BRO was okay, but not great
#Magic the Gathering
atomic harness
Neo 
lusty trench
Lotr draft is just hope the people next to you don't know mardu is king
glad peak
Mom was kind of pretty good
glad peak
ONE turned out to be much less bomb heavy than people expected but sometimes it just came down to a bomb
golden plover
Like cool, good job on pulling your Ragavan and Urabrask
glad peak
I didn’t really like dmu draft since it wanted you to play 5c with horrible fixing
lusty trench
Dear lord the additional colour kicker
Pisses me off in draft, pisses me off in commander
golden plover
Yeah the additional color kicker was bad
glad peak
That being said, a dmu cube with actual good fixing is pretty fun (albeit 5c soup vs 5c soup)
copper pecan
additional color kicker was good you cowards
lusty trench
I actually feel pain every time I see this card
Cause I'd actually like to use it
why the fuck did they tack on life gain kicker
copper pecan
you don't need to kick it
lusty trench
I meant for colour identity
lusty trench
UB shouldn’t be modern legal
- Average reprieve/one ring victim
meager isle
Eh reprieve isn’t a ub card honestly
rich bronze
UB shouldn’t be modern legal
Actually I’d be down for a UB crossover with Yugioh
would be fun
rich bronze
Eh reprieve isn’t a ub card honestly
Agreed
golden plover
Honestly I still really would have preferred UB stuff be opt in as opposed to opt out
But I get that doesn't make them money
glad peak
Why can’t your deck play the one ring?
golden plover
Still don't like it but some of the designs are cute I guess
glad peak
If you play creativity I have no remorse for you not being able to play the ring
rich bronze
Why can’t your deck play the one ring?
You guessed it
glad peak
Good, suffer with not being able to play the ring 
rich bronze
Why do people hate creativity
glad peak
I don’t really hate it but leaning onto hating it is funny
rich bronze
We’re literally trying to resolve a 4-5 mana sorcery to pull a big beater or two
and win with that
glad peak
It’s usually t3feri we hate
rich bronze
yeah the accompanying cards can be annoying
W6 into T3feri into archon T4
Can be hard to interact with
TBF I’ve always considered creativity to be a midrange deck that happens to play a one card combo
I think that’s the fairest description of the deck
between fable and wrenn we do just have great card quality
rich bronze
Actually I’d be down for a UB crossover with Yugioh
Seriously tho id buy the shit out of this
Would likely be as huge as the LOTR set
copper pecan
there's no way they're going to give their biggest competitor advertising like that
rich bronze
there's no way they're going to give their biggest competitor advertising like t...
Eh, idk about competitor
at this point
each has its own audience and it’s differentiated well enough
twilit canyon
twilit canyon
also bloodbraid elf is there
real??
sleek ferry
Wait
We’re getting UB FF?
If we don’t get FF9 or FFT characters, I’m boycotting the product
golden plover
If we don’t get FF9 or FFT characters, I’m boycotting the product
Tactics probably not. 9 could go either way
sleek ferry
They’re both 2 of the top 5 games in the series
For the love of whoever you pray for, don’t give us like 10 different cloud/sephiroth cards
golden plover
You know it's gonna be 10 clouds and whatnot
sleek ferry
Like Vivi is prob an auto include, he’s what you immediately think of when you think of the words “black mage”
And that transcends ff lore
lusty trench
If I see someone using ffX cards I'm gonna ask if they know about X-3
copper pecan
they can't just not include vivi, he's the leader of the shadow wizard money gang
twilit canyon
last glen
Sun Aunt?
twilit canyon
sun titan
glad peak
Tita 
twilit canyon
[[sun titan]]
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twilit canyon
tita
copper pecan
la creatura - gigante...
clever sun
zinc shard
This set better have a haybale card that gives you hexproof for a turn
golden plover
How the fuck are they gonna prevent everything from being dimir tho?
Actually I guess Connor will be Jeskai
twilit canyon
oh sweet voice of resurgence
anyhow these additions really dont feel like they matter for explorer as much as they do for historic
drs + canopy lands + fabled passage?
that might be enough fuel for the fire
chord of calling sees like 0 pioneer play
but historic yawgmoth?
absolutely into it
that might push the deck to tier 1
every card here so far is gas
trail anvil
I thought chord of calling was used in something
twilit canyon
except for inferno titan
twilit canyon
I thought chord of calling was used in something
maybe?
maybe a dogshit pioneer deck?
yawgmoth is a real historic deck already
chord is the card for the deck in modern
trail anvil
ic
also is frost titan not pretty bad either?
maybe I'm underestimating tapping lands
sleek ferry
I am so down for explorer after this
Give me another format besides standard not plagued with the one ring on arena
twilit canyon
inferno titan isnt the worst too im mostly dunking on it
the decks it has been used in though? they dont exist anymore
frost titan is not bad just has no home in other formats
hmmm im wondering if frost or grave titan have homes in historic
sleek ferry
[[frost titan]]
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Creature — Giant
Whenever Frost Titan becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter that spell or ability unless its controller pays 
.
