Magic the Gathering

[golden plover]

No, you're declaring a cost

You're just unable to pay that cost

There's nothing on the card saying that cost HAD to be paid to draw tho

[last glen]

Isn't "draw X" contingent on you having actually paid X?

[golden plover]

Nope

It'd need an "and if you do"

X is defined as the same value, but outside of mana, there's no ruling stating that you HAVE to pay it

[last glen]

so let's say I have no energy
I play this
gain 3 energy (go from 0 to 3)
then declare I would like to pay 8 million
I only pay 3 because that's what I have
I then draw 8 million?

[golden plover]

You don't have to pay any

But yes

As written, that's how the card works

[last glen]

damn
Magic literally does not assume "if you do"

[lusty trench]

Would the bottom paragraph being combined into the top do anything?

Cause I know paragraph spacing can cause other rules issues

[sleek ferry]

I’m consulting the only mtg judge in the server rn, standby

[golden plover]

Actually, yes

The paragraph spacing is part of the issue

See [[Suppression Ray]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/260/suppression-ray-orderly-plaza

Suppression Ray <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manawu:292901508696113153><:manawu:292901508696113153>

Sorcery
Tap all creatures target player controls. You may pay X , then choose up to X creatures tapped this way. Put a stun counter on each of them. (If a permanent with a stun counter would become untapped, remove one from it instead.)
The Consulate's aether spotlights have a setting to incapacitate trespassers on contact.

Orderly Plaza
Land
Orderly Plaza enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add or .
"Chaos fuels the flames of violence. Only through order can peace be assured." —Dovin Baan

[golden plover]

Similar effect, works as intended

Because they're clearly defined

Well, it's actually because they're in the same sentence for suppression ray

Combining the paragraphs wouldn't fix Wheel

[last glen]

So if Suppression Ray said
You may pay X energy. Choose up to X creatures tapped this way.
You could put stun counters on more than X creatures?

[golden plover]

Yeah

Well it'd be the same amount as X

You just wouldn't have to pay the energy

[last glen]

hmmm

[gilded glade]

Hi, I'm gay

Maybe ask the thingie

So I can respond to the thingie

[golden plover]

The question is in regards to [[Wheel of Potential]]'s currently not correct wording. You can fail to pay X and currently still draw as many as declared (ie: 20-50 whatever), right?.

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/144/wheel-of-potential

Wheel of Potential <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manar:292901508796645397>

Sorcery
You get (three energy counters), then you may pay X .
Each player may exile their hand and draw X cards. If X is 7 or more, you may play cards you own exiled this way until the end of your next turn.
The wheel only has one sure output: chaos.

[golden plover]

Other judges are saying that's correct within the rules but against the intent of the card

[gilded glade]

Reading some rules

[glad peak]

The way I understood it was that variables stay constant throughout the card but I can also see the other argument

[golden plover]

The variables are constant, but there's no connecting clause

So you can simply fail to pay 100 energy and still draw 100 cards

[gilded glade]

I'm inclined to agree. It's not an additional cost, it's within the effect of the card, therefore you declare X at resolution, choose not to pay, and then the effect is not tied to you paying.

Either they forgot an "and if you do" / somehow assumed this was an additional cost and will errata it, or they are currently reviewing to change a rule and are coming out about that with the rulings page for MH3. I'd say wait for that rulings page for clarification on this. There's two cards that have this way of writing, and both are from MH3.

[golden plover]

@sleek ferry since you were the one to wanna ask

MH3 ruling page is already out, so it's gonna need an errata now

[gilded glade]

Ah it is

Yeh

I tried to check the rules manager twitter but didn't find it

They often write something about cards

[golden plover]

I think this one got overlooked and is just now being caught

It's not likely it'll function this way for long

But it's currently worded in a way that makes it work like that

[gilded glade]

Obviously I don't think they intend you to be able to draw 100000000 cards for 3 mana

[golden plover]

Nah, they thought it'd be funny

[sudden lava]

Looking at cheap stuff to buy for bloomburrow, really hoping for more partner with commanders cuz I saw a few backgrounds I want to add

Agent of the Iron Throne is a given, but now that I know how scion works with partner

[gritty nest]

So I added 1 card to my Third Doctor Dan Lewis deck recently, called [[Key to the vault]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/otj/54/the-key-to-the-vault

The Key to the Vault <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, look at that many cards from the top of your library. You may exile a nonland card from among them. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may cast the exiled card without paying its mana cost.
Equip

[gritty nest]

Yesterday was my first time using it

I ripped off a bootleggers stash while controlling an academy manufactor

[lusty trench]

I have a new limited goat

[golden plover]

Yeah it's a really good card in draft

[lusty trench]

I picked 4 of the things in limited and cleaned house

Slapped this on one and swong for 10

[sudden lava]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uicFvwDDlBQ&ab_channel=Magic%3ATheGathering

[granite badge]

Man

The con I'm at rn is doing mh3 draft

Courtesy of the local lgs

But they already started the pods and I missed it

[urban crane]

Oof

[stark skiff]

goddamn why is MH3 Kaalia foil like 120 bucks

[lusty trench]

Same reason why you want it

[stark skiff]

i dont

just browsing prices lol

[urban crane]

Wich version of her

[stark skiff]

borderless 343

[lusty trench]

She's £35 in the EU

[stark skiff]

Eu wins again

[fallow citrus]

as always

[lusty trench]

I order my shit from Spain or Germany, always works out much cheaper

[sleek ferry]

Just get the non foil

[stark skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/enough-of-this-blasphemy-south-park-stop-it-enough-no-more-gif-21054233

[barren cairn]

Man plays series of edh games so bad he considers quitting

I'm man

Like

Delney blows up on slightest pressure

Prosper is shit when you're constantly disrupted

I really gotta stop building decks that fold to boardwipes

[trail anvil]

yeah

[barren cairn]

Got infinite combod

I should rebuild everything

[lusty trench]

Completely obvious but you love to see it

[barren cairn]

God

I hate getting destroyed by one boardwipe, not recovering, and dying to 80 power on board or whatever

[glad peak]

Stop overextending then

[golden plover]

I like how simple that is

Means it was BAD

[lusty trench]

My lgs has 8 boxes on display

They have like 3 of the other sets

[barren cairn]

Playing the game is overextending tbh

[lusty trench]

If you require your things to last till your next turn, you've over extended

[twilit canyon]

or just mid

it was a ravnica set

so wotc often has high expectations for the set

[trail anvil]

I feel like the set had a decent number of meta cards across formats too

but I think the theme could've been done better

[barren cairn]

See the issue is

Honestly everyone gets 10000 power after a boardwipe so I can't do anything

[glad peak]

Well how much do they have before?

Also saving resources to hedge against a boardwipe is the best way to get around a boardwipe

[granite badge]

Karlov manor is a ravnica set? Coulda fooled me

[lusty trench]

It's odd that the set definitely still had the guild theming but I don't remember it like that

[golden plover]

They did the guild stuff, but not really

It was like half-assed

Was weird

[trail anvil]

I really don't remember much guild shit outside a few cards

it felt like most of the set was just this jank detective theme where they just threw a sherlock cap on half the creatures and an investigate effect and called it a day

I'm sure not putting ravnica anywhere in the name didn't help either

[golden plover]

Yeah I didn't love everything randomly being a detective for a murder mystery that didn't make sense

[lusty trench]

It’s funny how innistrad of all sets did the murder mystery stuff better

The cosmic horror aspect really added to it, and the clues were well thought out

Trying to think of a plane that could’ve done the murder mystery theme better

[trail anvil]

I think innistrad is just perfect

you already got all the creepy stuff

wait no new capenna would be perfect

[golden plover]

Yeah, it really feels like this set should have been New Capenna

Thunder Junction should have also been Old Capenna

[copper pecan]

i don't think mkm would have worked on new capenna either tbh

there aren't any characters anyone cares about on new capenna so it would be really hard to make a compelling murder mystery there

i don't think a card game is a very good format for a murder mystery story

[trail anvil]

well it kinda is but either you kill a major character like gideon or you end up with people who aren't as cared about like with mkm

[copper pecan]

who would you even kill off in new capenna 2

there are like zero memorable characters in new capenna that didn't die the first time we went there

[hidden ermine]

I mean, they have Omenpaths for that

[trail anvil]

I mean you have to be in a few sets to really be memorable but tbh another family head

[copper pecan]

if the character who died isn't from new capenna then there really isn't a huge reason for everyone to be freaking out over who did the murder

and they probably wouldn't do another family head because they already did that in the first new capenna set which was also poorly received

[golden plover]

It doesn't make any sense to do it on Ravnica either ways tho

[hidden ermine]

Could be one of the people involved in beating off the Phyrexian invasion?

