#Magic the Gathering
rigid scarab
i guess ||vraan is the new black praetor now||
||If Praetors even exist after this||
zinc shard
hidden ermine
Wait, they just ||kill off Sheoldred?||
rigid scarab
Wait, they just ||kill off Sheoldred?||
||The end game is probably the other Praetors turning on Norn and reforming the mass genociders 
||
zinc shard
https://magic.wizards.com/en/formats/oathbreaker
Oathbreaker is now officially recognized by Wizards
copper pecan
looking at this, i feel like this has most of the problems edh has but like
significantly worse
granite badge
yeah this just looks like Brawl but worse
and Brawl was already strictly worse EDH
copper pecan
i feel like brawl would have been fine if it didn't have rotation
granite badge
ehhhh
copper pecan
being 1v1 and having a lower life total makes a huge difference
granite badge
half the fun of EDH is the huge variance
going from 100 -> 60 removes a non-neglibable amount of that imo
languid quest
yes Brawl is 60 card singleton format
does any one else still remember Tiny Leaders?
it had 50 card decks and limit of casting cost 3
it didn't really take off
copper pecan
kamigawa block pauper tiny leaders is the greatest format of all time
fallow citrus
I know the meme I saw when this was announced was uh
"I'm happy for the 17 people who still play oathbreaker"
copper pecan
for real though there are so many instants and sorceries that become ridiculously broken with the ability to recur them repeatedly without spending any card advantage
sudden lava
trail anvil
going from 100 -> 60 removes a non-neglibable amount of that imo
idk how it is in oathbreaker but 2 players also fucks some stuff hard
you get more variance among archetypes but stuff like aggro and control tends to run a lot of the same cards with slight variations, so you run into bungus/counter spell piles
clever sun
Witness
Jace has condensed the wincon and cards you play in this list a lot
No more need for Fblthp or Excavator
No more need for JWoM
We can just mill them out infinitely
modern minnow
why is lurrus legal in oathbreaker is there something i'm missing
zinc shard
are companions allowed?
twilit canyon
jund v jund is weird
who gets to their top end 1st usually wins but if opponent can curve removal for it
usually is enough
golden plover
||The Emperor killed Tamiyo||??
Would have been a lot better if ||Nashi did it||
They also established and immediately dropped that the Phyrexian walkers are basically being mind controlled and can snap out of it, but that ended up not mattering
Also, ||Tamiyo dying didn't really matter because she made a kami version of herself that's gonna live on||
fallow citrus
Hello Elspeth ma'am
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/magic-story/episode-3-mother-son-and-story
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/magic-story/episode-4-beneath-eyes-unblinking
golden plover
||Atraxa doesn't wanna do it anymore, and Pia is probably gonna die||
Nothing huge of note in chapter 4
Overall okay stories, but 3 was way better and 4 was meh
Overall not a fan of how fast the invasion feels now tho. Like they go to a plane and 20 minutes later it's half phyrexian
They weren't even on Kaladesh for more than a few hours and the birds and all of Ghirapur are Phyrexian?
trail anvil
jund and kethis at the top
did your sister have a good read on this meta or was this the known meta before?
cause I remember her posting both of these recently
twilit canyon
> jund and kethis at the top
did your sister have a good read on this meta or wa...
i posted jund
and we updated kethis
twilit canyon
Overall not a fan of how fast the invasion feels now tho. Like they go to a plan...
i think itd be weirder if the phyrexians were not extremely meticulous and fast with their invasions
also they keep bringing up the end
they are recently reintroducing the promised end to arena
coincidence?
golden plover
i think itd be weirder if the phyrexians were not extremely meticulous and fast ...
It took them literal years to compleat mirrodin
It's weird that they couldn't take over one plane that fast, but they can take over a ton of them instantly
twilit canyon
1st invasion + advancements in tech
they have gotten a lot of upgrades and efficiencies on top of catching planes off guard
copper pecan
yeah didn't they mention that jin had been working on making the oil more potent or something
i feel like given how much time they've had to work on improving the oil it makes sense that they would be able to do it more quickly now
twilit canyon
plus i will say they invaded mirrodin itself pretty quickly
the rebellion took a while
copper pecan
yeah didn't they say in the all will be one story that by the time they were able to even start the rebellion the phyrexians had already gotten like 90% of the population
trail anvil
i posted jund
o yeah 
twilit canyon
my sister and i posted every named decklist here iirc
dense berry
there was literally nothing invading mirrodin for years
the mycosynth just kept growing
now there is an actual Phyrexian force to invade with
copper pecan
it was less like an invasion and more like mold growing in everyone's basements
fallow citrus
oh damn
twilit canyon
same
copper pecan
just realized that the fact that ayara's new card is called "widow of the realm" means that [[konrad]] is fucking dead
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Knight
Whenever another creature dies, or a creature card is put into a graveyard from anywhere other than the battlefield, or a creature card leaves your graveyard, Syr Konrad, the Grim deals 1 damage to each opponent.
: Each player mills a card.
5/4
copper pecan
f
twilit canyon
like p much all of her past suitors
burnt relic
BAH GOD
lusty trench
Had an odd match yesterday, a person in my pod had game next round so we needed to do something, I searched for answers, then the player after me decided to... Protean hulk combo?
And they got mad at me for stopping it?
Like bruh I'm not letting you get infinite treasures so you can sac them all to kill us
copper pecan
commander has a weird amount of people who get mad when you don't just let them win
lusty trench
Like I would've been cool with it had they promised not to kill till their next round
But they were being evasive about it saying "oh well I don't have game now"
Yeah that'd be because your animate dead hasn't resolved yet
rigid scarab
commander has a weird amount of people who get mad when you don't just let them ...
