A 7 is anything from a precon to a low cedh level deck
#Magic the Gathering
sleek ferry
sleek ferry
Still waiting for this server to play on spelltable together
sudden lava
Alright so tomorrow will be my first time going to MTG locals, not today
rigid scarab
Still waiting for this server to play on spelltable together
Bet
trail anvil
Still waiting for this server to play on spelltable together
I'm down if you are
trail anvil
what format
I'm gonna guess commander
sudden lava
Are the doctor who cards legal?
sudden lava
in legacy, vintage, commander, and oathbreaker
rich bronze
Wait crossovers are legal in commander?
sudden lava
the crossover was made for commander
rich bronze
Ohh
sudden lava
especially made for commander with planechase added on
rich bronze
What's an intro pack
sudden lava
60 card precon deck
rich bronze
For standard?
sudden lava
yeah
sudden lava
Are those also 60?
commander uses 100 card decks
sudden lava
yup 100 card singleton (basics and special cases like Relentless rats can be used in multiples)
with 1 (or 2 in some cases) cards being your commander which dictates what color(s) you can run in your deck
for example
Alistair lets you use green, white, blue
since those color pips appear in his cost or rule text
when multi commanders (mechanics like doctor's companion) your deck can include the colors listed on both. So 13th+ Yasmin Khan can run blue, red, and green
rigid scarab
If your first thought is 'holy shit how is this the most popular format'
A large number of this format's players have barely touched 1v1 Magic (the main formats)
They treat it more as a casual tabletop experience
rigid scarab
how much do you want to bet that op only plays green and/or red
One money point
stark skiff
Got my dockside and mana crypt off my friend
now hand them over
lusty trench
now hand them over
Make me 
glad peak
Wanna flip for them? Heads I get them, tails you hand them over
rich bronze
A large number of this format's players have barely touched 1v1 Magic (the main ...
Which is fun
It seems fun
Is 1v1 actually expensive?
lusty trench
Depends on the format but it's generally not too bad
glad peak
1v1 is also subsidized by having decent to good prize support even with budget decks
Flashbacks to 3-1 record mono red burn for 2 weeks becoming $150 
rigid scarab
Is 1v1 actually expensive?
Standard, Pioneer and Pauper for budget options
Modern and Legacy for expensive ones
rigid scarab
Pauper is common charity
Everything that's been printed at common rarity
Pioneer is every core set released from Return to Ravnica onward
Modern is every core set (and every set WOTC decides is modern legal) released from Eigth Edition onward
hidden ermine
Standard being cheap depends a lot on the deck you wanna play
lusty trench
Kid named sheoldred
golden plover
Isn't black like super prevalent in standard too?
Last I checked pretty much every standard deck was like $400+
And every modern deck was like $2k
Normal formats
fallow citrus
hmmmmmm
that modenr pricing is very cynical
it is slightly more expensive now but for the best decks from the ground up it's about $1k highest according to goldfish
but obviously this doesn't account for using trade groups, buying things lower priced etc
also contains basically all the staples you'll probably be playng in a lot of decks
hidden ermine
Yeah modern is more 1k
golden plover
I guess it went down a little from the last time I checked, which is good
Still pretty expensive tho
twilit canyon
idt modern is ever 2k unless ur playing money pile decks
average modern deck would be at most 1k
u can get a lot of them for 800 or less
golden plover
Last time I checked was yawgmoth, Temur piles, esper piles, and stuff before reprints of some of the cards
twilit canyon
i cant think of temur piles ever being meta
golden plover
Although iirc scam was like $1600ish
twilit canyon
temur rhinos is good
golden plover
Temur Rhinos was the deck I guess
twilit canyon
but not a pile of temur cards
sudden lava
looks like Im not going to locals today 
fallow citrus
yeah scam seems to be the most expensive "normal" deck rn but like considering this is the "build from scratch" price I don't think it's horrendous
ygo has a p bad barrier to top tier right now too
fallow citrus
incredibly rare spike arena alert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuGhGoEBrY0
glad peak
Idk I thought the general consensus was that modern moves slow enough (yes even with modern horizons) that if you choose wisely then you can build piece by piece
So starting with a cheap (relative) deck like prowess (mono or ur) and doing well at your lgs (if they have prizing) will rapidly get you to any deck you want
glad peak
So it won’t ever really be the 1k you see on the tin since you’ll be financing it (hopefully) with your winnings
rich bronze
I’m really enjoying playing creativity right now
sleek ferry
merry owl
last glen
leisurely walking to my PC to cash in one of the non-Sneak Squad codes
last glen
cashed in the Critter Corps code
big thanks again
copper pecan
i got the one on the bottom right
zinc shard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w33fveDqXgo
Game 2 is the funniest thing ive seen in a long time
lusty trench
Got some double sleeves for my don Andres deck, honestly at this point I'm tempted just to turn it into Silas rograkh
stark skiff
Got some double sleeves for my don Andres deck, honestly at this point I'm tempt...
how you liking it? ive been eyeing making a Don deck too
lusty trench
It's a lot of fun mainly because you're basically playing your opponents decks
Main issue is people don't like it when they see their "best" cards working for you
lusty trench
What a way to start the year
rigid scarab
Looks sensible enough
lusty trench
My friend had their John Avon secret lair cancelled due to not having enough stock in
golden plover
What a way to start the year
Depending on how this is done this is either really good or really bad
They did that for the anniversary SL and it got bought by bots immediately
I don't think there's any other times they tried it tho
I guess you could count the Mythic Editions (which ended up giving out rare sheets every time because the site got fucked up) and From the Vaults (which ended up either dying in stores or being impossible to find)
rigid scarab
https://vxtwitter.com/GavinVerhey/status/1742092442755621319?s=20
Delve
golden plover
It'll depend on the lair, but I can't see this being a good idea for any lair worth remotely decent value
glad peak
Nice, I should look into this
twilit canyon
murktide and rhinos are doing very well i did a great job picking up rhinos a while back and truly learning the deck
copper pecan
golden packs unless you're good at draft
rigid scarab
Like Im struggling to see what good golden packs would be
If majority of the time you're gonna get cards that are like
copper pecan
more wildcards
rigid scarab
Good in HBrawl at best
copper pecan
gold packs count towards the wildcard wheel thing
last glen
If you want wildcards, isn't it better to buy more of the cheaper packs?
