I know someone's arguments on unbanning the Moxen, Lotus and A-Recall
#Magic the Gathering
rigid scarab
"Its just mana"
"Its just cards"
"Just rule 0 it"
"Also split EDH and cEDH banlists"
copper pecan
what do they think the point of a banlist is
like
the banlist is for balance
if you want to play with busted cards then rule 0 them
but most people don't want to play against something overpowered
glad peak
the banlist is for balance but also remember the banlist is sort of a joke
at least in commander
rigid scarab
Late to this but there's a big difference between Sol Ring and Crypt/Jeweled Lotus
Pretty much all of the time with Turn 1 Sol Ring
You just get the Sol Ring
With Crypt and Jewled Lotus
Getting to play with that colored mana turn 1
Or your 3/4 drop commander
Could just end the game immediately
golden plover
You're not playing at fast enough tables then
Sol Ring t1 is also usually accompanied by a signet or a talisman
It's not uncommon to see land, sol ring, colored rock, crypt/lotus into commander t1 if you open good enough
Sol Ring usually enables a big lead
Also you're forgetting about stuff like t1 ring into something like swiftfoot boots
Not as much immediate advantage, but you're up a decent bit
rigid scarab
You're not playing at fast enough tables then
High powered tables are used to fast starts though, regardless of Sol Ring
golden plover
Yeah but sol ring speeds up starts all around
rigid scarab
And I don't think the big thing people are saying to banning Sol Ring is that it makes high powered healthier
Turn 1 Sol Ring Signet Bauble is like
golden plover
It'd definitely do that tho
golden plover
If you're running enough rocks, it's not uncommon for the ring to play something like signet/talisman
rigid scarab
And again, a critical mass of rocks usually means your playing in a high powered table
Where players can and should be ready for those kinds of starts
And no one's going 'I should play more rocks because it goes well with Sol Ring'
They go 'I should play more rocks'
Period
And I dont think anyone is arguing for Mana Rocks to be banned in general
golden plover
The difference is that most rocks are a net negative on the turn you play them
And usually they're t2+ or they're crypt
Sol Ring is immediately a net positive that gets better every turn
rigid scarab
I assume you're not malding over the Turn 4-7 Sol Ring
And yes
I'm not denying they get a lead
But most of the time they get a very beatable lead
And those times where it wasn't are moreso outliers
Which you will get sometimes with a card with a 99% playrate
twilit canyon
fast mana is always stupid yea
but its a big thing that doesnt actually matter imo
cus its singleton
everyone has access to fast mana cus this format is proxy friendly
and theres 0 things stopping u from trying to maximize ur efficiency with turns
and if thats something ur not a fan of
rule 0 it
glad peak
This format is called commander, is it not? Let’s facilitate more turn 1 commanders 
Just run more cheap interaction
rigid scarab
I'm not saying players should play against Sol Ring by building their deck for it
They play against Sol Ring by pointing the stuff they make at the player
glad peak
And I’m saying not enough people are playing fast mana and should so they can get early commanders out
rigid scarab
And I’m saying not enough people are playing fast mana and should so they can ge...
They don't play fast mana because they dont want to
Should everyone be playing Gemstone Cavern, Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, Mox Amber and Chrome Mox?
Absolutely
Does everyone want to do that in the self-expression format?
I dont know about that
languid quest
to me beauty of casual EDH comes from being able to decks way I want without being told that my way of doing it is wrong one
if I wanted to be told what cards I should and shouldn't play I would play modern or some other competitive format
glad peak
I mean
You can do that in other formats, that’s where we get people like Yuta
Most people just aren’t anywhere near as good as him
hard orchid
not sure if this is the right channel, but i wanted to share this card design
last glen
Technically should cover passive abilities if you wanted to go all the way.
alternatively, I think Magic has language like "target creature loses all text" or "loses all abilities"
hard orchid
mtg does have "target creature loses all abilities" but i went with this wording specifically so that you could counter ETB abilities and/or activated abilities that are on the stack.
trail anvil
I mean we already have [[dress down]]
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
although ig this is a field-wide imperm
golden plover
Had to play with one of the regular guys and 2 casuals tonight
The whole table got pissed at [[Planar Chaos]] in the SLD deck
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
This card is so easy to deal with
golden plover
Oh to make it worse, I realized the guy who complained the most used a naturalize on a doubling season
He could have hit my chaos
glad peak
Tbf he was right to hit the doubling season
twilit canyon
not sure if this is the right channel, but i wanted to share this card design
this would be way too powerful
theres better ways to make it work
granite badge
I wonder how you would make the column negation work if at all
copper pecan
dexterity cards
golden plover
Tbf he was right to hit the doubling season
He was right to hit the doubling season, yeah
But planar chaos was more immediate and he shouldn't have been annoyed all game when he had the chance to kill it
golden plover
Pretty much, yeah
Always fun to get hate murdered for mediocre cards
I only had it out so I could draw off Zndrsplt
Every spell is either countered or I draw a card
hard orchid
this would make for a fun commander
mostly causes annoyance
sleek ferry
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51qg3SvYQIL._AC_SY580_.jpg
nice , you transformed it, now i play swords of plowshare?
sudden lava
nice , you transformed it, now i play swords of plowshare?
you cant swords of plowshare an enchantment
sudden lava
and even if it was a creature, would just return back to the command zone to be cast again
sleek ferry
there's like 101 1 mana enchantment removal
hard orchid
there's like 101 1 mana enchantment removal
no one plays them in commander. because (usually) creatures are a bigger threat.
also also: red has (almost) zero enchantment removal, and basically all their creature removal works by doing damage. so red has a very very bad matchup vs this.
and on top of that, if you remove it, and don't lower their hp, they can just replay this and it will flip again
sudden lava
plus they probably put down a creature or two so you have to remove it, get rid of their creatures, and knock them down to under 30 in 1 turn.
golden plover
There's way more creature removal than enchantment
And most of the time, people only run a bit of enchantment removal, because it usually does other things too
glad peak
Let’s be honest, most commander players won’t add any of either
golden plover
True
The best you can hope for is a naturalize or a farewell
But tbf, for the most part, it is creatures and artifacts that are the immediate issue
Enchantments are there, but they're usually gonna win the game unchecked
trail anvil
ik flood is a basic element of this game but I've drawn lands for 4 turns in a row send help
sorry 5
sleek ferry
Cut your land count
glad peak
Skill issue
hard orchid
ik flood is a basic element of this game but I've drawn lands for 4 turns in a r...
it is a basic element of the game. can't do anything about it any more than you can prevent bricking in yugioh
twilit canyon
Cut your land count
usually no
glad peak
If I cut my land count every time I got land flooded, I’d be playing belcher every time
Sometimes it’s an issue with your curve, sometimes with mulligan or in game decisions, sometimes variance
sleek ferry
It’s mono red, you’re only running like 20 lands anyways, idet mono red runs a 4 drop anymore since you had to make room for multiple abrades in the md as opposed to siding them and the 3 mana artifact wipe
trail anvil
are they not still on jaya
has the meta changed again from when I last viewed it
I've been on 22 cause I'm still crafting a lot
lusty trench
Ashnod my beloved
last glen
wait
real?
golden plover
Yeah
sudden lava
yep, been out for awhile
sudden lava
Land as a commander 
twilit canyon
4 mana land as commander 
golden plover
It should have at least had trample
fallow citrus
honestly
it could come in untapped and with haste and still be mid as long as it does the slumber counter thing
it's no [[burning tree emissary]] in terms of refunds
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Human Shaman
When Burning-Tree Emissary enters the battlefield, add 
.