Naturalize someone's Esper Sentinel and see what happens
lusty trench
Naturalize someone's Esper Sentinel and see what happens
Tbh I'd be happy for the cantrip that made my opponent use removal
Unless they pay the one in which case eh
glad peak
1 mana time walk is pretty good
There’s someone I know who got mad at me about my inconsistent deck being too consistent due to faithless looting 
languid quest
Naturalize someone's Esper Sentinel and see what happens
that's what you do to Rhystic Study as well
glad peak
Oh right should I mention that guy runs rhystic, sentinel, and remora and complains I draw too much? 
languid quest
🤣
twilit canyon
can anyone take a stab at what this dude is malding over
i bet nobody will guess
twilit canyon
no this is pertaining to modern
twilit canyon
nope
glad peak
Losing to shard volley in burn?
glad peak
Shard volley in murktide 
twilit canyon
god
glad peak
Nah I know that’s wrong but it’s be funny
twilit canyon
thats be funny as fuck
copper pecan
[[shard volley]]
lost widgetBOT
fallow citrus
shard volley against burn?
copper pecan
wait is this about lord of the rings being in modern
twilit canyon
nope
glad peak
I remember when shard volley was at least playable
Wait was he malding about a fun-of shard volley in a deck tech?
twilit canyon
they deleted it fuck
fallow citrus
noooo
lost widgetBOT
glad peak
Huh I remember seeing it in one of the deck dumps
Probably another deck then, I still think it’s bad
fallow citrus
ik it's played in standard red
twilit canyon
yes but this dude is 100% convinced it is a secret burn staple that needs to be banned
copper pecan
wait
do they think that lightning bolt is banworthy too?
if not then this is an absolutely ridiculous position to hold
twilit canyon
the scry is the 2 for 1
lusty trench
scry
Like it's good as an addition sometimes but you don't pay mana for scry
Unless it's top
glad peak
Reminds me of one guy who swore to me that skullcrack deals virtually 11 damage because he stopped 8 lifelink once before
Or the guy who used skullcrack then deflecting palm
copper pecan
the scry is the 2 for 1
so any card that has multiple effects is a 2 for 1 according to this guy?
twilit canyon
yep lmao
copper pecan
literally ancestral recall
golden plover
lusty trench
I don't get it
golden plover
Clues were added in SoI
lusty trench
OH SHIT IM DUMB THATS BRILLIANT
sudden lava
that is punny
twilit canyon
trail anvil
slogurk my beloved ❤️
trail anvil
my beloved ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
glad peak
How do I convince people to add more interaction to their decks without them telling me I’m playing cedh
copper pecan
ask them what they think cedh is
if you make your deck weak on purpose you don't get to complain about losing
glad peak
Yeah I made my deck weak on purpose but actually contain interaction and I win by grinding them out through natural card draw
Feels bad
sleek ferry
Yeah I made my deck weak on purpose but actually contain interaction and I win b...
Sounds like your pod is just way too casual for you tbh
Same stigma that blue players get in casual pods due to them having the most easily accessible interaction
glad peak
If a shock killing 1 thing is too competitive then I’m disappointed
modern minnow
This is just people wanting a 100% wr in a format you get 25% in
Tbf i dont think I've really met any commander players like that too often
golden plover
Welp RIP ||Lukka|| you were wasted from day 1
||Can't have gruul walkers for more than a set, huh?||
atomic harness
||rip bozo||
hidden ermine
The proportions
golden plover
I think it's the composition, but it just feels too silly or something
Calling it now, this one is slush art
This one is cool tho
And
lusty trench
Squidward
golden plover
I kinda don't like that all the phyrexian walkers are ||dying near immediately and getting super unsatisfying endings||
Like Lukka ||literally just showed up and got ate by Valdrok||
There's nothing fun about that for a narrative
At least||Tamiyo has her spirit ai thing, despite the wanderer literally teleporting behind her and killing her ||
twilit canyon
i mean it makes sense for tamiyo's case she faced the most op walker rn besides maybe teferi and elspeth
lukka is lukka
lusty trench
You could tell me lukka tripped on a banana peel and died
golden plover
Yeah but it's just boring from a narrative standpoint
lusty trench
I'd believe you
golden plover
Like honestly, it just feels bad to have them die from random happenstance
copper pecan
||lukka getting completely stomped is on brand for him tbh||
dense berry
when i play casual edh i build my decks to lose to precons
i avoid cards that go wide
or generate lots of advantages
lusty trench
I just make mine 99 forest and one lost in the woods
dense berry
i try to play stuff that benefits opponents as much as me
golden plover
You're missing out on 99 Mountain and [[Ashling the Pilgrim]]
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Elemental Shaman
: Put a +1/+1 counter on Ashling the Pilgrim. If this is the third time this ability has resolved this turn, remove all +1/+1 counters from Ashling the Pilgrim, and it deals that much damage to each creature and each player.
1/1
modern minnow
For edh i feel like my decks are at pretty awkward levels for one of my irl playgroups
Because i have like optimised £50 budget and then like really strong but non cedh
twilit canyon
||lukka getting completely stomped is on brand for him tbh||
he thought he was all about that
he thought he was him
glad peak
You can make some dirty stuff with that budget
My favorite is red impulse draws+ rituals + godo helm
sudden lava
best commander deck is just supporting a second player :p
granite badge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhpoE42YxdI&ab_channel=TolarianCommunityCollege
Sm-SmallANT???
