Magic the Gathering

[gritty nest]

Didn’t own one at the time I’ve throwing it together

Didn’t have birds or another Wubrg dork

[trail anvil]

fair enough then

https://archidekt.com/decks/8558627/edhbumbleflower what do you think about my bumbleflower list

it's half of my blown up gluntch list

[gritty nest]

I won’t be able to give a good answer since group hug isn’t naturally my deal (fuck giving my opponents things) but I’ll take a look

Page not found

[trail anvil]

o hold on

ok should be fixed

[gritty nest]

Yep I see it

Basically bant 1/1 counters by giving opponents cards and hoping to either keep up or out value your opponents with the value you’re giving?

[trail anvil]

ye typical group hug of "everyone benefits but I benefit more"

[gritty nest]

Looks neat, you could maybe add hardened scales for more counters?

And or [[Ozolith, Shattered Spire]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mom/198/ozolith-the-shattered-spire

Ozolith, the Shattered Spire <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Artifact
If one or more +1/+1 counters would be put on an artifact or creature you control, that many plus one +1/+1 counters are put on it instead.
, : Put a +1/+1 counter on target artifact or creature you control. Activate only as a sorcery.
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

[gritty nest]

So I learned something really dumb with zinnia that I want to do

And it’s only because helm came in the precon

[[Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation]] + Helm of the Host + offspring [[Witty Roastmaster]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/26/ojer-taq-deepest-foundation-temple-of-civilization

Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — God
Vigilance
If one or more creature tokens would be created under your control, three times that many of those tokens are created instead.
When Ojer Taq dies, return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed under its owner's control.
6/6

Temple of Civilization
Land
(Transforms from Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation.)
: Add .
, : Transform Temple of Civilization. Activate only if you attacked with three or more creatures this turn and only as a sorcery.
Chimil gave the Oltec life. Ojer Taq taught them how to live together.

https://scryfall.com/card/snc/131/witty-roastmaster

Witty Roastmaster <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Creature — Devil Citizen
Alliance — Whenever another creature you control enters, Witty Roastmaster deals 1 damage to each opponent.
If you're lucky, you'll walk out with just your ego singed.
3/2

[glad peak]

Hold on, if you blink flubs do you get another free land drop?

[gritty nest]

Idk

[trail anvil]

maybe if I were going harder into counters tbh

[gritty nest]

Fair point

I would maybe invest into OG Ozolith at minimum to not lose everything

But that’s my preference, having redundancy

[trail anvil]

maybe, would work well with simic ascendancy

[broken fjord]

You should

It's a new flubs as far as the game is concerned

[gritty nest]

I hate TCGplayer mobile app

Reset itself in the middle of shopping and wiped my cart

[trail anvil]

rip that sucks

I somehow didn't realize bumbleflower gives the creatures she puts +1 counters on flying holy fuck

this commander is cracked

[gritty nest]

What about [[Mr Foxglove]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blc/6/mr-foxglove

Mr. Foxglove <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Fox Rogue
Lifelink
Whenever Mr. Foxglove attacks, draw cards equal to the number of cards in defending player's hand minus the number of cards in your hand. If you didn't draw cards this way, you may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.
3/5

[trail anvil]

this guy's a weird one, haven't run into him yet

I get the impression that you're using the second effect a lot more often though in bant lol

[gritty nest]

Probably

He’s the alternate commander of the actual group hug precon I believe

[trail anvil]

yep

[gritty nest]

[[Arthur, Marigold Knight]] is the alternate commander for offspring

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blc/5/arthur-marigold-knight

Arthur, Marigold Knight <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Mouse Knight
Haste
Whenever Arthur, Marigold Knight and at least one other creature attack, look at the top six cards of your library. You may put a creature card from among them onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. Return that creature to its owner's hand at end of combat.
4/5

[gritty nest]

I know the card it’s basically like but can’t remember the name

[trail anvil]

jesus christ it's jason bourne sneak attack

or balanced winota

[gritty nest]

[[winota]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces

Winota, Joiner of Forces <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Human Warrior
Whenever a non-Human creature you control attacks, look at the top six cards of your library. You may put a Human creature card from among them onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. It gains indestructible until end of turn. Put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your library in a random order.
4/4

[gritty nest]

Idk winota looks pretty bad

[glad peak]

I like Arthur more because you can double dip dockside

Just like zinnia

[gritty nest]

I’ll double- my lawyer advised me not to finish the joke

[glad peak]

Do it you coward

[gritty nest]

I’ll double dip something else

[trail anvil]

shoot if you wanted to double dip dockside it's just time to play [[mockingbird]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/61/mockingbird

Mockingbird <:manax:292901509082120202><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Bird Bard
Flying
You may have Mockingbird enter as a copy of any creature on the battlefield with mana value less than or equal to the mana spent to cast Mockingbird, except it is a Bird in addition to its other types and has flying.
"Laughing at you? No, no, I'm laughing as you!"
1/1

[trail anvil]

buy this card up before it spikes hard because people realize how good it is 😎

[sleek ferry]

[[bumbleflower]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blc/3/ms-bumbleflower

Ms. Bumbleflower <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Rabbit Citizen
Vigilance
Whenever you cast a spell, target opponent draws a card. Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. It gains flying until end of turn. If this is the second time this ability has resolved this turn, you draw two cards.
1/5

[gritty nest]

Didn’t this come in the Jeskai precon?

[trail anvil]

idk but it's in the main set

apparently not

[gritty nest]

It did not

I need that for the deck

[sleek ferry]

Mocking bird is solid

It’s like the 4th or 5th best clone

[gritty nest]

What’s the best ones?

[sleek ferry]

Phyrexian metalmorph and flesh duplicate for sure

https://youtu.be/bNj6QjvlfYo?si=nVBVjyXBwIizNsO9

[glad peak]

Idk I think it might be second best after image

Just because you can clone dockside for cheaper than the other options

I’m surprised it hasn’t spiked but clones in general don’t really spike even if really good

[trail anvil]

oof that was a short game lol

[barren cairn]

trying to turn my kitt kanto precon deck into a baylen deck

since kitt kanto was too passive and i think baylen could be interesting

[glad peak]

[[kitt kanto]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/4/kitt-kanto-mayhem-diva

Kitt Kanto, Mayhem Diva <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Cat Bard Druid
When Kitt Kanto enters, create a 1/1 green and white Citizen creature token.
At the beginning of combat on each player's turn, you may tap two untapped creatures you control. When you do, target creature that player controls gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn. Goad that creature.
3/3

[glad peak]

The builds would be a bit different

Since baylen doesn’t care about what type of tokens, treasure gets much better, especially since treasures are easier to make

[gritty nest]

So I ordered some cards for Bello

[trail anvil]

or foods, especially in naya

[trail anvil]

what'd you get

[gritty nest]

This stuff

[trail anvil]

nevinyrral's disk during your turn sounds crazy good

[gritty nest]

Yes

I found one in my bulk right after ordering and went

“Fuck”

I thought about adding this gnome artifact dude

[[threefold thunderhulk]] I think

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/lci/265/threefold-thunderhulk

Threefold Thunderhulk <:mana7:292901508540792835>

Artifact Creature — Gnome
Threefold Thunderhulk enters with three +1/+1 counters on it.
Whenever Threefold Thunderhulk enters or attacks, create a number of 1/1 colorless Gnome artifact creature tokens equal to its power.
, Sacrifice another artifact: Put a +1/+1 counter on Threefold Thunderhulk.
0/0

[gritty nest]

Yea this

Because it’ll become a 7/7 that makes 7 gnomes when it attacks

[trail anvil]

this has happened a number of times with me, but at least they were cheap cards lol

[trail anvil]

ooh that sounds insanely fun

[gritty nest]

True

I almost ordered a $20 card once before finding 6 of them in my bulk

[barren cairn]

Ye fair

I'll tweak stuff but it seems good at creating creature tokens so

Probably remove the goad subtheme stuff to fit in food and treasure generators

[atomic harness]

Oh what buffs thunderhulk?

to become le 7/7

[gritty nest]

[[Bello]]

[lost widget]

Multiple cards match “Bello”, can you be more specific?

