But god is it not okay
#Pokemon
maiden flax
flat sedge
non tera overheat does a clean 50
lucid moth
this pokemon is not ok lmfao
its like they let mewtwo into the tier by accident
hell i think mewtwo wouldnt be as powerful legit
maiden flax
hell i think mewtwo wouldnt be as powerful legit
According to what i have heard
Yeah youd be right, apparently chi-yu normally hit harder than mega mewtwo y
flat sedge
well yeah you dont really get more than boosting item + boosting ability
but thats only hitting harder in like a vacuum etc etc gameplay
lucid moth
mega mewtwo y has like base 194 spatk
vs chi-yu's 135
the fact that chi-yu can clear damage that mmy cant is kinda nuts
maiden flax
Beads of ruin goes brrrr
mighty storm
volturn mayhem is the OM of the month on showdown
flat sedge
its a fun om
i laddered up a bit on it, but now i gotta learn gen 9 pic
pic is such a wild om
lucid moth
had to run the calc
just to see
wanna hit 3 focus blast in a row?
or would u rather click overheat twice and forget about it
outer eagle
So, according to usage stats, Annihilape is in 9th place, compared to Chi-Yu (with popular Tera Fire) in 3rd, Great Tusk (Tera Fighting) in 1st, or even Gholdengo (Tera Ghost/Fighting) in 2nd, and let's not even mention Dragonite and Iron Valiant in 4th and 5th. And of course, this is also not even taking into account pre-ban Tera Fairy/Ghost Flutter Mane and Tera Ice/Water Iron Bundle. You'd need to reach down to at least Ting-lu in 6th place to even get yourself a purely defensive Tera user. It would seem like defensive Tera is not as popular as offensive Tera.
random stream
Grass chi-yu is also an absurd one @lucid moth
the high elo ladder heroes like to use that one
maiden flax
So, according to usage stats, Annihilape is in 9th place, compared to Chi-Yu (wi...
Chi-yu least popular tera is fire
Dark and grass are more popular as renren can attest
maiden flax
Great tusk barely ever teras
Its a bit of a waste to do that
Similar to gholdengo who doesnt really tera all that often unless to beat up ting-lu in particular
harsh path
What’s a Gen 9 format that you’d recommend playing?
maiden flax
So, according to usage stats, Annihilape is in 9th place, compared to Chi-Yu (wi...
Also i already mentioned dnite there
Whose most commonly tera normal
outer eagle
yes, STAB ESpeed do be great
harsh path
Since I wanna get into Gen 9 but. have no idea what tier to play in that would be the most fun as much as fun is subjective
maiden flax
Yes
outer eagle
i mean, most often time if you wanna have fun
maiden flax
That in combination with the fact that its not weak to ice is what makes it so good
outer eagle
you just need to test it yourself
maiden flax
I remember people were hyping up tera flying dnite so much in prerelease but tera flying dnite is just painfully bad in comparison to any other tera it could use
random stream
no contest
maiden flax
Water or Fairy Garganacl
Agreed honestly
outer eagle
Dragonite isn't really that fast, so not sure why they'd think Tera Flying of all things was the best choice
maiden flax
Dragonite isn't really that fast, so not sure why they'd think Tera Flying of al...
Cause they were thinking "oh it gets a physical flying type move that hits very hard"
Similar to why people were hyping up tera ghost pult
maiden flax
Tera water floatzel with wave crash is very funny
@outer eagle here was the list of some common tera types in the tier (and the ones hyped up prerelease but fell flat)
harsh path
Water Types have always been my jam honestly
maiden flax
Rain will get better with home and the irony is i think itll largely be due to overqwil with how well it complements the other swift swimmers
outer eagle
Til this day i still haven’t learnt all of the Hisuian stats
harsh path
Though no time like the present to get the rust
Since I haven’t done much serious OU stuff since Gen 7
But yeah I understand why Floatzel
Swift Swim and having the fastest base Speed of Pokemon with Swift Swim
maiden flax
Swift Swim and having the fastest base Speed of Pokemon with Swift Swim
Youre mistaken
Highest base speed is skewda
For swift swimmers
The reason why floatzel as of recently is due to wave crash allowing it to outdamage skewda in raw power
(Skewda still has better coverage though)
harsh path
So they’re the main choices for big offense
More power with Floatzel vs better coverage and faster with Barraskewda, right?
maiden flax
Yup
Oh and floatzel does have 1 bit of coverage that skewda doesnt
Ice spinner
An ice type moves
Lets it hit garchomp and dnite better than skewda if they dont tera
harsh path
Wonder if my boy Pelipper has arrived once again to be the one and true Drizzle chad
maiden flax
Pelipper is indeed still ths drizzle chad
harsh path
Alright so far so good with Beeg Peeko and Wezl/Skewda
maiden flax
Kilowattrel is rain's main thunder user and hurricane user and electric immunity
People run weather ball on it so that it doesnt get completely walled by ground types like ting-lu
harsh path
So Kilowattrel is bootleg Zapdos
maiden flax
I prefer to call it the lovechild of zapdos and thun t that doesnt do as good as those two but gets the job done
maiden flax
sharp kernel
Kilwattrell is the best scaling tailwind user in doubles rn
placid junco
I can’t believe it
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/476308586893541396/1059654606071804034/1672703921560673.jpg
Iono is rayman
bleak pine
Sleeves so big they’re like, extradimensional portals or something
bleak pine
Get into a raid party
I go and pick Mudsdale, since I know the mon is gonna use nothing but physical attacks, meaning I can remain unbreakable
everyone else picks Azumarill
wut
They all use Belly Drum to maximize their attack while I just stick to Iron Defense
All three get KO'd.
