Magic the Gathering

[sudden lava]

🙂

[rigid scarab]

Notably, I feel like I need to do something with the sheer amount of cards I would get once Toluz eventually died

[lusty trench]

I mean there’s always old reliable

[rigid scarab]

I'm not using thoracle.

Or lab man.

Or jace.

I will not succumb to the dark side

I'd like this to be my big hands-on control deck

But I'm not against some 2 card combos that may not instantly win

[lusty trench]

it’d make that situation much easier and winning via long turns is arguably worse but aight, errrr… shit to do with a big hand

First of all there’s this if you want to be an ass and not let people play the game

7 mana win the game?

[rigid scarab]

Hmmm

I think the problem I see with mindcrank is that it does flat zippo without that other super specific card

Like you could thoracle to find something

You could demonic consult for an answer in your deck to a threat

[lusty trench]

It’s the issue when going for jank combos

Errr

Osteomancer adept + lotus petal + brain freeze?

Takes a turn to win, osteomancer and lotus petal are useful in independently too

Wait shit osteomancer says creatures only

Cringe

[trail anvil]

[[reenact the crime]] on moonshaker cavalry off a connive

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/70/reenact-the-crime

Reenact the Crime <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Exile target nonland card in a graveyard that was put there from anywhere this turn. Copy it. You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.
At Proft's command, an ethereal model of the ransacked workshop sprang into being, every detail perfectly recreated. He'd missed something—he knew it—but what?

[trail anvil]

jesus lumra is a strong commander. I wonder if you could do a cedh build with it, but at least it has an endless supply of powerful cards in casual edh

[sleek ferry]

[[lumra]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/183/lumra-bellow-of-the-woods

Lumra, Bellow of the Woods <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Elemental Bear
Vigilance, reach
Lumra, Bellow of the Woods's power and toughness are each equal to the number of lands you control.
When Lumra enters, mill four cards. Then return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
*/*

[sleek ferry]

Nope

Mono green in cedh is asking to lose

[trail anvil]

no infinite huh? I was wondering if there was something with food chain but ig you can't guarantee the lands

[sleek ferry]

Green is just far and away the weakest color in cedh

[trail anvil]

cause I've seen a decent amount of marwyn and yisan

[trail anvil]

yeah I figured unfort, rip

[glad peak]

You can food chain infinite to mill your deck but what’re doing after that in mono green

[trail anvil]

waiting for wizards to print a thoracle color shift

[glad peak]

Oh wait you can four horsemen

Mill and grab all lands and continue to loop until you end with some cards in deck and whatever you need in grave

Mass entomb and deck reset is cool but why

[trail anvil]

at that point do you not just try to go for infinite mana then finale of devastation to swing for a win or something

[glad peak]

Because you can’t use food chain mana for that and it doesn’t add cards to hand

[trail anvil]

ah

[glad peak]

Yeah very specific problem lol

Actually are there cards that puts cards to hand when you mill them? Sounds like something green would have

[trail anvil]

[[food chain]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/147/food-chain

Food Chain <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment
Exile a creature you control: Add X mana of any one color, where X is 1 plus the exiled creature's mana value. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells.
Every predator is something else's prey.

[trail anvil]

damn you can't use this for [[timeless witness]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/179/timeless-witness

Timeless Witness <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Human Shaman
When Timeless Witness enters, return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Eternalize (, Exile this card from your graveyard: Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a 4/4 black Zombie Human Shaman with no mana cost. Eternalize only as a sorcery.)
2/1

[trail anvil]

although in a perfect world I imagine you have lotus cobra/nissa to go mana positive during the combo

[glad peak]

That would be the hard part but I guess not too bad

You can use fetches to increase landfall too

[trail anvil]

fml even if I wanted to go the food chain route, is there any way to search it in monogreen? lmao

[glad peak]

There’s uhhhh

Wait actually? Huh

[fallow citrus]

https://x.com/mtg_ds/status/1821948795153723541?t=BntQ7xcctRwblzoDlCiOPg&s=19

Magic Data Science (@mtg_ds) on X

Opens up entirely new directions for the few Populate commanders we have...

Twitter · Aug 9, 2024, 4:36 PM

[stark skiff]

Sending it to grave and retrieving it is your best bet

[fallow citrus]

ok I love this

https://x.com/mtg_ds/status/1821950120616702308?t=92i5nFnE_pkTGgQsrV1_ww&s=19

Magic Data Science (@mtg_ds) on X

Combining two of my favorite things: Slivers and puns.

Twitter · Aug 9, 2024, 4:42 PM

[trail anvil]

okay then next question, is there a way to dump it reliably in monogreen lmao

[trail anvil]

the power of love

[trail anvil]

I'm amazed this is only 2 mana tbh lol

[glad peak]

There’s lumra + food chain + oh wait

Reliable way to dump it is to use it

[trail anvil]

yeah I was gonna say lol, you can dump your entire deck once you have it but getting to that point sounds troublesome

but yeah in casual if you have a fetch land then it feels like you just auto-pay for lumra's commander tax each time, and there's more landfall support in monogreen than stars in the universe

[glad peak]

You can lumra + landfall creature modern nadu uses

To clone lumra over and over again with whatever mana you have per turn

[trail anvil]

[[springheart nantuko]] this one?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/171/springheart-nantuko

Springheart Nantuko <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment Creature — Insect Monk
Bestow
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1.
Landfall — Whenever a land you control enters, you may pay if Springheart Nantuko is attached to a creature you control. If you do, create a token that's a copy of that creature. If you didn't create a token this way, create a 1/1 green Insect creature token.
1/1

[glad peak]

Yup

Make another lumra, get the trigger, sac the new lumra, repeat

[stark skiff]

Yay some of my order came in. Got the last foil NM Bontu’s lol

[copper pecan]

i want to see the plane this guy is from

[lusty trench]

DEAR LORD THIS IS RANCID

The art is great but Jesus it creeps me tf out

[copper pecan]

oh that's the vanguard art for him

for like 20 years this was the only art we had of gix

[stark skiff]

Caretaker's Talent going up

[gritty nest]

[[caretakers talent]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/6/caretakers-talent

Caretaker's Talent <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
Whenever one or more tokens you control enter, draw a card. This ability triggers only once each turn.
: Level 2
When this Class becomes level 2, create a token that's a copy of target token you control.
: Level 3
Creature tokens you control get +2/+2.

[gritty nest]

I picked up an Ojer Taq today for Zinnia

I also got a borderless chatterfang and a few other cards

[gritty nest]

@trail anvil I have an idea for the Katerina Nocturno deck

[[Shadowborn apostle]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/89/shadowborn-apostle

Shadowborn Apostle <:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Human Cleric
A deck can have any number of cards named Shadowborn Apostle.
, Sacrifice six creatures named Shadowborn Apostle: Search your library for a Demon creature card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
1/1

[trail anvil]

so you'd choose "number" then draw for each apostle?

it's a decent synergy but I feel like a lot of the time apostle just turns it into an apostle deck, as long as you're fine with that

[gritty nest]

I’ll choose S and “Shadow”

Whenever I cast an apostle

Name starts with S, make a 2/2 cat, card has shadow in the rules text, draw a card

Use the apostles for sack outlet otherwise

But it also takes away the fun of building the deck

[trail anvil]

yeah that's the issue I usually have with apostle lol. thrumming stone is fun tho

actually I take that back, thrumming stone is kinda boring cause you just dump everything onto the board pretty easily

[gritty nest]

I wouldn’t be doing that but I get what you mean

[trail anvil]

fair enough. I'm just traumatized by misreading it then seeing one dude dump out all 20 apostles for the win

thankfully I didn't have the removal so it wasn't my misplay to leave thrumming stone alive lol

[gritty nest]

Ah lol

I’m debating on if I even want to do that shadowborn apostle thing

Because then it just

Turns the deck into an 78 card deck (I’d probably run 20 apostles, mana generation like phyrexian altar)

[trail anvil]

tbh I think a more fun thing is trying to find stuff that overlaps so you get as many bonuses as possible

[gritty nest]

All my pickups today btw

[gritty nest]

Exactly, that’s what I was thinking, stuff that helps the theme but also just unique names that you wouldn’t think of

[trail anvil]

but your call at the end of the day

[trail anvil]

fun stuff

planning to do abzan tokens?

