $160ish from the bans, but tbh that doesn't bother me
Because I'd rather see the problematic cards go
lusty trench
People need to understand that investments even if they're stupid don't actually equate to real money until theyve got the transaction solidified
golden plover
A dockside in a deck =/= $80
It equals a dockside that's in that deck
It's only $80 if you can sell it back to someone for $80
copper pecan
rule zero doesn't work. you can't just offload the responsibility of balancing the format onto the players and expect them to deal with it
golden plover
I know I keep circling back to the money on this, but ngl, that's the only real complaint I've heard
copper pecan
true
golden plover
I've seen very few "I liked playing dockside or mana crypt" but that happens
twilit canyon
just hilarious the level of hypocrisy was on display
"you guys dont like it? rule 0 it out!"
"rc you all deserve to die right now for banning crypt and jlo how dare you do this"
trail anvil
I liked Olivia's attempt
twilit canyon
when they could rule 0 it in
golden plover
I liked playing Paradox Engine and Breach Combo in pioneer
trail anvil
doing that in 2 stages would've been nice
golden plover
But I get that cards being banned happens and I can't play paradox engine because of it
copper pecan
it would have just stretched out the fallout
twilit canyon
bc then theres just 1 or 2 cards they would have been harassing ppl about
golden plover
The mana crypt and lotus bans were gonna piss people off no matter what
twilit canyon
and then the 2nd ban hits and then ppl would go feral
copper pecan
The mana crypt and lotus bans were gonna piss people off no matter what
yeah this
lusty trench
when they could rule 0 it in
But misty that means they have to have the conversation and that's not fair
(for some reason)
golden plover
Even if they explicitly said in the article where they banned Dockside and Nadu "Hey we're banning Mana Crypt next so get your last games in" people would have gone "I didn't think they'd actually do it"
golden plover
"you guys dont like it? rule 0 it out!"
Also it's OBSCENELY harder to Rule 0 out a card than it is to rule 0 in one
My example for this used to actually be dockside