#Magic the Gathering
golden plover
twilit canyon
yes its what makes me think they are avoiding real spoilers of cards and events
hidden ermine
Even the MCU has done it sooo
rigid scarab
I'm sure Teferi did a cool action pose at one point in the story
twilit canyon
karn lost venser's spark
trail anvil
oh karn, I misunderstood earlier 
golden plover
Teferi lost it for a long time, just not recently
twilit canyon
teferi was exhausted yes
golden plover
He didn't have it from Time Spiral to Dominara
trail anvil
so we're probably going back to the original crew after this?
trail anvil
or ig not original
twilit canyon
it would be
trail anvil
lorwyn 5 + teferi
trail anvil
and maybe nissa yeah
lusty trench
I would honestly not be surprised if Jace and vraska settle down
trail anvil
yeah same
hidden ermine
Yeah they retconned Teferis spark with Dominaria
twilit canyon
well we dont know if jace makes it
hidden ermine
We dont know where the fuck Jace is in general
Dude being compleated was the climax of ONE
Then in MoM he just fucks off before the battle even starts
golden plover
Sidenote, I still can't get over the ajani art from the stories being on NEGATE of all things
It's the least fitting thing they could have used that art for
trail anvil
they're negating his phyrexianization
twilit canyon
golden plover
But it's been on the field for 3 sets
twilit canyon
lol
trail anvil
btw I'm eyeing this card pretty hard with all the artifact/enchantment removal in standard
twilit canyon
Then in MoM he just fucks off before the battle even starts
climax of one was def not jace compleation
it was the fight with him after
trail anvil
I don't imagine it'll change too hard after this set, if it doesn't then the ward puts in overtime
hidden ermine
Id consider that the same storybeat
hidden ermine
Yeah but the reveal to the characters happens then
twilit canyon
no?
they knew when vraska got ahold of him
he told them too
but he was gonna "get it over with" or whatnot
story climax happens as elspeth and tyvar beat back ajani and tibalt
kaya and kaito fight jace cus they realize its probably too dangerous to fire off the sylex let alone let jace do it
twilit canyon
oh god someone mentioned that with sarkhan in the pic its possible that they did time shenanigans to fix them
id actually be upset if that was the case
zinc shard
I quit
sudden lava
broken fjord
Imagine getting a flicker effect off of the new Etali. So much value. Gruul is also great for mana acceleration to turbo it out.
twilit canyon
mono red has better ramp than gruul u dont need green accelerants besides esg to get this down faster
but conveniently, its mono-red to cast
and colorless to flip
granted with all that mana might as well find ways to flicker it
broken fjord
By definition gruul is better. Since you have access to both red and green.
It's great that etali is mono to cast though
broken fjord
Well yeah, then you could run all the flickers
twilit canyon
not all but just the best ones for etali
black would have been nuts
that way u can wgd etali
broken fjord
Think food chain is a decent way to go for etali for sure
Very good chance of getting a chain going
twilit canyon
food chain in gruul is tough
glad peak
Stax is the only way to go
twilit canyon
no black means no consistent tutors and no consultation
broken fjord
Yeah not searchable
twilit canyon
the biggest loss is [[tainted pact]] and pid
lost widgetBOT
broken fjord
Do think Etali will make a fine high powered commander. Just probably not cedh level
twilit canyon
high power? yea seems pretty strong
twilit canyon
for krrik u can easily free cast this
broken fjord
That's the minimum i mean
twilit canyon
yea true
broken fjord
That you have to pay mana into
twilit canyon
the thing it exiles can also potentially be totally free
hidden ermine
"What remains of the multiverse"
... didnt most places handle the invasion well enough?
lusty trench
Yeah there's some clean up to be done but other than that most places will recover in a decade or so
hidden ermine
Yeah this just seems to imply the invasion was more disastrous than it was presented
fallow citrus
I mean there's still a lot of rebuilding to be done lmao
just because the literal plane is intact doesn't mean everywhere is fine
some planes didn't get turbofucked but like
eldraine is in a pretty rocky place right now
ikoria lost drannith
the whole situation with ravnica
lusty trench
I'm pretty sure a lot of planes have access to Terra forming magic of some kind, it's just gonna take a while... Unless you're innistrad in which case this invasion was like a Tuesday except now you're even more paranoid cause some random evil fucker can kick down the door to your plane
fallow citrus
I mean even if they can terraform that is still rebuilding
sudden lava
alt art of the new Etali
sudden lava
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805846945947320320/1090751121359904818/ot...
Strixhaven
hidden ermine
I mean there's still a lot of rebuilding to be done lmao
Its not the rebuild part that stumped me
Its the "whats left of the multiverse part"
To me that impleis almost everything was destroyed but like
We really didnt see that
languid quest
I'm pretty sure a lot of planes have access to Terra forming magic of some kind,...
it's not paranoia if it's justified
lusty trench
Truuuuue
languid quest
and it's very much justified for people of Innistrad
dense berry
We *really* didnt see that
this is what happens when the suits tell the writing team they can't go as far as they want
cant be destroying too much of the IP
but then they do still want to run the planned post apocalyptic set
twilit canyon
yea to me it reads like they had much bigger plans when designing the outcome
but we either wont see it or cant see it bc corpa says "if u damage the ip's status quo then we will lose (2%) profits"
lusty trench
Tibalt possibly
Nah he's confirmed dead dead by the writers
dense berry
losing tibalt is a great tragedy on par with losing domri rade
hidden ermine
Tbh Tibalt was actually interesting as a character
dense berry
our low exposure semi joke walkers can't be wasted like this
hidden ermine
Im not happy he got off-screened
lusty trench
Wdym you can clearly see him getting shit on by tyvar right here
After this moment tyvar stabs him, breaks his neck and sends him down a big ass drop
Iirc at least
hidden ermine
I meant the compleation in this case
sleek ferry
I still find it hard to believe Tibalt is dead
You’re telling me the ultimate trickster died just like that ?