[gritty nest]

[[Bello, Bard of the Brambles]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blc/1/bello-bard-of-the-brambles

Bello, Bard of the Brambles <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Raccoon Bard
During your turn, each non-Equipment artifact and non-Aura enchantment you control with mana value 4 or greater is a 4/4 Elemental creature in addition to its other types and has indestructible, haste, and "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, draw a card."
3/3

[gritty nest]

since its a 7 mana artifact Bello makes it a 4/4, then Thunderhulks own 1/1 counters make it a 7/7

[atomic harness]

Neat

[gritty nest]

and ill make 7 gnomes

gnome turbo

[gritty nest]

what do you guys think of the "dies to removal" argument?

[twilit canyon]

its very valid for non-commander and in more powerful formats when talking about very specific scenarios

mostly when discussing the viability of a creature in comparison to others

[hidden ermine]

It's a thought-terminating cliche but there is a bit of truth to it

[gritty nest]

So pretty much card dependent and both a flimsy but solid argument?

[trail anvil]

I think it's dependent on a ton of things, I don't ever think "dies to removal" is ever viable without considering context

like sheoldred is a creature that has no etb and is 4 mana in the same meta as boros aggro and a very solid suite of removal. all that said, black is jam packed with value creatures that draw out said removal and she's fantastic at ending games

[gritty nest]

It was about Bello and how I said I think Bello and Zinnia are probably the strongest decks out the box

He said Bello is not as good because he’s super commander reliant and dies off to constant removal

[trail anvil]

I mean are we just assuming that the artifacts and enchantments are doing nothing at all when bello is not on the board

he animates on the turn he comes down, which is big

[gritty nest]

As in not swinging in and killing at least 1 player by turn 5?

No he’s dead to removal

Sorry that’s rude

[trail anvil]

also he's only 3 mana while being green when you're already running ramp

[gritty nest]

I pointed out that you’d actually need the removal on hand and assuming the Bello player doesn’t have countermeasures and doesn’t have lethal

[trail anvil]

I think the bigger issue is that he only animates on your turn so you're kinda shields down at other points, but that's what your other stuff is for ig

[gritty nest]

Like threefold and other creatures

I feel like it’s fine because of how quickly Bello gets out of hand

The card draw + fat bodies with haste is what makes it dumb

At least in my opinion it does

[trail anvil]

well ye prolly

[gritty nest]

If he didn’t give the card draw then I’d agree he’s kinda mid

But the fact he gives 2 keywords and draw is what makes him insane

Like if I’m being stupid correct me

[trail anvil]

well that and people typically don't run mass enchantment removal

so the threats just stay there until the white player manages to find farewell, if they do

[gritty nest]

If they do yea

[twilit canyon]

if this is about commander u can and should ignore it

unless ur talking cedh level

it not gonna matter

[gritty nest]

Out the box precons

lol

[twilit canyon]

even at a cedh level, think about the fact that one of the most meta commanders ever is tymna

[[tymna the weaver]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver

Tymna the Weaver <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Cleric
Lifelink
At the beginning of your second main phase, you may pay X life, where X is the number of opponents that were dealt combat damage this turn. If you do, draw X cards.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
2/2

[gritty nest]

I was mainly curious on if I’m stupid for thinking that “dies to removal” is a mixed bag argument in commander tbh

[twilit canyon]

no etb with a shit stat line

still broken

[twilit canyon]

in commander it should be completely ignored imo

especially when talking about commanders even moreso outside of cedh

[gritty nest]

Yea I figured that was the case

But I know I’m not the smartest player

[trail anvil]

tbh as long as you're not playing draft chaff in commander you're probably fine anyways

[gritty nest]

True

I’m still adding greaves swiftfoot to Bello because protection is nice

[trail anvil]

tbh I don't blame you. even if you can easily replay him, removing him during combat is a pain in the ass

it's the same reason why I'm absolutely in love with kutzil rn. the draw effect is obviously very relevant, but the grand abolisher effect has genuinely been s-tier

[gritty nest]

He was 13 mana the first game I had played him and got removed again

It was a 2 hour long game at that point and instead of playing even longer and winning I scooped up because it was 12:30 at night

Dude got pissed when I said I’m scooping up and didn’t want to Keep playing with myself

[twilit canyon]

another reason i dont do casual much. very rare for cedh games to go on that long

we've had ppl asks us how many games we played and we'd say 10 and they'd say theres no way but we were already shuffling up for 11 and before even a 2nd casual game got going we were on 12

[gritty nest]

See I don’t usually mind longer games but it was the time mainly

Shop was about to close and dude wanted to keep playing

“Uh no, I’m leaving and I want my zinnia deck back as well.” (Same dude who got mad was borrowing the zinnia deck)

[trail anvil]

for me the sweet spot is somewhere between 2-3 games a night tbh

some games do go on too long, but I like them going on long enough to the point where the deck is doing the thing

[twilit canyon]

thats the beauty of a cedh list is that u get to have all decks do their thing so fast generally so u get more games in

sure sometimes it turns into a more drawn out midrange fest but

still resolves quicker than any casual game

anyways, sidetracked

back to removal argument

there are only a few spots where its truly valid

1. you are talking about constructed 60 card formats
2. you are comparing apples to apples aka creatures with a similar role or competing for a slot
3. context of popular removal options and what removal spells are killing this card

[gritty nest]

Fair enough

In 60 card formats removal is way more prevalent im guessing

[twilit canyon]

yes

[gritty nest]

Makes sense

I still might see about getting the AC modern starter kit

My friend bought the only one from our LGS and tore it apart for stuff in commander

Note: they found nothing worthwhile in the decks

[trail anvil]

oh no don't buy that

those have like 2 playable cards total, they're cheeks if you're not using them to teach new players

[gritty nest]

I mean I figured they’d be a decent starting point for 60 card constructed

But what do you recommend?

[twilit canyon]

for modern?

depends on your playstyle

[trail anvil]

if it's the one I'm thinking of, that one is legitimately just a few decent cards and stuff not even good enough to be considered draft chaff

[twilit canyon]

yea the ac decks suck

[trail anvil]

singles, probably lol

if you really want to get some kind of product maybe some mh3 packs? you aren't gonna get a deck out of them obviously but they've seemed like a decent return with how many meta relevant cards they contain

[gritty nest]

I’d rather outright buy singles lol

How expensive is it for a modern deck that’s good but not trying to be competitive?

Or at that point would a different constructed format be better to try lol

[trail anvil]

if you want to get into any constructed format, why not try standard on arena for free?

you'll learn a lot with no real investment needed besides time

[gritty nest]

That’s on iOS right?

[trail anvil]

yep!

[gritty nest]

I will look into it

[trail anvil]

well at least on apple computers, not 100% sure about iphone but should be easy enough to find out lol

[gritty nest]

It does

Apparently I’ve installed it before

I’m heading off to bed now, goodnight everyone

[trail anvil]

night

[sleek ferry]

I exclusively play on iPhone

It’s fine

[gritty nest]

Ah alright

[glad peak]

Depends on what type of deck you’re looking for, prices for, every deck are in the $400-1500 category unless you’re playing something jank combo in which case it could be much lower

[golden plover]

https://preview.redd.it/c7wklo4lsffd1.png?auto=webp&s=5cc7dc550fdd65d47626b97111ad6fbdfb5405f0

[broken fjord]

Oh, looks like they erratad Wheel of Potential

[golden plover]

Yeah, it requires you paying any number of Energy and not X now

Makes sense, since "X" energy isn't defined in the rules

[golden plover]

Man, I love when custommagic takes one of the strongest cards ever printed and makes it STRONGER

Something something MH4 moment

The downside for black lotus was that it was only once and done what if I got it forever

[glad peak]

So for a whole 0 mana you can

Play 3 utility lands

Maybe tutor for 1 if you don’t have any in grave or hand

[twilit canyon]

instant speed too

hello dark depths

[golden plover]

In any format it's legal it's a t1 Marit Lage

[barren cairn]

[golden plover]

In modern, it's t1 Tron

[twilit canyon]

need to draw depths first

but you can play crop rot for it

[golden plover]

You only need to draw 1 of the three

Doesn't necessarily have to be depths

Worst case scenario is "crack a fetch t1, start the game with 4 lands"

Wait I've got a good one

T1 on the draw, you play [[Wasteland]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ema/248/wasteland

Wasteland

Land
: Add .
, Sacrifice Wasteland: Destroy target nonbasic land.
"The land promises nothing and keeps its promise." —Oracle en-Vec

[golden plover]

Now you start with 3 lands, they're down 1, and you can immediately snipe their T2 land drop also

[trail anvil]

[[dark depths]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/244/dark-depths

Dark Depths

Legendary Snow Land
Dark Depths enters with ten ice counters on it.
: Remove an ice counter from Dark Depths.
When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, create Marit Lage, a legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying and indestructible.

