it has potential
#Magic the Gathering
trail anvil
I think alchemy helps offset those obscene equip costs, idk what else does rn
oh kemba ig
twilit canyon
[[hexgold sledge]] kinda does too in a sense
lost widgetBOT
Artifact — Equipment
For Mirrodin!
When Hexgold Sledge enters the battlefield, conjure a card named Goblin Gaveleer onto the battlefield.
Equipped creature gets +1/+0.
Equip 
twilit canyon
since it just gives you 2 guys for 1 card
trail anvil
yeah this was actually the card that I feared most in the mwm lmao
when I played vs that deck
trail anvil
true
btw I completely forgot lukka was in this set lol
he still kinda seems like he has potential
twilit canyon
lukka is...
weird
you would think with how good red is
gruul would be great
but it actually just holds back the deck
trail anvil
I'm still kinda on the yavimaya iconoclast/halana train
but in general I think you need more stuff like GRN/RNA gruul to truly let it shine, like domri did in his meta
trail anvil
you've got threats, finishers and early drops, but you're missing the value engine to keep pace with midrange
twilit canyon
nothing in gruul really pulls you into it
i think i know where equipment fall flat in actually now that i look at a list
trail anvil
iconoclast is lowkey the best gruul card, it's just sitting in a criminally undersupported type
twilit canyon
it lacks 1 drops
outfitter
battery
thats... it?
inchblade companion is solid i guess
sledge and cleaver can kind of help in the later parts of the game
trail anvil
is alchemy not also removal city rn
trail anvil
cause standard really is with black being so high up
that sounds like it doesn't help
twilit canyon
hence the pressure you feel with lacking fast starts
once you get to bladehold cleaver
you are good
trail anvil
especially considering all the edict effects that dodge protection
twilit canyon
once that card etbs and resolves
you will never lack bodies
equipment have that sort of inevitability
but until then, you are hoping to make do with the rest of the cards
trail anvil
unrelated but do you hate the equipment art as much as I do for this
twilit canyon
eh
twilit canyon
i kind of see what you mean?
twilit canyon
idk if there was a more elegant way to showcase hexgold?
it is quite literally like
golden mirrodon
*mirrodin
trail anvil
I think more stuff like [[kemba kha enduring]] 's weapon maybe
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Cat Cleric
Whenever Kemba, Kha Enduring or another Cat enters the battlefield under your control, attach up to one target Equipment you control to that creature.
Equipped creatures you control get +1/+1.
: Create a 2/2 white Cat creature token.
2/2
trail anvil
I'm more fine with the weapon when it has a little bit of the thing, this still looks like a decent halbard
twilit canyon
[[rebel salvo]]
lost widgetBOT
Instant
Affinity for Equipment (This spell costs less to cast for each Equipment you control.)
Rebel Salvo deals 5 damage to target creature or planeswalker. That permanent loses indestructible until end of turn.
"That Great Work of yours is looking pretty fragile, Urabrask!"
twilit canyon
i would have liked the staff there to be a thing
cus it looks clean
but i see wym yea
its all clunkier than it needs to
i get its evocative of mirrodins design
but it looks goofy on weapons
trail anvil
ye
twilit canyon
oh damn u know
i would have loved kemba when we had the afr equipment in standard
[[plate armor]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+3 and has ward . (Whenever equipped creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
Equip . This ability costs less to activate for each other Equipment you control.
twilit canyon
[[a-plate armor]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+3 and has ward . (Whenever equipped creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
Equip . This ability costs less to activate for each other Equipment you control.
twilit canyon
2 mana
kemba etb becomes a 6/6 with ward 1
maybe you have rabbit battery in play still and now shes a 7/7 with haste too
clever sun
Funny
trail anvil
I'd definitely have to see it in action cause I'm the actual polar opposite of an equipment player
clever sun
I was just brewing Alchemy equipment
trail anvil
tell us how nahiri goes 
clever sun
I think it's solid but I couldn't find what I was missing but I was missing something
Was backreading this convo though
clever sun
it lacks 1 drops
And yeah this is pretty much it
In Historic I can do Esper Sentinel, Outfitter, Rabbit
Twelve one drops is enough
trail anvil
oh esper sentinel would go hard as hell yeah
clever sun
But neither Alchemy nor Standard has a good enough one drop to make it matter
No yeah Sentinel is nuts with equipment
Big reason it holds a $30 price tag in paper is because of an equipment deck
twilit canyon
trail anvil
btw
clever sun
trail anvil
it's a damn shame we don't have [[annul]] in standard rn
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
it'd go hard as hell
trail anvil
but imagine maindecking it into kumano on the play
spell pierce does exist though ig lol
clever sun
That's what [[Minor Misstep]] is for 
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
but consider: countering bankbuster with 1 mana
clever sun
Spell Pierce?
trail anvil
but also consider: works lategame :^)
clever sun
I think Bankbuster is usually not worth a counter in most cases
twilit canyon
i mean that depends
trail anvil
the answer probably is just pierce though yeah
twilit canyon
sometimes u need to
clever sun
Yeah but you can just remove it
And also
Idk
I just don't feel it is a huge threat
trail anvil
bankbuster represents 3 cards but yeah I usually just let it sit
clever sun
I guess it can just be kind of a silent killer
trail anvil
idk why it doesn't feel super big
twilit canyon
yea
its just kinda silently doing its job
pulling u through midrange mid-games
carrying u thru control late games
card needs to be answered eventually
but tbf if ur in white, u can march it
if ur in red u have abrade
green can tear it
just blue and black are kinda boned
trail anvil
I haven't seen march in a while come to think of it
twilit canyon
until it becomes a creature
march is still good
i think mono-white midrange could use a few copies every once in a while
too many ppl are a bit high on ossification and lay down arms cus those are like
nearly perfect removal spells
but march is still got a strong niche
trail anvil
I'd rather have loran for that tbh
I get loran is dead in certain situations, but going tempo negative in this format sounds like a death sentence
clever sun
Loran is great yeah but March has the flexibility
I would run two copies
That said, I'm on Grixis all the way
It's been a while since I have had a satisfying Grixis list in Standard
trail anvil
I just can't think of what I'd realistically want to consume my entire turn for when I need to match my opp
maybe haughty djinn cause it's an instant speed removal? but even then I'd prefer fateful absence or something
clever sun
No need to be a turn cus you can pitch to reduce cost
It's either tempo loss or card advantage loss but
Mono-White actually can make up for it easily
trail anvil
monowhite can eat card advantage loss yeah that's fair
hard orchid
can i get sugestions for cuts from this deck?