Those who regard the Gruul as savage simpletons underestimate the subtle power of their shamans.
2/2
sudden lava
4 mana land as commander <:KEKW:622347587516628993>
just ramp into sea monsters, 5head
glad peak
Even then there’s a better commander
fallow citrus
pay 4 mana to put down [[simic growth chamber]]
lost widgetBOT
Land
Simic Growth Chamber enters the battlefield tapped.
When Simic Growth Chamber enters the battlefield, return a land you control to its owner's hand.
: Add 
.
golden plover
just ramp into sea monsters, 5head
Don't you wanna do [[Runo Stormkirk]] for them?
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
[[Runo]]
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
[[Runo Stromkirk]]
golden plover
It really couldn't find him off a 1 letter typo?
glad peak
There’s also [[kenethos]]
lost widgetBOT
glad peak
[[kenessos]]
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Merfolk Cleric
If you would scry a number of cards, scry that many cards plus one instead.
: Look at the top card of your library. If it's a Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus, or Serpent creature card, you may put it onto the battlefield. If you don't put the card onto the battlefield, you may put it on the bottom of your library.
1/3
glad peak
Kruthuss, so you can play the good win condition [[thassa’s oracle]]
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Merfolk Wizard
When Thassa's Oracle enters the battlefield, look at the top X cards of your library, where X is your devotion to blue. Put up to one of them on top of your library and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. If X is greater than or equal to the number of cards in your library, you win the game. (Each in the mana costs of permanents you control counts toward your devotion to blue.)
1/3
glad peak
Close enough to a sea monster
sudden lava
thassa's oracle 💙
I remember when Ladee used Thassa's oracle to win in game knights
golden plover
thassa's oracle 💙
fallow citrus
nothing wrong with enjoying an efficient win
golden plover
True, but it's a win that shouldn't be legal tbh
lusty trench
nothing wrong with enjoying an efficient win
Issue is it's absolutely everywhere because there are so many ways to abuse it super easily, so seeing it is just annoying, and I'm aware there are other cards that do this as well but that doesn't mitigate the fact I see it every other pod in every blue deck I see.
golden plover
Lab Man and Jace have to at least be on the board
They're much easier to interact with than Thoracle
lusty trench
It's also feeding into the whole combo Vs combat thing edh has especially with threat assessment
golden plover
Yeah true
But even then, there's not much of a window in the combo to stop Thoracle usually
rigid scarab
Man
Ever just play a nice game of EDH
And someone just suddenly plays Thoracle Consult
With no warning
That's a fulfilling end
twilit canyon
in casual???
rigid scarab
Majority of the table is casual but someone has a close friend at the table who only has High Opt Yuriko
sleek ferry
yeah thoracle is probably the last easy win con i would bring to a casual table
rigid scarab
It's mainly built to play against the other High Opt players who take up the majority of my LGS
sleek ferry
breach has like 20 different ways to end the game in casual
and at least it's funnier
twilit canyon
also way easier to stop in casual compared to consult
even casual players run some gy hate
broken fjord
Got some games in with Preston on the 31st. Won through like 3 rule of law effects and some other stax pieces. Very satisfying
glad peak
I would imagine you’d play stax pieces (other than torpor effects) in Preston because everything is a trigger or activation
broken fjord
Yup. I run Scroll of Fate because it lets me play through all my stax pieces, put creatures down for free, and then flicker them so they turn face up and get copied.
glad peak
Oh I thought you were saying you beat multiple stax pieces 
atomic harness
I am back here from the looks of it
@twilit canyon @fallow citrus @clever sun really good non cringe and non scrubby/loud friends roped me into casual EDH and we're starting out with precons and slowly upgrading
we looked around and I decided to pick up urza while my main buddy is getting mishra
atomic harness
I know right
but it's with really good people so I hope it's actually a nice time
atomic harness
@sleek ferry greetings
sleek ferry
Ey, hope you enjoy it. Edh with friends can be a blast
atomic harness
Yeah it should be a fun time. The precon he showed me seemed not butt too and I even recognize some of the stuff in it
I'm replacing a thing for my best friend [[vault skirge]] though
lost widgetBOT
Artifact Creature — Phyrexian Imp
(
can be paid with either 
or 2 life.)
Flying
Lifelink (Damage dealt by this creature also causes you to gain that much life.)
From the remnants of the dead, Geth forged a swarm to safeguard his throne.
1/1
atomic harness
sleek ferry
Nice. Haven’t looked too into the brothers war precons, but the fact that it’s 3 colors is already a win in my book
rigid scarab
This reminds me again that Urza has like 4 variations in one set
clever sun
<@480437470870110209> <@122453664466993155> <@970847564121395250> really good no...
EDH 
glad peak
I’m so sorry for your loss
sleek ferry
??/?
sleek ferry
I find it funny that we recently got [[vanquish the horde]]
lost widgetBOT
Sorcery
This spell costs 
less to cast for each creature on the battlefield.
Destroy all creatures.
Odric took no joy in violence but neither did he mourn for the twisted things he dispatched. All that mattered were the lives he had saved.
thorny vine
I have temporarily returned from the void with great news
We’re going to actually play MtG in my YGO locals tomorrow, courtesy of our city’s MtG scene that for some reason I didn’t know existed
And thankfully I can arrange time for it despite the shitshow I find myselves in rn
trail anvil
man merfolk is actually super good in historic artisan rn for those looking for a nice deck
merrow rejeray is an uncommon
trail anvil
yoooo this deck is cool
[[cleansing wildfire]] with indestructible lands to ramp, ensoul artifact to make an indestructible 5/5
lost widgetBOT
fallow citrus
oh yeah that deck's neat
clever sun
man merfolk is actually super good in historic artisan rn for those looking for ...
The deck is actually quite good on a budget
We are approaching a point too where we can slowly start building it like they do in Modern
We just need a few more creatures to consider
and get added to Historic of course
twilit canyon
if u like drafting yes
golden plover
Ixhel, Descendent of Atraxa - 1WBG
Legendary Creature - Phyrexian Angel
Flying, vigilance, toxic 2
Corrupted — At the beginning of your end step, each opponent who has three or more poison counters exiles the top card of his or her library face down. You may look at and play those cards as long as they remain exiled, and you may spend mana as if you were any color to cast those spells.
