#Magic the Gathering
dense berry
i think fable and bankbuster are soft confirmed banned
id be surprised if much else got axed tbh
when they announced the change in rotation cycles i assumed it would reduce the need to ban cards, not be followed up by the largest banlist update ever (like the leak would have had us believe)
sleek ferry
Tbh a kill list still makes sense
Also mtga just got added to steam
So a soft reset on the meta would be nice
trail anvil
pog
twilit canyon
ez
copper pecan
play historic brawl
opponent is playing golos
they search maze's end and not world tree
clever sun
Wait am I going crazy didn't you already share this?
atomic harness
Uhh I think I forgot, they only came today
atomic harness
Yeah mb I'm tweaking 
clever sun
Early on-set dementia is a serious condition
atomic harness
in any case, is 10 countermagic in 99 excessive?
atomic harness
Yeah lemme check removal
I have swords, fracture, dispatch, despark, doom blade
clever sun
Yeah just a bit low
atomic harness
should be alright, also uhh I was proxying [[karn, scion of urza]] and wow what a card
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atomic harness
-2 "ult" that protects him 
sudden lava
Ethersworn is the odd one out
clever sun
How?
sudden lava
the rest counter spells
atomic harness
Oh ethersworn (proxy) has been hard carrying in my pod so I finally bought one
clever sun
I love countering spells with Patchwork Automaton
sudden lava
I mean, it literally can counter spells
atomic harness
I remember someone trying to counter my counter when ethersworn was up during their turn that was funny
sudden lava
counters abilities to 
twilit canyon
thats kind of a silly reach
like
yea
thats what ward does
but thats not the intended purpose of patchwork
he isnt a counter spell
he can counter spells
but ward is more easy to describe as a tax piece to removal
not a counter
sudden lava
yes, and out of the 6 cards posted only 5 can counter a spell technically.
twilit canyon
cus no one is touching ur ward thing unless they can kil it
lmao
ok
by ur metric
ethersworn canonist counters spells too
they get 1 spell a turn
unless its artifacts
so they get 1 spell a turn it effectively counters spells
sudden lava
But it doesnt counter, just limits how many you can play.
twilit canyon
same with ward unless ur opponent is playing an uncounterable removal spell
sudden lava
Talking in the most literal sense that is
cuz nobody is targetting a ward creature unless they can pay the cost
twilit canyon
correct so ward doesnt actually counter anything
sudden lava
~~unless they forget it has ward ~~
twilit canyon
thats skill issue
sudden lava
facts
atomic harness
Rn the only new card im iffy on for this deck is surge of salvation
sudden lava
Im excited for card reveal season to start
for the upcoming 8 commander precon decks
atomic harness
Yeah I might play something else instead caster
lion sash on the other hand has been very good 
the white ooze
sudden lava
what is lion sash again?
atomic harness
[[lion sash]]
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Artifact Creature — Equipment Cat
: Exile target card from a graveyard. If it was a permanent card, put a +1/+1 counter on Lion Sash.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each +1/+1 counter on Lion Sash.
Reconfigure 
(: Attach to target creature you control; or unattach from a creature. Reconfigure only as a sorcery. While attached, this isn't a creature.)
1/1
sudden lava
oh yeah that
clever sun
I love Lion's Sash
atomic harness
I attached it to my esper sentinel
trail anvil
it's kinda funny to me that the white version is the one that doesn't have lifegain, even though green has healing too
atomic harness
youd think the white one would gain life yeah
and green would be the one that pumps
atomic harness
Oh true hmm
sudden lava
one of my favorite neo kamigawa small creatures
just a tiny little human samurai with haste that you can cycle later
clever sun
it's kinda funny to me that the white version is the one that doesn't have lifeg...
Sash grows harder than Scooze
So it makes sense
Exile permanent, get counter
Exile creature, get counter and 1 life
atomic harness
not even creatures it's permanents 
clever sun
But Scooze can't get bigger or life off non-creatures
atomic harness
caster soulless jailer has also been a surprising carry so far in a lot of my games
stopped this urza breach guy, stopped this ragavan guy from getting any value, stopped this reanimator guy
sudden lava
I need to double check which dr who deck it was that has red in it's color identity
oh right all of them besides blast from the past
clever sun
Jailer is lowkey super strong
atomic harness
sudden lava
phoenix chick only 80 cents right now, I should pick one up
sleek ferry
Alright, back at diamond, I’m done with ranked till Monday
trail anvil
nice
atomic harness
Gratsu
trail anvil
I've run into 2 people that auto conceded vs my slimefoot & squee hbrawl deck, did a popular youtuber put out a list or something? why are they so afraid of jund reanimation 
fallow citrus
oh cool mtga is on steam now
twilit canyon
yup
atomic harness
trail anvil
tatyova kept a 1-land (+lotus field) hand
sleek ferry
Are you competing in the arena championship @twilit canyon ?
zinc shard
sleek ferry
god
I'm playing some fun games in diamond right now /s
got hit by 15+ removal spells vs mono black one game and still won
just got hit by 7 board wipes by mono white and still won
twilit canyon
Are you competing in the arena championship <@480437470870110209> ?
nope. dont have the time for it with grad school prep
sleek ferry
Ah damn
I’m ngl, the last couple of days
I’ve been playing out my fucking mind on arena
trail anvil
https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/13qb349/why_is_this_card_still_legal_in_h_brawl/ why are people pretending this card is a problem again?
