especially since they made all 4 precons blue
#Magic the Gathering
sudden lava
twilit canyon
u get double win pips per metal rank until plat
ye
plat is the benchmark
anything above is pretty inconsequential
unless u aim for free invites to top tier events
such as me
i dont need to participate in qualifiers
and i get free entry to arena opens and comp events since i am given play points for ending in the top 1500 mythic
hidden ermine
I doubt I have the time to devote to the game for that
twilit canyon
im slowly approaching a point where i wont with grad school coming up so i am enjoying the ride while i can
i will say
once u hit mythic, its easy to get back
from plat 4 to mythic is relatively easy
historic heavily rewards sequencing and proper play
so long as ur deck is reasonable, it can hit mythic
granite badge
I have to deal with a 7 day workweek hell until middle of June
I haven't had time to do basically anytjing I've wanted to do recently
twilit canyon
ninjas do a great job at stomping slower aggro and mediocre midrange/control
and a combo/synergy deck? dead on the spot
more properly built decks
u do well vs everything p much
but no overwhelmingly good match ups
except vs control
control cannot beat ninjas to save their lives
hidden ermine
I mean so far I am running into stuff like mono-G stompy or wack-ass lifegain decks
A lot of wack-ass lifegain decks
twilit canyon
yea slow aggro and synergy decks
u win those so fast cus they dont deploy enough threats and interaction to survive your pressure
hidden ermine
Btw does it make sense at all to get that golden pack thing?
hidden ermine
I dont think Ill play any format but historic
twilit canyon
it gives u a ton more cards for the formats
even if ur all in on historic/explorer and maybe h-brawl, gladiator, and the historic pauper or artisan formats it can be worth cracking the latest standard set
at least
when its like right now with mom
multiverse legends sheet is on arena and gives u an extra uncommon/rare/mythic legend
of which a good amount are historic playable
like sram, kroxa, emry
baral has niche use
brothers war had the retro artifact sheet
with wurmcoil engine, sword of the meek, soul-guide lantern, altar of dementia, ashnod's altar
a few other cards and such
hidden ermine
Man I really should replace Drown in the Lochs for now
The card does nothing against these decks
twilit canyon
basically if the bonus sheet of the latest standard deck has historic cards
its worth pulling
for the occasional standard playables like fable, raffine, emperor, dual lands and gold pack value
hidden ermine
... so what does it mean if the game loaded but we dont even have the mulligan yet
twilit canyon
yea my bad i totally forgot to send an edited decklist without drown
hidden ermine
Did it crash on my end?
twilit canyon
opponent may be choosing to go 1st or 2nd
hidden ermine
Oh no wait, its using up their time
hidden ermine
I think theyre just afk
twilit canyon
rip lol
it happens
i sometimes queue up and then go to the bathroom
come back and im already in the game on the mull screen
hidden ermine
Thats one way to get silver
hidden ermine
Also I love when I get a ninja hand thats just all removal and no gas
Guess Im a control deck now
twilit canyon
made up for it cus my win and in last season was a game that used up the entire fucking timer
both of us went to 1 minute left on our clocks
its the true rakdos vs azorius experience
i had my rb deck tailored for aggro and barely pulled thru w the dub
hidden ermine
Ah, didnt play around wizards lightning
twilit canyon
wizards are powerful cus they get access to lightning bolt in a format where u dont often need to play around it
hidden ermine
Tbh I just put him in cuz I had one
twilit canyon
infiltrator and hacker fix all your draw needs with faerie seer
u just need to find removal and 0 mana 4/4 generators
hidden ermine
... man I hate when I have to think about keeping a 1-lander with Faerie Seer
hidden ermine
I mean the hand is cracked otherwise, but the one land worries me
hidden ermine
On the play
hidden ermine
Damn, punished
twilit canyon
vs removal tribal in any case
no
vs aggro? yes
oh also if u have moon-circuit
its an auto keep unless they got t1 removal
hidden ermine
Yikes I got punished real bad
twilit canyon
cus hacker will get u scry 2 and then drW
hidden ermine
Turn 3, still no land
twilit canyon
u can also make do with 1 land if u have thopter + retrofitter
twilit canyon
ez
ezez
never didnt have it
just draw moon circuit hacker and go to the moon with advantage
literally
hidden ermine
I assume Sultai explore isnt a real deck
Looked like just an Ixalan deck
Even had the hostage taker
copper pecan
it's based but it's really bad
glad peak
Yep
hidden ermine
I see
Good thing I didnt counter then
But yeah this deck is exactly as fun as I hoped it would be
hidden ermine
Oh
This deck just loses to mill huh
They doubled Tashas Laughter and I had only removal left in the deck
twilit canyon
This deck just loses to mill huh
yea kinda
u kinda have to keep up on counter magic vs them
g2 and 3 it gets a lot easier
but in bo1
it depends on if u open spell pierces and make disappear
hidden ermine
Mmh
I see now why you mentioned Wizards as being good
They just suddenly win the game sometimes
... there is a Griselbrand combo deck using indomitable creativity?