https://scryfall.com/@thenobletheif/decks/6e2b7b96-bcf5-41ec-b331-66f10f69bf42
trail anvil
god not hitting planeswalkers in this meta feels rough though
hard orchid
for my deck? or is this a different conversation i stumbled into?
clever sun
Current Grixis list
Honestly with how Red has been, I am lowkey thinking about ditching Liliana and going three total Fleshgorgers
But I do feel the pressure against 5c Atraxa
Any reanimator Atraxa list though? Farmed
trail anvil
oh sorry I'm not very well versed in commander
clever sun
Corpse Appraiser does not consider your reanimating Atraxa ethical
trail anvil
@twilit canyon would know much better
hard orchid
oh sorry I'm not very well versed in commander
entirely fair. it's a wonky format
twilit canyon
i know my red cards well
but i have 0 idea about mono-white in commander that isnt cedh staples
clever sun
Honestly same for me at this point
fallow citrus
mana tithe obviously
hard orchid
i just need two cuts
clever sun
Only white cards I run are in my non-green Tymna Kraum Opus Thief list
twilit canyon
just 2 cuts?
hard orchid
if you look at my pile and say "huh this is questionable" that is still useful data to me
just the two
twilit canyon
cut the 2 worst most expensive spells
hard orchid
you'd think that would be the easy part ^^;
twilit canyon
archon of coronation
fallow citrus
if this is a creature deck would you not play like uh
hard orchid
interesting choice
fallow citrus
ranger captain, recruiter
hard orchid
i'm thinking i'll cut search party captain
twilit canyon
captain is indeed kinda mid
but it can be a 1 mana kind of mid that means its fine
angel of ruins feels almost impossible to cast too
hard orchid
i've got wall of omens and enchantment dog
twilit canyon
but plainscycling is ok
approach the 2nd sun is the other cut
oh actually
elspeth conquers death
is a cut too
hard orchid
approach is like...not the back bone of the deck, but it's the card i most want to play.
angel of the ruins is kinda bad, but i don't have good artifact/enchantment removal with my price cap.
elspeth conquers death is meant as removal, and also potentially looping [[restoration specialist]]
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Dwarf Artificer
, Sacrifice Restoration Specialist: Return up to one target artifact card and up to one target enchantment card from your graveyard to your hand.
Dwarves' tools are priceless heirlooms handed down through generations.
2/1
hard orchid
angel of the ruins is probably correct tho
clever sun
I'm sure there is plenty of mono-white enchantment/artifact removal on a budget
[[Disenchant]]
lost widgetBOT
hard orchid
disenchant sucks
clever sun
[[Fragmentize]]
lost widgetBOT
hard orchid
also sucks
hard orchid
it's a lot more mid than [[cathar comando]]
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Human Soldier
Flash
, Sacrifice Cathar Commando: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
"Honorable tactics are for honorable foes. These werewolves are preying on innocent travelers. I'll stab them in the back while they sleep if I have to."
3/1
clever sun
But they do not need to be
hard orchid
which actually is a creature
clever sun
Cathar Commando is actually a downgrade to both
fallow citrus
what about loran then
clever sun
[[$Loran of the Third Path]]
lost widgetBOT
hard orchid
loran is like 6$ fml
clever sun
Yeah seems the list is all below a $
hard orchid
i would play the hell out of her if i could
clever sun
Penny dreadful EDH
I challenged myself before to do Penny Dreadful cEDH and its interesting
fallow citrus
oh sure didn't see that
clever sun
But for casual it is way more flexibile
hard orchid
my other choices are [[kor sanctifiers]]: oof
and [[space marine devastator]]: less oof
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Kor Cleric
Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
When Kor Sanctifiers enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target artifact or enchantment.
"Why keep such trinkets? They only add weight to your travels."
2/3
Creature — Astartes Warrior
Squad 
(As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may pay any number of times. When this creature enters the battlefield, create that many tokens that are copies of it.)
Grav-cannon — When Space Marine Devastator enters the battlefield, destroy up to one target artifact or enchantment.
3/3
clever sun
I would say for sure do not overlook cheap enchantment removal
Cathar Commando is solid but Disenchant and Fragmentize are fantastic cards that see a ton of play
hard orchid
i'd rather have cheap artifact removal, sadly dawnbringer cleric only hits enchantments
to combo with [[liquimetal torque]]. that's why i was playing the ruins angel
lost widgetBOT
Artifact
: Add 
.
: Target nonland permanent becomes an artifact in addition to its other types until end of turn.
"Weaponized jewelry has a long and respected history." —Ervos Trax
twilit canyon
i back her up w the recommendations on fragmentize and disenchant if u need cheap enchantment/artifact removal
they are actually surprisingly good cards
u just cant beat unconditional and nearly unconditional removal
hard orchid
well i'm hoping to mostly stick to games at a (generally) lower power level
but i'm also having trouble believing that a one for one removal card like that is worth it
i do also technically have [[unexpectedly absent]] which can be 2-ish mana
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
Blowing up an important card at a key moment can save a game for yourself
Winning in EDH is often done by pushing your personal advantage when given an opportunity
This is regardless of power level
hard orchid
[nod]
trail anvil
btw was meaning to ask, is big score/galvanic iteration a more recent development to answer monowhite?
and other midrange in the format
also what are your thoughts on life of toshiro umezawa, misty and I were discussing it earlier cause it solos matchups like soldiers and esper creatures (really anything using 1/1s with thalia)
fallow citrus
[[galvanic iteration]]
lost widgetBOT
Instant
When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
Flashback 
(You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)
Better potent than predictable.
fallow citrus
interesting
zinc shard
clever sun
btw was meaning to ask, is big score/galvanic iteration a more recent developmen...
