Make the Economic victory harder to achieve

[nocturne cloud]

Currently i'm finding i can achieve this victory far sooner than any of the others so i find myself purposely delaying it so i can achive one of the other victories.

[gritty glen]

Which one? Modern is already the slowest

[subtle pier]

Or maybe make EVERY victory type harder to achieve

[nocturne cloud]

yes, all of them could be adjusted to make them a little harder but i feel the economic one needs to be more inline with the others.

[hidden nexus]

economic victory is the fastest for you? what the heck? I always thought how the heck are you supposed to get fast economic victory, it feels like a slog to me. Meanwhile science victory you can just rush past the tech tree with high science and culture victory is cheesy anyway and even military victory you just conquer a handful of different ideology cities and can immediately start building manhatten. To me economic victory always seemed by far the hardest and I say this as someone who steamrolls deity ai.

At what turn do you usually get economic victory (standard or online speed?)

[onyx flint]

There is no way economy is the fastest. You gotta share what setting you're using, and which civilizations you're playing man.

[nocturne cloud]

I don't play to win in the fewest possible turns, but i often obtain the great banker before i even get to build a launch pad.

[nocturne cloud]

I don't pick a special leader or civ as i like to keep it random, but i play on standard speed, extended ages, sovereign difficulty, my last 2 games i had the great banker before i had even built a launch pad.

[onyx flint]

If you're ruling huge empires with only few specialists, science production could be low while having big advantage for acquiring as many as possible economic resources. Perhaps particular play style could lead to particular situation. Economic victory is considered hardest victory in normal gameplay.

[nocturne cloud]

Maybe that's why as i don't maximize my specialists. My science is usually on par with or above the other leaders though.

[cedar grail]

You can't "speed up" economic victory. You can start the process faster yes but you're still bottlenecked by the number of resources and factories.

So making this victory harder to achieve I don't see a reason why.

[nocturne cloud]

I usually have 25-30 factory resources slotted in fairly early as i build several rail stations and factories which speeds up the legacy path.

[cedar grail]

That's what I mean, there's no "speed up". You're getting 1pt per resource regardless.

It's just a matter of who has the science to get there quicker and start generating points.

I'm talking about Modern... forgot to mention this

[nocturne cloud]

i never mentioned speed up, just stated that i always seem to end up way ahead on the economic victory path.

[cedar grail]

That's what this is implying hu lol. "which speeds up".

[onyx flint]

Perhaps this meme could explain pov of mine.

[nocturne cloud]

@plain badger why downvote?

[plain badger]

Ngl for me at least I found myself almost finishing science before hitting milestone one for Econ

[nocturne cloud]

I guess it comes down to play style and your access to resources, but it feels like victory conditions were more balanced in Civ6 than they are in 7

[onyx flint]

Actually there is a way to speed up economic victory : to have more resources by expanding your empire itself. That's why I'm guessing this man has his own unique playstyle.

[celest wren]

I dont really get this meme. you could easily flip them over and include 'build an aerodrome, complete the supersonic flight project, build a Launch pad. SEND A ROCKET TO SPACE WOW!! and it would just as reasonably fit. Is the economic path considered more interesting to others?

[cedar grail]

You're still gated by the tech and production. Sure, it looks like you're speeding up the victory say if you were on Marathon speed and just prolonging things lol

[nocturne cloud]

I usually have at least 18 settlements by the time i enter the modern era, combine that with trade routes and i have more than enough factory resources.

[onyx flint]

If you have some screenshots of the game around the time you got the launch pad, maybe we can help. Perhaps you're used to expanding and managing your empire in the traditional Civilization series way, but you're not as good at handling the mechanics added in Civilization 7, which is why your science output is falling short of the size of your empire.

The reason for this speculation is that economic victories have limited ways of boosting and necessarily require a set number of turns, whereas science and culture victories can be done super fast with huge boosts depending on how well designed your cities are.

[nocturne cloud]

I don't maximize my specialists so i'm missing out on science there, but my science income is always on par or above the AI leaders.