[gritty nest]

Chatterfang was to make food more pretty, ojer taq is for zinnia, the rest for my desert deck

[trail anvil]

ic

[gritty nest]

And also because helm of the host with ojer taq will be hilarious but dumb

[trail anvil]

yeah lmao I get that

[gritty nest]

All fun and games until I make 81 copies of [[Witty Roastmaster]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/snc/131/witty-roastmaster

Witty Roastmaster <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Creature — Devil Citizen
Alliance — Whenever another creature you control enters, Witty Roastmaster deals 1 damage to each opponent.
If you're lucky, you'll walk out with just your ego singed.
3/2

[trail anvil]

today I cast [[doppelgang]] on [[mana reflection]] basically so I know exactly what you mean

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/198/doppelgang

Doppelgang <:manax:292901509082120202><:manax:292901509082120202><:manax:292901509082120202><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Sorcery
For each of X target permanents, create X tokens that are copies of that permanent.
"Suspect spotted at the Tin Street Market, Yescu Street entrance. And the Oak Street entrance. And somehow also in Lobar Alley!" —Avult of the Foundway Associates

https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/175/mana-reflection

Mana Reflection <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment
If you tap a permanent for mana, it produces twice as much of that mana instead.
The greatest wonders of nature are found in the smallest saplings straining toward the canopy.

[gritty nest]

How much was X

[trail anvil]

perfection 👌

x=4

[gritty nest]

Lmfao

Worth

[trail anvil]

I did defense of the heart too but they managed to remove it 😦

[gritty nest]

You know the green spell where everyone can pay mana and everyone grabs that many basics

Collective voyage or something

[trail anvil]

yeah I forgot the name but I know exactly what you mean

[gritty nest]

I’m playing Bello
It was turn 3
I got 5 lands

After already ramping

[trail anvil]

that one scares me cause everyone gets the lands, but I'm guessing you were more explosive huh lol

I wanna play that with the mana burn commander tho

[gritty nest]

Unnatural growth plus the enchantment that says when a creature deals combat damage double that damage

By turn 4

[trail anvil]

oh man lol

[subtle sierra]

god i've already hit the "lands frustrate me" stage

last 3 matches i had to mulligan each hand twice cause the first two had 0-1 lands

mtga fucking hates me

[trail anvil]

unfortunately happens

how many are you running rn and which deck are you on?

[subtle sierra]

this happens way too much for me

mono black, 24

i can't touch a multicolor deck cause again

lands

i will not draw the correct color

[trail anvil]

dual lands are stronk

[twilit canyon]

24 is way too low

[trail anvil]

that is unfortunate though

[twilit canyon]

unless you are aggressive

[subtle sierra]

the deck is aggressive discard thing

i kinda don't wanna topdecking lands with it

[twilit canyon]

you do

25-26 should be way more comfortable

[subtle sierra]

i'll try that

[twilit canyon]

post the list

i can see if theres any other adjustments to make

[twilit canyon]

yeah theres just a bit too much discard

discard is at an all time weak in magic as a whole

you can easily ditch the hopeless nightmares

play 2 more lands

hm

1 sec

@subtle sierra mind posting your collection in mono-black? mostly what i was thinking of getting into your list is [[aclazotz, deepest betrayal]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/88/aclazotz-deepest-betrayal-temple-of-the-dead

Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Bat God
Flying, lifelink
Whenever Aclazotz attacks, each opponent discards a card. For each opponent who can't, you draw a card.
Whenever an opponent discards a land card, create a 1/1 black Bat creature token with flying.
When Aclazotz dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control.
4/4

Temple of the Dead
Land
(Transforms from Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal.)
: Add .
, : Transform Temple of the Dead. Activate only if a player has one or fewer cards in hand and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec peace in death. Aclazotz ripped it away.

[twilit canyon]

just 1 copy really

[subtle sierra]

don't have one

[twilit canyon]

but also moving away from a primary discard plan

hmm

do you have maha?

[subtle sierra]

ik he exists but

[twilit canyon]

maha works too

[subtle sierra]

nop

[twilit canyon]

point being to divorce away from discard and into quality

any [[darkstar augur]]?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/90/darkstar-augur

Darkstar Augur <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Bat Warlock
Offspring (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, when this creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library and put that card into your hand. You lose life equal to its mana value.
2/3

[twilit canyon]

what about [[virtue of persistence]]?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/115/virtue-of-persistence-locthwain-scorn

Virtue of Persistence <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put target creature card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.

Locthwain Scorn
Sorcery — Adventure
Target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn. You gain 2 life.

[subtle sierra]

i get a mythic wildcard next pack, i just need 50 gold

i have neither but1 rare wildcard

[twilit canyon]

are you committing to black/x decks?

how many mirrex and/or fountainports do you have?

[subtle sierra]

2 mirrex

i don't have to commit to anything, i can always make a new acc and make smth off ~13 rares ~4 mythics

[twilit canyon]

hmm okay fair

[subtle sierra]

i just wanted some control-ish thing and it's something i saw similar

[twilit canyon]

discard as control is just really mid

but

a black midrange/control list should be solid

[subtle sierra]

control is mid in general atm from what i gather

[twilit canyon]

in bo1

in bo3 its pretty solid

but its better to be in a midrange style plan

since you want to be able to push your board state around

ie: aclazotz

and shelly

[subtle sierra]

ic

[twilit canyon]

they do a great job at breaking a control mirror

and are relevant vs aggro

keep in 2 copies or so of [[long goodbye]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/92/long-goodbye

Long Goodbye <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manab:292901508872273920>

Instant
This spell can't be countered. (This includes by the ward ability.)
Destroy target creature or planeswalker with mana value 3 or less.
As the days grew longer, so did the list of missing persons.

[twilit canyon]

between main/side

total 4

any copies of [[lord skitter]]?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/99/lord-skitters-butcher

Lord Skitter's Butcher <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Rat Peasant
When Lord Skitter's Butcher enters, choose one —
• Create a 1/1 black Rat creature token with "This creature can't block."
• You may sacrifice another creature. If you do, scry 2, then draw a card.
• Creatures you control gain menace until end of turn.
2/3

[twilit canyon]

o

[[lord skitter sewer king]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/97/lord-skitter-sewer-king

Lord Skitter, Sewer King <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Rat Noble
Whenever another Rat you control enters, exile up to one target card from an opponent's graveyard.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, create a 1/1 black Rat creature token with "This creature can't block."
3/3

[twilit canyon]

goes fantastic with fountainport and mirrex (which also goes well with fountainport)

[subtle sierra]

nope

ngl i think it'd be easier to just make a new acc if i wanna change decks

[twilit canyon]

its up to you

[subtle sierra]

ig i just need a decent list, but it's probably like 20 or so rares and a bunch of mythics

[twilit canyon]

a discard list would be mid though for sure and u will absolutely feel it as you climb

can make do with some 14 and 4

[subtle sierra]

i already feel it

• the land thing

[twilit canyon]

you like scrappy control lists?

like a mono-white midrange/tokens?

[subtle sierra]

i usually prefer throwing big flashy stuff i could throw lategame, i loved sultai ultimatum

but that doesn't exist much atm

and it's hella expensive wildcard wise

[twilit canyon]

yeah theres not a ton of anything flashy top-end

ig eternal wanderer

[subtle sierra]

so i'll take something more midrange-y

[twilit canyon]

is the "big" mana payoff

[subtle sierra]

eternal wanderer is ehhhhhh

never liked her tbh

[twilit canyon]

she can be absurd but

[subtle sierra]

i think something with caretaker's talent could work as a wincon, but i didn't see good lists with it

[twilit canyon]

yea i get it

[subtle sierra]

like you can fountainport the caretaker's on their turn

draw every turn

etc

i also saw some azorius artifact thing, but i never saw it in action

[twilit canyon]

the secret to the lists are [[skrelv's hive]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/one/34/skrelvs-hive

Skrelv's Hive <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life and create a 1/1 colorless Phyrexian Mite artifact creature token with toxic 1 and "This creature can't block."
Corrupted — As long as an opponent has three or more poison counters, creatures you control with toxic have lifelink.