Whenever Frost Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, tap target permanent. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
6/6
twilit canyon
grave titan might be great in the side of mono-back stronghold/nykthos ramp
frost titan might just be kinda scewed still sadly
great card for cube
sleek ferry
[[grave Titan]]
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twilit canyon
i know i will be trying inferno titan in mono-red nykthos
and prime titan in mono-green nykthos
should give us room for tech lands in that deck
dense berry
tooth and nail huh
dense berry
twilit canyon
i was gonna say actually we are just missing emrakul
but we have emrakul
not aeons torn
dense berry
ya any super fatty works
twilit canyon
but 13/13 becoming 26/26 is still often a kill
call me crazy tho
but
i think u just go atraxa
dense berry
hmm possible
twilit canyon
your tooth and nail will already be kinda slow in the format
dense berry
tooth and nail is a card i have a very long relationship with
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Sorcery
Exile target card that's an instant or sorcery from your graveyard. For each card exiled this way, copy it, and you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost. Exile Mizzix's Mastery.
Overload 
(You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change its text by replacing all instances of "target" with "each.")
dense berry
ive probably been casting tooth and nail longer than most of the active playerbase has been playing the game
twilit canyon
this is a lot more complicated than i thought now
it cant be that long. what mirrodin came out?
12 years ago?
13?
dense berry
mirrodin was deadass 20 years ago
twilit canyon
oh
dense berry
yeah
twilit canyon
u can entwine off mizzixs mastery then right?
twilit canyon
this is so much more feasible
dense berry
so you can pay additional costs
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Instant
As an additional cost to cast this spell, discard a card.
Draw two cards and create two Treasure tokens. (They're artifacts with "
, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color.")
"Unimaginable riches? I assure you, I have a vivid imagination."
twilit canyon
wheel ramp
cast it maybe u already drew xenagos + fatty
but now u can probs just cheat it with mastery
dense berry
if youre gonna be doing cute grave shenanigans its likely better to just reanimate a problematic creature
twilit canyon
we dont have too much good reanimate spells in historic
dense berry
tooth and nail is generally used in ramp strats
twilit canyon
just [[unburial rites]]
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Sorcery
Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Flashback 
(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
All crave the Blessed Sleep. Few receive it.
twilit canyon
and [[priest of fell rites]]
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Creature — Human Warlock
, Pay 3 life, Sacrifice Priest of Fell Rites: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
Unearth 
(: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step or if it would leave the battlefield. Unearth only as a sorcery.)
2/2
twilit canyon
these are the only reanimate things
hm if u ramp
or want to be ramping
for tooth and nail
yea a midrange strat is probably strong for it
midrange/ramp
?
dense berry
generally yes
dense berry
or a control shell trying to resolve one spell and win the game
dense berry
luckily the creatures you plop out dont have to be in your colors
twilit canyon
should be good as a finisher
ye
though with treasure ramp
they kinda can be
in a pinch
we have griselbrand + the new capenna esper uncommon legend that wins the game
forgot the name
queza or something
[[queza augur of agonies]]
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twilit canyon
oh it got alchemy buffed too. it has vigilance in historic
ok im actually seeing this deck come together
dense berry
hmm if gris is legal im sure there is something you can do
twilit canyon
i was a bit hesitant to say
tooth and nail is for sure viable in historic
but now im a bit more sold on it
if dragonstorm is a capable deck, then tooth and nail surely can be stronger
damn now im thinking how crucias can enable tooth and nail
discard to find a higher mana value, make a treasure, even if you find the fatties or combo fatties, tooth and nail can still cheat them in
dense berry
dragonstorm is legal huh
twilit canyon
yep
dragonstorm is an existing combo deck in historic
its not the best cus it has vulnerabilities
but its an existing archetype
dense berry
is the payoff bogardan hellkite
dense berry
🚮
twilit canyon
its using bladewing loops with terror of the peaks
sleek ferry
[[bogardan hellkite]]
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twilit canyon
since we dont have bogardan hellkite
dense berry
back in the day we stormed into 4 bogs and slapped for 20
twilit canyon
[[terror of the peaks]]
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twilit canyon
[[bladewing the arisen]]
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Legendary Creature — Zombie Dragon
Flying
When Bladewing the Risen enters the battlefield, you may return target Dragon permanent card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
: Dragon creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn.
4/4
twilit canyon
2 copies of bladewing + a terror is infinite damage on the stack
there are some builds that play it like hellkite though
cheat in 4 copies of terror
deal a thousand damage
midrange dragonstorm
dense berry
hmm yeah this is a better combo
twilit canyon
i dont like it
but its a thing
theres also the izzet/jeskai midrange with dragonstorm finish
playing dragons rage channeler and ledger shredders
to mizzix mastery fuel a dragonstorm
the only "big" combo cards that exist in historic that just never took off
are tendrils of agony
and mind's desire
both legal
neither found a home
grapeshot has a few different combo decks
it was a meta combo deck for a bit
tendrils couldnt. minds desire couldnt.