in edh it makes sense to ban this but in hbrawl you almost literally never see this card
sure you can go infinite if you manage to put the pieces together, but there are way more ways to do that in the format lmao
if you go all in on mana rocks like you do with edh then you eat shit to aggro that's actually present in the format, especially with samut being one of the most popular commanders right now
twilit canyon
cus ppl are dogshit at this game
trail anvil
I'm just wondering how this many people even lost to engine, did they scoop before seeing the opp doesn't actually have anything to do with their excess mana
twilit canyon
they wanna play slow durdly piles with no interaction and absurdly slow wincons if any and when combo or aggro pull up they cry
trail anvil
I think people are too used to aggro now
I'm just amazed I don't see more complaints about emergent ultimatum or omniscience if they're gonna complain about that
I'm fairly sure 95% of the people voting have never actually played the format and just looked at the edh banlist once
twilit canyon
many such cases
copper pecan
emergent ultimatum is way more annoying to me than paradox engine is
you at least need a bunch of set up for paradox engine
zinc shard
First time in Plat, Izzet Wizards is a fun deck
dense berry
just played a standard brawl on my friends account with thalia and gitrog
trail anvil
emergent ultimatum is way more annoying to me than paradox engine is
yeah you literally just instantly win the game with ultimatum
trail anvil
just played a standard brawl on my friends account with thalia and gitrog
nice, that's a fun commander to start with
dense berry
wrenn and seven went like +10
trail anvil
yeah that walker goes crazy unchecked
dense berry
i also did his singleton event thing
i slapped together mono black
didn't drop any games, Black seems real good
twilit canyon
alchemy is v much like standard
black is the best color
infinite tools and in alchemy u even get meathook and the hags
twilit canyon
only ones to care about are the fact that meathook is legal
and [[the hourglass coven]]
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dense berry
i dont have an arena account so ive never looked into these
twilit canyon
its the only alchemy card in mono-black that really matters all the others are only barely playable
at least when in consideration for the alchemy format
golden plover
Wait that uses the same art like 12 times lmao
sleek ferry
zinc shard
LOL
golden plover
Okay so it is Amass that's coming back for lotr
It's Amass Orc now, meaning it always makes black army tokens with the type
trail anvil
wait was that the mechanic maro had to fight for?
hidden ermine
I mean I can see that because like
Why would you want Amass of all things
Its boring and a flavour fail
trail anvil
eh I think it just needed more decent cards to give the token abilities
swinging with a big bungus is kinda fun but it can't be the only gimmick
I think they missed the same opportunity with the incubate cards in MOM, where most of them were draft cards
golden plover
Yeah Amass doesn't feel like an army to me
Army should be a bunch of dudes, not one large guy
hidden ermine
An army shouldnt be stopped by 1 (singular) dog
golden plover
My mushroom blocks your army
golden plover
Honestly tho, most of LOTR so far has felt like a flavor fail, so I'm not surprised
sleek ferry
idk, tempt and the one ring feel like flavor wins
golden plover
should've come with menace by default
Honestly should have been something like "Menace by default, trample if a bit bigger"
The one ring is great
But tempt is the BIGGEST flavor fail
trail anvil
yeah with tempt I'm aware that most downsides felt bad with the mechanic, but just make it lose life
losing 1 life is an extremely common downside that isn't that impactful
golden plover
That or put a -1/-1 on your Ring-bearer each turn or something
copper pecan
that sounds awful
golden plover
The ring bearer needs to have the mental fortitude to not be driven insane by the ring
copper pecan
i don't see what's tempting about a mechanic that hurts you
golden plover
Tempt literally as a word implies negative
copper pecan
it implies that you want whatever the thing is
hidden ermine
should've come with menace by default
Trample, tbqh
copper pecan
a -1/-1 counter every single turn is a really big downside
golden plover
Then yeah, go with you lose a life a turn if you've got a ring bearer out
trail anvil
again just simple life loss
hidden ermine
Tempt is somewhat in a flavourfail in that it has no backside whatsoever
copper pecan
also the reason amass doesn't give trample or menace is because they needed it to be something that wouldn't be a pie break in blue
trail anvil
could be each time you venture deeper into the dungeon
golden plover
Something small enough to be downside that you can play around
trail anvil
give it a slightly stronger eff to compensate
copper pecan
Then yeah, go with you lose a life a turn if you've got a ring bearer out
this is a way bigger downside than you think it is tbh
trail anvil
it's not that feelsbad
golden plover
I mean it should have any form of downside
And 1 life has been associated with devil deals before
copper pecan
whatever the downside is needs to be extremely small otherwise new players will think the mechanic is terrible and won't use it at all
golden plover
Stuff like [[Treacherous Blessing]]
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copper pecan
treacherous blessing is one card and not a mechanic that the entire set is built around
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copper pecan
they don't print like 20 sign in bloods in a single set
golden plover
I mean, new players are already gonna be turned off by a mechanic that's got a double-sided card's worth of text anyway
copper pecan
there are tons of black cards that don't hurt you for using them
golden plover
I mean literally the issue is the word tempt
trail anvil
yes but it's against the flavor
golden plover
Just call it something else or give it a downside
If someone hands me $100, I'm not tempted
Also, the mechanic already seems sorta not good in the first place
copper pecan
if the mechanic isn't good then it absolutely doesn't need a downside on top of that
golden plover
It could have been stronger with a minor downside
golden plover
But the point is that it's a huge flavor fail
copper pecan
i'd rather have flavor fails than gameplay fails
if the mechanic sucks then it doesn't matter how good the flavor is
golden plover
Yeah, but they could have done a slightly different, stronger mechanic that also was more flavorful
It's just a weird mechanic all around
And definitely not new player friendly when you've already got a double sided rules text card to track
At least the sauron feels like Sauron for once?
But it does just kinda feel like they threw all the sauron effects on one card randomly
trail anvil
out of the 3 cards leaked this one actually feels like it's worth its mana value too lol
zinc shard
between the army and the reanimator its a 3 for 1
golden plover
out of the 3 cards leaked this one actually feels like it's worth its mana value...
True. But 8 mana is steep
Doesn't seem bad, but 8 mana is a big ask
trail anvil
yeah it's probably unplayable but the other commanders were rough too
that simic one has fucking terrible value lmao
golden plover
The others are even more unplayable
golden plover
Yeah at least on cast you make 3 bodies for 8
You get a 9/9, a 5/5, and most notably, your best card in your graveyard
This card is fucking awful
sudden lava
ooh leaks
golden plover
Also, no clue why it's got a dependent trigger for combat when it feels like it should have just been a "whenever you play an elf"
They probably originally had it as that and then changed it last minute tbh
sudden lava
oh that sucks
golden plover
I'll take all these cards sucking at least
sudden lava
where can I read the other stuff that got leaked
golden plover
Means you don't have to see them at the table outside of memes and stuff and not have to see them in a competitive format for modern at least
trail anvil
it's honestly whatever to me at this point
if you got into magic cause they did your favorite franchise that's fine to me
golden plover
Yeah, I still don't like them, but I'll live with seeing them at tables
I sorta wish they had been a different thing but they're already in the game now I guess
So at this point, I just hope they're not broken
twilit canyon
i personalyl hope that a good chunk of them are good enough for modern
i always hope they print playable good cards
clever sun
Yeah not sure why we would want bad cards printed
zinc shard
I quit
trail anvil
what a fuckin topdeck
glad peak
can't wait to see a bunch of blue farm with pilots who have no idea how to play it
sudden lava
atomic harness
True caster
zinc shard
Vraska + Vorinclex is a hilarious interaction
trail anvil
ye that's the go-to wincon of emergent ultimatum users nowadays
at least in hbrawl, pretty sure in other formats too?