[twilit canyon]

azorius artifacts is mostly aggro

[subtle sierra]

yeah hive is nuts with caretakers

[subtle sierra]

ah

then

stinky

you think that hive + caretaker's + white removal could work as a deck?

for like mono white

i'm just a little afraid that get lost vs stuff like golgari will just eat my ass

they make maps already

and i give them 2

💀

[trail anvil]

https://youtu.be/IF3aHVJ52m8?si=hqM_oqaefbvuViSt boy have I got the video for you

[subtle sierra]

well i was looking at this https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=58075&d=634026&f=ST

[trail anvil]

beza still not beating the fraud allegations imo, this card still seems like it's meant to be sided vs aggro

[subtle sierra]

idk if i like beza but i haven't encountered her

[trail anvil]

this looks nice too

[subtle sierra]

she just feels like a discount sheoldred

ossification still in rotation is poggers for me

[twilit canyon]

beza good

[subtle sierra]

i love that card

[trail anvil]

I feel like the two aren't comparable outside of stats

[twilit canyon]

went ahead and put something together thats semi-budget

18 rares (main) and 6 mythics (main)

with some trims to keep it more friendly

[trail anvil]

requisition raid seems nuts to me tho

[subtle sierra]

[[novice inspector]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/29/novice-inspector

Novice Inspector <:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Creature — Human Detective
When Novice Inspector enters, investigate. (Create a Clue token. It's an artifact with ", Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
"If the perfect evidence appears at your feet, your first task is to rule out misdirection." —The Ravnican Agency of Magicological Investigations handbook
1/2

[subtle sierra]

wait what

this is nuts

[trail anvil]

especially into domain

[twilit canyon]

i personally dont have the caretakers or beza so i cant outright test it and i dont wanna craft them

i barely play standard rn

[subtle sierra]

that's fair

[twilit canyon]

im playing way more alchemy

and timeless if im playing arena

[subtle sierra]

i can make a new acc and this after locals

[twilit canyon]

yea this is a much more viable deck that i think has way better longevity

[subtle sierra]

we have an ots champ today (without prizing but prob with invites) so i gotta get ready

wait requisition raid is fucking nuts too

wtf

why is black and white always this nuts

[trail anvil]

just wait until you resolve it destroying cornucopia beans

[subtle sierra]

the what

[twilit canyon]

[[astral cornucopia]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/172/astral-cornucopia

Astral Cornucopia <:manax:292901509082120202><:manax:292901509082120202><:manax:292901509082120202>

Artifact
Astral Cornucopia enters with X charge counters on it.
: Choose a color. Add one mana of that color for each charge counter on Astral Cornucopia.

[twilit canyon]

oh

lol

im tired

fuck whatever its called

its a 3 mana

2g

makes a mana

gains life per color of mana spent on ur 1st spell each turn

stupid solid card

[[up the beanstalk]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woe/195/up-the-beanstalk

Up the Beanstalk <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment
When Up the Beanstalk enters and whenever you cast a spell with mana value 5 or greater, draw a card.
"It's not so bad. All you have to do is keep from looking down." —Troyan, to Kellan and Ruby

[subtle sierra]

[[ancient cornucopia]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/big/16/ancient-cornucopia

Ancient Cornucopia <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Artifact
Whenever you cast a spell that's one or more colors, you may gain 1 life for each of that spell's colors. Do this only once each turn.
: Add one mana of any color.
"I reckon that thing's trying to put me out of a job!" —Bristly Bill, cactusfolk gardener

[subtle sierra]

this?

[twilit canyon]

yea

requisition raid is super underplayed in standard rn

it'll pick up in popularity

but there are a ton of situations where the card is nuts

[trail anvil]

with all the innkeeper combo running around I certainly hope so

[twilit canyon]

innkeeper combo is so mid too

too much answers it

but its cute that its kinda free in the shell its in

[subtle sierra]

using 3 mana to kill an enchantment and give counters to yourself sounds stupid nuts

[trail anvil]

the fact that it is so free in the shell it's in is what makes it nice, you legitimately want to slap counters on the adventure knight and your bat

you're playing golgari midrange and you're saying "oh btw if you don't have enchantment removal or a counterspell you die on the spot"

and bats/cruelclaw's heist post-side help you pave the way as well

[twilit canyon]

and all the skrelv tokens

[subtle sierra]

👁️

[trail anvil]

😩 👌

[subtle sierra]

ok now i really need to finish my ygo deck or i'll be late

[subtle sierra]

ok i love this

drawing 2 each turn and making a mite is soooooo good

caretaker's also can copy a clue

value town

[subtle sierra]

god why is every game like a highlight lol

[sleek ferry]

Beza is crazy

[atomic harness]

Mite pog

[subtle sierra]

ngl i only resolved more than one mode once

it's incredibly mid for me atm

but small sample size and all

in both of those screens she was like

gain 4 life

i'm big

that's about it

[lusty trench]

Beza is one of those reads better than they are cards that while disappointing in reality still are okay but not amazing

[sleek ferry]

The body is still very good, and I’ve seen a lot of people get crazy value out of it by either blinking it on even using pixie on it

[golden plover]

Every single time I side in surgical extractions, I just don't see it. There's no way I should be running 4, but it might have to happen considering how much I'm losing to Phlage despite siding in the best answer every time

It just sucks that I'm siding correctly and playing it out right, but arena won't let me see my answer to Phlage

I don't think my sideboard is bad here, but I'm just never seeing the extractions

[glad peak]

Just run 40 anti grave stuff, surely you’ll have an answer then, right?

(Gives you only lands 7 times in a row)

[golden plover]

I almost considered [[Graffdigger's Cage]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mb2/222/grafdiggers-cage

Grafdigger's Cage <:mana1:292901508373282827>

Artifact
Creature cards in graveyards and libraries can't enter the battlefield.
Players can't cast spells from graveyards or libraries.

[golden plover]

But it doesn't help me tbh

I guess I could run Rest in Peace but haha no

Can't do either Leyline

[subtle sierra]

passage fountain and some talents on sale today

[lusty trench]

Man I hate innkeepers talent in limited

[trail anvil]

oof that's a crazy bomb to run into

[lusty trench]

Nettle guarded it twice but they had another permanent retrieval effect

[trail anvil]

this has been my experience with her. if I wanted to play a big butt in white I'd go all the way and play mommy

[twilit canyon]

beza is good in non-black midrange/control

[trail anvil]

I've heard it described as even if it's a 4 mana 4/5 draw 1 it's good, but I feel like I rarely see the mode and I can't help feel like there are many other ways I'd rather spend the mana. I get it vs aggro but otherwise I feel like you aren't getting much

[twilit canyon]

4 mana 4/5 draw 1 gain 4 is sometimes relevant and she can sometimes be that + bodies

practically punishes ppl from getting ahead of you in any way

ie: you are on the draw on your turn 4

[trail anvil]

idk doesn't seem like a super potent punish

[twilit canyon]

opp is up 2 life, 1 land, has 2 creatures to your 0, and 4 cards in hand vs your 3 (after casting beza)

thats backbreaking momentum

[trail anvil]

like vs aggro making 2 fish gaining 4 life sounds super common and I get that, that's great

[twilit canyon]

and beza is a 4/5 on her own

[trail anvil]

do you actually see this happen more than once in a blue moon? I feel like this happens less often than it should

[twilit canyon]

no but even just 2/4

[trail anvil]

a 4/5 is a decent body but this is a bigger standard post rotation than usual

[twilit canyon]

is a lot of value

[trail anvil]

if it's turn 4 then the important had to ramp with lands though in order to get the treasure

and if you're not playing it on 4 then that's even weirder to me

[twilit canyon]

those treasures do cantrip off caretaker too

as do the fish

[twilit canyon]

shelly's good on any turn really

cus she stablizes you

same with beza

[trail anvil]

yeah but she's shelly

she presents pressure and deathtouch on top of the big body

[twilit canyon]

beza is more immediate anyways

[trail anvil]

beza is more immediate but also more conditional

and if you don't have a blink will likely get out valued

[twilit canyon]

you dont need a blink

beza is better raw value than shelly

beza is only "bad" when you are ahead

and shes still a 4/5

in a midrange shell you can also often be ahead and below on cards in hand

[trail anvil]

okay let's even just say this, would you prefer her on the draw vs on the play given she is catch-up the card?

