you should though ideally
#Magic the Gathering
atomic harness
atomic harness
clever sun
Based Rusko enjoyers
atomic harness
copper pecan
zinc shard
you haven't lived until you play Displacer Kitty with Rusko out
clever sun
Also known as: Unlimited Clockworks
rich bronze
You don’t like planeswalkers?
But without them we wouldn’t have w6 oko or t3feri
😭
stark skiff
You don’t like planeswalkers?
Stopped playing when they became a thing so just never got into their whole mechanic lol
rich bronze
[[wrenn and six]]
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rich bronze
Tell me this isn’t pretty cool
2 mana and you can loop fetchlands every turn, guaranteeing perfect mana or you can kill a one toughness creature once a turn, and if it sticks for a while you get to use the ultimate and win 🙂
dense berry
this is gone be most of the value of the precon
atomic harness
loot no way the precs are actually worth buying 80 a pop right
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rich bronze
[[flayer of loyalty]]
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sudden lava
Apparently some spoilers for the Doctor Who cards came out (Like actual card spoilers)?
||Plane-earth ||
Also|| suspend|| jeskai deck
sudden lava
even a new phenomenon among the planechase stuff
lusty trench
Time traveling is adding or removing a suspend counter from each suspended card or permanent you control
meager isle
Ah okay thanks
sudden lava
Do we know what’s time traveling?
the reminder text is literally on the tenth doctor 
but heck yeah we got a suspend jeskai precon!
meager isle
the reminder text is literally on the tenth doctor <:cheems:683182129668292685>
I didn’t think I need to read the same card twice
The alt art was first so I read that and moved on
Doesn’t help mobile discord blocks it off like this
sudden lava
well, I know who Im picking up
also it's funny, Tenth's ability Allons-y triggers on attack (that means "Lets go!" in french)
golden plover
"Time Lord Doctor" is a nonsense typeline
sudden lava
"Time Lord Doctor" is a nonsense typeline
First type is his race, second is title
golden plover
I'm aware that it literally fits
But it looks dumb as hell
Also means "Time" and "Lord" are now valid typelines
sudden lava
No clue
but its fine, not like we are gonna get time as a creature type
and lord is covered by Noble
golden plover
Yeah but this does create a niche issue with some older cards
Lord used to be a creature type on stuff like [[Elvish Champion]]
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golden plover
So now it makes it look like she and the doctor share a typeline
And honestly? I could see someone getting confused by this
meager isle
The tardis card shows this
Can’t that just be interpreted as a creature needing both types?
golden plover
Can’t that just be interpreted as a creature needing both types?
Yeah, you could read it that way too. Since there are cards that need multiple creature types to do something
Oh so our first real person card won't be Assassin's Creed
Forgot Doctor Who does real people too
sudden lava
oh right the convention or whatever that revealed these is still happening
if we see Rose Tyler art, ping me
hidden ermine
So far this looks good
Also how does the whole planeswalk mechanic work in commander
Is it a rule 0 thing?
rigid scarab
Pulled a Sheoldred at EDH Night today :D
sudden lava
Also how does the whole planeswalk mechanic work in commander
each doctor who precon comes with 10
sudden lava
so yeah if you are not playing planeschase, you just dont planeswalk
if you are, great heres some cards to help you get started in that variant
golden plover
Pauper Bogles actually sounds real
And pauper Affinity has been around for a bit
It just mostly wasn't great
The good lists were in Grixis tho
So adding in white doesn't seem great
But I can definitely see boggles popping up
sudden lava
where the reveals came from
magicon is gonna have more stuff
Blast from the past: Blue/green/white historic
Time Lord is 1 type
also vanishing will be in the deck to
not just suspend
Rose Tyler is apparently less mana
so 4 cmc or lower
ROSE TYLER IS NEXT WEEK ALSO 😮
keyword (relates to paradox powers precon)
masters of evil is about being a villain, your opponents (sometimes one, sometimes all) will have to choose between two different bad things to happen
also artifact creature subtheme
lusty trench
masters of evil is about being a villain, your opponents (sometimes one, sometim...
This is just will of the council
sudden lava
also masters of evil is a group slug deck of course
one of the grixis commanders that can lead the deck ^
golden plover
Booo
Also, that means the cards don't actively do what they say on the card
Well I guess technically the rules text for Doctor's Companion kinda doesn't make sense as is
Since all it says is "if the other is the Doctor"
sudden lava
At the very least, morophon still has a key to the TARDIS for your other wacky morophon decks.
sudden lava
sleek ferry
That art is nice
lusty trench
Someone say good profile artwork?
meager isle
tatyova is such a fun deck
It feels so weird countering ramp but I feel like I have to against landfall decks lol
fallow citrus
god was 11 months really how long ago i made this
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/hGC78IIlCkmVagpyLiVnyg
zinc shard
https://shop.cheezit.com/shop/cheez-it-magic-the-gathering-bundle.html?fbclid=Iw...