languid quest
yup that's what he calls himself
glad peak
Oh hey the pokemon guy
dense berry
as a person who has played more edh than just about anybody on the planet
there is no fuckin way theyre getting me to watch commander content
well maybe if its a pod of like
duke/bob/finkle/mengucci
granite badge
eh The Game Knights is fun imo
mainly for the production value
although tbf they play up the "reality tv show" bit a bit too much which I can understand not liking
copper pecan
game knights feels scripted to me. i know that it isn't but it really has the vibes of a scripted show and i don't know why
granite badge
it wouldn't surprise me if it is, at least in the sense of they fudge hands a bit to make for more interesting games
if they showcased say Thoracle CEDH decks it wouldn't really capture the same middle ground their lists usually do inbetween raw casual and raw competitive edh
there was one game where Jimmy had a infinite on board(a way to infinitely loop Dockside Extorsonist for infinite LTB's Treaures etc) and he actively went out of his way to sabotage his own infinite
modern minnow
You can make some dirty stuff with that budget
Yeah nah its multani voltron
dense berry
so my friend sold a chunk of his collection to buy a top of the line printer
30th anniversary edition inspired this move
instead of buying a 1000 dollar pack of mtg proxy cards hes spending less than that to essentially have infinite proxies
dense berry
agreed
he sold high end shit like moxes too
this could be huge for the local mtg scene tbh
golden plover
Proxies also let me make my decks prettier
Like this is an assortment of real and proxy cards in my Elsha deck
(ignore it being on the floor, in the process of moving)
The Bolt, Swords, Fact or Fiction, Flooting, Remora, Counterspell, Gamble, and Tef are real and the rest are proxies
dense berry
we're gonna be printing out whole decks and cubes
im definitely gonna use this as a way to play more vintage
golden plover
Nice
sudden lava
could work for some white commanders
copper pecan
i don't think this is good design
dense berry
for this is a joke
copper pecan
emblems shouldn't be something you can get for 2 mana
sudden lava
yeah its pretty strong
copper pecan
also this doesn't function with a lot of stuff
like what happens if you use this on [[esper sentinel]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact Creature — Human Soldier
Whenever an opponent casts their first noncreature spell each turn, draw a card unless that player pays 
, where X is Esper Sentinel's power.
The more Esper changes, the more he refuses to.
1/1
dense berry
this is like modern horizons 2 level design ngl
sudden lava
power is zero so they pay zero
copper pecan
also white isn't supposed to get hard removal for this cheap unless it has a downside
wait nvm i misread the card
sudden lava
it targets your own stuff yeah
granite badge
yeah balance wise this is just complete trash
but I think the intended flavor is pretty neat?
like sorta like [[One with the Stars]]
lost widgetBOT
copper pecan
god i don't understand the people who get mad when the opponent tries to interact with their stuff
like, sorry they're not just letting you win
copper pecan
it's why i stopped playing commander tbh
dense berry
commander is the only really accessible eternal format
granite badge
tbh that mindset of "I'm here to have fun not to win" drives me nuts when it comes up in the yugioh deck help chats
dense berry
im looking forward to having this printer setup in town so players can start getting experience with vintage and legacy
copper pecan
i got sick of people playing badly on purpose and then getting mad when other people aren't also deliberately handicapping themselves for no reason
dense berry
tbh that mindset of "I'm here to have fun not to win" drives me nuts when it com...
some people can't be helped
what really gets me is when people get upset when i tell new players to pick up top tier decks
like in the master duel channels i was telling people to make spright while its in the shop for some freelo but then people are like eww dont make more cancer
copper pecan
how dare you give good advice to new players. you need to recommend that they play bad decks that they won't be able to with because then i can pubstomp them
dense berry
i swear thats how people think sometimes
never cared much for ladder pulling
would rather everyone succeed
and in that vein when it comes to my next casual deck i think im gonna build some kinda sneak and show deck
with fun group hug elements
im thinking reaper king will be the commander
so i can play both sneak attack and atraxa
glad peak
Yeah I’d rather have more interesting games than to pubstomp
Some people’s concerns about decks being too hard for beginners or potential ban targets is real though
rigid scarab
That's the pattern
Someone builds a bad deck that loses
Ask for help
And then get extremely defensive about it being for fun
And when they realise that they can't have their bad pet card and consistently win at the same time
They choose to attack the game
lusty trench
Just a PSA for y'all ||tybalt is dead dead||
fallow citrus
atomic harness
True aeri
golden plover
Story articles today:
||basically nothing happens on Ixalan, Etali was compleated and killed by Zacama||
||Wrenn is gonna merge with the Realmbreaker, Nissa and Chandra talk, Nissa dead||
fallow citrus
golden plover
• A double-faced token (one that transforms)
This feels like a bad idea to do in paper
lusty trench
"A creature capable of dealing eleven poison counters"
fallow citrus
oh they're reprinting blazing shaol then
sleek ferry
Oh I came here for no reason
New guy keeps saying ygo is cheaper than mtg to get into, but wants us to ignore standard/edh/pioneer and only look at modern/legacy
twilit canyon
modern sure
itll be cheaper in the long run since the 1 modern deck u build will never rotate and will most always be viable in some capacity
but legacy?
strong quartz
||Wrenn is gonna merge with the Realmbreaker, Nissa and Chandra talk, Nissa dead...
Wrenn that's not a good idea
sleek ferry
To continuously update? Nah
I mean Yugioh meta decks average lifespan is 4-6 months
Vs your average mordern deck’s lifespan being what, 1.5-2 years minimum?
fallow citrus
plus lands will always be usable
so in the future you'll only ever have to pay for the rest of your deck if you sort out a manabase
sleek ferry
That’s the other thing I said. In modern, the land base is a pretty good chunk of the deck’s cost
Once you have your land base, building the deck is easy
golden plover
Wrenn that's not a good idea
Nah apparently it's different because the writers said so?
Wrenn has an "anti-magic" power that somehow includes phyresis
It doesn't make any sense but the writers said she's immune
sleek ferry
Do we have confirmation on how old wrenn is?
golden plover
Nope, but she's post-mending
Also, Six was only a couple years ago
And that was when she sparked
sleek ferry
I mean we could assume wrenn has been through worst stuff than the phyrexians then
So it’s not that far fetched for them to be immune
golden plover
It kinda came out of nowhere
Like there's 0 mention that Wrenn has this magic until Chandra goes "are you sure that's a good idea" and Wrenn goes "oh I'm immune"
sleek ferry
Tbf we also know very little about wrenn in general
golden plover
Yeah but she only learned what phyrexia was in the VOW story
There's no reason to assume she'd know she's immune
sleek ferry
Well considering they’re part of the earth, they would have been the first ones to feel phyresis no?
