Treasure fleet resources being available on your continent but not actual treasure makes no sense

[real sedge]

The entire point of the historical scramble in the exploration age for resources like spices and gold, as the game tries to mimic, was because those resources were not available or scarce in the homeland, and their people paid a pretty penny to have access to resources they had to sour the globe to find.

I don’t understand the logic behind the recent changes to resources. Horses shouldn’t be a treasure resource if I have a bunch of horses all over my home continent. Why would I focus all my energy in an age to bring in a resource I already have in spades, when there are plenty others I don’t have yet? Your medieval citizens aren’t going to pay top dollar for something they have at home just because it happens to be across the ocean, and it’s not going to financially be worth trying as hard as the game makes you try for these resources without the scarcity being priced in. The only exception I could see is silver/gold.

Why are my citizens all 😍 for horses from an across the sea but 😕 for the ones right beside them? It’s ahistorical to have the system work this way. The treasure resources themselves also spawn too infrequently now. There are a million bugs with the game, why are you prioritizing changing the few mechanics that worked?

[olive plover]

The devs explained the reasoning behind these resource changes in the 1.2.0 patch notes

[jovial wren]

I mean, there was gold in the old world. Didn't stop the Spanish from going absolutely crazy about the new world gold.
I think regarding horses, it could be a new, better breed that the nobility covets: maybe they're considered more beautiful, maybe they're faster, stronger? The fact of the matter is that some breeds of horse are kinda luxurious, like Arabian horses.

[fast flame]

yeah different breeds of horses, maybe the gold is a different alloy or something. And the novelty of it over more readily available resources on your continent means your people value it more

[real sedge]

If you’re going to reply, at least read the whole post

[tropic viper]

Don’t need to get sassy.

Not everyone’s going to agree

Agreed on the frequency of resources though 😁

[jovial wren]

I mean, your point is that there is no use for treasure ressources if there are already such ressources in your home continent, no? I just took your horse example and gave you a possibility as to how that would work.

[real sedge]

I’m not asking people to agree, I’m saying I mentioned the gold! Because it’s the only example along with silver that makes sense

The logic you guys are applying applies to every resource in the world, it’s not unique to treasure resources, why do they get unique treatment for being a slightly different version than what we have at home?

[tropic viper]

Well in game reason as e-shock said has been explained - it’s to pave the way for the future mechanics

[kindred burrow]

Because the wealthy of the world have always and continue to pay more for it.
Even though it's the same damn thing.

[fast flame]

people arent willing to pay more for staples like different wheat types because its not that different. Different animal Furs, thats a whole industry. Mink, beaver, tiger. Treasure resources could be more prevalent. Thats a whole separate piece of feedback though

[karmic flicker]

I get what op is saying roleplay wise but the changes make sense gameplay wise. what I think they could do is maybe do like split down the middle where things like gold/tea spawn on one continent and things like horses/spices spawn on the other where they all count as treasure resources for the other side.

[olive plover]

Unless they create pairs of differently-named but same-effect resources (e.g. "gold" and "gold-equivalent"), then I would not want this. If only one half of the players on the map get access to key resource effects, e.g. gold, in their homelands, that would be terribly imbalanced for the players who do have direct access.

[light bough]

what's the confusion...?

It's basically an empire resource, plus a treasure resource.
Isn't that better than before?

Is the annoyance that the resource only spawns in a specific continent?

Note - This doesn't only apply to treasure fleet resources and is a change they've made across the board, all resources (bonus/city/empire/treasure-fleet/etc) can be tied to a single continent/hemisphere. So this feedback doesn't really have anything to do with treasure fleet resources, it's more general criticism about the tying resources to continents/hemispheres.

OR

Is this annoyance about a resource being on your own continent but appear as a "treasure resource"? Just treat it as an empire resource for your purposes. But it's useful to know that other people might view the resource with more... er.. greedy eyes.