So it's literally just the box is different?
golden plover
WAIT I JUST REALIZED WHY THEY DID THIS
Because the doctor doesn't have the reminder text for it
And so you can't give [[Orvar]] a second color
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golden plover
Cowards
Let Orvar be the doctor
I guess it also prevents Morophon from having a companion
But Orvar getting access to Dimir or Izzet would be more relevant
sudden lava
yes they thought of changeling legendaries when designing
at the very least, Orvar can still pilot a TARDIS
golden plover
Should have put the text on the doctor cards then
lusty trench
It's funny cause it was absolutely the BBC who went "no, they are a Time Lord, not a Time-Lord, not a TimeLord, a Time Lord"
golden plover
Oh 100%
But they still should have just put reminder text on the cards to have the doctor half of partner
lusty trench
Honestly they could've put the partner with on the doctor cards having them partner with companion
Since companion isn't a current creature type to my knowledge
golden plover
Yeah true. Would have worked better
Because now we get a rules text where the doctor is a random arbitrary interaction not defined on either card
And obvious stuff like Orvar sits in a weird spot
sudden lava
Since companion isn't a current creature type to my knowledge
Not a creature type but, a whole mechanic
lusty trench
I'm aware but the rules texts can explain they mean the companion creature type not the mechanic
sudden lava
and the companions dont have companion as a creature type, just a mechanic. But yeah easily fixable by just having the keyword pairing be Doctor and Doctor's companion.
could still keep time lord in the creature's type
sudden lava
Changeling tribal also eating good with that removal spell
dense berry
huh all these time counter cards
might drive up the price of my og future sight foil jhoira
sudden lava
might drive up the price of my og future sight foil jhoira
surely she wont go up that much
sudden lava
well she does cheat big stuff into play
trail anvil
the op is really fuckin missing a lot of cards but the comment section at least has some decent ideas 
you think counterspell could come off the historic list?
dense berry
its looks like the overwhelming majority of cards banned in historic are cards they added to historic knowing they would have to ban them
like channel
ragavan
bolt
dark ritual
brainstorm
demonic tutor
etc
trail anvil
yeah oko is banned lmao, as it is in many formats
I think bolt was discussed in this channel as a potential unban?
dense berry
its format defining
sleek ferry
Eh
Historic couldn’t even handle unholy heat
How the hell they going to handle bolt
trail anvil
[[unholy heat]]
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sleek ferry
It’s nerfed in historic
trail anvil
I feel like 6 is a huge extreme but idk well enough about other formats to argue on bolt's behalf
wasn't it brought down to 4 or something
dense berry
bolt also goes face
trail anvil
it does yeah
sleek ferry
It got brought down to 4 yeah
dense berry
with an unconditional 50% increase in damage
trail anvil
but that makes it feel like a weird comparison
sleek ferry
But bolt can go face like loot said
dense berry
for the same mana cost
bolt can go at battles too i think
if thats pertinent
(i dont play arena)
trail anvil
@clever sun @twilit canyon as the 2 people on this server that I see play the most historic what are your thoughts on this
let's say assuming wizards gets nerfed in some form since it's already a top tier deck ig
twilit canyon
they wont nerf classic and iconic cards
but nah 20/22 is insane
dem tutor, channel, natural order, dark rit baseline
trail anvil
oh monored is up there too 
nvm maybe we don't need bolt lmao
twilit canyon
can never be unbanned
trail anvil
nexus and memory lapse will also probably never come off due to play patterns
twilit canyon
bauble and lurrus cannot coexist
lapse no yea
lapse has become insane in a world with walkers
trail anvil
lapse was cancer fuckin incarnate, good riddance
trail anvil
do you think counterspell could come off
twilit canyon
swords to plowshares interaction is too good
same w bolt
counterspell is a hard maybe
we have good balance with counters in historic rn
trail anvil
oh right xd
trail anvil
do you think they could un-nerf it?
twilit canyon
uro, wild rec, nexus
og winota, omnath, fires
that can all come off
time warp
too
trail anvil
I think if they bring off nexus and warp the playerbase will complain real hard
twilit canyon
when will either spell resolve nowdays
or better yet
too slow vs one ring and shelly
and bowmasters too
take infinite turns is actually kind of deas
*dead
if an opponent resolves the one ring u cannot win if they dont get a turn back
trail anvil
ig you'd have to run more interaction than fogs to keep up with that
twilit canyon
yup
i think bc of prime time and how good gates are rn, u cant have field of the dead too
trail anvil
agent of treachery could come off too no? just not in hbrawl
twilit canyon
agent? sure
trail anvil
I think field is coming off with a nerf tbh
twilit canyon
nah
sleek ferry
Just give me OG winota back, I want to mess around with her in mardu reanimator
twilit canyon
itd have to be too heavy a nerf
trail anvil
I think you can nerf it pretty far while still keeping the original idea of "land = token" intact
twilit canyon
if u never played vs titan field
i understand why it feels fine
but having primeval titan and and gates being good rn
yea no way
trail anvil
wait gates are good rn?
twilit canyon
yes
destroys midrange
prime titan is insane when counter magic isnt super popular too
trail anvil
I need to see a list for this cause I loved gates in RNA standard
sleek ferry
[[primeval titan]]
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twilit canyon
and titan singlehandedly fixes the issue gates had
i saw this uploaded today
but the stream was a bit ago
its really really good
trail anvil
mythic wildcards, my kryptonite 
dense berry
probably decent in pauper
i like that it just stays cheap without having to delve everything away like gurmag angler
rich bronze
probably decent in pauper
Aye it’s definitely played in UB terror
dense berry
thats one thing i look forward to with these masters/horizons sets
crazy shit gets downshifted into common
golden plover
I think he actually ends up getting played in Pauper, yeah
I spent a bit of time yesterday trying to figure out a baubles list with [[All that Glitters]] and can't come up with one
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golden plover
But Serpent definitely sees play
fallow citrus
[[dread return]] is another huge downshift
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golden plover
Blood Aspirant is low key sleeper
And guttersnipe might revive grixis spellslinger
clever sun
<@970847564121395250> <@480437470870110209> as the 2 people on this server that ...