At least from the people there
golden plover
Not really, but the rules of phyresis change every couple minutes
So fuck it, I guess Wrenn can randomly realize she's immune
I mean Chandra got stabbed here and it didn't do anything but Nahiri getting scratched was enough to do her in
twilit canyon
chandra mentions she can cauterize her wound with fire
id assume the oil would also not survive that process
aa for wrenn i thought we knew she had this resistance to change in her physiology bc of her magic on innistrad
clever sun
Vs your average mordern deck’s lifespan being what, 1.5-2 years minimum?
it can be a lifetime for Modern
Modern Merfolk were playable ages ago and have gotten better
With a few upgrades here and there
sleek ferry
Yeah but I mean that was the point
People always seem to have this stigma of tcg’s with rotating sets = more expensive other formats
hidden ermine
Buy-in cost is higher, with modern being on the cheaper side
Id say its almost 3 times rn compared to the average YGO deck
sleek ferry
Also like in the last 3 years we’ve gotten a decent amount of modern usable cards in core sets
hidden ermine
Kashtira is 800 but Kashtira is twice as expensive as most decks lmao
sleek ferry
How much is Kashtira going for in paper?
It was over 1k, but everything crashed hard
clever sun
So then still double for most Modern decks
Kashtira is as expensive as Modern decks are for the most part
hidden ermine
My impression was that modern decks are over 1k rn
sleek ferry
Over 1k, but it’s like 1.1-1.2k
clever sun
Though I believe Creativity and Domain Zoo have some like. Weirdly budget prices
Even as 5c decks
hidden ermine
Yeah Murktide and 4c is what came to mind
clever sun
Triomes fixed a ton of prices for 5c decks
And fetchland reprints too
Since you can use off-color fetches and get Triomes more easily
But yeah in any case there are a ton of Modern decks below 1k
Below 900 even
Below 800 for some
Burn and Mill are the two famous for being rather cheap but very competitive at around $500
Mono-White Humans join them
Merfolk can probably be put together for about... 700? 800?
Depends on your side
Amulet Titan and Yagwmoth combo can also be build for around 7-8 hundred
Affinity is pretty cheap overall as is Scales
Scales might be a bit more expensive but Affinity can be built for like $400
fallow citrus
pretty sure hammer can be built a little cheaper if you play mono w hammer
sleek ferry
So just so we can confirm.
Pauper - dirt cheap
EDH - actual entry point is $60
Standard - $100-$200
Modern - 800-1.2k, but the investment becomes worth it after 6 months in Yugioh time
Idk how people can call mtg not affordable
Oh also pioneer
twilit canyon
pio-what now?
sleek ferry
The failed format x2 now
Also like, I will keep saying this, set booster boxes are by far the best pack opening experience in any tcg
MH2 set booster boxes had me feeling as if I robbed wotc blind
clever sun
pretty sure hammer can be built a little cheaper if you play mono w hammer
I think Azorius is too good to pass on Hammer
Imo
Oh another benefit
If you buy Hammer, you most likely can then afford Affinity for cheap
fallow citrus
yeah true
sleek ferry
Modern really kills a lot of ygo players thoughts on what mtg is like
“Mtg is too slow”
clever sun
Modern is quite fast but every deck has a grind plan (usually)
Legacy is closer but Vintage is more accurate
hidden ermine
Eh, Id disagree Vintages play pattern is a bit further away from ygo most of th etime
sleek ferry
I tend to ignore legacy and vintage since you’re most likely to find the stereotypical sexist/homophobe/racist mtg player in those circles
sleek ferry
Marisol, how much bank do you make 
clever sun
Right now?
I would average about 150k a year
Last year I made 165k but I had a busy year
sleek ferry
Ah okay, I thought you were going to hit me with like half a mil or more
And you’re around my age iirc?
sleek ferry
Well around, but I got 3 years on you
clever sun
Oh you're old old got it
trail anvil
I didn't realize we were born like a week apart
fallow citrus
I tend to ignore legacy and vintage since you’re most likely to find the stereot...
legacy can be fine
sleek ferry
I should show you guys the video of me telling my wife I’m going to sprint 100 meters as fast as possible
And 3 strides in I pulled both my quads
clever sun
legacy can be fine
My LGS is pretty solid for both Legacy and Vintage
but every once in a while, this one guy likes making his presence known and is the stereotype /r/freemagic user
fallow citrus
would be nice to play legacy irl but I am poor™️
clever sun
Have you tried not being poor?
I will never forgive the server for getting rid of peepowide
fallow citrus
Have you tried not being poor?
tried but didn't succeed
clever sun
trail anvil
trail anvil
thanks for reminding me though now it's time to run an emote poll to get it removed
clever sun
I don't wanna be thirty
twilit canyon
all u old ass bitches
twilit canyon
mentally im still like 18
sleek ferry
You guys are Irish twins?
twilit canyon
unlike u nerds i have a tiktok
sleek ferry
My wife has a TikTok and she’s 32
twilit canyon
yea right
clever sun
You guys are Irish twins?
Close
sleek ferry
I also sometimes help her produce her TikTok’s
clever sun
Misty is 13 months younger than I am
twilit canyon
(she lacks critical knowledge)
sleek ferry
I’m talking about cigs. They banned anybody borned before like 1997 from buying cigs legally or some shit like that
I forget the specifics
Sorry after
Not before
twilit canyon
they should ban ppl born befire 97 from buying them too
also idt it was ever passed
clever sun
Huh
sleek ferry
I’m assuming the year was to take into account people already knee deep into nicotine addiction
sleek ferry
Also, my wife sent me the pic after I pulled my quads
clever sun
I do think Modern is, over time, cheaper than Yugioh
hidden ermine
Idk about that tbh
clever sun
You don't know a lot
sleek ferry
I think def tbh
hidden ermine
A lot of YGOs cost in non-Kash decks is in staples that stay good for a long time
clever sun
Yugioh has effective soft-rotation with the banlist
hidden ermine
Plus Modern has been changing a lot more recently than before
sleek ferry
It’s the same with land bases in mtg
clever sun
And while staples almost always hold glue for a deck, it is the same as
hidden ermine
Lands are nowadays not the only big cost spike
clever sun
They really need to reprint the Khan's fetch lands
clever sun
[[$Wrenn and Six]]
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
Why her though?
hidden ermine
And as we get more Horizons well get more of those
Isnt she a part of the Creativity decks as a 4-of?