subtle sierra
god i wanted to try a dimir deck and made the hidetsugu and kairi deck and holy fuck it goes hard
having one on the field, then dropping another to cast breach then cast a despair, all for 5 mana, is my current highlight
it's so nutty when it works
but ig the operative word here is when
trail anvil
the most effective variant I've seen is grixis with a side of hidetsugu
but that might just be less reliable grixis which is almost certainly getting banned in 3 days
subtle sierra
true
i don't have the mana base, and i made a new account to test this, in order to not waste wildcards
so 3 colors is incredibly iffy there
but i'll try to fix my grixis if it comes to it
twilit canyon
trying out the gideon deification list in historic
subtle sierra
at least i know something i'd like to build if it's completely murdered
twilit canyon
should be stronger than pioneer version at least
sterling grove and avacyns pilgrim more consistently casting gideon and protecting deification
subtle sierra
oh another funny thing is that one of the win cons is mill and breach into jace being a mill 25 is funny
twilit canyon
id def wait for the banlist
that said, standard meta has been a bit weird cus of the ramp and calix decks popping in
subtle sierra
oh like i said i made a new acc to test this, so no wildcards wasted
i only have to live with a shit mana base, but at least i can see if i like the playstyle
clever sun
I like the idea of Breach -> Jace
But I'm just not a fan of losing Red
Grixis > Dimir at the moment and honestly, unless the banlist destroys all Red midrange stuff, I think Grixis is still better
Getting access to Corpse Appraiser as GY hate that cantrips
Abrade
Option to run Invasion of Tarkir
subtle sierra
oh i know, just that dimir is my fave
clever sun
Fair
@twilit canyon BTW I have been toying a bit more with the Scales list you wanted to try
subtle sierra
i mostly play for fun during workouts on my exercise bike, so like 2-3 bo1 games a day?
trail anvil
that said, standard meta has been a bit weird cus of the ramp and calix decks po...
have you seen that much calix, I haven't played standard in a little bit
twilit canyon
how is recom
trail anvil
I was more used to seeing monored, monoblue and soldiers back when I was playing standard
twilit canyon
hm
clever sun
My kingdom for an Arcbound Ravager
trail anvil
[[recommission]]
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trail anvil
damn this is 2 mana?
twilit canyon
yea
this deck idea was born in the deep dark recesses of our dms
its literally just modern scales
since i noticed we have like
89% of the cards
clever sun
Down to the mana base even
trail anvil
scary
clever sun
We are missing Walking Ballista, Arcbound Ravager, Urza's Saga, and Welding Jar
But jar is easily replacable
twilit canyon
We are missing Walking Ballista, Arcbound Ravager, Urza's Saga, and Welding Jar
w
was just gonna say
we have walker
we are missing ballista
twilit canyon
but yea
we are like
questioning
can we still make it clap without ballista or ravager
twilit canyon
drom com kinda litty in this format tho
so
i will try it too
at least in the side
clever sun
Yeah for sure
trail anvil
so I talked on another server about how paradox engine isn't an issue and supposedly it is an issue... only in hell queue though
examples included sisay, elves, kinnan, rusko, crucias, stickfingers and acererak
I've seen crucias, elves and acererak but never felt too pressured by them, maybe I run too much black lmao
twilit canyon
so in a tier where thats all fine to play
trail anvil
idk fam I'd say that hell queue is for spikes but I don't play that shit for a reason lmao
so I can't really comment on it
twilit canyon
id wager to say if u are building a historic brawl deck to be as powerful as possible
u can probs deal with pengine
trail anvil
idk according to these two people you can't, but when emry brings it back 5 times I get that at least
but emry is emry, she probably should've been banned
that said I queued 2 games with sythis to try to get into hell queue and immediately queued into ragavan twice, I hate this queue with a passion
twilit canyon
queueing in with elves and seeing what happens
trail anvil
did you make sure to add paradox engine
twilit canyon
i didnt
i still got paired into crucias
who failed to stop me from going off
and i paired into a ragavan that insta conceded
yea nvm i think im good for now with brawl
trail anvil
why tf would you insta concede as ragavan lmao
your deck is literally removal tribal
which hard counters elves
twilit canyon
they werent on the play
if i curve out they never get a chance to play ragavan and remove my elves on time
tbh
it can also be that ragavan player doesnt find him that fun vs elves
trail anvil
idk I just don't really understand playing hell queue in general with hbrawl
if I wanted to tryhard I'd go standard
twilit canyon
any other format on arena in general
draft/sealed since opens are those formats now
oh right i did finally cash out an open again
$1k off the last one
im actually improving at draft
unfort i kinda hate this format
trail anvil
I really hate limited altogether but arena puts a draft token in its battlepass instead of enough gems to actually just get the next pass, so I kinda have to do it 
twilit canyon
i was in ur boat
and then i saw $1k deposited into my bank account and i forgot
well ok its not gonna be 1k when taxes roll around but u know
still
also some formats are just kinda nice
trail anvil
I like money
I don't like playing with low power inconsistent stuff
unless it's pauper/artisan, but then those have consistency
twilit canyon
pauper is insanely consistent yea
trail anvil
well I mean hpauper/alchemy pauper/standard pauper
I can't speak for actual pauper cause that's not on arena
twilit canyon
paper pauper is insanely consistent
arena pauper should have some consistent decks
i know we have like 95% of mono blue faeries
we are just missing cantrips that are replaced by ones we have on arena and spellstutter sprite
twilit canyon
whats in historic pauper in black?