[onyx flint]

Maybe the AI's output is dropping because you've been trampling it with your army. Maybe it's because you're playing a much more expansion-oriented game than a building and managing, which creates an experiential gap with other players. It also probably has something to do with the civilization or leader you're playing, which is why I asked what civilization you're playing in the first place.

Each of the ways to win in Civilization 7 has a lot to do with your playstyle. If you're playing balanced, a science victory can come as quickly as an economic victory, so you might want to give it a try.

[nocturne cloud]

Possibly so but i'm usually passive and defend rather than attack, they just give me extra settlements as part of the peace deal when they are losing the war. I can't remember all the leaders i've experienced this with as i usually just pick a random leader.
My last game i was actually trying for a science victory but got an economic one much sooner, may be connected to me not having a huge amount of specialists.

[brazen blaze]

I noticed that the silk roads lp (economic antiquity) was a lot easier to complete after they updated the resources and suggested that they increase the number of resources to make it more challenging but that post didn't get much support. Hopefully this one will get on their radar

[rustic willow]

Meh, IMO they should change the modern victory a bit to make it more interesting. In some regard, Economy feels like a mini-Science victory in the sense that you research certain key-technologies, build the appropriate buildings and then just wait around. Sure, you can extend trade, get more res, speed up your progress. But this is all quite flatline boring to me. And then traveling around with the Banker feels like Science project/Culture or Military wonder victory with extra steps. I want the final victory types to be more difficult and not just on the same scale as the legacy victories u can achieve in Antiquity and Explo. Additionally, it would be more interesting if everyone started on equal footing (like the “rebalancing of powers” each Age transition brings) but this is not the case at all in Modern. Anyone who was strong in a specific yield in Explo continues to be strong in this regard in Modern. In some sense, Explo decides most of the games already. This is an entire other topic, but just my two cents about economic victory needing more mechanics than just “skip turns”

[cedar grail]

I mean every legacy and victory path requires a tech / civic lol. That's what civ is, get tech / civic, get new things, do new things. That's all civ games for any victory path.

[rustic willow]

you state the obvious, but it does not justify the monotony of the system. The tediousness of the victory paths comes from that. If we take it ad absurdum, we could simply say that unlocking the last tech/civic grants the scientific/cultural victory, because in the end, it all boils down to unlocking new technologies and civics.

[cedar grail]

I still don't see the point of making victory paths harder to achieve for the reasons you give because it's easy or it "feels" boring to do. So far that's been the argument.

[gritty glen]

Not Dom

[rustic willow]

Let me be a bit more extensive on my explanation, I can see that my argument was lacking depth.

"Harder"/"Difficult" was probably bad wording. I guess the direction I actually wanted to hint at, was "more depth". The current ways to win the final victory all consist of approaches that can be accelerated via a certain set of gameplay mechanics that run throughout all ages. For the sake of keeping it to the limit of word length and since I believe we know what these mechanics are, I won't list them.

What those mechanics have in common, however, is that they are all passively accelerating at a speed that can be increased by min-maxing, consisting of a lot of smaller choices. Albeit these choices are great to have and players can witness an action-reaction loop, the overall sense of achieving a victory type can be lackluster due to missing active participating in each victory type.
The only exception might be Domination (and Culture in a technical sense), since that one revolves around a bigger sub-system of gameplay which has a lot of depth to it already (different unit types, strategic use of commanders, battles over districts and more). In the other cases (Sci, Cul, Eco), most of the time the only solution to actively "win" at those - with "losing" meaning "An opponent accelerating a victory type faster than you" - is war. There are no active mechanics that can pull you further towards a victory type than eliminating another player. And by "pull you further", I don't mean mechanics that are easy to play out, but consist of investment and risk. Without these options other than "war", I do think it is boring to go after a victory type in Modern due to being resorted to smaller choices and waiting after a certain point. I can upgrade all my settlements into cities and build the 2 scientific buildings and then just set it to science projects. Oh and I can run one science espionage. That is not exciting to me. This is plain boring and results in a waiting game.

[cedar grail]

Technically yes, you want higher tier units to take settlements lol