WELP
latent sleet
i fucking hate people who use azumarill in raids
bleak pine
I don't mind it, just, please consider that just Belly Drum is not the answer to everything
warm sky
Imagine hating the fnuuy bnuuy
bleak pine
There's no problem with taking things slower instead of trying to risk end it on turn 1
latent sleet
i remember when all 3 of my allies picked azumarill
i was going against a fire type revavroom and they otk them
vagrant steppe
There actually is a downside to taking raids slow tho
The game hardly gives you enough time on the timer as is
latent sleet
not only that fucker had gunk shot it also had that unique move
bleak pine
It's usually enough time to wrap it up, in either case.
latent sleet
also overheat for some reason
bleak pine
It's why I'm also of a tech bent: I know a lot of my teammates are going all in on offense, so I try to do disruption and debuffing if possible.
vagrant steppe
If anyone gets KOed in a 6-7 star, the raid is fucked if you don't go fast
bleak pine
not only that fucker had gunk shot it also had that unique move
Spin out. It just Initial D's the opponent
golden lance
Honestly
latent sleet
the oldest trick in the book
timid oracle
Eurobeat starts playing
golden lance
Them locking all of the car good stuff out of player access is a crime
latent sleet
i remember when a 6 star jolteon raid and he hit me with a dollar store shadow bal
bleak pine
A shame it sharply lowers Revavroom's Speed stat
...It's not a stat it's that great at in spite of being an engine, but eh
latent sleet
he also has shift gear
bleak pine
Actually, does Gyro Ball account for lowered speed stats from Spin Out?
crimson moat
Them locking all of the car good stuff out of player access is a crime
It’s not like they can just change a Pokémon’s type, stats, kit and moveset and brand it as unique enough to use
(Narrator: but they did, as paradox Pokémon)
vagrant steppe
Yeah they should have let us get the starmobiles
bleak pine
I actually thought it was a Steel/Fire type at first.
vagrant steppe
That'll be a dlc thing tho
bleak pine
But, Steel/Poison was pretty fine too
latent sleet
why poison tho
vagrant steppe
why poison tho
Exhaust
latent sleet
ahhh
bleak pine
It does learn some fire-type moves, even if it isn't good at using them
Like, Overheat for instance, which is very fitting
vagrant steppe
That'll be a dlc thing tho
If they remember to make it dlc. They could just forget like a lot of the other stuff
latent sleet
yeah i recon that makes sense
vagrant steppe
Hell, Eternal Flower Floette still hasn't been officially distributed
golden lance
Lowkey
vagrant steppe
They set up the stuff for eternal flower to be an event in ORAS and just... Straight up forgot???
golden lance
Ultra necrozma being usable in battle is one of the reasons it's remembered much more fondly than eternamax
bleak pine
Honestly they forgot a lot of things in XY, so I'm not exactly surprised
latent sleet
actually which pokemon hasn’t been distributed yet?
golden lance
They set up the stuff for eternal flower to be an event in ORAS and just... Stra...
The battle frontier project!
crimson moat
The battle frontier project!
Pokémon Z
vagrant steppe
Despite Floette being in the game
latent sleet
never seen any post on reddit that states that
golden lance
Huh
latent sleet
i don’t follow leaks and datamines
vagrant steppe
It's just all stats raised by a stage iirc
golden lance
Ngl you kinda have to give credit to them for retconning the most popular mon they ever created out of existance for no apparent reason
latent sleet
so battle bond is just a omni boost now?
golden lance
Twice
golden lance
so battle bond is just a omni boost now?
Not even that, it doesn't raise def and spdef
vagrant steppe
Yup, alongside Floette
vagrant steppe
And Glameow
golden lance
Ngl i'm almost expecting them to bring zacian and zamazenta back but not give them the rusted items
Because players don't want to use cool stuff apparently
vagrant steppe
They already nerfed the stats of them
latent sleet
so zamazenta will just suck more now 
crimson moat
Battle Bond wasn’t even brought up in Journeys
golden lance
Battle Bond wasn’t even brought up in Journeys
Did gren even show up at all?
Despite being in the opening
crimson moat
They specifically avoided ever mentioning it in Journeys despite Greninja making appearances
crimson moat
Even the flashback shot to Greninja vs Charizard specifically showed regular Greninja
latent sleet
there is a a good amount of stuff that is avoided on journeys
like they show some pokemon ash that had vanished off existence
(primeape)
golden lance
Ngl
There is a non zero chance that kalos does end up as a dlc map
But only like
Ambrette town
latent sleet
lumiose city is gonna run like shit
golden lance
Lumiose City but it is as bare as Wyndon
And all of the cafés and shops are replaced by menu screens
crimson moat
You either get crappy washed down City or you get the game chugging
Pokémon SV can do both
latent sleet
and no inbetween
golden lance
Also prism tower in unaccesible
golden lance
And emma is also not there
And not a single character mentions her at all
Also all of the alleyways were filled in
Also you can't work at the hotel
latent sleet
looking back now people were too harsh on x and y
crimson moat
XY is a graphical update but it and BW1 started a lot of bad precedents
golden lance
Yea
Honestly xy's biggest issue was that it's really bland
(Insert france joke here)
latent sleet
fr*nch people
crimson moat
XY is the first time people really complained about a lack of any postgame, since besides the one hour essentia story it pars R/S in that department
golden lance
If you think about it
crimson moat
Also as far as the modeling update goes, gens 1-5 Pokémon were already modeled by the time BW2 came out, and were in the Pokédex phone app
golden lance
Oras kinda started the whole "the post game is now legendary hunting" trend
latent sleet
since the delta episode is like a hour and half long i can excuse it
vagrant steppe
Lumiose City but it is as bare as Wyndon
At least you can actually go in Wyndon's buildings
crimson moat
The post game is legendary hunting and a story that you might squeeze 90 minutes out of
latent sleet
but i’ll admit going into space riding rayquaza to fight deoxys is pretty metal
crimson moat
At least you can actually go in Wyndon's buildings
What do you mean all my rooms look like menus in my apartment
latent sleet
how did they make sv cities look even more bland
golden lance
Interior design is a myth
crimson moat
Someone did an analysis on SV as a whole and one of the big complaints on the main town was not just how bland it was and how the shops were just menus, but on how painfully redundant shops were
Every shop looked the same, a lot had duplicate item sets, and they basically just spaced out what could have been done in one bland SwSh town into one larger city
Two shops next to each other had literally the same items
latent sleet
at swsh towns were visually appealing
golden lance
I still think that that sv disregarding building interiors entirely is a direct response to the complaint of swsh's lack of battle backgrounds and the fact that all house interiors were the same but with the npcs placed differently
crimson moat
Also notable in the Pokémon league design being bland too
Why program 4 backgrounds in what can be done with 1
latent sleet
seeing how previous gens they had more bombastic entries its pretty dissapointing
crimson moat
SwSh’s excuse was that it was infused with a futbol stadium
golden lance
seeing how previous gens they had more bombastic entries its pretty dissapointin...