hidden ermine
Literally MCU Loki
twilit canyon
he got bitten by the oil in kaldheim
dense berry
Wdym you can clearly see him getting shit on by tyvar right here
when this exact same art came out years ago but it was garruk holding liliana, there was a big stink about it
twilit canyon
vorinclex didnt have patience for tibalts trickery
copper pecan
You’re telling me the ultimate trickster died just like that ?
wym oko is fine
copper pecan
fucked up that we never got to see oko interact with tibalt though
twilit canyon
the part that gets me was that tibalt didnt get any card to indicate his new form or status
hidden ermine
Did we even see the oil part?
twilit canyon
yes
in kaldheim
we didnt know it was oil at the time or what exactly it was
but vorinclex put tibalt on a leash cus tibalt felt cocky when dealing with vorinclex
copper pecan
yeah they said that vorinclex did something to him but were really vague about what
lusty trench
but vorinclex put tibalt on a leash cus tibalt felt cocky when dealing with vori...
tibalt felt cocky
Damn that's the entire character right there
twilit canyon
we had assumed compleated walkers back then but dismissed the notion
twilit canyon
they did what tibalt's original card does best
nothing of note
if not actively detrimental
ok tbf
he did almost destroy kaldheim
uhh he got his ass whooped by sorin before
thats notable i guess
lusty trench
Isn't that more on lukka being dumb as shit than tibalt being good? Or am I mixing stories up?
sleek ferry
But died vs fucking Tyvar?
twilit canyon
or kaldheim
lusty trench
Gotcha
twilit canyon
But died vs fucking Tyvar?
point is pretty mute
tyvar got a big upgrade in mirrodin
since he can manipulate hexgold now and use it as armor or weaponry
lusty trench
Tibalt could probably job to a house cat
twilit canyon
and then he soloed phyrexianized koma
dense berry
same art frfr
sleek ferry
Regardless of the upgrade, I would put almost none of the compleated walkers on on sorin’s level
lusty trench
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here loot
dense berry
im surprised they went for it
twilit canyon
Regardless of the upgrade, I would put almost none of the compleated walkers on ...
yea so why is it surprising when tibalt gets clapped by a non-compleated walker
who has been shown to be very strong
sleek ferry
I’m confused now
lusty trench
Tibalt is no where near sorin thugs
twilit canyon
sorin didnt wanna outright kill him
at least idt he did
he was just annoyed at tibalts antics
but if mere annoyance was all it took for sorin to kill someone nissa would be long dead
lusty trench
Sorin doesn't like getting his hands dirty
dense berry
looking at the two artworks side by side tyvars stand almost looks plagiarized
lusty trench
He is more than happy to just chill because innistrad does not chill at all
lusty trench
looking at the two artworks side by side tyvars stand almost looks plagiarized
Eh it's a common pose
dense berry
focus is exactly the same muscular dude on the left chokeholding smaller person on the right, fist raised with hook in the same position with leg stepping forward between the legs of the person on the right, person on the right clearly in a pickle but readying a counterattack
its not just one similarity
everything about it is the same
twilit canyon
the controversy with triumph of ferocity was the subjects in question not the post
[[stranglehold]]
lost widgetBOT
lusty trench
focus is exactly the same muscular dude on the left chokeholding smaller person ...
This is also a common pose
twilit canyon
the reason that was controversial was cus of the image of a huge burly man beating on a small woman didnt sit right with audiences who didnt know context
dense berry
harkening to the controversy is just how i was thinking of the art
lusty trench
I'm pretty sure I can point to a Peter Pan scene that looks like that
dense berry
stranglehold is different enough
literally everything is the same between this and triumph
twilit canyon
tyvar's stand differentiates itself from triumph pretty well at least
the colors on stand contrast the grimness of the situation which gives us a feeling of triumph over a villain. the power dynamic between the 2 is also clear. tibalt wasnt an innocent bystander or at least, he was physically engaging in combat with tyvar too. it gives u a feeling of tyvar overpowering tibalt but in a sense where tibalt was also an active combatant
sleek ferry
I think tibalt is still alive and he’s pulling a Houdini on you guys, setting him up as the next big villain
dense berry
liliana was still in her actually evil arc though
twilit canyon
hes hard to take seriously yeah
copper pecan
tibalt just doesn't really have a ton going for him as a character that oko doesn't also do
twilit canyon
oko is way more of an intriguing figure and potential villain than tibalt yeah
hidden ermine
I dont think Tibalt as a character is hard to take seriously
But his first card was just such a huge misstep
twilit canyon
yeah was just gonna say
its not necessarily the characterization
but the card didnt tonally fit with a villain
he felt too...
whelming
the original praetors are menacing and powerful cards
bolas has had multiple powerful and intimidating cards
and looking at other minor, non-multiversal villains
baral
his card and art feel powerful and imposing
general kudro has a lot of authority in his card and abilities (but also fell a bit flat)
oko
just oko
copper pecan
tibalt doesn't really have a motivation beyond just causing chaos for the sake of causing chaos
hidden ermine
Does Oko actually?
copper pecan
oko does it because he hates authority due to how repressive the culture on his home plane was whereas tibalt just does it for the sake of doing it
lusty trench
Rebuilt my dragons cause funny
Goldspan is the best card they've printed for the deck in recent times jesus it does everything I want it to
twilit canyon
last glen
sudden lava
who know who I hope gets transformed by the phryexian? WItherbloom
Make her dragon butt mechanical!
twilit canyon
sudden lava
ooh
strong quartz
Cards that I wish were instant
Imagine the blowout breaking their board and then flipping a battle
subtle sierra
So how do battles work exactly? Do you put them on your field and just designate an opponent that cannot attack it and can assign blockers for it?
rigid scarab
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805846945947320320/1090834052912787517/6a...