More or less
It allows us to really put a game away
by going over the top of other decks
Also
@twilit canyon Skrelv
Equipment
twilit canyon
clever sun
This build I'm thinking of is gonna mean Kemba herself is a bit weaker
but I had to make cuts on cards
This is a good sign
twilit canyon
🤨
cuts?
on an equipment deck outside of modern?
do we have the playables with skrelv?
twilit canyon
testing
twilit canyon
i just punched through an obliterator and a shakedown heavy for lethal
this deck is fucking good
u know tho
its unfortunate
that this deck still loses to mono-red in alchemy
twilit canyon
that was an incredibly short final leg to mythic
this deck actually fucks
outfitter -> dealer -> hammer in historic has to be a thing though
twilit canyon
final climb
i made no upgrades or changes to the deck
red feels awful
not unbeatable
but pretty awful
still this deck smashed
clever sun
atomic harness
trail anvil
<@480437470870110209> Skrelv
that's actually such a good idea I'm amazed it wasn't brought up before
invest a lot into one creature, might as well throw some quasi-protection and unblockability on that creeature 
trail anvil
phyrexian mana makes it so much nicer than alseid was in its standard too, in exchange for not working on the turn it's cast
twilit canyon
also yea it popped
trail anvil
yeah lmao the moment you brought up a lack of one drops it should've popped up
atomic harness
Skrelv is the goat
trail anvil
being a powerhouse in this standard
atomic harness
sweepers arent too common yeah
twilit canyon
had some dude spam gg and oops when they cheated in atraxa only for them to realize they died to skrelv tap anyways
farmed
trail anvil
I can't believe 90% of the rares I crafted day 1 were useless again too 
trail anvil
had some dude spam gg and oops when they cheated in atraxa only for them to real...
kek motherfuckin w
twilit canyon
and yea i think sweepers suck rn in both standard and alchemy
atomic harness
goat
twilit canyon
tap call black swing my gaveeler for 10 billion damage
trail anvil
usually people tout answering threats one by one and simply trying to get a tempo advantage over sweepers unless it's farewll yeah
twilit canyon
this equipment deck is soft to sweepers until you get cleaver in which case they are an active detriment
but then so is spot removal
and skrelv makes it hard vs it too
trail anvil
the only sweeper I've seen constantly is temporary lockdown
or "sweeper" ig
mass o-ring
twilit canyon
and the most notable thing i found is that siding in nahiri makes it super embarrassing to be mono removal/sweeper
she can still randomly create lethal late
lockdown runs into a big issue in that enchantment removal is so common
bc of sagas
alchemy can hit u with a super tough [[fragment reality]] too
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
is nahiri decent value in side? she still seems so weird to me as a card
twilit canyon
nahiri came in vs 5c and golgari midrange
5c was basically just a rakdos with vat to reanimate atraxa
but either way nahiri created lethal g2 solo by bringing back kemba, she grabbed hammer, i equipped warwhip and battery and she turned sideways for lethal doing the entire 20 damage
g3 was the funny skrelv gaveeler game
trail anvil
which one is vat again
lost widgetBOT
Artifact
Whenever another artifact or creature you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put an oil counter on Vat of Rebirth.
, , Remove four oil counters from Vat of Rebirth: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
trail anvil
shit this looks nuts with blood tokens and treasures
twilit canyon
yea
this is the basis of the janky atraxa lists in standard and alchemy
word of warning
it sucks
graveyard trespasser, corpse appraiser, hearse, march, emperor, tear asunder, kumano
there is a ton of random exile
rendering the reanimation useless or the death triggers
also props to nahiri vs golgari midrange in alchemy she won g3 there too by reviving a rabbit battery for haste on my guy and it was lethal too
trail anvil
best variant I've seen is the cruelty of gix version but idk it's seemed more like a weird hype train than anything
twilit canyon
it is at least more organic way to grab it and cast it after atraxa already etbs
trail anvil
I know at least cgb pushed two versions, idk how many other mtg youtubers did
twilit canyon
basically counts as another copy of her from her etb
crokeyz is in the 5c train
and so am i tbh
aggro > 5c >>>>> other midrange > some aggro >>> reanimator
every deck just has easy ways to ruin a reanimating play style
@clever sun i see where skrelv came to u i see
crokeyz brewed equipment in alchemy a few days ago huh
trail anvil
yeah that's why I've been sleeping hard on jund before tyvar
trail anvil
still kinda sleeping on it after tyvar, it's a decent deck but feels like the worst between it, grixis and esper
twilit canyon
its tough yea
grixis can go way higher than the others
esper has a consistency and quality to it
jund has synergy
but thats just tough at times vs different decks
trail anvil
grixis has a serious consistency to it with corpse appraiser and make disappear
it's just super well rounded
plus you can still get super damn good value out of fable copy
clever sun
<@970847564121395250> i see where skrelv came to u i see
Caught me red-handed lol
trail anvil
tyvar giving reflection and bloodtithe haste just ain't enough to justify green to me
clever sun
plus you can still get super damn good value out of fable copy
Yeah it has put Grixis to the top
trail anvil
also ironically scrapgorger kinda gatekeeps its own deck (and atraxa reanimator by extent)
clever sun
Frank Karsten still thinks that Grixis is the best deck for events
The consistency of Grixis is really hard to pass up
trail anvil
green just still kinda sucks as a color 
clever sun
Grixis has the best mana with two fast lands
Green has... Tyvar and Tear Asunder
Nothing else in Green is as quality as either card
trail anvil
tear asunder is just worse loran at this point
clever sun
It's different
trail anvil
when everything is about tempo you want something that does 2 things, while tear asunder is versatile it just takes so much mana and it's only a 1-for-1 answer
clever sun
Tear Asunder being an instant and being able to exile and can hit creatures and walkers too is a big card
It is hugely flexible
Loran is better for the curve out (usually)
But Tear Asunder is a near universal answer to any issue you may have
trail anvil
I just can't get behind spending 4 mana on that rn
clever sun
But obviously it just can't be the only draw to Green
Golgari actually
Cus Tyvar and Tear are both Golgari
So what else is in Green that is amazing?
