Magic the Gathering

[sudden lava]

65 dollars

[rigid scarab]

When your opinion of a set goes from mid to lol

Compared to when it goes from excited to meh

Which I'm sure is the reaction of many players when CMM got revealed

[twilit canyon]

thats not too bad for such an exclusive card

[sudden lava]

that's a bit too much out of my budget

for 1 card

[twilit canyon]

ok

[sleek ferry]

did they ever reprint rick?

or not yet?

[twilit canyon]

not yet iirc

[sudden lava]

I dont think they have

[sleek ferry]

ah yeah, you're SOL for now then

[twilit canyon]

in any case get a printer

cheaper down the line

[sleek ferry]

yeah, i got proxies for fetches, shocks and duals

[fallow citrus]

I forgot what does rick even do

[[rick, steadfast leader]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/sld/143/rick-steadfast-leader

Rick, Steadfast Leader <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Human Soldier
As Rick enters the battlefield, choose two abilities from among first strike, vigilance, and lifelink.
Humans you control have each of the chosen abilities.
As long as you control four or more Humans, Humans you control get +2/+2.
3/4

[sleek ferry]

luckily most other cedh things are pretty affordable

[fallow citrus]

oh yeah he's p good

[sleek ferry]

cedh is not that expensive outside the land base tbh

[rigid scarab]

I don't think I see myself proxying

[twilit canyon]

i disagree on him being good bc if ur restricting urself to mono-white for humans u have done something wrong before u even started

[fallow citrus]

mfw I play tatyova

[rigid scarab]

I just don't feel comfortable with inauthentic cards

[sleek ferry]

eh you get over it sickle

[twilit canyon]

yea but ur wallet will be

[sleek ferry]

i used to be that way

but it feels much better playing with the cards

[twilit canyon]

spending 50$ on mpc.com for 3 full cedh decks

[sleek ferry]

than just wondering when you'll be able to afford them

[rigid scarab]

Well that's the thing

I don't feel an overwhelming need to change power level

[twilit canyon]

doesnt has to be changing power level

[rigid scarab]

So much that I need to proxy cards right now to get a deck for it

[fallow citrus]

me when I spend a month's wage to buy a machine washed gaea's cradle

[sudden lava]

reminder on the companion/doctor colors
Blast from the past: Doctor is blue/green, companion white
Timey-Wimey: Doctor is blue/red, companion white
Paradox Power: Doctor is blue/green, companion red

[twilit canyon]

u can just proxy

no one is stopping u for casual play

[dense berry]

one good thing about hasbro going off the deep end this year is that more people support proxies now than ever. i actually just became a TO for community driven proxy friendly tournament magic

[sleek ferry]

wait

all the doctor who decks have companions?

[sudden lava]

and we know all doctors (alt commanders included) included are two color, all companion is mono

[sudden lava]

Not all

[sleek ferry]

I never thought we would get the companion mechanic back unless it was like giga nerfed

[sudden lava]

it's not companion mechanic

http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/dr-who-3-819x461.jpg

[rigid scarab]

Like I know I can't surmount much of a defense outside of "I want real cards"

[hidden ermine]

Its called that

But its closer to partner

[twilit canyon]

its fancy partner with

[sudden lava]

It's a fancy partner yeah

[twilit canyon]

in any case im struggling to find who asked

[rigid scarab]

And I know proxying is technically the correct choice for casual EDH play but

[twilit canyon]

did i miss something where we discuss the dr who stuff

[sudden lava]

its next up on the reveals

[twilit canyon]

i mean sure. are they revealing anything rn?

[sudden lava]

we have some stuff, not a lot though. Like we dont have the actual abilities yet

[dense berry]

nah even in competitive edh the only reason proxies arent always allowed is because hasbro wont let licensed stores allow proxies

[sudden lava]

Also as for why I said "not all doctor who precons", masters of evil has 1 face commander

Davros

[twilit canyon]

neat. we dont need to see reminders about dr who stuff every other day or so.

especially without new info

cus i thought we got news already and we missed it

[rigid scarab]

Doesn't WOTC legalise like 30% of your deck to be proxies in Vintage?

[twilit canyon]

not that im aware of

[sudden lava]

but yeah Im looking at human tribal commanders for something after I get timey-wimey

so a red/white one at minimum (You can see where Im going with this. )

[dense berry]

its honestly getting to the point where im considering cashing out of mtg

the game is fun but who needs it

[golden plover]

Honestly more card games need to take the netrunner approach

[twilit canyon]

u can play for free anyhow

[dense berry]

exactly

[golden plover]

Proxies were legal in all official formats in netrunner

Just as long as your deck was uniform

[dense berry]

netrunner giga based

[golden plover]

Netrunner was giga based

But then wotc killed it because it wasn't making enough money

[twilit canyon]

i dont agree on needing to borrow things from dead games but thats pretty cool

[sudden lava]

cuz the two main commander decks I wanna build right now is the timey-wimey upgraded version, and human tribal where I throw in all the companions in

[sleek ferry]

oh all the aftermath legendaries are dirt cheap besides nissa

[golden plover]

I mean, it made it so tournaments were just the best players and not only people who could afford the crazy buy-ins

[twilit canyon]

[[$nissa awakened animist]]

[lost widget]

No card found for “nissa awakened animist”

[sudden lava]

doctor companions to be precise

[twilit canyon]

what was her name

[rigid scarab]

How was netrunner making money?

Chase collector market?

[fallow citrus]

I'm sure it was that

[[nissa, awakened animist]]

[sleek ferry]

[$nissa resurgent animist]]

[lost widget]

No card found for “nissa, awakened animist”

[fallow citrus]

oh resurgent?

[sleek ferry]

[[nissa resurgent animist]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mat/22/nissa-resurgent-animist

Nissa, Resurgent Animist <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manag:292901508654301185>

Legendary Creature — Elf Scout
Landfall — Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, add one mana of any color. Then if this is the second time this ability has resolved this turn, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal an Elf or Elemental card. Put that card into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
3/3

[twilit canyon]

[[$nissa resurgent animist]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/mat/22/nissa-resurgent-animist

Prices for Nissa, Resurgent Animist

March of the Machine: The Aftermath

$28.92 • €41.97 • 30.79 TIX

March of the Machine: The Aftermath

$44.01 • 14.12 TIX

March of the Machine: The Aftermath

$33.22

March of the Machine: The Aftermath

$44.42

[golden plover]

Netrunner didn't do packs. It was all effectively duel decks

[rigid scarab]

People who drew the best*

[golden plover]

So like a set would always have the same cards in it

[fallow citrus]

god that nissa is cracked

[clever sun]

Nissa schmissa

She's green so she's bad

[sleek ferry]

green's a bad color, agreed

except collector ouphe

[rigid scarab]

Ok so again

[sleek ferry]

he's bae

[clever sun]

If you're green in 2023, you're bad

[rigid scarab]

How was it making money

[hidden ermine]

Not how Netrunner works

And the answer is simple

It sold packs

[clever sun]

Also I will say, Netrunner sounds like it had cool ideas but damn does it all sound like it was executed in the most boring ways imaginable

[hidden ermine]

Those packs came with every card in the set as a playset

Making the game very affordable

[sleek ferry]

well, this all makes sense then as to why it died

[hidden ermine]

Well no

[rigid scarab]

But Netrunner also allowes proxies in all events

So why buy packs

[hidden ermine]

It "died" because Wizards refused to allow the license to be renewed

The game was successful

[rigid scarab]

Honestly this just sounds like the game was too player-optimised

[sleek ferry]

this doesn't sound like a sustainable system tbh

[hidden ermine]

Hell, its the only game I can think of that had an effort ot be continued by players

[golden plover]

Yeah netrunner was doing fine, it just wasn't a cash cow

[hidden ermine]

That actually worked

[hidden ermine]

It was

[rigid scarab]

How long did netrunner last

[sudden lava]

Ooh if I wanna go the extra mile, I could do Aragorn and then I can add ALL the doctors

[hidden ermine]

Uh

... 6 years or 7?