dense berry
those two pay off in a more degenerate card pool
twilit canyon
yeah no rituals hurts them more than others
dense berry
modernized mtg design avoids supporting that kinda stuff
twilit canyon
tainted pact found a home and still has a home
arguably the 2nd best combo deck in historic
card got thoracle banned
which im actually completely okay with
dense berry
can it get thoracle banned in cedh pls
twilit canyon
having to use jwom in the deck
dense berry
i hate that i actually support the ban thoracle unban time vault argument
twilit canyon
the deck did get buffed recently with laelia being added to historic
twilit canyon
i hate that i actually support the ban thoracle unban time vault argument
not sure if i support unban time vault
but i do kinda wish thoracle was never printed
on one hand, it makes resolving some wins so much easier
on the other, it is too efficient
its not like tainted pact or consultation dont have other ways to win too
dense berry
id rather any color identity be allowed to have the ultimate ding dong combo
twilit canyon
[[laelia]]
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dense berry
i wish she had a wubrg activated ability
twilit canyon
laelia has been the other piece that the historic tainted pact deck needed
its able to run crackling drake, laelia, 2 jwoms to win the game and that is actually pretty consistent with 2 pacts + the few tutors we have for it
twilit canyon
historic has been really well curated
sure i think the banlist could use a revision as things can get unbanned for sure
dense berry
its like wow there are all these dumb cards but the turn count is higher than some standards ive played
twilit canyon
but the cards wotc adds to historic are always within reason
format was intentionally curated right now to feed into and empower midrange and aggro
control is very viable and combo decks are also there but not overbearing
its like a weird mix between just enough strong interaction, and just enough strong threats
and everyone's mana is insanely good with utility lands aplenty across all colors
there is only one concern and its the one ring
but even the one ring has created meta adaptations
and might be totally fine down the line since ppl have adapted to it so far
currently the one ring has given rise to bonecrusher giant and questing beast so gruul aggro/midrange has been a bit popular
as well as doing things like invasion of ikoria -> questing beast in mono-green devotion
also orcish bowmasters in black absolutely wrecks the one ring
you need to resolve sheoldred or just never activate it against bowmasters
green has been on [[tear asunder]]
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Instant
Kicker 
(You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Exile target artifact or enchantment. If this spell was kicked, exile target nonland permanent instead.
No one knew why the spiritmongers were so enraged by Phyrexian technology, but it was a stroke of good luck for the Coalition.
twilit canyon
red on bonecrusher and [[cast into the fire]]
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twilit canyon
white has [[fragment reality]] which vs some ring decks, is game ending bc of how efficient it is
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twilit canyon
blue has annul, ceremonious rejection, and a bunch of other counter magic for it obvs
its super manageable and beatable which i dont think is always the case in modern due to modern protection spells like force of negation or subtety
and answers in those formats not being accomodating of something to take care of the ring
also historic solved the lurrus overcentralizing issue by adding in very strong and desirable 3+ mana spels
*spells
yorion is also not optimal in every midrange since you dont have raw cards like in modern
its just such an interesting meta and format
dense berry
well midrange does have appeal to the majority of the playerbase
twilit canyon
another good thing
historic has been giving a home to old playables that fell off
goyf
snapcaster
dragonstorm
acidic slime has a chance for example
maybe tooth and nail too has a good chance
copper pecan
people are using dragonstorm in historic?
dense berry
a friend of mine is so salty that jund fell off in modern
i honestly dunno how it remained viable for so long
midrange just seems like such a lofty pursuit in high powered formats
*constructed formats
twilit canyon
people are using dragonstorm in historic?
yea its decent right now
with the obvious weakness of losing to grave hate
rich bronze
midrange just seems like such a lofty pursuit in high powered formats
I mean there’s always been a good midrange pile in modern
dense berry
midrange does serve an important niche in a meta i just typically hate it when its the most prominent style
rich bronze
midrange does serve an important niche in a meta i just typically hate it when i...
To each their own I guess
Murktide is one of my favourite decks ever
As is UR Delver
twilit canyon
murktide isnt really midrange though
its a tempo deck at its core
4c elementals or 4c control fills more of the "midrange" role in modern
oh scam too
rich bronze
murktide isnt really midrange though
Eh, midrangey enough
rich bronze
4c elementals or 4c control fills more of the "midrange" role in modern
4c elementals with ring looks more like a control deck at this point
Scam sure, agreed
twilit canyon
i guess murktide is closest to midrange outside of scam
but its still solidly tempo
twilit canyon
if murktide more widely adopts fable and seasoned pyro then id consider it midrange
creativity is midrange-combo yeah
i guess rhinos too
for that matter
living end is full combo
twilit canyon
mill
rich bronze
…hardened scales?
rich bronze
hammer ain’t aggro
rich bronze
ehhhhh
rich bronze
scales is aggro-combo
rich bronze
It’s a fast combo deck
twilit canyon
i cant agree on hammer being full combo
twilit canyon
bc it rarely wins by going all-in
it has the explosive double hammer or blinkmoth hammer draws
but hammer is perfectly capable of grinding you out with esper sentinels and puresteel paladins moving kaldra compleat and batterskulls around
prowess is also the opposite of tempo a lot of times. its the one deck using breach "wrong"
trades down on cards to push damage
rich bronze
but hammer is perfectly capable of grinding you out with esper sentinels and pur...