I don't think many Historic banned cards could come off
That reddit thread is insane
20/22
In what world are we okay playing Oko with Bowmasters and Sheoldred?
with Dark Ritual
and Demonic Tutor
copper pecan
oko would need nerfing to come off the list
demonic tutor and dark ritual absolutely can't come off the list
being able to play 3 mana spells on turn one is way too good even if you're locked into black
clever sun
Cards that can come off (Definitive Sol list with explanations!):
Agent of Treachery - no longer the best card to cheat in with Griselbrand and Atraxa
Nexus of Fate - Turns are harder to resolve with interaction and suffer from current big threats like Sheoldred and Bowmasters.
Omnath, Locus of Creation - it's unplayable at five mana. It's just enough at four since he sucks against Bowmasters and Sheoldred while still being relatively hard to cast and grt value out of.
Tibalt's Trickery - Funny combo
Time Warp - Same as Nexus but worse.
URO, TITAN OF NATURE'S WRATH - With the current climate of Sheoldred, Bowmasters, The One Ring, and other power cards, Uro can safely come back to the format I believe. It would be strong but not overpowered.
Veil of Summer - Interaction has scaled up, this is fine. It is only a bit better than Surge of Salvation.
Wilderness Reclamation - Funny combo but slower and fair.
Winota, Joiner of Forces - Nerfed version is like Omnath. Not good.
copper pecan
nexus could come off but i don't think they should risk it
fallow citrus
you say locked into black I say colourless artifacts
fallow citrus
dark rit into trinisphere would make me leave
clever sun
Dark Rit even at it's most fair is usually a turn one Lili of the Veil of Graveyard Trespasser.
copper pecan
idk why wilderness reclamation is still banned, that was only a problem because of nexus in the first place
clever sun
In the context of Historic, we have Mind's Desire and Tendrils
Absolutely no chance that Dark Rit is ever allowed
hidden ermine
[[Surge of Salvation]]
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hidden ermine
Huh
fallow citrus
yeah I don't see how dark rit is coming back with tendrils
clever sun
My big argument for Uro and Veil is also that Green is in a really really bad spot
As a pure color
copper pecan
fair enough i guess
i know this is an unpopular opinion here but i don't think bolt should be unbanned
it warps the format around itself way too much and reduces deck diversity
fallow citrus
I mean didn't unholy heat need to get nerfed for the format
clever sun
It did
fallow citrus
if you need to nerf heat I'm not sure bolt would be a great addition
clever sun
Apparently Domain Zoo is good too
golden plover
Bolt literally defines formats it's in
clever sun
so no way that deck should get three playable face burn spells
fallow citrus
Apparently Domain Zoo is good too
ok kind of pog
twilit canyon
its def capable of overtaking wizards as the premier aggro deck
its not weak to bowmasters, its able to bully past removal thanks to threat size, runs insane interaction with binding and tribal flames
waxen timber
A card I would love to have printed into historic is Veteran Explorer
Lists in legacy that play explorer are so fun to watch. It would be so fun to mess around with him
clever sun
No?
lusty trench
How shocking
golden plover
Bolt is good to add now
clever sun
No
golden plover
I guess you've also gotta add that you can't run any more than 4 in a combination of Bolt and Shock
golden plover
Oh 100%
Hence why shit like bolt and Dark Ritual can never be in the format
Bolt literally trivializes any creature with a toughness of less than 3. It can't be added
clever sun
maybe I should try historic if domain zoo is good then
It looks fun
I have yet to test it but I saw Misty playing it
twilit canyon
the deck has legs
for sure
its really good to not have creatures that die to bowmasters
and your card advantage doesnt come through card draw
and you can play bowmasters yourself
current list
copper pecan
i assume the off color triomes are for tribal flames?
twilit canyon
yesnt
so
6 triomes
is perfect
you never wanna see more than 1-2 triomes
but triomes are insanely good for enabling domain
so how it works
you wanna see indatha triome since it turns on possible t2 leyline binding for 1 mana
and its green and black for a t2 shock -> bowmasters/brawler/helix/kavu
indatha -> steam vents is domain
fallow citrus
does historic not have scion of draco?