[clever sun]

Not sustainable in today's gaming economy

[sleek ferry]

this is better for you

it's a poor man's kenrith

[hidden ermine]

7 years I think

[rigid scarab]

WOTC wouldn't kill a game if it was making money

[golden plover]

I mean, honestly I think it could have worked

[meager isle]

Lorcana gonna shatter the big three

[sudden lava]

all the doctors are 2 colors to so they would get two effects rather then 1, less synergy with the companions tho

since they mono

[golden plover]

I think they just didn't want to keep it going

[sleek ferry]

it will just turn it into a big 4 if anything

[meager isle]

More competition is better anyways

[sleek ferry]

if disney is serious about the tcg market, they will make themselves part of the conversation

[hidden ermine]

They werent the ones making the game, just licensing it out

They wanted the license for themselves as far as we know

[sleek ferry]

if this is just a quick cash grab than players will catch on

[hidden ermine]

But no one knows for what

But yeah no Netrunners system is good

[rigid scarab]

But also how was the system sustainable

[hidden ermine]

Because it sold packs and sets?

[sudden lava]

Plus if I make Aragorn my commander it would be pretty wacky cuz different Universe Beyond set cards in one

[hidden ermine]

Rather than aiming at people whaling, it aimed at having a strong core playerbase that actively purchased product that made decks affordable

[rigid scarab]

But from what I'm hearing

Proxies are tournament legal in all formats

[sleek ferry]

I see now it was sustainable

[rigid scarab]

So did players not proxy out of like

Moral reasons

[sudden lava]

but for now I probably should just pick up some jeskai staples

[twilit canyon]

nah it seems wotc still has the netrunners license

they always did

looking it up

[hidden ermine]

People wanted the cards

Yeah

[sleek ferry]

the game came out in 1996, when proxies werent easily accessible

[hidden ermine]

They licensed it out

Then didnt renew the license

[sleek ferry]

nowadays a system like that would fail

[hidden ermine]

For context were talking about the FFG game

[twilit canyon]

yea it wasnt wotc tho

[hidden ermine]

The original Netrunner

Was just your standard pack-based game

That one died in 1.5 years iirc

Yknow, when the card market bubble burst in the late 90s

[twilit canyon]

zvi mowshowitz tried buying the game from wotc to revive it

back in 2012

but negotiations fell through

[rigid scarab]

I don't know but sanctioned proxies for your big name events just doesn't sound like a good idea

I don't care if you're the most moral business in the world

In 2023 that isn't happening

[twilit canyon]

then another company called fantasy flight games that same year released android: netrunner

a spin-off from what i can tell

licensed under wotc

[hidden ermine]

I mean the "secret" here is

[twilit canyon]

it lasted until 2018

[hidden ermine]

Big competitive events matter very little for moving product

[twilit canyon]

in 2021 wotc renewed the license and and trademark for digital and physical netrunner products

[rigid scarab]

I got it

[twilit canyon]

btw

[rigid scarab]

To be fair this looks like it was moreso appealing to the board game market than the TCG makret

And in board games

[twilit canyon]

but in february 2022 they filed a notice of abandonment for the trademark to netrunner

[rigid scarab]

Frankly who gives a shit about being competitive

[hidden ermine]

There was overlap

But yeah Wizards just didnt want to license it out anymore

Back then the theory was they wanted to cash in on the CP2077 hype but

[rigid scarab]

I'm looking at the boxes and packs

Yeah this is very much a board game card game

[meager isle]

Isn’t edh a board game card game

[sleek ferry]

is it?

[twilit canyon]

yea and thats why its dogshit

[rigid scarab]

Bioo I'm gonna shoot you

[twilit canyon]

tbf at least with edh u get a lot of deckbuilding creativity that comes with being mtg

[meager isle]

Do it you pussy

[hidden ermine]

Eh not really?

[sleek ferry]

that's the beauty and appeal of edh regardless of playability btw

[twilit canyon]

but 90% of the time, any other board game is better than playing commander

[hidden ermine]

Its not just a magic-adjacent card game, but it is a card game

[sleek ferry]

letting your mind go wild with making a deck

from every card in mtg's history

[rigid scarab]

Imo this looks like it's about as much of a card game as Villainous is a card game

[sleek ferry]

the playing part is secondary to the deckbuilding aspect

though i feel this is true for most tcg's anyways

[twilit canyon]

ehh for edh this isnt much the case unless its cedh

[rigid scarab]

Or how Dominion is a card game

[hidden ermine]

Deckbuilding is literally the primary point of the game, how exactly is it like a boardgame?

[meager isle]

Fuck dominion

[twilit canyon]

for other magic formats yeah deckbuilding is the primary function of the game

[meager isle]

The other one too

[clever sun]

I get the argument but plenty of people plag Commander with precons

Or without any deckbuilding theory put into the construction

[hidden ermine]

I meant Netrunner

[clever sun]

It's a glorified board game

[hidden ermine]

Commander is a different story

[clever sun]

Oh

Nah it is a board game more than card game

Deckbuilding matters less than playing unlike Magic

[sleek ferry]

i would say it's even moreso for edh. in cedh we're optimizing our decks to consistently get to 1 of our win cons, in edh the players are choosing to play suboptimally for the sake of casting big bombs that would otherwise not see play, so it opens up your options more

[hidden ermine]

... that is incredibly incorrect, no offense

[sleek ferry]

now if only the casual communtiy wasnt so shit

[rigid scarab]

I haven't played Netrunner so I wouldn't know

[twilit canyon]

i would find it very hard pressed to ever match mtg in terms of deckbuilding

by any other card game

[meager isle]

Speak for yourself I play edh to counter cards and draw cards

I only win with poking you down

[twilit canyon]

magic's card pool is just bigger than any other games

[hidden ermine]

Like Netrunners deckbuilding was both incredibly important, and incredibly nuanced

[twilit canyon]

it will always win the deckbuilding bit

[hidden ermine]

In particular because of the unique limitations upon deckbuilding

[twilit canyon]

important and nuanced matters nothing if u have optimal lines to build to

limits moreso adds to this

[sleek ferry]

Deckbuilding in mtg is also much more difficult than other tcg’s imo

At least doing it well

[twilit canyon]

yea

[hidden ermine]

Yeah Netrunner never had those

[twilit canyon]

bc magic's card pool is just that much bigger

[meager isle]

Just net deck

[twilit canyon]

there absolutely was optimal lines

[hidden ermine]

Wouldnt really work in Netrunner in the first place

[meager isle]

Most decks are already solved

[sleek ferry]

Boy, I deckbuild well, I’m just poor with wild cards

[hidden ermine]

Like netdecking in magic is a fairly common thing for a reason. Netdecking in Netrunner ... really wasnt

[sleek ferry]

Somebody net decked my Dino Battles standard deck

[rigid scarab]

Wait Netrunner doesn't allow proxies

I just spent like 30 minutes arguing for nothing

[sleek ferry]

(And I lost the mirror, but let’s ignore that)

[clever sun]

You can't netdeck in Netrunner because there is no depth and no competitive scene

[hidden ermine]

... again you could not be further from the truth

Hell there is a competitive scene now, despite that whole "the game doesnt officially exist anymore"

Let alone during its prime

[clever sun]

I really have never seen anything about it or anyone discussing it

[rigid scarab]

I don't think anyone's arguing that Netrunner isn't niche

[clever sun]

No one talks about any of their formats

[rigid scarab]

But it exists

[meager isle]

Tbf this isn’t the netrunner discord

[clever sun]

I'm aware. But looking online I still can't really find much.