trail anvil
actually that might be artisan
twilit canyon
probs
trail anvil
but pauper should have a ton of stuff too
in artisan you get alchemy bs too so it's nice
twilit canyon
static discharge broke
trail anvil
like [[cursebound witch]] legit is busted
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twilit canyon
oh yea for sure
trail anvil
ok this isn't as impactful sounding without the spellbook but it's full of rares
twilit canyon
it has 2 rares and a mythic iirc
i know most of the spellbook
curse of leeches and cruel reality ik for sure
trail anvil
and uncommons that are bonkers a lot of the time, like trespasser's curse
twilit canyon
i think witchs vengeance?
trail anvil
yeah that just shits on boards
twilit canyon
idt artisan has a 3 toughness board wipe otherwise
trail anvil
stg wizards just threw darts at a board making this spellbook
twilit canyon
ngl kind of sad to see cat oven completely disappear form historic
trail anvil
in hpauper by contrast I think my best deck was bant defenders?
twilit canyon
*from
trail anvil
ngl kind of sad to see cat oven completely disappear form historic
could it just come back at this point
twilit canyon
its legal
trail anvil
o
twilit canyon
cat cant block thats it
trail anvil
wait is jund/rakdos sac not s thing
trail anvil
oof
twilit canyon
historic hit a modern-lite power level
u cant be playing sacrifice without playing yawgmoth combo
and yawgmoth doesnt care about cat oven
or mayhem
cus u dont kill any faster
trail anvil
oof
trail anvil
ig that's what happens when you put modern horizons cards in there
twilit canyon
yup
also interesting shift in creature decks in historic
wizards almost all fly or can trample
humans got jirina
u dont outpace shelly
spirits (cope) also fly
angels (cope) also fly
trail anvil
isn't explorer full of spirits
twilit canyon
nah
spirits kinda shit in explorer
drogskok captain saves them a bit in historic
*drogskol
trail anvil
shit I need to play more cause I ran into that deck twice and cried lmao
twilit canyon
explorer is worse historic by a lot rn
pioneer is just that in general
format is so solved
and anything new gets eaten up by rakdos midrange or devotion ramp
after like a week or 2 when they side in for new decks
trail anvil
oof
twilit canyon
the new boros token deck?
insta dies to a well times end the festivities
they get greedy on u? [[electrickery]]
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Instant
Electrickery deals 1 damage to target creature you don't control.
Overload 
(You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change its text by replacing all instances of "target" with "each.")
twilit canyon
instantly delete them with 1 cheap trick
they callin it the new hogaak deck for a minute but the deck is so shit into rakdos
it also doesnt kill fast enough at times to beat lotus combo so lol
trail anvil
did you hear they're bringing hidden strings to explorer soon™
trail anvil
ye
twilit canyon
ppl will need to temper their expectations about lotus combo in historic tho
format can actually handle it a lot better
lotus combo cant ever beat historic wizards
that deck can t3 u if u dont interact
it also never really has to play into humans with jirina, esper sentinel, thalia and inquisitor captain
rakdos mid in historic is also still destroying combo decks like it
trail anvil
why do complicated thing 10% of the time when you can do reliable thing 80% of the time
twilit canyon
kethis is also nuts in historic and like. the deck can work in pio/explorer
atomic harness
are you gamers talking about that convoke elephant deck
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twilit canyon
kethis in historic has the benefit of stuff like reezug
ive seen some lists splash crucias and or jarsyl
trail anvil
maybe if they ever do another all access historic event 
I can try kethis combo again
twilit canyon
kethis evolved a lot yea
rona, jace, tyvar, reezug, crucias, jarsyl
u dont run all of em at all times
but the fact u need to consider all of them?
- mana base
kinnan and emry too
if u dont have em from before
trail anvil
wait crucias? so you just go 5c now instead of 4?
twilit canyon
some builds do
cus crucias can dump and find specifics
discard 3 mana -> get to jace guaranteed
jarsyl too
cus jarsyl can recast stuff like springleaf and skrelv
and then 2 drops
also makes things artifacts for emry
err
thats reezug
twilit canyon
no
perfected mind
its the new wincon
mills you out entirely
then the opponent
jwom is fine still but new jace is better here
trail anvil
ah gotcha
rigid scarab
Sitting here against a Jeskai Cycle roper
How are your days going
Ooh he mistimed the pass priority
Sick
trail anvil
how does one rope with jeskai cycling, it's hard to think of a more one note deck besides trickery cheese
rigid scarab
He just eternally held up mana for cycling
trail anvil
I thought that was a lot of jeskai dragons until I realized how they divided up rakdos and grixis
sleek ferry
I’ve been saying it man, Jeskai Dragons is the future
Zurgo and Ojutai is such a bitch to deal with
sleek ferry
I mean the banlist is Monday, and Rakdos is 100% losing cards
So yeah, it’s the future
mystic aspen
Attended Friday Night Magic at my locals. Got these from the pack I bought to participate, plus the promo pack.
lusty trench
Wrenn and realmbreaker is a good pull
sudden lava
oof, cant seem to find a single on the pride sol ring 
and the whole secret lair is going for 53 dollars
oh mtg goldfish has it for 20 dollars!? Worth?
lusty trench
and the whole secret lair is going for 53 dollars
thats hella worth it
shit has a mana confluence
sudden lava
yeah but like this is something Im asking someone else to get as a gift, that price may be a bit much even though I like a lot of the cards in it.
especially the green cards and pride ring
lusty trench
ah thats fair
hidden ermine
Because clearly we can only have one lesbian ship be happy at a time
Gruulfriends is that one, so dinobots had to be broken up
Wizards suck
golden plover
When was the last time we saw a mlm couple?
WAR? Midnight Hunt?
WAR was the last time both got cards iirc, and Midnight Hunt was the last time we even saw a gay guy
last glen
When was the last time we saw a mlm couple?
multi-level marketing?
twilit canyon
there is always at least a gay couple in any given magic set
because you, the players, are gay
sudden lava
foils have rainbows 
glad peak
Huh I actually read what dihada did in a while and damn
I really did forget how strong her minus is [[dihada, binder]]
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sudden lava
absolute nuke, but is a -11
sudden lava
the treasure one is also really good, Im just imagining dying to your own stuff off that -11
sleek ferry
Any updates on day 1 of the arena championships?