[twilit canyon]

100%

[trail anvil]

since that would make it a lot more likely they have more life, creatures, lands

[twilit canyon]

no qs aaked

[trail anvil]

that's why I'm more fine with her in the side than the main. I can even understand the argument for 2 in the main because again she has applications vs aggro (depending on your meta) and you can expect to start a decent number of games on the draw

I feel like the 4-of main is where I start to feel disconnected

[twilit canyon]

can you find a stronger card than beza

in the main?

thats why ppl run 4 of main

[trail anvil]

sure there are situations where she gets a mode but I see her played vs stuff like golgari and just hear "oh man I really wish her draw was online"

I think so honestly, I'd probably rather have a season card

but it depends on the deck

if you can say "I get all this value all the time" rather than "a lot of this value is game state dependent", I think that's a solid argument at that much mana

[twilit canyon]

season cards rarely have the fail safe of being an above rate 4/5

[trail anvil]

now if you say "no matter what this 4/5 body is useful to me and I'm most likely gaining life where I need to/making extra bodies where I need to" I get that

[twilit canyon]

thats it more or less

at worst, a 4 mana 4/5 in decks that rarely run them

very often, also providing some form of advantages

and if you get 3 or 4 modes, just snowballs

[trail anvil]

I don't want just a 4 mana 4/5 vs a deck like domain or golgari though unless I'm in an emergency. and if I'm in an emergency I wanted a more direct answer anyways

[twilit canyon]

vs golgari you do a good chunk of times

[trail anvil]

vs boros convoke, sure. but again that's why I feel like it's more of a side card

[twilit canyon]

and vs domain, the deck was already a poor match up

[trail anvil]

I mean vs domain what if it was a requisition raid

[twilit canyon]

then you'd have a very specific card that sucks against most other decks

[trail anvil]

shoot like there's gotta be something in the colors you play

[twilit canyon]

i added raid to solar's main only for budget reasons

good card yes but its a budget constraint

[trail anvil]

okay before anything else let's pick a white deck we're using beza in

[twilit canyon]

mono-white

boros

jeskai

azorius

[trail anvil]

we're using it in boros vs just a bunch of low to the ground stuff?

[twilit canyon]

not the bad builds

the midrange lists

playing anything aggressive in standard bo3 rn is suicide

respect it sure but they are genuinely so fucked

beza is likely one of the best cards you can add to your deck in these decks

[golden plover]

Wait how is Beza better raw value

If we're completely ignoring text that isn't keywords, Shelly is still just better

Being a 4/5 deathtouch usually completely shuts down combat

[twilit canyon]

no

shelly doesnt do anything on etb

this has always been her weakness

[golden plover]

Shelly's etb is "remove me on sight"

She stops combat and also hurts you for trying to answer her

[twilit canyon]

this isnt the case with beza

beza actually does her shit on etb

removal or not

and then they still have to deal with the body

[golden plover]

I don't think she needs an etb when you're punished for having the audacity to exist while Shelly is out

[twilit canyon]

it does matter bc theres a big reason shelly has been falling more and more out of favor in modern and such

[golden plover]

Beza's etbs are only online if you're behind and you can't control the mode

[twilit canyon]

it already happened in standard too

shelly sometimes isnt mained

[trail anvil]

I feel like the "hurting you for trying to answer her" part is big when drawing does big damage

[golden plover]

Yeah that's my thing too

[twilit canyon]

bc if you are playing removal mirrors

shes doing fuck all

beza isnt

[golden plover]

If you don't have an answer, Shelly hurts you for trying to find one

The 2 a draw adds up fast since you're rarely dealing with her via combat

[twilit canyon]

and again, meta didnt favor shelly at all pre-rotation

[trail anvil]

even if you're doing removal mirrors, golgari is just so ridiculously packed with value that it seems like you're forcing removal at every turn idk

[twilit canyon]

bc having the answer was trivial and the life loss didnt matter

shelly was not good pre-rotation at the end

the meta didnt let her be

[trail anvil]

bats clear out removal or grab it, even innkeeper's talent makes random creatures threats in a race

[golden plover]

I dunno, I've only been playing Gruul prowess in standard, but I feel like I can't see beza being raw value better than Shelly

[trail anvil]

I mean azorius control was the best deck at that point imo

[twilit canyon]

you are playing gruul prowess. you are likely bo1

[trail anvil]

and deluge was the best card for the best deck which didn't draw

[twilit canyon]

in which case beza actually hurts you more

[trail anvil]

well not the best card but emperor is emperor

[twilit canyon]

yeah crazy that shelly wasnt good vs a control deck that draws cards

[golden plover]

Sure sometimes they gain some life and draw, but Sheoldred is a lot scarier to see on the board

[twilit canyon]

must be that her impact sucks when removing her is triviap

and if shelly is your only pressure losing even 6 life doesnt matter

[trail anvil]

control's best draw spell had 3 modes lol

[twilit canyon]

right

it makes it so that shelly has a super poor match up

they dont have to care and they can spend their spells in other things too

[trail anvil]

if azorius control suddenly becomes the best deck again then sure beza > shelly but rn control doesn't have deluge or wandering emperor

and if we're going against control I still don't want beza most likely

[twilit canyon]

beza is better etb than shelly in 90% of situations even in a mirror situation of shelly vs beza its beza going to be stablizing you vs shelly herself

the only time beza is just worse is when you are ahead

and at that point you still get an on-rate 4/5

in the head to head i will take beza over shelly in a deck unless im doing something specifically with shelly

[trail anvil]

you're saying that like a vanilla is playable in this standard though

[twilit canyon]

people play vanillas all the time

every creature without an etb is a vanilla for all intents and purposes

[trail anvil]

you're telling me preacher of the schism is a vanilla

[twilit canyon]

it can be in many spots

[trail anvil]

at baseline it's a 2/4 deathtouch that's always doing something positive

even if you don't want the token creation effect vs a slower deck, in a bad situation, that's still 1 more body to pump with innkeeper's talent

[golden plover]

Shelly is also an on-rate 4/5 tho and she comes with a relevant keyword

[twilit canyon]

i mean vanillas bc removal is so good

dont ever expect a creature to see next turn

[trail anvil]

removal is so good but so is the concentration of golgari's threats and its hand hate

post board you have a genuinely disgusting amount of option for hand hate in slower matchups

[twilit canyon]

thats a mistake

[trail anvil]

cruelclaw's heist is a busted card

[twilit canyon]

midrange mirrors is a case of not playing discard

you side it all out

the one with the discard spells when both are hellbent loses

cruelclaw's heist is solid but i dont even think you run the card unless its vs some control

vs control sure you go discard but thats fueling beza

[trail anvil]

idk even if you're going late and the card is dying as you go on, dreadknight is a continuous advantage source for both players and being able to steal a key piece just seems way too good to pass up. especially considering in the mirror you can almost always use it

[twilit canyon]

nah you dont

too many failcase scenarios

even if you are playing combo

[trail anvil]

in theory even if their hand is empty you can gift them a card

[twilit canyon]

thats not good

discard spells as a whole have been in a horrible spot across the board

heist is only really good when you are ahead

otherwise its at best mid and drawing it late its game losing

[trail anvil]

heist is fantastic in the early game either way

idk about ahead lol

heist can make you ahead depending on what you steal

[twilit canyon]

if you want to extract value from heist, you need to be ahead

[trail anvil]

probably does honestly

[twilit canyon]

if you steal

theres a danger to giving an opponent a card in any scenario

especially in a quality midrange deck

even if u snipe a strong card of theirs

they are still deeper in the deck than you

[trail anvil]