[meager isle]

Like go to their Reddit and I’m 100% sure you’ll find something

[hidden ermine]

Yeah

Or whatever other communities exist

[twilit canyon]

it has a reddit that i found

[hidden ermine]

I dont recall if they ever made a discord

[twilit canyon]

its not being moderated tho

they have a discord

[hidden ermine]

Plus again, if youre talking right now ... the game is "officially" discontinued for 5 years

The fact that there even is a community that continues to do things is an extreme outlier

What card game can you name that 5 years past its official shutdown date even has people still talking about it, let alone playing it?

[twilit canyon]

https://netrunnerdb.com

found a website for decklists

[meager isle]

Fire emblem

[sleek ferry]

It’s very hard to call a niche scene competitive. The couple hundreds that still play might have tournaments within themselves, but it’s hard to call it a “competitive” scene if it’s not seeing a healthy amount of new players.

[twilit canyon]

needed to dig through their reddit wiki

god that sucked

[meager isle]

Their cards are actually more expensive than before being discontinued

[hidden ermine]

By that virtue most fighting games dont have a competitive scene

[twilit canyon]

thats correct

very few fighting games have real comp scenes

its why sonicfox was rarely respected even tho they were so good

[hidden ermine]

And by "most" I mean "anything not named Tekken, Street Fighter, KoF in a good year, MK, Smash and maybe Guilty Gear"

[twilit canyon]

cus they were really good at dead games or niche games

so no one took them seriously

[hidden ermine]

Regardless, Netrunner was a really good, and in-depth game

In fact that was a part of why it was so niche

Its a lot harder to convince people to get started with a game thats as complex as Netrunner

[twilit canyon]

looking up netrunner stuff and decklists

i have a hard time seeing how this is appealing or deep

[dense berry]

i thought nobody took him seriously because he was a furry

[twilit canyon]

that too yea

but in any case this whole thing with netrunner at least for the format that i think sees most play

[hidden ermine]

Yeah looking at cards without the context of how the game works does tend to give you a poor look into a game

[twilit canyon]

its got a set list of cards legal + banlist

even called standard

with a rotation

[hidden ermine]

Yeah the LCG model kinda requires rotation sadly

Its affordable for a while, but if there are too many sets in the format, the amount you need to spend to have a deck that uses cards from across all sets becomes prohibitive

[sleek ferry]

Well he had a lot going against him from a public point of view; he was black, gay AND a furry, man had 3 different types of haters to deal with

[granite badge]

Tbf you got to have serious balls to wear a fursuit to an event like that

it gets respect in my book

[hidden ermine]

Arguably less so now since you can just use proxies but eh

[sleek ferry]

Oh and forgot the 4th

He was just really fucking good at everything he touched

[twilit canyon]

i just struggle to understand how a lot of this is deep

[sleek ferry]

People hate when you’re good at something

[twilit canyon]

its very simple deckbuilding stuff to get right

and there are seemingly correct numbers to touch upon for cards

[meager isle]

People don’t generally remember what cards exists when looking at cards

So synergies and stuff are hard

[rigid scarab]

Guys I have a feeling that Uno might have played netrunner

[meager isle]

Oh yeah?

[hidden ermine]

A couple years, yes

[dense berry]

its kinda like wearing an ahegao hoodie tbh. like sure it shows people you're not afraid of what they think but when you boil it down its just wearing your fetishes on your sleeve and making it a part of your identity can and will make it harder for people to approach you

[twilit canyon]

being a furry isnt necessarily about a fetish

[granite badge]

...I fundementally disagree with that

like ya furries can be horny under the hood but everyone can be

its not something exclusive to being one

[hidden ermine]

Ultimately I started playing less and less Netrunner just because I didnt have the time

[twilit canyon]

yes i can see why

[hidden ermine]

Locals conflicted with my schedule

[twilit canyon]

when decks have play times listed around 45 minutes or so

it isnt a fast game

[hidden ermine]

Correct

[sleek ferry]

God damn

[hidden ermine]

Well some decks were

[sleek ferry]

And I be thinking my 20 minute mtga matches are long

[granite badge]

I've been in the fandom for a few solid years and for a lot of ppl, spes minors, its mostly about lack of identity or wanting to design something that represents you better

[hidden ermine]

Anarchists had ways to rush you down sometimes

[twilit canyon]

not current meta thats for sure

[meager isle]

Isn’t it the same for flesh and blood? I debated picking it up until I learned it’s a bo1 game that can take over 40 min

[hidden ermine]

And meat damage kills can get you early too

[granite badge]

anyway that's a whole discussion ai probably shouldn't start rn

[hidden ermine]

But thats fine with me, not every card game should be fast

But yeah the fact that its a long and complex game with a myriad decision points certainly makes it inherently niche

[meager isle]

Sub 40 minutes isn’t what I call fast lol

[sleek ferry]

And now you’re our favorite birb

[twilit canyon]

i dont see how the myriad decisions come down during deckbuilding. the decks seem to build themselves. but the gameplay itself is what is complicated

hence why its called a board game

[dense berry]

not to get onto the whole thing but i do mean specifically in relation to sonicfox it was a sexual thing

[hidden ermine]

They really do not build themselves, or even remotely

Even during that time where there were two clear best IDs (their Oko incident as it were)

[meager isle]

Yea I just thought of it as an identity thing nbd

[granite badge]

like I'm ngl I have a shit ton of nsfw art but its not my entire identity and I sure as hell don't parade it around in spaces where its not wanted or needed

[dense berry]

i know that a lot of furry community is like just people who played a lot of sly cooper and shit as a kid

[hidden ermine]

Those IDs were built in a myriad different ways

[twilit canyon]

right but looking at the decklist its not bc they were built different and well

they were built different bc some ppl just dont fundamentally understand deckbuilding in card games

and built em bad

oh ig not for that timem period

for current decklists i see at least

ppl disagree on cards bc they just dont understand when a card is winmore or not

[hidden ermine]

I mean Netrunnerdb is also a community-submitted list

Its as much of a representation of competitive deckbuilding as edhrec is

[sleek ferry]

That’s just a standard in any given tcg meta. “Solving” decks usually happens towards the tail end, or after a meta is over

[twilit canyon]

i mean sure but when a single decklist same cards takes 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th at their canadian national events

event

[hidden ermine]

Like Controlling the message had a fairly standard lineup of assets (minus one or two that varied), but the ICE suite is pretty varied