[golden plover]

Teysa can just become a ghost (like she did)

And Rakdos freaking out he got accused of murder was dumb

Because he gladly would accept that he killed someone

[lusty trench]

I figured it was a case of him getting mad that he’s getting accused of crimes he didn’t commit

Like if he did do them he’d be proud of them

He doesn’t like people attributing false atrocities when he’s able to commit his own

[hidden ermine]

Yeah that makes sense actually

[sudden lava]

Got all the bounty cards now

took awhile for it to arrive

[stark skiff]

bounty cards?

[sudden lava]

a side thing the outlaws of thunder junction precons gave us

[stark skiff]

oh those yeah they looked neat but too easy to determine who was gonna get it

[sudden lava]

They are pretty cheap so figured I should pick them up for the lolz

[stark skiff]

With release of the set I picked up these foils (ignore Courier it’s for Omo lol)

[broken fjord]

It's kind of amusing that Omo has tron in it. Just casually get a ton of mana.

[stark skiff]

Would you guys buy a Borderless Foil Ulamog at like $150? Its that much at my locals and its hovering at like 210 atm

i passed for now but might go back shrug

[trail anvil]

courier for omo is fun

[stark skiff]

yeah its nice for it. im trying out roaming throne

[sleek ferry]

https://youtu.be/8JJwAViH7vc?si=kdnhkRdzl18OxSye

[rigid scarab]

Nadu

[golden plover]

It's obviously Nadu

[sudden lava]

oh yeah forgot to post that part of the SL

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/V6OIi9rQZa5KR0LUCefguox86p3fcprAnuT4rhD6RXY/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/GQLp2AwakAA7MYx.jpg%3Alarge?format=webp&width=1097&height=545

this is the one shown for the NOT A WOLF secret lair today

[gritty nest]

what would you guys classify [[Expedition Map]] as? i'm stumped between Mana Rock and Mana Ramp

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/255/expedition-map

Expedition Map <:mana1:292901508373282827>

Artifact
, , Sacrifice Expedition Map: Search your library for a land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle.
"I use maps to find out where explorers have already been. Then I go the other way." —Javad Nasrin, Ondu relic hunter

[twilit canyon]

tutor

[granite badge]

Its neither

It doesn't directly increase the amount of mana you have

But it also doesn't let you get more lands then you nornally get on curve into play

So it isn't a rock and its not a ramp spell

[gritty nest]

fair

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/91dyyXXxPUaekbuDkhjwow

this is what I got it tagged as to see what I want to cut

[sudden lava]

its landraw

[fallow citrus]

no like misty said its a tutor

[sleek ferry]

https://x.com/yungdingomtg/status/1802459355901829489?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhiq8A

Dingo (@YungDingoMTG) on X

If you're ever doubting that MH3 was a big positive for modern, just remember that literal Cat Zoo top 8'd last night's challenge

Twitter · Jun 16, 2024, 9:52 PM

[lusty trench]

ocelot pride isn't in the list
WE GOING TO £2 MYTHIC LETS GO

[sleek ferry]

Ocelot pride is kinda too slow for this deck

[golden plover]

I kinda wanna try Ocelot Pride in like a soul sisters thing

4 Soul Guide, 4 Soul Sisters, Ocelot Pride, Ajani, whatever else

[sleek ferry]

Ocelot pride in soul sisters makes way more sense than in a naya landfall deck

[lusty trench]

Ocelot I've realised is a card that reads so much better than it is

It's still good and has places

But you see all that on a one drop and it's shocking

[sleek ferry]

The only thing that’s holding ocelot pride back is that it’s a 1/1 instead of a 1/2

[sudden lava]

only 2 days till Assincreed

[granite badge]

I've seen cards like expidition map be labeled as "mana fixing" before

Because you can use it to grab specific colors you need

[glad peak]

tbh i really dont like ocelot pride

it's not a great threat and even if it can get out of control, it's super slow

[lusty trench]

I think ass creed might be the lowest performing set this year

Maybe not worse than murders

Purely cause ass creed fan boys

[glad peak]

either making it a 2/1 or 1/2 would've made its pressure much much better even if one of the keywords or effects were removed

[lusty trench]

I just don't see who asked for it or why anyone would want it

[golden plover]

Yeah I think Ass Creed is gonna bomb HARD

[trail anvil]

I'm glad seeing pyrosurfer in here

[trail anvil]

didn't we say this about most other UBs

[lusty trench]

This is its own dedicated set though

[golden plover]

Unless it's got some CRAZY prints for commander and modern in it

[glad peak]

for the lands deck, i do not see a world where you'd remove expedition map, easily one of the best cards in a lands deck

[golden plover]

Those have been commander decks, this is a dedicated SET

[trail anvil]

I guess we'll see

some people are just obsessed with certain IPs

[lusty trench]

I wonder if they'll do another 1/1

[golden plover]

True, but I can't see there being enough overlap between AC fans and MTG fans

Tbh I can't see there being enough AC fans lmao

[lusty trench]

Is there any artifact that's entirely unique in ass creed

[golden plover]

Series kinda sucks now

[lusty trench]

Could do a 1/1 ezio ig?

[trail anvil]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

enough people buy the games for them to continue

[golden plover]

The animus or whatever?

[lusty trench]

Actually this has me thinking, what could be the 1/1 of the final fantasy set

[golden plover]

Sepiroth

THE final Fantasy

[lusty trench]

Nah there's unironically too many sephiroths

I also can't see people getting too hyped for the animus

Like you only see it during the bad parts of the early games

[sudden lava]

we're gonna get plenty of memory counter stuff

[hidden ermine]

Bahamut

[lusty trench]

They could do two 1/1s for holy and meteor

[granite badge]

Could it not be both, since what it searches is so narrow? Its ultimately pretty semantical anyway

[hidden ermine]

That only works with ff7 is the thing

[lusty trench]

It's gonna be mainly ff7

They've got remakes to shill

And a new mobile game

[hidden ermine]

I kinda doubt it tbh

I think it'll be most of the mainline games with maybe a focus on XVI if it gets a PC version

[golden plover]

Also, I feel like the 1/1 thing isn't gonna be as hyped the second time

Like... It worked really well for the One Ring because it's THE ONE RING

But it doesn't make as much sense for the Animus or Bahamut

[lusty trench]

All I know is the final fantasy set is gonna make me homeless

And my partner if they make a Zack card

[hidden ermine]

They might

Im just hoping for an Ardyn card

[lusty trench]

I wouldn't get hopes up but I could see it

[hidden ermine]

I mean he should be in it, he's one of the main villains

[golden plover]

Dude they gotta fucking ban Grief everywhere tbh

[lusty trench]

Depends on how much they want to shill the games people have fondness for

[golden plover]

FUCK SCAM

[lusty trench]

This man has been scammed out of house and home

He is now homeless

Pray for him, for he has no hands

[golden plover]

Scam is also just putting up results in every format

Fuck that shit

[gritty nest]

either way, I threw it in the potential cuts section of my list, ill probably end up keeping it tho, just need to figure things out mainly with the deck

[lusty trench]

If they don't make a Vivi card I riot

[fallow citrus]

the anime...

[lusty trench]

The animoose...

[hidden ermine]

... I like xv

[lusty trench]

You know what I meant, they're definitely assigning more cards to 4,6,7,9,10 and 14

Maybe 8, depends on how they're feeling

[hidden ermine]

Putting 4 in there is a choice lmao

4 and 9 i suppose

[lusty trench]

They make big money off 4 nostalgia

And 9 literally has a remake in the works

[golden plover]

In timeless how do you even interact with grief

Modern at least has Force

[lusty trench]

The rock

[golden plover]

Can't bauble t0

[lusty trench]

You can if you believe

[golden plover]

I guess I could run [[Leyline of Sanctity]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/m20/26/leyline-of-sanctity

Leyline of Sanctity <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Enchantment
If Leyline of Sanctity is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.
You have hexproof. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)

[lusty trench]

🙏

[golden plover]

But that'd require me being on white

Maybe we play Naya Soul Sisters just to do that

[glad peak]

I would highly recommend not cutting it from the deck and instead add more utility lands

[gritty nest]

i am at 37 lands as it stands, i mainly need card draw

[twilit canyon]

you need more mana generation before anything else if its just 37 lands

[gritty nest]

my curve isnt even high, and I already got 10 rocks/dorks total, and already a decent amount of ramp spells

no point in basic land ramp due to wanting a high amount of utility lands for the gimmick of "everything" matters, not sure what other mana generation I need at that point

[golden plover]

Okay yeah maybe Soul Sisters (Siblings now that there's a guy?) is the move for Timeless

[twilit canyon]

10 rocks + 37 lands is fine then

[golden plover]

At least in low tiers

Considering I can't get scammed

Also mono-white means it'll be easy to finish building

Just 2 more rares and 4 more mythics

[gritty nest]

nice

[granite badge]

whats the mana curve for edh like again

is it like

[glad peak]

The point was to remove basics to add more utility lands so better use map, especially since the commander works well with lands

[gritty nest]

depends on the deck and how efficient you want to be

[glad peak]

Generally normal but with less in the cmc of your commander(s) since you’ll always have access to them

But also you’re going to run a lot of staples and curving out isn’t as useful in the format so just run the staples first then fill it out from there

Alt: a wall of 1 and 2 drops with some 3+ drops in order to facilitate ad naus and a ton of draw power and play multiple things a turn and storm off

[gritty nest]

assuming this is cEDH im guessing?