I think that's a bigger argument, but the hand info and taking the very best card out of what they have just seems too nuts

[twilit canyon]

and cards are so strong that being in that spot is game losing

[trail anvil]

especially in a meta with an instant kill outside of them having trophy

[twilit canyon]

the same shit happens with grief in modern

[trail anvil]

or frillback maybe

[twilit canyon]

you scam 2 cards and have a 4/3 with menace and you still lose

why?

bc you destroyed your own hand for it

if you were able to play as many bombs as they did, you wouldnt need to discard or take theirs

[trail anvil]

I can't relate to that example as much as I'm not a modern player

[twilit canyon]

cruelclaw's heist is giving up board development and if you want to steal a card, you need to gift it

so that causes 2 problems

1st, if you take something expensive, you didnt take anything

theres a chance you take a nissa or vraska and the game never gets to that point

or even if you cast them its too late

if you take something cheap, it was irrelevant to their gameplan

[trail anvil]

I feel like if you took one of those and the game never gets to that point then you took wrong or you got really damn unlucky with lands

either taking out one piece of the combo (potentially to do it yourself), taking key removal or somehow adapting based on the hand info you just got

[twilit canyon]

hand info doesnt matter in most scenarios unless its free

[trail anvil]

I'm not saying it's free but both players are going +0 in the end

and you get their best card

[twilit canyon]

right and so is grief except you take their best 2 carss

*cards

and you have a 4/3

and its not enough

this is taken to its extreme of course

but in a bomb heavy format, discard gets exponentially worse

[trail anvil]

again I'm not familiar enough with scam in modern to argue that part one way or another

so which kind of format would you say makes discard better

[twilit canyon]

slower formats with weaker value cards but strong payoffs

or, if you can protect the grief with daze fow and fon

[trail anvil]

can you elaborate on weaker value cards and strong payoffs

[twilit canyon]

remember when [[wildgrowth walker]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/xln/216/wildgrowth-walker

Wildgrowth Walker <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Elemental
Whenever a creature you control explores, put a +1/+1 counter on Wildgrowth Walker and you gain 3 life.
"Hear me, stone, root, branch: be the fist of this land. Turn back those who trample upon your domain." —Song of the Shaper
1/3

[twilit canyon]

and pirate vraska

or hydroid krasis?

[trail anvil]

yeah classic sultai

[twilit canyon]

thats what i mean

[trail anvil]

like stealing their krasis with that dimir discard spell

[twilit canyon]

sure, creatures without an etb are basically vanilla

like preacher

but if it is left unchecked, any discard you did is undone

by the card alone

stepping back from preacher even

other quality cards they play will be beating you down

and they are so cheap

even stealing these cards doesnt do much yourself (especially dreadknight)

bc 90% of the time, your opponent gets to play their shit first

and you have no board to show for it

[trail anvil]

so what you're saying is that people should be playing more board presence because of creatures that don't have etbs and need to be removed on sight, either removal or threats of your own. discard spells like heist aren't good because they just give advantage with the gift and effectively don't affect the boardstate

[twilit canyon]

yes. this has been the case for a while now

[trail anvil]

and by extension if people are playing more removal then you need to focus on etbs anyways

[twilit canyon]

we have had extremely good discard spells printed recently

heist isnt new

but the threat quality is just so good that a card like heist is actively falling behind

its why bat is so strong

its a better brainworm

with lifelink flying

it forces removal eventually and can win the game late

and it is a body on board

[trail anvil]

I feel like bat got boosted with innkeeper's talent too

[twilit canyon]

for sure

[trail anvil]

turning into a bigger lifelink racer also gives it more value

[twilit canyon]

bat -> talent

or

[trail anvil]

I think we agree that it's great for this meta

[twilit canyon]

another scenario

bat -> preacher

you're killing preacher here

bat gets even more turns gaining life

this is the core to discard being bad is that bat is basically baby grief

and the reason they need to be this strong to be good is simply bc of how good removal is

and how strong other on-board threats are

this means if your discard isnt immediately contributing to the board, it sucks if it isnt thoughtseize

[trail anvil]

I get where you're coming from in that everything is a threat or an answer so you'd rather develop your own

I think bat is a mandatory 4-of in the mirror, I think we can both agree on that

[twilit canyon]

yea but not bc its discard

[sudden lava]

Only 3 weeks till duskmourn

[twilit canyon]

bc its a flying lifelinker

the discard can be whatever

[trail anvil]

that said, when you're heisting you're still grabbing the best card for the situation, so to me it acts as pillage the bog copies 5-8

the consistency may seem worse because of how many threats you are packing, but I think with a meta like this one where innkeeper combo itself is a parity breaker (or taking their frillback to answer their talent) that gives it a big point in its favor

[twilit canyon]

or you could be playing your own threats to push the combo yourself

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6566924#paper

[subtle sierra]

btw what do we think of [[parting gust]] as removal?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/24/parting-gust

Parting Gust <:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Instant
Gift a tapped Fish (You may promise an opponent a gift as you cast this spell. If you do, they create a tapped 1/1 blue Fish creature token before its other effects.)
Exile target nontoken creature. If the gift wasn't promised, return that creature to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it at the beginning of the next end step.

[subtle sierra]

i've been siding that

[twilit canyon]

cruelclaw's heist is nowhere to be seen

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-golgari-midrange-dmu#paper

[twilit canyon]

its pretty solid

but yeah theres a pretty simple reasoning behind no heist

you dont need it in the mirror

you dont need it vs aggro

it can be okay vs hard control

but even then not every deck is sideboarding it

[trail anvil]

you know, fair enough. I don't see any topping lists running it

while we're on the topic of topping lists though going back to beza, I'm only seeing it as a 2-of in the side for most of these top decks

https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/114221 https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/122253

[twilit canyon]

beza still has to pick up more

the meta will adapt to run more beza as time goes on

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-orzhov-midrange-dmu#paper

some orzhov lists are taking to run both

beza and shelly

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6566923#paper

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6566381#paper

this one in the side but this one is doing some funky stuff anyways

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6562867#paper

this one favors beza over shelly

[trail anvil]

I guess time will tell

[twilit canyon]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6566360#paper

[trail anvil]

gruul looks like it's picking up steam

[twilit canyon]

gruul will have a rough time

if it picks up steam, beza will only get better

[trail anvil]

if it does pick up steam then I see beza shaping up perfectly fine

although I imagine with all that impulse draw you aren't getting the draw effect often lol

[twilit canyon]

even without it

we see beza is already showing up a lot

[sudden lava]

all the dates for duskmourn

[twilit canyon]

p sure this is known

you dont have to post all the dates all the time

[copper pecan]

i didn't know about it

[sudden lava]

^ yeah exactly. Just reminding people we're nearing that time again.

[fallow citrus]

god do wotc ever take a break from releasing product

[twilit canyon]

no

[sudden lava]

The spoiler season never ends

[glad peak]

If you’re not releasing you’re dying

[broken fjord]

Built an WBRG monstrous vortex deck. Very fun. Doors of Durin is crazy, so long as you have a cheap hasty commander

[zinc shard]

Stop asking question, buy buy buy.

[sleek ferry]

The advantage of this is that it makes the failures like markov manor less impactful ig

I talked to my LGS owner too and he said bloomburrow has been just as big of a hit as OTJ

[lusty trench]

Outlaws of thunder junction was a dud where I am so it’s interesting to see new perspectives

[sleek ferry]

That’s crazy tbh. Set was huge for both constructed and commander players

[lusty trench]

I think in the post phyrexia packs era it was like bloomburrow > mh3 > eldraine > ixalan > outlaws > ravnjca remastered >>>>>>>> murders

[lusty trench]

We have no traditional constructed scene, and the tribal theme of ixalan resonated more with our commander players than generic good cards

[sleek ferry]

I would say here it was mh3 > otj > bloomburrow > ixalan > eldraine > murders >>> ravnica remastered

[lusty trench]

Our lgs has boxes of mh3 left, but sold out prerelease night of both types of bloomburrow boxes

They did not have a small allocation of it either

Murders was the worst performer mainly because it has no value in it what so ever and the commander decks were just ehh, so everyone just got the singles they wanted, and moved on

[golden plover]

Yeah murders was a failure of a set tbh

[sleek ferry]

In terms of quality, I would personally rank the sets as
MH3
OTJ
Ixalan

[gritty nest]

The only value card in MKM is [[Warleader’s Call]] I think?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/242/warleaders-call

Warleader's Call <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Enchantment
Creatures you control get +1/+1.
Whenever a creature you control enters, Warleader's Call deals 1 damage to each opponent.
While Aurelia mustered the Boros Legion, Kaya and Kellan raced against the clock, desperate to stave off a war the guilds might not survive.