[twilit canyon]

there was just 2 decks

same list

at nationals

everything else is bad brews that are playing what i can tell suboptimal picks

i dont have the full grasp yet but it really doesnt seem like most non-nats lists posted are real or competitive

[hidden ermine]

Thats a lot easier now when the game is not at its biggest

And in Canada at that

[twilit canyon]

whats wrong with canada

[hidden ermine]

But I should point out, decks being on the same list in a competitive event happens in YGO and Magic too

[twilit canyon]

[hidden ermine]

Smaller niche than the US as far as nationals go

[twilit canyon]

yes i know for ygo for sure

with magic thats also true for standard

to an extent pioneer

since card pool is smaller than other formats

but modern and up for mtg deckbuilding gets very muddy

[sleek ferry]

Eh I feel as if you have options in standard besides the 2-3 broken cards in your respective colors

[twilit canyon]

yea but good options?

not many

optimal options is what i look for

and standard has very very few of those

[hidden ermine]

I mean

When KCI was at its best

[twilit canyon]

optimal options + ratios for said options

[hidden ermine]

Im pretty sure if there was a difference between a teams KCI lists

It was like 1 or 2 cards

[twilit canyon]

probs bc kci took off and was best deck unanimously for the best players to pilot

current modern is a different beast

[hidden ermine]

Hell during SCG ... columbus at that time-ish

[twilit canyon]

remember kci was nearly 5 years ago

[hidden ermine]

Bloom Titan was all the same list

[twilit canyon]

thats half a decade

moderns card pool has had a ton more cards

[hidden ermine]

Yeah and Netrunners prime was also half a decade ago

[sleek ferry]

Also, me and you could be running the same deck and have different threat assessment on a specific matchup, making our sideboard or potentially main deck look different

[twilit canyon]

yea that just kinda further proves my point. netrunners could never have had such a deep cardpool to make its eternal formats matter compared to modern

even back during kci

there was still legit arguments that the deck was still vulnerable to phoenix as it was releasing

[meager isle]

Aren’t fans making custom netrunner cards?

[twilit canyon]

and frankly it was banned too soon is the general argument

[hidden ermine]

Yes

[twilit canyon]

but current modern is in a golden age

with brewing and deck viability

[hidden ermine]

More precisely there is a group that basically unofficially continues Netrunner

[sleek ferry]

Eh, wotc is usually not quick on the bans, so whenever they ban a card quickly I’m usually cool with it

[twilit canyon]

we cant even decide what the optimal murktide list is atm

we have splintered into 3 (4) main lists

[hidden ermine]

Consisting of players, game devs and the like

[meager isle]

Because people suck at playing it

Even wotc says so

[twilit canyon]

fair ledger shredder, fair no-shredder, turbo murko, hard control

[meager isle]

murktideless murktide

[sleek ferry]

Like in retrospect, Hullbreacher was a fine hit in commander, I rather that than fable running rampant for too long in standard

[twilit canyon]

thats (kinda) the shredder build

modern creativity is in eternal struggle on if it should actually go jund/temur/4c/5c

[hidden ermine]

Also card volume alone does not make deckbuilding, there is more to it, especially when it comes to considerations like influence and trying to figure out the exact ratio of ice and icebreakers

[twilit canyon]

card volume makes deckbuilding

the more cards you have access to, the more you can brew and tinker with

[hidden ermine]

To try and hit a sufficiently wide field without spreading yourself so thin you lose to a deck thats heavier on a specific type of ice

[lusty trench]

Cipher shut down?

[twilit canyon]

years ago now

[hidden ermine]

Plus Netrunner had the edge of not having draft chaff

On account of ... well not having draft

[twilit canyon]

lacking draft chaff is always good yes but that still doesnt match to the modern-playable card pool

[hidden ermine]

Theres cards for Johnnys of course, as there always are, but its a more concentrated amount of good cards relative to other card games

[fallow citrus]

yeah cipher has been dead for ages because of FEH I think

it actually blows those cards looked so nice

I think there's a sim floating around to be able to play it

[hidden ermine]

But yeah, Netrunner was/is a great game

I wanna pick it up again sometime, but my brain is a tad fried rn

[twilit canyon]

from what im reading the gameplay itself seems decent if a bit long

but the deckbuilding doesnt look that difficult

at least for current format

[hidden ermine]

I cant speak to the current format

Ive been out of the game a bit

But back when I was still playing, despite half of worlds being on NBN + Anarchy

The decks were largely different

[meager isle]

Can confirm they do.

Sitting in my binder looking nice at least

[fallow citrus]

I have a single Lucina a friend gave me when they bought a box

[meager isle]

I use one as an adventurer token lol

[clever sun]

I went down the Netrunner deep dive

I did judge it too harshly but I'm not gonna lie it is a dead game

[glad peak]

Netrunner’s fun but if people hate powerful staples then this is not the game for them

[hidden ermine]

I mean its less dead than a game that officially is shut down could be

But yes, the fact that Wizards didnt renew the license hurt the game a lot

Worst part is that we still dont know why they did that

Originally the rumour was cashing in on CP2077 hype but nothing materialised there

Some suggested its because Wizards are owned by Hasbro and FFG by Asmodee and its because of that but idk if thats a very logical thing to do

[glad peak]

I remember one rumor was a netrunner secret lair in kamigawa

Which wouldn’t make sense to discontinue

But that was one of the rumors of all time

[hidden ermine]

I mean that one is just silly

But yeah its still confusing to me, and its a real shame

NISEI has done a good job keeping it updated still but without the backing of an actual company its even more niche than it ever was

[glad peak]

And a big suggestion was that wizards was bringing back the old netrunner game

[hidden ermine]

Yeah thats the cashing in on 2077 hype rumour I mentioned

But nothing came of that

Dont think well ever know either

[twilit canyon]

yea from what i saw

they renewed the trademark and license back in 2021

then promptly dropped it in 2022

i think wotc just has no idea how they can further support the game

[hidden ermine]

Well they renewed the license for themselves in 2021 but

They didnt ... do anything with it?

I dont believe there was anything they were working on at that point either

Like no Wizards relaunch was in the works as far as we know

[twilit canyon]

right thats what i mean

[hidden ermine]

So yeah, weird

Its a shame, but it is what it is

[twilit canyon]

they may have considered it briefly

but then ultimately they ended up not doing anything and dropped the trademark back in 2022

[hidden ermine]

Possible, though the timing is weird

Like in 2021 CP2077 already flopped

[twilit canyon]

but the anime in the works was insanely successful

[hidden ermine]

What made them consider trying it, and then not do it after all

Yeah but that one came out like

... 2022?

[twilit canyon]

yeah

i think they realized since cp2077 flopped on release

[hidden ermine]

So in 2021 the IP didnt exactly have good connotations

So why renew the license then?

[twilit canyon]

they wouldnt have enough time to rework netrunner or make proper releases for it

[hidden ermine]

Itd make more sense if it was in 2020, unless it just takes time

[twilit canyon]

it probably took time

[hidden ermine]

Idk how long the process of license renewal is tbh

[twilit canyon]

to get the license renewed

its pretty lengthy

they also might not have been sure they wanted to do so

[hidden ermine]

Either way, it is what it is

Btw do we know when theyre gonna reveal the dr. who cards?