Or do golden packs give more wildcards?
rigid scarab
MTGA isn't Hearthstone
rigid scarab
If you want wildcards, isn't it better to buy more of the cheaper packs?
The cheapest pack is 1000g
sudden lava
MTGA isn't Hearthstone
I thought I clicked hearthstone chat for whatever reason 
sorry about that
zinc shard
man I regret not buying the Explorer Anthology with Deathrite Shaman in it
4 Rare WCs i gotta spend
lusty trench
I also wouldn’t mind a where are they now set for characters that have completed their arcs they don’t plan on using again at least for a while
golden plover
Wasn't that supposed to be aftermath
twilit canyon
it was supposed to
copper pecan
https://youtu.be/QQHBjE-9WuY
a lot of super enfranchised players really overestimate the amount of demand for universes within versions of crossover cards
a lot of the people who want them don't actually even want the cards, they just want the option to exist
and unfortunately that doesn't sell packs
so i seriously doubt that they're gonna do a whole product dedicated to this kind of thing
lusty trench
I'm fine with them just reprinting the cards that see play
Like orcish bowmasters, one ring... I think the tiefling from the DND movie secret lair is like £30 rn
Just ones people either need to play or ones that got dummy expensive
golden plover
I mean they'd sorta have to print a decent bit just in case one shoots up in play
twilit canyon
bowmasters has no ties to the lord of the rings universe
that card can be reprinted for whatever reprint set they want
orcs exist in magic
armies had already existed in magic
if it was printed outside of lotr no one would have even known it was a lotr card
the one ring is tied to lotr of course but also not a card ppl would want an in-universe version of
simply too iconic
golden plover
A demand for a in-universe print would exist
golden plover
Yeah but if we ever get another modern masters or something, it's a lot easier to print "Mishra's Crooked Ring" than "The One Ring"
That's the other thing with these
When they have a Rick/One Ring/Bowmasters situation, they need in-universe prints
golden plover
So that they can be reprinted without going through licensing
twilit canyon
and im sure wotc would be perfectly happy to get another licensing for lotr and reprint it then
the card is incredibly iconic and infamous now
golden plover
It takes a lot longer than just using their internal print
Having one they can print in any set without having to ask someone else is an upside
twilit canyon
yeah and they arent particularly reprint happy with high value chase cards anyways
why would they reprint the one ring into something they could reprint easily when they dont want to reprint it?
golden plover
Which is kinda also an issue, but having those prints makes it a lot easier
twilit canyon
sure though it makes no sense to reprint ring
and obm is a generic enough name to just reprint whenever they want
copper pecan
they probably will reprint the ring eventually but like
they aren't going to do an entire product specifically for this type of reprint
there are individual ub cards that there is demand for but nowhere near enough to justify a set entirely for this
if they want to do reprints of ub cards they can just do that in regular sets using the same method as the universes within list cards
golden plover
Wait they promised a universes within for every SL
How the fuck is that gonna work for [[Rose Noble]]
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Human
Ward 
Whenever you cast a Doctor spell or creature spell with doctor's companion, draw a card.
Doctor's companion (You can have two commanders if the other is the Doctor.)
The daughter of a time traveler, ready for adventures of her own.
2/3
golden plover
I figure they'll just go "lmao we're not gonna do that"
last glen
They can make a mechanically identical keyword
golden plover
But it has to work with the doctors that already exist
copper pecan
i'd imagine they'd probably also errata time lords to be something else
doctor's companion is vague enough that they could probably get away with just changing the reminder text
last glen
They can just give Time Lord the Umi treatment, ye
copper pecan
just change doctor's companion's reminder text to "you can have two commanders if the other is a scrimblo doctor with no other subtypes"
lusty trench
The thing that gets me about rose noble is she's like... Not even a companion
Like why does Wilfred not get to be a companion if she does
Or Rory
copper pecan
mechanical reasons, probably
lusty trench
Legit it could've been fixed if they made it a Donna and rose card instead of just rose
But ig they wanted her to have her own card
barren cairn
i also pulled a alt art new ghalta
but man it was dissapointing
because the guy next to me pulled roaming throne which is roaming throne
trail anvil
man anim pakal has to be the best aggro commander in hbrawl rn
I see it everywhere and after playing it I really see why, if she sticks you can just win the game off her alone
golden plover
Ai background promos on twitter, damn
Guess this is what happens when you lay off a bunch of staff
Oh lmao they didn't even get the focal lands right
Two of them are guildgates
And that's just a lie
subtle sierra
The lamps and the gauge are dead giveaways
golden plover
Yeah the gauge has the AI unfinished numbers on it
The bookshelves also have the curvy books that aren't quite anything
And the wires on the back of the lamp are fucky
No clue why they said that it was made by humans then
Just own up and go "one of our artists used AI to finish the background"
But I can't get over the fact that the post is about shocklands and 2 of the cards are guildgates lmao
sudden lava
The thing that gets me about rose noble is she's like... Not even a companion
So far, Rose Noble still is showing up in Plus Season 1
and Rory gets searched by Amy Pond anyways (Plus he's not mono colored) so he has companion at home. They made him 2 color so you can run him and Amy as your commanders on their own
golden plover
https://fxtwitter.com/wizards_magic/status/1743047445410468242
Oh shit apparently David Rapoza quit over this
He wasn't one of the most notable artists, but he's been working with them for a long time and he's got a nice style
He did [[Green Sun's Zenith]] notably
lost widgetBOT
lusty trench
I hope more follow suit
It's not like wotc hasn't done this before so it's not like they can go "tee-hee didn't know it was bad will never do it again"
golden plover
They outright said they wouldn't use AI art two weeks ago
hidden ermine
I think rather than full AI it might have involved AI at some step?