Sure, but that’s really not what it wants to do usually
I haven’t faced prowess in a while
The last time I did it looked exactly like a tempo deck with great card quality
twilit canyon
hammer's game 1 plan is to turn sideways with a 1 mana +10/+10 on an unblockable guy
prowess that plays tempo became murktide
prowess that throws caution to the wind remains what is modern prowess
rich bronze
fair enough I guess, tier 3 either way
twilit canyon
yup
traditional control is the most lacking archetype in modern atm
its "fine"
but thats it
rich bronze
traditional control is the most lacking archetype in modern atm
UW control
Is pretty bad rn
I guess
rich bronze
traditional control is the most lacking archetype in modern atm
I think that’s a consequence of creativity - when you can play a midrange/control pile and throw in a one card combo
why wouldn’t you
You can still play all the interaction
twilit canyon
creativity and rhinos did that yeah
twilit canyon
as a murktide player
rhinos to an extent
creativity match up is so boring
at least rhinos plays to the board
rich bronze
With rhinos you can contest the 4/4s
twilit canyon
when u win vs creativity, u win by such a landslide
rich bronze
But if creativity resolves X=2 on turn 4
twilit canyon
they never stand a chance
when u lose vs creativity, its similarly not fun
they just blow u up
rhinos at least has back and forth yeah
twilit canyon
theres many points in the game where either player can push and win board advantage and hand advantage
it also feels like u sideboard vs a real deck
rich bronze
While with creativity you’re doing great until oops you lose
twilit canyon
with creativity ur just winning/losing no in-between grind portions
yeah im actually going with creativity
bc its infinitely more boring to fight
rich bronze
another issue is that creativity presents too many “must remove” threats
Answer W6 or lose
Answer the second fable token or lose
Deal with T3feri or some uncounterable archons are coming up
rich bronze
thats just modern nowdays
Yea but I don’t think we’ve had a combo deck with such high card quality here, ever
twilit canyon
murktide player resolves ledger shredder on t2 and mishra's bauble getting a counter
splinter twin
rich bronze
Usually that’s something you sacrifice if you wanna blow your opponent out of the game turn 4
rich bronze
splinter twin
Twin had worse cards
twilit canyon
for its time, no
rich bronze
Maybe they were as good relative to the format
twilit canyon
worse to modern standards yeah
rich bronze
Yeah I mean in absolute value
twilit canyon
but in the past those cards were absurd
crazy thing about creativity, is that i think for as good of a set of cards it has
its not even the best deck in modern rn
rich bronze
For now that’d be omnath
Until the ring gets banned
which tbh I think it will after the Pt
twilit canyon
we say this and yet its been getting so many cards that beat that hate
rich bronze
Look, I live in Moscow, getting cardboard here takes time since you need someone to bring it in from neighbouring countries, yet everyone already owns 4
twilit canyon
maybe too good for modern
rich bronze
Look, I live in Moscow, getting cardboard here takes time since you need someone...
The going rate right now for one here is $100ish
rich bronze
LE won’t last
It’s been the best deck of the week a few times now
it never keeps that spot
twilit canyon
we say that now but i do think this time, its just best deck
it got just enough pieces to push it to that point
rich bronze
Yeah, I really don’t want LE to be super meta
tbh
Extremely boring deck to play against
twilit canyon
yeah
with omnath at least
u can play removal on curve against them
and usually turn out fine
twilit canyon
what has now become draw-go burn
yesp
no eidolons
4 vortex main? thats aggressive
rich bronze
saved them a few times
twilit canyon
i usually only do 3 main
glad peak
Palantir + ring burn 
Prob not great but it’s an extension of draw go burn and apparently some people are trying it out
Wow I haven’t studied burn in a while, been on the murktide grind
lusty trench
WOW
rich bronze
FUCK
waxen timber
The one ring is a hell of a drug
atomic harness
What was the point of hallowed ground in the UW control list from the first pro tour? To dodge stuff like arma?
[[hallowed ground]]
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Enchantment
: Return target nonsnow land you control to its owner's hand.
"On this site where Kjeld's blood was spilled, let none raise a fist or deny a beggar." —Halvor Arenson, Kjeldoran priest
zinc shard
Huh could've sworn Horizon Canopy was in the Historic Anthology. Oh well
meager isle
What was the point of hallowed ground in the UW control list from the first pro...
Loconto, a 26-year-old social worker from Grafton, Massachussets, played a blue-white Millstone deck that generally defeated his opponents by running them out of cards. One innovative concept was his addition of Hallowed Ground, which he used to protect himself against Armageddon, to activate his Land Tax, and to save his Mishra's Factories from destruction.
I guess that’s one of the reasons
atomic harness
Thanks
glad peak
Oh hey I remember that one deck, sad that it can’t really be played anymore
rich bronze
Really sucky how much more expensive magic is than Yugioh
why is boseiju $40, it’s an in print standard rare
rich bronze
I have like 5 copies of it in my bulk
BRUH
atomic harness
I have like 5 copies of it in my bulk
Enjoy
sleek ferry
Meanwhile me and Ren have 0 boseijus smh
rigid scarab
MTG really is turning into
TCG Fortnite
It seems like the only properties WOTC won't turn into a UB are ones that already have TCGs
sleek ferry
I think there’s a difference between full UB sets and like secret lair/commander collabs
I don’t think many people actually mind Lotr as a full UB set, as it is one of the most popular and influential fantasy worlds of all time
And I’m actually cool with UB for commander precons also, especially niche shit like dr. Who or wh40k
lusty trench
It seems like the only properties WOTC won't turn into a UB are ones that alread...
Final fantasy has a tcg
twilit canyon
copper pecan
Final fantasy has a tcg
lotr has also had multiple tcgs
granite badge
you put boseiju in your bulk?
ya I opened like 3 Kamigawa boxes and could never be assed to sort through it
probably have a few The Wandering Emperors too
most of it is probably in my desk draw atm
rich bronze
probably have a few The Wandering Emperors too
Kamigawa has good stuff
They’re cheaper in America
But way more expensive in Europe
I paid 100€ for the playset and that’s a good deal
Standard rare btw
twilit canyon
boseiju, otawara, takenuma, sokenzan, eiganjo, fable, bankbuster, invoke despair, wandering emperor
rich bronze
Does despair cost something
twilit canyon
[[$invoke despair]]
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twilit canyon
it did drop recently
granite badge
~~tbh I also couldn't be assed to sell them, that would involve actually selling off TCGplayer again and filing taxes which 
~~
twilit canyon
makes sense
rich bronze
~~tbh I also couldn't be assed to sell them, that would involve actually selling...