How many times did WOTC pull the writing stunt of "These guys did this. These other guys did the opposite."
copper pecan
So how do battles work exactly? Do you put them on your field and just designate...
yes
trail anvil
So how do battles work exactly? Do you put them on your field and just designate...
for sieges, yes
there's gonna be multiple types apparently, hopefully some that can be removed by means other than damage
zinc shard
twilit canyon
5U
Instant
Convoke
You may cast sorcery spells this turn as though they had flash.
The next time you cast an instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy it twice, you may choose two targets for the copies.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805846945947320320/1090897185329131581/q79of7eb8vqa1.png
fallow citrus
sleek ferry
Got scared for a second there
Thought knight put the revealed cards unto the battlefield
fallow citrus
strong quartz
Battles are really just on-cost normal sorceries
hidden ermine
That phoenix looks pretty strong
dense berry
the almost finale of devastation battle looks very good
golden plover
The Phoenix seems really good
rigid scarab
Wait
Mirrodin Avenged and You are Already Dead
Are literally the same card
????
lusty trench
Happens sometimes, they do functional reprints for the draft environment and since the card isn't good having a different card with the same effect doesn't matter
rigid scarab
But
This is the fucking
DEATH OF ELESH NORN
And it's on a common
And not only a common
A functional reprint
copper pecan
bruh they need to stop doing these
at the very least they shouldn't be doing it on cards with this much text
rigid scarab
I say they're promos
They can do what they want with them
There's a negligible amount of people who genuinely get confused and wouldn't otherwise know the card
glad peak
The Phoenix is pretty decent
Doesn’t really fit into any modern deck and gets eaten by shredders but it’s decent
copper pecan
There's a negligible amount of people who genuinely get confused and wouldn't ot...
in a game where minor differences in wording matters a lot, even people who do know what the card does can end up making misplays because of this
rigid scarab
in a game where minor differences in wording matters a lot, even people who do k...
Is that any different from foreign language cards
copper pecan
foreign language cards are at least written in a language
rigid scarab
What's good of a language if a player can't read it
I don't feel like this is something worth complaining about
Like if every region restricts cards to only be in their respective native language for events I may be on board
But I don't think that's happening anytime soon
golden plover
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/654616698703314944/1091022210166181948/...
This one is literally too new also. No one knows what it does yet
It's also got two unrelated effects
copper pecan
foreign language cards have a reason to exist whereas these have absolutely no justification
golden plover
rigid scarab
I personally have no problem with fullarts
Because their main purpose is to just look cool
What I don't like are cards that attempt to be legible and just
Aren't
copper pecan
textless cryptic command has caused problems in tournaments before so i would not at all be surprised if textless thalia and gitrog causes similar problems
waxen timber
4 mana to have "This cannot be countered. Destroy an artifact or enchantment, draw a card." Is pretty good
Probably not playable cause of boseiju but, still pretty solid
copper pecan
idk why they didn't give it cycling now that cycling is deciduous
rigid scarab
It's shit like this I have a problem with
It's one thing to not attempt to be legible, yeah, I get it. When you try to be legible and fail spectacularly, then I have issues.
copper pecan
okay yeah that's worse
golden plover
That's not even the worst one
Y'all see the Minneapolis exclusive lair
This is awful
Sucks because the art itself is cool
fallow citrus
front side was good enough that back side is pretty nice too
lusty trench
Jesus they worked super hard to make invasion of arcavios unplayable
5 mana tutor with 7 defence
golden plover
I assume it ended up being too good in testing then
lusty trench
Shame too because both halves are neat
Just not at that cost and defence
Ehhh maybe an edh deck that reanimates atraxa can fit it in or something
that's pretty good
trail anvil
This
this one looks like it's really damn good
especially if you can insta flip some battles with it
clever sun
especially if you can insta flip some battles with it
It's a very situational card
Especially at that mana value
Should be okay in limited
especially with all the incubation cards that are 0/0s baseline
glad peak
Baral and Kari Zev is interesting
clever sun
Yeah
I like the card
It's pretty strong with first strike and menace with that toughness
Means that it can work well with combat tricks, removal, and is a good blocker
hidden ermine
... wait does it let you give creatures pseudoflash if you cast a tribal card?