fallow citrus
ah unfortunate
twilit canyon
but its not a huge deal
fallow citrus
yeah it's not the best card but it's nice to have
twilit canyon
it sure would be nice though
anyhow tho the triome/shock domain pairs are present
while also having functional shocks to cast all my spells
the least important color to have available in the deck atm is blue
hence why only 6 untapped blue sources
the next is black bc its just for bowmasters and the 1 of unmoored ego
but black has the benefit of being free tag-alongs in the triomes
since indatha and lounge both have black and are both good at enabling t2 kavu/brawler already
every single land pairing is then built to be enabling of 2 mana leyline binding at the very least by turn 3
and 14 green sources allows the deck to always have the mana to cast brawler and nactl
list has:
14 green
12 red
10 white
10 red
8 blue
perfect ratios
fallow citrus
just as god intended
just remembered wild cards will be cucking me in arena
unfortunate
fallow citrus
🙃
twilit canyon
if u have shocks and triomes, i can probably math together a near-perfect domain mana base for ya
fallow citrus
alas I do not
twilit canyon
none?
fallow citrus
this deck is 49 rares
only 28 rare wildcards away from being able to craft it :)
sudden lava
Just finished the Doctor Who episode The Parting of the Ways, now I get why that saga does what it does 
so cool
missed what the 1st part of the saga is supposed to be (since the doctor who sagas tell the episode through the abilities) but lore 2 references ||Rose Tyler being sent back through time and then going back through time to help the doctor.|| And lore 3 is her ||destroying all those Daleks at the end.||
glad peak
I don’t get what bad wolf is supposed to mean tho
Why does it just have the words bad wolf on the card
||(I know she becomes bad wolf but I mean the words itself)||
lusty trench
||It's a message that caused a self fulfilling paradox, ensuring rose stayed with the doctor long enough to be able to wipe out the daleks iirc||
hidden ermine
||Because those words appeared everywhere in the show beforehand, as a result of Rose essentially creating hints towards her existence as Bad Wolf||
sudden lava
more previews in about half an hour
Ooh?!
copper pecan
https://vxtwitter.com/DanaFischerMTG/status/1682929091266367489
https://vxtwitter.com/DanaFischerMTG/status/1682929218810949632
https://vxtwitter.com/DanaFischerMTG/status/1682929253669806081
art for new things
golden plover
https://vxtwitter.com/DanaFischerMTG/status/1682929091266367489
https://vxtwitte...
UB redwall?
Holy shit might be the one UB I'm sorta into
golden plover
https://vxtwitter.com/DanaFischerMTG/status/1682929091266367489
https://vxtwitte...
Oh fuck NEW ORLEANS THEMED PLANE?
copper pecan
1 appears to be from caverns of ixalan? the t rex hand and the bat demons looks ixalan-esque
copper pecan
2 is almost definitely theros, the character appears to be based on scylla
golden plover
Tbf there's a lot of old stories from New Orleans and the general vibe that's gonna make it SUPER COOL
copper pecan
3 could be any generic fantasy setting
4 looks phyrexian
5 is probably from either a new plane or new capenna
6 could be ikoria maybe?
7 is definitely a new plane
lusty trench
4 might lorwyn?
copper pecan
8 is either innistrad or a new plane
twilit canyon
Ahh, yes, the most otherworldly place
u ever been outside after mardi gras at like 2 am?
copper pecan
i feel like fantasy new orleans could be a cool setting
golden plover
It's been done a lot in the past and it always is
Although... Voodoo is still practiced
So... It might be weird to use that
lusty trench
I'd agree if goblins didn't have a uniform and consistent appearance based on the plane
golden plover
That or Theros
lusty trench
I'm mainly looking at the vines and thinking beanstalk
golden plover
True
lusty trench
8 I have absolutely no idea on
lusty trench
Yeah that's a Greek looking structure in the background
Number 1 seems either UB or a new major villain
Cause that is a lot of design work into a random character
copper pecan
it's almost definitely an ixalan demon
the bat iconography matches how the one ixalan demon that was mentioned back in that block was associated with bats, and the dinosaur hand also suggests ixalan
lusty trench
I'm like 100% certain picture 3 is more lotr the more I look at it
It's giving very riders of Rohan vibes
golden plover
the bat iconography matches how the one ixalan demon that was mentioned back in ...
Oh right, we haven't gotten him yet
atomic harness
Good ole bixalan
rich bronze
Turn 1 USea+Mox Diamond+Mana Crypt+Jeweled lotus to play toxrill is great fun
SEDH ( slug edh )
zinc shard
https://youtube.com/shorts/Hw6GmRdP0qU?feature=share
This is more of a comedy video but it makes a good point. you should only be allowed to play 1 copy of The One Ring
dense berry
https://youtube.com/shorts/Hw6GmRdP0qU?feature=share
This is more of a comedy v...
i mean this card is speedrunning getting restricted in vintage so dont count out the possibility of a flavor win yet
sleek ferry
zinc shard
golden plover
Oh so it's not a New Orleans plane damn
It's... Innistrad again
That's [[Old Rutstein]]
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golden plover
No fucking way we go back to Innistrad this soon
@lusty trench
Still looking like LoTR?
Oh wait it's totally LOTR
There's bonus stuff in the copyright line
The redwall one does not have bonus stuff
So it's redwall inspired and not literally redwall
lusty trench
Eldrane probably
lusty trench
There's bonus stuff in the copyright line
Middle earth enterprises
lusty trench
If it is that's an odd ass way to tease it
golden plover
Still can't believe we're going back to Innistrad within the year tbh
lusty trench
Could be old Rustin traveling planes using the new pathways
fallow citrus
pretty sure this is meant to be ixalan
has the "explorer photographing new places" vibe
golden plover
Ixalan doesn't have that kind of architecture tho
This girl looks like Rakdos?