[zinc shard]

Drawing 3 cards per turn is pretty good in limited

[rigid scarab]

I liked Command Zone being transparent about

"Yeah this precon really isn't good"

Just gained a ton of respect for them

[zinc shard]

they were also critical of the Walking Dead Secret Lair.

good to know that even though they're sponsored they'll still tell the trith

[rigid scarab]

They did a "best of" video at the start of the year

Basically documenting all the times they fucked up

[atomic harness]

[glad peak]

slicer staple, totally edh staple

[atomic harness]

[dense berry]

garbage tbh

also superfluous "and"

tut tut wotc

[sudden lava]

eldrazzi today

[meager isle]

Watch the only value be wastes

[sudden lava]

https://www.youtube.com/@loadingreadyrun/videos

will be here when it drops

[golden plover]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/a-tale-of-a-non-tournament-legal-counterspell

What???

"Future Secret Lairs might include non-playable playtest cards"

If they're in a lair and officially distributed just make them legal??

Your bonus card can now be a card you literally cannot use

[sleek ferry]

I mean if it's just the bonus cards, that's not terrible ig

[golden plover]

Historically the bonus card has literally always been a card you can actually play

[sleek ferry]

putting in an unplayable card in the actual secret lair would be more outrageous

[golden plover]

It's super fucking weird to make the bonus card something you can't use

Might as well just cut the bonus card slot then

Also, this feels like an excuse to print proxies of duals or the power 9 or whatever in secret lairs to make people value hunt them?

[sleek ferry]

that would actually not be terrible?

[golden plover]

Maybe? But it's weird for wotc to try and sell official proxies, especially if they're cutting a slot from SLs for them

[sleek ferry]

If they were to get around the reserved list in that way, you just made commander much more accessible

and would actually give us an excuse to buy secret lairs

[golden plover]

Absolutely not tho, considering the rare bonus cards go for like $100-$400

Like before Stained Glass Liliana got a reprint, she was in like 1 in 100ish secret lairs

She was $200ish

And even stuff like extended border sliver hive is super rare compared to the other slivers

I can't see them making the duals or moxen or whatever anything other than super hard to find, with most lairs being a bolt or counterspell

I guess we'll have to see what lairs they insert these in and what value

But it feels like a weird attempt to go "but a lair you weren't gonna buy for the chance at a dual"

[merry owl]

feelstimmyman

[meager isle]

Damn most of these seem good?

Ignoring the ludicrous cmc of course

Do we know what rocks are in the precon?

[zinc shard]

watching the vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHeLpN0k7WQ

it has Forsaken Monument

Mind Stone
Ornithopter of Paradise
Paladium Myr
Sol Ring
Thought Vessel
Thran Dynamo
Unstable Obelisk
Worn Powerstone

[meager isle]

Thanks

They seem..

Okay I guess?

[lusty trench]

And thus we have the total

0/4 decks worth the money

[zinc shard]

yup. these feel like regular precons that they jacked the price up for... reasons

[sudden lava]

ooh card time

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1020928983883325522/1131634894368415874/z324k532j5db1.png?width=700&height=967

theres the adamant

oh and its land destruction

[meager isle]

If they’re spending 7 mana to destroy a land I say they deserve to

Err exile

[sudden lava]

Not "a land", up to 3 lands

assuming 4 players

[meager isle]

I’m fine with my opponents losing lands

[sudden lava]

and they get to cheat some big odd thing onto the battlefield

[meager isle]

The only thing I can think of is Void winnower

Which granted is a pain and a half

But like that isn’t happening often

Is Void even in this precon?

[lusty trench]

No

[meager isle]

This is literally a Void winnower card

[golden plover]

Wow this is the most Timmy precon I've ever seen

[sudden lava]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1020928983883325522/1131634895349895288/eww6aae5j5db1.png?width=707&height=965

art alone makes this a friend

[zinc shard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B47VNdImCy4

Speaking of Commander

[sudden lava]

Stranger Things reference

[stark skiff]

Magic noob but those Eldrazzi cards look like fun.

[lusty trench]

Eldrazi stuff seems fine, you'll likely get hated out of games before you do anything though

[rigid scarab]

This is honestly fine

[golden plover]

I mean, I dunno?

[rigid scarab]

Colourless cards go great in my Peregrine Dynamo deck

[golden plover]

I'd rather it be a card you can actually use

[rigid scarab]

You were almost never buying Secret Lairs for the competitive edge anyways

It was almost always because you thought the cards looked neat

[golden plover]

For sure, but sometimes the bonus cards were a nice addition to a deck

[rigid scarab]

Secret Lairs were already the product line where Wizards is most justified in saying 'not for you'

No one is reasonably expected to buy every single secret lair

[golden plover]

Like for a while, the bonus cards for any lair that didn't have one in mind was a WAR stained glass walker

[rigid scarab]

I view these like I view the playtest cards in Mystery Booster

[golden plover]

So getting stuff like Tef or Bolas was cool

[rigid scarab]

Just neat little additions

[meager isle]

War cards are actually good so that seems a bit unfair

[rigid scarab]

Like I get it that we're on a WOTC hate train

But this is not something worth putting energy in

Like are you honestly gonna be boycotting Un-sets

[golden plover]

I mean it's not like the worst, it's just dumb to make the slot in your secret lair a card you literally cannot use anywhere

[meager isle]

I’m already boycotting secret lair I don’t like

[golden plover]

Obviously you don't buy SLs for the bonus card. But if you bought a lair and got a cool walker or something, you could slot it in a deck

If you get a proxy counterspell, you cant

[rigid scarab]

Equating this to M30 "Legalise proxies" is very silly

[golden plover]

Oh no, these are very much in the same boat as M30 proxies

[dense berry]

im 100% convinced hasbro has just realized the bubble will never pop and they're just constantly pushing it more and more because boycotts are the best thing possible for sales when it comes to a product thats too big and too rooted into a private economy to fail

[golden plover]

At least with M30 proxies you had to go out of your way to buy them

[sleek ferry]

that eldrazi precon might sell out immediately

[meager isle]

At $120?

[sleek ferry]

almost all those new cards are good

[meager isle]

Maybe?

[rich bronze]

Ehhhh

Maybe

[sleek ferry]

at $80

[meager isle]

Who’s selling it for 80

[rigid scarab]

Whether the bonus card is good or not does not change your mind at all at whether or not you're buying it

[golden plover]

Now instead of getting proxies because you paid for proxies, you'll get a proxy in place of a real card

[rigid scarab]

It has no stakes in your purchase

[golden plover]

I mean it definitely did for a couple lairs

[rich bronze]

€96 on cardmarket

So I doubt it’s going for 80 anywhere

[golden plover]

But also, the bonus card has a specific word in there that matters

Card

[dense berry]

get a ps5 or order this years commander precons and get 150 dollars worth of cardboard total hmmm

[rich bronze]

Actually 105 lowest

Lol

[golden plover]

The proxies aren't cards

Like I play with proxies a lot

But if I want proxies, I'm buying proxies

[rich bronze]

Imagine buying anything but singles

[golden plover]

If I open a secret lair and instead of a card, I get a proxy for a $0.25 card, that's gonna suck

[rigid scarab]

It's literally just a neat bonus. If you're taking a stance against these you're also gonna be taking a stance on Mystery Booster playtest cards

And to an extent, Un-cards

[golden plover]

The playtest cards weren't replacing a card

Neither are un cards

You knew going into both products you'd get cards that aren't legal

[rich bronze]

[[$city of ass]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/unh/134/city-of-ass

Prices for City of Ass

Unhinged

$21.65 • €8.96

[golden plover]

These are cutting a card from a $30-$50 product that's already only 3-5 cards and replacing it with a proxy

[dense berry]

why are you thinking about this so much you should just consume

[rich bronze]

Some un cards are worth something!