Bro just sell to players
That’s what I do
Buy and sell irl
granite badge
that's even harder lol
rich bronze
Kamigawa has good stuff
I literally met up with a guy in a subway station for these
twilit canyon
u do have to report earnings u made off selling cards after a certain amount too
granite badge
I can barely justify going to my ots in general atm
rich bronze
My creativity deck was assembled completely via buying from other people irl
Cash for cards
I think it was like 10ish people total
All on separate occasions
In all, was a bargain relative to ordering online and whatnot
rich bronze
u do have to report earnings u made off selling cards after a certain amount too
That’s nerd shit
who cares
hidden ermine
Im curious if Deathrite Shaman is gonna be balanced without the usual suspects
twilit canyon
we may have enough lands
canopy lands + fabled passage
may be just enough to fuel drs
golden plover
Man they really didn't add any pioneer cards to explorer anthology, huh?
No [[Hidden Stirrings]] or the delve spells? None of the few missing pieces of creativity or humans?
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twilit canyon
still cards being added
creativity literally got xenagos and worldspine
what is it missing
meager isle
Im curious if Deathrite Shaman is gonna be balanced without the usual suspects
It’s not doing anything in pioneer so I doubt it
Doubt it being broken I meant
twilit canyon
pioneer doesnt has canopy lands
canopy lands + fabled passage may be enough lands
especially if opponents also play canopy lands
meager isle
No one is t1 canopy landing so I’m still skeptical on desthrite use
twilit canyon
doesnt has to be immediate turn 1 canopy to have it be enabled
trail anvil
what's up with xenagos and worldspine in creativity anyways?
twilit canyon
xenagos gives worldspine +15/+15 and haste. it already has trample
twilit canyon
pioneer goes for that p much always
anyways its bad in historic
historic can do girselbrand queza
or double serra emmissary
twilit canyon
its even buffed in historic yo have vigilance
fallow citrus
krark 🛌
such a cool deck in concept but every time I've played against it there's been someone durdling with the deck until they eventually get a non-deterministic win
sleek ferry
Krark sakashima is the coolest cedh deck imo
fallow citrus
when the turns don't take 20 minutes then yeah it's cool
golden plover
I like Krark Sakishima but I can't justify building it considering how similar to Elsha it is tbh
Super cool deck tho
glad peak
Tbh I really like Krark silas or Malcolm vial smasher
rigid scarab
And I’m actually cool with UB for commander precons also, especially niche shit ...
Dr. Who is niche?
sleek ferry
Outside of Europe I would say it is
trail anvil
depends on your definition of niche
it's definitely a lot more mainstream than most stuff I'd call niche
sleek ferry
Idk I look at it the same way I look at General Hospital
And i know for a fact nobody outside the US knows general hospital
trail anvil
I don't know general hospital like that
dr. who is like the halfway point between tumblr obsession and mainstream enough that we get new doctor announcements in our pop culture news
sleek ferry
I would call tumblr niche too tbh
I feel like the natural progression of things was MySpace > Facebook > Twitter
But some people went MySpace > tumblr
copper pecan
i feel like final fantasy is more niche than doctor whom
trail anvil
Tumblr is niche enough, but that's why I brought up the mainstream news coverage too
lusty trench
i feel like final fantasy is more niche than doctor whom
I can guarantee you more people know who cloud is vs... idk who's the most iconic doctor? David Tennant?
copper pecan
i don't think that's true
sleek ferry
I can’t name you a single doctor
copper pecan
sure but i feel like most people wouldn't be ablee to name a single final fantasy character
whereas doctor whomst is at least slightly mainstream
but if you don't play video games you'll have no clue what final fantasy is even about
sleek ferry
Fair. I do think Dr. Who’s popularity is most likely carried by an older audience though
Like 40+
In current times at least
twilit canyon
same with final fantasy tbh
sleek ferry
That I doubt, FF got the Disney exposure to bring in a younger audience
golden plover
I'd honestly argue the most niche UB was Warhammer
Everything else is something an average person probably knows a little about
lusty trench
go outside
just got told to touch grass bruh
golden plover
The average person probably hasn't played a Final Fantasy game but but can recognize Cloud
Other than LOTR, these aren't things people will see and know every detail of
But someone who's watched a few episodes of Dr Who will see the deck in a store, go "oh I like Dr Who" and buy it
sleek ferry
Well obv, Lotr is our generation’s Star Wars
And I use “ours” loosely as Misty is not the same generation as us
lusty trench
Actually now I'm curious which is the most popular doctor incarnation
golden plover
David Tennant
lusty trench
Makes sense dude was great in the role
granite badge
i feel like final fantasy is more niche than doctor whom
disagree tbh
granite badge
maybe its just me but the only thing doctor who related I knew about was when Wizard101 made a event which was vaguely based on it
meanwhile Cloud and co shows up everywhere I look even if I've literally never played a FF game
I guarantee people would at least be able to see a chocobo and go "hey its that gremlim bird from that one game"
hidden ermine
Well
The thing is that games are still, overall, relatively niche
JRPGs especially
Dr. Who on the other hand is one of the best known series in its home country, and fairly popular outside, and TV Shows have a much wider reach
Of course, MTG is gonna have more overlap with the gaming crowd inherently but
golden plover
The average person can recognize at least a few video game characters tho
hidden ermine
Sure, Mario, Sonic, Link
golden plover
Basically if they're Master Chief or part of the smash roster
hidden ermine
FF characters? Ehhhhh idk
golden plover
Not the full smash roster, but you get what I'm saying
copper pecan
i feel like even most of the smash roster isn't well known outside of gaming circles
golden plover
I'm not counting the full roster
The FE people and stuff don't count
I just mean a decent chunk are recognizable
Like Mario, Ryu, Pikachu, Cloud
They might not be able to name them, but they can tell Cloud is from a video game
copper pecan
i don't think they'd recognize cloud
i remember my brother unironically thinking cloud was from yugioh when he first saw him
golden plover
Obviously less people know cloud than the doctor, but I definitely wouldn't say FF is niche
granite badge
^
golden plover
I think if they saw cloud on a deck box they'd go "oh hes a video game guy"
trail anvil
TIL shuffling the library while the commander in it will let you return it to the command zone
I get why, just didn't expect that lol
trail anvil
at least in brawl
sleek ferry
Realistically
trail anvil
@golden plover how often do you see salty ropes nowadays, this is the first one I've seen in a while
sleek ferry
What’s stopping me from playing mono black with evolved sleepers/ayara’s oathsworns/razorlash transmogrants/both sheoldreds and just a fuck ton of removal?