I didnt even know Griselbrand was in historic
copper pecan
he got added pretty recently
hidden ermine
I see
twilit canyon
... there is a Griselbrand combo deck using indomitable creativity?
yea i shared a list a bit ago
this
twilit canyon
its playing historic on hard mode
since u are a worse combo than kethis
but not nearly as grindy to compensate
nor are u as consistent
so whats the appeal?
it catches ppl off guard
and doesnt lose to the same card kethis does
hidden ermine
I mean I get that, but it looks super linear
fallow citrus
welcome to creativity
hidden ermine
Also wow, my opponent hard-drew all 4 Elvish Clan-callers by turn 4
Sometimes they just have it huh
twilit canyon
yup
also yea wizards are just insane cus they can just make u explode out of nowhere
hidden ermine
Ok Im confused, I just ran into a Treasure Hunt deck that seems to have tried to use ivory tower and aetherflux reservoir to win?
lost widgetBOT
Land
You have no maximum hand size.
: Add 
.
Once guarded by the Knights of the Reliquary, the tower stands now protected only by its own remoteness, its dusty treasures open to plunder by anyone.
hidden ermine
Oh right
Also god running into a mono-B discard deck when your topdecking luck is awful is not fun
hidden ermine
Oh hey, gold
clever sun
Miners in California during the 1820s
hidden ermine
Honestly I can probably get plat in a couple of days
Its pretty fast compared to other card games
trail anvil
there's no fucking way
last glen
I don't get it
atomic harness
Lodestone golem put in some nice work today 
Got a few edh dubs, mostly involved getting down t3-t4 urza then beating ppl up w menace constructs while using instants or stax to stop em
sleek ferry
Got a few edh dubs, mostly involved getting down t3-t4 urza then beating ppl up ...
Welcome to becoming the stax player 
fallow citrus
what's the meta for standard looking like rn
twilit canyon
midrange value piles on rbx
fallow citrus
ah so nothing has really changed then
hidden ermine
How long do seasons last usually, are they monthly?
twilit canyon
yes
dense berry
dont become a stax player
its the weakest archetype in cedh and its not really the point in casual unless everyone is about it
glad peak
Just play midrange/turbo with some stax pieces
lusty trench
Play combo but do it wrong
Deck yourself
Give everyone else like 50 cards in hand
glad peak
Full on stax is kind of bad especially since people are ready for it nowadays
Decking yourself is the correct way to combo 
lusty trench
No no but like
Don't put thassas in there
Or lab or the one jace
(I have unironically lost a game to archmage emeritus decking me)
glad peak
Just “forget” the triggers
(I know you can’t but OOF some people really tried to pull that on me)
lusty trench
I'm the friend that reminds others of their triggers, including positive
glad peak
Yeah, there’s one guy who keeps trying to say he “forgets” his chalice trigger when it comes to his own cards but no one else’s
lusty trench
Cringe
dense berry
never said its not fun
i love stax too
it is objectively an uphill battle though
winota is the worst performing "top tier" deck
glad peak
And winota’s the stax deck that actually solves a stax issue of having to stack pieces things too slowly
It looks like the best stax right now is midrange in disguise
glad peak
She has red that’s all you need, right?
twilit canyon
lowkey green and black would be way crazier for winota
dense berry
imagine trying to compete without having thoracle combo
glad peak
Very easy, barely an inconvenience
sudden lava
wait when is spoiler season gonna be approximately for the upcoming 8 commander decks?
I know we got teased a little bit, but like I wanna see more cards 😅
dense berry
my friend is buying a collector booster box of commander legends
we're gonna try to trade it up as far as possible
would be funny to get a dual land or something
sudden lava
the 8 being the commander masters and WHO stuff
zinc shard
atomic harness
its the weakest archetype in cedh and its not really the point in casual unless ...
oh yeah im not going full stax I just have incidental stax pieces since they're utility artifact creatures, not really playing cedh
so only lodestone, canonist, and soulless jailer really
then spellskite to troll voltrons and to facetank removal
trail anvil
new (old) fun toy
atomic harness
Got these yesterday
turns out everyone hates tef 
but I'm glad he bounced a threat then ate a kill spell
trail anvil
t3f is a blight upon this game
atomic harness
t3f is a blight upon this game
fire design amirite 
trail anvil
that and dovin's veto have permanently made the game just a little worse by existing 
both in the same set no less
atomic harness
was there a WAR planeswalker that wasnt degenerate
trail anvil
tamiyo was a bad bitch
wanderer also made for a really fun combo with that 6 mana reanimator spell so you could reanimate whatever you wanted to
atomic harness
oh also holy I just remembered another walker from this set
trail anvil
chandra was also a decent card in that standard for monored but not overbearing
atomic harness
ashiok dream render
trail anvil
ashiok was kind of annoying as grave hate but their 5 mana walker was peak design
rigid scarab
Is not going to be enjoyed
atomic harness
what do you think of alchemy T3f komi
trail anvil
alchemy t3f was what he should've been all along
he's still a bit annoying but if he was released like that they wouldn't have had to ban him
trail anvil
Is not going to be enjoyed
also tamiyo static is fucking hilarious idk, watching people playing thought erasure into that 
atomic harness
Yeah the pod I was in immediately tried everything in their power to get rid of teferi asap the moment I dropped him, he lived one turn 
I felt bad for the baral guy his deck didnt work anymore 
trail anvil
lul
twilit canyon
t3f is gross yes but dovins veto permanently ruined control mirrors
subtle sierra
holy fuck phyrexian obliterator is such a stupid card