[glad peak]

No just normal

[gritty nest]

never seen ad naus outside of cEDH

[glad peak]

🤷‍♂️it exists here and there

Including janky decks that run 90-95 lands

[trail anvil]

if you wanna cheese a table sure lol

thoracle "exists" outside of cedh but I would call both mostly cedh cards unless you're playing something like thassa

[gritty nest]

my friend runs it in mono blue merfolk tribal, because thematic

and also wins

i normally dont see cards outside of cEDH unless its on theme for their deck or they like mudkip said, built a one trick deck that only wins with those cards

[glad peak]

What is casual edh if not to cheese

But also what people consider casual and competitive is so blurry I don’t really consider those good categorizations

[gritty nest]

fair

i play what I want but dont buy stuff like OG Duals/Crypt etc.

[trail anvil]

if you don't wanna use labels then out of the total number of commander games ad naus is probably not seeing nearly that much play because you have to keep the average cmc low to go dozens of cards deep into your deck

[glad peak]

I know some people use the level system but that system is so flawed I don’t think it’s useful to use

[trail anvil]

for the decks you do want to ad naus in sure, you wanna keep the curve low

[gritty nest]

i try to just ask "whats the goal of the deck, infinites/no infinites, and what turn is the average win?"

[twilit canyon]

plenty of ppl cheese with ad naus

[glad peak]

I remember one guy who played all the pacts and ad naus with the “you can’t lose the game” effects since that was the theme of his deck and that was pretty funny

[twilit canyon]

its one of the most well known cards to pair with angel's grace or unlife

[glad peak]

But even in what people consider casual, ad naus isn’t too uncommon, just need to put it with something that fits

[twilit canyon]

its a super popular expensive black spell

ppl run it for sure

[trail anvil]

I don't think I've ever seen it outside of cedh

I imagine you could just run it in any black deck but not get super crazy value

[glad peak]

I also remember seeing quite a few people running it just because they want to gamble

[trail anvil]

but building your whole curve below 3 sounds like you're getting closer and closer to cedh unless you're doing a very specific build

like lurrus stuff/auras

[glad peak]

Storm is pretty common casually so I wouldn’t say that’s really the angle either

[gritty nest]

not trying to sound mean but I find it funny that this all derailed because of me trying to ask about Omo

[trail anvil]

sure, or storm

[glad peak]

Just good solid fundamental deckbuilding

[trail anvil]

speaking of your omo build, that doesn't seem like a lot of gas for her, I feel like you're going to stall out a decent amount

[gritty nest]

thats what ive been dealing with

was looking into maybe adding Guardian Project/Rhystic Study

and Descendant's Path

also going to add Maze's End, because wincons

[trail anvil]

that may work, I also just generally run advantage creating creatures like [[spawning kraken]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/c21/33/spawning-kraken

Spawning Kraken <:mana5:292901508796645386><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Kraken
Whenever a Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus, or Serpent you control deals combat damage to a player, create a 9/9 blue Kraken creature token.
"I never imagined I'd lay eyes on a creature that makes Gyruda look small and harmless!" —Lukka
6/6

[gritty nest]

saw that, had that on my maybe list but wasnt sure because of mana value

but also simic

[trail anvil]

are you running a bunch of gates?

don't worry about mana value, you make a ton reliably

usually at minimum you get a free ancient tomb off a tron land

[gritty nest]

i havent changed the land base much

[trail anvil]

[[baldur's gate]] is also really good, especially the harder you lean into gates

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/345/baldurs-gate

Baldur's Gate

Legendary Land — Gate
: Add .
, : Add X mana of any one color, where X is the number of other Gates you control.
"Of course I know what 'eponymous' means! It's a little horse." —Krizz, gate guard

[gritty nest]

here ill repost the list if you need me to?

[trail anvil]

did you update it since you posted it above

[gritty nest]

no

[trail anvil]

nah I have the link

[gritty nest]

the only gates in the deck are Basilisk Gate, Talon Gates of Madara, and technically Planar Nexus

my LGS didnt have Baldur's Gate or Maze's End which sucked, ill have to order them online

oh sorry i have simic guildgate too, so 4 total

[trail anvil]

[[circuitous route]] might go hard too considering you always have gates with your commander so you're essentially searching up a cloudpost + potential phase

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/znc/62/circuitous-route

Circuitous Route <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manag:292901508654301185>

Sorcery
Search your library for up to two basic land cards and/or Gate cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
"The shortest path between two points is not always the safest." —Tamina, district guide

[gritty nest]

forgot that card existed

[trail anvil]

I did too until now

[gritty nest]

threw 5 cards into the considering side of things

i'll probably add Spawning Kraken, but im already at 35 creatures before making changes lol

[trail anvil]

I personally would cut some of the lords but I'm guessing you wanna play up that side of it?

in my experience the only lords worth running are the ones that give another effect like [[oona's scion]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/woc/109/de/oonas-spross

Oonas Spross <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Kreatur — Feenwesen, Soldat
Aufblitzen
Fliegend
Andere Feenwesen-Kreaturen, die du kontrollierst, erhalten +1/+1.
Andere Feenwesen, die du kontrollierst, haben Verhülltheit. (Sie können nicht das Ziel von Zaubersprüchen oder Fähigkeiten sein.)
1/1

[trail anvil]

uh

[[scion of oona]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mma/63/scion-of-oona

Scion of Oona <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Faerie Soldier
Flash
Flying
Other Faerie creatures you control get +1/+1.
Other Faeries you control have shroud. (They can't be the targets of spells or abilities.)
1/1

[trail anvil]

[[azami, lady of scrolls]] is another big advantage engine

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/74/azami-lady-of-scrolls

Azami, Lady of Scrolls <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Tap an untapped Wizard you control: Draw a card.
"Choices belong to those with the luxuries of time and distance. We have neither. I recommend we proceed with the plan to destroy all shrines of the kami." —Lady Azami, letter to Sensei Hisoka
0/2

[gritty nest]

yea, I need to get the illusion Lord, gives 1/1 and hexproof im pretty sure

[trail anvil]

pairs well with xolotoyac too

[gritty nest]

i thought about adding [[baru, wurmspeaker]] because 4 mana +2/+2 and trample im pretty sure

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/26/baru-wurmspeaker

Baru, Wurmspeaker <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Human Druid
Wurms you control get +2/+2 and have trample.
, : Create a 4/4 green Wurm creature token. This ability costs less to activate, where X is the greatest power among Wurms you control.
3/3

[trail anvil]

yeah there's a treefolk lord too that gives indestructible but he's pricey

[gritty nest]

only 10 bucks

[trail anvil]

probably decent since he gives you something to do with your mana

[gritty nest]

i dont mind buying stuff like rhystic study or that treefolk, but not dropping over $100 for a single card

[trail anvil]

huh thought he was $27 or something, misremembered

[gritty nest]

let me double check to be sure

listings are as low as $8.50

but marketprice hovers about 12 for Lorwyn print and 7 for the borderless LOTR print

[twilit canyon]

are u already running the one ring

if we are talking advantage engines

[gritty nest]

no, dont have it

[trail anvil]

shit I should've bought one

[gritty nest]

but its lowest listing seems to be $70 lol

[trail anvil]

lol

[gritty nest]

everything ive thrown into considering

[trail anvil]

[[titan of littjara]] goes super hard too

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/728/titan-of-littjara

Titan of Littjara <:mana4:292901508712890379><:manau:292901508754702338><:manau:292901508754702338>

Creature — Illusion
As Titan of Littjara enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
Titan of Littjara is the chosen type in addition to its other types.
Whenever Titan of Littjara enters the battlefield or attacks, you may draw a card for each other creature you control that shares a creature type with it. If you do, discard a card.
6/6

[gritty nest]

ill keep expedition map because i forgot who said it, but it does tutor my non basic lands which is helpful

[trail anvil]

if it's left unchecked/if you run blink you draw a ridiculous amount

even the first etb typically gets you at least a draw 4 discard 1

[gritty nest]

true, and the more everything counters the potential more draws

[trail anvil]

ye, and even more since everything counter creatures are changelings you can declare the type that doesn't have an everything counter on it and draw 1 more