2/5
Neyali, Sun's Vanguard 2RW
Legendary Creature - Human Rebel
Attacking tokens you control have double strike.
Every time one or more tokens you control attack a player, exile the top card from your library. During any turn you have attacked with a token you can play that card.
3/3
sleek ferry
oh a free 3 cards isn't bad
hidden ermine
Each opponent, so if everyone has 3 poison counters, I guess?
golden plover
You still have to pay the mana cost
It can just be any color
She's only toxic 2, so I think by the time you've got her online and attacking twice, you're just better off outright killing them
glad peak
neyali attacking each player with a token is 3 cards too
golden plover
That's true
glad peak
both very very bad cards
golden plover
Unironically I feel like Neyali is the stronger card from the two
But neither feel good
I'd like Neyali a lot more at 3 mana
I dunno how you'd make Ixhel better, but I guess she's interesting enough
golden plover
Yeah, honestly replacing toxic with infect every time would be vastly better
But apparently people hate alt wincons and have complained enough we get dollar store infect from now on
lusty trench
Damn how can a descendent of atraxa be so boring
glad peak
just because she's 4c doesnt make her not boring
golden plover
Ixhel just does Gonti things, worse
Unironically if you wanna play Ixhel, just play Etali
It's the same card, but you actually don't have to pay for the spells
sleek ferry
4 and 5c commanders are automatically more fun via being 4-5c, but yes, atraxa is wack
lusty trench
Honestly no, I disagree, there are lots of ways she can be built, and she helps them out a lot, but it's just not optimal
sleek ferry
a fun 5c commander is codie
lusty trench
Which I give 0 shits about because this is a social game held together by money and duct tape
glad peak
she's 4c with almost no other relevant text on the card, that's boring
lusty trench
Sorry not in response to you dario
lusty trench
she's 4c with almost no other relevant text on the card, that's boring <:nyaruho...
End of turn proliferate makes her fun imo
golden plover
she's 4c with almost no other relevant text on the card, that's boring <:nyaruho...
"Proliferate"
And keyword soup I guess
lusty trench
Just cause there are less words doesn't make them boring
glad peak
the fact that she doesnt do anything other than budget proliferate makes her boring
golden plover
Shit like Kenrith and Najeela are really boring designs
Get rewarded for playing good cards and ignore color identity
lusty trench
Kenrith requires to be played in the haha funny way to be fun
glad peak
at least najeela's ramping amount of warriors is unique
golden plover
It's unique enough, but it's still boring
The shrine one and codie are okay, because theyre specific themes
Morophon is fine
lusty trench
Ur dragon... Exists
sleek ferry
re-animator kenrith is haha funny and viable
golden plover
Sisay is boring, but she's not the most uninteresting card
They at least tried to give her a theme
sleek ferry
3 color commanders/partners are usually peak gameplay in commander imo
golden plover
The sliver ones are fine
glad peak
dragons are a lot more boring than people try to give it credit for
golden plover
Jodah is kinda boring too, since he's just better Sisay
Yeah Dragons are a boring tribal
lusty trench
I play dragons, they're the most brain dead shit ever
golden plover
"oh I ramped into big guys"
lusty trench
But I like it
golden plover
They're just popular because everyone likes big dragons
sleek ferry
i mean if we're shitting on tribest
elves
are literally just
ramp into advantage into win
glad peak
elves at least are interesting because they add so much mana with their elves
golden plover
Yeah but at least elves are honest about it and every card is either a lord or ramp
lusty trench
All tribes are just elves, goblins or dragons with a different coat of paint
glad peak
every other tribe is just play out stuff and hope you can hit with big stuff
golden plover
Dragons are do nothing for 3 turns, then play a 3/3, then a 7/7
glad peak
imagine spending so many resources on a goldspan
lusty trench
imagine spending so many resources on a goldspan <:KEKW:622347587516628993>
It's unironically one of the better things dragons can play out early in their tribe
golden plover
Let's see for other 5c commanders:
Esika is boring, Garth is whatever, Karona is cool
glad peak
well yeah, that's because dragons are whack
lusty trench
Didn't you guys love golos
golden plover
If your commander is Atogatog, Child of Alara, Cromat, or Horde of Nations you're cool
lusty trench
Weren't they soooo fun
golden plover
Yeah fuck Golos
Golos isn't even that bad to play against
He's just peak 5c bullshit
glad peak
there was a time when child of alara was reserved for the most boring of players
golden plover
Just make a value engine with a good 5c effect that does whatever to put in your command zone
I'm sure I'm forgetting a 5c commander, but most are just big dragons
golden plover
Progenitus is cool, too bad he got powercrept by a 3W dude who has a unique type line for some reason
New Jodah is fine, old Jodah is cool
glad peak
old jodah is just ramp with less steps, i'd hardly qualify that as cool
golden plover
He's the world's worst ramp card
You'd almost always wanna pay casting cost over WUBRG
Unless the casting cost is something ridiculous
glad peak
even with that, it's just a ramp card
golden plover
So that makes him fun, because you're usually playing bad shit
glad peak
i dont think playing bad cards constitutes as fun on its own
golden plover
True, but he's almost always used to justify bad cards
That's more fun than "here's 99 good cards in every color"
glad peak
bad cards are used to justify bad cards, it's like using 3 cards to have the same effect you could've done with 1
sleek ferry
Peak “I don’t play this game to have fun” is Tymna and thrasios
Like wow, you are actually doing the most vanilla shit in a format that you’re supposed to enjoy playing
glad peak
you dont like drawing cards and going into any number of infinites just for playing the game? 
lusty trench
Me when the value is engine
languid quest
Like wow, you are actually doing the most vanilla shit in a format that you’re s...
not just that but taking fun of experimenting and building deck that you want in format that encourages that
I guess some people just can't play any format in MtG without netdecking or just using most obvious picks
glad peak
i mean, trash pile is a fun deck and it's a good thing it's competitive in cedh
trash pile referring to the old old bad modern deck which stuffed all of the 2-3 card infinites into one deck for no reason
trail anvil
it took me until now to realize, toxic only applies the amount of counters it states and it doesn't scale on power
I imagine that was another way they made poison counters more healthy
lusty trench
The fact the commander has toxic 2 but requires 3 for its ability pains me
fallow citrus
still annoys me they just made nerfed infect
but bringing infect back would have probably made people not happy
glad peak
Inb4 “technically infect is just buffed poisonous”
languid quest
considering that infect isn't fun to play against it's better this way
granite badge
I feel like that's only true in 1v1
golden plover
Yeah the infect nerf makes no sense
granite badge
in EDH its the same reason why combat damage wins are rare
golden plover
Deck isn't seeing play anywhere
granite badge
cause you need to deal almost quadruple the damage you do in 1v1 constructed
golden plover
Only thing I can think of is people finding the wins "cheap" or whatever
But you can argue that for winning via literally anything outside of collosal Dreadmaw
lusty trench
In commander it's literally just people not liking getting atraxa proliferated or blightsteeled
granite badge
I think the only thing I actively dislike playing against is stax and even then
its fun to break stax locks
golden plover
Stax can be unfun, but it's also a necessary evil yeah
granite badge
not to fun to have non games from a oppressive board which literally makes you unable to play anything
golden plover
Since stax punishes unfair things like combo more than "turn my guys sideways"
Infect has this whole weird stigma, but when was the last time you actually lost to infect?