[trail anvil]

it's obviously busted but why t1 marit lage? another land that removes counters?

[golden plover]

[[Thespian's Stage]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/327/thespians-stage

Thespian's Stage

Land
: Add .
, : Thespian's Stage becomes a copy of target land, except it has this ability.
Amid rumors of war, the third act of The Absolution of the Guildpact was quickly rewritten as a tragedy.

[golden plover]

Your third grab is [[Ancient Tomb]] if possible

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/uma/236/ancient-tomb

Ancient Tomb

Land
: Add . Ancient Tomb deals 2 damage to you.
There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead. —Vec tomb inscription

[trail anvil]

ah

[golden plover]

That was the combo anyways

Thespian's Stage becomes Depths, and you've got a Marit Lage before they have an answer

I'm pretty sure the combo still sees play in legacy iirc, but not as much

Yeah the lands deck still does it

[glad peak]

You can play like 3 different types of ancient tombs in this build (even the bad one) so it’s actually a matter of mulligan for the 4 of and you’re likely to have at least another piece in hand

[trail anvil]

wait I've had this the entire time in omo lmao

[glad peak]

And since all you need is 2 mana for 1, there’s tomb, traitors, budget traitors, any positive mana rock, any 1 mana ritual, any spirit guide

[trail anvil]

question -- do you need to send the original dark depths to the graveyard

[twilit canyon]

play depths for turn

[trail anvil]

since it's legendary and you need to sac for the effect

[twilit canyon]

or any green source -> crop rotation sack it go get depths

[trail anvil]

ik

I'm asking if you need to send for legendary before you sac the thespian's stage copy

[gritty nest]

You send the OG due to legend rule

Then the copy dies to make marit lage

[golden plover]

Yeah

You'll lose both depths

But they're staring down a 20/20 flying indestructible

I assume you've won

[twilit canyon]

at instant speed too

[trail anvil]

well I'm asking mostly cause I have this in omo lol

I can actually do it multiple times in theory

[twilit canyon]

how it works specifically

you have dark depths in play and have stage become a copy of it

while its a copy, it would have no ice counters

you legends rule of course sending the og

but bc it has no ice counters, it then dies to make marit lage

[gritty nest]

I took the tron lands out of omo and kept the dark depths combo tbh

[broken fjord]

I kept the tron lands in my omo.

[trail anvil]

I can't take the tron lands out, it's way too much mana on demand

[gritty nest]

Fair

[broken fjord]

It's super easy to do

And it's consistent

If Planar Nexus wasn't a thing, I'd take them out. That land is crazy

[trail anvil]

or y'know, your commander is a planar nexus on legs

[gritty nest]

That’s fair

I might re-add them

[broken fjord]

I managed to assemble the timber protector and lord of the unreal board in my last omo game.

With Grolnok out, too. So much advantage

[gritty nest]

My friend said they’re not going to play against Bello anymore

Stonks?

[lusty trench]

? Bello is tame

[trail anvil]

skill issue tbh

[lusty trench]

Me when I can single target removal it to end their entire combat

[gritty nest]

I’m adding stuff like [[Dual Nature]] and [[Life Finds A Way]] to copy the enchantments and artifacts

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/112/dual-nature

Dual Nature <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment
Whenever a nontoken creature enters, its controller creates a token that's a copy of that creature.
Whenever a nontoken creature leaves the battlefield, exile all tokens with the same name as that creature.
When Dual Nature leaves the battlefield, exile all tokens created with Dual Nature.

https://scryfall.com/card/rex/5/life-finds-a-way

Life Finds a Way <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Enchantment
Whenever a nontoken creature you control with power 4 or greater enters, populate. (Create a token that's a copy of a creature token you control.)
"Life breaks free. It expands to new territories and crashes through barriers. Painfully, maybe even dangerously. But, uh, well there it is." —Ian Malcolm

[gritty nest]

Oop sorry for the ping

[lusty trench]

No worries, I’m not saying the commander is bad but if your opponent is salting out over bello that’s on them

[gritty nest]

So far I’ve only played him against other precons and he gets out of hand quickly

I have yet to see how he does against regular decks

I’m adding lightning greaves swiftfoot because of how commander reliant the deck is

[golden plover]

Damn the new lair system continues to suck

Apparently the Monty Python lair sold out in like 45 minutes

The only ones left are Showcase Bloomburrow and The Brain Dead ones

[stark skiff]

this one was obvious

[golden plover]

True

Sucks tho because that encourages splitting $15 worth of cards into 2 lairs

[craggy moss]

Not entirely sure if this is place to ask, but recently bought virtue and valor precon as a first deck, and I dont know if i should use gylwain or ellivere as commander

Ellivere is way slower in testing ive done, even though she gives arguably better role in virtuous, but i miss the trample from gylwain a lot of the time, especially when he gives it to anything I summon, not once a turn with a condition of attacking

[lusty trench]

Ellivere is arguably better due to the card advantage she gives

[gritty nest]

I used Gylwain myself but that’s my preference

[craggy moss]

So far played three games with friends and each time I used gylwain and got targetted for my board “being too good to early”

I just prefer gylwain at the moment cos he is quicker and more aggressive, but both have reasons to use

[trail anvil]

tbh whoever decided to do a limited quantity of secret lairs needs to be fired, that's wild

"hey let's make less money"

[craggy moss]

Deckbuilding is so much harder in this game, why cant I run three ash blossom

[gritty nest]

I get why they want secret lairs to be limited run, but at the same time like you said it bottle necks income

But at the same time it also guarantees a higher chance of all their product selling out

I heard the old method was print some in advance then print on demand?

[trail anvil]

I'd rather they print a set amount then make it to demand tbh

I know people complained about not getting their stuff until later but it was better than this current system

[gritty nest]

At least you had a chance to get it

[trail anvil]

unfortunately that kind of is the way that early game decks are

[craggy moss]

Is secret lair the like alt art stuff they r selling

[trail anvil]

gotta adapt with either protection, walling up or some other way of mitigating it

[trail anvil]

ya

[craggy moss]

Cool

[gritty nest]

Or being so aggressive

[craggy moss]

Which is why ellivere seems good, but then I have weak af board earlier

Most of my group play decks that do nothing early game too tho, so maybe thats not too much of a downside actually

[trail anvil]

ye

the way I adapted was just playing group hug so people keep me alive early to get resources

[craggy moss]

One plays token spam, which takes a bit to get working, one is on rad counters, one uses artifacts

One uses blue or a mill deck

[craggy moss]

Oh cool

Time to test ellivere again then

[gritty nest]

I love the role tokens Ellivere gives but I felt like she was too slow to make it effective

[glad peak]

Bello’s pretty tame but I’m interested in the stax opportunities with this guy

Turning your lock pieces into card advantage, win condition, and maybe removal sounds good but in bad colors

[trail anvil]

[[aligned hedron network]] seemed really fun

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/222/aligned-hedron-network

Aligned Hedron Network <:mana4:292901508712890379>

Artifact
When Aligned Hedron Network enters, exile all creatures with power 5 or greater until Aligned Hedron Network leaves the battlefield. (Those creatures return under their owners' control.)
The last hedron slotted into place, locking Ulamog in an infinite loop of binding energy.