[golden plover]

And the land cycle

[gritty nest]

The surveils

[twilit canyon]

those are about as expensive as shock lands

[gritty nest]

So I got some more cards today, Impact Tremors, Goblin Bombardment, Warleaders Call, and Rhythm of the Wild

All for Tana Ravos tokens

[trail anvil]

don't forget delney and vein ripper

[gritty nest]

[[Delney]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/12/delney-streetwise-lookout

Delney, Streetwise Lookout <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Human Scout
Creatures you control with power 2 or less can't be blocked by creatures with power 3 or greater.
If an ability of a creature you control with power 2 or less triggers, that ability triggers an additional time.
"It's not a matter of what I know. It's a matter of making it worth my while to tell you."
2/2

[gritty nest]

Wouldn’t really work when I play Ravos and Tana becomes a 3/3

[[Vein Ripper]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/110/vein-ripper

Vein Ripper <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Vampire Assassin
Flying
Ward—Sacrifice a creature.
Whenever a creature dies, target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
"I'm afraid your investigation has reached a dead end."
6/5

[gritty nest]

Oh wait you meant in general

Sorry I’m fucking stupid

I was randomly thinking about my deck

[golden plover]

FINALLY

Saw my second one too and took all their [[Stern Scolding]]s

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/71/stern-scolding

Stern Scolding <:manau:292901508754702338>

Instant
Counter target creature spell with power or toughness 2 or less.
"Fool of a Took! This is a serious journey, not a Hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!"

[golden plover]

Is [[Wrath of the Skies]] bugged rn?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/49/wrath-of-the-skies

Wrath of the Skies <:manax:292901509082120202><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Sorcery
You get X (energy counters), then you may pay any amount of . Destroy each artifact, creature, and enchantment with mana value less than or equal to the amount of paid this way.
Even the weather of Dominaria shifts to assail would-be invaders.

[golden plover]

It showed X = 1 but hit my amulets and bowmasters?

[twilit canyon]

did you pay 2 energy into it

[golden plover]

My opponent played it

I assume they paid 2

But it only showed the one and they didn't have any other energy

It tapped 4 lands, so I'm assuming it was a visual bug

[twilit canyon]

might have been a visual bug then

remember the x is the energy gen. when casting you get 2 menus

first, how much mana to pay for x

then how much energy

[golden plover]

Yeah I assume it was just a visual bug since they would have needed 4 mana to hit 2

And now I'm being held hostage by them

They can't win without phlage

I can just never play a card for the rest of the game and be fine

[twilit canyon]

they can loop teferi and let you deck out

[trail anvil]

that's the OG azorius control wincon

exile all your lands and then self tuck teferi

[twilit canyon]

^

[trail anvil]

well not OG but the true cancer one

[golden plover]

Wait how? They have less cards than me

They also needed 2 teferis for that

And I took their other one earlier

[twilit canyon]

just 1

[trail anvil]

you target itself

[twilit canyon]

teferi tuck is infinite draw

[golden plover]

Oh

They didn't see it I guess

[trail anvil]

what

[golden plover]

They made me play until they decked out

[twilit canyon]

[golden plover]

Had to sit there with my no permanents until they lost

[trail anvil]

[[teferi, hero of dominaria]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mb2/90/teferi-hero-of-dominaria

Teferi, Hero of Dominaria <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Planeswalker — Teferi
+1: Draw a card. At the beginning of the next end step, untap up to two lands.
−3: Put target nonland permanent into its owner's library third from the top.
−8: You get an emblem with "Whenever you draw a card, exile target permanent an opponent controls."
Loyalty: 4

[trail anvil]

how do you run winconless control and not understand how to win lmao

[twilit canyon]

they had phlage

[golden plover]

I assume they win off Phlage 99% of the time now

[twilit canyon]

thats the wincon

[golden plover]

Probably forgot the other line

[trail anvil]

oh lmao

[golden plover]

Honestly they should've scooped when I extracted the phlages ngl

[trail anvil]

welp interaction knowledge issue

[twilit canyon]

crazy so they didnt even run bolts? emperors?

bolt + tamiyo can be a true wincon

[golden plover]

They didn't run Tamiyo

Phlage was the only creature

[twilit canyon]

insane

[golden plover]

Not even subtlety/solitude beat down

[twilit canyon]

or a creature land

[golden plover]

They could've stabilized with subtlety or Solitude

Hopefully they learn from this and fix up the deck lmao

Those 15 turns where I sat and waited for them to deck out were brutal

[twilit canyon]

magic players dont know how to play control

crazy

i feel insane cus im an aggro player at heart yet know control better than these dorks

[golden plover]

I wonder if no one's extracted their phlages before

You gotta run a backup wincon for that lmao

[twilit canyon]

teferi infinite exile

genuinely gonna beat them senseless

eben tamiyo

tamiyo + bolt

flip tamiyo

+2 -> -3 -> +2 -> +2 -> -3

[golden plover]

Is Colonnade on Arena?

That was the classic

[twilit canyon]

no

but we have hall of storm giants

restless anchorage

mirrex

[golden plover]

Ah same goal then

[fallow citrus]

https://x.com/StarCityBen/status/1821954919882002622?t=1aBCadEDqtM1zZi9la4w6g&s=19

Ben Bleiweiss (@StarCityBen) on X

Teferi, Druid of Argoth is a Playtest card in #MTG Mystery Booster 2!

Twitter · Aug 9, 2024, 5:01 PM

[zinc shard]

Tbh I'd love a "What If" set where the planeswalkers were from different planes/were different colors

[glad peak]

planar chaos post planeswalker cards?

love it

[sudden lava]

Which deck should I bring to commander party Bloomburrow? Jesakai time counters (Clara10), Temur Paradox (Yasmin13), Mothman, or Ms. Bumbleflower?

[trail anvil]

if it's bloomburrow I guess bumbleflower

[stark skiff]

Bloomburrow codes

[sudden lava]

guess that makes sense, bloomburrow commander for the bloomburrow party. Keep it on theme ignoring the many humans in the decklistand all ❤️

[subtle sierra]

god mtga's auto tap is so ass

i just lost a game cause of it

[trail anvil]

yeah rip

[stark skiff]

Any of the regulars want a BB code?