No wait
Card type
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
Can easily allow for them to create nasty card advantage in combat and with spell efficiency
trail anvil
It's a very situational card
I feel like it depends how many sagas, battles you run and how many pw you face
resetting fable doesn't sound horrible
clever sun
I'd agree if it was less than three mana
hidden ermine
I wonder, is there any way to give a spell on the stack an extra card type?
trail anvil
I'm sure you have the text to put it together, kinda surprised that there's not
hidden ermine
But mycosinth just makes em colourless
clever sun
I'm sure you have the text to put it together, kinda surprised that there's not
There is but there isn't
Every time they could have, they instead choose to give it Flash
But it makes sense, it can create some very stupid ruling issues
glad peak
Errant and Giada had so much potential, they definitely nerfed them in the playtest portion
trail anvil
like you think they let you play lands or generically cast spells before?
clever sun
May have been
glad peak
No, I think they wouldve let you play instants and cards with flash
clever sun
That is also likely
fallow citrus
trail anvil
jesus what
trail anvil
looks like an amazing side card, shame the toughness is so low but
sudden lava
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD4lfJeKGGE&ab_channel=TheCommandZone
doggo
twilit canyon
looks like an amazing side card, shame the toughness is so low but
vs blue black its fine
also this should be a pretty cool cycle
waxen timber
This would have been way better if it was on cast or couldn't be countered. It hates on blue and black but, doesn't get value if they just counter it.
strong quartz
Lorwyn seems like limited bomb
strong quartz
They have the explosive vegetation ramp card too
Invasion of Zendikar
GB battles the intended archtype?
strong quartz
So like
Why did Norn not like
Systematically compleat 1 plane at a time
She could have just scaled her army up each invasion
languid quest
because she was arrogant and full of herself
strong quartz
Even then
She could have hit the 3 planes that the shock troops already went through
Shouldn't Kaldheim and Kamigawa also be full of sleeper agents
fallow citrus
oh they were sleepin alright
strong quartz
Norn is the CEO that fires all the middle managers and then wonders why everything is fucking up at once
twilit canyon
quite literally
hidden ermine
Actually there is merit in that approach
Going 1 by 1 allows the resistance to gather forces and mount a counterattack
If she attacks every plane at once theyre split
strong quartz
I mean going one by one basically adds half a plane to the forces
copper pecan
there are so many planes that there's no way they could invade every plane at once and still come out on top
she spread phyrexia's resources way too thin
strong quartz
You know you fucked up an invasion when you lose the sun vs 1 trillion lions hypothetical as the sun (segovia)
clever sun
LOL
IT'S TRUE SEGOVIA SHOULD BE A 100-0 MATCH FOR PHYREXIA AND THEY LOST
Ooops
all caps
Basically just the existence of other hyperadvanced planes should have dissuaded Phyrexia from going all over
Kamigawa, Ravnica, Alara, Vryn, New Capenna
Dominaria
strong quartz
They sent the business majors to Segovia
clever sun
They should have known better
twilit canyon
strong quartz
If they had more intel, you know Jin would be like "What do you mean Ravnica already got invaded"
clever sun
Or just
Jin going "hm the Emperor of Kamigawa soloed me and I only lived because of Tezzeret intervening. Maybe our invasion there should be more serious and efforts doubled down into the plane."
would have done a lot
or yeah just having spies across the multiverse. They even got the Phyrexian walkers. It could have been a lot more organized of an invasion
That said, I do think it fits from a narrative point
Norn was so full of Phyrexian dominance that she didn't even consider the process of what a real war is like
Phyrexia got lucky when invading and conquering Mirrodin. Karn did a lot of the heavy lifting by bringing them there, never warning anyone about the oil, and they got to grow unbothered until they captured the plane
The residents had to go through the whole ordeal with Memnarch and had a ton of residents get yeeted from Mirrodin
strong quartz
Didn't like all the Elves go "this oil shit is cool" as well
clever sun
Yes
copper pecan
they sent like one guy to segovia
strong quartz
Also Mirrodins are weak to phyresis already
clever sun
With Phyrexia's resources, the ideal plan would have been to launch a massive and sudden offensive on Ravnica and/or Kamigawa.
Once they go down, go to the other plane
From there, take on Alara and then Vryn
Cut off New Capenna as much as possible
Shut down New Capenna from awakening or anything
Leave backwater planes alone like Tarkir, Ikoria, Lorwyn, Eldraine
The biggest enemy past the aforementioned would be Kaladesh but if succeeding in taking the last few planes, they would likely be demoralized as hell
Arcavios would need to go soon after but only because five elder dragons with knowledge of planeswalking and access to a massive repertoire of spells from across the multiverse would not bode well to continued success
copper pecan
the invasion of mirrodin also took literal years of the mold growing in the center of the plane without anyone noticing too so they had tons of time to set that up
atomic harness
true kidge, mold and oil 
copper pecan
with this it seems like they just sort of attacked in random directions without any specific targets
atomic harness
birrodin was handled really well so I'm disappointed in this one 
birro into nph anyway
clever sun
Yeah it fits narratively since Norn was so confident she was gonna win
But it does read a bit frustrating
atomic harness
hubris speedrun 
clever sun
It's fine. They are far from the perfect definition of artifice anyhow
that honor goes to Esper
atomic harness
esper 
strong quartz
I'd actually go for a plane like Ixalan or Ikoria first
Lot of easy and powerful manpower
clever sun
I disagree with Ikoria
especially cus we saw how easily the monsters there mutated
They just said "oh oil? It's gross." and immediately mutated a resistance
strong quartz
Look I would take the L for the potential plus
clever sun
They would cost a lot of resources to overcome
They can be refueling after taking some major planes
In a more ideal scenario, the Phyrexianized walkers detail and share with the hive the nature of the planes they visited
I think though, this would have required Jin to have been the praetor in charge
copper pecan
them going after capenna was a really stupid idea
like why would you go after a plane that has tons of fighters speciallized against fighting you specifically
clever sun
"This plane has an active ability to suppress and destroy us, go destroy it by yourself with an invading force"
copper pecan
me when i am good at tactics
clever sun
I'd have made it a strong point to compleat military commanders in every plane invaded
copper pecan
i wouldn't have wasted time sending people to segovia
clever sun
Yeah LOL
copper pecan
like what of value was there, everything's really tiny, you can't do anything with it
clever sun
Gotta bring in those Segovian Angels into the invasion of Ikoria
No like actually what was the point of Segovia
Was it an accidental invasion like
The tree wouldn't show them that Segovia was tiny
copper pecan
invasion of segovia is so funny
they should have gone to gargantikar instead
at least that would be a more believable failure
strong quartz
like why would you go after a plane that has tons of fighters speciallized again...