[zinc shard]

Bloomburrow comes out tomorrow right?

on Arena>

[golden plover]

Yeah, I was fine waiting a few months to ensure I got the cards I wanted

The only time I really thought it was egregious was the Heads I Win incident

Like 2 months was fine. A year? What the fuck was that about

[craggy moss]

Yh, gylwain is just speedy

Also kor spiritdancer is NOT balanced 😭

This deck is so funny, draw a load, discard to 7 , next turn use cards like mantle of ancients and retether to return all the discards

Funky deck

[golden plover]

Oh I didn't realize she got new art, nice

I miss playing Kor Spiritdancer in 60 card decks

[craggy moss]

Think imma use ellivere next time I play with people to see how it performa in game and judge from there to be honest

[trail anvil]

try to make azorius auras work in explorer

[gritty nest]

What about gruul enchantments with Wildsear

[golden plover]

She's not pioneer legal

[trail anvil]

o rip

historic?

[twilit canyon]

not great in the format

removal and threats have gotten so good that auras arent a threat anymore really

the true death of auras was path to exile at least for historic

they get destroyed by pte

and they cant keep up vs energy or wizards

they never were able to vs wizards and now another deck is beating them up

[zinc shard]

Draft Token on sale today

[granite badge]

this reads like a yugioh card lmao

[sudden lava]

4FAD6-B4657-2A712-26AEO-F27EO
First come first serve on bloomburrow prerelease 6 packs code

[lusty trench]

New commander banlist announcement, they're looking at Nadu but no actual changes

[zinc shard]

Makes sense, Nadu's less oppressive in a multiplayer format then 1 on 1

[trail anvil]

he has more answers but he's more toxic since 3 players have to wait through a nadu turn instead of 1 person

it's paradox engine all over again

this is a nice way to send off wandering emperor in this standard. won the promotion game for plat vs orzhov midrange

[rigid scarab]

Where did you find this?

[zinc shard]

https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/2024/07/29/july-2024-quarterly-update/

[stark skiff]

Commander actually banning anything

[trail anvil]

I imagine most tables besides cedh are rule 0'ing him at this point tbh

if my pod didn't do that I think I'd just let the nadu player combo one game to prove a point lol

[sleek ferry]

Wait

Today is bloomburrow day right?

[stark skiff]

for arena yeah

[sleek ferry]

Let’s gooo

I think I have enough for lizards

[golden plover]

God the RC is actually so useless "we believe this problem will self-select out"

Also oh we can have multiple banlists for silver border, but we can't bring back banned as commander (for Braids) and banned as companion (for Lutri)?

[golden plover]

To clarify on this, I'm not saying Nadu should go just yet. Needs more time to see in EDH. But we've had Thoracle and Dockside for 4 years now and there's clearly no reason to keep them around

[copper pecan]

what's even the point of the rules committee if they never actually do anything

[copper pecan]

https://x.com/VPyssg/status/1817952742352248924

塩犬けむし (@VPyssg) on X

背景世界が好きすぎてカードゲームはそれとしてブルームバロウをこういうRPGで遊びたいです…
#MTG

Twitter · Jul 29, 2024, 3:58 PM

[stark skiff]

Yeah this. I always laugh when people mention they’re a part of it and it’s like okay what do you even do.

[sleek ferry]

Man

[copper pecan]

they seem committed to targeting the banlist at people who don't know there's a banlist in the first place

[sleek ferry]

Arena cube draft is legit the funnest thing arena does

They should do it more often

Everybody just has the most insane decks

[copper pecan]

i love arena cube so much

[sleek ferry]

It’s so good

I had a crazy golgari deck with Six, and ended up 5-3 due to vsing some equally as insane decks

At least I got a good amount of gold off it for bloomburrow today

[golden plover]

The commander banlist is super antiquated. Half those cards can come back

And the two most obvious cards to put on it (Thoracle And Dockside) are still free

Biorhythm, Coalition Victory, Gifts Ungiven, Iona, Lutri (if banned as companion), Panoptic Mirror, Prophet of Khurpix, Paradox Engine, Prime Titan, and Sway of the Stars could all come back yesterday

Leovold, Sundering Titan, Trade Secrets, Sylvan Primordial, and Recurring Nightmare are probably fine too

Braids, Rofelos, and Griselbrand are fine if "banned as commander" but hot take: Braids is fine

Sometimes you get her down t1 and win via magical Christmas land

[golden plover]

But you also sometimes just t1 Thoracle Consult and that's legal so why not

[copper pecan]

braids is too slow to be good anymore imo

[golden plover]

Yeah, [[Braids Cabal Minion]] is literally fine

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/273/braids-cabal-minion

Braids, Cabal Minion <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Minion
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player sacrifices an artifact, creature, or land.
"Home is where you can find a decent graveyard and strangers can disappear without awkward questions."
2/2

[golden plover]

The only scary thing is the t1 Braids where you win on the spot

But that requires you seeing jeweled lotus or another way to get to 4 mana t1 in black

Actually, you don't even win on the spot, because if you stop drawing lands you've gotta sac braids

[rigid scarab]

In my opinion

Either bring back braids

Or ban tergrid

To keep things consistent

[golden plover]

You probably get like... 10 commander damage in max?

[copper pecan]

sounds to me like the fast mana is the problem and not braids

[golden plover]

Yeah once again the issue is in fact the fast mana

[copper pecan]

my spicy take is that dark ritual should be banned

[lusty trench]

The commander committee would rather let the format die than ban fast mana

[golden plover]

But they're not gonna ban sol ring (although they should), mana crypt and vault (because they sell packs), and jeweled lotus (sells packs)

[lusty trench]

Add the new moxen there too

[golden plover]

My hot take is that sol ring should have been banned like 10 years ago

We're far past it getting banned tho

[rigid scarab]

My thing is what do we call fast mana

And how good does it have to be to be banworthy

[golden plover]

But sol ring is singlehandlely one of the most unbalanced cards in the game

[rigid scarab]

Like

Do we ban the spirit guides

[golden plover]

Only reason people don't realize that is because every deck runs one

[lusty trench]

A mana source that provides you with more mana that you paid for it ig

[golden plover]

If Sol Ring was like $100 like mana crypt is, you'd hear so many more people saying it needs to get banned and that it's super unbalanced

[rigid scarab]

Honestly Im like

Super down for sol ring in specific

[copper pecan]

sol ring is stronger than some of the power 9

[rigid scarab]

Like yes in a vacuum it's an uber strong card

[golden plover]

Sol Ring is 1 mana upfront to ramp 2 forever

[rigid scarab]

But what it does for a game is set the tone

Like "Ok we're gonna target Mr. Sol Ring now"

In most pods

Sol Ring will not singlehandedly win a game

[golden plover]

Yeah but the first person to drop sol ring is also now like 2-3 turns ahead

They either have to get hated out, or they're playing with a huge advantage

[rigid scarab]

And now has to fight 3 people who are targeting them

Seems fine to me

[golden plover]

That's only if everyone agrees to fight sol ring player tho

[rigid scarab]

Then that's a threat assessment issue

[golden plover]

Again, if Sol Ring was $100 there'd be very different opinions on the card

[lusty trench]

Me who would just remove the sol ring

[golden plover]

It'd be seen like Dockside and Crypt

[rigid scarab]

People only have opinions on Mana Crypt because Mana Crypt is very often the indicator of a high powered deck

[golden plover]

Both are cards that are really expensive, make you a target, and should realistically be banned

[rigid scarab]

If the person was willing to use a $100 Mana Crypt

[golden plover]

Because Crypt is $100

[rigid scarab]

They're willing to use a suite of other powerful cards

[golden plover]

If Sol Ring was $100, it'd also be the "oh this dude is playing high power" card

There's a reason sol ring is banned in EVERY other format

[rigid scarab]

Yes but cards shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum imo

[golden plover]

I'm not saying Sol Ring is ever gonna get banned in commander at this point

[rigid scarab]

I value the social aspect of cards in commander a good amount

[golden plover]

But I'm saying that the correct call was to also ban Sol Ring in commander

But the RC is adverse to actually making changes, especially the right call

We've had Dockside and Thoracle for 4 years now

Every RC update is "we're looking into dockside and Thoracle" and "players will self-regulate on them"

[rigid scarab]

I think Sol Ring does give you a very good advantage, but not so large that you can't possibly be unseated from a winning position

[golden plover]

4 years should be more than enough time to prove there's 0 reason for the two to still be in the format

[rigid scarab]

Unlike, say, a Thoracle

[golden plover]

The thing with Sol Ring compared to these two is that you can play it "fairly"