golden plover
Well I guess technically they said "we won't use AI art as the final project on a card"
hidden ermine
The gauge has weird artifacts but it also has the numbers right and in right intervals
golden plover
So this is a loophole
I assume it was touched up in some way and not fully ai yeah
But it's still VERY ai
And they couldn't even check to see that it has the right card series on it
And they lied and said AI wasn't used
That's the worst part
hidden ermine
Do we know for sure its supposed to be just the shocklands?
golden plover
The post says "it's shocking"
0 reason 2 of them would be guildgates
Like I guess technically there's nothing saying they couldn't be guildgates
But the caption doesn't make sense if they are
twilit canyon
where is the source david rapoza quit over this?
golden plover
He replied to the post and on his own Twitter
twilit canyon
annoyingly cant see it cus i dont have a twitter account
twilit canyon
ai was def used in a step in the process
twilit canyon
yea thats what i said
golden plover
But it's 100% at least partially ai
So the "the style being different but this art was created by humans" is false
twilit canyon
feels like amateur work
golden plover
You'd think an artist would notice the lighting being off on the windows and the gauge at least and fix those
But they didn't even put the right land cycle
So I assume no one looked over it
twilit canyon
what laying off 1200 people before the holidays does to a company
ik magic as a game will be fine but i hope this kills dnd
i need to spread more pf2e propaganda
golden plover
Unfortunately both are too big to take any notable dent from stuff like this
Hey on the bright side, it's a new year so far this is the worst thing Wotc has done this year
lusty trench
Eh I'd say the secret lair thing is worse but this is still bad
twilit canyon
i do wanna give them the benefit of doubt in a sense. i know plenty of artists who were harassed for doing art that ai gets trained on.
but this one is too blatant
golden plover
Eh I'd say the secret lair thing is worse but this is still bad
Oh right that was this year
Nevermind it's second worst lmao
golden plover
Oh Jason Rainville is not accepting any new work from wotc either
That's a big one
dense berry
so remember when i said it was corpo speak for "we're totally gonna do it" and that you got corpo speaked? you got corpo speaked.
copper pecan
rigid scarab
He's done
Ok but why basically declare your resignation via twitter
Is this just a freelance artist thing
golden plover
Ok but why basically declare your resignation via twitter
He said he emailed them to never send him another request in the tweet
But it's probably because they're freelance, yeah
copper pecan
why publicly burn bridges like this without even waiting for them to put out an official statement
rigid scarab
It just paints them as majorly unprofessional
golden plover
why publicly burn bridges like this without even waiting for them to put out an ...
Because they did put out a statement
And they lied in it
copper pecan
a tweet isn't a statement
golden plover
It's basically the same thing most of the time
They just didn't make one on their website
copper pecan
some intern who runs the twitter account isn't making policy decisions
golden plover
He did explicitly mention that 2 weeks ago they put out the official statement about so that contradicts this
rigid scarab
It's like if you accept a job application exclusively through a public twitter thread
copper pecan
if this whole thing somehow turns out to be a misunderstanding then he will have burned this bridge for basically no reason
golden plover
There's 0 chance it's a misunderstanding tho
It's literally got ai artifacts all throughout
copper pecan
i'm not saying it's not ai, i'm saying that it's possible that the person who made this didn't get the memo that they weren't supposed to use ai
golden plover
Yeah but they still shouldn't have tweeted "it's not AI, it was made by a person"
That's explicitly the part that he said made him quit
copper pecan
hell, it could be that the person who generated it lied and said they made it
golden plover
He said in his own thread that if they were open about it, he'd be annoyed but wouldn't care
copper pecan
i don't particularly care why he's quitting, i just think it's really silly to quit over twitter and then publicly post about it
also i've seen someone say that the artifacting could be from the image being run through an upscaler but idk how likely that is
golden plover
Look at the tubes and the window
That's 100% ai
Oh and the valve on the desk
Jason quit too over it
Or at least went on hiatus
Jason seems like a good guy who's very mad about this
twilit canyon
i don't particularly care why he's quitting, i just think it's really silly to q...
right like if this was a big misunderstanding then burning bridges this way is one of the dumbest things one can do
copper pecan
if this turns out to be a misunderstanding they probably still won't hire this dude again after this
jason's response is much more reasonable though
twilit canyon
indeed
trail anvil
either way I feel like wizards definitely could've been way more careful, even if it was an understanding
it's super bad optics to post this after promising not to use ai
twilit canyon
yeah but thats what laying off 1200 ppl before christmas does to a company
trail anvil
yeah I guess so lmao
dense berry
that post about pledging to not use AI was less than a month ago
which means its fresh in the minds of the players and artists rn
they made a statement and this is the timeframe most people were expecting to see how they would back up those statements
they backed themselves into a corner. from the get go they could have said something like "we should be inclusive to technologically advanced art tools"
its actually a sentiment i agree with
but since they rejected AI art their only options were
A: Admit they literally goofed less than a month into their pledge and apologize
B: Do what they did which is to gaslight and lie and hope everyone forgets about it
twilit canyon
theres no reason to assume they are gaslighting and lying atm. from what we know, the intern running the twitter account has no idea + the artist that they got to make the art pieces for the backgrounds has been lying to them too
have they goofed? yes. how they respond to this once things have been cleared up will say the rest though
sleek ferry
We live in an era where quitting your job over Twitter is seen as a “power move” and not what it really is; clout chasing.
rigid scarab
Am I the only guy here who thinks the AI promo art thing is insanely overblown
Like it wasn't John WOTC who made the promo art background
It was the coveted 'some guy' they hired who decided to be lazy and send it in
The other coveted 'some guy' gave it the thumbs up to send it to the social media manager
fallow citrus
like everything in this channel it's overblown, yes
rigid scarab
People calling this the silver bullet that will take down WOTC is insane
copper pecan
theres no reason to assume they are gaslighting and lying atm. from what we know...