[golden plover]

The amount of times it's tapped all my red lands with a bolt in hand is crazy

[subtle sierra]

pog

[golden plover]

Yeah sure buddy why not

[sudden lava]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUthq27WUAAftIU?format=jpg&name=medium

little trash panda sleeping on a pile of cards

[stark skiff]

Lucky they’re lands cause you’d be fucked if they were enchantments

[sudden lava]

Orzhov lands to, so they cant cast their family

[twilit canyon]

yoinked

[sleek ferry]

Alright I have a deck idea

[sudden lava]

Finally watching the Bloomburrow game knights episode

[sleek ferry]

But I don’t have the wild cards for it

[sudden lava]

geeze

That is one huge wolf

and DrLupo has a damage tripler on board

[stark skiff]

Was pretty decent but the initial targeting of Jimmy was kinda dumb but I get it it happens irl too lol

[sudden lava]

Olivia played it well at the end

[zinc shard]

The Jimmy hate was ridiculous

There were a few points where I would've just picked up my cards and left

[trail anvil]

yeah I felt sorry for him that episode, I've been there before lol

all over an eiganjo

[glad peak]

Sounds like a normal table to me

[trail anvil]

I know one person in my regular pods who does that but otherwise they usually aren't that petty

[lusty trench]

It’s strange too cause Beza isn’t a commander that can suddenly spiral out of nowhere

Out of all of those commanders I’d focus wildsear to try and deal with them before they can out value with the cascade

[zinc shard]

"Don't block with your commander or it will die"

Blocks with Commander
Dies
Shocked Pikachu face

[trail anvil]

it's okay though he doesn't like being told what to do

[trail anvil]

yeah it was pure petty

[trail anvil]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6414912#paper how is the tricky terrain precon still going for as cheap as it is? even considering that these prices are a bit inflated, the value lands and reprints alone probably match up with the price

I'm still seeing it on target's website for like $72, when I preordered it it was $40

[glad peak]

There’s only like $30-70 worth of cards people are looking for so makes sense

[sleek ferry]

Thinking of something like this, but I need like 8 more wildcards to even consider this

[twilit canyon]

this isnt a mockingbird deck at all

i think your core for any white/x list should include caretaker's talent

[sleek ferry]

Well the theory behind mockingbird in that slot was just versatility. IE: copying a glissa or similar threat and putting pressure on the opponent that way. It’s either that or just cutting mockingbird completely for 4 three steps ahead which was the other consideration

[twilit canyon]

i know the theory and its not good

you want to use mockingbird to copy your own threats

dont rely on your opponent

but you dont have 1-2 mana threats

[stark skiff]

Whoever wants to yoink another BB code

[stark skiff]

Last one

[sudden lava]

btw is it only 1 of these codes per account? Or do they stack

[zinc shard]

You can do multiple

[sudden lava]

oh 😅 I should try to take some of these in case I go back to Arena

[sudden lava]

collector sample pulls

[clever sun]

Got any more pixels?

[sleek ferry]

Well I got my 15 wins for the day

Time to wait till tomorrow

[clever sun]

You grind out the fifteen?

I'm pretty sure you only need the first four or five

[sleek ferry]

Yeah I just do it since I’m doing my ranked climb anyways

[golden plover]

Isn't it 10?

10 gets you gold cap

[sleek ferry]

Usually cycle between 3 decks to keep it fresh

[sudden lava]

Saw the new shark token art, damn now I wish we got a calamity beast shark as an actual card

[trail anvil]

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1eq1h8x/rovina_cai_just_won_the_hugo_best_professional/ very deserved

[broken fjord]

Felt a teensy bit bad stopping a win attempt yesterday. Guy has like 70 life. Casts Test of Endurance, then tries to TP out. I cast Filter Out, also bouncing a couple walkers, and a few rocks.

He felt bad the rest of the day

[trail anvil]

I mean that's just the reality of alt wincons unfortunately

if you cast one it needs to be answered appropriately

[broken fjord]

Oh yeah. He understands. But I tend to be the guy that stops his wins. Had another case where he drew 50 cards with Arcanis(intruder alarm) on someone else's turn. I use Arcum Dagson to tutor out an apple of eden on my turn. He scoops

Game before that I commandeered his turn 1 sol ring

[trail anvil]

lmao now that just sounds mean

[broken fjord]

The sol ring one was a meme play. But it tilted him hard

Anyway, yesterday was rough on the guy. The next game in another pod, he tries to win with Bolas' Citadel activated ability. Opponent responds with Everybody Lives

He got dogged on a few times

[stark skiff]

finally got my foil Flubs

the GOAT

[glad peak]

eh if he regularly plays alt win cons or huge win cons then he should be expected to get stopped

[broken fjord]

He's aware. He still feels bad.

He's right to be frustrated with the sol ring play, though I don't regret it.

[glad peak]

the sol ring play is just funny lol

[trail anvil]

ngl if I was on the receiving end of that sol ring play I'd be legitimately mad at you, doing something annoying for the meme is still doing something really annoying

[glad peak]

also, i don't understand why people get mad when their must kill commander gets stopped by their commander or combo piece being killed as if they weren't just going to snowball out of control if it didn't happen

like a niv player getting mad their niv gets killed in response to curiousity targetting niv

[broken fjord]

I accepted that. He's a good acquaintance of mine, so it's not like I was doing it to a random guy.

I hold myself back a fair bit for the benefit of my friends, tbh. Because while I really like making plays that make people mad, I'm not so socially inept as to thinking it's a good idea to do that to friends.

My favorite playstyle is hard stax, but I don't bring stax to pods.

[zinc shard]

Otters too stronk

[trail anvil]

ral in draft 👌

[zinc shard]

p1p1

went 5-3, had to Mulligan to 4 in my last game

[modern minnow]

I think p1p1 ral is like the only thing that would put me into otters

[trail anvil]

oh you can't get bria in packs can you

[stark skiff]

nope

[golden plover]

Jesus Christ this was suffering

We were stalemated for like 20 turns until I finally drew [[Scavenger's Talent]] and decked them out

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/111/scavengers-talent

Scavenger's Talent <:manab:292901508872273920>

Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
Whenever one or more creatures you control die, create a Food token. This ability triggers only once each turn.
: Level 2
Whenever you sacrifice a permanent, target player mills two cards.
: Level 3
At the beginning of your end step, you may sacrifice three other nonland permanents. If you do, return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield with a finality counter on it.

[golden plover]

Note that I had a single card left in deck

[subtle sierra]

ok i got innkeepers into vraska for the first time

that is fucking stupid

(i didn't know what wincon is that and didn't remove the innkeeper's 😔 )

anyway L bozo get bonked

[golden plover]

Hmm I'm toying with swapping the 2 swords to plowshares in this deck for path to exiles

Only because it comes up a lot that the opponent will stack the deck with something like [[Mystic Sanctuary]] and forget that grabbing the ramp loses them the stacked card

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mb2/110/mystic-sanctuary

Mystic Sanctuary

Land — Island
(: Add .)
Mystic Sanctuary enters tapped unless you control three or more other Islands.
When Mystic Sanctuary enters untapped, you may put target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard on top of your library.

[golden plover]

Actually that seems better, yeah

4-7 life is a big gain

And forcing them to choose between ramp and keeping the stacked card is tough

[sleek ferry]

Well I got my 15 wins today within 2 hours

I was just meme-ing with an abzan planeswalker deck

[golden plover]

Oh the legends article confirms that Gev and Hugs are dating

[[Zinnia]] is non-binary

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blc/4/zinnia-valleys-voice

Zinnia, Valley's Voice <:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Bird Bard
Flying
Zinnia, Valley's Voice gets +X/+0, where X is the number of other creatures you control with base power 1.
Creature spells you cast have offspring . (You may pay an additional as you cast a creature spell. If you do, when that creature enters, create a 1/1 token copy of it.)
1/3

[golden plover]

Mrs Bumbleflower and Mr Foxglove are not quite dating but keep "seeing each other at odd hours"

[lusty trench]

https://tenor.com/view/proud-prozd-mad-fucking-gif-14240714

[golden plover]

Flubs has some form of multiversal frog gang

Well they might not be all frogs

Might be his tarot gang?

[[Baylen]] is also non-binary

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/205/baylen-the-haymaker

Baylen, the Haymaker <:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Rabbit Warrior
Tap two untapped tokens you control: Add one mana of any color.
Tap three untapped tokens you control: Draw a card.
Tap four untapped tokens you control: Put three +1/+1 counters on Baylen, the Haymaker. It gains trample until end of turn.
4/3

[modern minnow]

im so down for the tarot gang

[golden plover]

I like the idea of them but I also still want Tezzeret and Kasmina's gangs

[lusty trench]

https://www.ign.com/articles/dungeons-dragons-magic-the-gathering-secret-lair-spoiler-reveal

Did someone say lair with no value?