[[Unleash the Inferno]]?
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
the other reason you're supposed to run it is scrapgorger but that isn't enough unless you're facing something super gy reliant
clever sun
In theory yes?
trail anvil
and you're just not beating grixis with that card unless they for some reason pivot back to tenacious underdog
unleash the inferno is a good card but ig just not good enough
clever sun
No real chance to play Underdog in Grixis
clever sun
unleash the inferno is a good card but ig just not good enough
Yeah kind of my point
trail anvil
I don't think it's a good choice at all with all the gy hate in the format
clever sun
Yep
trail anvil
even if there wasn't I just feel like there's better cards to be run in general
clever sun
Like the issue with Green right now is that there are no Green cards that pop out
Tyvar and Tear? Sure
If you go strictly Jund? Inferno
But that's three cards
Three reasons to be Green/Golgari/Jund
Versus Grixis
trail anvil
missing out on make disappear rn sounds like hyper neg
countering fable/wedding invitation is just the correct answer
clever sun
Appraiser, Make Disappear, Galvanic, Spell Pierce, Lier
Jace, Kaito, K4ito
Minor Misstep
Disdainful Stroke
Negate
clever sun
There is just no room for any of those walkers
But they are about as big of a draw to blue as Green has
trail anvil
I mean is it just me or is the esper creature pile kind of cope
clever sun
and they don't even make the cut
trail anvil
maybe I've just been facing/watching the wrong decks vs it but I feel like I never see this deck win
clever sun
I didn't think it would be as popular as it is
trail anvil
I forgot they had as many good cards pre-ONE as they did, misty was reminding me of that when I talked shit on the deck lol
twilit canyon
ngl esper creatures/legends isnt bad just as sol said
worse soldiers
esper does wanna use a creature density since it has actual great creatures to run
but too many and u just gotta consider changing decks
trail anvil
it has fantastic creatures, but I just know it has so few fuckin answers so it has to force its value through early or eat shit and get stabilized against
twilit canyon
i get it tho some ppl want to play raffine in soldiers
trail anvil
like the only interaction being ertai just feels so incredibly all-in to me
trail anvil
if I wanted to go all creatures then something unanswerable like harbin just seems 100% better to me
twilit canyon
u can be greedy when ur soldiers and u finish games in seconds or can lean back on counters
but only ertai as interaction?
trail anvil
yeah, especially as monowhite I just say "okay you literally run like 2 cards that can counter or even answer my shit, you're dying"
even post-side I'd be way more scared of traditional esper mid
clever sun
Play Phyrexian Indicator versus Esper Creatures
They can't beat it unless they have Ertai
trail anvil
honestly I could still probably just troll, play depopulate and farm rank lmao
clever sun
twilit canyon
ya
i mean shit
i do too
i think raffine is still top 3 creatures rn
1st being squee
2nd adeline
3rd raffine
trail anvil
I agree but I just wanna play it with wedding announcement and make disappear, not a cope creature pile
1st squee is a pretty strong endorsement
twilit canyon
some lists are p much just esper soldiers with harbins and all
trail anvil
I get the looting but at the same time I don't really get it
twilit canyon
raffine is just insane selection with wide boards
trail anvil
that's why I'm more into raffine with a more diverse deck, when you can choose stuff like invoke despair or make disappear I find a lot more value in it than "value creature #45"
rigid scarab
I was going about my day loving Gishath when I realised
The symbol on his chest looks eerily similar to the Phyrexian symbol
trail anvil
christ this was scary, they nearly pulled back the game with a timetwister into multiple power 9 cards
thank god all those mana rocks clogged up their golos rolls
zinc shard
30% off a card style for a card that's banned in every format? Wizards you shouldn't have
twilit canyon
this is ur chance to pick up oko card style before hes unbanned in historic
twilit canyon
twilit canyon
glad peak
All creatures each opponent controls*
twilit canyon
also it would sacrifice them
sacrifice all creatures each opponent controls and then each opponent creates an x/x colorless artifact creature construct token where x is the total power of all creatures sacrificed this way.
glad peak
Nib entering and killing itself to make a 5/5 is funny
But also ygo’s nib gets around destroy effects so utilizing a “each player sacrifices all of their creatures” sort of thing is more accurate
polar lake
wouldn't that still hit nib itself tho?
glad peak
You can always write all other creatures
polar lake
tru
glad peak
And each player who sacrifices things this way gets a rock
But that’s way too much text
trail anvil
nib should probably be like 7 mana at the very least, maybe even 9 cause it has the zero mana casting part
typically creatures with that strong an ability are overcosted to make up for it
atomic harness
Edh went well today, got to delay a bolas citadel and kill ppl w unga bunga constructs
@fallow citrus 
Almost went back to back but got foiled by a boardwipe when I didnt have a counter at the end, all good though
atomic harness
I got to super cockblock a ragavan thanks to an early [[soulless jailer]]
lost widgetBOT
atomic harness
He still got the treasures but couldnt actually do anything w the noncreatures, slowing him down by a bunch
atomic harness
uh oh
atomic harness
@clever sun could I make use of inventor's fair and retrofitter foundry by any chance? how good are they? 
Mana myrs were extremely good today, got t4 urza and snowballed w constructs hitting ppl for big damage
are there any other decent artifact creatures I could run that I dont have yet? maybe ones that are more valuey, utility, or also help accelerate the commander into construct beatdown gameplan
atomic harness
hows uhh this one [[ethersworn canonist]]
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
<@970847564121395250> could I make use of inventor's fair and retrofitter foundr...
Fair, most definitely.