One of the earliest cards shown is one soldier getting finessed by a lawyer
twilit canyon
they have plenty of believable failures if u consider that they invaded a lot of places recklessly
without a real plan
but yea
segovia?
lol
waxen timber
What even is the point of the phyrexians? Isn't it about giving up your humanity for immense strength?
clever sun
And it's funnier that none of the soldiers would question the invasion of various places
waxen timber
How are regular-ish people fighting them so well?
clever sun
What even is the point of the phyrexians? Isn't it about giving up your humanity...
Phyrexia is an allegory for fascism
Norn in particular
Originally a eugenics project heralded by Yawgmoth to create a "perfect species"
who set out to erradicate the imperfect
when New Phyrexia came about, they were tainted by the five suns of Mirrodin
and all the praetors (except for Urabrask) have a base in some extremist unifying ideology
strong quartz
How are regular-ish people fighting them so well?
Depends on the place but it seemed the had like a 1.1 odds against each plane
Theros got fucked
clever sun
They all have a name inspired by their type of fascism in a card or whatnot
Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant for example
Grand Cenobite is a bit of a contradictory title
Vorinclex is a pretty devout believer of social darwinism
copper pecan
pretty funny that phyrexia went from yawgmoth going "we can't invade mercadia because then a bunch of planeswalkers will come after me for ruining the economy" to "let's invade everywhere all at the same time"
clever sun
For as evil as Yawgmoth was, he was cunning
If it wasn't for Urza's unethical approach and Gerrard overcoming his own shortcomings, he probably would have won
twilit canyon
Theros got fucked
semi-surprised kaldheim handled shit better than theros
but tbh given how strong some of kaldheim warriors are and how warrior-culture the entire plane is
it makes a bit of sense
trail anvil
I'm loving all the "or battle" stuff on this text so it's not super combat centric
ayara seems like she has both a nice front and back side
twilit canyon
oh ayara is pretty sick
copper pecan
oh ayara is pretty sick
ok rankle
strong quartz
you know
that one Phyrexian could have just bleed themselves into the water on Segovia for an easy win
twilit canyon
atomic harness
If it wasn't for Urza's unethical approach *and* Gerrard overcoming his own shor...
oh how did yawgmoth kick the bucket by the way? did urza get to him or something else caused it?
clever sun
Gerrard sacrificed himself and used the two Gemstones to power up Karn to become the Legacy and it destroyed Yawgmoth after he stepped into Dominaria attempting to capture the plane
atomic harness
clever sun
There was a brief period of time when we believed he may not have been fully dead since Karona contacted five gods of each color
and Yawgmoth seemingly answered and whisked Karona to Phyrexia
atomic harness
so gerrard beheaded urza right and then inserted the stones into karn
what happened to both gerrard and urza after?
atomic harness
and that also killed yawg?
clever sun
Yep
The powerstones by all means, were the composite and physical form of Urza's spark
When it was combined with Karn (within the Weatherlight, piloted by Gerrard) it all culiminated in a huge explosion of white mana that destroyed Yawgmoth and caused Karn to inherit the spark
atomic harness
atomic harness
Yep
are there any written stories of the brother's war? would love to read more about it. Kinda like how ppl were posting MOM stuff from the magic site here a few days ago
it's my new favorite thing now 
atomic harness
Oh we didnt get anything on the site for the actual set BRO?
clever sun
Don't
atomic harness
our pod is greenless and the one that stomped us a while back was really interesting since it was fight turbo so no one could actually stick their commander for more than 3 seconds
Uh oh
atomic harness
hmm that's true
clever sun
The only real ways to build mono-green is either turbo or stax
[[Yisan Wandering Bard]]
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Legendary Creature — Human Rogue Bard
, 
, Put a verse counter on Yisan, the Wanderer Bard: Search your library for a creature card with mana value equal to the number of verse counters on Yisan, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.
Designed by Brian Fargo
2/3
clever sun
He is a lot more powerful than he might seem
atomic harness
hum I guess I could just make my current list a lot more staxy since that seems to be the way to keep up
it's hard to keep up at times because people say I have to kill combo guy number 1
but then combo guy number 2 plays gamble into last chance into mondrak godo twinflame instawin heehoo
but if I did it the other way around
clever sun
Huh?
atomic harness
combo guy number 1 wouldve won anyway
clever sun
Sounds a lot weaker than just playing mono-red Godo
Godo is more than powerful enough to win by himself
atomic harness
so what usually happens is there's 3 instawin ppl in the pod, I can only usually take care of one of them at a time
so maybe I have to run more staxy stuff
or like say I cant keep up in counter wars because they always have silence which makes things awkward
clever sun
The whole pod needs to pack interaction for combo decks
More likely, you need to run combos of that speed even if you do stax
atomic harness
Yeah I feel kinda priced or powered out because it's always tutor into an I win button
clever sun
Mono-Green can keep up... by going extremely fast
Or stax
Yisan is an excellent stax commander
The issue
Mono-color decks are more expensive than multi-colored decks
atomic harness
oh whys that?
clever sun
Green can (kinda) cope with mana dorks
But artifact ramp is still very important for mono-color
And you lose budget options going for less colors
No signets or talismans
You are stuck needing [[Mox Diamond]]
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Artifact
If Mox Diamond would enter the battlefield, you may discard a land card instead. If you do, put Mox Diamond onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
: Add one mana of any color.
clever sun
[[Chrome Mox]]
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Artifact
Imprint — When Chrome Mox enters the battlefield, you may exile a nonartifact, nonland card from your hand.