There's no fair play patterns for Dockside and Thoracle

Sure, someone might drop Dockside and ramp 4 mana and that's it

[lusty trench]

The fair play pattern for dockside is when I play it

[golden plover]

But 95% of the time when Dockside hits the table, it puts you in a winning position

And Thoracle is even worse

That card has literally never been used for its scry effect

Thoracle comes down only to win the game out of nowhere

[rigid scarab]

Btw Im in the camp of

Iona should absolutely still be banned

[golden plover]

Iona is fine

Sure, sometimes it comes down and shuts a player out of the game

But there's way easier ways to do that for cheaper

[[Drannith Magistrate]] is legal, after all

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate

Drannith Magistrate <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Creature — Human Wizard
Your opponents can't cast spells from anywhere other than their hands.
"Our sanctuaries must be beacons of reason and calm or else they will fall."
1/3

[golden plover]

2 mana "your opponents can't play their commander"

[trail anvil]

that's wild, that's like saying imperial order and skill drain are the same

[rigid scarab]

Well the thing for Drannith is the player being shut down can still interact with it

[golden plover]

I mean, Iona is obviously stronger

But Iona is also like 8 mana

[rigid scarab]

If you have to keep Iona around

[golden plover]

You're either reanimating her or trying to ramp

[trail anvil]

and iona also shuts you out from removing it by any other means

[rigid scarab]

At least ban her as commander

[trail anvil]

preventing you from playing your commander can hinder you but iona literally stops someone from playing the game if you're monocolor

[rigid scarab]

And if someone is mono colour

[trail anvil]

or from removing her in some colors

[rigid scarab]

It's often the correct decision to lock them out of the game

[golden plover]

I mean, Iona can be taken out by at least a couple cards in every color

She's strong, but I don't think she's as bad now as people think she is

[trail anvil]

idk why we need to entertain it tbh

[rigid scarab]

Most players aren't willing to twiddle their thumbs hoping someone outs Iona

If someone isn't in the declared colours, they have no reason to interact with her

[golden plover]

I'm fine with Iona staying where she is, or coming back

[trail anvil]

if you're playing competitively you want to keep iona on board

[golden plover]

I don't think she'd be that impactful either way

[trail anvil]

ik if I was playing with someone naming a color that wasn't mine I'd pay mana to defend her

[golden plover]

She'd be annoying at casual tables, but a lot of cards are

[rigid scarab]

If Im taking a card out of the banlist

I'd like the card I'm releasing to have a positive impact on the game

[golden plover]

Lame, im unbanning Karakas

[rigid scarab]

And the banlist is often geared towards casual play

[golden plover]

Yeah true. I just think my issue is the inconsistency

The commander banlist is a lot of cards that were really annoying from 2008

Most of these aren't as bad as the modern really annoying cards

And stuff like [[Sway of the Stars]] being banned but [[Timetwister]] being legal is just ridiculous

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/bok/54/sway-of-the-stars

Sway of the Stars <:mana8:292901508830330880><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Sorcery
Each player shuffles their hand, graveyard, and all permanents they own into their library, then draws seven cards. Each player's life total becomes 7.

https://scryfall.com/card/vma/3/timetwister

Timetwister <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Sorcery
Each player shuffles their hand and graveyard into their library, then draws seven cards. (Then put Timetwister into its owner's graveyard.)

[rigid scarab]

I would say

[twilit canyon]

life totals becoming 7 is the difference

[rigid scarab]

If Sway of the Stars is banned

Then you also ban those dumbfuck red boardwipes that scramble boards

[twilit canyon]

but its not truly bad

[trail anvil]

mtga update is out btw

[golden plover]

I mean sway is 10 mana

If I'm spending 10 on a sorcery I expect it to win me the game

[[Biorhythm]] is also totally fine for that exact reason

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/231/biorhythm

Biorhythm <:mana6:292901508780130304><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Sorcery
Each player's life total becomes the number of creatures they control.
"I have seen life's purpose, and now it is my own." —Kamahl, druid acolyte

[twilit canyon]

no i know im saying the logic back then is different

[golden plover]

Yeah, they really need to update the banlist for modern times

[twilit canyon]

thatd be how u get to legal twister banned sway

[golden plover]

The biorhythm ban is because "board wipe into biorhythm"

But that's another 8 mana + 4 for the board wipe + 1 for a creature

13 mana 3 card combo

[trail anvil]

I think the better argument is that alt wincons like this are fine when we have infinites off a paperclip and a rubberband

and honestly if this card were used it would probably more likely be used with big boards/beaters to swing in when the opponent loses most of their life

[twilit canyon]

coalition victory is not even good

[golden plover]

Like I was saying, if biorhythm and coalition have to go, Thoracle does too

[rigid scarab]

Made a rough tier list of edh banlist

[twilit canyon]

also i thought i might skip bloomburrow on arena but i can think of a few cool alchemy decks i wanna try since shelly's gone

[golden plover]

Library absolutely cannot come back

[twilit canyon]

titan shouldnt be unbanned

[golden plover]

Which titan?

Prime is fine

[twilit canyon]

prime

nah

fuck him

[rigid scarab]

Well can't argue with that

[twilit canyon]

card should be removed from magic as a whole

[golden plover]

He's annoying, but in edh, he's okay

But yeah, Library ABSOLUTELY cannot come back

[golden plover]

Wait where'd you make this. I wanna make one rq

[rigid scarab]

Just go on tiermaker and search "Commander Banned"

[twilit canyon]

emrakul cant come back either

[trail anvil]

what does prime do rn out of curiosity

[twilit canyon]

still absurdly easy to combo kill with titan

[trail anvil]

I don't want it unbanned cause in casual that's utter cancer but I'm guessing this is from a competitive perspective

like amulet titan type of combo?

[rigid scarab]

My personal take is

Ban opp agent

[twilit canyon]

yeah its not really hard to do and extremely oppressive if resolved

powering out titan turn 2 isnt hard and even just from value

[trail anvil]

are we really putting leopold in the "could come off" category btw

[twilit canyon]

leovold also shouldnt

[trail anvil]

and paradox??

do we not bitch enough about nadu in here

[twilit canyon]

sylvan also is too good

[rigid scarab]

Idk leovold to me just looks like a typical stax-y commander

[twilit canyon]

nadu is fine

so is paradox

[rigid scarab]

Leovold is

[trail anvil]

I don't wanna sit through either idk

[rigid scarab]

An entirely different card from nadu

[twilit canyon]

leave griselbrand off

card is fucked

even if worse than atraxa

[golden plover]

Paradox is banned more for being annoying than anything

It's not the end of the world if it comes back, but it's not fun either

[trail anvil]

wasn't one of your pros to cedh that you can finish a game in under 15 min btw

or are you just suggesting people scoop when nadu starts comboing

[sleek ferry]

you can, but in a tournament setting that doesn't happen

cedh tourneys normally get 75 minutes per round iirc

[trail anvil]

I imagine this would be more in a locals setting but idk

[golden plover]

Here's my take on the banlist

I think if Paradox is banned, Nadu should go too

[twilit canyon]

you do the same to gitrog

[trail anvil]

braids under "zero problems" is wild tho

[golden plover]

They're either or tbh

Braids is literally fine

[twilit canyon]

please unban gifts

pleasepleaseplease

i promise i wont turn 1 more consistentlu

[golden plover]

Like I said, sometimes you get braids t1 in magical Christmas land and it's annoying

But braids in a realistic setting is kinda whatever

[twilit canyon]

yea u gotta let them play out their combo

bc u never know

they may make a mistake in sequencing

and whatnot

[golden plover]

Lutri is in "could come back" with only the criteria of "banned as a companion"

[trail anvil]

idk also am I overrating tinker

[twilit canyon]

but outside of tornament play, when nadu and gitrog start comboing off, you usually scoop unless u have good reason

nah tinker is beyond fucked

[golden plover]

He's literally fine anywhere else

[twilit canyon]

t1 bolas' citadel type of card

its absurdly broken in no banlist cedh

[trail anvil]

I'd wanna do [[god pharaoh's statue]] for the meme

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/war/238/god-pharaohs-statue

God-Pharaoh's Statue <:mana6:292901508780130304>

Legendary Artifact
Spells your opponents cast cost more to cast.
At the beginning of your end step, each opponent loses 1 life.
A dictator's infuriating smirk, an affront to everything Ravnica stood for.