Lair is worth £14 at most

[copper pecan]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948945461597831218/1272626121736847563/20240812_204132.jpg?ex=66bba8ef&is=66ba576f&hm=1446032ebd4c9b5f5f89c7a095fa3d08d2ba48ebf68a6d1845540897e9e8f651&=&format=webp&width=476&height=662

bloomburrow alchemy previews are starting

[lusty trench]

I'm sorry what

[twilit canyon]

yooo

[trail anvil]

this would be busted in lor lol

[trail anvil]

are we just gonna say this for every secret lair now

[lusty trench]

The phrase will be repeated until product improves (seriously though, I think I'm losing the enjoyment from it now, shit is just depressing)

I was looking forward to these lairs too

[trail anvil]

idk man after the last few dozen secret lairs and last few dozen times this statement was made I don't think the product is intended for value reprints, just a thought

[lusty trench]

The issue is though it was

It was exactly that, but they slowly changed their tactics to give less and less and it sucks to see

[trail anvil]

even if that's the case what does making that comment on literally every single secret lair here accomplish

venting is one thing but this comment has been made every single time a secret lair has been talked about here for god knows how long

[golden plover]

I always forget alchemy cards are just turbo pushed

4 mana 5/5 trample with nothing but upsides

[copper pecan]

yeah it's starting to get really annoying ngl

[trail anvil]

maybe slots into gruul gas tribal

[golden plover]

https://preview.redd.it/e5cfcvibn9id1.png?auto=webp&s=8202fe54c7946424dff3230d5360a96b15a535e2

Lol lmao even

These decks are 18,000 gems

[last glen]

are the dinosaurs cool

(I already have a Pioneer dinosaurs deck)

[trail anvil]

you probably have the cards

[golden plover]

18,000 gems is roughly $100 btw

[last glen]

very cool Wizardos

[golden plover]

How the fuck are you gonna sell digital precons at $100

Well it's actually $100

Since you can't get 18,000, you've gotta do 20k

Dinosaurs is 5k gems

[lusty trench]

To be fair it's legit all I can think of to say about this lair

[golden plover]

The brawl deck prices feel completely random

Zada is 2k ($20) and the other two are 4k

[twilit canyon]

it scales based on cards in collection

im p sure these will cost me 0

or close to

[golden plover]

Yeah but "great for new players" at $20 - $80ish per deck is kinda fucked

$20 feels like it should be the hard-line max for a digital precon ngl

[twilit canyon]

why would they?

[golden plover]

Because it's not physical cards

[twilit canyon]

it makes no business sense since ppl pay for them anyways

[golden plover]

$40 gets you a physical commander precon

An arena precon is not worth nearly as much

[twilit canyon]

itd be one thing if it didnt sell

but it does

so clearly theres no reason to drop the price

• if u later reduce the price, u can be seen as generous

even if it should have been the lower price from the get-go

[trail anvil]

then why comment on it tbh

I thought incorporating old dnd art was cool

[gritty nest]

Has the dnd lairs been revealed yet

[trail anvil]

yea https://www.ign.com/articles/dungeons-dragons-magic-the-gathering-secret-lair-spoiler-reveal

[golden plover]

Ehh, I dunno. HS did precons in the adventures and the whole thing was like $20. And LoR used to do precons for $10

I can't remember if Master Duel did them

Duel Links did them for like $5 per 3 copies of a structure deck

[gritty nest]

goldspan
monster manual
acererack
“This lair has no value!!!!”

What?

[golden plover]

$20-$80 feels massively expensive for a digital card game

[last glen]

Master Duel follows the physical product SD formula
deck with one-ofs
expectation is you buy three

[sudden lava]

https://tenor.com/view/hey-fox-rabbit-zootopia-gif-8142382

[golden plover]

How much do they cost in MD?

[last glen]

500 gems each

[golden plover]

What's that in USD?

[last glen]

Lemme check

[trail anvil]

it's my headcanon that fox shows up on bumble's balcony like in a cheesy play

[trail anvil]

I feel like the usd value is a lot less relevant when it's the cost of just 15 packs for 3

[golden plover]

Looks like it's about 100 gems per USD from what I can find

So it's like roughly $15?

[twilit canyon]

yes but these are poverty card games

[last glen]

1500 gems is (a little less than) half of the rewards from a major event

[twilit canyon]

they dont dominate the psace that mtg does

not even close

[golden plover]

Oh so you can get it for free then

Crazy

[trail anvil]

LoR is a literally dead game too

[golden plover]

Yeah true

But MD isn't and $15 is a big difference from $80

[trail anvil]

one of the few times the monetization model wasn't aggressive enough surprisingly

[last glen]

if you're #OnThatGrind
you can get like 140 gems daily in MD

[trail anvil]

like misty said it's better to start high and go lower than the other way around

[golden plover]

Apparently the list of highest grossing digital TCGs goes Marvel Snap, then MD, then Arena

True, I just think $80 is a crazy fucking asking price

[last glen]

LoR had both a free and paid/premium currency, right?

[trail anvil]

didn't they say it also discounts based on what you own or did I misread that

[golden plover]

Oh wait I was wrong. It's Snap, then MD, then DL, then Arena

[golden plover]

They did but didn't say by how much

[trail anvil]

afaik every game does

it's a good model to attract customers from different tax brackets

[last glen]

MD doesn't
which is kinda wack, thinking about it

[golden plover]

Also it's literally cheaper to build that toxic deck in paper lmao

[last glen]

it's just gems
which are both earnable and purchasable

[golden plover]

By a good $20ish too

[trail anvil]

oh yeah I guess they're weird, but it technically is. just they made it one currency for some reason

[golden plover]

I guess that'd be different if they included Sheoldred and stuff, but that feels wacky to me

[trail anvil]

I'm just wondering why they chose toxic of all decks. dinosaurs makes sense as stompy

[twilit canyon]

the toxic deck performs decently

[trail anvil]

I think a lot of decks perform decently

getting new players on toxic is certainly a decision

[last glen]

okay so 1500 gems in MD is functionally like $25
which is pretty steep
but it's also like 12 days worth of daily logins and missions
and that's not counting events

[golden plover]

Oh looking at the math, it's also just cheaper to dump everything into packs and use the WCs from there

Like this isn't even a deal

[last glen]

is that your gem cost
or the base cost without discounts?

[golden plover]

You're outright better just buying the packs outright

That's assuming 0 WCs and 0 gems to start with

Assuming you've got 0 cards in any of the decks you're better off just buying random packs and getting the WCs that way

And buying packs will also get you random rares/mythics

[trail anvil]

this product is designed for people who will use their wallet to skip wildcard grinds

they will help keep arena free to play

[golden plover]

I guess that's fair. Just seems like a bad deal all around

[trail anvil]

let them take it, or they don't and then wizards realizes they need a better price. likely it won't affect you

[last glen]

oh
the decks aren't in the client yet

I wanted to see the list

[golden plover]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-august-12-2024

They're in here

Not too sure what a dinosaur deck looks like in standard, but it's... Something

I have no clue what the Zada deck is trying to do

It's closer to a Krenko deck but it's still weird

[trail anvil]

nah they have the spells to plus off zada too

that said my current zada build is a lot closer to regular monored aggro because you need a backup plan in case zada gets removed/a way to apply pressure if you can't land zada

[golden plover]

There's a decent bit

But it's got a lot of goblin tribal stuff too

[last glen]

Dinosaur list looks fine
I'd replace the lorekeepers with elves when the foundations set hits
And I'm not as familiar with the spell suite in standard

But the bodies are mostly what I'd go for, I think

The manabase looks stinky
but again, not familiar with standard manabases

[golden plover]

No [[Tranquil Frillback]]?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mat/24/tranquil-frillback

Tranquil Frillback <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Dinosaur
When Tranquil Frillback enters, you may pay up to three times. When you pay this cost one or more times, choose up to that many —
• Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
• Exile target player's graveyard.
• You gain 4 life.
3/3

[last glen]

Yeah that's a big omission
It's a huge utility piece

Rampaging raptors is also a pretty stinky endgame

[golden plover]

Do dinos not run [[Tyrannax Rex]] as a topend either?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/one/189/tyrranax-rex

Tyrranax Rex <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Phyrexian Dinosaur
This spell can't be countered.
Trample, ward , haste
Toxic 4 (Players dealt combat damage by this creature also get four poison counters.)
8/8