i want it to die
"oh sorry, i had 2 bushwack's, you now must sack 8 permaments"
twilit canyon
holy fuck phyrexian obliterator is such a stupid card
its stupid but obliterator is 1 of the worst cards
its literally unplayable
golden plover
Obliterator just has a lot of text to say "can't be blocked"
twilit canyon
or: sack 5 irrelevant permanents
golden plover
True. Sometimes it even helps you
But yeah, for the most part, you just let obliterator through
twilit canyon
play obliterator while u control korvold
golden plover
If you're gonna die to obliterator you were gonna lose anyways
twilit canyon
or mayhem devil
golden plover
Rakdos Sac in pioneer loves seeing obliterator across the table
twilit canyon
obliterator is also super ass when playing into fable of the mirror breaker and wedding announcement
and restoration of eiganjo
golden plover
"Sure I'll sac my cat, 2 treasures, a food, and a worthless token. You take 20"
subtle sierra
or: sack 5 irrelevant permanents
i only had 5 lands, blood and trespasser with sheoldred
the two bushwack just killed me
golden plover
Yeah you just let it through there
twilit canyon
eat the bushwhackers
golden plover
That's a "can't be blocked" moment
golden plover
Wait how did it survive both bushwacks
subtle sierra
two turns
twilit canyon
ah fight bloodtithe
golden plover
This seems like a weird meme deck
twilit canyon
fight shelly
subtle sierra
in two turns they killed both my board and my lands
golden plover
Yeah I see it now
twilit canyon
annoying but the deck is really bad
golden plover
Just consider that the mana base needed for that means for every time that combo works, there's about 10 games it doesnt
They need BBBBGG
golden plover
Yeah that too
golden plover
Any removal or interaction and this doesn't work
twilit canyon
and then shelly pings them 2 damage
golden plover
Obliterator works in low interaction formats
twilit canyon
even then
golden plover
But the more answers, the worse he is
subtle sierra
i had a way to remove it next turn, but i had unfortunate draws and they killed my lands
didn't draw throat
drew 3 invoke despair instead
twilit canyon
i had a rant about obliterator a few weeks ago in voice w my sister about how dogshit a card it is
golden plover
Is Vindicator that much better? He also seems pretty bad ngl
Actually, Vindicator seems worse?
twilit canyon
and if it was designed today, itd be able to let u target what is sacked
vindicator is better
flying
golden plover
He's able to at least redirect damage to face and can't be pinged to death
twilit canyon
needs hard removal
golden plover
Obliterator did see a bit of play in his original standard iirc, but then cawblade happened and there was no reason to play anything like that
golden plover
Must suck to have been in standard right before cawblade
You didn't stand a chance of keeping up
twilit canyon
yup
obliterator barely got any time to shine and then was deleted by the meta
and then just never caught on
golden plover
Literally came out a set before cawblade lmao
twilit canyon
also we are now just missing the green one right
golden plover
And blue
twilit canyon
the 2 mana rona flips into a blue obliterator
twilit canyon
yea ig but given we probs wont ever get a chance to complete the cycle
golden plover
Like how Heliod is Consecrated Sphinx, Etali is Blightsteel, and Purpokranos is Wurmcoil
subtle sierra
recently came back
golden plover
Wait what's Ayara supposed to be in that cycle then?
twilit canyon
Wait what's Ayara supposed to be in that cycle then?
oh shes uhhh
theres a card
but idr the name
subtle sierra
i just kinda read her and she sounded like my kind of card
golden plover
Wiki says she's [[Geth, Lord of the Vault]]?
twilit canyon
yes thats it
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Phyrexian Zombie
Intimidate (This creature can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or creatures that share a color with it.)
: Put target artifact or creature card with mana value X from an opponent's graveyard onto the battlefield under your control tapped. Then that player mills X cards.
5/5
golden plover
Weird, they do opposite things
twilit canyon
they reanimate
golden plover
Yeah but they do it entirely differently
twilit canyon
i just kinda read her and she sounded like my kind of card
chandra is fine yea
i just am not a huge fan
golden plover
She gives it haste and it goes away. He doesn't. And hers is your grave and his is theirs
twilit canyon
yea its not 1 for 1 but it makes sense
golden plover
I can see it, but she should have at least used their graveyard ig
twilit canyon
Oh misty since you're here
in any case, 3 invokes, 3 bankbusters and 2 gix command or cruelty of gix are options
i like cruelty a lot rn
golden plover
Although I guess this is better since Geth has historically been an awful card
twilit canyon
yea true that is also for consideration
subtle sierra
yeah black has a lot of options, and i kinda like all of them
subtle sierra
i think i wanna finish up my lands so that i'm not a turn behind every time
subtle sierra
i managed to get 2 springs and it's blessed
twilit canyon
that actually gives u a rakdos mana in all arena formats
historic and explorer have blood crypt and the pathway but thats it
crazy how u can play rb midrange in all arena formats rn
and its top tier
subtle sierra
i like dimir more, but rakdos works fine for me too
trail anvil
what about brawl 😎
fallow citrus
is historic hammer still a thing or does rb just hose it
twilit canyon
its a thing
historic rakdos/x is top tier but it can only be built to beat on aggro or control
not both
if its tailored vs aggro then yea hammer is gone
vs control tho? wizards and hammer will eat it alive
subtle sierra
sigh opponent's etali just hit their atraxa and my sheoldred
golden plover
It's crazy how good rakdos got these past years
Top tier deck in standard, pioneer, and it's playable in modern, yeah?