It's also way less likely in commander because you've gotta do 30 damage, and unlike combat, other players don't help
glad peak
I’m just sad there isn’t really a way to play tempo other than infinites with some permission or stax
copper pecan
Yeah the infect nerf makes no sense
it isn't because of balance, it's because a lot of players absolutely hate infect
according to maro it's the single most polarizing mechanic they've ever put out
golden plover
Yeah I knew it was because alt wincon over balacne
Still dumb to bring it back but just make it a lot worse then
Like infect isn't doing anything anywhere. Either make them suck it up and have to occasionally see it, or just don't use similar ones
When MaRo was talking about UB cards he said "players are gonna have to interact with stuff they don't like" there. It's weird to not do that for a mechanic
copper pecan
there are a lot more people who hate infect than there are people who hate ub
also just because there are people who don't like infect doesn't mean that they shouldn't do anything else with poison counters
there are more implementations than just infect
also infect absolutely sucked in limited and standard whereas this doesn't have the same problems as it and can be splashed into any deck even if the poison isn't the wincon
golden plover
I mean this is just outright weaker infect
copper pecan
it's not
golden plover
It is tho, you can't buff the creatures or anything
copper pecan
infect doesn't do regular damage whereas this does regular damage in addition to the poison
glad peak
This is definitely weaker infect
Regular damage doesn’t matter if you win by infect and poisonous proved this long ago
copper pecan
with infect you need to build your entire deck around infect in order for the infect cards to even be remotely useable
whereas toxic doesn't have this problem
golden plover
The tradeoff isn't worth it if you actually wanna use toxic cards
copper pecan
if your wincon isn't poison you would absolutely want toxic over infect
glad peak
If toxic cards are anywhere, it won’t be due to toxic giving a secondary win con but due to utility
lusty trench
with infect you need to build your entire deck around infect in order for the in...
Both of these are the most likely ways a casual player will lose to infect
glad peak
If your wincon isn’t poison, you wouldn’t run toxic in the first place
golden plover
You're probably not playing toxic cards as one of cards unless the value is really there
You'd probably just be playing them as standard infect
copper pecan
ah yes because we're clearly going to cast 12 mana spells in limited or standard
golden plover
It's a needless tradeoff imo Because unless there's something pushed in the way of toxic cards you're not seeing them at all
copper pecan
cards can do more than one thing
golden plover
I unironically think Blightsteel is the whole reason they did this
Yeah that's what I'm agreeing with
But it's either an individual toxic card with a lot of utility, or the archetype is good in standard
copper pecan
a card can just incidentally have toxic without making the card worse, whereas a card can't have infect without making it unusable in any deck whose wincon isn't poison
glad peak
Cards can do more than one thing but why would you have a worse body/effect just because toxic is slapped onto it compared to if it didn’t
lusty trench
ah yes because we're clearly going to cast 12 mana spells in limited or standard
Ah sorry I thought we were talking like in general and what the player base is most likely to run into
copper pecan
in limited having infect made cards worse and scared people away from using them because they wouldn't have enough infect cards for poison to be useful
golden plover
Shooting at 2 different wincons isn't something you'd do, unless you're getting a ton of value from the card
glad peak
For example let’s consider a 2/1 for 2 etb destroy an artifact or enchantment; with toxic it would most likely be a 1/1
golden plover
It also means exactly 0 toxic cards are gonna see play in infect, forcing it to be a different archetype
Unless one of the toxic cards is REALLY good
copper pecan
For example let’s consider a 2/1 for 2 etb destroy an artifact or enchantment; w...
in a set on mirrodin a 1/1 for 2 that destroyed an artifact on etb would be very good
glad peak
Yes but why run that when you can have a 2/1 for the same cost
We’re not talking about limited here btw
copper pecan
because not every format has literally every card in the game
it's okay for cards to be designed for standard or limited
lusty trench
because not every format has literally every card in the game
But at that point you're running it for everything else besides toxic
copper pecan
so?
golden plover
It is, yeah. But they're nerfing an entire archetype just for standard because it made people mad
copper pecan
if the goal of the game is to have fun then making people mad is something that should be avoided
glad peak
I mean, infect isn’t in those formats you’re talking about 
golden plover
Infect isn't in any formats rn
That's the thing
It's seeing niche modern and some pauper play
glad peak
Toxic makes the feelsbad come from the person playing toxic rather than the other way around
fallow citrus
it would probably only exist in standard
golden plover
But like, new infect cards wouldn't change much unless the cards are mega pushed
lusty trench
Alt win cons always make people mad cause they feel like they're cheated out of "proper gameplay", the same people who whinned about infect will still whine about toxic if they lose to it
copper pecan
But like, new infect cards wouldn't change much unless the cards are mega pushed
it wouldn't change much outside of standard but it would matter a lot in standard
golden plover
Alt win cons always make people mad cause they feel like they're cheated out of ...
Pretty much
A Blightsteel colossus that's Toxic 11 instead would be hated equally as much
glad peak
Heck people still whine about infinite combos that take ages to set up
copper pecan
which is what these sets are primarily designed for
golden plover
Yeah I've had people complain about inconsistent 4 card combos in some of my decks
glad peak
Let’s be honest, people who were going to lose to regular damage would lose to toxic as well and get mad about losing to toxic
golden plover
Yeah exactly
It's a weird pointless change because the audience that complains about infect is gonna complain exactly as much
glad peak
Alongside the people playing toxic being mad that toxic won the game and the opponent was maybe at 1 life or already dead or that they didn’t even get to go to 10 poison
golden plover
Now it just feels worse to try and play the archetype, and it split the archetype into 2 in legacy formats
lusty trench
Except if toxic ends up being so bad they never lose to it
In which case toxic is a pointless mechanic
glad peak
Except if toxic ends up being so bad they never lose to it
Especially if this
golden plover
Yeah if toxic is unplayable it's actually worse
Because then people will complain more they lost to "a bad mechanic that just steals wins"
glad peak
They literally put themselves in a lose/lose situation on a mechanic that functionally already exists
copper pecan
at least wait until you see how it plays before you say that it plays worse
golden plover
The only way to win is to either go "suck it up and deal with infect" or never use it again
I can tell it plays worse
Because of buff spells alone
copper pecan
the buff spells winning the game out of nowhere was a big thing that people disliked about it
golden plover
Not being able to change the toxic number is enough to know it plays worse
lusty trench
the buff spells winning the game out of nowhere was a big thing that people disl...