trail anvil
in standard?
sleek ferry
Yeah
trail anvil
sleeper is pretty easy to stop for me idk, investing mana into it means you're committing a chunk of your early game to it
sleek ferry
That’s fine, but sleeper itself is very cost efficient
trail anvil
I feel like he's a lot more card efficient than cost efficient, maybe I'm seeing him being used wrong
why ayara's oathsworn? just so you can get as many threats going as possible with removal tribal?
sleek ferry
2/2 menace attacker that just gets bigger and tutors if left unchecked, I want the to waste removal on my smaller cards
twilit canyon
[[mortarpod]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Living weapon (When this Equipment enters the battlefield, create a 0/0 black Phyrexian Germ creature token, then attach this to it.)
Equipped creature gets +0/+1 and has "Sacrifice this creature: This creature deals 1 damage to any target."
Equip
twilit canyon
and [[sword of fire and ice]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and has protection from red and from blue.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, Sword of Fire and Ice deals 2 damage to any target and you draw a card.
Equip
lost widgetBOT
zinc shard
Never heard of Mortarpod before today
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
why did vindicator not work here? o_o
twilit canyon
[[goreclaw terror of]]
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Bear
Creature spells you cast with power 4 or greater cost less to cast.
Whenever Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma attacks, each creature you control with power 4 or greater gets +1/+1 and gains trample until end of turn.
You don't want to know how she got that name.
4/3
twilit canyon
[[esika and inga]]
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Human God
Creatures you control have vigilance and ": Add one mana of any color. Spend this mana only to cast a creature spell."
Whenever you cast a creature spell, if three or more mana from creatures was spent to cast it, draw a card.
4/4
twilit canyon
oh did it have a shield counter
trail anvil
only sanctuary warden did
twilit canyon
what else was in your/their grave?
twilit canyon
did your opponent possibly gain protection?
trail anvil
even if so I should be able to target their creatures, but no
atomic harness
Any blighted agent fans in chat??
glad peak
We don’t like yous infect folk round here
atomic harness
sleek ferry
Blinkmoth Nexus supremacy
fallow citrus
Any blighted agent fans in chat??
hi :)
blessed and based
lusty trench
Just found out my lgs does hot wings that are better and cheaper than KFC by like, 50%
meager isle
As much as that sounds cool I hope the players don’t eat and play at the same time
sleek ferry
tbf, kfc's hot wings are mid
their actual chicken is the star
huh TDIL [[trinisphere]] is the always the last thing to resolve
lost widgetBOT
Artifact
As long as Trinisphere is untapped, each spell that would cost less than three mana to cast costs three mana to cast. (Additional mana in the cost may be paid with any color of mana or colorless mana. For example, a spell that would cost to cast costs to cast instead.)
lusty trench
their actual chicken is the star
Bruh their hot wings are the best thing they offer
meager isle
their actual chicken is the star
🧢
sleek ferry
Not cap. KFC chicken is the best fast food chicken (yes, including jollibee and popeyes)
zinc shard
[[Phyrexian Vindicator]]
lost widgetBOT
meager isle
Not cap. KFC chicken is the best fast food chicken (yes, including jollibee and ...
I’ve never had jollibees but I generally go to local stores for wings not franchises
Way better than kfc
sleek ferry
well, I don't go to kfc for wings
atomic harness
I’ve never had jollibees but I generally go to local stores for wings not franch...