I saw a cool little boros deck that was undefeated after round 4
twilit canyon
Huh I actually read what dihada did in a while and damn
yea i wish she was modern legal ngl
glad peak
She would’ve made breach a bit more prevalent which may be a good or bad thing, unsure yet
twilit canyon
u would need to play black in your jeskai breach deck
and no one wants to do that
but itd be a solid card for modern anyhow i think
glad peak
But yeah I was looking for a deck that can move between oathbreaker and cedh and I think she’s it
(Even taking into account oathbreaker’s banned cards, which would be put aside whenever playing oathbreaker)
sleek ferry
Does 4 colors ever feel good tbh? Feel like even when we had 4c elementals, people eventually moved to 5c
glad peak
In modern or cedh?
sleek ferry
Modern
glad peak
In modern I think 4c is still worth, black doesn’t really have much to offer for the deck other than thoughtseizes (which I’m not sure if they even ran at 5c) and some cheaper interaction
sleek ferry
I can’t even think of a 4 color cedh deck that’s not a partner combo off the top of my head
glad peak
There’s Breya, Omnath, and Yidris
Not always the best options but playable and depends on the pod
trail anvil
in cedh?
glad peak
Yep
clever sun
Oh did you build the jank DnT list?
clever sun
Unfortunate
sleek ferry
Alright, I make my last push for mythic tonight
sudden lava
mystic aspen
I wish they would put down a more realistic price. 0.35 is the lowest price you can buy something at on Cardkingdom...
zinc shard
Oh boy Commanders Quarters..
glad peak
You can do an 11 cent commander deck with ashling and all basic mountains
modern minnow
vendor tried to buy a fetch off me for £3 and a fierce guardianship for £10
lusty trench
Bruh
golden plover
He just knows about the secret stealth reprints you don't, clearly
lusty trench
He knows about them commander masters reprints clearly
sudden lava
You can do an 11 cent commander deck with ashling and all basic mountains
it would blow itself up 
even injures yourself
lusty trench
My reaction to this image: that is a fucking cool sword that better have its own equipment card
fallow citrus
that is a cool ass sword
hidden ermine
Why are those norse runes
burnt relic
anduril my beloved
sleek ferry
Btw I’m surprised nobody mentioned
Only 2 rakdos made top 8 of AC3
Antonio Abreu: Selesnya Enchantments
Benjamin Broadstone: Rakdos Breach
Shota Kuze: Five-color Ramp
Ondřej Stráský: Jeskai Dragons
Noham Maubert: Azorius Soldiers
Luciano Pellegrino: Rakdos Midrange
Tim Schuafert: Mono-White Aggro
Austin Bursavich: Jeskai Dragons
Like I said, Jeskai Dragons is the future
twilit canyon
2 and 2 when rakdos was the most prepared for deck
and jeskai dragons is a totally new archetype
lusty trench
Someone ping me when the banlist comes out
trail anvil
well that should be tomorrow
trail anvil
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/1662881429074657280
fuck all the haters, this art is amazing
like you could hang this in a museum
zinc shard
copper pecan
genuinely don't understand how people can get so worked up about this
like how fucking pathetic do you have to be to get mad about aragorn being black
it doesn't matter at all and has no effect on anything
twilit canyon
blue check mark
twilit canyon
it doesn't matter at all and has no effect on anything
"muh culture erased"
Twitter
rigid scarab
Could we not just say that the set is based on the books
I feel like that would resolve
Almost all conflict
twilit canyon
no ones culture is being erased
ppl are just flipping the script of cultural appropriation
u should look at some of the culture erasure replies
90% of them are from racist accounts the other from troll accounts named like uncle toms posting or whatnot
waxen timber
Could we not just say that the set is based on the books
I think Aragorn is decribed as being white in the books
rigid scarab
Yeah
Your skin being pale could just mean your scared
It actually usually means your scared
twilit canyon
non-white ppl can be pale in general
waxen timber
I think that it is a bit stretching to say that Aragorn was ever intended to be Black. Like if you take the context of tolkien's enviroment, I think it is pretty likely he meant white when he said pale
twilit canyon
there is no direct intention to have him be black
waxen timber
It's not bad to switch up the race, I like this design
twilit canyon
but the point being that artistic interpretation here doesnt matter since source material doesnt exactly specify
sleek ferry
Should also be noted it’s a fictional character
Unless race/skin color is vital to their character, an artist is free to interpret it however they want
It’s like how when people threw a shitstorm when they made L black for the death note movie
waxen timber
Dracula in Bram Stoker's novel was a weird looking dude that was alluring despite his appereance. In the 1931 Dracula film, they turned him from weird looking to handsome.
From then on, Dracula was mostly depicted as handsome. It is not wrong to change stuff. Especially when it works better and the change becomes standard
Trying to gaslight people that Aragorn wasn't white is cringe though
Just as cringe as when JK tried to say Heromine was Black in the books
clever sun
No one is gaslighting anyone that Aragorn wasn't white because there was no set race color for Aragorn
Big tip here: it's not worth playing devil's advocate. He has enough of them already.
sleek ferry
Like I said, nothing about Aragorn’s characterization makes him being white relevant, so why does it even matter?
He could have been portrayed as a green skinned dude by whoever drew him and it would have been fine
dense berry
went undefeated in a cedh tournament today with breya
twilit canyon
what are u playing
im currently more focused on historic and limited but i know my way around standard well
sleek ferry
Legitly just dusted off grixis Vamps and went on a crazy run
But last 3 matches I had unlucky mulligans
twilit canyon
u aint gonna go too far into high diamond/mythic with off meta in standard rn unless u play extremely well
sleek ferry
Another thing I noticed, going first in a meta with fable just feels so advantageous
trail anvil
yeah understandable cause the more your fable resolves the more advantage you get
first chapter is just pure value, second chapter is filtering and potentially setup, third chapter is an extremely scary piece that snowballs value (especially with stuff like bloodtithe)
lusty trench
I'm assuming fable is gonna get banned
trail anvil
you don't need to assume, it's 100%
even if they for some godforsaken reason miss it on the list tomorrow, the outcry will be so harsh that they have to ban it on an e-list, there's no way
I do really hope they take out wedding announcement too though, for the sake of board wipes
atomic harness
Misty, caster do you prefer cmc or mana value
granite badge
cmc
atomic harness
me too
sleek ferry
Yeah, fable is gone 10000%
Like there could be 1 hit on this list and it will undoubtedly be fable
twilit canyon
Misty, caster do you prefer cmc or mana value
mv
sleek ferry
I like cmc
dense berry
cmc
sudden lava
June coming means lotr stuff is almost out
atomic harness
my deck lived 
golden plover
Yup. No slaughter, just hit the three biggest ones
Is Rakdos still fine?