copper pecan
can we please just have a crumb of good green cards
copper pecan
maybe green will be good in alchemy once lord of the rings comes out and they get the new mana dork
golden plover
It's funny, I remember grabbing a copy of Fable for Ghen before I was proxying shit for the deck and it was like $3 for the alt art
Now that card is $30
Should've grabbed way more fables during those 2 weeks the card was cheap
golden plover
Yeah that was my read too
It'd be good in specific decks but very good in them
Then it just immediately warped the format(s) a week later
Reddit and Twitter both thought it'd be too niche
copper pecan
i thought it would be pretty good but not as good as it is
ban and/or nerf probably incoming
how do y'all think they'll nerf it and sheoldred for alchemy
i'm thinking they'll make sheoldred a 4/4 instead of a 4/5
golden plover
She honestly needed to be 5 mana
4/5 for 4 with death touch is already sorta silly
And then her ability is insane
Maybe even 6 mana, or 2BBB
twilit canyon
shelly can be a 3/3
fable...
triple red
oh wait
they dont need a nerf
they will rotate for alchemy
copper pecan
fable will but sheoldred won't
sleek ferry
which sheoldred 4cmc?
I actually got gamed by a spell slinger urabrask deck from 16 life today
it was kinda cool
copper pecan
4cmc sheoldred is so busted
sleek ferry
I feel like she’s fine right now, pre mom she felt infinitely more annoying
dense berry
sheoldred is pretty good i dont personally get the "broken" aspect of the card its overstatted but the effect doesnt generate advantage or anything
golden plover
Sheoldred actively punishes you for playing the game and not having the ability to remove her
You take 2 every turn you draw into a chance at killing her
subtle sierra
it's also a black card that heals
can be very relevant when playing control into aggro
since she's also a big body
dense berry
my limited experience of standard is playing on my friends account with orzhov control (no sheo) and i only lose to red decks
red seems pushed to the moon
i think the only time sheoldred killed me was as a curve topper to a rakdos aggro deck
twilit canyon
red is unplayable into shelly
u can punish a badly timed shelly
but she can also solo mono red
golden plover
Yeah her healing you just for existing on top of being hard to out and punishing is a lot
dense berry
i suppose shes particularly bad into the strategy i was playing
sleek ferry
red is unplayable into shelly
Doesn’t nahiri’s warfaring give red at least an out to Shelly?
In standard ofc
twilit canyon
3 mana and she might have already gained them enough life to run away with the game for that
sleek ferry
The card seemed always designed to be used for Shelly
That’s why I ask
The + of excavating vs other threats is nice also
twilit canyon
its not
its not designed for shelly
its really bad into her
ex:
red gameplan
t1 1 drop
t2 2 drop
t3 3 drop
t4 raiju swing game
heres how its matched often by rakdos:
t1 cut down
t2 go for or harvester
t3 trespasser +1 life or corpse appraiser +1 card
t4 shelly
following your curve, do you win?
no
they made 3 blockers and killed 1 creature best case and are threatening to gain 4 life
if your t5 is a 3 mana kill spell on shelly, you are still facing 2 creatures
you didnt get enough damage to win and the next shelly will bury you
sleek ferry
So they have to have 4 out of 7 cards plus hit their land drops for this fairy tale scenario to happen, but I mean if they have it, they have it
twilit canyon
what fairy tale scenario
rakdos is built to hit their land drops
thats why u play midrange
to hit ur land drops
cut down, go for the throat, abrade all work as removal for most of rdw
corpse appraiser, trespasser, fleshgorger and fable are all stablizing 3 drops
and shelly
its not uncommon to run 3 copies
sleek ferry
The fairy tale scenario is hitting those 3 creatures on curve, not the land drops
twilit canyon
u are going to see her
except its not
its the intended way to build and play rakdos/grixis in standard
even if it isnt. whats the alternative? "they drew 2-3 removal spells before dropping shelly"
wonderful!
"they keep drawing 3/3s that cantrip or gain life"
ez win
sleek ferry
Sure, and if you’re not seeing your 3 drop on curve, it’s still a loss of tempo. Shelly can stabilize you if they don’t have removal for it, but if they do, then you’re playing a top deck/control game until you draw something they can’t out
twilit canyon
if ur not seeing ur 3 drops on 3 unlucky
u just drew removal most likely
woe
removal
vs a creature deck
trail anvil
they have a shit ton of removal ye
trail anvil
their worst case scenario is honestly drawing bankbuster lol
twilit canyon
their worst case scenario is honestly drawing bankbuster lol
a card that becomes a 4/4 when your creatures get destroyed before being able to block
trail anvil
ye it's still super annoying to deal with, but you do still skip a turn on 2
subtle sierra
God chandra copying despair is a bit lol
copper pecan
why is it that bad custom magic designers gravitate towards phyrexian mana so often
why is it never twobrid mana
twobrid mana at least has actual design space
hidden ermine
Phyrexian mana looks cooler
trail anvil
God chandra copying despair is a bit lol
we need reliquary tower in standard again
sudden lava
a good thing about not knowing all the cards in this game (I have more knowledge about yugioh cards that exist then MTG), even super old cards feel super new to me
trail anvil
fml I kinda hate that emergent ultimatum really is just an actually autowin button
atomic harness
Phyrexian mana looks cooler
atomic harness
why is it that bad custom magic designers gravitate towards phyrexian mana so of...