[golden plover]

Maybe I was sleeping on tinker

It's probably in "should stay banned"

[twilit canyon]

its easy to overlook tinker

[rigid scarab]

Time Vault is what no banlist cedh revolves around btw

Like every deck is a time vault deck

[trail anvil]

primordial you just turbo out to zap lands too yeah?

[golden plover]

Prophet of Khurpix is another card in the Nadu/Paradox Engine camp

Either all three are banned or all three are fine

[twilit canyon]

prophet technically

opens instant speed thoracle lines

[golden plover]

All three pretty much do the same thing, lead to long turns and annoying games

So if we're gonna ban 2 for it, the third should go too

[trail anvil]

I'm not surprised tbh

[twilit canyon]

[[prophet of kruphix]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ths/199/prophet-of-kruphix

Prophet of Kruphix <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Human Wizard
Untap all creatures and lands you control during each other player's untap step.
You may cast creature spells as though they had flash.
"Time is fluid as a dance, and truth as fleeting."
2/3

[golden plover]

But if Nadu is fine, the other two can come back

[twilit canyon]

nah ur forgetting flash

[golden plover]

Yeah, Prophet's other line of text does matter

It's probably better than paradox for it

[twilit canyon]

seedborne muse doesnt give flash

[golden plover]

But it's the most intensive casting cost

[twilit canyon]

it makes more mana

seedborne is the same cost

minus blue

[golden plover]

My hot take is that id personally like to see legal Karakas for a bit

It probably shouldn't stay legal

But it'd be funny

[trail anvil]

btw I'm unfamiliar, what's the issue with library of alexandria? you use it during the early game for a free draw?

[gritty nest]

[[Library of Alexandria]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/vma/303/library-of-alexandria

Library of Alexandria

Land
: Add .
: Draw a card. Activate only if you have exactly seven cards in hand.

[gritty nest]

I do not know

[twilit canyon]

t1 library on the draw is pretty free

but it requires t1 library and no board developing

[golden plover]

Library is a free draw, and it gets worse in comboing

[twilit canyon]

outside of hard control it wouldnt be that stupid

still absurd in some scenarios

[golden plover]

Library is banned everywhere for a reason

[gritty nest]

Why is golos banned?

[twilit canyon]

also a buff to stax

[golden plover]

Golos is too open

[trail anvil]

you run it in the command zone and it's 5c good stuff

it pays for its own commander tax almost

[golden plover]

It's 5c good stuff with no costs and you can build whatever

[gritty nest]

Kenrith?

[golden plover]

That too, it ramps you

Kenrith is 5c good stuff too, but he's not as overbearing

[trail anvil]

as stupid as kenrith is he doesn't pay for his own commander tax

[rigid scarab]

It's basically better kenrith

[twilit canyon]

wrong

[gritty nest]

[[Golos]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/m20/226/golos-tireless-pilgrim

Golos, Tireless Pilgrim <:mana5:292901508796645386>

Legendary Artifact Creature — Scout
When Golos, Tireless Pilgrim enters, you may search your library for a land card, put that card onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
: Exile the top three cards of your library. You may play them this turn without paying their mana costs.
3/5

[golden plover]

Golos was the most played commander before his ban

[trail anvil]

hold on there partner

[twilit canyon]

kenrith is leagues above golos

like its not even remotely close

[golden plover]

Because there's no reason not to just make Golos the commander for literally every deck

[gritty nest]

i didn’t know his WUBRG effect made the cards free

[twilit canyon]

kenrith may be the best commander of all time if im bring honest

[trail anvil]

he's not on there cause he's more broken than kenrith, he's just overcentralizing lol

[twilit canyon]

theres almost no reason to not play kenrith in commander

[golden plover]

He's not a power level ban, he's a "this card takes up too much of the format" ban

[trail anvil]

and a "this guy feels terrible to remove" ban

[twilit canyon]

the alternatives are just as broken but sometimes u do have to ask what you are missing out on by not playing kenrith

and the answer is a million things

[gritty nest]

What other 5c good stuff commanders are there?

[twilit canyon]

najeela

also better than golos

by a lot

[golden plover]

And Golos should stay gone because he'd be the most overbearing commander again

[twilit canyon]

mind you we only banned golos because magic players are awful

[gritty nest]

Does golos take 50 minute non-determinate turns

[twilit canyon]

nope

[trail anvil]

nadu isn't played nearly as much as golos

[golden plover]

Part of their ban explanation was stuff like "there's no reason not to play Golos for stuff like tribal because he's just a better commander than any other options"

[trail anvil]

if that's what you're getting at

[golden plover]

Again, Golos is banned because #1 on EDHREC by a wide margin

[twilit canyon]

this is true of kenrith

this is true of morophon for typal too lol

[trail anvil]

so what you're saying is we need to get casual players to spam kenrith to get him banned

[golden plover]

The thing is that Golos did tribal, did deserts, did control, did everything

Morphon isn't as versatile

Kenrith is, but he's not in the Golos position rn

[trail anvil]

I feel like morophon is more glue for jank enthusiasts than anything

[golden plover]

And he doesn't feel as bad in casual

[twilit canyon]

the fact ppl spammed golos is because they, as players, suck. golos is not good. but because people have no idea how to not play without their commander in play, they turned to golos

[trail anvil]

the "my favorite type doesn't have a good commander" type beat

[golden plover]

I mean, Golos just really shouldn't be in commander

[twilit canyon]

keep in mind yuriko also doesnt care about the tax

[gritty nest]

I’ve never played with golos around myself, so I don’t know the full extent of it all

[golden plover]

Yuriko is also not 5c

[twilit canyon]

sure but again, if you need 5c to make your deck work in a casual setting, wtf are you doing?

the ban was done to save magic players from themselves

[trail anvil]

still baffling to me they designed her like that btw

[gritty nest]

I’m looking at it like “he’s a 5 drop that can be turbo’d easier than a good chunk of the 5c commanders, his ability costs a lot of mana but is very potent if you can get it off”

[trail anvil]

ik derevi exists but man

[golden plover]

Yeah Yuriko is a crazy card

[trail anvil]

in cedh she's perfectly fine, in casual that shit's annoying

[twilit canyon]

genuinely the only problem creatures in cedh rn are thoracle, dockkside, and kenrith

[gritty nest]

My friend built cEDH Najeela and uses it against everything not cEDH because he isn’t good at the game

[golden plover]

Dockside and Thoracle need to go

[twilit canyon]

nah

im off the ban wagon

[golden plover]

I'll stay on this every fucking banlist update because it's been "were keeping an eye on dockside and Thoracle" for 4 years now

[twilit canyon]

they are broken but like

whatever

[gritty nest]

I’ve seen thoracle fine with one thing

Mono blue merfolk tribal

[trail anvil]

I weirdly like how dockside interacts with other docksides

but man this card is scary

[gritty nest]

That isn’t trying to turbo thoracle win

[golden plover]

I dunno how much more proof the RC needs to see that there's 0 situation where Thoracle sees reasonable play

[twilit canyon]

commander banlist doesnt care about balance whatsoever

[golden plover]

I can sorta get the "sometimes a dockside comes down and makes 4 treasures and that's it" argument

But no one has ever played Thoracle for a regular reason

[twilit canyon]

so thoracle and dockside are here for good

a casual deck cant abuse either

not easily

[gritty nest]

At this point if cedh events want to change up the thing they’d have to host their own banlist for it?

Which already feels janky because not everyone knows proper bannings

[zinc shard]

Renewal Gifts

[twilit canyon]

nah

its been discussed

you play cedh, to play edh

[golden plover]

Tbh I also don't see why banlists (for all formats) have to be on a 4 month schedule as is

[twilit canyon]

if you wanted to play another format, you'd play canlander or auslander

[trail anvil]

those are good renewal gifts

[twilit canyon]

or nbl

[golden plover]

Pioneer, Modern, and Legacy are all in not great places rn

[twilit canyon]

modern is fine

[gritty nest]

Would you rather have a relatively slow but guaranteed update on the banlist 3 times a year or a half assed approximation and be late every time

[twilit canyon]

genuinely

nadu is broken ues

but outside of that modern's the best its been

[golden plover]

But no action can be taken on any of them until August

[twilit canyon]

and that was good

if they banned nadu early and nothing else we'd still be lame duck for a long time

[golden plover]

I mean, they could just go "quick banlist to get rid of nadu" now and move on

[twilit canyon]

but they shouldnt have

[atomic harness]

kenrith still broken? Holy...