yeah i think the most likely scenerio is that whoever they got to do the promo image just lied to them
dense berry
Like it wasn't John WOTC who made the promo art background
there was a whole chain of 'some guys' that all to some extent work for wotc and all of them messed up bad here. that chain of corporate delegations doesnt mean wotc isnt responsible for this; the actual extrapolation should be that the art direction and production quality of the game has gone down to such a crazy extent that they couldnt even stick to their official statement about AI for a whole month
delegation to reduce liability is such a horseshit concept this is literally how clothing and shoe companies get away with slave labor in 2024 as the industry norm "oh we hate slavery here at Vans, we dont support it at all its just we consistently go to this hiring manager guy who goes to a chinese business consultant who recommends work agencies and those agencies outsource to local labor and production plants and oops now there are slaves making our shoes and we're just as upset as you are but we like the profits so we're gonna continue to go to that hiring manager and hope that something is done about that slave labor eventually"
golden plover
The deleted the "this art was made by a human" tweet
Def shows that they were lying in it and are gonna make an "oopsie we didn't catch the thing and just said that so people wouldn't be mad" tweet
trail anvil
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/190y6on/ah_there_it_is/ they admitted they made a mistake in another tweet chain
as for whether it was an actual "this was a mistake" or "oops we got caught" is up to your interpretation
copper pecan
if it was "oops we got caught" they probably just wouldn't have said anything
lusty trench
Nah this is “we got caught” as they specifically note the loophole that was used to make these marketing pieces, not counting them as “final magic products” and rewording their statement to include it going forward
At least imo
copper pecan
apollogizing for it draws attention to it, which they'd have no reason to do if they were trying to just sweep it under the rug
lusty trench
Iirc they apologised for the dnd ai situation too
fallow citrus
rhinos seems to be really taking off now
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/s/FaCs0XXDTu
zinc shard
Well, we made a mistake earlier when we said that a marketing image we posted was not created using AI. Read on for more.
As you, our diligent community pointed out, it looks like some AI components that are now popping up in industry standard tools like Photoshop crept into our marketing creative, even if a human did the work to create the overall image.
While the art came from a vendor, it's on us to make sure that we are living up to our promise to support the amazing human ingenuity that makes magic great.
We already made clear that we require artists, writers and creatives contributing to the Magic TCG to refrain from using AI generative tools to create final Magic products.
Now we're evaluating how we work with vendors on creative beyond our products - like these marketing images - to make sure that we are living up to those values.
twilit canyon
super reasonable response from wotc
and this is what p much every artist is afraid of
some artist just peddles ai art as regular art
copper pecan
rhinos seems to be really taking off now
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/s/...
for a second i thought the age of siege rhino had returned
fallow citrus
no siege rhinos, just rhinos in can
fallow citrus
hmmm I can kind of see murktide
guess izzet colours are just built different though
twilit canyon
murktide shows up a lot rn though rhinos are the clear favorite
fallow citrus
yeah, I suppose it could also be a case of best doesn't mean most represented
trail anvil
some artist just peddles ai art as regular art
I think this is gonna happen more and more often nowadays, especially with stock image websites unfortunately
which really makes me lean towards mistake
dense berry
im inclined to believe mistake as well however i can't ignore that these mistakes have multiplied in frequency well over 10x in the past couple years
fallow citrus
yeah rhinos are probably the best, still not sure about how high up yawg is
I know it's very well represented that's for sure
twilit canyon
im inclined to believe mistake as well however i can't ignore that these mistake...
we are bound to see a lot more mistakes rn due to them laying off 1200 people
trail anvil
yep
copper pecan
only like 10 of the people who got layed off worked at wotc
twilit canyon
it was at least 20 wotc employees and their subsidiaries
ie ppl who work on the mtga dev team and mtgo coding base even if outsourced
involves marketing teams too
copper pecan
oh okay
sudden lava
almost reveal time for fallout
dense berry
we are bound to see a lot more mistakes rn due to them laying off 1200 people
im sure that 1200 played a part in this particular blunder but i can immediately think of a handful of incidents of art theft and other production blunders from the past few years
twilit canyon
oh for sure it was already a bad situation
dense berry
its already increased in rate over 5 years compared to the 25 before it
dramatically
twilit canyon
its only getting worse
twilit canyon
yup
fallow citrus
trail anvil
poison each time you sacrifice a clue sounds really cool both lorewise and mechanics wise
the green sorcery you can run any amount of is probably some kind of dragon's approach, but I'm wondering what they're gonna make the primary effect
trail anvil
MOLE GOD
I'm digging this trend of atypical god creatures, especially after the elder fungus
fallow citrus
poison each time you sacrifice a clue sounds really cool both lorewise and mecha...
kind of hope it's a common cause I feel like you could make something funny in pauper
considering we have 8 thraben inspectors now
and you can play stuff like hard evidence to make more
sudden lava
I'm digging this trend of atypical god creatures, especially after the elder fun...
I hope one day we get a capybara god
and more capybaras in general
trail anvil
kind of hope it's a common cause I feel like you could make something funny in p...
that does sound funny
that is a lot of mana
fallow citrus
simply have the mana 😔
but the idea of eventually cracking enough clues to solve the case is a cool fantasy to have for this set
copper pecan
okay so here's my theory as to who the culprit of the murder is
i think it's ||jace||
||the locked room mystery could be solved by the culprit just planeswalking out of the room, and the first chapter of the story points out that planeswalking can be done at basically any time||
||the march of the machine story and the mom reprint of teysa's flavor text said that teysa had an informant who was somehow able to warn her about the invasion ahead of time||
||"whenever you sacrifice a clue, your opponent gets 2 poison counters" sounds like the kind of effect phyrexian jace would have||
||also kaya was specifically angsting over what happened to jace in the first chapter of the story||
fallow citrus
twilit canyon
draft token in the shop today
zinc shard
waxen timber
Green gang rise up
zinc shard
golden plover
Teysa dying didn't rule out her getting a card
Also teysa now has 4 cards
Is she tied with Thalia for most printings now?