sleek ferry
A lot of the good mh2 stuff was rare though, not even mythic, outside of like monkey
We and the elementals
clever sun
Still Murktide was found to be not a good four-of
And yeah I agree
Prime reprint targets too
hidden ermine
Thats the other thing, YGO reprints much more aggressively
clever sun
Correct but that is because the game still has soft rotations they need to keep up with
hidden ermine
YGO might barely be more expensive if you always want to have the best deck in every meta instead of sticking to one
sleek ferry
Ygo reprints cards with value more aggressively *
Mtg reprints so much
But a lot of the shit they reprint is some Timmy shit
clever sun
For Commander and whatnot
hidden ermine
Even that theyre not doing as much anymore, besides commander stuff, like nowadays they dont print shock as much as they print "shock with upside"
And obviously were not getting Bolts in standard
clever sun
They have only printed a new shock with upside once in many many years
The last time it happened was in Khans
The next time was all the way to Innistrad Midnight Hunt
Six years
More?
More I believe
hidden ermine
Really?
I swear Kaladesh had one at least
No wait
Kaladesh had Shock
... huh, what was I thinking of then
Obviously 3 mana cancel with upside is a staple but that one is whatever
Regardless, I wager that if you dont want to buy Kash this format exactly, keeping up with YGO in the last 3 years wouldve been cheaper than keeping up with modern
sleek ferry
On a competitive level? 0 chance
copper pecan
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/712415038890180609/maros-march-of-the-mach...
a creature capable of dealling 11 poison
this has to be [[blightsteel colossus]], right?
lost widgetBOT
hidden ermine
I dont think theyd reprint blightsteel into standard
sleek ferry
Imperms + prosps alone would have ran you 400 dollars during that 3 year span
copper pecan
oh wait what am i talking about that has infect
it's probably just something referencing blightsteel colossus
hidden ermine
Imperms + prosps alone would have ran you 400 dollars during that 3 year span
Yeah, and thats only a bit more than buying Ragavans on release
copper pecan
“If the opponent protects it, remove a defense counter from it.”
this is probably something to do with battles
copper pecan
"Legendary Creature – Elder Giant Dog"
this is probably uro/kroxa and the graveyard hoser dog from theros beyond death
hidden ermine
They havent been this tightlipped about any new mechanic for a while, have they?
copper pecan
Legendary Creature – Ape Dinosaur Turtle
this is kolga and yidaro
golden plover
>a creature capable of dealling 11 poison
this has to be [[blightsteel colossus]...
It's probably an offshoot of Blightsteel
copper pecan
Legendary Creature – Cyclops Homunculus
this is fblthp and borborygmos
golden plover
The other notables are Flbthp and Borbrygmos and Uro and Kunoros
sleek ferry
Btw, its been long enough now, can we return to ikoria?
golden plover
I still think transforming tokens is a bad idea in paper tbh
hidden ermine
Ikoria wasnt popular enough to warrant a fast return
golden plover
I'll have to see what the text on the card looks like, but I can't see it looking pretty
sleek ferry
It wasn’t?
hidden ermine
Between Companions being a nightmare, Mutate being a mess and the flagship new character being a punching bag ... yeah it kinda wasnt
sleek ferry
I’m pretty sure ikoria was the most popular plane from that era
golden plover
Token complexity has been a huge issue lately so I'm worried the token is gonna look stupid as hell
sleek ferry
Cause not a damn person gave a shit about theros
golden plover
Hell even stuff like [[Mage's Attendant]] is too complex for the token imo
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Cat Rogue
When Mage's Attendant enters the battlefield, create a 1/1 blue Wizard creature token with ", Sacrifice this creature: Counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays ."
Crime sometimes makes unlikely allies into lifelong friends.
3/2
copper pecan
why?
golden plover
She's fine and bordering on okay, but tokens should be way more simple than they've been
copper pecan
i don't agree with that
golden plover
Half of her text box is the token's text
copper pecan
i think the token complexity is fine
it's a simple ability that's easy to remember
it's not like they're giving the token a million different effects or something
golden plover
I guess she's relatively harmless, but there's been a lot of tokens that have too much text lately
hidden ermine
I dont know if we had the Rabiah scale review of Ikoria
golden plover
And I dunno how you do a transforming token without it having too much text
hidden ermine
But the state of design mentioned that while people liked the general theme, the disconnect between cards and stories, the confused monster theming and Companions were pretty big hampers on the sets likeability
golden plover
It's also gonna require a rules change
Since technically, if a token should transform, it stops existing
hidden ermine
Companions alone hurt a lot though
People tend to be more negative on planes when their associated set was broken
golden plover
Eldraine is pretty much the only exception, yeah
sleek ferry
Ikoria had so much cool shit beyond companions though
sleek ferry
Cycling matters
hidden ermine
Mutate was kind of a flop
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Beast
Mutate 
(If you cast this spell for its mutate cost, put it over or under target non-Human creature you own. They mutate into the creature on top plus all abilities from under it.)
Reach, trample
Whenever this creature mutates, destroy target artifact or enchantment an opponent controls.