She's in a carnival outfit
fallow citrus
Ixalan doesn't have that kind of architecture tho
well it is the lost cities
golden plover
If we unironically go to Ravnica and Innistrad again this soon lmao
Ravnica has been a bit since WAR, I'd be fine with that
But Innistrad literally just happened
lusty trench
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if some rakdos is just sort of spreading their mayhem across the multiverse
lusty trench
Probably ixalan
golden plover
It's more Meso-American
lusty trench
There's ruins in the back
lusty trench
lusty trench
Yep golden eggs
golden plover
So Eldraine, Innistrad, New Capenna(?), Ixalan, Ravnica(?), Ixalan(?), LOTR, new Redwall Plane
lusty trench
Oh wait it's totally LOTR
there is no plane I can't Identify via goblins
golden plover
Lots of revisits
dense berry
https://preview.redd.it/su378q52urdb1.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c69...
can we talk about how dumb she looks holding her sword like that
sudden lava
https://preview.redd.it/e7fdbn52urdb1.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bf...
turtle hydra
golden plover
<:cheems:683182129668292685> there is no plane I can't Identify via goblins
What's this guy from?
sudden lava
eldrane
lusty trench
That is the most not goblin goblin I've ever seen
Guessing it's an early one
So probably dominaria
golden plover
It is
sudden lava
only 5 days till Magicon
lusty trench
You can't just show me elder scrolls box art and tell me it's a MTG goblin
(I got no clue on this one)
sudden lava
soon
dense berry
the realism art really puts me off
lusty trench
I struggle with the old goblins cause wotc didnt have a strict design guide for em
Like things within a plane will look sort of similar but there's a lot more variety
sudden lava
also card reveal for "Will of the Council" 2 
dense berry
I struggle with the old goblins cause wotc didnt have a strict design guide for ...
meh just chock it up to racial diversity, dominaria is a massive place after all
golden plover
the realism art really puts me off
Oh I 100% agree. I don't like the realistic paintings of actual actors
sudden lava
golden plover
Like the D&D movie cards SUPER take me out of it
This is just Chris Pine
Like it doesn't look like a magic card. It's just Chris Pine
sudden lava
at least his effect is based
golden plover
I mean, it's a cool effect but I'd want it on an art that is a regular actor
sudden lava
fair
golden plover
Yeah true. I just personally don't like seeing real people on mtg cards
trail anvil
what about the worlds winner cards
lusty trench
Bob is fine
Faerie mastermind feels like they just photoshopped in the guy's face and colour corrected it
Fevernt champion looks a bit funky too
So does sad boi
dense berry
honestly they did yuta dirty with mastermind
such an ugly artwork for pretty attractive guy
golden plover
Yeah true. Mastermind looks like they just slapped his face on it...
sleek ferry
Cool guy, fun run back he had, but calling Yuta pretty attractive is in the eyes of the beholder
Idt he makes the cut of even being conventionally attractive
High key, the card looks better than he does irl
They managed to mask his weird shaped head and made his receding hairline passable
zinc shard
The legendary no Land Hand
atomic harness
what about the worlds winner cards <:nyaruhodo:873056991973634078>
im a bit biased, I like the invitational and the worlds winner cards
But I dont like the actors universes beyond as cards
trail anvil
to me they're the same, tbh I actually think the worlds winners cards look worse cause sometimes it seems like they hastily stapled it on
especially the sad robot
dense berry
dark confidant and snapcaster mage both look very good imo
trail anvil
the biggest snapcaster mage art looks like ken jeong
rich bronze
120€ with shipping included pog
twilit canyon
thats less beat up than mine nice lol
tbf i got my gilded drake way back when it was like
80$
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rich bronze
Lucky bastard
lusty trench
atomic harness
glad peak
Tbh evil zedruu sounds more fun and complex that dropping tribal cards down
atomic harness
Yeah it sounds way better than anything they were ever pushing
Also mudkip last week someone void rended my stax piece, tried to pop off, but didn't win despite nobody else having open interaction 
so the other person who was being blocked by the stax piece won
glad peak
Sounds like stax
Also yeah I play 1 stax piece because one guy insists on playing manual storm and everyone insisting it’s fun and yet my 2 card combo with no tutors is “me only having fun with myself” 
My experience playing a weaker combo deck Vs cedh control was very interesting though even though it was only a 1v1
atomic harness
oh I wasn't necessarily on stax, I just have a few incidental stax pieces
it was [[ethersworn canonist]]
lost widgetBOT
rich bronze
Where do y’all buy singles more often? LGS, TCGplayer/CK/Whatever or cash deals on Facebook/with other players
sleek ferry
Tcgplayer/eBay usually, only time I buy singles at an LGS is if I have mass store credit
dense berry
<:fedora:815503851980587019>
my complaint about stax is actually that its just not good enough
atomic harness
Oh for sure 
dense berry
in cedh aside from some outliers like winota or urza, stax is just group hug with extra steps
atomic harness
I dont think we'll ever see crazy good stax ever again, idt it's a thing wotc wants to support
aside from winota/urza yeah
dense berry
also theres the collusion issue
its hard to gather evidence for it at the individual level
atomic harness
Collusion?