[golden plover]

It's just weird to put official proxies in a random product and then go "well you can't use them anywhere"

[dense berry]

its called stoking the flames

all publicity is good publicity

they want the community to talk about their products

[rich bronze]

Also a NM foil city of ass is €340+

Damn

Would you rather have the precons or a NM foil city of ass

[golden plover]

It's totally also so that they can make the chase lair cards be the duals or power 9 or whatever and have people buy a ton of lairs for the off chance they get a moxen proxy

[rigid scarab]

I mean I guess?? I just don't see how it's worth putting energy into a product line that already has a poor track record of being worth the money

[golden plover]

Oh I've already been super hit or miss on lairs lately, but it's just a super weird decision to effectively cut the bonus card from lairs

These are as legal of game pieces as the "thank you for buying" cards that come in the envelope

[dense berry]

secret lairs are for the madlads who would pay 40 usd for 35 cents worth of card board anyway

[rich bronze]

How much was the total value of the dog lair cards again

In the cheapest printing

Like a few bucks

They sold great tho

[golden plover]

There's been some super good lairs tbh

Few and far between, but there's been lairs worth $100ish plus

[sleek ferry]

the dog and cat ones both sold great

and were beautiful art wise

[golden plover]

But most are "Here's $10 of cards"

[dense berry]

theyre all gonna sell great

[rigid scarab]

I mean yeah? WOTC has been pretty clear about its stance on proxied cards anyways

[rich bronze]

secret lair countermagic when
FoW FoN FD Flusterstorm and PoN

[rigid scarab]

Just don't use them in sanctioned tournaments and you're fine

And lots of sanctioned LGS's don't mind proxies anyways

[golden plover]

You also can't use them at your LGS in official events

Most commander nights are official events

[rich bronze]

Price it at $129.99 or something

They’d still print money

[golden plover]

A lot of LGSes look the other way on that one, but that's technically the rules

[rich bronze]

And the cards would be somewhat more affordable

[rigid scarab]

I mean

[dense berry]

i think people dont realize they sold out of the 1000 dollar proxy packs

[rigid scarab]

That rule is about as enforced as how governments enforce jaywalking

Lots of people just don't care

Just don't them at like

[meager isle]

If someone reports it wotc will be more serious

They definitely enforce it if they see it

[rich bronze]

Who tf would snitch

[rigid scarab]

A Magic Con or something

[meager isle]

Losers

[rigid scarab]

Or any high tier event

And you're fine

[dense berry]

they will succeed with literally any product because there are people who are unfortunately much more rich than they are smart

and hasbro wants to feed on them

or theyre not rich but theyre willing to ruin their lives for bad priorities

[golden plover]

Yeah if someone reports it, stores can lose their LGS status

[twilit canyon]

and addicts

ppl are addicted to cardboard crack

[rich bronze]

I wonder ware M30 packs a good investment

[dense berry]

yup always got some addicts

[rich bronze]

how much are they going for

[twilit canyon]

i cant say off the top

[rich bronze]

They cost $1100 and let’s say interest rates make the break even point $1200

Are they that much yet

[golden plover]

Also, damn they really were 0/4 on these precons lmao

Absolutely not worth the asking price for any of them

[twilit canyon]

i see unopened packs going for 365$

[rich bronze]

955 euros

Nope

Didn’t break even

[twilit canyon]

the 1100$ one was the 4 pack bundle

so (slight) profit atm

[rich bronze]

They’re 955 on cardmarket

So no real profit

[twilit canyon]

lol wait is it more expensive to buy single magic 30 packs?

i see em at 365 on tcgplayer

[rich bronze]

Although

[dense berry]

its all in trading

[rich bronze]

$1300ish sold on TCGplayer

[twilit canyon]

with a listed market price of 373

[rich bronze]

So they’re doing ok

[dense berry]

the best selling singular card is mox emerald

with 1 sale

[rich bronze]

So basically people shifting boxes to one another

[dense berry]

yup

[golden plover]

Pretty much

[rich bronze]

hot potato

[twilit canyon]

yea i believe that

[golden plover]

The opened cards don't sell lmao

They have listed prices on tcgplayer but no one has bought a proxy for $1000

[dense berry]

the madlads who bought it initially are the only ones who will buy it later go figure

its almost like the demand never increased

[twilit canyon]

you say this

[rich bronze]

Id rather save up another $1200 and buy a real mox pearl

Or something

[twilit canyon]

u know damn well thats not true

[twilit canyon]

for double that price u can get any other moxen except sapphire iirc

yea

[rich bronze]

Yeah in HP I guess

[twilit canyon]

just about

and yea

[rich bronze]

The only P9 I’m interested in is twister

[twilit canyon]

lp moxen are insanely rare and expensive

[rigid scarab]

Doesn't this also have Mystic Forge and new Kozilek

[rich bronze]

[[$null rod]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod

Prices for Null Rod

Vintage Masters

6.62 TIX

Weatherlight

$67.82 • €48.95 • 17.20 TIX

[golden plover]

One funny thing from the SL proxy shit is that it might be REALLY funny when they put the moxen in the SLs and these prices get WAY worse

[zinc shard]

Yeah was just listing manarocks

[rich bronze]

Surprisingly cheap

Tbh

For a very good RL card

I think weatherlight had a high print run

[meager isle]

[[null rod]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod

Null Rod <:mana2:292901509060886528>

Artifact
Activated abilities of artifacts can't be activated.
Gerrard: "But it doesn't do anything!" Hanna: "No—it does nothing."

[rigid scarab]

Eldrazi Precon actually might be worth the price

[rich bronze]

I play it in yuriko tempo

[meager isle]

This is a rl card?

[rich bronze]

but it has plenty of uses

[rich bronze]

Yeah

[golden plover]

Ehh sorta. Technically it's worth it based on the price of the individual cards at presale prices

But a lot of them will probably drop and it's not particularly a good deck either

[rich bronze]

I love the flavor text

[golden plover]

Like it's $150 rn and $50 of that is the face commander

And you know for a fact he's not gonna be $50 when the decks come out

[rigid scarab]

"Anyone not proxying after Magic 30 deserves to be taken advantage of"

Thoughts

[rich bronze]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

proxy if you want

use real cards if you want

don’t make it a moral position to do one or the other

Because you’ll sound like an annoying man child

[glad peak]

Tbh just proxy when you’re not in an official setting to save money and don’t proxy when you’re literally forced not to

[rich bronze]

I like playing with real cards because I have more of an attachment to the deck that way

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rigid scarab]

What if you simply don't like using proxies

[rich bronze]

If you don’t need/want that then go ahead

[golden plover]

If you wanna use the real cards go ahead

If you wanna use proxies, go ahead

[glad peak]

Just get better card quality through a proxy website

[golden plover]

Honestly this lmao

[fallow citrus]

mpc card quality is goated

[rich bronze]

you’re sounding like the aforementioned manchildren rn /:

[golden plover]

MPC card quality is almost identical

[glad peak]

Yeah mpc card quality is surprisingly good for a proxy service

I sound like a manchild for advocating for people to play what they want without worrying about buying? Weird

[rich bronze]

“Just do x bro” people know about x if they wanted to do x they’d do it

[rigid scarab]

It's a difference between

[rich bronze]

/:

[golden plover]

Honestly tho, there's basically no official support for paper magic now. And formats like legacy, vintage, and edh are WAY too expensive otherwise

[rigid scarab]

Recommending something and telling something

[golden plover]

So there's basically no reason not to proxy

[rich bronze]

yep

[fallow citrus]

I mean if you don't like proxies don't play with them

it's as shrimple as that

[golden plover]

Yup. Don't like proxies? Don't use them

But I also don't like it when people complain and get annoyed that people are using proxies

Like fuck you, I'm not buying a bazaar of Baghdad

[rich bronze]

yea but don’t try using proxies as some sort of superior moral position

[rigid scarab]

The previous statement was moreso

"Don't like proxies? Bum."