but it's my favorite mechanic 
lusty trench
Bruh this card is ugly af
rigid scarab
RAY OF GAY
sleek ferry
I kinda like it
golden plover
Wow that's not great
Also stop doing text less promos for cards that have a million lines of text
sleek ferry
i mean, it's a promo
the card is literal cents
I'm fine with promos looking like this
golden plover
It's like $5, but I don't have an issue with it because of price
I have an issue with it because Thalia and the Gitrog has like 4 unrelated effects
She's got a keyword soup ability, a land thing, and a stax one?
twilit canyon
shes easy to remember at least
golden plover
It'd be annoying to play against this if you don't know what the card does
fallow citrus
good thing google exists
idt remembering card text is as big of a deal anymore and if someone brings those I'm sure they also need to bring reminder text like in ygo
twilit canyon
sure but u the player are requiered to bring evidence of its oracle text
fallow citrus
it's only as annoying as like playing against a different language card imo
lusty trench
Addition land, 3 mana Thalia, and then attack sac creature or land draw one mandatory right?
Only thing I get confused on is her keywords
It's first strike death touch right?
fallow citrus
[[thalia and the gitrog monster]]
lost widgetBOT
lusty trench
Ay I got it right
dense berry
5.5 effects
thats a worse textless than cryptic command
I guess its realistically just 5 but still more than cryptic's 4
also yeah the artwork is not great
i presume the rainbow isnt just the foil pattern being simulated
i love rainbows as much as the next guy but it undermines any sense of the color scheme
fallow citrus
I think it's like
kind of doing what the MID stuff did where most of it is grayscale and then there are coloured bits on it
lusty trench
Looks like new nissa is out of stock everywhere where I am
Just got a Japanese scapeshift for £8
lusty trench
just asking, but ancient greenwarden in a landfall focused deck is cope right? it feels really win more
fallow citrus
[[ancient greenwarden]]
lost widgetBOT
lusty trench
New Nissa
fallow citrus
oh she's just elf omnath
kind of cool she turns a fetch into a mana dork
or can grab an endurance
foundation breaker etc
dense berry
bought a foil rite of flame on tcgplayer and they sent me a foil mutagenic growth instead
i want my foil rite of flame but like this muta is twice as expensive
twilit canyon
hm
copper pecan
changes to how standard bans work
one major banlist change per year
smaller changes once per set around a month after the sets come out
new standard banlist later this month
twilit canyon
this def helps a lot of my concerns
trail anvil
hopefully they don't force the change in the rare event standard actually hits a really nice spot
but yeah it's good to have a huge banlist for that
sleek ferry
That’s pretty good
glad peak
Decent change but what do we do if standard is good 
sleek ferry
Play standard
twilit canyon
play it... on arena
sleek ferry
standard has arguably been good since kaldheim
glad peak
No I mean for the yearly ban thing
sleek ferry
midnight hunt is the only iffy one
twilit canyon
if standard is good, then they should just not ban anything?
the banlist doesnt has to have a ban
sleek ferry
Oh he meant good as in balanced
glad peak
Sure but the way they say it sounds like they’re going to make sweeping changes regardless
sleek ferry
thought he meant good as in fun to play
it sounds to me like 1 kill list every year
and maybe 1 hit every set if it calls for it
but they could choose not to hit anything
hidden ermine
They should just make paper alchemy cards and let us play historic in paper smh
twilit canyon
the whole point of alchemy cards is to do things that are inconvenient or hard to do in paper
hidden ermine
That sounds like a problem for Wizards
lusty trench
Smh where's monarch? Where's the old werewolves? Where's space beleren? Where's the city's blessing?
clever sun
https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/1658502584116625410?t=RxW836GY06AUFGKHl...
Pretty cool updates
Hopefully Standard is improved
dapper jacinth
Smh where's monarch? Where's the old werewolves? Where's space beleren? Where's ...
City's blessing will probably return in some form for lost caverns of ixalan, although probably only on a couple of cards, as the cities are not the main focus of the set
fallow citrus
underground city moment
sudden lava
Smh where's monarch? Where's the old werewolves? Where's space beleren? Where's ...
space beleren isnt simic
lusty trench
Sad 😦
sudden lava
But I agree on oldwolves, monarch, and city's blessing being added
also add some infect and poisonous there as well
lusty trench
Emblem planes walkers that instantly ult too
sudden lava
oh yeah we getting Eldraine set
golden plover
Man I sure do love my +1/+1 counters themes in WG
I'd love to see them use something other than that or tokens again for WG
glad peak
But but mah limited set shoe ins
Also something something mid level cubes
Speaking of which primordial is a weird format
sudden lava
I'd love to see them use something other than that or tokens again for WG
also doesnt this imply Frodo has to fight any time there is a squirrel on the opponents board
dapper jacinth
W/G deserves more than+1/+1 and tokens
Give us like a lifegain or a tribal or something
lusty trench
Issue is white green shares shockingly little with each other that hasn't been explored
golden plover
But the fucking precon was +1/+1 counters
lusty trench
Like how do you show the want for prosperity outside of making things grow bigger and making more of them?
fallow citrus
treasure tokens :)
lusty trench
Giving white mana advantage cards? Are you crazy? We can't do that, we only just let them generate card advantage that isn't tribal!