4/4
hidden ermine
Conceptually yes, it was basically the Digimon TCG after all
But it didnt end up playing well
golden plover
Everyone I know felt like mutate was too clunky and the payoffs were too rare
hidden ermine
Its storm scale rating is 6
golden plover
Like sure, gemrazer and the octopus were cool, but 99% of the time, mutate felt like it didn't do enough
sleek ferry
Also ikoria commander precons is what set off the edh revolution
clever sun
that was mostly cus of how powerful some cards and commanders from there were
It is worth noting that
Without the free spells, I don't think many would remember the Ikoria pre-cons
sleek ferry
We had 1 really strong commander in kalamax
golden plover
Yeah the ikoria precons were really only remembered because of the guardianship cycle
golden plover
Some of the partners were cool
sleek ferry
Oh I forgot about ukkima
clever sun
Brallin and Shabraz
golden plover
But no one remembers Gavi or the Humans matter dude
clever sun
The face commanders for the most part were irrelevant
hidden ermine
Dont get me wrong, I think Ikoria is sick conceptually
hidden ermine
The execution was just lacking
clever sun
Ikoria? Cool as hell in theory
golden plover
People liked the precons for 2 sets of partners and because the free spells were broken as hell
clever sun
The story was lacking and the set mechanics were just okay
golden plover
Yeah Ikoria should have really been a block or something
It needed more time to focus on the setting and explore it's mechanics
hidden ermine
The story and cards were just super disconnected too
golden plover
Like I bet most people can't even name the color combo regions
clever sun
Yep
sleek ferry
I think if they revisit it now, with the way they’ve been going all out on a plane’s mechanics it would be way better
clever sun
I know them cus of the triomes
golden plover
The story and cards were just super disconnected too
So has every set since Theros Beyond Death to be fair
hidden ermine
Not to the degree of Ikoria Id say
sleek ferry
We haven’t had a single bad set mechanically since like pre kaldheim
hidden ermine
Im sure we will return to Ikoria
golden plover
Hell, the story outright contradicted the cards on ikoria, but that's true for DMU, BRO, and ONE too
clever sun
So has every set since Theros Beyond Death to be fair
This is not true
golden plover
Oh I forgot about SNC where the cards told an entirely different story than the set
clever sun
Theros and that immediate period after were insanely more disconnected and muddled
hidden ermine
New Capenna is also conceptually cool and execution-wise not so much
So I expect we wont see it for a while
golden plover
Yeah SNC also needed to be a few sets
golden plover
One to explore the factions fighting, and then one for Ob's Revolution/The Elspeth stuff
clever sun
They banked on Innistrad being a more important two-set story
golden plover
Sidenote I think it's still really wack they didn't have the riveters in the story at all
sleek ferry
Too bad I could have cared less about midnight hunt
Also they did werewolves dirty
Compared to vampires
golden plover
They're mentioned all of once when Elspeth fights a few riveters by the museum
But they're NEVER seen for the rest of the story
hidden ermine
I get why they dont want to do blocks anymore
But I feel like planes have suffered greatly for it
clever sun
They have been doing them again sometimes
golden plover
Like Kaldheim needed 2 sets minimum also
clever sun
It is inconsistent
hidden ermine
I guess part of the issue is that sets are always one plane only
Like it'd be nice if you could get the YGO thing of having the previous plane be explored further and a new plane introduced for example
golden plover
I think the solution would be to have blocks when the story calls for it, but they want standard to feel more varied so they wouldn't
sleek ferry
I think it’s less that they don’t want to do blocks, and more that they want blocks to feel important
hidden ermine
But hard to make work in magics design paradigm
golden plover
The other solution would be to do the Yu-Gi-Oh thing, yeah
Have it so that stories are told via multiple sets and not fully a single plane
sleek ferry
Like a block for the peak of the phyrexian storyline makes perfect sense
clever sun
I'm super excited at the prospect of what Spice8Rack's theory in his latest video could mean for Magic stories
They mentioned a permanent change to the multiverse
golden plover
Honestly, that'd also probably be better since it'd allow reprints too which can be hard when reprints get tied to a single plane
clever sun
And I hope it is that planar travel is no longer very difficult
sleek ferry
But like a block for a new plane like SNC? Nah, we can just revisit it in the future
golden plover
Like we won't see the Triomes again until returns to Ikoria and New Capenna
hidden ermine
And I hope it is that planar travel is no longer very difficult
Ill be honest, I am not super excited for that with magics current story direction tbh?
golden plover
If they did the yugioh thing, it'd allow for them to be reprinted wherever they feel like they'd fit standard
clever sun
Ill be honest, I am not super excited for that with magics current story directi...
It has flaws for sure
But it can allow sets to become blocks more easily
Like for example with the upcoming Caverns of Ixalan and Wilds of Eldraine
hidden ermine
I mean itd allow for the YGO thing which would be great
golden plover
Like a block for the peak of the phyrexian storyline makes perfect sense
Yeah it's honestly kinda wack they didn't dedicate at least a few sets to the buildup to MOM
golden plover
Like I guess DMU is supposed to be "part of the block"
hidden ermine
But my concern is that that kinda status quo
golden plover
But WAR had a whole ravnica block leading up to it
sleek ferry
DMU is supposed to be the prologue imo
hidden ermine
Requires a lot of careful work and would upend magics tendency to have each plane be "this is the plane where X gimmick is around"
clever sun
Yes
hidden ermine
Which idk if they can pull it off
golden plover
We got to see hints at what was gonna happen all the way back in the first set
hidden ermine
I felt that with more recent sets they have leaned on that crutch more and more
clever sun
It would be tricky but not impossible
They kind of have yes but that is also why I think it is what they will do
hidden ermine
But I suppose well have to wait and see
golden plover
I think magic needs to massively change the way they do sets to make planes/stories more interesting but I highly doubt they will because of the money
Like I think they need to go to a small scale story structure after this, but they're definitely following the MCU "each threat needs to be bigger and scarier"
clever sun
Because Realmbreaker is based off of Kaldheim's world tree, and that tree holds effectively various planes together, I can see that being a situation where the fixed Realmbreaker just connects all the worlds
With a few here and there able to push them out
clever sun
A good one though
hidden ermine
If pulled off, sure
But it also kinda sounds like DCs ... second cosmology?
Or third
golden plover
There definitely needs to be some form of change tho
hidden ermine
I dont remember
golden plover
Because I'm sure otherwise it's gonna be "Elspeth kills norn and the status quo is back to normal"
golden plover
Hell, spice brought up a really good point when they were talking about innistrad
clever sun
We already saw it will not be
golden plover
There's all of 3 flavor texts that mention everything from SoI
clever sun
Yeah that was actually a dropped ball
golden plover
These big events need to actually feel big
clever sun
You know what I would have accepted with it?