Gen 5 
crimson moat
(Which was also Colosseum’s excuse too, SwSh didn’t do that first)
latent sleet
Gen 5 <:deadinside:823133346573713442>
hell to a certain extent even gen 6 did it
crimson moat
BW2 gyms were peak
I saw a video a while ago on someone comparing environmental design on each gen and how it was getting exponentially worse from every gen 7 onward
golden lance
Yea, route designs are often overlooked which is a real shame
crimson moat
Like gen 6’s main problem was just the camera and limiting space in some areas.
Gen 7 had more issues with non-interactivity
Gen 8 had much more issues with non-interactivity than gen 7
And while the video did not cover gen 9, dude probably would’ve had a stroke
Gen 6 has not too much in issue of quality besides character models looking hokey. Gen 6 had issues in quantity, like BW1 did too but worse than what happened with BW1.
Even gen 7 kinda mostly just had the quantity issues, albeit it had major issues in linearity even compared to other Pokémon games.
Gen 8 
golden lance
One argument that i often saw ppl use to defend gen 8 routes is that "they're routes, they're intentionally designed to be a straight line from point a to point b"
Which is just ?????????
placid junco
God Gen 8 routes are just so much nothing
crimson moat
There’s like 1 good route in that game
placid junco
Gen 9 just has the issue of being a fairly generic open world designed to have every major biome sans volcanic areas
crimson moat
SV definitely made a good call in getting rid of routes but-
Yeah monotonous design is the problem there yeah
golden lance
Gen 9 just has the issue of being a fairly generic open world designed to have e...
Which is not impossible to do well, mind
placid junco
Ye
golden lance
Majora's mask actually makes good use of the concept
placid junco
It’s just game freak didn’t do it well
crimson moat
Botw is a bit more in your face on transitioning between areas, particularly gerudo, but it does well enough
golden lance
I saw someone compare old gens to a metroid game in how you "have to constantly backtrack throught routes" and how that slows down gameplay, and gen 8 handles it much better
vagrant steppe
I mean there's definitely ways to do interesting stuff in open world
Hell, look at stuff like red dead
Or even BoTW
crimson moat
Gen 8 does handle that better than previous gens mostly by account of the open world part
Kalos I feel did that fine too
Unova is horrendous for that specifically in bw1
latent sleet
and that is why in this 2h video essay i will explain why open world has been overused
crimson moat
The main problems with SV’s handling of open design are the monotony
And the goddamn awful layout with no scaling
The concept is there and the exploration works well in design
But damn is the execution off
You never hear anything even remotely bad about exploring the land catching pokemon except for the background (and frame rate)
golden lance
SV could really use some better bg assets, yea
golden lance
you guys remember the kalos rollerskates
Yes
The galactic wombo combo backflip was really fun to do
crimson moat
I remember the colosseum roller skate dude yeah 
latent sleet
always thought it was pretty funky
latent sleet
yeah i know 
golden lance
I mean they were right
Removing following pokemon makes hgss stand out more
By making the future gens lazier in comparison
Btw
Does anyone know how the bdsp modding scene is doing?
Last time i checked they were able to import mons outside the regional dex in
crimson moat
The only thing I had ever heard about BDSP modding is that people hated how it was coded up
latent sleet
no but i know about the remove ed sheran sv mod
obsidian juniper
should i go for Aerodactyl, tyrantrum, aurorus or none of them?
atm my team is Sandile, Quilladin, Floette, Pancham, Litleo and Vivillon
placid junco
Tyrantrum is just better overall
golden lance
should i go for Aerodactyl, tyrantrum, aurorus or none of them?
atm my team is S...
Did you ban megas from your run? Idr
obsidian juniper
havent really thought about that yet tbh
might just ban them tbh, i havent really felt the pressure yet
oh wow yeah, looking at it more, tyrantrum just seems better than aurorus in so many ways
jaw fossil it is
obsidian juniper
gonna go for the binacle/dwebble 50/50 instead of the steelix even tho a steel type wopuld be nice, because i like the other two more
placid junco
Both binacle and dwebble should be good anyways
placid junco
Ah yes
Stop overrating the duo that constant Murrow usage is keeping in check
polar osprey
The entire top 4 is not on murkrow
you don't get it everyone is running [insert status move] because of dondozo
jovial gobletBOT
you don't get it everyone is running [insert status move] because of dondozo
Could not resolve English data for searches: insert status move
placid junco
Haze
lyric pollen
Rabsca 
bleak pine
I was gonna try getting my Chansey to learn Heal Bell
But for whatever reason, it's an Egg move, and nothing in Paldea learns Heal Bell yet
Hmm
sharp kernel
Rabsca is very good (as I’ve been saying since the game came out)
bleak pine
Also super surprised at how many things can learn Trailblaze
tacit sphinx
Bruh
My fucking friend just said “Larry is a Flying type user in the E4 because it references that he wants to jump off a cliff”
golden lance
are they wrong tho?
placid junco
No he’s flying type because he’s floating above the ground after he’s hung
bleak pine
Three kinds of people
lucid moth
thinking of trying this team when chi-yu is banned
if annihilape isnt also killed alongside it which i doubt
long stone
nah that looks way better.
latent sleet
mighty storm
Fun fact the dog actually has two loving dads 
snow oasis
Besides Shroomish with Spore, what other pre-evolved mons can learn moves that their evolutions cannot access naturally?
outer eagle
Shellder with Icicle Spear iirc 
bleak pine
Torchic, Chimchar and Tepig can learn Flamethrower via level-up
But once they evolve, they can't
...I mean, they can via other means, just not by leveling up
snow oasis
That's still a way for their evos to access the move naturally tho
outer eagle
Do the Ancient Power evos learn Ancient Power naturally?
bleak pine
I remember Sneasel learning a few moves at one point that Weavile can't learn
But it's likely been changed up
golden lance
Besides Shroomish with Spore, what other pre-evolved mons can learn moves that t...