golden plover
Could be cards that get better if you meet a criteria, like Coven
sudden lava
That's bant
copper pecan
print mana tithe into standard you cowards
glad peak
No, I mean +1/+1 counters, that was supposed to be the pun
lusty trench
Maybe thriving as a mechanic? Each creature has a different condition to meet to become thriving and when they do you get a permanent bonus? So like as an example you have a green white 1/1 called caretaker or whatever, and when you control 3 non token creatures it thrives into a 4/4?
golden plover
Honestly white needs to get taxing counters again
They're supposed to be secondary in counters
sudden lava
No, I mean +1/+1 counters, that was supposed to be the pun
yes, the joke was that bant has counterspells
because its green white blue
glad peak
Nah, gw alone has counter spells
sudden lava
you ready for the doctor who commanders?
lusty trench
White for as much as it's meant to symbolise authority... Really doesn't like printing taxing effects
Last one I remember is the Thalia reprint, I could just be dumb tho
sudden lava
glad peak
Oh hey counterspell tribal
sudden lava
with partner but not actually partner
lusty trench
If this is putting suspend counters on your stuff for bonuses later i swear
sudden lava
we have the face commanders colors already
The 4th Doctor is Blue/green and Sara Jane is white
10th is blue/red and Rose Tyler white
13th doctor is blue/green and Yasmin Khan being red
sudden lava
probably a sorcery ^
copper pecan
also there's something indescribable about seeing david tenant on a magic card
sudden lava
but not sure
we just know she's one of the commanders
So for combinations we have 13+Sara, 13+ Rose, 13+Yasmin, 4+Sara, 4+Rose, 4+Yasmin, 10+Sara, 10+Rose, and 10+Yasmin
so 9 total potential (No we arent counting them by themselves ) commanders options
with only 1 being 2 colors
golden plover
White for as much as it's meant to symbolise authority... Really doesn't like pr...
Because taxes "make players sad"
hidden ermine
So for combinations we have 13+Sara, 13+ Rose, 13+Yasmin, 4+Sara, 4+Rose, 4+Yasm...
Im almost certain there will be more
sudden lava
^ Not counting the 99, forgot to mention that
so yeah this is gonna be fun to experiment with
The Sagas are gonna be cool
copper pecan
Because taxes "make players sad"
i mean, something not being fun is a pretty good reason to not do it
and i'm saying this as someone who wants white to get more taxing
if the majority of the players think it isn't fun they probably shouldn't do it
golden plover
See but the majority of players find everything that isn't winning and value unfun
Counter spells are one of the most hated mechanics, but we still get them every set
People find removal unfun. Discard unfun. Etc
I'm sure there's someone out there who finds 6/6 bodies unfun
glad peak
Big uninteractable creatures are unfun
Big creatures that cost a lot are a snooze fest
golden plover
Exactly
Their argument for UB was "Don't be rude about stuff you personally dislike"
Well I like stax and apparently it's not the same for that one
copper pecan
flavor you don't like is a lot easier to ignore that mechanics you don't like
dapper jacinth
Also 10 if we count the enemy commander deck
I am genuinely intrigued as to who the secondary commander of this is
sudden lava
I am genuinely intrigued as to who the secondary commander of this is
there isnt one
sudden lava
golden plover
flavor you don't like is a lot easier to ignore that mechanics you don't like
I mean, it's the same thing imo
sudden lava
timestamped to the info on villian
golden plover
If I don't wanna see the doctor or a cw character or Chris Pine across the board, I'll be annoyed when they're played
If my opponent doesn't want to get countered, they'd be annoyed when I fow them
golden plover
If the official rule is gonna be "suck it up" that should apply to new counters, stax cards, etc too
sudden lava
those we'll probably get optional grixis commanders in the 99
Just no 2 card commander @dapper jacinth
hidden ermine
I mean, it's the same thing imo
Its really not
One thing directly affects gameplay
The other odes not
sudden lava
this alt art for the 13th doctor is cool
golden plover
One thing directly affects gameplay
I dunno. Both affect game enjoyment. It's a little different, but I think they should lean more into "some of these effects aren't fun, but it's fun what you can do with them"
Instead of stopping printing entire mechanics because unfun
copper pecan
you can completely ignore flavor, but you can't ignore mechanics while still playing the game
sudden lava
Im looking at planechase cards, found a few I like 
Like Norn's seedcore, and Strixhaven
twilit canyon
flavor is entirely optional in magic cards
mechanics arent
unless they just dont print more cards in some mechanics
trail anvil
I feel kinda bad beating on people playing draft chaff in the midweek magic
but at the same time I just wanna play a new format lol
sleek ferry
Don’t you have standard + another format decks besides hbrawl?
trail anvil
I have standard and hbrawl decks built rn
I just wanted to try a "new" standard since they aren't rotating it yet really
atomic harness
mail day
twilit canyon
trail anvil
pog
atomic harness
which counters should I sub out for those 4 misty?