If like
Emrakul was just gaslighting the plane to think she just was never there
golden plover
Like next time we go to ravnica, there needs to be impact of a fucking planewide zombie army destroying the entire city
clever sun
And the few flavor text referencing the events were off raving mad lunatics who still remember
hidden ermine
The problem I see there is that people liked the planes as they were, and consequences could get in the way of marketability
golden plover
Yeah that's a definite issue
golden plover
But if that's the case, why not set SoI on some nowhere plane no one cared about instead
clever sun
The travails as they call them in Innistrad, was probably just another tuesday for them
But we need to see the results because we don't see that every other tuesday
golden plover
Like you're free to destroy Rabiah because no one is gonna go "oh damn, I really liked Rabiah"
hidden ermine
Again, as much as its a tired comparison, magic so far has been kinda comic-book-y in that regard
There is a status quo that isnt changed
copper pecan
god i hope they destroy mercadia
hidden ermine
Because people like the status quo
copper pecan
fuck mercadia, all my homies hate mercadia
golden plover
Magic has definitely gotten way too mcu with it's storytelling, yeah
And yeah, if they destroyed like Mercadia or whatever, there would at least feel like stakes
Hell, I still want an archeology themed set that's Amonkhet post-Bolas
But from the bit we saw when they introduced Basri, it seems kinda exactly the same
clever sun
Again, as much as its a tired comparison, magic so far has been kinda comic-book...
Yeah but that is where Magic can succeed where Comics cannot
Once they change too much in comics
They do a big reset
golden plover
Multiverse threats are kinda forcing magic in that direction too tho
golden plover
Like there's no way MOM doesn't end with some form of fuckery because they're not about to kill off all the compleated walkers
clever sun
I think they will
And they will remain dead
Or those that survive still phyrexianized
golden plover
They're either gonna do time travel to fix it, undo it, or just leave them evil. And all three sorta feel like a cop out
hidden ermine
Idk tbh
clever sun
How would leaving them evil feel like a cop out?
hidden ermine
They off-screened Tibalt after making him a big deal in Kaldheim
I doubt that will stick
clever sun
It wasn't off-screen
golden plover
Leaving them evil is the best solution, but the evil walkers aren't the same characters
clever sun
They actually had a card with his death and a story moment about it
golden plover
They're a person with the same name and same power set
hidden ermine
Off-screened in the sense that he didnt get his own card
golden plover
Phyrexian Ajani is entirely different from regular Ajani
clever sun
Yeah somewhat
He is still very big on unity
But not about the kind of unity he was before
hidden ermine
Tbh Tyvars stand isnt clear that Tybalt dies there, and the story isnt read by most
After the backlash killing Dack Fayden got
I dont see them making it stick
golden plover
In the story it's just "Tyvar threw him off the fucking bridge" and that's is
clever sun
Story not being read by most is not a real argument though
clever sun
We also know Tamiyo is dead for sure besides her AI voice being around
But that isn't her and it can't planeswalk
Lukka Lukka'd all over Ikoria and is 100% dead
hidden ermine
They dont want people to get angry when a character they liked gets unceremoniously killed without getting a last card
clever sun
In the most recent chapter ||pretty sure Chandra completely killed Nissa||
hidden ermine
Lukka I can see staying dead because someone at wizards hates him
twilit canyon
not just lukka
i hate nissa too
fuck nissa
i hope chandra's big blast kills her off
golden plover
I think they're just gonna make Wrenn the new Nissa
twilit canyon
i hope nahiri and jace are killed off completely too
hope so
wrenn is infinitely cooler than nissa
golden plover
Wrenn is one of the few unique walkers who actually feels cool, yeah
Tbh, I'm still hoping Nahiri is playing Norn
twilit canyon
the newer walkers all feel much cooler than gatewatch members with a few exception
kaya?
golden plover
Because they were building up to Nahiri being immune because of her magic, and then just forgot?
copper pecan
nissa was so frusterating during zendikar rising's story
twilit canyon
kaito? much more cool than jace
golden plover
Also, Nahiri could use some time doing cool shit, she deserves it
copper pecan
like i just could not bring myself to care about that plot at all because neither side of the conflict was even remotely likable
twilit canyon
Also, Nahiri could use some time doing cool shit, she deserves it
she almost genocided an entire plane
she doesnt deserve shit
golden plover
she almost genocided an entire plane
For a good, albeit petty reason
sleek ferry
For his big reveal
twilit canyon
she was just mad at sorin
copper pecan
what do you mean a "good reason"
twilit canyon
there was no good reason
copper pecan
she killed tons of innocent people
golden plover
She came to Sorin and went "hey we could totally stop the Eldrazi for a couple hundred years if you help me"
And he went "fuck you, I'm playing with my angel daughter"
So after Emrakul destroyed most of her plane, she realized they were gonna have to send Emrakul somewhere
twilit canyon
attempts to genocide an entire plane
golden plover
I guess it's not a good reason, but she did it because Sorin screwed her over and let it happen
It's really his fault
twilit canyon
she enabled it
copper pecan
"your honor i didn't kill those people, the bus that i drove into them killed them"
hidden ermine
But yeah I expect most of the "deaths" will be fine
golden plover
Emrakul was gonna destroy something
copper pecan
she could have just sent emrakul to somewhere uninhabited instead of a place she knew had people in it
hidden ermine
Jace Im 50/50 on
golden plover
She just targeted his plane in response
hidden ermine
Actually no, not 50/50
hidden ermine
We still havent had Jaces plane
twilit canyon
hes lame as fuck
hidden ermine
Theyre not killing him
twilit canyon
give us another walker from vryn
hidden ermine
I agree, Jace sucks
twilit canyon
hes already somewhat dead
hidden ermine
But I dont think theyll kill him
twilit canyon
nah they should for sure
if not
leave him phyrexianized
vraska
the case for vraska
she is the only semi-innocent one
she still doesnt deserve to be brought back
copper pecan
twilit canyon
had a monstrous 5 win draft with a rg werewolf deck
splashing nahiri and tamiyo
this draft was hard carried by having 3 moonlight hunts in my deck with a wolf/werewolf density so heavy it could have been called a furcon
clever sun
Glad Arena has converted you into a drafter
Finally you can embrace one of the best ways to play Magic
trail anvil
furries op
I feel like this set was meant a lot more for constructed explorer archetypes than historic brawl or anything
twilit canyon
this deck actually got a lot better with mayor and selfless spirit
spirits in historic now have 2-3 builds?
