Optional game rule suggestion: See start before choosing Civ

[haughty cargo]

My co-op friend just dropped the coolest mode suggestion I've ever heard: The option to see your starting location and then choosing your Civ. This would be a cool optional rule for certain games, where, instead of generating the map on the basis of the Civ, choosing the Civ on the basis of the generated map. This could lead to some very interesting player choices, where you'd might have three or four civs optimal for a specific start (let's say navigable river and tundra, or an island start with lots of rough terrain). The player gets the option to adapt to the start, instead of choosing a certain strategy based on the playstyle of the civ chosen beforehand.

What do others think? I think this would be a wonderful game mode for later in the production stages, that enhances replayability and introduces a new way of interacting with the map and the strategic aspect of the game!

[gleaming prism]

This would take a big part of the fun out of it for me - adapting to what map you’re given

Which is a huge part of civ imho

[haughty cargo]

I thought so too - but then realized this is kind of what we do when choosing the new Civ for the next ages. And I mean, isn't choosing the Civ also adapting to the map? I know I'd be going "Oooh this is a great Silla start!", just like how I'm getting hyped when I realize how my ancient game is setting up for a good Inca Exploration Age. Not that I'd always play it, but I thought it would be an interesting change of the usual formula.

This would ofc be an optional game mode. And I don't mean seeing all the map, just what you see at the start of an age and then perhaps expanded a couple of tiles.

Optional game rule suggestion: See start before choosing Civ

[fleet sand]

I fear this would give an edge to map-oriented civs like Egypt, Silla, Tonga, etc and mess up the balance. Note that currently these civs are already somewhat busted

[gleaming prism]

It would cause a nightmare in MP as well, everyone wanting the perfect start etc

[haughty cargo]

Which is why it would be optional. Just a way to shake up the formula, not changing the core mechanic of the game and break balance etc 🤷‍♀️ Couldn't the arguments you use just as well be used against the restart button (in singleplayer)?

[fleet sand]

If you restart the game because you didn't like your starting location that's still okay because the next seed you get is also random, so you don't have a control over your start location per se. You may restart the game 100 times and still not get the optimal location for your civ. Can happen.

However, when you enable players to place their settler directly on their own from the get-go, you kinda cheese the game since you remove that randomness from the game. Not every start will be fruitful, and you need to live with that. You should optimize your yields, quarters, districts, defenses with whatever geography you had. It's a part of the challenge imho.

You can make it optional, but I would oppose this with my wholeheart in multiplayer games. I don't want my opponents to have this fixated edge from the get-go.

[haughty cargo]

I agree in a way, the challenge you describe is a challenge that I (really) like. Don't get me wrong, the classic formula is a lot of what I love about Civ in general. But, the challenge of getting a start and thinking "Hmmm which Civ would be nice with this start" would be another challenge that I would think neat sometimes.

For pvp multiplayer I absolutely agree, this optional rule would be atrocious for balance. For co-op multiplayer, though, I have a few friends who I know would love this. A lot of times, me and a friend devise, for example, a strategy that depends on starting close to each other. Being able to pivot and choose a different strategy with different civs if the starting location is horrendous for our strategy would certainly be a fun, another challenge or opportunity.

No hard feelings though, apparently quite a few people would hate this idea 😅