[golden plover]

[[$Bazaar of Baghdad]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/vma/294/bazaar-of-baghdad

Prices for Bazaar of Baghdad

Vintage Masters

0.54 TIX

Masters Edition III

4.06 TIX

Arabian Nights

$2,798.99 • €1,710.00

[rich bronze]

YEP

[glad peak]

It’s also mostly aimed at people who complain about people using proxies and people who are worried about not being able to play because they don’t have the real cards

[golden plover]

As long as you're not telling other people they can't use proxies, you're totally cool

[dense berry]

30th ed has opened the door for a lot of players to consider proxying. the community this year has become so much warmer to the idea. there are still issues like lgses being unable to allow proxies in tournaments without risking their contract with wotc. unfortunately this to me spells the death of the LGS eventually since gradually players will more more towards independently hosted tournaments

[golden plover]

Remember the classic mark rosewater post

[dense berry]

maro is a good guy

he is unfortunately not the voice of wotc

[golden plover]

(This is totally out of context btw)

This was about transformers cards

But it came off as an "official" endorsement of proxies

[dense berry]

he didnt even know what a box of 30th looked like

the guy is likely the last bastion of sanity in the design team

[golden plover]

I do think MaRo is a good guy who is forced to defend some bad decisions from higher ups, yeah

Like you can tell that a lot of the time when he's asked about a bad wotc decision, his response is "Yeah, we decided it was for the best" or whatever

Wait what was the colorless Ikoria Apex?

I thought Gavin said one of the new cards was an Ikoria guy

Did he mean Skittering Cicada?

[twilit canyon]

plenty of good folk on the design team

[rigid scarab]

Yeah

Don't put any flak on the design team

It's almost always the higher ups

[dense berry]

shareholders are the worst

[fallow citrus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfcNRjUdjg

[dense berry]

what about affinity

[fallow citrus]

what about affinity

it's only one bo3

[dense berry]

i mean if they unbanned atog and cranial then affinity is just as broken if not more

[fallow citrus]

well yeah

but those are the decks they picked

[rich bronze]

WHY ISNT IT 7

WHY

FUCK WOTC

[zinc shard]

whoevers uploading the lists to MTG Goldfish must be on a lunch break

nevermind it's up now

[stark skiff]

Are there any more decks we are missing

[lusty trench]

Nope that's all 4

[stark skiff]

Dang I actually want to buy 3 out of the 4 . Just never got into the Planeswalker mechanic.

[sudden lava]

nah thats all 4

next precons on the reveal list

oh just realized how far we away from october

august is next month, not october

[golden plover]

Do we get a month break from reveals??

Crazy

Ehh, I'm sure they'll throw some SLs in there or something

[twilit canyon]

eldraine

[rigid scarab]

That's $240

[merry owl]

i don't see anything that justifies the $80 price tag, would've gotten the eldrazi precon at $40

[rigid scarab]

$40 would have been insane value for the eldrazi precon

[sleek ferry]

I looked back at the eldrazi precon, it has very good reprints

[fallow citrus]

what's notable in it

[golden plover]

It's got a couple expensive cards, but nothing more than like 2 $20 cards

[sleek ferry]

Forsaken Monument, Kaldra Compleat, It that betrays, all is Dust, Arcane Lighthouse and I’m only like 40% through the vid

[golden plover]

It's got [[It that Betrays]] as the money card

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ddp/43/it-that-betrays

It That Betrays <:mana12:292901508838850560>

Creature — Eldrazi
Annihilator 2 (Whenever this creature attacks, defending player sacrifices two permanents.)
Whenever an opponent sacrifices a nontoken permanent, put that card onto the battlefield under your control.
Your pleas for death shall go unheard.
11/11

[sleek ferry]

Have to also note half the cards in the precon are insane

New cards*

[golden plover]

Ehh all the new cards read super Timmy

[fallow citrus]

what's the new stuff?

[sleek ferry]

It that betrays had 1 printing prior to this and it was the duel decks, so it’s a good reprint

[fallow citrus]

haven't really been paying attention to cmm recently because all I've heard is complaining

[golden plover]

The alternate commander is okay, and the Emrakul card is cool (although it's weird she's not in it)

[lusty trench]

Emrakul card?

Rise of the eldrazi?

[sleek ferry]

@fallow citrus start here

[fallow citrus]

thanks

[golden plover]

The new guy is part of her brood

[sleek ferry]

I got to say, I love the archaics

[golden plover]

Flayer of Loyalty

https://preview.redd.it/ccwnuav3j5db1.png?auto=webp&s=903d6ef3ee7427c6d639fa867d1572f0601b290c

[lusty trench]

Ah

[golden plover]

It's like 1 of 3 Emrakul brood cards in the entire game

[lusty trench]

Seems okay, I like that the effect is on cast

[fallow citrus]

desecrate reality is a cool card

also the alt commander seems like they would be neat if they could be added to hardened scales

alas modern is not legacy

[sleek ferry]

Dark steel monolith is probably a commander staple for the foreseeable future

At least in artifact decks

[fallow citrus]

yeah that is a preeetty decent card

[sleek ferry]

Let’s see do we finally have an Oswald wincon

[[oswald fiddlebender]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/afr/28/oswald-fiddlebender

Oswald Fiddlebender <:mana1:292901508373282827><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Gnome Artificer
Magical Tinkering — , , Sacrifice an artifact: Search your library for an artifact card with mana value equal to 1 plus the sacrificed artifact's mana value, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle. Activate only as a sorcery.
"Can't see this airship crashing in the near future. Sturdy as a rock."
2/2

[golden plover]

I dunno. 7 mana doesn't really do it

7 mana to play what free?

It's a fine card for big colorless things, but what are we cheating out?

[sleek ferry]

Good question

I will figure that out later

[golden plover]

By the time you've paid the 7 for it, you should have your wincons

[sleek ferry]

Well you wouldn’t be paying 7

Ideally you would be cheating it out

[golden plover]

All I can think of is Aeon's Torn and she's banned

[sleek ferry]

[[void winnower]] for free ig

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/17/void-winnower

Void Winnower <:mana9:292901508826005504>

Creature — Eldrazi
Your opponents can't cast spells with even mana values. (Zero is even.)
Your opponents can't block with creatures with even mana values.
"Have you ever seen a world fall to its knees? Watch, and learn." —Ob Nixilis
11/9

[golden plover]

See that doesn't win you the game tho

[sleek ferry]

It prevents your opponents from thoracling at least

[fallow citrus]

colourless prison using that sounds funny but not great

[sleek ferry]

I like how ugin’s mastery and the alt commander are support for that one manifest commander from the 2018 precon was it?