Foundry depends on your external thopter generation.
clever sun
hows uhh this one [[ethersworn canonist]]
One of the best hatebears around and if you can leverage the downside (you can) then you can roll games
atomic harness
Yeahh I only cast like 1 non artifact spell per turn if any at all (sometimes a counterspell on their turn) so this looks epic
fallow citrus
ren about to fall down a dark hole now and start playing stuff like [[trinisphere]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact
As long as Trinisphere is untapped, each spell that would cost less than three mana to cast costs three mana to cast. (Additional mana in the cost may be paid with any color of mana or colorless mana. For example, a spell that would cost to cast costs to cast instead.)
clever sun
And hopefully, [[Winter Orb]] soon
lost widgetBOT
atomic harness
uhh maybe but I'm not sure yet. Right now I want esper sentinel the most
clever sun
Winter Orb is insane with Urza btw
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
[[Static Orb]] too
lost widgetBOT
atomic harness
I'll keep em in mind. I'm not sure if I'm using lord high correctly tbh, I usually hold him until I can go for the infinite unless theres no better play
atomic harness
ah so like if I'm confident enough and the infinite dream is far away, I shouldnt be afraid to just plop him down and start getting mad value right?
clever sun
Yep
Cus he will probably get you there or help you get there
Making all artifacts into Mox Sapphire is powerful
atomic harness
neat. For my thopter generation I dont think I have enough so maybe pass on retrofitter for now. I have like uhh foundry, sai, spy network, and shop
clever sun
Oh with Sai you can kind of justify it
Foundry makes them too
So with the two of them it should be enough
atomic harness
cool cool, so far uhh the biggest issue has been mostly boardwipes yeah. I've been able to stop them a bit better now thanks to the added counterspells but theres defo times where I dont have one and it's rough
Delay has been incredible, it turns out 3 upkeeps is a long ass time, so I would delay this board wipe or super dangerous spell, then I kill the person who casts it before suspend ends
clever sun
There are a few solutions
atomic harness
oo do tell
lost widgetBOT
atomic harness
clever sun
[[Vampiric Tutor]]
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
The versatility in tutors
They count as additional copies of important spells including interaction
atomic harness
hmm is it like mysti into veto since that's my strongest one?
clever sun
Yeah or say you have Blue Urza and Sai
Mystical Tutor (make a guy to make more mana), sacrifice for Sai to draw the card
Cast it, making more mana and being able to respond at instant speed
atomic harness
That sounds nice for sure, I have been looking into tutors since all my friends have been saying it's like the one thing I dont have
vamp is a bit pricey but I can go mystical and enlightened I think
atomic harness
dmr?
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
Seal is worse than Vampiric or Demonic but is more expensive than both
Reason being it is rare
[[$Vampiric Tutor]]
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
DMR, The List, Commander Legends, EMA
atomic harness
still kinda ouch yeah hm
clever sun
All way more common sets than PTK
atomic harness
Mystical I can defo get tho
clever sun
[[$Mystical Tutor]]
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
Yeah much much more reasonable
Some decent budget tutors include [[Muddle the Mixture]]
lost widgetBOT
Instant
Counter target instant or sorcery spell.
Transmute (, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with the same mana value as this card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle. Transmute only as a sorcery.)
atomic harness
I have uh, fabricate 
clever sun
[[Fabricate]]
lost widgetBOT
clever sun
Right
atomic harness
is esper sentinel worth the price? it's defo a good card and I do want one but hm
funnily enough today my stax friend dropped one and he couldnt get anything from me I just kept playing creatures
clever sun
is esper sentinel worth the price? it's defo a good card and I do want one but h...
It is
But I think he is only really worth it if you have it and Remora and Rhystic Studies
Or some other source of mana denial
atomic harness
I'm thinking about getting fish too yeah just havent found a seller yet
mind if I show you the list in a bit and see what changes you could make?
clever sun
Yeah sure
atomic harness
Pierce is cope for sure but I dont have a better counter rn
lands can use some work too
gonna sleep for now, will check tomorrow 
zinc shard
fyi you can use Moxfield to post your decklist so you dont gotta take it all apart
dense berry
is esper sentinel worth the price? it's defo a good card and I do want one but h...
esper sentinel is god tier
its white's remora and in some ways its better
copper pecan
wotc doesn't want you to know this but they make the phyrexian oil from phyrexian olives
atomic harness
does that mean phyrexian green is the strongest
dense berry
always has been why do you think vorinclex has a six pack
twilit canyon
i think its hilarious u kids talking shit about vorinclex. u wouldnt say this shit to him at the hunters maze, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest praetors. yall are pathetic lol
lusty trench
Man went on a vegeta sayian elite monologue about fucking MTG artwork
hidden ermine
i think he is malding about alchemy in Historic no?
lusty trench
Read like a combination of hating crossover cards, alchemy cards and un set cards to me
fallow citrus
i think he is malding about alchemy in Historic no?
mainly yes
twilit canyon
lmaooo
historic has non-alchemy digital-only cards in it too
i wonder if they know
trail anvil
ye it has since the start of arena afaik
golden plover
Aren't those the tutorial cards tho?