kinda nuts
gonna be touching up on them soon
also gonna be testing this
not sure how i will like it though considering non-lurrus jund is very very strong
twilit canyon
my favorite part of this deck was when hammer went "its hammering time" and hammered all over them
twilit canyon
choich
rigid scarab
I do think Modern is, over time, cheaper than Yugioh
Isn't 80% of it just straight up dependent on the deck?
fallow citrus
could you not just say this about yugioh as well
rigid scarab
Yeah you could
Yeah sure Modern is cheap if you only see yourself playing 1 deck
For years
And Yugioh is very expensive if you see yourself buying a brand new deck with staples every few months
It's why I recommend players to be very careful with their deck selection
And prioritise longevity
fallow citrus
I don't really see the point of bringing it up
modern is just cheaper because decks last longer and often tines have very few new additions worth adding
yugioh would probably be similar if banlists worked the same in it too
rigid scarab
I don't really see the point of bringing it up
Because I don't think Modern vs Yugioh is a one-note comparison
Modern decks themselves are more expensive but last longer
Yugioh decks are cheaper but last less time
And both formats have interchangeable staples depending on the deck type
fallow citrus
In the context of "over time" magic is cheaper, it still doesn't change much
rigid scarab
Over the course of years, sure
But "Modern is cheaper" doesn't give the full picture
With other formats its easy to state the price
High level Vintage is going to be more expensive than high level Yugioh
High level Pauper is going to be cheaper than high level Yugioh
Those are simple
fallow citrus
Yeah but the point I'm making is you replied to a comment that said "over time"
rigid scarab
Fair, but even then I say that its probably player dependent on which is more expensive
If it's just 1 deck, then Modern is probably cheaper long-term
fallow citrus
Fair, but even then I say that its probably player dependent on which is more ex...
Yeah I don't think anybody is going to disagree with that, it's just common sense
atomic harness
Tell them aeri
zinc shard
rigid scarab
Tell them aeri
Father why
fallow citrus
without any additional comments this is funny
clever sun
Isn't 80% of it just straight up dependent on the deck?
Yes but it is much easier to be a deck specialist in Modern
glad peak
without any additional comments this is funny
I mean, without context he is correct
In context and within some metas, it’s debatable
dense berry
as a player of both games I think that yugioh is actually a lot cheaper than modern
the "landbases are forever" thing got brought up but thats just as true if not more true of yugioh's hand traps and staples
i would definitely say standard is cheaper than yugioh but then playing standard in paper these days just doesnt happen
i especially wouldnt gamble on deck longevity being a selling point in modern anymore after mh2 introduced players to an artificial rotation cycle
lusty trench
Yu-Gi-Oh staples and MTG modern land bases are incomparable
It is extremely rare that a land base gets power crept in MTG
In Yu-Gi-Oh, staples change around quite a bit, especially within a 5-10 year period
Like I'm not going up to a tournament with exciton knight and duality in my deck
dense berry
landbases are also like 5-10x as expensive as staple packages
lusty trench
Honestly depends on the staple and how early you buy into the staples for yugioh
dense berry
and dont go into every deck the same way
like whats that fancy grixis landbase gonna mean when youre trying to build some selesnya deck or whatever
lusty trench
like whats that fancy grixis landbase gonna mean when youre trying to build some...
The fact you can trade that grixis land base and make a selesnya land base instead
dense berry
when we start getting into trading lines get really blurry
locally there seems to be a growing stigma in the mtg scene about trading cards
everyone just buys exactly what they need
there is like three people left with binders
i assume it has something to do with how many premium versions of everything there are
lusty trench
For my local scene the only reason people don't bring in binders super often is there's a card thief
dense berry
everyone just wants to order the exact thing rather than buy product and get a version of the card that costed the same or more and is less nice
dense berry
For my local scene the only reason people don't bring in binders super often is ...
bro catch him
do not let this situation continue
lusty trench
This is an issue for the staff to deal with, not me, it just means I don't bring in what I don't need that day, and keep an eye on it all
twilit canyon
how in-character
dense berry
its in your interest
twilit canyon
dense berry
my lgs is to the point i can leave 4 digits worth of stuff unattended and i can be sure nothing is gone when i come back
we had thieves but we caught them
the lgs can only do so much, what with cameras and banning offending players
but the actual community has to come together to root out that shit
lusty trench
It's more so my community is just jaded already, my local scene just isn't great
Like no one can be bothered to put in the effort to catch the guy because people barely show up as is unless there's a pre release or free commander night or something
dense berry
I would definitely find a different lgs
lusty trench
Other one is hostile to players who haven't been playing for 10+ years and smells awful
hidden ermine
Yes but it is much easier to be a deck specialist in Modern
Idk, there are people still having success on Striker 5 years later
I dont think any modern deck from 5 years ago is still viable
Since in that time we had both Modern Horizons
... burn I guess?
twilit canyon
burn
mill
affinity
scales
devoted druid
merfolk
amulet titan
tron
stoneblade
rakdos midrange now known as scam
evolved from jund midrange but its the same concept of deck
living end has gotten better
hidden ermine
Calling Affinity or Scales viable is kind of a stretch, theyre rogue at best
The comparison there would be less Striker and more, idk, BA
twilit canyon
almost every modern deck is viable
striker is also incredibly niche for a few years now
i cant think of a dead archetype in modern that wasnt already kind of shit anyhow
modern elves are still around too
hidden ermine
Striker has topped multiple YCS last year
twilit canyon
yea its still not meta
hidden ermine
I dont think Affinity has topped a top level event since 2018
Hardened Scales topped in 2019, then never again
... ah although
Wtf are top level events for modern nowadays anyway
twilit canyon
affinity had 2 tops in an open
hidden ermine
Since we dont get GPs anymore
twilit canyon
and got 12th in the latest challenge
hidden ermine
Opens are more like regionals than top level events arent they?
twilit canyon
scales won the last open