[gritty nest]

exactly yea

[trail anvil]

pairs well with scute swarm and similar effects too

[gritty nest]

is there anything you think im forgetting to add?

true, but i didnt see the point of keeping the landfall stuff like scute swarm when Omo is pretty slow at distributing the counters

other than having bodies

[trail anvil]

honestly I like [[doppelgang]] but I'm that kind of simic gamer

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/198/doppelgang

Doppelgang <:manax:292901509082120202><:manax:292901509082120202><:manax:292901509082120202><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Sorcery
For each of X target permanents, create X tokens that are copies of that permanent.
"Suspect spotted at the Tin Street Market, Yescu Street entrance. And the Oak Street entrance. And somehow also in Lobar Alley!" —Avult of the Foundway Associates

[trail anvil]

it does pair really well with lords though

[gritty nest]

true

i could swap [[Aggressive Biomancy]] for it

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/69/aggressive-biomancy

Aggressive Biomancy <:manax:292901509082120202><:manax:292901509082120202><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Sorcery
Create X tokens that are copies of target creature you control, except they have "When this creature enters the battlefield, it fights up to one target creature you don't control."
"I am an esteemed scientist. Base violence is beneath me. Luckily, it's not beneath my subjects." —Gulistan, Simic biomancer

[gritty nest]

well

biomancy makes x copies of one creature that fights things, while doppelgang creates X copies of X permanents

biomancy can be removal or a boardwipe in the right scenario

and if I find a lord that gives haste that can potentially be a KO

[trail anvil]

yeah they both fill their own niche. I still think you'll have the mana for either

[gritty nest]

true

[trail anvil]

oh [[crop rotation]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/154/crop-rotation

Crop Rotation <:manag:292901508654301185>

Instant
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice a land.
Search your library for a land card, put that card onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
"Hmm ... maybe lotuses this year."

[trail anvil]

big consistency boost

[gritty nest]

also from a quick search, afaik Concordant Crossroads and [[Surrak, the Hunt Caller]] seems to be the only things i can think of to give haste to everything

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/326/surrak-the-hunt-caller

Surrak, the Hunt Caller <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Human Warrior
Formidable — At the beginning of combat on your turn, if creatures you control have total power 8 or greater, target creature you control gains haste until end of turn.
"The greatest honor is to feed Atarka."
5/4

[gritty nest]

but last I checked crossroads isnt cheap

what

i thought it used to be $40

gonna be adding that into the considering list

[twilit canyon]

it used to be 40. now it is not

[sleek ferry]

Alright my rakdos anvil deck has evolved

To mardu anvil high noon control

[twilit canyon]

so it got worse

damn

[sleek ferry]

Nah, it got better since I get to play March

And March is the best removal spell in standard

[twilit canyon]

p sure thats get lost still

or shedict

[gritty nest]

[trail anvil]

march answers boros better, get lost answers planeswalkers

[sleek ferry]

Eh, I get it, but March hitting just about everything besides planeswalkers matters so much

[twilit canyon]

does it really answer boros better? the last thing u want vs boros is to spend time answering their 1s and 0s with removal

[trail anvil]

that said isn't anvil happy being rakdos

[twilit canyon]

yes

[sleek ferry]

Anvil is very happy into aggro yeah

[trail anvil]

it's 1 mana answer to demo

[twilit canyon]

ehhh i guess

[trail anvil]

and you don't want to give boros more gas imo

cause every point matters

[sleek ferry]

You lose to other midrange tbh, at least pre-side

[trail anvil]

both are meh otherwise though yeah spot removal is rough unless you're hitting warfare

or whatever it's called

[twilit canyon]

ill be honest id be very surprised if march is optimal outside of hard control

or playing white in a rakdos list for that matter

[sleek ferry]

Anvil also feels way worse in bo1 than bo3. I was playing bo1 then played 2 straight opponents that hard drew the 1 of brotherhood’s end, so I had to go back to bo3

[trail anvil]

I feel like you really wanna play on curve with anvil too no?

that 1 drop into anvil play pattern seems important

[sleek ferry]

Yeah, I mean everything you have is 3 cmc or less. You’re splashing white in your fast lands, you’re also not going super hard on your mulligans but you’re definitely mulliganing to see an anvil or legion + creature

[stark skiff]

Today’s pickups (ignore the horse guy it’s for Omo lol)

[trail anvil]

adding in white even with the fast lands seems like it'll lead to more color screw to me

shiny

[stark skiff]

Glad to finally finish the Borderless foil shocklands from RVR

[trail anvil]

oh @gritty nest field of the dead

[gritty nest]

not as expensive as I was thinking, but ill potentially pick it up if I see one at locals

[stark skiff]

we talking omo techs?

[gritty nest]

yes

[stark skiff]

theres a bunch of fun ones what do you wanna do

[gritty nest]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/91dyyXXxPUaekbuDkhjwow

ill just resend it so you dont have to scroll a decent bit to find it

[trail anvil]

https://archidekt.com/decks/8075038/edh_omo_no_budget this is my current omo list without budget constraint, if you're looking for more ideas

[stark skiff]

oh you're missing a bunch of fun ones

[gritty nest]

that reminds me I have a whelming Wave to add to my deck

Multiclass Baldric for omo im guessing? nice

[trail anvil]

these were also the current considerations for reference

[stark skiff]

Leaf-Crowned Elder, Lord of the Unreal, Lullmage Mentor, Myr Galvanizer, Biowaste Blob, Timber Protector, Multiclass Baldric, Mass Appeal, Raise the Palisade, Whelming Wave, etc.

[gritty nest]

you can actually see the considering pile on moxfield

its below the deck list

[trail anvil]

ah

but yeah baldric is just a great pile of keywords

[stark skiff]

Merrow Commerce

[gritty nest]

yea fair

[trail anvil]

you can put it on big creatures too for obvious reasons

[stark skiff]

Azami

[gritty nest]

guessing you still run Avenger/Baloth/Scute because more bodies is nice

and because Maskwood Nexus

[stark skiff]

oh and you really wanna play Sea Gate Loremaster

[trail anvil]

honestly even on the offchance you're not using big synergies with them, a bunch of bodies are nice for getting to late game

baloth in particular just develops threats on its own

[gritty nest]

[[Leaf-Crowned Elder]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mor/128/leaf-crowned-elder

Leaf-Crowned Elder <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manag:292901508654301185>

Creature — Treefolk Shaman
Kinship — At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with Leaf-Crowned Elder, you may reveal it. If you do, you may play that card without paying its mana cost.
3/5

[gritty nest]

fair enough

[stark skiff]

robe of the archmagi is funny

[gritty nest]

Didn't know it exists
already planned
meh, its good but debatable when the people i play against believe removal is the plague, which means counterspelling 1 card is enough for their deck to fall apart.
thought about it
same as Galvanizer
need to get
thought it was kinda mid because the part to prevent damage doesnt just automatically activate until you have enough creatures to consider having a full party
fair enough, but I want repeatable draw over one time draw
fair enough
need to add it, forgot I had one

Commerce is good, forgot about it
azami is in the considering list
fair for Loremaster

i could honestly cut Vivien Reid, Monument to Perfection maybe

am I wrong on assuming Baldric does nothing until you have enough creatures to consider having a full party?

[trail anvil]

[[multiclass baldric]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/684/multiclass-baldric

Multiclass Baldric <:mana1:292901508373282827>

Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature has lifelink if you control a Cleric, deathtouch if you control a Rogue, haste if you control a Warrior, and flying if you control a Wizard.
As long as you have a full party, prevent all damage that would be dealt to equipped creature.
Equip

[trail anvil]

nop it does everything as long as you have omo with an everything counter. party as a mechanic is just like that specifically

[stark skiff]

the first part is good

the second part needs individual creatures

[trail anvil]

well the damage prevention, yeah

[stark skiff]

but yeah first part alone is usually enough

[gritty nest]

okay fair

is my thought process wrong with lullmage, or still "fuck it we add it"

lol

okay updated the considering list to add in most of the stuff that was said

thank you guys for the advice btw

[trail anvil]

ye

[gritty nest]

how's Omo for you with all the work youve made?

[trail anvil]

pretty fun, I like using the endgame payoffs

[gritty nest]

i'm guessing your goal is go wide with the lords/landfall and either whelming wave/cyclone summoner for easy cleanup?

[trail anvil]

the lords in my deck are less for the +1s and more for protection, although that part is decent in the midgame

but yeah both of those are really good with cleanup and march from velis vel and finale of devastation are really good finishers

[gritty nest]

i am dumb, whats the point of march from velis vel? just turn everything into a lord for big damage?

or well, make everything spawning krakens lol

[trail anvil]

sure, or create a bunch of spawning kraken, or whatever

there's almost always something you can duplicate to get crazy value

[stark skiff]

have you tried the goyf or energy deck?