Its got Shelly and Bloodtithe
clever sun
Yes and no
golden plover
Also Esper just comes back right? Iirc Rakdos was the only thing holding it back
atomic harness
misty and caster is it time to dust off raffine
atomic harness
Nyaruhodo
clever sun
If Jeskai and Esper are good then aggro gets better and the meta should stablize again fron there
Rakdos won't be dead
I think I agree with Misty when she had said the Triomes should have been banned too but it's a fine hit list regardless
Even if I do think Sheoldred will make aggro decks struggle
Oh and we get another list August 7th?
Cool
zinc shard
oh boy 12 free Rares!
trail anvil
I think I agree with Misty when she had said the Triomes should have been banned...
I don't think the triomes should've been banned, but I'd like to have seen thalia and wedding announcement die
esper legends I think is a lot more fine to exist without thalia taxing the heck out of everything else and announcement is just a huge monowhite value card
that fake leak list treated us too well 
twilit canyon
thalia is a fair and honest card
if she had been banned i think standard immediately collapses
lusty trench
I've never looked at tax Thalia as anything too bad
golden plover
Forge works for singleplayer
golden plover
Arena but drafts aren't free
inland folio
or do i need to actually play irl for that
golden plover
Forge has ai and is good for practicing new draft formats
But Arena is better for playing with actual people
But you also have to pay real life money to draft
inland folio
in arena?
golden plover
Yeah
Technically you can earn the coins to do it
But it's like maybe once a week if you're not really good at draft
fallow citrus
mtgo and mtga have drafts
golden plover
MTGO always costs real money
Arena just mostly costs real money
MTGO has the best selection behind forge tho (you can do custom drafts there)
twilit canyon
mtgo is also fucking dog as a platform
golden plover
True. It's like forge's gui, but worse
fallow citrus
it's okay but if I could choose arena to have other formats on it I'd choose that instead
I don't mind it tbh
also don't you need to use gems to draft
golden plover
Can't you use coins?
IIRC it's a really high amount
But I think you can draft with coins
Fuck it. Time to make bad draft formats
Honestly, worst draft format I've played (on tabletop sim) was Alpha
Alpha draft is UNIRONICALLY MISERABLE
It's just "did you draft channel fireball? Nope" and "check to see who has the most fogs"
twilit canyon
its 10k coins for arena drafts
golden plover
Went 5-2 against the bots
Turns out ramp and removal doesn't do enough without a top end that isn't Emrakul
golden plover
It's easier than it seems
lusty trench
My heehoo brain upon looking at a draft pack that holds a rare worth more than £1 that will absolutely destroy me if I pick
golden plover
That's half the issue in draft, yeah
"do I want the good card or the $ card"
And the money card could be like $3
mystic aspen
genuinely don't understand how people can get so worked up about this
Ugh. Yeah people are getting far too worked up about this.
Like, if this was like a certain documentary I would get it, but this is fiction. People need to chill out a bit about fiction, and just don't consume it if they don't like it.
polar lake
how would Valki God of Lies do in the "Discard, Bitch" deck? its a risk but it gets rid of basically all the creatures in your opponents hand
twilit canyon
it only gets rid of 1 creature
i think hes fine though
hes good on t2 and good on t7 or whenever you manage to get to 7 mana
dense berry
Ugh. Yeah people are getting far too worked up about this.
Like, if this was lik...
apparently the topic of "how racist was LotR/Tolkien" is a pretty hotly debated topic so i guess it makes sense that some people are up in arms about it
from a bit of reading on the subject it seems the answer is "less racist than the average for the time period it was written in"
in fact polyculturalism is a major overarching theme of middle earth
mystic aspen
Lotr was like 1940s - 1950s right?
dense berry
i think the first book is from '37
im certainly no expert though dont quote me on that
im not entirely sure how much racial diversity exists or was intended between the different species of sentient folk in middle earth but it doesnt seem like Tolkien ever really cared to go into the details on that
i suppose if there is anything to be up in arms with in regards to this is that its just more racial pandering from wotc. marketing racial revisionism to sell a product is still racism. i believe somebody mentioned Hermione's racial transition to being black after both the books and the movies depicted her as white because diversity was (is) trendy at the time.
dense berry
whats an expy
oh character insert?
so thats actually a decent topic because in the books herm has a decent few character flaws that makes me less likely to believe shes a character insert for JKR
but the director of the movies went on record saying herm is his favorite character and thus her flaws were reduced and her strengths increased in the films, making her slightly more of a mary sue but only as far as the movies go
mystic aspen
Oh, it was the director that started moving stuff from Herm to Ron?
dense berry
anyway iirc JKR greenlighted emma wattson as the actress to play herm so clearly herm was never actually originally intended to be black, whereas tolkien had no input at all about Aragorn being depicted one way or the other in the LOTR movies
dense berry
Oh, it was the director that started moving stuff from Herm to Ron?
and vice versa
iirc when sorcerers stone released the fanbase's favorite character was ron
so a lot of rons positive attributes were also moved to herm
anyway i think more people watched the LOTR movies and their mental image of Aragorn is of Viggo Mortensen, regardless of what the books say about his appearance
so when you have a super fan of the franchise who is to be expected to be excited to see their favorite characters printed on mtg cards, having said character not look the way they expect could cause some confusion
i think if they ever printed harry potter mtg cards hermione would 100% look like emma wattson since its the appearance that comes to mind for most fans of that IP
similar to how the Walking Dead secret lair characters all kinda look like their appearance in the show
copper pecan
there's zero chance they're ever gonna do harry potter cards
dense berry
yes zero chance the money loving hasbro ever tries to cash in on an extraordinarily high grossing IP
0%
not really the point i was making though
sleek ferry
Eh, they’re still fictional characters. Even if you have a mental image of what you think they should look like, appearance usually has to do very little with why people enjoy a certain character, it’s the characterization itself
Aragorn is still Aragorn whether he’s presented as white, black, brown, purple, green, it doesn’t matter
dense berry
hmm well i certainly agree with the sentiment
but
say they printed a card for a character in an ip you like
idk what you like so lets just say its Han Solo from star wars
then they show the artwork for the han solo card is of an anime girl
does your excitement for the Han Solo in mtg change? does it stay the same?