JB is good
Thugs is lucky to have good kfc, I keep hearing bad things about NA KFC
it's a lot better here in asia
meager isle
it's a lot better here in asia
Not in my opinion
Had the one in Japan never understood why it’s so massive there
atomic harness
sleek ferry
maybe bio doesn't like seasoning
golden plover
Wow Scrying is like the second actual pioneer card
It'd literally take a single anthology to get the format to almost 1:1 with paper but they just refuse to
twilit canyon
yeah instead they give us historic cards
they know what the better format is
and where to focus on
golden plover
I think it's because they know people would only need to update pioneer decks infrequently
And so instead they just add shit no one wants like accorder's shield
twilit canyon
nah its cus pioneer is dogshit and they dont wanna manage the format to playability yet
golden plover
It'd literally just take the delve cards, Strings, the half of the charms that'd see play, and like 3 other cards (add the flip walker cycle)
twilit canyon
accorder's shield is a good add for historic hammer to protect esper sentinel and play a long game
sylvan scrying will do better in historic
golden plover
Yeah but they should have been in the historic anthology then
Well scrying is useful in pioneer
twilit canyon
nah
they added it to explorer anthology bc they are explorer legal
they can continue giving us cool historic cards
lile bloodghast
and vendillion clique
and the canopy lands
and the 5 titans
and mortarpod
and sofai
tribal flames and nactl
and bloodbraid elf and powerstone
acidic slime and tooth and nail
trail anvil
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/card-image-gallery/explorer-anthology-3 the rest of the cards
twilit canyon
missing 3
golden plover
Literally didn't add the two charms that actually see play lmao
twilit canyon
orzhov charm and izzet charm will see historic play though
maybe golgari charm too
trail anvil
was gonna say I thought izzet charm was decent
trail anvil
missing 3
one of them is hidden strings
twilit canyon
bets on it being 3 historic-focused cards
trail anvil
judging by what's been covered, 2 monowhite cards and 1 monoblue card left?
twilit canyon
jvp, kytheon, and chained to the rocks
gruul charm actually has a niche in historic lmfao
it clears wizards
zinc shard
twilit canyon
they meant historic oops
sleek ferry
The skeleton is 1000% alchemy post Lotr, the format is just actually unplayable and unenjoyable right now
It goes historic > pioneer > standard > alchemy rn
I don’t think I’ve seen a single set ruin a format for me so badly the way Lotr did alchemy
sleek ferry
Bo1 is awful yeah
golden plover
Lmao but even from the first EA, they only had to add like 20 cards to get it almost there
golden plover
Wait did they add [[Cathar's Shield]] in SOIR?
lost widgetBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +0/+3 and has vigilance.
Equip (: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)
"A leader can inspire courage, but it is the smiths and healers who truly keep hope alive." —Thalia, heretic cathar
twilit canyon
historic cheerios appreciates accorder's shield
golden plover
Yeah but they could have gotten the same effect by putting Cathar's Shield in SOIR
Wouldn't have wasted a slot lmao
golden plover
It is for the format it's being billed as an expansion for tho
golden plover
Like I get that they go in the explorer one if they're explorer legal, but the card is USELESS in explorer and should have been added another way then
golden plover
They do a decent bit with it in paper
golden plover
I'm honestly convinced they realized pioneer decks don't change enough rn and they wouldn't make as much money if they put in on arena
twilit canyon
its been so stagnant
golden plover
So they're gonna drip feed shit cards
twilit canyon
they dont change yea but they really need to that format is so stale
golden plover
I mean it's the old modern problem
They either change because cards come to standard that change them, or they stay the same for a while
Modern gets directly injected with cards that rotate the format now
But a big appeal for Pioneer is that it doesn't
twilit canyon
well its not like u need to constantly change the format for it to be fun
the issue is pioneer is stale and solved
golden plover
I mean the solution there is to have more cards in standard that encourage new stuff in pioneer
twilit canyon
they could try toning down rakdos and nykthos
and yet i cant actually say thats a real solution
historic has both decks
stronger too
and they are fine
why? format has a larger card pool
copper pecan
explorer players be like "why doesn't wotc promote explorer more" as though explorer's entire existence isn't defined by it's playerbase wanting to play pioneer instead
like
to most people on arena, explorer's defining feature of being acurate to pioneer is something they just don't care about
and the people who do like explorer want to be playing pioneer instead
so you have a format that appeals to barely anyone
golden plover
Yeah but the issue is just they're not adding the stuff to play pioneer on arena
Like it'd literally take 20 cards to have the majority of the format
lusty trench
Do y'all think we'll ever get a card of yawgmoth at the peak of their power
golden plover
I wanna say nah because he'd be insane
But tbf, we have a few urzas that are now andn they suck
lusty trench
He'd have to be a Timmy card right?
Like high ass mana value, huge stats, insane etb and passive effect
twilit canyon
yooooooo
repeal and giver are big and eggs is looking a lot more playable in historic
zinc shard
"Stop playing Explorer" - WOTC
twilit canyon
so nice of wizards of the coast to give us 2 historic anthologies in one summer
copper pecan
yo wait izzet charm is kinda big
twilit canyon
a friend on another server manifested izzet charm
i manifested giver of runes
izzet charm is actually got a ton of potential for historic though yeah
i also think golgari charm does too tbh
golden plover
Familiar has literally been in a single topping deck since the creation of the format lmao
twilit canyon
as does orzhov charm
gruul charm and simic charm are the 2 that are a bit sus
but gruul charm can be used to beat wizards specifically
since it can blow up multiple symmetry sage and balmor
golden plover
Should have at least completed the charm cycle tbh
copper pecan
yo wait golgari charm means that the "can't be regenerated" part of wrath is finally relevant maybe
twilit canyon
simic charm is just always niche
golden plover
Rakdos, Boros, and Azorius charm have actually been in decks in the format
twilit canyon
yo wait golgari charm means that the "can't be regenerated" part of wrath is fin...
they already added a regenerate card in multiversal legends
but it sees no play
but now
yeah there is a chance
golden plover
Wait damn, so no strings got included
Would have at least meant one of the unfinished Pioneer decks would be done
twilit canyon
i think they were apprehensive of adding 2 entire combo decks to explorer
cus explorer now can play creativity
golden plover
Explorer played creativity before
All the tools were there
Xenawurm hasn't been a closer for creativity since ONE
You just finish with Atraxa
lusty trench
Me: "oh wow demon tribal is actually super cheap to buil-"
These two mfs:
twilit canyon
Xenawurm hasn't been a closer for creativity since ONE
maybe pioneer should be a more interesting format
im guessing delve spells are being worked on
flip walkers will be done soon too
golden plover
Aren't there literally delve spells in the client already?
twilit canyon
no not yet
golden plover
I thought [[Soulflayer]] was in jumpstart
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Demon
Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for .)