I'm on negate, rebuke, dispel (bad art, so gonna change it for that jace one), stoic rebuttal, delay (the goat), dovin's veto, miscast (also the goat)
I think I can also add at least 2 additional ones and replace some of the less good cards here
stubborn and offer are definitely going in
twilit canyon
an offer is only gonna be great for u when u actually have it as a cedh deck
atomic harness
ohh
twilit canyon
otherwise, just find your worst counters/removals/cards
including creatures and sorceries and such
atomic harness
I can also cope with counters over tef pro for now right, dont want to shell out for it yet and most of the time I can stop attempts to kill me or to break my board with counterspells
sleek ferry
An offer you can’t refuse should be good when you play with that cedh pod tbh
Even in your casual pods, don’t people play like big spells like finale and such
Or torment of hellfire
glad peak
Just have offer to protect your play then negate whatever big mana play they have after
atomic harness
I still might play offer for the wipers and other dummy stuff yeah. Swan song at home
the two treasures usually isnt a big deal when multiple menace 11/11 constructs get into the red zone
sudden lava
helped someone pick out a new commander, we went from Ambassador Blorpityblorpboop to asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar
for their new commander deck
lusty trench
Honestly an offer you can refuse is definitely good in casuals, two treasures helps people take the blow rather than potential salt and people don't usually expect 1 mana counters
atomic harness
hidden ermine
Wait Im confused how YGO goes up to 1800
twilit canyon
by the rules given
hidden ermine
Most of the cost in the non-Kash decks are staples every deck uses no
hidden ermine
Or does he just count duplicates several times
twilit canyon
1 variation of each deck
cut dupes that go over playsets
so no it isnt counting dupes several times
twilit canyon
probably 3 total accesscodes
thats it for yugioh cus thatd be a playset in total
but
i would assume it wouldnt add too much
since the guy even mentioned how hes not even counting variants of the same deck
ah yeah okay so
not even counting extras
unless a deck runs 2 accesscodes
he mentions baronne
since its counting the 1st 3
twilit canyon
yea but the same treatment is being done to all other games
so it inflates for every game
hidden ermine
How many other games have staples you dont play in a playset?
twilit canyon
magic i know for sure
u dont always run 4 of
example: sheoldred in standard
shes not a 4 of
but she is a staple
wandering emperor is another card
u dont run max copies
oh watching the yugioh section
hidden ermine
Lemme watch the video to get a better idea
twilit canyon
he does shave off multiple copies of the ed stuff from what i can tell
hidden ermine
Oh also, Plat 1, I might even get Diamond this season lmao
Unless he shaves off more later
I only see Zeus getting shaved in the ED
twilit canyon
oh ok he does admit
hidden ermine
The original price for YGO and Magic is close, Magic just gets a lot more cut from duplicates
Which makes sense
twilit canyon
he only shaved zeus cus zeus goes over even the 3 of limit
hidden ermine
How many of the top 5 are running Sheoldred, Atraxa, Fable and ...
Uhh
I forgot what the fourth card thats pricy and in every deck is
twilit canyon
3/5
really it is just shelly and fable
atraxa isnt a 4 of in those decks or ran in all of them
and similarly 3/5 run shelly and fable
but only fable is universal in the red decks
but not in red aggro
hidden ermine
Yeah he even says himself that in YGO it just suffers from the ruleset
Which makes sense
Since otherwise there would be a lot more cut with how much is shared between decks
twilit canyon
i think on average that would bring it down a bit lower but not by a ton
keep in mind this really only affects the extra deck
hidden ermine
Which is usually where a lot of the cost is
twilit canyon
idk if thats true entirely
from when i started
every ygo base price has consistently been on the staples and archetype staples
still
fab is a super offensive price
hidden ermine
I mean, thats the game treated as an investment by the devs isnt it?
twilit canyon
it gapped magic by almost double
for what is largely considered the most expensive card game
that to me
is offensive
hidden ermine
Oh no I agree
Thats why I never bothered getting into it
Just that I tend to seperate cost from the games value as a ... well game
twilit canyon
right right but
hidden ermine
YGO is also a game I rarely got the top deck because I dont wanna spend 300€ on cardboard
twilit canyon
with no online game client
hidden ermine
Oh it still doesnt have one?
twilit canyon
and a dev team that is intent on following the reserve list philosophy of magic
no they said they would never do an online client
hidden ermine
Oh officially but like
I meant unofficially
YGOPro carried YGO for many years after all
twilit canyon
didnt duelingbook exist forever too
also master duel was never intended to be a full on mirror to the tcg side
same ruleset and cardpool
hidden ermine
There was something else before Duelingbook
twilit canyon
but md feels like a live-service version of the ygo games that used to come out yearly
hidden ermine
Im surprised Weiss Schwarz is that cheap
twilit canyon
@clever sun this should interest u
hidden ermine
Like thats the waifu game
twilit canyon
clever sun
I haven't watched yet
But I will if even you recommend
That chart and ruleset though 👀
hidden ermine
So youd think there would be huge markup
twilit canyon
hm
hidden ermine
Apparently not though
twilit canyon
waifus only markup so much
especially for a competitive deck
u know what i mean?