Almost every mon that evolves by evo stone
silver vigil
sand forge
Besides Shroomish with Spore, what other pre-evolved mons can learn moves that t...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/240025-pokemon-lets-go-pikachu/77217078
I found this for ya
snow oasis
harsh path
Oh so there’s 4 choices here not that I can vote
- Outright ban
- One Tera-use per team
- Reveal Tera-type at team preview
- STAB Tera only
What are the opinions of the more experienced of Gen 9 OU here on this?
I have no clue considering I am only recently getting into Gen 9 OU by building my favourite kind of team from Gen 7 in a Rain team
sleek sky
I'm seeing most high-level players favoring at least some form of restriction to curb extreme variance
I think a lot of the most vocal posters are for complete ban
but I think maybe there's more support for team preview
as you look at the playerbase as a whole, more people want it unrestricted
but this is a curated voting
my predictions are either full ban or tera public info
placid junco
Unrestricted is more fun
golden lance
In my opinion at least, outright banning the mechanic kinda homogenizes the gameplay when compared to other gens
sleek sky
it depends on what you believe the most important goals are
vagrant steppe
Imo it should be revealed on preview and everything else is fine
harsh path
Giving your thoughts on this I think I’m more in favour of Tera at Team Preview though I might be just talking out my ass
placid junco
Why even bother playing Gen 9 if your gonna ban Tera
harsh path
Though I’m only like halfway through making the team
placid junco
Cheese stick man isn’t worth denying possibly the coolest gimmick we’ve had thus far
Tbh I kinda wanna try out a torkoal + scovillain package
harsh path
with either Floatzel or Barraskewda, Pelipper and and that one electric birb that’s apparently the love child of Zapdos and Thundurus T
vagrant steppe
Tera has a lot of issues, but I think preview is worth it
placid junco
Kilowatrrel
golden lance
Rain without m pert just doesn't does it for me tbh
placid junco
Rain is probably the least interesting weather to me this Gen
Snow and sun seem really fun
golden lance
I miss the steroird frog with a billion atk
harsh path
Yeah could try something else instead for weather
golden lance
Yea snow looks fun
harsh path
Instead of just the “Kuri Classic”
placid junco
Even if it’s just veil abomasnow + Cetitan
You can just kinda slot the dynamic duo onto any team with 2 empty slots
placid junco
Oh the arctos are gonna be hella fun with snow
placid junco
I guess yeah
Snow king would be better for coverage
But slowking doesn’t get Aurora veil, does it?
harsh path
It’s right in the voting thread
harsh path
No action by .75%
golden lance
Without any restrictions?
golden lance
Huh
sleek sky
placid junco
Yeah I think Aurora veil abomasnow > snowking imo
Galarian slowking could be neat
harsh path
Maybe I should do Hail instead of Rain
placid junco
Snow is fun because the only snow warning in the format is a bulky Aurora veil setter
lyric pollen
"bulky"
harsh path
So that mon is their Pelipper
harsh path
I wonder what Sun Pelipper is
placid junco
Unless you even look at him with a fire type
Torkoal
Sun pelipper is torkoal
Sand pelipper is hippowdon
golden lance
What's electric terrain pelipper?
placid junco
Pincurchin
harsh path
Since I’m thinking of the other weathers and terrains in the sense of rain
Due to being my main team for a lot of Gen 7
golden lance
Same
placid junco
Torkoal + scovillain seems really fun
golden lance
Specs ash gren just hits different
harsh path
Also I will say that the Iron Bundle ban is a massive W for the Delibird delivery industry
lyric pollen
fwiw doubling a pokemons speed stat is not the same as doubling its base speed
placid junco
Fair yeah
lyric pollen
I think its actually better
an uninvested base 60 speed mon hits 219
univested base 120 is 339
harsh path
Though not sure on if I should do NatDex or Regular Gen 9 OU
flat sedge
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-suspect-process-round-1-voting.37137...
"Unfortunate" doesn't begin to describe my voting, this community rewards bad tiering decisions and nothing else, I am beyond convinced at this point. After getting completely tooled by voting with my barely attaining voting requirements, losing this way somehow felt even worse than I had thought possible. My voting was superior, my melodramatic arguement was superior, and I lost, so I don't see a reason to continue engaging in an activity where what is within my control is overwhelmingly outweighed by 0.75%.
placid junco
Lmao
Delicious salt
kind vortex
it's a copypasta edit
harsh path
It’s beautiful either way
flat sedge
I love the unfortunate copypasta
crimson moat
that's... literally the closest the vote has even been to the threshold. wow
sleek sky
could be closer
harsh path
To quote I believe the Melee announcer
sleek sky
there were five remaining voters
harsh path
“WOW! INCREDIBLE! A NEW RECORD!”
sleek sky
if they all vote for action, it could get even closer to 60%
they're announcing now because it is impossible to cross 60%
but we could get closer
harsh path
Apparently NatDex OU also was really close on their Tera suspect test
sleek sky
Did they break for action?
harsh path
No action either apparently
placid junco
Lame
crimson moat
Also looking at some comments, Chi-Yu is getting a quickban verdict next week
crimson moat
While I think it is amusing that "No action" was the vote, even a no action vote is far from the most unbelievable thing that happened with a smogon format
harsh path
What was the closest before the Tera Polls?
crimson moat
I think it was Mega Metagross?