dense berry
but at the overall level you can observe a very strange phenomenon
where the winrate of stax in pods doesnt line up with the winrate of stax in top cut
which points to the fact that stax players are often playing to collude and feed wins to their friends
atomic harness
stax often feels like a kingmaker in most cases because it doesn't do enough and it screws over only half the table or so, but one person wouldn't be affected as much and performs their combo win anyway
or gets screwed over the least
there's also uhh people very eager to remove the stax piece in an attempt to win or play the game without considering they're handing the win to the next person
dense berry
yup everything gets screwed up
i had two games against stax in the last tournament i went to
in one it was blatant collusion
brago player drops winter orb on a board where kinnan has resolved kinnan and a consecrated sphrinx
and then proceeds to feed the sphinx as much as possible
dense berry
the second was against winota and her stax pieces put me out of the game until we were in time in the round where i was able to deluge their board and combo off
atomic harness
dense berry
i wouldnt have won without the stax player
atomic harness
Honestly I love playing w stax since they help me win the most
it's why I like playing w both my stax friends, everyone else is stuck while I actually get to punch people as a wincon with fat menace constructs 
mostly the rule of law / deafening silence type stuff
I've also been a kingmaker with some of my pieces so I admit that btax usually isnt enough 
@sleek ferry maybe you can share some of your thoughts re: stax
dense berry
yep
nothing i can do about it
told the TO about it so she knows to watch out for it later
lusty trench
Have you read misc but instead it's have you read kinnan
dense berry
but otherwise i got to hold an L
lusty trench
Who tf plays a winter orb Vs a set up kinnan
sleek ferry
I'm of the same thought process as the first comment in the reddit post you posted. Stax is a style of gameplay, and should be respected just as much as other styles. It's not just mtg, but tcg's in general are so combo/midrange pilled, they think that should be the only viable way to play the game
rigid scarab
<@240310577925193729>
And this is what drives me away from Cedh tournaments
Why the hell should I be punished for my opponent's mistakes
atomic harness
Hum I haven't had any cedh experience either, but I have tried paid pods. Stax player didn't necessarily play wrong in our match, but his floodgates let me fight for the board and bide enough time to draw multiple interactions
atomic harness
Cedh is not what WOTC prioritises for Commander
oh I thought the point was they didn't want to promote more stax, not necessarily cedh
sleek ferry
Cedh is not what WOTC prioritises for Commander
prioritizing isn't even the issue here tbh, they pretend as if cedh doesn't exist
sleek ferry
I love the precons
atomic harness
Yeah dw I jest
sleek ferry
I'm huge on precon commander over alcohol
rigid scarab
prioritizing isn't even the issue here tbh, they pretend as if cedh doesn't exis...
Well if they pretended it didn't exist they wouldn't have banned flash
lusty trench
I'm still waiting on the dockside thassas ban. It's never gonna happen but I can dream
atomic harness
Those arent dying yeah 
granite badge
my biggest issue with edh precons atm is they still have shit manabases
rigid scarab
But idk what's considered 'recognising cedh'
granite badge
its like literally the first thing you remove whenever you buy one
rigid scarab
The issue comes in the fact that
You can't really split the format
Everything WOTC does to cater to cedh will affect casual edh
rich bronze
cedh = casual edh
rich bronze
Why do casual edh players hate blue it’s not live they’ll ever see a FoW
rigid scarab
Flash was a good ban because hardly any casual decks are playing Flash, even less so as its main wincon
atomic harness
Why do casual edh players hate blue it’s not live they’ll ever see a FoW
grr interaction
pretty much
rigid scarab
Why do casual edh players hate blue it’s not live they’ll ever see a FoW
High power is getting more and more normal
And expected
lusty trench
They will get PoN'd though
atomic harness
well they dislike counterspells in general, not necessarily just FoW
rigid scarab
I'd argue that it's extremely likely for a casual player to see a force of will
Or any free counterspell
rich bronze
Why would you play free interaction in casual tho
rigid scarab
Because high power games are becoming the norm
atomic harness
honestly yeah
rigid scarab
Why would you play free interaction in casual tho
Because winning is fun
granite badge
grr interaction
"what do you mean you killed my Tergrid as soon as I casted it I was going to win next turn!!!"
atomic harness
"what do you mean you killed my Tergrid as soon as I casted it I was going to wi...
sorry kid, try casting tergrid again on 7
rigid scarab
Making your deck stronger is fun
atomic harness
(it'll still be stopped)
rigid scarab
For a lot of people
granite badge
Tergird was unironically the first deck I tore apart entirely because it was unfun to pilot
rich bronze
Because winning is fun
Okay ONW to play my optimised yuriko cedh deck against precons
granite badge
its a one trick pony sort of deal
rigid scarab
Okay ONW to play my optimised yuriko cedh deck against precons
That's unironically the problem
The more the community leans to "Stop being such crybabies"
Rule 0 talk gets phased out
granite badge
"did Tergid hit the board y/n did you yoink cards from opps hand/field y/n oopsies you lost cause nobody has anything good in their decks to win with anyway"
rigid scarab
Which allows for more pubtomps
lusty trench
Me casting imoti (the cascading will continue until interaction within my playgroup increases)
rich bronze
That's unironically the problem
I mean optimised yuriko is like $3000 or more idk… and that’s on the low end for cedh… or do they just proxy everything and play against precons because why not
rich bronze
yes
rigid scarab
And so so is optimised Yuriko
rich bronze
But don’t proxy a cedh deck to play against precons
dense berry
I'm of the same thought process as the first comment in the reddit post you post...