Outside of maybe 1 they're all wildly underpowered
(I'm not counting the jumpstart historic cards since they were basically the test for alchemy and they might as well be alchemy cards)
trail anvil
there is the one that was used in bo1 monowhite though
golden plover
Yeah that's the one I was thinking of
twilit canyon
there is arena exclusive cards yes but there is also pre-alchemy historic-only digital cards
like [[davriel's withering]]
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
And he theoretically could get printed into paper tomorrow if they felt like it
Yeah, I'd say those realistically count as "alchemy" cards
twilit canyon
its how we 1st saw digital-only designs
they are not
they never went through alchemy
golden plover
They didn't go into the alchemy format, but they were the test run
golden plover
Yeah but when people talk about alchemy cards, they'd include them
Because they're the same kinda thing
twilit canyon
but they are not alchemy cards
itd be incorrect to call them alchemy cards from the get-go and historic was always meant to have been a digital-only format
sure it wasnt for a time
but that is why they added explorer
copper pecan
people still malding over alchemy is so weird to me
like
explorer exists now
if you want to play a non-rotating format without digital-only cards just play explorer
but some people seem to be super upset about the idea of cards being made for a format they don't play and i don't understand it at all
i don't play commander but you don't see me complaining about cards being made for that
dense berry
Man went on a vegeta sayian elite monologue about fucking MTG artwork
to be fair a lot of modern mtg art is pretty corporate and cold
they do still have a lot of great stuff being printed still though its just not as consistent as it used to be 10 years ago
but then i said the same thing 10 years ago
languid quest
oh totally
modern MtG art looks very samey
we need people like Richard-Kane Ferguson, Rebecca Guya and Ron Spencer to make art for it again
dense berry
yeah i dont wanna be that guy who rags on digital art but they have really given me a distaste for it given how overused it is now
mtg artwork used to be paintings
dense berry
and good art doesnt need to come from traditional media of course
it does seem like the move to a more digital style has resulted in the sameyness and uninspired artworks that do seem to be cropping up more often these days
twilit canyon
weirder art pieces are often criticized and disliked by a wider player base
so wotc isnt incentivized to comissiom a wider variety of artists
dense berry
no they just sell those artist's works as premium alternate printings
i understand wotc is incentivized to consider the bell curve here but doing so makes the artwork more average as a whole
we got the best art when the target audience was a smaller demographic than "as many people we can get to consume as possible"
copper pecan
some of my favorite card arts have come out in the past few years
like the strixhaven art of adventurous impulse
twilit canyon
no they just sell those artist's works as premium alternate printings
well yea cus thats the only way they can guarantee it sells for the art itself otherwise ppl complain about different and unique art in the main set
copper pecan
also all will be one had some really fantastic art direction tbh
lusty trench
Me playing krark sakashima getting 6 copies of krark, a tavern scoundrel, and a harmonic prodigy
languid quest
even if art being so samey minor issue considering everything else that is going on with WotC and MtG it's still issue
one that we didn't use to have
trail anvil
some of my favorite card arts have come out in the past few years
same, mine is most of the god-eternal stuff in WAR
clever sun
God-Eternals are sick
lost widgetBOT
Artifact Creature — Human Soldier
Whenever an opponent casts their first noncreature spell each turn, draw a card unless that player pays 
, where X is Esper Sentinel's power.
The more Esper changes, the more he refuses to.
1/1
dapper jacinth
Yes more card draw please
twilit canyon
bro went back to a near month old comment
fallow citrus
I don't get how esper sentinel is related tbh
lusty trench
I think they're talking about the previous discussion on esper sentinel
languid quest
MtG has very much become western Weiss and I still don't know how to feel about it
lusty trench
I'm fine with it tbh, it literally doesn't affect me and they're still using their own lore
languid quest
every major western IP is becoming part of it
lusty trench
We've got lord of the rings, Fortnite, dnd (but that was already in magic lore so whatever), street fighter, walking dead, stranger things... What else
Warhammer 40k
golden plover
Transformers
lusty trench
Ah right
languid quest
it's only matter of time until G.I. Joe, Star Wars, Star Trek, Power Ranger, Marvel and Masters of the Universe will be among those
golden plover
Oh and Dr Who
hidden ermine
It'd be only western Weiss if everything got entire card sets
Like the most Fortnite got was a secret lair wasnt it?
golden plover
And Assassin's Creed
lusty trench
It'd be only western Weiss if everything got entire card sets
Lord of the rings and DND did this
Hell DND did it twice
Also I'd 100% buy a power rangers set
golden plover
Oh and FF7R
languid quest
FF7R is in FFTCG
hidden ermine
Lord of the rings and DND did this
Yeah but DnD is basically MTG-esque already and LotR is one of the fantasy progenitors
Theyre still trying to stay in the same fantasy space so far
Gimme Skeletor tho
lusty trench
FF7R is in FFTCG
We're also getting it in MTG tho
hidden ermine
(Minus WH40k actually, admitively)
golden plover
Of course they picked the worst modern FF game
lusty trench
~~Of course they picked the worst modern FF game~~
What do you consider modern
golden plover
I dunno, I just really dislike FF7R
languid quest
40k is such a odd mix of different things
golden plover
Theyre still trying to stay in the same fantasy space so far
I dunno about street fighter, walking dead, or stranger things really being fantasy space
languid quest
Transformers is also something that IMO doesn't fit MtG
hidden ermine
I dunno about street fighter, walking dead, or stranger things really being fant...
Those arent full sets
Thats my point
lusty trench
Transformers is also something that IMO doesn't fit MtG
But it has two factions fighting so it's clearly the same as brothers war
golden plover
Optimus calls all them his "brothers" of course we can shoe-horn it into BRO
lusty trench
I loved when Optimus grabbed the mightstone and weakstone and went "this is totally a brothers war" and then nuked dominaria
golden plover
Not as good as when Norn went "This sure is Step and Compleat" and Dominara United all over those guys
lusty trench
Right before Xander hit the ground, he remembered the last words ob nixilis said to him. "This certainly is a new capenna"
golden plover
We joke but the literal ending for the ONE story was Norn going "All will be one" and then started the invasion
Like that's actually the quality of the lore at this point
languid quest
they are not really trying anymore with lore
glad peak
Building another anti casual edh principles deck with akroma jeska stax with going for possibility storm lock or just hatebears or murderbird plan, what are some cards to look out for?
atomic harness
some of my favorite card arts have come out in the past few years
thought monitor for me
twilit canyon
Building another anti casual edh principles deck with akroma jeska stax with goi...
drannith magistrate?
glad peak
Aside from the common stax pieces, is there anything spicy?
atomic harness
I can pump his power right to draw a million
glad peak
There’s humility which is actually just inevitable with jeska and enough 1/1s
golden plover
[[Overwhelming Splendor]] is fun if you can cheat it out
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
Just completely shut a player out of the game
atomic harness
oh nice, bronze has been weirdly good for me because of the ward to everyone but I can see him being cut
atomic harness
<:EZ:873056992019759124>
what else do you think I could add? Ethersworn canonist came to mind, maybe one more counterspell?
what about gingerbrute for funny kills with cranial or nettle?
also 32 lands okay? 
atomic harness
copper pecan
so why are people saying one has a bad limited format
i tried playing it earlier and thought it was fine
very aggressive but not like
super unbalanced or anything
the only real issue i had with it was that [[white sun's twilight]] is really hard to come back from but that's not like a super huge deal or anything
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
@twilit canyon you were playing march of swirling mist in monoblue right?