sleek sky
I'm honestly really surprised there was no action
harsh path
I couldn’t vote but after getting opinions due to my inexperience for the format
I reckoned yea for action with revealing at Team Preview
sleek sky
Personally I was for no action
But I don't play at all so don't take my opinion too seriously
I'm just a spectator
crimson moat
Ok found one closer than Mega Metagross from years previous
placid junco
I feel like team preview is reasonable but just kinda removes some degree of unpredictability
crimson moat
Defense Form Deoxys was 59.34%
but that was before it was super majority
so it got banned
sleek sky
actually the one extra dude that voted after the announcement puts Tera at 59.36%
crimson moat
Well with the one untalied vote, Tera is 59.36
sleek sky
so that's ahead by 0.02% if no on else votes for action
crimson moat
Also in looking at banlist history, found the one time it was unanimous ban
Shaymin Sky form in gen 5
Hoopa Unbound was on the other side of the ban scale
61.24%
and I looked into it, mega metagross was close but not that close
57% in gen 6
63% in gen 7
but yeah next in line for the chopping block in SV is the fire fish
sleek sky
Is there a new radar post?
harsh path
Not sure which weather I should try since I was very used to playing Rain in Gen 7 and thought a Weather team would ease me back in
crimson moat
not yet, but according to some comments, the smogon discord already stated that Chi Yu will be next reviewed by the council
placid junco
not yet, but according to some comments, the smogon discord already stated that ...
That will probably be significantly less close than Tera
flat sedge
Or you can try sun, sand and snow are pretty dead rn
harsh path
From what I’ve heard Chi-Yu is terrifyingly strong
flat sedge
Sun gets to boost all the new protosynthesis guys
But pelipper is like 10x better than torkoal
placid junco
From what I’ve heard Chi-Yu is terrifyingly strong
It’s an insanely powerful special attacker that shaves off 25% of everyone’ else’s special def just by existing
harsh path
Pelipper the rain goat
placid junco
Also bootleg natures madness
crimson moat
And just a reminder by comparison, Dynamax ban vote was 86% pro ban
placid junco
Chi Yu doesn’t even need ruination does it
harsh path
May as well continue building Rain then since I had some choices for it so far
Barraskewda/Floatzel, Pelipper and Kilowattrel
placid junco
Barraskewda cooler
crimson moat
Ting Liu Kang and Wo Chien run Ruination a lot more frequently than the offensive ruin pokemon do
placid junco
I’m kinda surprised by how few galar Pokémon are in Paldea
placid junco
Fair
The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are barraskewda line and skovet line
crimson moat
I mean in general the transfer feature gens 8 and 9 has been horrendous overall
placid junco
Tbh ting liu and wo chien seem cool
golden lance
Defensive steel wall
Also you usually want 2 swift swimmers; 1 physical and 1 special
flat sedge
Golduck rain is real this gen
harsh path
So I guess Skewda handles the physical side
harsh path
Apparently Wave Crash?
Talking about the two the other day I decided on Barraskewda myself
faster eith better moveset
warm sky
Floatzel deserves being meta
harsh path
How I see it is more that winning more Speed calulations and more coverage is better than the raw force of Wave Crash
flat sedge
I imagine a fair part of it is people just liking floatzel
harsh path
Though in a Rain mirror against Floatzel I’ll still make sure to respect the Wave Crash
Regardless Water best Type lets gooooooo!
sharp kernel
Life orb floatzel with water tera does insane damage to everybody
But also, drednaw is better imo
lyric pollen
if dred learned wave crash the comparison would not be close
also dred obvs better in vgc because it learns the goat move
rock slide
I'm pretty deep on snow for my vgc team, aboma, cetitan and snowking
harsh path
Didn’t even consider Drednaw, not that my knowledge of Gen 8 and 9 is too great
Sp yeah that’ll be 5 so far
Physical Swift Swim Sweeper, Special Swift Swim Sweeper, Thunder user, weather setter and defensive steel wall
lyric pollen
looks like your team is solo'd by clodsire rn, so maybe something for that last
harsh path
Decided on 2 definitively so far at least for mons
Kilowattrel and Pelipper
But yeah some Clod coverage could be helpful from what I’ve about Clod
Pelipper rain goat 4 gens running
flat sedge
Rain when they Tera water the garganacl:
harsh path
Glad I’m thinking Skewda here due to possibly better coverage
So they can Garganacl deez nuts
Base 136 and Swift Swim seems too funny to pass up
golden lance
Pelipper rain goat 4 gens running
Pelipper didn't get drizzle until gen 7 tho
crimson moat
Pelipper didn't get drizzle until gen 7 tho
The gen 10 pelipper 
The gen 10 pelipper when it is removed for dex cuts 
placid junco
Inb4 all weather setters removed and we need to manually set weather
maiden flax
It is a little cup menace
Just like its evo which is a ou menace
placid junco
yeah I figured
350 is kind of a crazy BST for little cup right
or maybe its average idk
latent sleet
glimmora sole purpose to shit 5000 hazards and die is kinda funny
lyric pollen
while also being baby nihilego on the side
maiden flax
glimmora sole purpose to shit 5000 hazards and die is kinda funny
While that is its main purpose
You know whats funny?
It has the similar bulk and speed to the rotom forms
And has surprising coverage
Which means if you really want to you can stick a scarf on it and while modest it will outspeed pokemon like chien-pao
latent sleet
it has a okay movepool overall but i don’t have the dedication to make glimmora a tank
placid junco
You just shit out as much damage as you can before you die
latent sleet
and from a rock pokemon its base speed is not the worst
sharp kernel
I really wish Glimmora had levitate instead of corrosion
That would be the cherry on top
lyric pollen
skeledirge might be the greatest mon of all time
sharp kernel
It’s funny because it started off really hot in doubles and has fallen really out of favor
lyric pollen
I still really like it
sharp kernel
It’s cool, but the middling speed hurts it vs the Pokémon it’s supposed to check
lyric pollen
i feel like its wins almost every 1 v 1
vagrant steppe
It's really insane in the story mode, but I think it's mid in any comp stuff
lyric pollen
i think its OU in singles
and high usage in vgc
i dont think any unaware mon with a decent bst can be mid honestly
unaware is just a criminally good ability
sharp kernel
Quaquaval meanwhile is actually really insane with the combination of its signature move + moxie
Unaware is what makes skeledirge
lyric pollen
its can match up well into ape
as long as you dont hit it
special unaware mon vs dondozo is also very nice
sharp kernel
Ape just has better checks. Vs dondozo though it def does shine
lyric pollen
i also run snow so literally never dies under veil
harsh path
What are my options for a Special Attacking Swift Swimmer
vagrant steppe
Yeah pretty much
harsh path
I’ve just been insisting on making a Rain team since it was what I was used to.