its a style of gameplay that doesn't fit "play to win" in most instances so its actually to me more okay for casual than competitive edh
rich bronze
why would you do that
rigid scarab
Yeah of course not
dense berry
only a few stax commanders are really played to win
rigid scarab
But rule 0 talk is becoming less and less prevelant
Since a lot of what players don't wanna see is being lumped into "Lol mad cause bad"
atomic harness
I think stax works better for casual yeah loot
rigid scarab
So people just play whatever
atomic harness
and usually you dont like full commit, just have randomly good cards that happen to be stax pieces or smth
rigid scarab
If players want proxies to become a norm, they have to be ready for high power to become the norm
atomic harness
I proxy lands sickle
dense berry
i became a TO for proxy legal events
atomic harness
But yeah proxying is cool
rigid scarab
And I'm not talking "Oh yeah proxy if you want"
dense berry
play against the player not the wallet and what not
rigid scarab
I'm talking proxying becoming more common than actually buying cards
atomic harness
99 proxies 
rigid scarab
Because literally why not
dense berry
thats gonna happen sooner than later
rigid scarab
thats gonna happen sooner than later
And once that happens everyone has to accept that high power will be the default in casual edh
rich bronze
This is why I like pauper
dense berry
casual edh is already really high powered compared to where it was back when i played it
lost widgetBOT
rigid scarab
And given the cedh boom right now
rich bronze
NVM 1 financial mini barrier
dense berry
thats what happens when every card is an army in a can valuecruiser with 4 beneficial effects
rigid scarab
I wouldn't be surprised to see cedh become the norm as well sometime in the future
atomic harness
I doubt that sickle, but we can all agree that casual has definitely become a lot more powerful than expected
dense berry
i play a lot of black in pauper
rigid scarab
And if proxying becomes the new normal expect it to get a lot more powerful again
rich bronze
Old
dense berry
indeed
atomic harness
Loot does this mean I proxy rhystic study
lusty trench
https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/53/snuff-out
Wait snuff out is how much now
lost widgetBOT
rigid scarab
Tbh I think the whole 'casual players hate interaction' thing is blown way out of proportion
rich bronze
5 bucks lol
lusty trench
I legit bought a duel decks anthology for the cost of a demonic tutor
(it has one in it)
rich bronze
Nice
atomic harness
Tbh I think the whole 'casual players hate interaction' thing is blown way out o...
yeah it's not that bad. I think it's just a meme every time blue discussion is being talked about
dense berry
not quite 23 years ago but i did start playing sanctioned mtg with Dissention drafts
dense berry
Tbh I think the whole 'casual players hate interaction' thing is blown way out o...
no its not
at all
atomic harness
dense berry
casual players hate their own decks if its beating them
rich bronze
not quite 23 years ago but i did start playing sanctioned mtg with Dissention dr...
Still like 17 years
dense berry
i know this ive borrowed decks
rich bronze
not quite 23 years ago but i did start playing sanctioned mtg with Dissention dr...
I have the most expensive card from dissension btw
rigid scarab
Imo I think the more likely case is that they tend to have more of a reaction
Like a video game boss being hit by an attack
Loot idk how bad of an LGS/Online experience you had
atomic harness
Loot maybe you can help me with my manabase sometime too, I'm pretty butt at evaluating lands
rich bronze
Loot maybe you can help me with my manabase sometime too, I'm pretty butt at eva...
Format?
atomic harness
oh edh
rich bronze
Start with every single OG dual, shock and fetch in your colours
Then it depends on what you wanna do
With your deck
atomic harness
this is taking proxies into account right
rich bronze
Sure why not
atomic harness
Yeah I'm not getting true duals
rich bronze
Well, shocks and fetches wouldn’t hurt
rigid scarab
Yeah you go through the dual shock and fetch checklist
rigid scarab
You ask yourself "Can I proxy it" and "Am I willing to buy it"
If it's no on both then you move on
rich bronze
Honestly
rigid scarab
If it's yes on either then you can put them in your deck and continue
rich bronze
Buy the mh2 fetches
atomic harness
Yeah we're only allowed a few proxies here, go too much and you kinda get funny looks from ppl
rich bronze
Like all of them
atomic harness
I only own one marsh flats so far 
, none of the shocks. Here's what I've been using. I defo want to trim down the taplands outside of the MH artifact ones, because those are important to my gameplan
I also dont know the optimal number of lands tbh
dense berry
Loot idk how bad of an LGS/Online experience you had
ive played a lot of games at a lot of different lgs
i will say one time my serra angel turbo deck was too much
so i borrowed a guys tribal walls deck
killed them all on turn 6 or something
so i borrowed his tribal dragons deck and he used walls
and he got salty he couldnt block fliers
rigid scarab
You can get salty for all sorts of different reasons
That definitely seems like a frustrating experience for that player
rich bronze
I also dont know the optimal number of lands tbh <:ICANT:922503228241895464>
Depends on your curve
Some decks run a disgustingly low land count
Because they can
atomic harness
Depends on your curve
ideally it's t1 artifact creature 1 drop
t2 mana myr, t3 into commander
then you just wail on people with constructs and have mana up for cheap interaction. There's a combo win here but it's more so a plan B
rich bronze
As an example
Here’s a deck that runs 16 lands https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/deck-decklist-by-evolved22-1707141
Here’s a deck that runs 30
They’re both from the same format - Legacy
rich bronze
Sure but the ideas the same
fallow citrus
man it sucks there's no modern local to me
I keep seeing whole decks get listed and want to buy them but I'd never have the chance to play them
angery
rich bronze
man it sucks there's no modern local to me
Modern is temporarily cringe anyway
Cuz of the ring
And OBM
rich bronze
and legacy is too expensive for me irl
Play death and taxes
It’s like 800
And very good
fallow citrus
I would also need to see if there's any legacy nearby as well lmao
fallow citrus
true
fallow citrus
oh yeah I forgor fow
sleek ferry
eh modern is fine, OBM is a bit cringe, but the format will eventually shift to attempt to push TOR out
sleek ferry
anyways OBM was needed because DRC was cringe
fallow citrus
unfortunately drc will be a 3/3 most of the time anyway
rich bronze
Ragavan you mean?