Since 2 of her cards have alt arts
Oh wait the Thalia SL
Teysa has 8 unique printings now
Thalia has 15
Jesus
waxen timber
Dang. They got Teysa looking Italian
copper pecan
it's be pretty weird if teysa didn't get a card given how important she is to the plot of the set
also if teysa doesn't have a death trigger i will eat a shoe
golden plover
I kinda hope all the victims have death triggers
Ohh what if they're all "When CARDNAME dies, make a clue token"
golden plover
Hopefully it's every basic in the deck this time
Coin flip came with 1 island or mountain as the bonus card
Dunno what angels did
fallow citrus
yeah I wouldn't expect it
zinc shard
oh are they doing another Secret Lair deck?
golden plover
Yeah I figure it's probably only gonna be 1 total. 1 of each at best
I'd be tempted to pick the deck up if I can get it in all non-foil and they actually match the full art lands for once
sudden lava
oh are they doing another Secret Lair deck?
yeah, cats and dogs
zinc shard
nice
waxen timber
Been playing Rakdos burn in Timeless and have really been enjoying it
I haven't caught a brainstorm with Bowmasters yet but, I am looking forward to when I get my free bolt
twilit canyon
yo soul of windgrace might actually be hard meta
and also gates got a huge buff in thran portal as did all alchemy 2c decks
trail anvil
oh shit this is a nice buff to him a a commander too lol
excavation explosion looks huge for rakdos/izzet artifact ramp too? that buff is nuts
historic pauper is the next mwm let's goooo
twilit canyon
its nothing crazy
but its a fine buff
nael avizoa aeronaut is also a nutty good card but im not sure it has a real home
fallow citrus
oh wow that windgrace buff is real nice
the radha's firebrand one feels like it should have been what was on the card originally
trail anvil
is there any way to search out the dominaria dual type lands in alchemy?
fallow citrus
only thing i can think of are the bed fetchlands from new capenna
like [[broker's hideout]]
lost widgetBOT
fallow citrus
oh this says basic nevermind
twilit canyon
they rotated
alchemy rotates like how standard used to
however there are still a lot of ways to get lands into play
fallow citrus
ohh sure
twilit canyon
[[invasion of zendikar]]
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Battle — Siege
(As a Siege enters, choose an opponent to protect it. You and others can attack it. When it's defeated, exile it, then cast it transformed.)
When Invasion of Zendikar enters the battlefield, search your library for up to two basic land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
Defense: 3
Awakened Skyclave
Creature — Elemental
Vigilance, haste
As long as Awakened Skyclave is on the battlefield, it's a land in addition to its other types.
: Add one mana of any color.
Nahiri tried to bend Zendikar to Phyrexia's will. In response, the world rose against her.
4/4
twilit canyon
[[herd migration]]
lost widgetBOT
Sorcery
Domain — Create a 3/3 green Beast creature token for each basic land type among lands you control.
, Discard Herd Migration: Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle. You gain 3 life.
fallow citrus
migration doesn't get it right, cause it searches a basic land not a card with a basic land type right?
or am i being dumb
twilit canyon
no theres no way to get basic land types
the only way to get lands in alchemy at a cheap rate is getting basics
fallow citrus
ah sure
copper pecan
what about the ltr landcyclers
twilit canyon
honestly i forgot about them
fallow citrus
rakdos cards are good
glad peak
Chitterspitter + Urabrask's forge is a funny chaos draft win con
zinc shard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6szaKpXedf4
Holy shit this is bad
dense berry
at least this one isn't wotc or hasbro's fault for once
lusty trench
Anyone else find it odd that clues sac to draw but treasures sac to give mana
Clues should sac for mana (building up towards a conclusion), and treasures should draw (finding a new weapon, creature, spell or deed to land etc)
fallow citrus
you can argue it any way and it works
treasures give cards or mana, both are valuable things
clues bring you closer to the conclusion, ie drawing the cards you need or generating mana
both make enough sense for me to not have thought about it
hidden ermine
The basic flavouring is that cards in your hand represent knowledge and clues bring you more knowledge
lusty trench
That's fair guess I didn't think of it that way, I was just confused on why clues would draw you close to your mind running thin of new ideas (library thinning)
hidden ermine
Tbh how the library is flavoured is ... weird
waxen timber
It is kinda weird how you investigate to get clues but, you create blood, treasure, map, etc
Like why what 1 mechanic more complicated?
copper pecan
clues came before all the other ones and they hadn't figured out that they didn't need to tie a keyword to making them
iirc maro has said that in hindsight it was a mistake to have "investigate" be a thing
lusty trench
It's amazing how much artifact tokens exploded innistrad 2 block onward
They certainly realised the advantage of the design space there
glad peak
Coming up: aura tokens that you can sac for cheaper since you need a creature on board
last glen
Use code REPAIR to unlock (almost) every card in MTGO until January 16, 10 AM PST
looks like a 20th anniversary event
<t:1705428000:R>
<t:1705428000:F>
sleek ferry
I tried it
fallow citrus
does it work?
zinc shard
Never give up
fallow citrus
glad peak
Welp that’s a bad sign for modern
(For context, 60 card basics is generally the deck people use to basically boycott a format)
twilit canyon
well they did just give out all access to modo so something is gotta be funnier than 60 basics
copper pecan
so whom do y'all think the killer is
right now i feel like it's gotta be ||vraska and/or ezrim||
||the guy with the cloak in the latest chapter who is obviously jace rules out jace as a suspect||
||the poison not being from ravnica means that a planeswalker is probably somehow involved and the moss thing feels like the kind of thing vraska would do, but that doesn't explain the mind control stuff||
||ezrim has a motive but i don't think he would have access to the mind control powers or off-plane stuff like the poison||
copper pecan
||that would explain the fur on the robes, and the robed people turning into moss||
||i would say that trostani could be the killer since she has psychic powers and could probably do the moss thing, but she hasn't appeared in the story at all so she's probably not the killer||
wait actually it could be ||azor||
||he has mind powers and a motive for doing this||
||the powder could be mycotyrant dust that he got while he was on ixalan||
||this would also explain the fur because he is a sphinx||
zinc shard
cuz no one wants to put in the effort to make it
glad peak
There’s neuron which is kinda close but yeah it’s a shame
lusty trench
1 mana cantrips and a phyrexian alter can make this card do silly things
fallow citrus
we finally broke altar
lusty trench
Finally
trail anvil
an alternative to [[tor wauki the younger]]
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trail anvil
or maybe one goes in the 99 of the other
copper pecan
oh my god sus is a mechanic in the set
lusty trench
Holy shit a somewhat decent Kaya?