this deck is the funnest monoblue has been in a while
this card with flow of knowledge feels so huge
twilit canyon
sheeesh
glad peak
One went from being bomb heavy, which people hated, to being super aggro, which I don’t think people stuck around to see
last glen
this is some carbs-on-the-food-pyramid thinking
atomic harness
oh can you elaborate skip
last glen
tbh it was a shit analogy
If you remember the food pyramid
They put carbs at the bottom, implying you should eat a lot of carbs
It was propaganda to get people to eat more carbs (which are cheap)
and less of everything else (which is expensive)
so they could save things like meat for soldiers (this was during WW2 memory serve me right)
in seriousness
the truth about trying to avoid drawing aggro
feels like it shouldn't make you want to play worse cards
atomic harness
Yeah I dont wanna dilute my card quality just so I can be less of a threat
most of the time I'm the default threat anyway 
twilit canyon
this is omegalevel cope
glad peak
It’s cope but it is slightly true in some capacity
In that people will try to focus you down if your card is thought too good, but that doesn’t mean don’t run them
modern minnow
I'd never kneecap my card quality to potentially win table politics it sounds very sketch
atomic harness
All my cards are at least decent
twilit canyon
atomic harness
twilit canyon
expressive iteration continues making its way through banlists
trail anvil
would you say those were the correct hits
atomic harness
EI is ridiculous
twilit canyon
initiative is strong and should be fine now with white plume hit
white plume enabled it way too easily
it was like they missed the memo with monarch for some reason
in any case expressive iteration is never a real problem card
but the value of it comes from it digging to the problem cards
legacy delver will get everything banned before the actual issues (daze and fow)
arguably wasteland too
honestly think with legacy is that they shouldnt be banning things much in the for at all
lusty trench
From what I understand of legacy initiative it was white plume that majorly was the issue with I think seasoned adventurer being another strong initiative gainer? I don't remember too much tbh but sounds like good hits
glad peak
I’m surprised they banned ei in legacy even with delver being good
golden plover
I've heard that some of the legacy initiative decks are experimenting with Naya and Orzhov to still get it working reliably
So hopefully killing Adventurer does it
I don't think you can afford to drop white in initiative from what I've seen, so if you're losing the good white initiative enablers, it should weaken the mechanic
twilit canyon
it just shouldnt start on t1
or more inconsistently on t1
legacy has ways to drop t1 4 drops
but t1 3 drops are not an inconsistent thing so white plume had to go
golden plover
Yeah, none of the other adventurers or anything that really starts initiative is a 3 drop
Yeah I just checked and everything that can start it now is 4+
So it should be a big dent to the deck
twilit canyon
its like monarch
golden plover
Definitely. It's 100% a mechanic that doesn't play well with 1v1
Because getting a card's worth of value simply for existing every turn snowballs fast
twilit canyon
but monarch had the foresight to be put at 4 mana baseline
playable monarch cards at least
golden plover
Yeah that's the biggest surprise tbh. That they tried initiative at 3 mana on some of the cards
Feels a lot like a testing oversight
twilit canyon
believe they assumed initiative wasnt gonna be good enough elsewhere
golden plover
Probably, but they should have known free value for just existing is good enough, even when the value isn't crazy
lusty trench
My genuine reaction to actually reading the undercity
Bruh wtf is the left hand path
fallow citrus
the answer is really good
atomic harness
why is the right one so garbo lmaooo
hidden ermine
I assume flavour
last glen
All the strong ones are on the left
It probably wouldn't be so bad if the rooms were shuffled
hidden ermine
The goad one feels super weird to me tho
fallow citrus
all they had to do was just
swap a room
it would still be really good but slightly less so
hidden ermine
Like goad is such a weak effect
golden plover
Yeah there's no reason to ever pick goad
Like I guess I can see you wanting a treasure or a body, but you almost always go left
twilit canyon
treasure and body can help but its situational
golden plover
Yeah they're less likely to take over "killing them faster", "burning through 1/4th of their life", and "draw a card"
Well I guess 1/8th in commander, but initiative isn't the issue there
lusty trench
It's more like 1/24th in commander
golden plover
In 1v1s, burning them for 1/4th is huge
languid quest
burn isn't really viable in EDH, like at all
golden plover
Played around with the deck in pauper a bit when it was legal. Initiative is gross as hell in 1v1
golden plover
burn isn't really viable in EDH, like at all
The issue with that is that it'd take an insane amount of damage for burn cards to be good in edh
languid quest
indeed
golden plover
And they'd never print a 1 mana burn 5 because it'd go into other formats too
glad peak
Honestly they should in the legacy only sets
languid quest
that's true
glad peak
Burn needs more help in legacy
golden plover
There's also the concern that they seem to think people think burn is uninteractive and they don't really encourage it anymore
Like they give standard the bare minimum of burn cards, but they've got this weird idea that people dislike playing against burn
glad peak
I’ve always found it funny people don’t think burn is interactive but land should never be interacted with, therefore making lands incredibly uninteractive but coveted
golden plover
Yeah they've got weird ideas about what can and can't be interacted with
languid quest
it does seem like assumption from they part
glad peak
Can’t wait for the day where every creature comes stapled with hexproof
golden plover
Although I think all card games are like that? Runeterra is weird about counterspells. There's all of 3, in 2 regions
Card games are weird about interaction
Hell hearthstone has none
languid quest
which is odd IMO since WoW TCG (HSs paper predecessor) had some counterspells
glad peak
Hearthstone’s creatures being able to attack each other IS the interaction
languid quest
including one named Counterspell
glad peak
But yeah etb effects always going off was annoying
hidden ermine
Like they give standard the bare minimum of burn cards, but they've got this wei...