Oh kozilek is in the precon

That’s neat

Mirage Mirror reprint also

[rigid scarab]

Timmy doesn't mean bad

[sleek ferry]

Mystic Forge which was still sitting around $2

[fallow citrus]

mystic forge the ultimate aspiringspike card

[glad peak]

Woo more pieces for cedh battlethopter stax

And/or kinnan

[sudden lava]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5w-IrRRi9M&ab_channel=TheCommander'sQuarters

[glad peak]

Tbh Omarthis is kinda interesting but wouldn’t call it the best

[sudden lava]

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8e04ed179303d5c007b1b7b31c8eb45b3c6ee96b4701e0c79e57b6ed4869d735.jpg

we have another set to go through before The Doctor

[fallow citrus]

very pretty art

[twilit canyon]

eldraine art goes haed

*hard

[sudden lava]

next commander precons

[twilit canyon]

we know. we saw this already.

[sudden lava]

hoping this has some cool mechanics, otherwise

[lusty trench]

Me when green and white are doing the green and white mechanic again

Please something other than +1+1 counters please I beg you you can't be this creatively bankrupt

[sleek ferry]

Yeah anytime you see green and white

It’s already a red flag

[golden plover]

It'll be tokens then

[glad peak]

No, it’s a green and white flag

[golden plover]

monkeys paw

Oh wait it says "buff your creatures"

[sleek ferry]

It will be counters AND tokens

[golden plover]

Yup, it's fucking +1/+1 counters

[sleek ferry]

Quick find me the most unique Selesnya commanders

[glad peak]

Unironically

[[Gaddock teeg]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/uma/199/gaddock-teeg

Gaddock Teeg <:manag:292901508654301185><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Creature — Kithkin Advisor
Noncreature spells with mana value 4 or greater can't be cast.
Noncreature spells with in their mana costs can't be cast.
So great are his wisdom and spirit that many who have met him say that they stood before a giant of a man and talked to the wisest of the four winds.
2/2

[glad peak]

Almost everything else is lifegain, tokens, or counters

[lusty trench]

Nah they can't do that, that'll mean they have to print the good token stuff

That's saved for sets they want to sell

[fallow citrus]

I know it won't happen but I'm getting really tired of this and this CMM set has really exacerbated this

can we have a talk about MTG without having to include wotc bad

[lusty trench]

This a request as a mod or personally

Cause it's getting harder and harder to remove wotc greed from product announcement discussions

[fallow citrus]

personally

yes I understand wotc is doing bad things

but this is getting in the way of like actually talking about magic

and you could complain 2000 times here and it will never matter because you're literally only preaching to the choir

but I'll leave it at that

[lusty trench]

I mean I understand that, but especially with this set which has a ridiculously inflated price tag, whenever a card is announced or reprinted, the most conversation you'll probably get is "oh I like this card, will put it in xyz" and most of the time it ends there

Other than talking about the price tag

Which is something everyone has an opinion on

Regardless of however many times it's brought up

It's not that people are saying it because it's well known, it's because it gets a conversation going

[fallow citrus]

Yes and it's one of the least interesting conversations ever because everyone agrees that wizards prices badly and that the new set shouldn't be what it is

company that makes money off of gambling lowers odds on you making money from opening product and makes some products not worth opening

[lusty trench]

But then once that initial conversation is over, it diverges into other conversations

Not all the time but a lot of the time

Because the initial conversation garnered an audience

[fallow citrus]

I think so far the only divergence from the original topic was earlier talking about proxies from what I've seen

it's just not a topic that carries itself very far

[lusty trench]

No magic related topic is TBF especially as this is a niche location to talk about it, but the only other conversations I see happening here is people posting spoilers and people just saying "this card good, this card bad" or two people talking to each other about a format or a deck and only those two people

[fallow citrus]

yeah it would be nice if people actually talked more thoroughly about decklists and playing the game and such

[sleek ferry]

Why is Hammer Time the best deck? Because it fucks the One Ring and wins on t2-t3

[glad peak]

But it isn’t

[sleek ferry]

[fallow citrus]

I wish it were I love stoneforge mystic

which also makes me wish esper blink was still a good deck

[lusty trench]

Beeg hammer is always funny

[glad peak]

I can’t remember which one of the goblin welder cards were legal in modern

[sleek ferry]

I saw 1 of the latest topping lists maining 1 [[forge anew]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/17/forge-anew

Forge Anew <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Enchantment
When Forge Anew enters the battlefield, return target Equipment card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
As long as it's your turn, you may activate equip abilities any time you could cast an instant.
You may pay rather than pay the equip cost of the first equip ability you activate during each of your turns.

[glad peak]

But one of those dump something then forge anew is good

[fallow citrus]

I think forge anew is just quirky

[lusty trench]

Forge anew is one of those cards that reads better than it is

[glad peak]

Yeah everyone I’ve seen with forge anew was immediately removed in the next event people played in

Meanwhile the one ring is one of those cards that plays better than it reads

[lusty trench]

As it turns out, a scaling draw engine that doesn't punish you the turn you draw and pro everything is good

[glad peak]

I’m more surprised that murktide players once thought Spyro was bad except in grindy games as a draw card and now they’re running Spyro to beat what might be the best draw engine in the game rather than playing it themselves

[fallow citrus]

I mean murktide players can't even decide if they want to keep murktide in their decks so it's no wonder

[lusty trench]

Tideless tide

[fallow citrus]

tideless tide is just fair breach

[glad peak]

Yep they’re now removing ledger shredder in favor of 4th murky and Spyro

[fallow citrus]

hm

an interesting choice

[copper pecan]

played rusko for the first time

i understand why people like this deck now

it's super fun

[sleek ferry]

[[rusko]]

[lost widget]

Multiple cards match “rusko”, can you be more specific?

[copper pecan]

[[rusko the clockmaker]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/ybro/24/rusko-clockmaker

Rusko, Clockmaker <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338><:manab:292901508872273920>

Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
When Rusko, Clockmaker enters the battlefield, conjure a card named Midnight Clock onto the battlefield.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put an hour counter on each permanent you control named Midnight Clock. Each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
3/3

[copper pecan]

i drew into 7 lands in a row and still managed to win

[atomic harness]

y bro?? pog

[copper pecan]

you draw so much and can combo off super hard

[atomic harness]

Dimir artificer

[sleek ferry]

You invoked REN’s favorite color; black

[atomic harness]

oh but it's blue D:

I like esper azorious dimir orzhov p much

[twilit canyon]

rusko is so fucking goated

[atomic harness]

midnight goat

[twilit canyon]

u have to navitage orcish bowmasters a bit

but its managable

[atomic harness]

[[midnight clock]]

[lost widget]

https://scryfall.com/card/clb/727/midnight-clock

Midnight Clock <:mana2:292901509060886528><:manau:292901508754702338>

Artifact
: Add .
: Put an hour counter on Midnight Clock.
At the beginning of each upkeep, put an hour counter on Midnight Clock.
When the twelfth hour counter is put on Midnight Clock, shuffle your hand and graveyard into your library, then draw seven cards. Exile Midnight Clock.

[atomic harness]

oh right like youve to have smth for orcish on 12?