[gritty nest]

fair

ill have to find mine again and add it back then

[trail anvil]

those are the only precons I haven't tried actually lol

[gritty nest]

goyf and energy is fun

my friend mixed the energy deck with the Fallout one, plus added some stuff from the main set it was missing

its disgusting

[stark skiff]

ah the collectors of those are so cheap im debating buying one. the goyf is pretty underwhelming from all the gameplay ive seen of it but the 2nd commander seems neat.

The Energy one sounds fun with copying like Terror of the Peaks or some shit

[gritty nest]

i wasnt impressed by goyfs myself

what did you guys think of Eldrazi?

[trail anvil]

eldrazi one seems pretty powerful

[stark skiff]

just picked it up but i wanna mess with the 2nd commander more than the face one

face one seems like you want all the big boys etb but the deck has a bunch of scions lol

[gritty nest]

i made a decent chunk of changes focused on the face commander

and yea Azlask looks fun as hell for experience counters

someone at locals was complaining that he sucks for 5c experience and im like "yeah, but no?"

afaik theres a lot of good experience counter makers right?

[trail anvil]

I feel like azlask will stack up counters real fast if you build around it

but yeah there's some other good ones

[gritty nest]

true

[stark skiff]

you dont need them

[gritty nest]

run token doublers at minimum

[stark skiff]

scions just die on their own

and your in green so doublers

[gritty nest]

[[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] i can see

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/346/meren-of-clan-nel-toth

Meren of Clan Nel Toth <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Human Shaman
Whenever another creature you control dies, you get an experience counter.
At the beginning of your end step, choose target creature card in your graveyard. If that card's mana value is less than or equal to the number of experience counters you have, return it to the battlefield. Otherwise, put it into your hand.
3/4

[trail anvil]

it's less about making more experience counters and more taking advantage of the ones you already have

[gritty nest]

fair

I definitely thought about building around it

[trail anvil]

like [[orthari suns' glory]] is an instant board

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/onc/39/otharri-suns-glory

Otharri, Suns' Glory <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manar:292901508796645397><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Phoenix
Flying, lifelink, haste
Whenever Otharri, Suns' Glory attacks, you get an experience counter. Then create a 2/2 red Rebel creature token that's tapped and attacking for each experience counter you have.
, Tap an untapped Rebel you control: Return Otharri from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
3/3

[stark skiff]

yeah you just wanna get to 5c fast and have tokens by then to destory others boards

[trail anvil]

minthara makes your scions ginormous

[gritty nest]

minthara?

oh

(im looking at edhrec while talking about this)

[stark skiff]

Otharri, Minthara, and Meren are the best ones if you wanna build experience counters for good value too

[gritty nest]

maybe [[Ezuri, Claw of Progress]] for counters too if you're trying to get Minthara still

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/211/ezuri-claw-of-progress

Ezuri, Claw of Progress <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185><:manau:292901508754702338>

Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Elf Warrior
Whenever a creature with power 2 or less enters the battlefield under your control, you get an experience counter.
At the beginning of combat on your turn, put X +1/+1 counters on another target creature you control, where X is the number of experience counters you have.
3/3

[gritty nest]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Wemp5eow3Uive8cv5ZbhtA here's what ive done so far for Eldrazi

[lusty trench]

What's the leyline for?

Also this deck runs better with the other commander in the lead cause it's Scion based

[trail anvil]

I heard the opposite, that the precon doesn't have enough scion cards to justify going the other commander right out the box

ulalek worked pretty well as a commander when I played it

[gritty nest]

it had a bunch of on cast create scions/spawns

and ulalek can abuse that easier in the command zone than azlask

[lusty trench]

Ah that's fair, I never got to try the deck myself so I just assumed

[gritty nest]

also flash for the leyline

its also why cicada and battlethopter is there

[lusty trench]

Yeah I'm just confused why you want flash so bad

[gritty nest]

because ulalek copies every spell you control when you activate it

the more ways to get flash the better, and getting multiple copies of anything, including utility stuff

can get out of hand

[lusty trench]

Ah so you cast a bunch of shit and then flash an eldrazi at the end

Gotcha

[gritty nest]

yeee

or at the very least i can stack up rishkar's expertise twice and start casting more stuff for free

im genuienly surprised at how well this deck runs honestly, but its also mostly colorless

[stark skiff]

play Emergence Zone

and where the heck is Vedalken Orrery

[gritty nest]

in the

"i didnt own this card so its not there" category

[lusty trench]

I'm also not huge on the 7 mana make 5 scions card but that's just me personally

[gritty nest]

im mixed up on it myself, but at the time i was tied between cutting it or a less useful eldrazi

i decided to cut the eldrazi creature because it both reduced my colored pips needed and was less useful than skittering invasion

also for emergence zone, I wanted to like it, but I dont like the fact its a 1 turn flash that i have to sack, it'll have its very niche cases and even then, ill have the other cards already to just go "okay all is dust at your combat when youre tapped out"

and also because with Ulalek youre mana hungry

[lusty trench]

Oh right, you have a breaker of armies so you're obligated to make the joke

[gritty nest]

?

[lusty trench]

He's broken your armies so now he's breaking ya leggies

[gritty nest]

oh

"your free trial to blockers has expired"

[trail anvil]

don't forget you can copy annihilator triggers too

[gritty nest]

and cascade

[trail anvil]

yeet

[stark skiff]

anyone have some recommended pickups for the other eldrazi commander?

wanna try and make him

[gritty nest]

well scion/spawn makers, token doublers

probably hoof/moonshaker cavalry as well

but i also dont know your budget

[lusty trench]

It's Adam, if it's cardboard that's shiny they're all over it

[gritty nest]

so basically

budget = if its shiny im adding it to cart

what do you guys think of EDHREC? I stopped relying on it as much since ive started getting somewhat better at card choices, ill still look at it now and then though if im stumped

[lusty trench]

It's a flawed system but if you just use it to float ideas it's not bad

[trail anvil]

I think if you just grab the recommended deck it's already a decent start to a build. might not be perfect but it's definitely functional

but yeah usually it's just best for finding cards you didn't think about/know about before

[lusty trench]

The worst part about it is it's a self fulfilling loop

[gritty nest]

yea

it pulls from public listed decks

which tends to cause lack of innovation imo, and cookie cutter

[lusty trench]

A recommendation from it gets put in more decks which makes it get recommended more

[trail anvil]

well yeah I meant using it for the core of the deck more than the spice

that's the next step in deckbuilding, but I like to test it first so I know what changes I wanna make. that's how I ended up at my current omo list

[last glen]

Working with filters can help refine the cards shown to those that are working specifically with your strategy and/or power level

[stark skiff]

[sleek ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-weak-sauce-im-ded-dead-i'm-dead-gif-9570163115388730270

[trail anvil]

I will say though if you choose a commander that has a precon then edhrec will keep suggesting precon cards cause everybody just uploads that list or budget upgrades lol

[stark skiff]

Did you see the purchases for today?

[sleek ferry]

Yeah, you’re killing it man, hope you’re putting those cards to good fun

I’ll make sure to shout you out once I make the pro tour

https://tenor.com/view/doug-dimmadome-fairly-odd-parents-dimmsdale-dimmadome-gif-8035806

[stark skiff]

Yeah been having a blast using Will Scion of Peace at my locals lol

Still need more stuff for Omo and now I got the Eldrazi Scion version to make

[stark skiff]

Wow magic GOAT

[trail anvil]

fml I was so close 😭, first loss I got bad mulligans then got mana screwed, second loss I misplayed slightly and lost by 1 life, third loss I just ran into a dude who drafted perfect temur eldrazi

this deck felt pretty decent tho

[sleek ferry]

https://x.com/saffronolive/status/1802308199405502676?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhiq8A

Saffron Olive (@SaffronOlive) on X

So Boros...

Twitter · Jun 16, 2024, 11:52 AM

[twilit canyon]

boros energy is so fucking nice

but

it is a deck that absolutely has no game vs fury

like if there ever was a deck that loses to fury

its this one

its so bad vs fury

you have no answer to it too

[golden plover]

Huh Soul Siblings is doing better than expected rn. Funny to just go "Oh btw you can't grief me and I'll gain 2 life"

[trail anvil]

hot damn there goes phlage

pls more stonks so I can peddle my paper copy

[lusty trench]

Seems the limited environment for mh3 has been solved now

We welcome the new goat

[golden plover]

Yeah, dude is FUCKED UP in limited

[fallow citrus]

a pretty good card yeah

[golden plover]

His stealth reach comes up a lot

[lusty trench]

Fucked up to put that in between two lines of text

[trail anvil]

wait why is it lmao

reach isn't supposed to be next to devoid?