: Add one mana of any of the exiled card's colors.
atomic harness
oh I see but doesnt green have in built ramp? The lists I've seen usually go for stuff like elves or reach/culti
clever sun
Yes but it isn't perfect
Example: a Llanowar Elf will do you good to ramp sure
But [[Mana Crypt]]
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Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, Mana Crypt deals 3 damage to you.
: Add 
.
atomic harness
that's true 
clever sun
Mox Diamind and Chrome Mox are by all means an extra land drop
Lotus Petal is a proto-treasure
atomic harness
Not sure what to do with my list then to keep up outside of getting more big boy cards
Esper and magical fish are great at letting me keep up but when I dont see them it's rough
Sentinel*
clever sun
Rhystic Study is good
Where are you at with your list?
If you could share a link to your 99 on Moxfield I can take a good look and dissect it
atomic harness
Lemme get it
clever sun
It might be time to change commanders
atomic harness
oh thats a shame since I really like this one
clever sun
And I do say commanders cus you could probably go for an Esper partner pair
Like Tymna and Sakashima
clever sun
oh thats a shame since I really like this one
Yeah but it be like that
My favorite legendary is [[Nicol Bolas the Ravager]]
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Legendary Creature — Elder Dragon
Flying
When Nicol Bolas, the Ravager enters the battlefield, each opponent discards a card.
: Exile Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, then return him to the battlefield transformed under his owner's control. Activate only as a sorcery.
4/4
Nicol Bolas, the Arisen
Legendary Planeswalker — Bolas
+2: Draw two cards.
−3: Nicol Bolas, the Arisen deals 10 damage to target creature or planeswalker.
−4: Put target creature or planeswalker card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.
−12: Exile all but the bottom card of target player's library.
Loyalty: 7
clever sun
But he's so far from cEDH viable so I don't play him often
copper pecan
atomic harness
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/eRtuU4vEt0eT2Q03swZlxA
oo here it is. I'd really like to keep urza though as much as possible, since that's why I like the deck so much. get him out pretty early because of affinity for artifacts and then beat ppl up with karnstructs
It works but I have been feeling outpaced recently ever since our pod turned into combo hell
so our playgroup has like 8 players? I've kind of fallen in the bottom half now since me and three other buddies cant keep up anymore.
its also annoying since ppl are kind of on greedier lists with much less interaction, I have to be the one to burn counterspells just so everyone doesnt lose
clever sun
Yeah the biggest issue then is not that you are the one required to interact but more that
As a result, you get out-valued
Unfortunately this means your commander is incompatible with those pods
Raffine, Tymna/Sakashima, and Tivit would fix this issue for you
You know Raffine well
atomic harness
Raff
clever sun
[[Tivit, Seller of Secrets]]
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Legendary Creature — Sphinx Rogue
Flying, ward 
Council's dilemma — Whenever Tivit enters the battlefield or deals combat damage to a player, starting with you, each player votes for evidence or bribery. For each evidence vote, investigate. For each bribery vote, create a Treasure token.
While voting, you may vote an additional time. (The votes can be for different choices or for the same choice.)
6/6
clever sun
Tivit is an insane value commander
Hard to kill, hard to block
and is a one card combo with [[Time Siev]]
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Artifact
, Sacrifice five artifacts: Take an extra turn after this one.
"I pray that I am never considered useless or old." —Sharuum the Hegemon
atomic harness
What do I usually want to vote? Also uh tell me more about Raffine
atomic harness
so investigate if I want more cards, treasures if I need to ramp?
clever sun
What do I usually want to vote? Also uh tell me more about Raffine
It's quite literally the same theory behind Standard Esper Midrange
in EDH midrange at a higher power level is... a little different
atomic harness
yeah I would imagine a lot has to change no?
clever sun
Not entirely
Midrange is often characterized by either hatebear advantage or MAN
Raffine and Tymna do both well
MAN stands for Midrange Ad Nauseam
[[Ad Nauseam]]
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clever sun
Simply one of the most broken cards ever printed for card advantage
atomic harness
I will say I've been doing okay at the other pods since there are a lot of ppl here, so I've just been playing w them instead
ofc the playgroup is kinda egging me on for this but well the power level mismatch is really tough
clever sun
I personally don't love Raffine
But it is hard to dismiss when she gets going she gets going really really hard
atomic harness
[[tymna]]
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atomic harness
is there a different timmyna with blue
clever sun
Partner her with [[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces]]
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atomic harness
Ah okay so thats where the blue comes from
atomic harness
then hit a bunch and draw?
clever sun
Yep
atomic harness
im not sure if it can keep up or maybe I'm just remembering the high rolls too much, but games have become really fast at my pod, to the point where sometimes I cant even swing
once a black tutor resolves its pretty much over
clever sun
The beauty of Commanders under four mana is that they come down really early
with acceleration
Unfortunately, Esper does require all the fast mana too
But you have a bit more wiggle room
glad peak
There’s also Malcolm tymna if you want to go for both mana and card draw
You lose the glint horn combo but getting more consistent tymna triggers and gaining extra mana has shown to be effective
clever sun
Real talk, if you want green
Tymna Thrasios is actually not a bad idea
It's a very comfortable deck
atomic harness
[[thrasios]]
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Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
: Scry 1, then reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped. Otherwise, draw a card.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
Beneath crashing waves lies an ocean of secrets waiting to be explored.