I mean, people do dislike playing vs burn
Anyway the thing with counterspells is ... there is a reason only MTG clones do full on counterspells anymore (and even then some dont, like Eternal)
languid quest
which is?
hidden ermine
Dont make for good gameplay and cause an immediate arms race with bigger creatures having to be that much more powerful
twilit canyon
or the counters themselves suck
languid quest
so like YGO and modern boss monsters in it then
hidden ermine
Like cheap removal has a similar effect
But cheap removal can be interacted with by multiple colours
The only way to interact with counterspells is counterspells
And only blue gets those
lusty trench
The only way to interact with counterspells is counterspells
Not true
You can copy your spells in response
hidden ermine
I dont think you can copy creature spells
lusty trench
Untrue!
sudden lava
double up on your simic commander
lusty trench
Or even triple up!
fallow citrus
8 cast painter climbin up some more
fallow citrus
new art?
twilit canyon
its existing art iirc for sorin
fallow citrus
ahh okay
golden plover
It's existing art for both
That's the double masters last hope art
Oh wait that's the original
twilit canyon
yep
copper pecan
i remember that art getting leaked like years in advance and people speculating what it was for
along with some art for karn and garruk that i still don't think they've used
and art for various other planeswalkers that were used
golden plover
The Tez and Garruk here haven't
Don't think we've seen this Ajani either
Or this Karn?
copper pecan
yeah that's the karn i was talking about
golden plover
So looks like 4 total
twilit canyon
the garruk, tezzeret, and karn are for sure never used
i think i saw that ajani used somewhere
dense berry
the garruk is the mtg duels promo
the tezzeret is elspeth vs tezzeret artwork of Tezzeret the Seeker
golden plover
So just the Ajani and Karn then?
copper pecan
i'm still like 10% convinced that they commissioned that karn art for the vryn set that got cancelled and replaced with new capenna
that huge arch in the background looks like it could be one of the mage rings
rigid scarab
What's the optimal lineup of MLP toys so you get the maximum value off of Rarity's second ability?
zinc shard
What's the optimal lineup of MLP toys so you get the maximum value off of Rarity...
well Rainnbow Dash gives you Red, Green, and Blue. surely there's a pony with white and black
rigid scarab
But like
What if you only want your creature to have protection from one color
Or two or three
fallow citrus
how come
twilit canyon
play patterns and deck variety
nothing is too oppressive
theres a large swath of playable decks i havent seen ever ngl
fallow citrus
Last one I saw was just one using ensoul artifact
twilit canyon
yea which one
theres like 2 different ensoul builds
azorius lurrus ensoul is gas
theres also a jeskai ensoul
twilit canyon
and technically a semi-auras type build
with sram and kor spirit daner
*dancer
there is also esper iirc
twilit canyon
yea lol
the thing at least
is that wildcards can carry u into a good archetype
and it will very likely remain viable for a long time
and honestly
theres no wrong choice
fallow citrus
how so?
copper pecan
https://www.tumblr.com/markrosewater/711115677014032384/so-as-i-was-reading-todays-nuts-bolts-column
"hey mark what if you made a set that was just fucking dogshit. like the absolute worst gimmick known to man"
glad peak
I wouldn’t be against this, I’d just force wr
glad peak
Yeah, r 1, g 2, b 3, w 4, u 5 makes more sense in terms of iconic cards
W 4 just because of the large amount of good cube 4 drops in white
sudden lava
lusty trench
copper pecan
bruh they're putting gristlebrand in historic
glad peak
Good
copper pecan
i really hope they ban it in historic brawl
copper pecan
because he's an unfun pile of card advantage
glad peak
I don’t see the problem with unfun commanders tbh
trail anvil
there's a lot of things that are an unfun pile of card advantage, we have at least 2 multicolor commanders like that
idk what griselbrand does in edh to warrant its ban but idk if historic brawl can match that cancer
also is go for the throat common in this weird build of esper creatures with harbin?
fallow citrus
do you get 40 or 20 life in historic brawl
trail anvil
25
fallow citrus
griselbrand is probably fine
twilit canyon
bruh they're putting gristlebrand in historic
griselbrand wont be the best reanimator target
i genuinely think atraxa has him beat every single time
copper pecan
oh right i forgot atraxa existed
kinda fucked up how we still haven't seen atraxa at her full potential yet
if there are any good battle cards she'll be significantly better than she is now
glad peak
Can’t wait for the plethora of “tarmogoyf op now” vids when battles are revealed
copper pecan
can't wait for awful battle designs on r/custommagic
fallow citrus
copper pecan
or some dumb shitpost that's like "tribal enchantment battle - lhurgoyf aura cartouche" with lhurgoyfcycling that gives the enchanted creature protection from kavu
granite badge
do we know what battles are yet
fallow citrus
nope
copper pecan
no
fallow citrus
no doubt they'll be revealed on a stream or smth
fallow citrus
snappy looks so good
trail anvil
the best art too
copper pecan
i'm really interested in seeing how emrakul looks in the ui
twilit canyon
historic continues to be sweet as fuck
im still thinking of more ways to discard or mill bombs though
the mardu list gets to run crucias which im jealous of
trail anvil
christ priest of fell rites with tyvar sounds like a bonkers combo
does priest being your only reanimator work out fine for this list?
twilit canyon
yes since the deck can function without her
ramp up to elesh norn is real
heres a mardu version
similar concept except its using [[bitter reunion]] to set both up
lost widgetBOT
Enchantment
When Bitter Reunion enters the battlefield, you may discard a card. If you do, draw two cards.
, Sacrifice Bitter Reunion: Creatures you control gain haste until end of turn.
The peace summit proved the grudge between Urza and Mishra could end only in blood.
copper pecan
[[priest of fell rites]]
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Human Warlock
, Pay 3 life, Sacrifice Priest of Fell Rites: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
Unearth (: Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step or if it would leave the battlefield. Unearth only as a sorcery.)
2/2
clever sun
SNAPPY
LET'S GO
Also yeah as much as it pains me to say it
Griselbrand is completely outdated as a reanimator target
clever sun
historic continues to be sweet as fuck
Fucking love Historic right now
dense berry
idk what griselbrand does in edh to warrant its ban but idk if historic brawl ca...
something something goryos vengeance draw 42 cards
but tbh half the edh banlist is a joke at this point
there are banned cards that are actively bad like panoptic mirror, coalition victory, biorhythm, recurring nightmare etc
cards that are good but arbitrarily banned because whats okay to combo off with has arbitrarily drawn lines in the sand for Sheldon Menery
such as primeval titan, prophet of kruphix, rofellos, emrakul, paradox engine, leovold, iona, fastbond or braids
sleek ferry