[golden plover]

Devoid has to come first, then it has to be the cast trigger

Devoid isn't a keyword in the same sense as Reach

It has to be written that way, but it does lead to the stealth reach

[twilit canyon]

not on arena

[lusty trench]

If you angle shoot like that in limited idk what to say, on arena sure no take backs but damn just let the dude reassign attackers

I literally do not care about take backs in limited, if you didn't see something cause we're playing fast or something go for it my guy

[golden plover]

The stealth reach doesn't come up on Arena yeah, but people do miss it in person and it changes combat math

[twilit canyon]

that doesnt happen anymore

do u guys draft on arena?

[trail anvil]

eh if you're playing for prizing I get being a stickler over attack takebacks. I personally would allow it but it's meant to be somewhat competitive

[twilit canyon]

they added a massive bow and arrow to reach creatures

[golden plover]

I've drafted the set both in person and arena

In person, the stealth reach came up at least once

[trail anvil]

yeah stealth reach isn't a thing on arena

[fallow citrus]

yeah it's impossible to miss reach on arena

[golden plover]

When prizing is on the line, the stealth reach does in fact matter

[twilit canyon]

in person sure but if ur not reading cards and playing for prizing idk what to say

[lusty trench]

I don't care even about prizing in this situation the pack isn't worth winning like that

[golden plover]

I'm not saying people are missing it every time

I'm just saying it being in the middle very much does come up

[lusty trench]

I don't want to hear any "damn I could've had it if I didn't misplay" stuff

I think the only exception is if they make the same mistake multiple times

[golden plover]

Even without the stealth reach, he's still a very good card

[lusty trench]

Yeah, dude is just value

[golden plover]

Him and Nyxborn Hydra make a really strong argument for green aggro pretty much every time

[trail anvil]

I'm not saying you are, but if someone is doing that I'm not gonna chastise them

[golden plover]

Yeah, it's one thing if you're drafting with friends

[trail anvil]

man I just looked at my original sealed pool and I actually had a really decent gruul/temur eldrazi core 😔

[golden plover]

But it a dude at my LGS were to not remind their opponent of the stealth reach and it changes the game, it's not really on them

[trail anvil]

man my tricky terrain precon came in and I managed to switch out a lot more cards than I thought I would be able to

I'm hyped to play this deck, even though the rest of my cards might not be coming for a while

[sleek ferry]

https://youtu.be/r8N-kex8EMY?si=OC6_qkuyPmg67QUL

[trail anvil]

bruh holy shit this deck on p1p4

[gritty nest]

Do you guys think keeping the pain lands in something like the 5 color eldrazi deck is a good idea?

[copper pecan]

yes

[gritty nest]

I figured, was talking to someone about the eldrazi deck and was told I should cut all the pains

[trail anvil]

it makes 2 colors and colorless while being untapped?

[glad peak]

It’s literally a tricolor land for them

[gritty nest]

exactly

i asked because like "am i going crazy am I ignorant what am I missing??"

[trail anvil]

did you ask their reasoning lmao

I don't think I can actually think of a better land cycle for that deck?

[glad peak]

There’s always fetches with tri (if slower) and duals to cover most of the color needs

Colorless is the tricky part

[trail anvil]

fetches are technically more flexible cause they can hit all 5 colors with triomes, but the colorless matters cards appreciate pain lands more I'm sure

especially considering colorless serves as any of the colors in ulalek itself

[gritty nest]

I agree on cutting the temples but not the pains lol

[glad peak]

Do you have the list on hand?

[trail anvil]

oh they want you to run the dogshit commons with cycling lmao

[gritty nest]

yea

[glad peak]

Ew lol

[gritty nest]

i was just curious what people thought with what I had

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Wemp5eow3Uive8cv5ZbhtA

[trail anvil]

I think those things are realistically runnable if you're really pressed on a budget, but no way they're better

[gritty nest]

and the precon basically comes with the optimal land base, maybe swapping out other colorless lands for better options

but the pain lands are too good to remove imo

[trail anvil]

[[kozilek's unsealing]] is the first thing that comes to mind

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/65/kozileks-unsealing

Kozilek's Unsealing <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Enchantment
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Whenever you cast a creature spell with mana value 4, 5, or 6, create two 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature tokens with "Sacrifice this creature: Add ."
Whenever you cast a creature spell with mana value 7 or greater, draw three cards.

[gritty nest]

yea

[glad peak]

Temples aren’t good and realistically the basics aren’t good but cutting the painlands aren’t the issue

[gritty nest]

I have a list made of stuff I want to get

i am mixed on the temples personally

but in 5c decks theyre especially awful

[glad peak]

Tbh I think you have enough colorless sources to not really need them

[gritty nest]

like yea it lets you get a peek at something you might not want, but you dont want to open 4 temples and be stuck lagging behind

[glad peak]

The manabase portion of your deck’s pretty well set up to handle any mana issues

[trail anvil]

the talismans especially

is [[$ugin's binding]] still money?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/76/ugins-binding

Prices for Ugin's Binding

Modern Horizons 3

$15.42 • €9.16 • 1.54 TIX

Modern Horizons 3

$15.50 • 2.24 TIX

[glad peak]

Being able to run all 10 and get full benefit is great

[trail anvil]

I'd consider this one, but I think this thing is gonna fall further as time goes on

[gritty nest]

yea i actually had a list made out of stuff to get

Definite Adds

Conduit of Ruin
Writhing Chrysalis
Forerunner of Slaughter
Herald of Kozilek
Kozilek's Unsealing
Path of Annihilation
Abstruse Appropriation
Kindred Dominance
Catacomb Sifter
Ugin's Binding

the Abstruse Appropriation probably wont be that great

but the art is gorgeous

[trail anvil]

yeah it goes hard as hell

[gritty nest]

it was also a dollar

[trail anvil]

[[ulalek, fused monstrosity]]

[lost widget]

No card found for “ulalek, fused monstrosity”

[trail anvil]

[[ulalek, fused atrocity]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/4/ulalek-fused-atrocity

Ulalek, Fused Atrocity <:manacw:1242710127522484306><:manacu:1242710125576454194><:manacb:1242710122304770078><:manacr:1242710123999264800><:manacg:1242710123210870824>

Legendary Creature — Eldrazi
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Whenever you cast an Eldrazi spell, you may pay . If you do, copy all spells you control, then copy all other activated and triggered abilities you control. You may choose new targets for the copies. (Mana abilities can't be copied.)
2/5

[trail anvil]

damn eldrazi not colorless

[gritty nest]

yea

its why I added flash stuff

[trail anvil]

ye

[gritty nest]

the only thing I can really do at this point is like

optimize the creature lineup and maybe add better utility stuff

[trail anvil]

are you gonna do orrery too or nah

[gritty nest]

[[Vedalken Orrery]]?

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/317/vedalken-orrery

Vedalken Orrery <:mana4:292901508712890379>

Artifact
You may cast spells as though they had flash.
The model incorporated the fifth sun effortlessly, as if it had always known.

[gritty nest]

if I can find one probably

[[$Vedalken Orrery]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/317/vedalken-orrery

Prices for Vedalken Orrery

Magic Online Promos

0.13 TIX

Double Masters 2022

$6.66 • €3.75 • 0.02 TIX

Double Masters 2022

$7.76 • €6.48

Double Masters 2022

$6.58

The List

$6.12 • €4.65

Conspiracy

$5.82 • €3.86

Fifth Dawn

$5.51 • €3.74 • 0.02 TIX

[gritty nest]

i would get an eye of ugin for the deck but theyre almost $80 each now

[trail anvil]

whew

[gritty nest]

yea lol

[stark skiff]

Woah didn’t know that lol. Think I have mine from the masters Eldrazi deck haha

[gritty nest]

nice

it was like $40 when the Zhulodok deck came out, then im guessing climbed higher with Ulalek

[atomic harness]

@twilit canyon the semi goat is back for 3 videos (this and next week) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlcdN1FZZzo

[twilit canyon]

lol

honestly mh3 has been the best thing to happen to magic in a while

[stark skiff]

[broken fjord]

Trying to figure out where to jam my WoPs. Something with Grand Abolisher and/or Revel in Silence in it.