like
the players who play optimally
vs the players who play for waifus
often dont overlap
so there is probs some insanely priced bad waifu cards in weiss
but they just suck and arent competitive
clever sun
Wow this is pretty interesting how Magic kind of takes a nose dive in price after cutting dupes
You don't even need max copies of all these cards often
This price might be reduced even further if we cut to optimal lists and only price in like
hidden ermine
so there is probs some insanely priced bad waifu cards in weiss
I mean I could believe that normally
clever sun
Three Shelly
twilit canyon
right
twilit canyon
man its weird that i know like 3 vtubers irl but i still dont know anything about vtubing really lol
its such a distant media type to me
hidden ermine
~~If only I had easily accessible locals for it nearby ~~
I mean I dont get V-Tubers
Im just aware of them
twilit canyon
yea thats what i mean
hidden ermine
For me the models are still hella uncanny
clever sun
Pokemon is eternally cheap
I wonder what their sales look like and if it offsets them having no real secondary market
That said, I still don't really know anyone who plays Pokemon tcg
hidden ermine
Depends on where, but I do know data from japan somewhat well
In Japan its YGO or Pokemon at the top
Which one exactly varies, but its always those 2
So it makes mad cash
Pokemon is a game people collect more than they play
clever sun
Yeah that's more of what I mean
How much money do they rake from collectors versus from people competing
golden plover
Way more from collectors
hidden ermine
Yeah easily
twilit canyon
the game v much doesnt has a secondary market
golden plover
They've got treatments that are like 1 a case
Those end up being like $300+ every set
clever sun
Oh I'm sure you can pimp out your Pokemon deck if you try
golden plover
You absolutely can
clever sun
Jesus FUCK FAB
golden plover
I think mew was meta when the card was like $600?
clever sun
Over $3k with dupes
lusty trench
Those end up being like $300+ every set
They don't do this anymore iirc
clever sun
That is unreal
golden plover
No more one a case cards?
clever sun
I don't think Modern breaks $3k?
hidden ermine
Oh, pact of negation is in the game
twilit canyon
modern breaks 3k with dupes
hidden ermine
Well fuck me
golden plover
Doesn't stuff like creativity break $3k?
hidden ermine
This is why you should look up stuff before playing Historic ranked lmao
twilit canyon
they are all min 800
hidden ermine
Worst part is I could've played around it
clever sun
Oh I thought Burn and Mill hovered around the top five right now lol
I'm slightly out of the Modern loop
lusty trench
Flesh in blood however
hidden ermine
Any other free counters in historic?
twilit canyon
no just pact
lusty trench
Has cards that are one ofs in multiple cases
hidden ermine
I got belched
lusty trench
And they're functionally unique
twilit canyon
playing around pact is simple in historic
tho
cus
playing a spell vs a tapped out opponent
tells u if they have it or not
so saving make disappear for it in ninjas at least is big
not for pact
hidden ermine
Oh yeah
twilit canyon
but to counter the belcher or the creativity to cheat the belcher
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hidden ermine
[[Goblin Charbelcher]]
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Artifact
, : Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card. Goblin Charbelcher deals damage equal to the number of nonland cards revealed this way to any target. If the revealed land card was a Mountain, Goblin Charbelcher deals double that damage instead. Put the revealed cards on the bottom of your library in any order.
twilit canyon
[[goblin charbelcher]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact
, : Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card. Goblin Charbelcher deals damage equal to the number of nonland cards revealed this way to any target. If the revealed land card was a Mountain, Goblin Charbelcher deals double that damage instead. Put the revealed cards on the bottom of your library in any order.
clever sun
Optimal way to play Belcher in Historic is to hold a stop for every turn
hidden ermine
I did have Make Disappear
clever sun
this psyches people out to Pact of Negation
hidden ermine
I could've casualtied it
twilit canyon
ur evil
clever sun
lmao
twilit canyon
ya it happens
hidden ermine
Just wild to learn what is in this format sometimes
twilit canyon
funnily enough, outside of that, pact is super irrelevant
hidden ermine
Doesnt shock me
twilit canyon
the other combo decks dont run it either
polar lake
i hate historic due to the alchemy cards
twilit canyon
ok
hidden ermine
Idk I like the alchemy cards so far
clever sun
Wow Magic going from 4th to 5th definitely surprised me
hidden ermine
The ones for Ninjas helped
clever sun
I was so sure it would still be over Yugioh
polar lake
but like some of the alchemy cards appeal to me tho
hidden ermine
... is Ballista in the game
twilit canyon
alchemy prints some insanely cool and good cards
hidden ermine
Err in the format
twilit canyon
no ballista is banned
twilit canyon
hangerback walker is legal tho
hidden ermine
Whats the heliod combopiece then?
polar lake
its due to the heliod combo iirc
hidden ermine
Or is there just not one
twilit canyon
[[scurry oak]]
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twilit canyon
yup
polar lake
what about [[ivy league denizen]]
twilit canyon
was added in jumpstart
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polar lake
[[ivy lane deniz]]
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twilit canyon
no not yet
polar lake
fuck
hidden ermine
Gonna play around it just in case
twilit canyon
scurry oak and heliod are the combo cards for that deck
and they do have 8 soul sisters
polar lake
👀
hidden ermine
Oh wow
twilit canyon
the deck is "okay"
polar lake
ok bet im hopping on arena rn
hidden ermine
Playing around it was 100% correct
twilit canyon
they get to play collected company
twilit canyon
yea dont get caught by a meme
the deck is unfort not good enough cus of efficiency of other combo decks
coco in general is kinda mid
rn
lot of sb hate for it
from grafdiggers cage
[[weathered runestone]]
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twilit canyon
[[the stone brain]] is super popular
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Legendary Artifact
, , Exile The Stone Brain: Choose a card name. Search target opponent's graveyard, hand, and library for up to four cards with that name and exile them. That player shuffles, then draws a card for each card exiled from their hand this way. Activate only as a sorcery.
twilit canyon
rb midrange runs [[slaughter games]]
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