[twilit canyon]

it was good to test

see if the format could adapt to nadu

and it honestly did

nadu as broken as it is, has some hard counters

it can get bullied off the game hard by multiple decks

it still needs to go but at least we know

there are ways to stop the deck and the meta can adapt

[gritty nest]

I think quick banning nadu before the first event it could participate in is a bit

Stupid

But that’s me

[golden plover]

Yeah but now that they've had a PT why not get rid of it

[twilit canyon]

that also would have hurt the event yes

[golden plover]

They've seen that it had better results than Gaak

[trail anvil]

I just want my rals to go back up in price

traded a necrodominance for a ral

[twilit canyon]

better results than gaak is weird bc gaak was a different era and the deck was super unoptimized

[gritty nest]

Give him like 2-3 events and if he was overwhelmingly dominating even with counters then I can start to agree to E Ban him

[golden plover]

There's at least one more PT before it's able to get banned tho

[twilit canyon]

the 26th of august is nadu's due date

and again its weird to say ban when it performs weird and the rest of the meta is doing well

[zinc shard]

wtf is this?

[twilit canyon]

weird to say quick ban i mean

[gritty nest]

lets just ban Shuko and be done

[twilit canyon]

lands

[gritty nest]

[zinc shard]

that price is crazy

[trail anvil]

damn selling them individually by the season lmao

[twilit canyon]

shuko and springheart maybe nomads gone isnt a bad call tbh

i dont think nadu is impossible to ban around

[trail anvil]

god I can't wait to get bloomburrow islands for my bumbleflower deck

[twilit canyon]

and i think u can reasonably have nadu and yawg be in a similar spot as decks

[trail anvil]

I never realized how good it feels to play with full art lands

[golden plover]

Jesus that's an insane asking price for the lands

[twilit canyon]

lands sell

[golden plover]

That's like $20 a bundle

I'd get it for all 4, but $20 a bundle is CRAZY

[twilit canyon]

i know a guy who recently paid over 10k on basics

[gritty nest]

I recently made all the lands in my food deck surge foil borderless lands

Because the LTR surge basics were under $1 each

[twilit canyon]

ive been paying recently a couple hundred on basics oops

[gritty nest]

Oops

Make a land base of just guru lands

[trail anvil]

damn really? that's a bargain

[twilit canyon]

actually i lied a few of those hundreds were shocks

[gritty nest]

I was debating on adding Ygra, Eater of All to my food deck

And this new squirrel that does something with paying life and I think drawing

[[Bonecache Overseer]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/85/bonecache-overseer

Bonecache Overseer <:manab:292901508872273920>

Creature — Squirrel Warlock
, Pay 1 life: Draw a card. Activate only if three or more cards left your graveyard this turn or if you've sacrificed a Food this turn.
"Bring me my harvest."
1/1

[gritty nest]

Because consistent draw is always awesome

[trail anvil]

both look good

my arena is stuck on 1.29/1.29 gb, should I just restart it?

[gritty nest]

Idk

My issue with ygra is I don’t outright see synergies

Like yea I know it makes every creature a food

[lusty trench]

Ygra is just kinda strange

[golden plover]

I think Ygra will be fun in the pioneer Rakdos sac deck

Dunno how easy it'll be to pivot to Jund tho

[lusty trench]

I feel like out of the calamities, maha and lumra are the easiest to build around

[trail anvil]

what are the other calamities

[lusty trench]

Ygra and eluge have very specific build needs

Dragonhawk seems fine but nothing ground breaking

Beza reads whatever

[golden plover]

Dragonhawk seems fine

[lusty trench]

And sunspine lynx is literally getting crept next set

[trail anvil]

beza is a sideboard card vs aggro probably

I saw one youtuber try it in the main deck but that shit's rough lmao

[lusty trench]

I think lumra is probably the easiest calamity to say is good

[golden plover]

Yeah crazy sunspine lynx is coming out and then that INSANE red card from Duskmorn happens

[lusty trench]

Maha has its uses definitely but likely it’s going to just eat a removal and cry

Meanwhile lumra at least gives you shit upfront

[golden plover]

[[Screaming Nemesis]] is gonna be a good card pretty much everywhere I feel like

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/157/screaming-nemesis

Screaming Nemesis <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Creature — Spirit
Haste
Whenever Screaming Nemesis is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to any other target. If a player is dealt damage this way, they can't gain life for the rest of the game.
She sees the faces of those who wronged her in everyone she encounters.
3/3

[golden plover]

Like that shit is RIDICULOUS

[trail anvil]

I might be coping on golgari landfall but it definitely seems like more copies of aftermath analyzer

[lusty trench]

It’s a shame standard reanimation for things that cost more than 4 is expensive mana wise, lumra mill reanimation could’ve been something

[[sheolreds reclaimation]] is cheapest we have rn iirc

[lost widget]

No card found for “sheolreds reclaimation”

[lusty trench]

[[sheoldreds restoration]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/108/sheoldreds-restoration

Sheoldred's Restoration <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. If this spell was kicked, you gain life equal to that card's mana value. Otherwise, you lose that much life.
Exile Sheoldred's Restoration.

[sleek ferry]

I’m so ready btw

[trail anvil]

I think 6 mana for mill is really expensive tbh

[lusty trench]

Nah I meant more so you mill to get lands and lumra in the bin, then cheat out lumra and reap the value

[trail anvil]

yeah that's lizards alright

[lusty trench]

Lizards when you ask them where their top end is

[trail anvil]

I mean why not just reanimate atraxa tho

the golden question every time

[lusty trench]

Because I forgot she’s in standard

[gritty nest]

If I have this effect hit me against my food deck I’m just scooping on the spot tbh.

Can’t do anything without the life gain

[lusty trench]

The 3 bat players

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-bob-sponge-spongebob-cry-sad-gif-25905087

[trail anvil]

must've been dodging domain ramp hard lol

[lusty trench]

I do this cool trick where I don’t play standard

I just like thinking about it

[gritty nest]

That gave me a good chuckle

[sleek ferry]

Tbf we started seeing way less atraxa towards the end of
The season

[sleek ferry]

Yep, I’m going to enjoy this standard a lot

[lusty trench]

Lemme know how that lizard deck does might start up arena again

On another note feels good

[sleek ferry]

It’s going totally take a while for me to iron out the issues with it

[zinc shard]

Oh I wasnt aware they were redoing this

[golden plover]

Not a bad sealed pool

[twilit canyon]

gb pool

[zinc shard]

Man I wish Arena let you pick your playing field

The Bloomburrow one is so nice

[golden plover]

I think we play this?

The green season feels unplayable so I think we're playing Golgari food

[zinc shard]

Pulling 1 Rare/Mythic of each color has to be some kind of achievement

[golden plover]

Welp lost my first sealed game because Arena crashed

Can I still file a support ticket for that? Used to be you'd get a refund when it happens

[zinc shard]

might as well try

[twilit canyon]

u should be able to

[sleek ferry]

Oh yeah arena crashed

This hasn’t happened in a hot minute

[golden plover]

Yeah hopefully I can file a refund then

[sleek ferry]

A lot of people must be excited for bloomburrow

[golden plover]

I was in a winning position too

Just used [[Stargaze]] to find Ygra after getting them down to 1 blocker

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/114/stargaze

Stargaze <:manax:292901509082120202><:manab:292901508872273920><:manab:292901508872273920>

Sorcery
Look at twice X cards from the top of your library. Put X cards from among them into your hand and the rest into your graveyard. You lose X life.
"Some batfolk dedicate their lives to seeing the world beyond them." —Warion, scholar of the Cosmos

[trail anvil]

I feel like at some point they're gonna let you do this

given how many fields we do have

or maybe rotate some out idk

[golden plover]

Honestly I don't get why they don't do the HS/LoR thing

Having the board be split and letting both players purchase boards

It's super appealing to the whales in HS

[trail anvil]

I even bought a board for lor

[sleek ferry]

Now that’s a throwback

[zinc shard]

oh I just got an error when trying to join Sealed

server may be down

[sleek ferry]

LoR and its endless stream of tier 0 formats

[golden plover]

I bought a couple boards in LoR

LoR only really had 3

[zinc shard]

yea looks like it

[sleek ferry]

Server is down yeah

[golden plover]

For the most part, the game was good

[sleek ferry]

Post rotation + new set

[golden plover]

The T0s were: Azir/Irellia, Mono-Shurima, and Elder Dragon hell

I might be forgetting one

But those three were the big tier 0s

[sleek ferry]

Bard was a tier 0 too

[golden plover]

Everything else was relatively balanced until Elder Dragon

True, Shen/Bard but that was only like a week

[trail anvil]

damn mono shurima was tier 0?