That is absolutely not why
glad peak
We can tell it plays worse due to poisonous already existing and players hating how redundant it was to have
copper pecan
i'm not talking about power level, i'm talking about whether or not the mechanic is fun
glad peak
This mechanic isn’t fun for both players
copper pecan
how was poisonous redundant, it literally came out before infect did?
glad peak
Poisonous was redundant because it dealt regular and poison
golden plover
It'll feel bad when your power swings for the correct infect total but your toxic number comes up short
glad peak
And most of the time people who would’ve won by poison already won with damage
golden plover
If I swing with a 3/2 with toxic 2 and they've got 7 poison counters, it'll feel like shit
copper pecan
If I swing with a 3/2 with toxic 2 and they've got 7 poison counters, it'll feel...
i don't see how that's any different from attacking with a 3/2 when they have 4 life
golden plover
Because I can tell my 3 isn't gonna close out the game
copper pecan
"if my card was more powerful i would have won, so they should make all the cards more powerful" could be applied to literally every mechanic ever
glad peak
It’s more like with that situation your opponent is likely to have 0 life
golden plover
Yeah that too
There's a lot of interactions where toxic just feels like a bad play
glad peak
Unless they ramp up the toxic vs power levels which so far it doesn’t look like they will
copper pecan
you guys know corrupted exists, right?
golden plover
Yeah but that's an independent mechanic
Corrupted could just as easily exist in a format with infect
glad peak
Yep and toxic will only be playable if corrupted is very good
golden plover
Yup, otherwise toxic won't see any play
glad peak
And even then you just need to hit that threshold then the rest of the game, poison counters wouldn’t have any text
golden plover
And like I said, dividing what should be the same archetype in legacy formats is gonna suck
golden plover
And even then you just need to hit that threshold then the rest of the game, poi...
I mean it already looks like it'll feel bad for the toxic commander to be toxic 2 when corrupted is 3+
She's gotta connect twice to do anything and at that point, you're at 4 and you might as well be shooting to win off the toxic damage
glad peak
Eh I can see why they’d want that card to swing twice before getting an ability, it’s meant to be a long game format
golden plover
I can see that, but she's also 5 mana
glad peak
Or at least that’s how they’re designing these cards
golden plover
She's gotta make a rotation around the table to swing as is
So t6 usually
So it'll be 7 before she's online
copper pecan
I mean it already looks like it'll feel bad for the toxic commander to be toxic ...
you can have more then 1 toxic creature
and proliferate is in the set
golden plover
you can have more then 1 toxic creature
I'm aware. It just feels bad the commander specifically for the mechanic can't enable it alone
copper pecan
How likely is it that these precons will contain more removal than Sheldon’s dec...
100% likely
golden plover
How likely is it that these precons will contain more removal than Sheldon’s dec...
If they put a single one in, then very
glad peak
and proliferate is in the set
Now that’s adding extra cards to make a bad one even playable
copper pecan
Now that’s adding extra cards to make a bad one even playable
it draws you 3 cards every turn, it's not unplayable
of course you need to jump through some hoops for that
glad peak
It draws you 3 if and only if you manage to get 3 poison counters onto 3 players
copper pecan
it shouldn't be easy to do that
copper pecan
if you're running this card in commander your deck should be built around doing this
not every commander needs to be a generic value pile
glad peak
That being said, this is likely a lower powered stax commander option
copper pecan
nor do they need to be cedh playable
glad peak
I never said they did, I’m saying the card doesn’t even function before a ton of hoops being passed
Getting corrupted for 1 feels bad at turn 4 and 2 feels like it should be their intended level
To do that you need way too many things going right
sleek ferry
They should have made it so each poison counter you have makes you discard a card at the end of your turn
Now that’s a way to use poison counters in a different way
glad peak
I’m all for toxic fueling corrupted but damn did they mess up on the numbers aspect
sleek ferry
They could have easily just made it if x player has a poison counter
It incentivizes blockers
golden plover
it shouldn't be easy to do that
[[Etali]] does the same thing off a single swing
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
[[Etali, Primal Storm]]
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
And the cards are free
For 1 more mana
Oh 2 more mana, but it's still way easier
Hell, for one more, you can play [[Gonti, Lord of Luxury]]
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
Ya know, the Boros one is growing on me a lot more
Easier to turn online, and only has to attack to play the cards whenever
twilit canyon
whats the drama today
golden plover
Discussing toxic being nerfed infect for no reason
trail anvil
I feel like you have a lot more power budget for important things when you switch to toxic tbh
if some toxic cards are good enough I think they'd see play with infect decks
golden plover
It's gotta be something they do unrelated to toxic tho
trail anvil
I mean, it can be both
a natural strength on top of working towards your alt win con
copper pecan
yeah that's what i've been saying
atomic harness
Tell em komimma
glad peak
toxic itself is redundant to damage, a literal core concept of this game
it's like trying to win the game with mill when you have enough to swing in for lethal
that being said, there is a card with toxic that will very likely see play in modern infect that just got leaked
just because corrupted gives toxic cards slightly more utility (not to mention not all toxic cards have corrupted) does not make it not a redundant ability
hidden ermine
My biggest issue with toxic is that its just poisonous
The difference is so miniscule as to not matter
atomic harness
trail anvil
bruh lol
thorny vine
I have temporarily returned from the void with great news
We’re going to actuall...
I got to counterspell my opponent into submission 10/10 locals would get manaflooded afterwards again
trail anvil
it just says a copy so wouldn't it take the new stats
twilit canyon
yea still a baseline 2/2
trail anvil
you'd also have to copy some high value creature that isn't based on ETB I guess
sounds pretty narrow
twilit canyon
could have been an uncommon
trail anvil
like the 2/2 might've had some value in draft I feel like if the effect was half decent
glad peak
This is just a 3 mana clone that can become a 2 mana “exile your creature make a clone” later
The wording suggests that the equipment doesn’t enter with the 2/2 but rather the 2/2 gets created, sword gets attached, triggering sword
trail anvil
I think this one will become a white staple though
||gaining life, providing chump blockers that you can boost later and potentially turning into a big ol board wipe all sounds real nice||
||even more so if poison counters actually become a legitimate strategy||
twilit canyon
neat
trail anvil
this one looks really interesting too, ||potentially extremely annoying to deal with in stuff like brawl||
twilit canyon
This is just a 3 mana clone that can become a 2 mana “exile your creature make a...
oh ur right
it does become a clone on etb
so its a 3 mana 2/2 clone
glad peak
||gaining life, providing chump blockers that you can boost later and potentiall...