they still made the millennium falcon fly in under 15 parsecs
just because its not harrison forde and is instead idk bocci or something
waxen timber
It all matters about execution. If people like tge anime girl depiction of Han Solo better, it might stick. There is nothing that han solo needs to be a man for
sleek ferry
I would think it’s cool that they gave us a different take on a character we all have seen before. I look at it as let’s say the Spider-Man multiverse; you have all these different spidermans from different eras/worlds/etc, they’re all extremely different from each other, but they’re all “Spider-Man” at the end of the day
waxen timber
It will be hard since you are fighting againist the original perception but, if you execute it well, we could end up with anime girl Han Solo
dense berry
that struggle against the initial perception is the reason there are so many people up in arms
im not saying theyre right tbh ive never seen lotr
but its pretty clear that a large amount of people cant overcome that
sleek ferry
Well now you’re discussing something else entirely from what’s happening though. Struggle against perception vs flat out racism aren’t the same thing
If you look at that Twitter post, majority of people are just flat out upset that he’s not white, not that he’s not presented in Viggo’s image
So the question we should be asking is
If Aragorn wasn’t presented in Viggo’s image, and was just random white dude
Would people care as much?
waxen timber
sleek ferry
I don’t think they would, which is where the issue comes
waxen timber
This was Aragon in a 1980 film
There is racism but, I don't think it is all racism when commenting on how he looks
dense berry
well i think caring is on a gradient that is proportional to how much the initial perception lines up with the end result
if aragorn was just some white dude that would still line up slightly more with the initial perception
and of course you have to factor in the bell curve here there are always gonna be the sad saps who are just in it for the racial depictions one way or the other
its just as racist to want aragorn to be black arbitrarily as it is to want aragorn to be white arbitrarily
sleek ferry
Nobody asked for Aragorn to be black though? That was the artist’s depiction of him, and that’s cool
twilit canyon
it is not just as racist to make aragorn black arbitrarily
sleek ferry
We’re really killing the artist for their interpretation of again a FICTIONAL character
People are acting like this is a biopic of an irl person
twilit canyon
there is a major imbalance in that thought process since white is the standard on how a character is presented
dense berry
i never said anything about the artist, the art is actually really good as far as modern mtg goes imo
sleek ferry
Look at the dumbass replies under this tweet for example https://twitter.com/alecjfields/status/1663014404307185664?s=46&t=DdUsqNPs-c3IFDRYOhiq8A
dense berry
there is a major imbalance in that thought process since white is the standard o...
can you expand upon this
twilit canyon
right. the issue here isnt that aragorn is black. its the reaction to it. its where the imbalance lies. if he was white, no one would bat an eye. no one would be upset that hes not black.
dense berry
thats because it would line up with initial perception
if they printed a Black Panther card and mad tchalla a white dude there would be just as much outrage
waxen timber
If he was Black in previous depictions then was changed to White, there would be a lot more people upset than now
twilit canyon
correct and the initial perception is there bc white is the standard perception for fictional characters
twilit canyon
yes
twilit canyon
If he was Black in previous depictions then was changed to White, there would be...
falae equivalence since tchalla is based off a real country and place
dense berry
according to whom i must ask
sleek ferry
Hold up, you just compared black panther, who being black is extremely relevant to this character
mystic aspen
Like, I get some jaringness in regards to Fury, going from the MCU to the older comics versions.
sleek ferry
To Aragorn whose skin color has 0 to do with his character
dense berry
okay lets change the character example to like Blade or something
twilit canyon
wakanda is entirely inspired by africa and the story works only bc he is black and the hero and culture are based off a real place
that would be whitwashing
rigid scarab
It's not a wild take to say that white is the default skin colour for fictional characters
dense berry
blade is based off of vampire hunter d
hidden ermine
if they printed a Black Panther card and mad tchalla a white dude there would be...
Slightly different context, but take for example Doom. Doom is specifically an Eastern european Romani. Yet his depictions, in movies, in artwork, in cartoons, never have him really be such
dense berry
who is initially a white character
hidden ermine
And people don't super mind
twilit canyon
blade could be white
dense berry
blade could be white but i guarantee you you would see a lot of the same outrage you see here with aragorn
hidden ermine
(Mostly because the part they change is him being Eastern european mostly, the Romani thing can be handwaved given his mask)
twilit canyon
even then the original blade story carries some racial tones that are lost bc he would be white
and said outrage would be huge bc minorities do not get nearly as many characters to identify as or with
dense berry
It's not a wild take to say that white is the default skin colour for fictional ...
i never personally thought of it that way but im not white so idk
twilit canyon
but even that outrage wouldnt get vitrol of the same degree that aragorn being made black is getting
hidden ermine
Likewise, Scarlet Witch is supposed to be Serbian, you don't really see that either
mystic aspen
(Mostly because the part they change is him being Eastern european mostly, the R...
I would not be surprised if a lot of people simply couldn't differentiate between Europeans tbh.
twilit canyon
ppl do get upset that a fictional black or minority character gets played by a white actor all the time it already happens anyhow. but never to the point of having such an insane melt down over it like with aragorn here
hidden ermine
If it isn't a context where the characters race is important, and isn't part of a larger context of whitewashing within media, people don't tend to care about changes to appearance
twilit canyon
or in the past, when nick fury was made black
hidden ermine
I would not be surprised if a lot of people simply couldn't differentiate betwee...