[golden plover]

They did an emergency patch because Bard wasn't supposed to work that way

[golden plover]

When they did the Azir buff after nerfing him and Irellia and buffed sun disc

People jokingly called it the mono shurima movie

Because you'd level Azir and/or Xerath which would level sundisc, which would level Azir and/or Xerath

It was like 6 animations in 1 turn

Hated playing against that deck

[trail anvil]

o yeah but I think this set is really popular

strength aside who doesn't love cute fuzzy animals

I keep getting timed out when I try to log in

[golden plover]

Servers are still down

[trail anvil]

o

[golden plover]

Yeah got a game loss. Filing a support ticket

[sleek ferry]

I read this as “I keep getting turned on” and I was so confused. I need some sleep

[golden plover]

Well I guess this sealed should be free then, time to go X-3

[trail anvil]

aw yeah baby show me that login screen...

at least sealed is ez to build

[golden plover]

True

Yo infinite gems trick: Simply have the servers crash every time you wanna play sealed

[golden plover]

https://preview.redd.it/t2m9pq01jofd1.png?auto=webp&s=aa0c33e380429a1d3a49e303eff6f5383fff3c68

Oh so suddenly they can just put the original version of a card on arena with the new version

So I guess it's not that hard to do it for the upshifted Special Guest cards

[lusty trench]

but pope, think about all the money they’d lose

[golden plover]

I mean, thats literally the reason

But this definitely means the "It's too much effort" excuse doesn't work considering they just did it for a random Sorin

[lusty trench]

Small indie devs pope

[lusty trench]

Hmmm yes I like this funky little guy

To be offered two impact tremors for the price of two

Yeeeeees

Gevs strongest soldier

[fallow citrus]

https://x.com/HobbesQ/status/1818016348188058059?t=LmxvmoH2c22pew5j8gsw5g&s=19

HobbesQ, PhD (for real though) (@HobbesQ) on X

This is actually one of the rarest things I've seen pop up

Twitter · Jul 29, 2024, 8:10 PM

[golden plover]

Woah that's neat

[stark skiff]

What is it

[trail anvil]

yeah I'm not familiar with this either, what is it?

also man people were bitching and moaning about the new orb system cause it looks like the mh3 frog hideaway, but this is literally just a better version of the old orbs

[fallow citrus]

so iirc

they used to do promos where you could get a piece of a larger card

so there's been a black lotus one, and this orb is one too

certain cards with part of the art were short printed

so it's very rare to see a full one

there's a very good part in this video about it

https://youtu.be/0dDLQkg5O1o?si=zCE1OI8GN6bd9q6F&t=1065

timestamped it to where I think the correct section is

[sleek ferry]

Alright

Season of loss is an auto include in lizards

It helps curve out your grindy games

[stark skiff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGqAJHAtYzw

[sleek ferry]

Alright I’m going to get ahead of the curve

And say [[essence channeler]] is bullshit

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/12/essence-channeler

Essence Channeler <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Creature — Bat Cleric
As long as you've lost life this turn, Essence Channeler has flying and vigilance.
Whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on Essence Channeler.
When Essence Channeler dies, put its counters on target creature you control.
2/1

[sleek ferry]

That last effect is stupid as fuck

[trail anvil]

probably a lot stronger with march rotated lol

I feel like this was a moderately known quantity though, it's basically the ajani's pridemate of this block and lifegain was like tier 3 or something

still weak to board wipes fwiw

[lusty trench]

I really wish bats were fleshed out more cause their whole pay life and get it back stuff is great

Actually that's my opinion on the entire set

Except otters and rabbits, lazy bastards couldn't make a new mechanic for izzet and selesniya

[sleek ferry]

Wdym you don’t like selesnya tokens and izzet spellslinger?!

[lusty trench]

Offspring is... Something? It was like the easiest way to pretend to make a new mechanic

[sleek ferry]

I love offspring

But uh

A lot of the offspring cards feel like they’re overperforming atm

Like the landfall lizard goes super hard

[lusty trench]

I mean I'm happy for you but I'd love to see selensiya and Izzet do something different, I like that offspring wasn't limited to white green though

I don't mind azorius being flyer matters because they actually want non fliers and have additional benefits for that

[rigid scarab]

Hear me out

It's orzhov

And it's about gaining life

And losing life

[lusty trench]

I feel like they handled it differently enough though

I do think they need to freshen up the colour identities in general but I feel izzet has been the most stagnant in that department

How many goblin electromancers did we get this year

Me when the golgari deck self mills or manipulates grave, the dimir deck controls or mills, the izzet deck spell slings, the selesnya deck makes tokens, the Boros deck turns things sideways, the simic deck draws cards and ramps, the azorius deck flies and staxes, the orzhov deck gains and loses life, the gruul deck makes big dudes and the rakdos deck cares about opponent losing life (there are 100 different keywords that all achieve this end)

[sleek ferry]

Tbf we went through a decently long stretch where golgari was not manipulating the grave

It was kinda annoying actually

[lusty trench]

They just replaced that with nothing though

[gritty nest]

What’s it do?

[lusty trench]

1 mana offspring 2, land enters it pings each opponent for 1

[gritty nest]

Basically 3 mana landfall ping everyone for 2

[lusty trench]

Yeah, it's also important for enabling the other lizards early though so you can drop it turn one

[gritty nest]

My reason why I love izzet but dislike all the available commanders

Every commander is just spellslinger with a limited edition flavor

[trail anvil]

hey now there's big spell izzet commanders too

fml I dropped a game in draft cause I forgot splash portal was a sorcery

FUCK

I just lost from another misplay fuck me lmao

[gritty nest]

I think that’s a sorcery, that should help you next time

[trail anvil]

gosh thanks

fuck me I actually just ended that run on 2 major misplays though aaaaaaa that was actually a good deck

pro tip, don't boost a creature with [[gossip's talent]] before combat, or else you miss lethal by exactly 1 damage

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/blb/51/gossips-talent

Gossip's Talent <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Enchantment — Class
(Gain the next level as a sorcery to add its ability.)
Whenever a creature you control enters, surveil 1.
: Level 2
Whenever you attack, target attacking creature with power 3 or less can't be blocked this turn.
: Level 3
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, you may exile it, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.

[sleek ferry]

I did the thing on t2 and guy just scooped lol

[trail anvil]

jesus that's scary lol

they scooped before I did the thing

[sleek ferry]

I might have a legit shot at numbered mythic tbh, I haven’t seen anybody else on the mythic ladder with lizards

[sleek ferry]

Nvm, mythic ladder is full of Orzhov bats

And that’s like my worst matchup

[sleek ferry]

I lied I’m goated

7 game win streak bozos

[trail anvil]

are orzhov bats really that potent or are people coping

ig if they're flooding mythic there's something to them, unless that many people just wanna try them out

[sleek ferry]

All the tribes have extremely low mana costs

[trail anvil]

isn't that in compensation for usually relying on tribal synergy

is it normal that you can't view the graveyard anymore while the opponent's taking an action btw?

[urban crane]

Should I play simic landfall or abzan food

[golden plover]

So after 3 drafts, this format feels like WOE

You wanna force red

Mice and lizards feel really strong. Bats feel unplayable.

[sleek ferry]

Bats is what you mostly see in mythic rn

Lizards are okay, but they have 0 late game

Unless you tune your deck to have one

[golden plover]

I'm talking draft exclusively