They can’t block
glad peak
So it’s basically an aggro card for 7 mana for the reason why you’d play it
Compared to martial coup which is similar but you can at least block so x lower than 5 isn’t bad and it becomes a control card
trail anvil
||control wincon but with not too much protection?||
glad peak
A pretty good pioneer creativity payoff
Play that then delve into treasure cruise or temppass, win the game
trail anvil
||this seems really damn solid as an instant, working as both a removal spell and a reanimator spell||
last glen
||seems kinda funny as targeted hate||
story-related spoilers
||does that look compleated to you?||
||wait, can't be, no Phyrexian mana||
more story spoilers
||guess this confirms the earlier leaks||
||they really confirmed Vraska and Jace in a card just to compleat them both lamo||
oh
Pioneer implications
||allied fastlands for pioneer||
rigid scarab
||THE SUN CYCLE IS BACK THAT'S ALL I NEED||
rigid scarab
more story spoilers
||guess this confirms the earlier leaks||
||Really confused as to why this art is on Phyrexian Arena. Should be on a removal instant or soemthing||
last glen
||Really confused as to why this art is on Phyrexian Arena. Should be on a remov...
I guess ||she compleats him in a Phyrexian arena.||
rigid scarab
||That's... odd||
atomic harness
||circles are hot||
fallow citrus
last glen
pog cheaper allied fastlands
Allied fast lands in Pioneer now, too
fallow citrus
oh yeah true
sleek ferry
throne of eldraine my beloved, how i miss you so
last glen
Are allied fasts better than modal lands?
fallow citrus
yes
atomic harness
Had a decent time w commander, friend group was nice
I love the old bordered look they went w
I got to do baleful strix skullclamp
glad peak
Allied fast lands are much much better than modal
fallow citrus
this card is also lowkey goated
oh shit
one sided mycosynth lattice
[[mycosynth lattice]]
lost widgetBOT
fallow citrus
locus searcher oh god
funny orzhov aggro card
for 3 mana this is going to be insane in standard
golden plover
None of these feel worth it in infect so far tbh
Actually the one land felt okay
But the rest don't feel worth
golden plover
This is hella pushed tho. 4/4 Trample Toxic for 3 and it's only 1 G pip
All the others with that statline have been GGG
[[Old Growth Troll]] is the closest I can think of and he's GGG
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Troll Warrior
Trample
When Old-Growth Troll dies, if it was a creature, return it to the battlefield. It's an Aura enchantment with enchant Forest you control and "Enchanted Forest has ': Add ' and ', , Sacrifice this land: Create a tapped 4/4 green Troll Warrior creature token with trample.'"
4/4
golden plover
Mirrex seems okay. The other two seem bad
glad peak
one sided mycosynth lattice
This is nowhere near as good as lattice since you can’t lock your opponents and you don’t want to spend 3 mana on only your stuff being artifacts
Rotpriest was the card I was referring to as a card that might be able to make the cut in infect @golden plover
fallow citrus
This is nowhere near as good as lattice since you can’t lock your opponents and ...
it's probably only going to see play in standard cause there's the other card in this set in blue and that cares about artifacts you control
golden plover
Rotpriest was the card I was referring to as a card that might be able to make t...
I don't think Rotpriest is worth it
Maybe as a side card? But it relies on the opponent targeting you
fallow citrus
this dude
golden plover
Oh you can do it yourself
fallow citrus
also sidenote but
golden plover
But it's still too slow imo
fallow citrus
I love that For Mirrodin! is just better living weapon
golden plover
Might be worth trying 1 or 2 I guess, but I just don't see it
glad peak
It’s slow but they’re running a third color for an uninteractible way to swing in as is
golden plover
For Mirrodin! is nice flavor, but I hate the exclamation mark
It feels too cheesey
golden plover
Something like "Rebel's Cause" or whatever would have been better overall, since they're now locked into Mirrodin-only reprints
glad peak
this dude
This dude can just turn your guys into blue artifacts in the first place, you don’t need to waste 3 mana and a card for it
fallow citrus
This dude can just turn your guys into blue artifacts in the first place, you do...
yeah i forgot that part
last glen
Story discussion spoilers
||The "W" theory is still holding true....||
hidden ermine
The what theory?
last glen
Well if you're going to come out and say it
fallow citrus
||the theory that if you put W on the picture of all the planeswalkers it maps out who's being compleated||
or the other way around I can't remember
last glen
there's a picture of it way earlier in the channel
glad peak
I wish it was M
fallow citrus
also can't wait for cloudpost reprint now that we have a locus searcher :^)
glad peak
It’d follow MoM and panharmommy
golden plover
I think they just put Locus on it as a way to make it more relevant in older sets
golden plover
They did the same thing with [[Tazri, Beacon of Unity]]
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Human Warrior
This spell costs less to cast for each creature in your party.
: Look at the top six cards of your library. You may reveal up to two Cleric, Rogue, Warrior, Wizard, and/or Ally cards from among them and put them into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.
4/6
golden plover
Wow her WUBRG ability feels worse every time I read it
Top 6 only and it doesn't even reduce the cost of itself
fallow citrus
just bad coco
glad peak
Nah it’s just bad adventures awaits
A card no one knows and is less restrictive than this
I might build old school ug infect tbh
They don’t have to rely on 3 drops for the last ticks of infect anymore
clever sun
So many cards so far look pretty underwhelming
The hypest thing is the allied fast lands for me
But like 90% of card choices so far are like
Added to make standard miserable
sudden lava
I like the new keyword
Also these 2 looking kind of fun for part of the 99
||Grazz for wide token decks, and Kemba for cat tribal with equipments 
. Part of the 99 for Kemba cuz you have better white catmanders||
sudden lava
||Playable yes, but not worth of commander because you have Arahbo which gives green and always gives your cats extra oomph||
sleek ferry
arahbo doesn't get you free value in the form of free equips
golden plover
I guess it depends on the deck, but I can't see wanting to run enough cats and equipment for her
twilit canyon
||Playable yes, but not worth of commander because you have Arahbo which gives g...
commander??
lusty trench
Did a dominaria remastered draft, got a full art sylvan library and a old border vampiric
Feels good
sudden lava
yes misty, commander
twilit canyon
irrelevant format for card evaluation
anything is playable in commander
so it doesnt matter
sudden lava
I think you missed something, you still wouldnt use this as a cat commander
copper pecan
this seems pretty crazy
sudden lava
its fine
twilit canyon
<:weirdchamp:636293304765513728> I think you missed something, you still wouldnt...
you absolutely can
something existing doesnt invalidate other worse options
hidden ermine
this seems pretty crazy
3 mana 4/4 with trample, effectively toxic 2 and proliferate
Yeah that could be decent
sudden lava
You can, but you still wouldnt. I'd rather the +3/+3, you even get access to ramp through Arahbo roar of the world.
fallow citrus
it's a very good standard card
twilit canyon
You can, but you still wouldnt. I'd rather the +3/+3, you even get access to r...
this is irrelevant cus yea u can do that or u can play cat equipments and have a casual mono-white cats
sudden lava
even if its mono white cats, you have plenty of other commanders for that including Kemba.
golden plover
this seems pretty crazy
Yeah that's some crazy powercreep
golden plover
[[Old Growth Troll]] is GGG
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Troll Warrior
Trample
When Old-Growth Troll dies, if it was a creature, return it to the battlefield. It's an Aura enchantment with enchant Forest you control and "Enchanted Forest has ': Add ' and ', , Sacrifice this land: Create a tapped 4/4 green Troll Warrior creature token with trample.'"