lyric pollen
you can make a rain team without a special swift swimmer
in fact, you probably should
sharp kernel
Run annihilape with water tera
harsh path
Even more opportunity to try newer stuff from 9 and 8 does sound nice
Only newish mon was Kilowattrel until now
and maybe Drednaw or Barraskewda
harsh path
Wash is indeed a certified hood classic
harsh path
So far was Wash, Kilowattrel, Drednaw/Barraskewda/Floatzel is someone convinces that the only reason its a contender isn’t only access to Wave Crash and Pelipper
lyric pollen
singles and vgc
harsh path
Thinkong for the last two slots is something defensive and a measure for avoiding being bullied by the C l o d
Oh wait Annhilape I’m gonna try to almost forgot
So just some defensive steel wall then
bleak pine
Alright taking suggestion on what mon I ought train up to level 100 next
sharp kernel
This is my snow doubles team
lyric pollen
Im way too scared to run 5 fire weak mon
Im currently running aboma/cetitan/slowking/dragonite/pawmot/skeledirge
harsh path
I know Copper was laughing about Aurora Veil Abomasnow earlier
vagrant steppe
It and frosmoth both feel like wasted slots
I dunno what you'd wanna run instead, but moth is just not even close to there
Abomasnow has some utility at least
vagrant steppe
Moth is cute, but I think cute doesn't win you enough games to justify it
sharp kernel
Frosmoth is actually insane this Gen. It’s speed control (icy wind, tailwind), damage control (struggle bug), aurora veil setter, wide guard user
vagrant steppe
Do you really wanna run icy wind?
lyric pollen
icy wind is good
vagrant steppe
On a mon with 65 speed?
Icy Wind is fine, but I can't see moth being the one to use it
Surely there's a better mon to put it on that doesn't die to light breeze
sharp kernel
That’s the thing, what common lead is actually committing a double up on frosmoth. You’re always getting aurora veil up in snow + either blizzard or icy wind if you lead moth + abomasnow
vagrant steppe
I don't think you need to double up, land a single steel move and it's dead
Or a fire move, or flying move
lyric pollen
I don't hate mothj
vagrant steppe
Moth just doesn't have the stats to be worth playing imo
lyric pollen
I just wouldnt run it with 3 other ice types
vagrant steppe
You're in the worst defensive typing and you don't outspeed anything
placid junco
Tbh I wouldn’t even go full ice aside from slowking anyways
vagrant steppe
Yeah, I don't think Ice has the tools at all imo
But even then, you've got Weavile and stuff this gen
placid junco
Pretty much just do veil aboma + slush rush Cetitan and call it
vagrant steppe
You can just use good mons who happen to be ice type
vagrant steppe
Yeah Bax is good for sure
lyric pollen
but it doesn't need snow obvs
vagrant steppe
And not requiring the snow is a huge upside
placid junco
I hear belly drum situs berry slush rush is popular for Cetitan
vagrant steppe
Maybe when we get A-ninetails or whatever snow might get the tools it needs
But I feel like snow just isn't there
lyric pollen
mitigating the fighting weakness, plus stuff like dragon claw and rock slide weaknesses in snow is actually really good
vagrant steppe
Especially when you've gotta justify moth
placid junco
I kinda hope we get a snow warning mon aside from A nine tales and aboma
placid junco
He tries his best
vagrant steppe
And Ninetales isn't awful, but she can't carry
placid junco
Yeah
lyric pollen
so its actually not that bad, i swear 
vagrant steppe
Yeah Abomasnow isn't awful, but he's not particularly good either
He's fine and fills a niche
Oh A-Ninetales even gets icy wind
placid junco
Support aboma seems funny
Leech seed, Aurora veil
vagrant steppe
Yeah, wait until we get Ninetales to play with ice
Or until we get ice kingdra
I guess that's Baxcalibur, huh?
lyric pollen
except it also has respectable offensive stats
vagrant steppe
True
Either way, point is that snow is better than hail, but it still feels super lacking
lyric pollen
I enjoy using it, but yeah
the problem is just the ice types
or the ice type
being so frail
and then yeah sure you tera
at which point you dont get the snow def boost anymore, so half the reason you want to use it is gone
sand forge
Naclstack is also there
lucid moth
oranguru maybe?
uncut cradle
Kinda looks like slaking
young river
placid junco
this is a fun theory
last musk
So the AZ canon made area zero theory?
placid junco
Ye
maiden flax
Or may
Or dawn
maiden flax
this is a fun theory
My question is how?
Since we know where the cannon was fired
long stone
this is a fun theory
but there are no megas tho
placid junco
I said it was fun not realistic
silver vigil
crimson moat
I didn’t look at the list, but Larry is first right?
lucid moth
no its rika
crimson moat
Larry is first right?
last musk
Larry is first right?
Rika is first, then the toddler, then larry
Sorry am tired thought you meant the order you fight the elite four members
crimson moat
How many times do I have to say the joke for someone to follow?
crimson moat
Someone made an info graph.