[urban crane]

Look what I just got

[rigid scarab]

Crazy how MKM released the second commander with 2 syllables in its main name (First one ending with O and second ending with A) that's powerful enough that casual tables groan when they're played but weak enough to be laughed out of cEDH tables

[lusty trench]

Voja players after you counter their commander (how dare you not let them do the thing (win the game))

[sleek ferry]

it's pretty crazy tbh. they approached it in such a good way too

bringing popular themes back to the limelight, and powering up others that people may have not even had on their radar

I still think MH2's ceiling was higher due to the elementals, but in terms of what the better designed set is, it's MH3

[golden plover]

Outside of like Nadu and the evoke elementals being added to Arena, MH3 is a lot more balanced too

[sleek ferry]

and Nadu is only a real issue in commander as of now

I'm not saying it's bannable or anything, but raptor is the card raising the most eyebrows right now

but like I said, idt it's ban worthy

[golden plover]

Nadu is getting a lot of testing in modern and stuff too

There's Legacy builds too

It's just too early for consistent lists

I can see Nadu getting banned everywhere outside of Commander in the foreseeable future

[modern minnow]

trying to think who the first was

[rigid scarab]

Moneybags emojis to whoever gets what I'm talking about

[rigid scarab]

I heard there are even cedh spelltable lobbies banning Nadu

[lusty trench]

I will pay rent

[golden plover]

Yeah Nadu is a problem card

I don't see the RC banning him, but they really should

[lusty trench]

Nadu ain't getting a commander hit, and if it does, krark sakashima needs a hit too for the same reason

Long non deterministic combos

[golden plover]

Watch them ban thoracle and shuko in modern, leave Thoracle unhit in commander, and then leave Nadu unhit everywhere

[golden plover]

The difference is that Nadu ramps you the whole time too

[lusty trench]

If they hit thoracle and shuko in commander that'd be alright with me

[golden plover]

I want Thoracle dead in commander

[lusty trench]

Krark sakashima doesn't need the ramp though

[golden plover]

But it's probably not gonna happen

[sleek ferry]

Krark Sakashima also goes infinite on the same turn as Nadu too, I agree with Jot on this one

[golden plover]

I think Nadu is probably stronger than Krark Sakashima ngl

But the testing hasn't happened yet for that

[lusty trench]

Nadu isn't breaking cedh or anything either

It's just being played a lot because it's being talked about

Same thing happened with Stella lee

[golden plover]

Yeah, it'll depend on how it looks in a few months when the hype dies down

Nadu isn't the best cedh commander ever printed or anything

[sleek ferry]

I'm waiting to see Nadu vs real cedh commanders before I make a judgment, but my initial reactions are still the same. Nadu has a niche, but that niche in the current cedh meta isn't good enough to dominate

[golden plover]

But I bet he'll prove to be very strong

[sleek ferry]

nadu will be a solid option, but it just won't be as good as some of the best midrange commanders in cedh

IE Kinnan

[lusty trench]

They still lose to the tactically inevitable value incarnation traitor

[sudden lava]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uicFvwDDlBQ&ab_channel=Magic%3ATheGathering

[sleek ferry]

Nadu decks also lose to Nadu being killed on sight

[golden plover]

I can't see Nadu eating an EDH ban, but maybe he'd finally be what gets Thoracle banned hopefully

[sudden lava]

1 hour and 34 minutes

[golden plover]

That'd be the ideal timeline

[lusty trench]

Nadu Vs a single dress down

[sleek ferry]

being in simic also means you're in worse colors to try to set up a win without Nadu coming down

[golden plover]

But the issue is that the RC are way more likely to wanna hit Nadu

Since they don't like making cedh hits outside of flash

[lusty trench]

Nah they let problem commanders for casual tables exist

The exception was leavold cause he's just "you stop playing the game now"

[golden plover]

I mean Golos was a problem commander for casual tables (and the correct hit)

[lusty trench]

He was a deck building problem though

[sleek ferry]

RC committee is a joke anyways. CGB made a video clowning on their reasonings for bannings just yesterday

[golden plover]

Worst timeline banlist:
Commander:
-Volya
Modern:
-Shuko
-Thoracle
-Like Puresteel in 2 months when Bant Nadu pops up

I can see the "Historically, Puresteel Paladin has been a problem card in the past and with the advent of decks utilizing Nadu from Modern Horizons 3" now

[rigid scarab]

(It's Koma)

[lusty trench]

Casual players need more interaction I swear to god

[golden plover]

Nah, but interaction makes me sad

[modern minnow]

only time ive ever seen this card when ive griefed myself in vintage cube by trying to put it into a deck

[rigid scarab]

Tbf, same thing with Voja in Koma being hard to remove

Uncounterable and makes himself indestructible first thing he can

And I do think 'play more removal' is only slightly true

And the phrase is losing its meaning

[lusty trench]

If you see a koma or voja in your opponents command zone and you don't hold an instant speed destroy or a board wipe respectively either you're misplaying or you have bigger issues at your table

[rigid scarab]

Yes but I can see why those commanders can be groan-inducing at casual tables

They make the game kinda all about themselves until you destroy their commander like twice

[golden plover]

Koma also costs like 8 mana

[rigid scarab]

And the whole deck is made to ramp him out as quickly as humanly possible

[golden plover]

He's 7 mana

Yeah, Koma is not a threat lmao

[gritty nest]

I tried my friends leviathan/sea serpent/etc. deck because I had nothing fair enough for them

I forgot the name of the commander but you reveal the top card of your deck and if it’s one of those creature types you put it on the battlefield

I hit Koma off that ability

At the time I only had enough lands to have my commander, resolve it’s ability, and have Koma, I missed over 6 land drops that game lol

[glad peak]

Welp did you win?

[gritty nest]

After I made 7 copies of Koma and used whelming wave when I finally started getting mana, yes

I wasn’t doing anything while one was about to go infinite with zombies lol

[glad peak]

Looks like that deck’s no longer fair enough for your friend

[gritty nest]

Well wasn’t doing anything until I got hard targeted and finally got mana

No no that deck was my friends deck

All the stuff I brought I know was gonna blow them out of the water

So I borrowed their deck

[glad peak]

The amount of decks my friends banned me from while borrowing from them is ridiculous

[gritty nest]

Lmfao

I won’t lie I expect Nadu to hit that list for me

[lusty trench]

My friend has a thing where whenever he borrows a deck, he gets the nuts

[gritty nest]

I have no win cons other than go wide or deck myself out atm

[lusty trench]

His own decks? Usually mid hands, other people's decks? The nuts, every time

[golden plover]

I mean just throw a Thoracle in there

[gritty nest]

Happens

[glad peak]

I almost always just borrow decks since my friend has a ton of decks and sometimes gets the nuts

[gritty nest]

I was gonna throw lab maniac and haste enablers at minimum

[glad peak]

But whenever I do and pop off, I get banned from that deck

[gritty nest]

Bruh

How many decks have you been banned from now?

[glad peak]

Uh

Including decks they pulled apart?

[gritty nest]

Let’s go with currently still together

[sudden lava]

Jesakai legendary reveal today probably

[glad peak]

Still together, probably 9?

[gritty nest]

A Mardu legendary dude got revealed

[gritty nest]

Worth

[glad peak]

Pulled apart, maybe triple that

[golden plover]

Oh yeah, Nadu Hammer Time lists are popping off

Time for Puresteel to pay for the bird's crimes

[rigid scarab]

Within the social contract of casual edh he sure is

In casual tables either everyone gets stomped by Koma, the Koma player puts on shades, goes "Play more removal", and leaves

Or the Koma player gets stopped every time it's cast and the Koma player feels like he didn't get to play

[golden plover]

It honestly is a "play more removal" moment tho

He's a 7 mana big body

If you can't answer him, that's on you

I can at least sorta get Voja, since Ward 3 is kinda taxing

[gritty nest]

I try to run at minimum the staple removal for that color (swords/path for white, beast within, etc.)

[golden plover]

But realistically, just hold removal for both

[gritty nest]

Add more removal depending on deck space and colors

[golden plover]

There's not a single color that doesn't have the ability to run at least like 6 removal spells

[rigid scarab]

Often the 7 mana guy is coming in around turn 4

It's simic after all

[gritty nest]

I only know of the white removal spells mainly

And the like dime a dozen sorcery speed green ones

[golden plover]

Often removal spells cost 1-3

[rigid scarab]

But often I hear the players saying 'play more removal' are the ones who bring obviously way too strong decks for the pod

There are also instances where players just

Didn't draw the removal

That can happen

[gritty nest]

True

[golden plover]

I'm aware

[rigid scarab]

It's like getting manascrewed once so you add 5 more lands to your deck

[golden plover]

But also, you can still answer things

[rigid scarab]

If you're not answering Koma specifically I feel like your answers are pretty superfluous

[golden plover]

If 3 players don't have any way to deal with Koma, hate to break it to you, but that's on y'all

[gritty nest]

For the mana thing I can’t say much about it, I just follow the ideology of “start with 40 lands, cut 1 for every 2 rocks I add”

[rigid scarab]

Or if the players do have an answer to Koma, but the deck built all around ramping and protecting Koma has one of their very many counterspells

Often removing Koma is gonna take 2 removal spells

[gritty nest]

Me hitting Koma with an Oubliette

[golden plover]

Just [[Out of Time]] it lmao

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/23/out-of-time

Out of Time <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Enchantment
When Out of Time enters the battlefield, untap all creatures, then those creatures phase out until Out of Time leaves the battlefield. Put a time counter on Out of Time for each creature that phased out this way.
Vanishing (At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from this enchantment. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.)