4/4
sudden lava
yea but none of them are cedh built right?
relatively cheap, but the top commanders for equipment cats
lusty trench
What misty is saying is since edh is a casual format, you can bring anything to the table and thus what you bring power wise doesn't matter
At least I think
sleek ferry
That is correct
It doesn’t matter what your commander is unless you’re optimizing it for cedh, as it is a casual format
twilit canyon
yea
languid quest
so its irrelevant
you are irrelevant
twilit canyon
didnt ask but ok
sudden lava
but yeah if you're running white equipment cats, the original one does the job a bit better. Plenty of tokens.
and you still can run the new one
sleek ferry
I mean, new one gets big equip costs on for free
You go more Voltron, and can always have a threat as long as you have a cat in hand
twilit canyon
sure but its not a big deal to run either as commander cus its casual edh
ur not optimizing it
sleek ferry
but yeah if you're running white equipment cats, the original one does the job a...
Old one also instantly loses all tempo to board wipes
New one has constant pressure unless you get vandalblasted
sudden lava
true
but like yeah thats the weakness with token decks.
if I were to make cat equipment tribal, would go more voltron personally.
languid quest
Kemba also has issue of having to build around her so you can't just have her as one of 99 in cat tribal
sleek ferry
I mean, if all you care about is going wide with cats, no other commander does that better than the girl that makes cats and dogs from new capenna
Because now you can actually run good token generators and not just strictly cat ones
sudden lava
The non anime art has less weapons in the artwork
and looks even more furry then the anime one
languid quest
but anime one is cuter
sudden lava
Yep exactly, cuter and more weapons and less furry 
granite badge
and looks even more furry then the anime one <:weirdchamp:636293304765513728>
that's a positive in my book
golden plover
True MTG could use more furries
copper pecan
there should be a set about the weeb vs furry conflict
also this seems pretty decent for control decks
copper pecan
people used [[castle ardenvale]] as a very slow finisher in control decks and this is cheaper
lost widgetBOT
Land
Castle Ardenvale enters the battlefield tapped unless you control a Plains.
: Add 
.
, : Create a 1/1 white Human creature token.
Without Ardenvale's loyalty, the realm would greedily devour itself.
glad peak
I really hate how it can’t block
last glen
also being only colorless after the first turn is kinda oomfies
yeah it's a utility land
but I feel like it's got stiff competition in non-rotating formats
golden plover
Yeah the more I look at it, the less I feel like it's playable
glad peak
The “can’t block” type line kills all viability for this token to be used as control deck mainstays
golden plover
It'll depend on the spheres support ig
But paying 3 for a 1/1 that can't block is not where you wanna be
golden plover
Oh true. Yeah you never wanna be paying 4 for a 1/1 that can't block
A big advantage to ardenvale was that if they were swinging at you, you could tap it to chump something
last glen
I guess it's technically a faster clock than raw 1/1s?
golden plover
Technically, yeah
But you're trading the ability to chump for it
If you're expecting to get 10 of the through, your deck is probably either awful or you're playing much better cards
glad peak
Also the clock doesn’t really matter if you have a lock on the game
golden plover
Exactly
I think it'll end up like [[Thran Portal]] was. Hyped up to hell, but actually sees next to no play
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
Like Thran Portal at least has a bit of a home
I can't see anywhere that wants to pay 4 for 1/1s that can't block
fallow citrus
thran portal would have had a home if they didn't reprint fast lands in standard
atomic harness
Thran kek
glad peak
Oh hey Tyvar actually has modern implications
How many Devoted Druid pieces can you add before it becomes a playable deck?
twilit canyon
at least 16
my only issue with tyvar is that he is golgari
while devoted druid piles are selesnya
and he doesnt fall into coco
also kaya is fucking nuts
too bad shes 7 mana
or good thing shes 7 mana?
idk how to feel about her besides all her abilities are very strong
glad peak
Eh it used to be abzan back in the day
twilit canyon
i know it used to be
sleek ferry
Where’s the leaks at
sleek ferry
Let me see my boo Kaya aka future mtg mc
twilit canyon
heres kaya and some dogshit azorius legend
heres tyvar
i think we have all our survivors now
yep
emperor, kaya, tyvar, kaito, koth
1 in each color cleanly
sleek ferry
Tyvar is nuts
twilit canyon
i love the -2
copper pecan
yeah by process of elimination it has to be nahiri and lukka as the last two phyrexians
sleek ferry
Kaya is prob overcosted she could have been 6 and still been fine
twilit canyon
with hexproof?
i think at 7 shes fine
she is extremely unkillable
shes not like the new emperor card
copper pecan
when was the last time we got a card with hexproof instead of ward
twilit canyon
there are a very very few set of cards that actually kill this kaya
even turning sideways is a struggle vs her cus she +2s
sleek ferry
The Azorious legendary is the most standard level card I’ve ever seen, and is probably standard playable depending on what else Azorious gets this set
sleek ferry
Her +2 is like the most disappointing thing about her imo, her 0 and -3 are amazing though
golden plover
I dunno, I don't think it's one I wanna pay 7 mana for
golden plover
I think she's solid, but 7 mana for it feels bad
twilit canyon
but at 7 mana?
i understand
like its supposed to be balanced
but she would have been 6 if they wnated her to be extremely influentials
sleek ferry
I’m thinking about the fact that ob nix is a bigger life swing at 3 mana (if you cast it with casualty) that’s why the +2 seems eh to me.
golden plover
Ngl I am a bit disappointed Nahiri got compleated
twilit canyon
im not
golden plover
Feels like a cop out to not wrap up her current story arc
zinc shard
wow first planeswalker with hexproof
twilit canyon
#ripbozo
golden plover
And it's weird considering her sword is the next set symbol?