1/3
clever sun
You can run a dork density and you want to do so because your dorks can help turn sidways for Tymna and fuel Thrasios activated ability
atomic harness
interesting. I'll uh think about it
glad peak
But that’s outdated now
twilit canyon
tymna thrasios is insanely powerful
it was my main deck for a while
its also v easy to understand
and it just flows well
glad peak
There are some combo lines that are hard to understand if you run razaketh chains and you lose the easy breach lines but it’s still very very strong
clever sun
Swift Druid works best as the second wincon since it is a much more natural wincon for Thrasios
Imo
clever sun
[[Swift Reconfiguration]]
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clever sun
[[Devoted Druid]]
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Creature — Elf Druid
: Add .
Put a -1/-1 counter on Devoted Druid: Untap Devoted Druid.
"Mana lurks in all things, even in the depths of one's own heart."
0/2
clever sun
with Thrasios you just win the game on the spot
atomic harness
will I be able to keep up w instawin combos 
thats kind of the concern
these are what has been dominating the playgroup
It's breya into bolas breach or thopsword with like 30+ big boy old cards (crypt, vault, all tutors, SDT)
This weird whatever mardu? commander that draws whenever legend cards are played. he has like 3 tutors and 10 instawincons with godo and friends (mondrak last chance twinflame radrik whatever)
Then there's this infinite loop with brago, he's the most fair I guess since he has to connect to actually go infinite
glad peak
Yep you easily outclass those
twilit canyon
but tnt is actually king of combos for a reason
and why i call it comfy
the wincons? easy and simple
the commanders? card advantage machines
u can easily play a long game
or push a turbo t2-3 win
glad peak
Tons of ways to get infinite mana and you have a commander that draws your entire deck with infinite mana
atomic harness
Long game with value right? How does it go for the fast win? since im v new to this
twilit canyon
and u can do a ton of combos in the deck too
glad peak
Also you can just sit back and keep drawing cards instead
clever sun
Yeah yeah
twilit canyon
u are also able to just fuck off for a few hundred turns if the table wants to be careful
tymna and thrasios will generate infinite advantage over time
glad peak
Also you can just play control 
atomic harness
oh yeah thoracle is also here at our place 
I can also do that right? but what are the other ways that it wins fast?
clever sun
Yup
Yes
The two combos are
Thoracle Consult
or LabMan Consult too actually
Tymna and Thrasios can both trigger LabMan
the other is Devoted Druid and Swift Reconfiguration
atomic harness
[[devoted druid]]
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Creature — Elf Druid
: Add .
Put a -1/-1 counter on Devoted Druid: Untap Devoted Druid.
"Mana lurks in all things, even in the depths of one's own heart."
0/2
clever sun
you can also do Razaketh
atomic harness
[[swift reconfiguration]]
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atomic harness
ah you're gonna have to walk me through this one
atomic harness
oh shit
twilit canyon
can tap and put a -1/-1 on itself
atomic harness
so thats infinite green?
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Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard
: Scry 1, then reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, put it onto the battlefield tapped. Otherwise, draw a card.
Partner (You can have two commanders if both have partner.)
Beneath crashing waves lies an ocean of secrets waiting to be explored.
1/3
atomic harness
nyaruhodo
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atomic harness
err well not consult since the deck is already empty
twilit canyon
and [[swan song]]
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twilit canyon
and [[memorys journey]]
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Instant
Target player shuffles up to three target cards from their graveyard into their library.
Flashback (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
twilit canyon
[[noxious revival]]
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Instant
(
can be paid with either or 2 life.)
Put target card from a graveyard on top of its owner's library.
"Dead or alive, my creations are stronger than Jin-Gitaxias's septic minions." —Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
twilit canyon
my bad
loop works like this
assasins trophy to kill all permanents on the table not owned by yourself
okay let me back up
you cast trophy
you cast journey shuffling it back
you draw it again as last card with thras
you cast trophy
repeat until all permanents are gone
noxious revival picks up journey
thats how they loop
then when all permanents are gone
glad peak
Make infinite birb
atomic harness
so trophy into journey into nox
then do it again
twilit canyon
making yourself a 2/2 bird
and then you keep making 2/2 birds
and then finally you journey three cards and pass the turn
your opponents have no permanents
you have infinite 2/2s
this combo works better if your source of infinite mana is [[isochron scepter]] and [[dramatic reversal]]
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Artifact
Imprint — When Isochron Scepter enters the battlefield, you may exile an instant card with mana value 2 or less from your hand.
, : You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.
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Artifact
, Sacrifice Lotus Petal: Add one mana of any color.
"Hard to imagine," mused Hanna, stroking the petal, "such a lovely flower inspiring such greed."
twilit canyon
so
its available to either swift druid or dramatic scepter
granted: i would only do this combo if thoracle and lab man are unavailable for some reason
like they got exiled or something
glad peak
If you want to be a funny guy you can also run hermit druid and go for that line
atomic harness
[[hermit druid]]
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Creature — Human Druid
, : Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a basic land card. Put that card into your hand and all other cards revealed this way into your graveyard.
Seeking the company of plants ensures that your wits will go to seed.