sleek ferry
ragavan also
fallow citrus
murktide is only bad because it plays 'fair' magic
sleek ferry
also hits esper sentinel ig
rich bronze
I hate scam even so
Living end too
fallow citrus
I mean
at least with LE you have chalice reprieve remand counterspell etc for le
you get scammed before you can have a chance to put mana up for it
rich bronze
Yawgmoth is cool
rich bronze
AAAAA
Yawg is honestly way too good rn
But
It’s not a braindead deck
Unlike scam and le
so it can stay for a while
fallow citrus
if you can play yawg it's cracked rn
halfling and obm was insane for the deck
and they could adapt to ring's protection by just swapping in zulaport cutthroat
rich bronze
yep
I like creativity because it’s kind of a Timmy deck
You resolve a 4-5 mana sorcery to win via beats
fallow citrus
I got bored of creativity even though I liked it
rich bronze
putting a big monster or two on the board
rich bronze
I got bored of creativity even though I liked it
It’s fun in moderation
It’s still good rn
But
Probably gonna be stagnant for a while unless we see a ring or OBM ban
After the PT
rich bronze
I got bored of creativity even though I liked it
Creativity, at its core, is a midrange deck
Turn 1 interaction in the form of bolt/pierce into Wrenn into T3feri/Fable into your actual wincon
is pretty cracked
fallow citrus
yeah but it just had top deck syndrome for a while for me
because it was the best pick for a while and everyone played it I just didn't like it as much
fallow citrus
yeah everyone took out orvars and stuff to play other hate
fallow citrus
hmm
hopefully scam
I think ring probably gets hit depending on representation
possible they leave it alone for a while though
rich bronze
I’d hate that
Ban ban ban
Murk is fun and fair creativity is fun ( but more problematic ) yawg is super cool
fallow citrus
I think a lot of people would like it as just relegated to being an edh card
rich bronze
Creativity seems like a super fair deck
Relative to le and scam
It wins turn 4-5 on the earliest and even then it’s not an outright win yet
fallow citrus
I think I like my idea
hitting cascaders so LE and Rhinos have to play worse cascaders to function
rich bronze
Sounds good
fallow citrus
instead of agent having to play uhh ardent plea
or just a cascader that costs more mana
rich bronze
We have a LE player
That insists that it’s the most skill testing deck in the format
fallow citrus
what
rich bronze
yes
Honestly
Burn takes a lot more skill to play well
Than LE
with burn at least the few decisions you make matter a lot
With le they don’t really
fallow citrus
burn is way more complicated than LE
LE is assessing if your opp can counter your LE or when to commit resources to the yard if they have hate up
rich bronze
Arena edh
Would be mega ass
Unless they add all the cards that are on modo
I can’t see anyone going from modo to arena
For edh
golden plover
People would play it because arena
But I honestly cannot see arena being able to handle edh?
Also, imagine how toxic it'd be considering how toxic actual casual edh can get
When it's 3 faceless avatars behind a computer screen and not 3 people you know, people are gonna get BAD
sleek ferry
I could care less about the randoms
We got people in this chat that would actively play edh with each other if it got imported to arena
sleek ferry
Eh, I get why they don’t have chat but tbh, any online game you play is full of racists/bigots/people saying whatever harmful shit because they’re behind a computer screen
zinc shard
Doing my part
golden plover
Pioneer mode fully supported
Bro it'd literally take one explorer anthology
But y'all have to add shit cards instead
zinc shard
... ok but why do you need to know this
"Which of the following video games have you ever played? Which do you play currently?"
atomic harness
put in pokemon as well
zinc shard
Looking at announcements... they're really charging money for this huh
trail anvil
ofc they are
sleek ferry
Anything cosmetic being paid is w.e
I made sure to put on the survey that pack prices (gold) and draft accessibility is bullshit though
dense berry
I also dont know the optimal number of lands tbh <:ICANT:922503228241895464>
typically in cedh you want around 26-30