Tera Preview was by and far the most popular choice for the take action group
crimson moat
I give it til the next wave of mons come in, handled in similar fashion
Genesect gets banned again, then Tera gets retested
civic flint
I frankly find preview to be like the most non-option tiering action
worst being stab followed by 1 Tera
all being said, I am glad that tera is still here; think we needed more time with it in total to see how it fairs
sharp kernel
After playing the meta since release, I don't even think the tera mechanic needs to be seen at preview. the majority of pokemon have 1 ideal tera type they want to go, a good amount have 2 and very few have 3+ that are viable.
civic flint
yeah
which is like why I think its a non-option
everyone already knows what tera it is
sharp kernel
Yeah, but here we are. I'm glad they at least didn't outright ban it though
tacit sphinx
https://twitter.com/nise_shi/status/1611027146809683968
levsian
tacit sphinx
lesbiab
snow oasis
Man people really HATE smogon and I don’t get it
lyric pollen
people like the cool looking mon like chomp
and they want to be able to use it against shitmon
since they can't win when the other guy also has good mon
outer eagle
People hate things they don’t understand and don’t bother to understand
maiden flax
Someone made an info graph.
tera preview also the most popular amongst those who said no action, honestly i feel like the people who chose no action are mostly people who wanted preview but too afraid of the others winning so just choosing no change instead
snow oasis
Preview seems like the most strategic option, you can play around their Tera types but you still don’t know which mon will Tera and when
sand forge
Tera is dumb b/c I don't like the hats
snow oasis
I’m sorry to hear that. Have you tried crying about it?
sand forge
Terastalisation should be like Dynamax, with certain Pokémon (Gen1 starters) getting Giganstalisation which gives them unique forms
(they are fun)
random stream
I’m sorry to hear that. Have you tried crying about it?
outer eagle
Terastalisation should be like Dynamax, with certain Pokémon (Gen1 starters) get...
Oh cool.
More nostalgia pandering.
Just what we needed.
snow oasis
my man is incapable of recognizing sarcasm
harsh path
Sarcasm does tend to get lost in text
snow oasis
Look, there are times when it’s difficult to recognize
But when someone starts presenting things in (parentheses) like the “God’s drunkest driver” type memes it’s pretty clear
sand forge
I'll die before I start using "/s"
snow oasis
if someone on the internet can’t recognize sarcasm it’s merely an issue of skill
that said, it is infuriating when I post something dripping with sarcasm and someone takes it at face value and starts mocking me/my opinion
and you can’t be like “no dumbass you’re just a moron” without ruining your own joke
sand forge
At the same time, sarcasm should be used sparingly
snow oasis
mmm
sand forge
To maximise impact
snow oasis
if you do use it sparingly, however, it’s more likely to be misinterpreted as genuine
sand forge
If I had written "(Charizard)" would it have been more obvious
sand forge
It's simply imperative that Charizard get 2 Mega Evolutions
And a Gigantamax form before the starters of that actual generation
Rillaboom being the only good Gigantamax out of the 3 imo
snow oasis
It’s a little known fact that Z-Moves were actually shortened from chariZard-Moves
lyric pollen
paradox mon legal for vgc season 2 👀
sharp kernel
Ah man, was hoping we could delay it for one more series
lyric pollen
apparently the season doesnt start until feb 1
but no point testing for anything aside from those rules, unless there are events ig
sharp kernel
Series 1 in general was way too short
We should have gotten at least 6 months of this meta
fading stratus
paradox mon legal for vgc season 2 👀
Oh?
Do they allow multiples or just one
snow oasis
Who would have imagined that a mon with a BST of 660, with an ability that not only isn’t a negative like Truant or Slow Start but is actually a positive, would fail even to crack OU
like the fucker has 120 attack and 138 speed and 92/115/115 defenses not even factoring in Dauntless Shield
That’s what an ass movepool in Ghost Format gets you ig
placid junco
What having a dogshit coverage does to a mfer
snow oasis
Being a defensive Fighting mon isn’t great too
placid junco
Idk why everybody says Geeta was 0 challenge
Like her team is really slow overall
But it’s not that easy
tacit sphinx
Who would have imagined that a mon with a BST of 660, with an ability that not o...
Reminds me of how like
Zacian has a higher BST, better typing, better movepool, more specialised stats
than Regigigas
tacit sphinx
Fuck if Zamazenta had Body Press
It wouldn’t be amazing but
Or like you know what
idk if this would break it
but give Zamazenta King’s Shield
It’s a shield
obsidian juniper
Regigigas just seems sad to me
snow oasis
Give it Shore Up
tacit sphinx
Actually lowkey
I want Bastiodon to have King’s Shield
I also kinda wanna see Rampardos get Accelerock because that would be fucking hilarious
tacit sphinx
Haha holy fuck
Okay out of curiosity
If Rampardos had some speed it might be kinda funny as a meme
outer eagle
Give Rampardos every priority move in the game
tacit sphinx
I just checked and apparently Head Smash off a max investment Rampardos would do 59% minimum to Pex
snow oasis
What’s Rampardos’ stat line again
tacit sphinx
Terrible Griff
snow oasis
I just checked and apparently Head Smash off a max investment Rampardos would do...
Pex is barely clinging to the dregs of OU as it is iirc
tacit sphinx
97
165
60
65
50
58
snow oasis
Offense does not need any help atm
tacit sphinx
Pex is barely clinging to the dregs of OU as it is iirc
I mostly just picked it as an example of a tank
outer eagle
59% seems...low? I mean, i know Pex is Pex but i expected more
I guess i was too used to spamming Banded Wood Hammer from Bulu
tacit sphinx
But yeah Rampardos literally just dumped every fucking point it has into Atk
and HP kinda to avoid recoil
tacit sphinx
59% seems...low? I mean, i know Pex is Pex but i expected more
I guess i was too...
I guess but it is a neutral hit tbf
snow oasis
59% seems...low? I mean, i know Pex is Pex but i expected more
I guess i was too...
Gotta remember that it’s technically only 26% bc heehoo let’s give the mon with insane defensive stats Regenerator
outer eagle
In SM format even max investment Pex wouldn't want to switch in on Banded Bulu
Iirc you had a high chance to kill after Rocks from max health
tacit sphinx
Yeah the problem with Rampardos is like
Well okay
One of the many problems with Rampardos is
snow oasis
“There are two problems with Rampardos, and both of them are everything about it”
outer eagle
die too quickly?
outer eagle
inaccurate?
tacit sphinx
If it doesn’t die
You die
Right?