Big stinker hours on this one
Why are you a mythic
trail anvil
kaya as always has a cool as hell card design
lusty trench
trail anvil
Big stinker hours on this one
is disguise just like morph?
lusty trench
I got 0 clue
copper pecan
morph but the facedown card gets ward 2
trail anvil
morph with ward? dang
lusty trench
I love paying 5 mana for a 2/2 with ward I then have to spend 4 to flip up to exile 1
Tf does cloak mean
rigid scarab
Cool card design alert
"Massacre Girl, A Girl Who Probably Killed Someone The Other Day"
Also yeesh this is like 5 new mechanics
lusty trench
rigid scarab
What the hell is a Viashino
lusty trench
Case of ransacked lab is Hella value
3 mana cost reducer that when solved is archmage emeritus lite
golden plover
Weird he's only rare this time
But also, both his arts are BAD so good
Especthat showcase art
lusty trench
We know who the killer was and it's lame
golden plover
Who?
trail anvil
this feels like a really weird design for trostani I feel like
lusty trench
||one of the dryads that make up trostani||
trail anvil
it's technically all in selesnya but feels really weird
golden plover
Yeah it's really jarring
trail anvil
like if these effects were on a mardu card that would make more sense to me
golden plover
Especially considering all her other cards were go wide focused
trail anvil
but it goes against their old effects
technically this works with go-wide but
seems more go-tall
golden plover
She's always been about making a lot of buff tokens
Also, it's really weird how many new keywords are in this set
Disguise, Cloak, Suspect, and Case?
lusty trench
Honestly this sets looking weak to me rn but hopefully we get something cool soon
golden plover
Oh and Evidence
Yeah, I'm kinda not sold on this set
Feels like there's too much conflicting stuff going on
Like they had too many ideas and crammed them all in the same set
golden plover
Jesus
That's a pushed Tolsimir
This is THE limited bomb, yeah?
If you see this in your packs, no way you don't just win
copper pecan
?
golden plover
8/7 for 5 with lifelink, trample, and forced bad blocking
It's a lot like Gruff Triplets, but more frontloaded
copper pecan
tolsimir dies to any creature with disguise
copper pecan
forcing a bad trade once isn't game ending
golden plover
In limited, it's really big
And you can probably do it a couple times based on the draft archetypes
Obviously it depends on the removal and other cards, but this is probably a free win in draft
trail anvil
actually I'd go so far as to say this card isn't amazing in draft
if you manage to stick 2 creatures by the time your opponent can play this 5 mana one then you have a 3/2 with no first strike even
tolsimir having to attack in the same combat makes the forced block not nearly as good considering how low his stats are
golden plover
Him having to attack is a big downside yeah, but I think it'll come down to the rest of the draft
Rn we've only got the bombs and mythics you don't play, will depend on the commons and uncommons
Wait what was the point of the spiders in the art and story if ||Trostani|| was the killer?
That's not really a red herring if they have 0 reason to be there other than "whoops you were wrong"
Well I guess it is, but it's a lazy one
trail anvil
another red treasure payoff
sudden lava
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948945461597831218/1196864528428826765/...
Time to make among us custom tokens for this
rigid scarab
Gggggggggggoooooooooooooooddddddddddddbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Also holy value
rigid scarab
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948945461597831218/1196872652602757271/...
Oh shit trophy is in standard
rigid scarab
Oh finality counters are evergreen?
lusty trench
Yeah it makes sense it’s more of a restriction than a mechanic
twilit canyon
these rare lands are crazy
they added sneak and show to timeless now too
victimize is some spice too its the cheapest reanimator spell in the format
and gamblr
*gamble
lusty trench
Damn the lands got the basic land types too
From a reprint point of view these special guests are poopy, but these are cool additions to timeless yeah
twilit canyon
they are solid outside of casual
if your deck doesnt need triomes and can afford tapped fetches on end step they are pretty good
trail anvil
hehe he gets a discount for his husband, affinity
golden plover
I like that you've only gotta have Ral out for the discount
Also they're doing that weird shit again from MOM
Tomik is legal in standard, but not your pre-release pool
Despite him coming in a sealed pack in it?
trail anvil
ic
golden plover
MOM had a couple "commander team up" cards that weren't legal in pre-release but in the pack
This time they did it again but they're weirdly standard legal too
trail anvil
also after finishing reading the story ||it makes a lot more sense now why one of the druids' effects is deathtouch lmao||
¯_(ツ)_/¯
twilit canyon
between this and cavern of souls
they just printed a better mana leak
golden plover
It's gonna be really weird knowing what is and isn't legal in your pre-release packs lmao
Since the list cards are now
But the bonus character cards aren't
twilit canyon
its the fear that they homogenize the draft/sealed format
trail anvil
I wouldn't call make disappear an outright better mana leak
trail anvil
oh lmao
twilit canyon
in every single way
trail anvil
whoops I thought that was just an alternate style for an already revealed card xd
twilit canyon
counter target spell unless they pay 3 if countered exile it
its fucking insane
counter memory deluge and its gone gone
counter a threat vs black thats 1 less threat they can get back with takenuma
its genuinely a very powerful card
trail anvil
ye there's a lot of gy recursion in this meta
that looks insane vs deluge in the mirror ye
were the full arts of the new dual lands posted yet?
twilit canyon
no not yet
trail anvil
spoiler on the story
||if you can see the letters and numbers that appear when you line the cards up, it shows RNA 32 x 5 + 4. that's RNA 164, cult guildmage, whose art shows a rakdos member controlling a puppet of jace||
sudden lava
hoping we see the relentless rat geen sorcery today
trail anvil
copter
twilit canyon
oh shit kuldotha rebirth
we have the modern deck now
relic warder??
oh shit we are close to that combo
spell snare
huge
trail anvil
wait this is just outright better depopulate
I think normally it would've rotated by now?
lusty trench
I think this is as close to a pure wrath we've seen in standard for a while isn't it?