[gritty nest]

Seriously though

Idk how many removal spells you guys like to run

But I feel like 6 is the absolute bare minimum

I’d prefer closer to 8-10

[rigid scarab]

It very much depends on the deck you want to be playing

[golden plover]

Yeah, 6 is the bare minimum

Even if you're playing like Boros

I run minimum 10ish usually

[gritty nest]

Fair

What about board wipes?

[rigid scarab]

I think we do need to recognise that a lot of people in the EDH bubble see it more as a get together with friends than a game you play to win

[gritty nest]

I was thinking 1-2 board wipes as well

[golden plover]

I count Board Wipes are removal

[gritty nest]

I get that, 100%. But please don’t complain when the deck that normally runs like molasses in winter pops off once in a blue moon

Not saying you specifically

But I’ve seen that happen

[granite badge]

I see going to yugioh locals the same way - doesn't mean I won't optimise decks in the enjoyment of fun, its not a mutual inexclusive thing

[rigid scarab]

Like if a Nadu player walks in and pubstomps precons

And says "You guys need to play removal"

Damn

Bro really thought he did something

[gritty nest]

Reminds me of my friend who pub stomps new players that are learning the game

But then got turbo salty and scooped when his turn 1 sol ring got hit with a pact of negation

[golden plover]

There's a big difference between pubstomping precons and established players getting mad because they don't run good decks

[gritty nest]

(The pact player lost the game also)

[rigid scarab]

Pact turn 1 Sol ring

Respect

[granite badge]

this

[golden plover]

If I pull out Cedh Elsha and wipe the floor with precons that's on me

[rigid scarab]

I mean you can be an established player while not wanting to run "good" decks

[golden plover]

But if y'all have all been playing for a while and no one can answer Koma, that's on y'all

[rigid scarab]

Brian Kibler plays suboptimal EDH a ton

[gritty nest]

I get both sides to an extent, not fully because I stopped caring about my local scene

[rigid scarab]

Have you SEEN his ur dragon list

[gritty nest]

People would downplay their deck

[golden plover]

You don't need to bring every deck to cedh level

[gritty nest]

Someone said they had a barely precon level deck but dropped nearly $400 in paper on the table, and pub stomped

He only considers it modified if the land base is changed

[golden plover]

But like, you can cheaply upgrade a precon to be viable

[gritty nest]

^

And you don’t need to spend a fortune

[rigid scarab]

I mean define viable

[golden plover]

Just running removal, creatures that don't suck, having an actual game plan, cheap land upgrades

[rigid scarab]

You certainly can

[gritty nest]

Actually does something after turn 5 other than lands commander and like 2 incoherent creatures

[golden plover]

Obviously the best ones are gonna cost a lot, but it's not impossible to play a decent deck for cheap

[rigid scarab]

But it doesn't mean you have to as long as you understand you're going to be playing a deck generally weaker in most pods

It's all about your attitude when it comes to casual EDH

Any game really

[golden plover]

Yeah but you can't be aware you're playing a weaker deck and then also complain you're playing a weaker deck

Which is what this sounds like to me

[lusty trench]

If you want a cheap deck that wins, your girl zada is always there

[gritty nest]

Just build feather

[rigid scarab]

I think that's a matter of people misinterpreting a deck being too strong instead of them just getting a lucky start

Established decks can most certainly lose to Koma

I had a guy the other day ask me if Voja was cedh

[gritty nest]

I wouldn’t think so?

[rigid scarab]

And no it isn't

[gritty nest]

But I also don’t play cEDH

[rigid scarab]

But it's very strong in casual

And commanders like those exist

Ur Dragon, Koma, Chulane, etc

[gritty nest]

Also the whole lucky start thing, I’ve seen people get a lucky pop off then get hated off the table every game after just because their deck popped off one time on turn 7

[rigid scarab]

Shoutout to "My deck has NEVER done this before"

Tucks their 9 tutors in their pocket

[gritty nest]

Bruh

[lusty trench]

Chulane is on another level compared to those two

[rigid scarab]

I count washed cedh commanders as extremely strong casual commanders

[lusty trench]

If you build chulane you are inviting the table to kick you in the nuts with all their removal it's just fair game

[gritty nest]

I had this one person who vehemently is against infinites. Built 5c Kavu tribal using Jared Carthalion

[rigid scarab]

Also to be clear

[gritty nest]

Ran a Kavu that says “ETB bounce something”, morophon and impact tremors

[rigid scarab]

I absolutely understand that casual players can sometimes get extremely salty over just normal game progression

Because it involved their gameplan being stopped

That's a massive reason why cEDH is getting more popular

[gritty nest]

This lol

[rigid scarab]

Because it's being advertised as "EDH without the salt"

[gritty nest]

Because when you’re playing to win and you get salty

That’s on you

Not the other player for playing against your rule 0 you never discussed

(Again not saying you specifically, but I’ve seen this happen too many times)

[rigid scarab]

Only times I'm getting salty in casual edh is when someone pulls a dick move in order to get a dub

The big two for me are lying about game information and breaking deals when it becomes inconvenient for them

[lusty trench]

Man I do want to build Jenson carthalion

He's so pretty

[rigid scarab]

Honestly lying in general

[lusty trench]

a[[Jenson carthalion]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/3/jenson-carthalion-druid-exile

Jenson Carthalion, Druid Exile <:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Human Druid
Whenever you cast a multicolored spell, scry 1. If that spell was all colors, create a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying and vigilance.
, : Add .
He was born with the crescent-moon Mark of the Elder Druid, tying his fate to the druids of the Juniper Order.
2/2

[rigid scarab]

Oh I thought you meant Jarad

[[Jarad Carthalion]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/50/jared-carthalion

Jared Carthalion <:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920><:manar:292901508796645397><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Planeswalker — Jared
+1: Create a 3/3 Kavu creature token with trample that's all colors.
−3: Choose up to two target creatures. For each of them, put a number of +1/+1 counters on it equal to the number of colors it is.
−6: Return target multicolored card from your graveyard to your hand. If that card was all colors, draw a card and create two Treasure tokens.
Jared Carthalion can be your commander.
Loyalty: 5

[rigid scarab]

I mean

[lusty trench]

Nah Jenson is prettier

[rigid scarab]

He also looks kinda

If he's your type

[lusty trench]

Feminine men are very much my thing yes

[golden plover]

Jenson is honestly better than Jared ngl

Comes down earlier and can help fixing

[gritty nest]

Why not both?

[golden plover]

I mean, you can run both

But from the command zone, Jenson is better

[gritty nest]

Oh I was more meaning which one looks better

[golden plover]

Oh I think Jared is hotter lmao

But he's also worse

[gritty nest]

Lmao fair

[trail anvil]

these certainly are 5c commanders in the game

[gritty nest]

I just realized I didn’t finish the Kavu story. You guys care if I finish it?

[sudden lava]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1125148508920479744/1252655515016888371/IMG_7272.jpg?ex=667301db&is=6671b05b&hm=976cfb80d66180f311b70f933927da43187fb07914ddc44c2332f7f7c2e5ccdc&=&format=webp&width=553&height=544

[gritty nest]

I saw that, like the ability tbh

They’re reprinting the swords of x and y it seems as well

[sudden lava]

yup

[gritty nest]

Do we have all 10 color based swords?

[sudden lava]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uicFvwDDlBQ&ab_channel=Magic%3ATheGathering

2 minutes

[lusty trench]

Ayo they kinda fire

I love shadowspear

[sudden lava]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1125148508920479744/1252661268385497139/IMG_9847.png?ex=66730737&is=6671b5b7&hm=d0a0b4f5f1349d985e857812df8ad21641cb094e9d23ef22c60eb1f89ea01d90&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1440&height=536

[gritty nest]

I can grab more of the spoilers real quick in another server I’m in

[sudden lava]

Grixis Pirate for Kenway

[gritty nest]

Yggdrasil, Renewal Engine - 3
Legendary Artifact (Mythic)
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile all creature cards from your graveyard.
T: Exile the top three cards of your library
4, T: Put a creature card exiled by ~ onto the battlefield under your control. It gains haste until the end of the turn. Activate only as a sorcery

[sudden lava]

vehicle matters sounds funny

the countdown

[gritty nest]

I can’t find it but there is a cleopatra card

[golden plover]

[[Cleopatra]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/acr/52/cleopatra-exiled-pharaoh

Cleopatra, Exiled Pharaoh <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manab:292901508872273920><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Human Noble
Allies — At the beginning of your end step, put a +1/+1 counter on each of up to two other target legendary creatures.
Betrayal — Whenever a legendary creature with counters on it dies, draw a card for each counter on it. You lose 2 life.
"Know thy enemies as thy kin."
2/4

[golden plover]

She's already been revealed