I mean Nahiri as a character is an asshole and she sucks
But she was mid story arc
twilit canyon
idt its her sword as the set symbol then
golden plover
I guess Jace was too with the whole "return to vyrn" thing
twilit canyon
its just a coincidence
golden plover
It's weird they used the same handle and two holes if it's not the Stoneforge Blade
Like I guess it's a sword that looks like the Stoneforge Blade
golden plover
It's not, but it is almost exactly the same one as a notable sword
Also damn, they really did compleate all the non-human walkers
twilit canyon
jace?
copper pecan
tyvar isn't human
golden plover
I know Tyvar is safe, but Ajani, Tamiyo, Vraska, Nissa, and Nahiri were some of the few notable non-human walkers
It's already rare enough we get non-human walkers
granite badge
there should be a set about the weeb vs furry conflict
it would just be Ajani, Lord Windgrace, & Nicol Bolas vs the world lol
golden plover
Yeah, it's even rarer the non-human walkers aren't elves or blue/whatever people
atomic harness
Hexproof kaya pog
sleek ferry
Wasn’t lord windgrace a piece of shit in lore?
twilit canyon
iirc windgrace was just kind of a douche but not really that bad of a guy
at least not compared to urza
hidden ermine
Not a high bar to clear
Mostly he just hated artifacts and anything to do with them
golden plover
@last glen lmao the W theory was true
golden plover
The joke is that it's Tibalt disguised as Lukka
hidden ermine
Ah
zinc shard
||Emperor and Kaito are\ also safe||
trail anvil
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805846945947320320/1061092641183367250/ca...
the more I read this kaya the more I like her
at first I thought that +2 was underwhelming (at 7 mana it kinda is) but everything else seems nuts
drawing 2 in exchange for a scry seems like a pretty nice tradeoff and that -3 is real nuts
glad peak
Huh she straight up just wins the game
With enough defensive creatures you can tap out for her then turns afterwards just keep drawing to set up a lock then plus to win
Huh this is actually neat
Essentially +1 power to infect creature and close enough to protection (stepmom)
copper pecan
wonder if phyrexian tribal will be a thing
granite badge
would be genuinely surprised if it isn't
could easily be a draft archetype at least
glad peak
As in phyrexian lords? Or just a deck with lots of phyrexians
granite badge
phyrexian toxic
glad peak
Because if you’re looking for a deck with lots of phyrexians there’s infect
rigid scarab
Huh this is actually neat
Mom what did they do to you
glad peak
They’re not going to print mom or stepmom into standard let’s be honest
glad peak
Yes, it is I, totally human mother
atomic harness
We had a 5 player precon commander session earlier, my buddy and I were the only ones left
sleek ferry
Lmao how long was the game
sleek ferry
Holy hell, How was it though, did you enjoy your commander experience?
atomic harness
Yeah it was pretty fun! I liked the politics/alliances aspect of it
yesterday I had to go home early so they focused me all 
so I made my comeback today
sleek ferry
atomic harness
Mishra player which was right beside me was drawing 4 every turn and wiped the field plus got 6 powerstone tokens
so we amassed an assault on him
but before he died he took out our friend with a the captain engathrod deck who had a ton of horrors
sleek ferry
Glad you enjoyed it. Commander def scratches a specific itch other tcg’s/formats don’t.
So what’s next, are you guys going to upgrade, build new decks or what
atomic harness
Yup we plan to slowly upgrade our precons every month
Aside from occasional cheap upgrades that the lgs had
I bought a stonecoil serpent and a soul guide lantern, sword of the meek (but not doing the infinite)
looking for vault skirge and spellskite now
My buddy on mishra has a special rule imposed on him, he can only upgrade with old bordered cards to fit on theme
so time spiral stuff and the cards that I have but he doesnt from bro commander
sleek ferry
Ah, that’s a cool rule at least. Yeah you have so many options with Urza that you can honestly go so many ways
atomic harness
Neat 
Right now I'm looking for more artifact synergy cards from what I remember
Prolly stuff from new phyrexia and mirrodin besieged
rigid scarab
Yup we plan to slowly upgrade our precons every month
The absolute worst part about EDH is pubstomps so everyone being around the same power level is good
atomic harness
Yeye the guy who roped us into is keeping track of everything and taking care of it
thats why we can upgrade but slowly
and only on cheap cards
outside of the monthly upgrade
rigid scarab
I decided on
Every month
I set aside $45 to upgrade my 3 decks
Most games where I get an early lead I put on a goofy attitude
Because I know that my board is gonna be answered
So I try to make the table more light-hearted
The way this backfires
Is when it settles in that
Oh god
No one has an answer to my board
I'm just gonna remove everyone's stuff and win on turn 5
Uhhhhh
glad peak
I remember when my lgs ran a league like that
By week 3 it was all stax, hulk combo, and thoracle
fallow citrus
golden plover
So does every DMR box just have random ONE rares?
fallow citrus
apparently so
golden plover
Because ngl id be pissed if I pulled half of these from the more expensive limited run set
Expecting better limited run rates and getting standard rares
Glissa feels kinda bad tbh
hidden ermine
Oh is it just rares?
glad peak
Glissa is great in a combat heavy standard
fallow citrus
bootleg kavu
glad peak
Just because she can’t really be blocked well
fallow citrus
and vice versa, quite a good blocker
golden plover
I mean yeah, she's tough to block. But I think you'd rather block her than let them draw
sleek ferry
Wait glissa is nuts
golden plover
Maybe she's better than she looks, but I feel like she's probably nothing crazy
sleek ferry
She has first strike and deathtouch, that alone is a bitch
But then she has 3 solid effects
fallow citrus
yeah you'd block her maybe if you just had garbage on board
but you aren't throwing your good creatures under the bus
sleek ferry
If she was a 1/3 you’d probably be more fine taking the damage but at 3/3 you don’t really want to take 3 + value
golden plover
True. She's probably better than I thought at first
fallow citrus
also just forcing bad blocks is good as well
golden plover
She's not a particularly interesting design tho
Just lots of good effects on a card for 3
fallow citrus
nothing has been particularly interesting in standard recently
black value cards the format
golden plover
Yeah pretty much
Everything that's been interesting has been overcosted to hell
I want more [[Hero of Precinct One]] style cards
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
there's definitely a lot of enchantments for glissa to destroy
you can also rewind sagas with her I think?
[[fable of the mirror breaker]]
lost widgetBOT
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — Create a 2/2 red Goblin Shaman creature token with "Whenever this creature attacks, create a Treasure token."
II — You may discard up to two cards. If you do, draw that many cards.
III — Exile this Saga, then return it to the battlefield transformed under your control.
Reflection of Kiki-Jiki
Enchantment Creature — Goblin Shaman
, : Create a token that's a copy of another target nonlegendary creature you control, except it has haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
Blessed by Keiga, the Tide Star, Kiki-Jiki would one day master the art of duplication.
2/2
trail anvil
yeah nice
sudden lava
damn that's good
lusty trench
What do you mean she doesn't destroy artifacts