Non-europeans, sure, but Europeans do exist lmao
dense berry
ppl do get upset that a fictional black or minority character gets played by a w...
i really do have to ask how youre coming to this conclusion
hidden ermine
or in the past, when nick fury was made black
That one I especially don't get, black Nick Fury was such an upgrade
dense berry
people melt down over literally anything
twilit canyon
... i look at the comment section of any art depicting aragorn as black?
ppl are outright being racist in there
dense berry
That one I especially don't get, black Nick Fury was such an upgrade
Sam Jackson makes anything better, regardless of race
mystic aspen
Non-europeans, sure, but Europeans do exist lmao
Yeah, I know. I'm guessing a good amount of the vocal fanbase are Americans however.
twilit canyon
its not even just ppl going "ok but why is he black?" its ppl outright making racist comments
hidden ermine
Oh and part why its not really possible to compare this stuff 1 to 1 to whitewashing is that, precisely due to minorities being so underrepresented, historically minority characters being minorities was an important part to their character
waxen timber
falae equivalence since tchalla is based off a real country and place
I think Aragorn was based off some Danish king
dense berry
... i look at the comment section of any art depicting aragorn as black?
again i think this is ignoring a lot of examples of the inverse. one that comes to mind is when pokemon swsh came out the character nessa was drawn by Hews as a white girl palette swap and people absolutely melted down
and nessas race is utterly unimportant to her character
twilit canyon
and im p sure hews did it entirely to troll
dense berry
(shes black if you're unfamiliar)
twilit canyon
not to mention here that im not sure what your point is with this now
dense berry
im saying that people will react similarly whether the change is one way or the other
twilit canyon
ok but again. when its done the other way, do ppl respond with vitrol and racism and false equivalencies?
twilit canyon
ppl werent being racist when nessa was raceswapped
ppl are being incredibly racist when aragorn was raceswapped
dense berry
well there are a few things to say about this and the first is lets not revise history, people were absolutely upset about the Nessa race swap just like Aragorn
the second is that at the time nessa was a newly established character while Aragorn has been a character people have known and grown up knowing
dense berry
im not defending anybody
what
you think because i disagree with you that im defending random twitter racists?
twilit canyon
then u should stop playing devils advocate over this
what do u disagree with? that ppl are racist over aragorn?
dense berry
this is why i dont use twitter for anything other than boobs lol
twilit canyon
or that ppl are having an extreme meltdown over this?
mystic aspen
what do u disagree with? that ppl are racist over aragorn?
That people aren't having meltdowns just as bad when the situation is reversed.
From what I understand
twilit canyon
they arent having meltdowns just as bad when the situation is reversed
that is true
dense berry
are you intentionally misreading
twilit canyon
because its incredibly difficult to be racist towards the majority
twilit canyon
racism is due to power imbalance
mystic aspen
Now that's an entirely different debate
twilit canyon
no it isnt
rigid scarab
Is this a "I'm not racist, I'm prejudiced" thing
twilit canyon
correct
waxen timber
It is pretty easy to be racist towards a "majority" because majority is contexual
twilit canyon
thats prejudice
twilit canyon
it isnt but it comes from a place of power and societal differences
me calling a white person a cracker doesnt hold the same weight as them calling me the various slurs they have for me
dense berry
slurs carry the weight of their individual connotations
and <redacted> is in fact a very bad one
sleek ferry
Oh I came in at a good time
twilit canyon
@clever sun come laugh at this one w me
sleek ferry
Misty is 100% correct
rigid scarab
Actually I think that's game set and match right there
You cared enough to reserve saying out the slurs
sleek ferry
You can’t be racist towards white people, because racism requires you to be in a position of power in order to execute it
rigid scarab
But you can use cracker just fine
dense berry
ill say anything for the sake of discussion
its not like any of us are arguing on the side of racism
rigid scarab
You can’t be racist towards white people, because racism requires you to be in a...
Well "Can't be racist towards white people" depends on the country
sleek ferry
The examples of racism towards white people is usually other whites berating a different group of whites
waxen timber
its not like any of us are arguing on the side of racism
I would say the one who is saying it is okay to say racial slurs towards white people is the one advocating racism lol
sleek ferry
But a person of color can never be racist towards a white person as they have no power to execute said racism.
rigid scarab
So they can't be racist towards white people
They can just hate white people really really really really hard
dense berry
these are takes
sleek ferry
Correct, because racism inherently requires power.
copper pecan
whether or not you call it racism is irrelevant, it's still bad
rigid scarab
We all are
mystic aspen
But a person of color can never be racist towards a white person as they have no...
I don't think this is something you can make an absolute statement about.
Power dynamics change when contexts do.
rigid scarab
But the country I'm in has large systemic hatred towards Eurasians
Hell there's a common soft slur for them
mystic aspen
Hell there's a common soft slur for them
||Gweilou?||
rigid scarab
||Gweilou?||
||Ang Moh is what I hear||
mystic aspen
That too
sleek ferry
Power dynamics can change contexts, but we know that history tells us that white people have always been in said positions of power, and every current non-white country is always trying to obtain the white approval.
copper pecan
why do you want an excuse to hate people
sleek ferry
Examples of this are Argentina’s genocide against non-white Argentinians
copper pecan
there is no situation in which it's okay to insult people based on their ethnicity
sleek ferry
I’m not excusing anything, I’m giving you a lesson on why me and Misty feel the way we do. Why BLM happened.
copper pecan
it doesn't matter if they're in power or not, if the person is actually doing something bad then insult them for doing something bad instead of just for what their ethnicity is
insulting their ethnicity accomplishes nothing and just makes you look worse while also attacking a bunch of unrelated people who didn't do anything
mystic aspen
but we know that history tells us that white people have always been in said positions of power,
Whose history?
copper pecan
also the entire world is not the west
there are plenty of places where white people aren't the majority
dense berry
systematic racism but the system is undefined?
twilit canyon
majority of history yes
rigid scarab
insulting their ethnicity accomplishes nothing and just makes you look worse whi...
Is this where we get into Sins of The Father
clever sun
Oh man I almost just insantly banned Loot out of fight or flight when I saw that comment
dense berry
(i promise i had a good reason)
copper pecan
i'm not talking about systematic anything here, i'm talking about individual people's actions
you are still responsible for what you say
dense berry
ill delete my own use of the word for posterity im not meaning to insult anybody when im using the word in this discussion
this is for reducing ignorance, not perpetuating it
clever sun
Salt, I get your point, but this is not the point that anyone here is making or justifying
clever sun
lol
twilit canyon
is it wrong to insult others based on their ethnicity? yeah obviously