If Rampardos doesn’t 100% kill absolutely everything in one hit
Why bother
outer eagle
well at the end of the day you're still banking on hitting an 80 accuracy move
ask Greninja how often they regret that
tacit sphinx
Okay so
Reading some Legends Arceus shit
Apparently the strong version of Head Smash has more damage and accuracy lmao
But you take 75 percent recoil
I lowkey want this
Sounds hilarious
snow oasis
Head Smashes Blissey
Instantly explodes
outer eagle
if anything
tacit sphinx
Anyway
Been wondering for a while
Obviously you want both but is HP or Def/SpD better
Like which results in more longevity on average
snow oasis
Most smogon sets tend to put EVs in a defensive stat instead of HP when they can
tacit sphinx
Mostly I was having this thought recently because of like
Okay so you know gen 1
I think gen 1 had no idea how important STAB would be
snow oasis
Gen 1 had no idea of anything period tbf
tacit sphinx
And I was wondering what other stats might have some baggage from early days
No but like straight up Griff
Look at Scyther, right
Gen 1 Scyther is designed for Slash
It has a very high crit rate
Good speed, attack, etc
No STAB
And like lots of stuff is like that
placid junco
That’s because bug had a nonexistent move pool in Gen 1
tacit sphinx
Gengar isn’t bad but in Gen 4 when it actually got to use its STAB holy fuck
You ever see Gen 2 Gengar
It’s depressing
outer eagle
Putting a number of defensive stat to exactly one side often provides you with highest increase in that exact defensive side
tacit sphinx
Fucker runs Ice Punch
snow oasis
Gen 1 weren’t like 77% of all moves Normal
outer eagle
but in terms of overall bulk increasing HP is usually more rewarding
tacit sphinx
Also true
snow oasis
My boy was unironically running HP Flying just to have STAB
outer eagle
tbf 70 base power STAB was ok back in gen 1
tacit sphinx
Early Pokemon underestimated STAB’s strength imo
Like they didn’t fully get how big a deal the damage buff was
snow oasis
name one
tacit sphinx
Ground resist
snow oasis
Flying does it better
tacit sphinx
Eh
All I know is that Pinsir has a niche in Gen 1 almost solely on the back of the Ground resist and SD
sharp kernel
you guys are sounding like zoomers right now
placid junco
you guys are sounding like zoomers right now
A majority of Pokémon fans are zoomers at this point
snow oasis
Bug is almost always a drawback to have on a mon
snow oasis
you guys are sounding like zoomers right now
how could we be zoomers when we’re debating early gens
tacit sphinx
Heracross loves the Ground resist and Forretress is a good mon even if it’s fallen out of favour
snow oasis
Forretress is a good mon bc it’s Steel and has Spikes + Rapid Spin
outer eagle
Poor Forretress having Ferro take its job 
tacit sphinx
Actually lemme double check GSC viability
wot tha fuck
The highest usage Bug in GSC rn is
Shuckle??
The fuck did I miss
vocal torrent
Owo
tacit sphinx
This fucking set
RestTalk, Toxic, Defence Curl
This is a bit
There’s no fucking way
obsidian juniper
Based tbh
snow oasis
Wh
tacit sphinx
Okay according to Smogon
snow oasis
What the fuck happens when you run into a Poison type
tacit sphinx
What the fuck happens when you run into a Poison type
Doesn’t matter
The only thing relevant is that Shuckle checks Snorlax
And apparently
oh my god.
Y’all wanna know why Defence Curl is on there
It has 64 PP
tacit sphinx
it’s a pp stall shuckle
snow oasis
I mean makes sense
tacit sphinx
that checks snorlax and exploders
GSC OU is fucking wild y’all I love this format
This is what you do when you have Snorlax in your tier
snow oasis
Honestly tho this seems like
Dreadful?
Like just run something that can actually exert pressure?
tacit sphinx
Griff if it can slow down Lax that is pressure
obsidian juniper
Highest pressure bug type
snow oasis
I thought that had fallen out of favor
snow oasis
Honestly tho
If Shuckle is the most popular Bug in GSC OU that kinda speaks to how ass Bug is in GSC
civic flint
Preview seems like the most strategic option, you can play around their Tera typ...
I mean we honestly already have tera preview; it's just behind a skill curve
outer eagle
didn't the last VGC tournament have open team sheet style?
civic flint
Yeah
sand forge
Regigigas just seems sad to me
Just wait until Pokémon Legends: Regigigas
Where we get Primal Regigigas
bleak pine
BROCK HAS BEEN TAKEN
warm sky
snow oasis
Where we get Primal Regigigas
it's just regular Regigigas but with a different ability
sand forge
Normalize
mighty storm
https://twitter.com/Purplecliffe/status/1611238227700224000?t=Z5aVaMb8-BEUmKkeYc...
its like the charizard story cards 😮
mighty storm
sand forge
it's just regular Regigigas but with a different ability
Also it is now Normal/Bug
Inexplicably
obsidian juniper
It is now ice bug
long stone
Cave Painter Smeargle
GF: Digital art instead...
snow oasis
Also it is now Normal/Bug
It will be the first ever Normal/Normal (with Normalize)
if you click Close Combat it simply disintegrates
sharp kernel
grafaiai's alright though
sand forge
Don't care, Shroodle ruins the whole line
sharp kernel
alright i will make a doubles team with the first 6 fully evolved pokemon people name (1 per person)
sand forge
Ampharos
obsidian juniper
Amoongus
snow oasis
Azumarill (this is the A team now)
obsidian juniper
Damn, we get a cool themesong
normal cave
Arcanine
latent sleet
hydreigon 
snow oasis
normal cave
hydreigon <:nyaruhodo:873056991973634078>
not an A pokemon
snow oasis
shoulda picked an A mon
obsidian juniper
vagrant steppe
Aggron
latent sleet
i like hydreigon tho
normal cave
But the theme is ruined
sharp kernel
aggron is sadly not legal this gen as of yet
normal cave
latent sleet
sorry 
snow oasis
It’s literally just Hydreigon and Goodra
obsidian juniper
Hydreigon was obtainable to late in the game for me to develop an attachment to it