If a creature card with flying was exiled with Soulflayer's delve ability, Soulflayer has flying. The same is true for first strike, double strike, deathtouch, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, reach, trample, and vigilance.
4/4
twilit canyon
idt its a coding issue but rather ensuring it works well on mobile and pc
golden plover
I mean, there's already cards like graveyard trespasser
twilit canyon
that doesnt work like how delve does
trail anvil
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/931305913829195846/1128100165056733294/im...
bauble is so nice as a generic ramp option in hbrawl
twilit canyon
its just a nice card in general
dense berry
it looks like theyre trying to turn historic into what modern originated as
which to me says its gonna eventually be where modern is
twilit canyon
we have a few years before that
dense berry
they need to make a format with an entirely curated card pool
similar to how one might design a cube
cards dont get printed into it and dont rotate out of it but they can be pruned or added as needed
keeping the format a certain size would help a lot with maintaining balance and keeping the barrier to entry low
copper pecan
is that not what standard is supposed to be
dense berry
sans the rotation bit
copper pecan
i feel like most players wouldn't want to play a constructed format that doesn't have new cards added to it regularly
dense berry
well thats the beautiful thing is they could definitely add cards regularly
zinc shard
So I just found out Starter Deck Duels is a mode on Arena, so tried to get a game.
After 10 minutes in the queue I gave up
atomic harness
Oh wow that's death
rigid scarab
Some Commander Masters reveals finally
golden plover
Oh shit the medallions are actually good reprints
Yeah this profile style is 100% not doing it for me
rigid scarab
I was gonna list them all saint 
golden plover
Even recognizable dudes look weird in it
and people like Azusa just look like whatever
Wait this isn't a double rare set is it?
Because stuff like krenko will feel like shit as your rare in $8 packs
meager isle
https://preview.redd.it/ccttp5piddbb1.png?auto=webp&s=85906940af52db80efdf571ff4...
This at least looks better because it isn’t a side profile
But the background being non existent is bad
golden plover
Yeah the side profiles look bad
And they should have had backgrounds or something
They look like picrews slapped on cards
meager isle
Absolutely lazy honestly
meager isle
Oh she wasn’t always mythic?
golden plover
She was rare in battlebond
But she's $30 so can't have her be reprinted in the rare slot
lusty trench
Wotc when card is worth more than £10
meager isle
Lmao wtf wotc
lusty trench
rigid scarab
Sol Ring
Command Tower
Arcane Signet
Path of Ancestry
Prismatic Piper
Extinguish All Hope
Fellwar Stone
All Medallions
Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Chainer, Dementia Master
Krenko, Mob Boss
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Karador, Ghost Chieftan
Maelstrom Wanderer
Land Tax
Evacuation
Spellseeker
golden plover
Give her old chainer's spot
golden plover
He got a reprint 3 months ago and is like $0.50
Lmao we're getting the whole theros double pip cycle
rigid scarab
We need bulk rares in our $560 preorder product
golden plover
But they downshifted extinguish all hope
And kept Evacuation Rare
Fuck off this is an uncommon at best
"But the draft experience"
rigid scarab
https://preview.redd.it/pteir36nedbb1.png?auto=webp&s=2b5a575beb2de1faa55318d1f7...
They called this "A much more fair Cyclonic Rift"
lusty trench
Fuck off this is an uncommon at best
Wdym it's just like cyclonic its so good 
sleek ferry
Phew I woke up today and told myself “I’m going to order all the medallions today”. Good thing I didn’t get to it yet
golden plover
They called this "A much more fair Cyclonic Rift"
Well you can't unprint cyc rift
So either include it or downshift worse rift
rigid scarab
Yeah I think that
Trying to introduce draft to commander
Is just not working very well
sleek ferry
CL1 was an amazing draft experience
sleek ferry
Idk about CL2
sleek ferry
CL2 if nothing else had mass variety
golden plover
It's not even double rares
With how much bulk they've already revealed they're crazy if they think it's getting drafted
golden plover
DMR was also regular price
Okay so it is technically a double rare set in that there's a legendary in every pack
So there's decent odds you get at least two rares
lusty trench
Okay so it is technically a double rare set in that there's a legendary in every...
Commander legends 2 moment
rigid scarab
Every pack has a legendary?
rigid scarab
Or Chainer
golden plover
Oh god already forgot about chainer
rigid scarab
Or the other bulk partners they're inevitably gonna reprint
golden plover
Me getting chainer and evacuation while my friend gets Kozilek and Jeweled Lotus
golden plover
Depends on the rest of the cards
Rn it's a huge gamble
You either hit ur dragon and jeweled lotus and make your money back or hit krenko and chainer
sudden lava
fallow citrus
ngl
I think the side profile thing is really funny
like you can't do it for non-human creatures but you have to because it's the gimmick
rigid scarab
They actually look like fucking Picrew pfps
fallow citrus
it's great
rigid scarab
Also jesus christ imagine getting Green Omnath as your mythic