Also that's some great flavour text
Damn that's a good last line of text
fallow citrus
OH some of these special guest cards are really nice
oh here's all of them actually
trail anvil
hot damn that's a discount
twilit canyon
already had posted the special guest cards but yea they are super nice reprints overall
fallow citrus
also analyze the pollen seems great for green in standard
zinc shard
trail anvil
bad timing with the cat and dog lair just revealed ye?
waxen timber
Analyze seems trash. The graveyard is heavily contested in standard and the fail case of searching for a basic land is bad
trail anvil
I don't think it's meant for standard, I think it's just a sidegrade to [[traverse the ulvenwald]]
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last glen
okay but what can I put into my dinosaur deck
trail anvil
lmao amalia should be an instakill in timeless
the only reason you're running her is for the explore combo
twilit canyon
this deck is insane into titan decks
its felt way better than i thought it would
obm, consistent drs, halfling and giver do a whole lot to make the deck flow well
also lunarch is so much stronger than soul warden. being able to come back when killed to trigger lifegain or being able to be a disposable blocker or obm magnet while still coming back is very important
dina def feels a bit mid to me
but she combos in another angle in cast i need to perform the combo on my turn
golden plover
I really hate the font on these
I wish it just used the regular font
But something something prosper
Who the fuck thought textless voidwalker was a good idea?
No one plays this card right with the text clearly on the card lmao
golden plover
People trip up on the last effect
golden plover
It's play without mana cost, but people forget if it's that or if it does the color fixing thing like Ghonti
Off the top of my head I cannot remember if he's symmetrical or not
twilit canyon
he isnt
golden plover
I also can't remember the name of his counter but that's less important
People also mix up Shadow, Shroud, and Skulk a lot
twilit canyon
shadow
if card enters opponents grave from anywhere, exile it with a void counter
tap: sac play a card exiled with void counter for free this turn
if ppl are messing up shadow shroud and skulk they probably shouldnt be playing magic
this game is too complicated for them
golden plover
I mean, it's fine when you're looking at him, but shadow and skulk aren't very common keywords
twilit canyon
theres also the fact that every single dauthi card has shadow
even moreso of an indictment as players
golden plover
There's another similar keyword for artifacts and black creatures but I can't remember which that is
golden plover
Voidwalker has a lot of niche parts of his text that matter
twilit canyon
and u cant bother to remember the difference between shadow and skulk
golden plover
Like the tap to sac is relevant too
twilit canyon
literally has the tap symbol
golden plover
Not on the textless one
twilit canyon
if u dont tap to sac its bc u didnt read the card anyways
and this textless isnt gonna change anything
golden plover
It's not like a super complicated card but he's got a lot of text and minor things like shadow being unable to block are relevant
twilit canyon
omnath was way more of an "issue" even then ppl know what omnath does especially its most iconic iteration
golden plover
People absolutely do not remember that shadow can only block shadow
twilit canyon
shadow being unblockable and only blocking other creatures with shadow is "relevant" if you have never played with or against voidwalker
if u are brand spanking new to modern your opponent still has to tell u exactly what the card does
if u are still messing up the battle phase with voidwalker again
probably shouldnt be playing magic
golden plover
No the thing is shadow can't block anything without it
twilit canyon
correct
golden plover
That's a relevant bit of text that people already forget a lot
copper pecan
people forget how shadow works all the time
golden plover
It's not a common keyword, and I've definitely seen people attempt to block with voidwalker when the text is on the card
twilit canyon
its one of the 3 things thats most relevant about it
thats entirely on them especially if they are not new
golden plover
It's a very small bit of text on an uncommon keyword on a card with 6 lines of text
twilit canyon
sure shadow isnt common but its on a top tier card
its like forgetting what dash does
copper pecan
they could have avoided this issue by just putting the text on the card instead of expecting people to completely memorize everything about it
twilit canyon
there is no issue though
golden plover
Like I said, I've had to point out the shadow thing even when people have a full text voidwalker in front of them
It's probably the easiest niche part of the card to get wrong
twilit canyon
are u sure they werent intentionally trying to get u to mess up
golden plover
Nah, it's genuinely really easy to forget that
Voidwalker is realistically the only card most people have played with shadow
copper pecan
most people don't have the text of every single card memorized
especially when the card has an obscure keyword that basically no other relevant cards use
twilit canyon
i play modern just about every weekend and play vs scam a good amount and no one forgets voidwalker's text
maybe if ur playing it in commander and they only ever play commander and this is the only time u have ever played with voidwalker
golden plover
Shadow basically showed up exclusively on old ass common creatures that suck and in time spiral
twilit canyon
its the dauthi keyword more or less
golden plover
It's REALLY easy to not know shadow off the top of your head
twilit canyon
sure if u dont play modern
golden plover
Yeah, and every dauthi that isn't voidwalker is unplayable
twilit canyon
if u play modern u know it bc dauthi voidwalker may be the best 2 drop in the entire format
copper pecan
most players don't know what a dauthi is, muchless their mechanical identity
twilit canyon
and has been a dominant card the entire time
golden plover
There's a reason shadow got phased out of being black's evasive keyword
That's ignoring mixing it up with Skulk or Fear if you don't have the text in front of you
twilit canyon
got phased out bc they kept trying to make unblockable a thing in black and realized it just kept causing problems as it ignores combat for 99% of cases
same with fear and skulk and they settled on menace
since its way more interactive to play against menace than the unblockable except by cards
golden plover
I mean they've gone on record as saying skulk, shadow, and fear are all too confusing to be in every set
twilit canyon
yeah bc again they just dont work well
they arent intuitive in how combat works in magic
but mh2 printed the most meta relevant card with shadow
and its the best 2 drop in modern probably top 3 creature in the format
if u play modern, u are required to know what shadow does
golden plover
This is a card that's being given out for standard and commander events too tho
golden plover
It's not, but it is in commander
twilit canyon
sure but then its a 1 of in the 99
golden plover
Yeah but the interactions still matter
twilit canyon
and if u dont know how your cards in the 99 work thats on u
if u dont know what ur opponents cards do then it matters a lot less bc its casual
golden plover
I dunno, I just wish they would have stuck with textless being only on iconic cards with like 2 lines of text
And not cards with 8
twilit canyon
its a non-issue
again if u are seeing this card for the very 1st time, ur opponent still has to give u the exact wording on the card
if u arent, and u see it all the time, u should know the text on it bc 99% of the time, this card is extremely relevant against your deck
glad peak
The only thing that might trip someone is that normal timing rules apply to the final ability
And even then it’s questionable
copper pecan
golden plover
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/948945461597831218/1196935978389090414/...