1/1
glad peak
It’s not
clever sun
unless your pod is very weak to Hermit
twilit canyon
hermit druid wins by having no basics (as you should u greedy bitch)
atomic harness
tnt sounds like a good time yeah but I think I'm priced out?
twilit canyon
mill [[narcomoeba]]
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glad peak
A lot of this is meta centric but I don’t think your pod is anywhere near close to being able to stop you
twilit canyon
[[fatestitcher]]
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Creature — Zombie Wizard
: You may tap or untap another target permanent.
Unearth (: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step or if it would leave the battlefield. Unearth only as a sorcery.)
1/2
twilit canyon
[[dread return]]
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twilit canyon
and thoracle
twilit canyon
tnt sounds like a good time yeah but I think I'm priced out?
also a big reason i can recommend tnt
its actually not expensive
well
comparatively
you can make budget compromises for a lot of cards
here
the only cards u realistically arent gonna be buying are the true duals
maybe force of will and mana crypt
or mox diamond
gilded drake
but the true duals arent mandatory
they are optimal sure
atomic harness
could I play it with suboptimal lands for example
twilit canyon
but not necessary
yep
pathways work in that slot
gilded drake is a luxury card
but u can run any 2 mana advantage spell or removal spell in that slot
glad peak
Just run kenrith’s transformation
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glad peak
2 mana draw a card and is removal
twilit canyon
[[finale of devastation]] is a theoretical wincon in the deck
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atomic harness
are collector oops and dauthi to flood opponents out?
glad peak
In other words: you can do a ton with infinite mana
twilit canyon
great but not the best
ouphe is great vs fast mana and treasures yes
voidwalker hates yards
and yes
they are good at stopping opponents from winning early
atomic harness
yeah treasures are dime a dozen here w the gobbo fucker that makes a million and uhh whats his face, tithe
twilit canyon
mana drain and cyclonic rift are not the best cards btw
i actively dislike running them
i usually go for [[snap]] over rift
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twilit canyon
or in tnt
glad peak
And there’s the issue with the deck, you don’t get to run dockside and breach 
twilit canyon
i like [[brazen borrower]]
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Creature — Faerie Rogue
Flash
Flying
Brazen Borrower can block only creatures with flying.
3/1
Petty Theft 
Instant — Adventure
Return target nonland permanent an opponent controls to its owner's hand.
twilit canyon
let me take the list i linked u and modify it for a budget with cards that are not necessary but will be nice upgrades eventually
twilit canyon
@atomic harness
no card in the deck is over 50$
if u look at the considering section u can see the lands u can eventually upgrade to
and some of the powerful interaction spells u will want to get ahold of like fow and fierce guardianship
atomic harness
twilit canyon
at the end of it all, this is a really realistic cedh deck to build up to
aaaand i totally forgot some cards
lets pretend i didnt forget to add memorys journey
atomic harness
All good kidge thanks everyone
for now I should probs just vibe with the lower power level pods no?
while I go look for this
twilit canyon
for now if u wanna play edh still yeah
if u wanna proxy out the full power list, go for it
but if proxies are a no-go at all for your pods
atomic harness
Ye no go
twilit canyon
this is a list thats actually pretty easy to build up to
$1k for a deck is only slightly more expensive than modern
and the bulk of the price is in staples
demonic tutor
rhystic study
ranger-captain
shock lands
atomic harness
carpet 
twilit canyon
carpet of flowers yea
actually
carpet is an easy cut if you dont play vs green a lot
err
blue
and blue-blue
as in
has island subtype lands
atomic harness
Uhh blue is common-ish here so probs cant cut it
twilit canyon
ah well
twilit canyon
its a broken card
if they use stuff like a shockland
that is an island
then yea its great
atomic harness
icic
twilit canyon
but carpet can be a cut
atomic harness
I could also cut down costs by using poopier lands right
twilit canyon
but its still a really powerful card
yeah
though the list rn is already using some pretty bad lands
not badlands
but bad lands
atomic harness
aha
twilit canyon
some u just really cant negotiate around in commander
like shock lands are pricey
but they are just too good not to run
and... will also go in every single deck u play them in
atomic harness
how real is preator's grasp? since it only gets rid of one key piece
or is that more so for stealing their whatever for yourself
twilit canyon
p grasp is actually funny as shit
u know that loop with mems journey and noxious revival?
u can do the same with p grasp
twilit canyon
and just exile their entire library
its way more time inefficient and really only done as a meme
twilit canyon
but p grasp can be a tutor for their best interactive spell, a combo piece that works with your own deck, or to completely cut them off of a combo
its a very versatile card
i never leave home without it
atomic harness
twilit canyon
theres a reason it only runs 29 lands
the total mana value of all cards is 110
1.59 mana value without lands
1.12 average with
this means citadel is on average
losing you 1 life
atomic harness
since I have old man saga could I slap it on here? it gets to sol ring or mox amber/lotus petal
twilit canyon
saga is not a bad card yeah
u can use it in the list if u want
since it is just value
though
it can be awkward when trying to t2 thrasios
atomic harness
hmm true
twilit canyon
though tbf lack of fetch lands right now also weaken deathrite shaman
but drs is just insane anyway
so hes worth keeping
atomic harness
oh yeah speaking of which do you go thrasios first then only bring out tymna when you want to go for the value plays?
assuming you dont have a fast wombo
atomic harness
oo
twilit canyon
tymna wants to come down on t2
so that t3 she and the dork can be attacking
in the complete build u probably wanna t1 tymna if at all possible
atomic harness
monka
twilit canyon
get tymna drawing cards t2
thrasios comes in when tymna can no longer swing in
either bc the opponents have developed boards to stop her
or u didnt draw any flying cards like ledger shredder
atomic harness
mood