Honestly this card feels really complicated for an uncommon tbh
twilit canyon
golden plover
Feels very arena-focused as a design
copper pecan
it feels very much like they came up with a name and then designed the entire card around the name
like the effect only exists to justify having a card named a killer among us
golden plover
Yeah pretty much
I just don't like the idea of having an uncommon I've gottaa write hidden info on in paper every game
It's not the end of the world, but you know people are gonna cheat with it at pre-release and the whole secret noting thing just feels unnecessary
It's not the end of the world, but not really something I wanna draft and keep up with all night in person
Also where the fuck is that art taking place?
It feels wrong to see a card outside on Ravnica with 0 buildings
golden plover
Even then, they've typically had buildings in the art
Even vitu ghazi has buildings around it
lost widgetBOT
Land
: Add 
.
, : Create a 1/1 green Saproling creature token.
In the autumn, she casts her seeds across the streets below, and come spring, her children rise in service to the Conclave.
twilit canyon
[[!gruul guildgate]]
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twilit canyon
its just a gate but past that theres not a ton of building
and we do know that there are plenty of areas within the selensya conclave and the gruul turfs that have no nearby civilization
golden plover
I dunno, looks really out of place
It could be Selsenya or Gruul
But it's really weird for a regular ass forest on Ravnica
trail anvil
do you think the surveil lands could see play in modern since they're dual type?
fallow citrus
they could see play in a very niche situation but yeah
only decks that would want it are control decks
other decks would play the triomes instead
last glen
Are there any two color decks that would prefer the surveil over the third color?
polar lake
for the fun of it and for flavor reasons, im drawing an entire commander deck
yes proxying an entire commander deck
rigid scarab
Bloodline Ripper
Creatre - Vampire Assassin
Flying
Ward - Sacrifice a creature
Whenever a creature dies, target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
How does a slower and more expensive Grim Tutor sound?
lusty trench
Your viewing it as a slow tutor rather than a body that leaves something useful behind for later
It’s still not good but it’s not bad either
rigid scarab
True
golden plover
I might try it in Ghen stax
It's a repeatable tutor that comes with a body
I just wish the case layout was a bit different
It's too similar to the class layout and not super intuitive
twilit canyon
Your viewing it as a slow tutor rather than a body that leaves something useful ...
said body cant block and is hard to block
this if u get rid of it yourself, you need a card phyrexian tower or village rites and even then u still have to pay the mana to solve it
rigid scarab
My dog looks weird
Sorry about that
lusty trench
In standard or in general
twilit canyon
flash obm
lusty trench
Works with teshar as commander
Works with Sithis too
If you're in red it doubles dockside which is something ig
golden plover
OBM and Dockside are both good
Oh notably it hits great revel in pioneer
Not sure how relevant that is, probably not
But it's a card
Oh wait it's cedh viable
[[Oswald Fiddlebender]]
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Legendary Creature — Gnome Artificer
Magical Tinkering — , , Sacrifice an artifact: Search your library for an artifact card with mana value equal to 1 plus the sacrificed artifact's mana value, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle. Activate only as a sorcery.
"Can't see this airship crashing in the near future. Sturdy as a rock."
2/2
golden plover
Grabs you 2 artifacts
lusty trench
Not a triggered ability
golden plover
Oh shit you're right
golden plover
I mean it's slightly better fact or fiction
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
No clue
People are saying you can go "let me draw 5 or make a 5/5 flier" but your opponent can just make the piles 2/3
Give you your 3 worst cards and get a 2/2 flier
I'm not sure it's that good
twilit canyon
where does your opponent make the pile on the card
you make the piles. the opponent picks the pile
hence the ability to create leverage
in neutral situations without anything too pressing, you make a 2/3 pile
a 1/4 pile if u see a super important card u really would like
against pressure or when making it, u can force a 5/5 flyer into play or draw 5 cards
damn maybe textless voidwalker was a bad idea if ppl cannot read like this
sleek ferry
damn maybe textless voidwalker was a bad idea if ppl cannot read like this
expecting people to read the tcg’s they play
But yeah intrude the mind is pretty damn good
Delney is also good, and thank fucking god it’s not a soldier
twilit canyon
might be preferred over deluge if the new mana leak is super prevalent
sleek ferry
The tutor saga also seems fine, albeit slow
twilit canyon
its probably okay for standard but its at minimum 4 mana with set up
at that point u would just cast something like deluge
sleek ferry
Yeah deluge is probably still better, but the body is def more important in standard
So depends what you value
Threatening a 3/3 or 4/4 flyer in a control deck is pretty huge
twilit canyon
not just 3/3 or 4/4 u can do a 5/5
say opponent is at 10 life u tell them let me draw 5 or stare down a 2 turn clock
theoretically a 1 turn since u can do it on end step
golden plover
Oh right you make the piles. Okay yeah it's better then. My brain filled in fact or fiction
sleek ferry
Sure sure, I was just thinking about the most likely scenarios you’ll run into
golden plover
It's probably decent but it'd really depend on the control deck I guess
twilit canyon
4/4 or 5/5 if u have leverage
golden plover
2/2 flier and draw 3 isn't bad for 5, worst case scenario
twilit canyon
said leverage can come from either being behind or ahead
if u are behind and getting beat down, forcing the opponent to accept that u get a big chump blocker in the air or letting you draw 4-5 cards can swing a game either way
if u are ahead same deal
sleek ferry
It’s def matchup dependent, you can also leverage your opponent’s lead against them. Like if you somehow are able to cast this vs mono red, I think you threaten the 5/5 or draw 5 (if dying next turn is 50/50)
twilit canyon
yes that is what i said though in a match up like red this is just a card that is going to end the game in any case