[karmic flicker]

That’s exactly what I meant have an equivalent or duplicate effects so it doesn’t become unbalanced

[winged nacelle]

I guess you could call them Zebras (or Ponies, or Donkeys, I don't know much about horses) in in Distant lands and give them the same modifier.

[light bough]

Llamas, Wild Game
Their approach of having a random pool that gets shuffled between continents seems fine

[karmic flicker]

Gold/platinum.
green tea/black tea
Rubies/Saphires
Spices/chilis
race horses/work horses
Silver/iridum
dark chocolate/milk chocolate

[light bough]

Then what if they add the ability to have 3 distant lands, then do you need 3 versions of each?
Isn't it better to just have a big pool of random resources and the game shuffles them out each game?

Maybe there can be an option for "balanced resources" for competitive play but standard map generation should just be complete chaos

[karmic flicker]

That’s an idea for single player it doesn’t matter that much. But for multiplayer it would be necessary to have them balanced

[light bough]

I didn't realise this thread was only about multiplayer.

But even if it was, don't people play with the standard (aka not balanced) map generation in multiplayer?

Not all multiplayer is competitive multiplayer. And some people prefer higher variance and unpredictability over "fairness". So yeh sure "balanced mode" should address the concerns then that seems fair I guess

[winged nacelle]

Caramel as the alternate for Chocolate 😉 I thought what this is about is immersion? Having Gold/Platinum/Rhodium/Iridium resources with the same effect but only having one in a land.

[light bough]

Why do they need to have the same effect? Zzzzz

Part of each landmasses identity should be the unique resources they have. And they should be truly unique not just reskins

[winged nacelle]

I don't disagree. I see it as two different things: Improve immersion of Treasure Resources by making them appear different, and have a gameplay options where each land(s) have resources with unique effects.

[real sedge]

so you’re ruining in-game immersion for FUTURE balance in a mode that most civ players don’t even play? cool. Everyone here except talsorn is missing the point; there were unique resources in real world history, and since that’s what this game tried to mimic, it should have done it accurately. There’s no reason the devs couldn’t have made different resources distant lands resources depending on the continent. If you can’t find a way to balance it properly then that’s your fault for shoe-horning the distant lands mechanic in. No one here can convince me it makes logical sense for your citizens to be ecstatic for the same resources you already have no matter how many unfriendly reactions I get. “Oh just imagine it’s a completely different type of fancy horse even though it looks the exact same and does the exact same thing!” Super genuine discussion happening on this discord.

No wonder this game is tanking fast, devs in denial

[light bough]

For what it's worth I think the current implementation is an improvement. Vs before when treasure resources could only appear in distant lands.

Maybe they should just not have horses as a Treasure resource if only seeing that resource on one landmass is so jarring?
But honestly I don't really care about that. As long as each landmass gets a different set of resources and the are each unique, but just reskins of each other (except maybe a common set of resources that can appear everywhere), I'm happy. (In other words I'm fairly happy with the current implementation 😂 )

[fast flame]

You understand there are lots of abstractions in this game. We don’t have to feed troops for example. Surely that should RUIN!!! immersion too? It’s one of the abstractions… sure in future maybe it would be cool to have different graphics for horses in different continents/lands. but I would far prefer getting the gameplay content now, since doing that would take a lot of work and time. Horses in particular would suck if they were limited to one continent, since it would kill anyone on that continent’s ability to play civs with unique cavalry like the Norman’s/mongolians or Bulgarians.

[tropic viper]

If no one can convince you then not much point trying? 🙂 Each to their own Everyones got there headcanon its all good

Also me and e-shock aren't devs, so not sure why your pointing any blame at us?

Downvotes aren't unfriendly - it's how the forum works, thumbs up for agree etc, so your maybe reading too much into that

[winged nacelle]

Some good ideas in this discussion even if a wet blanket was thrown on it.

[karmic flicker]

Hit the nail on the head

[bitter elbow]

i don't think it's necessary to make treasure resources continent-specific for historical accuracy. none of the important metals or gems were unique to the New World. the Old World just wanted more and saw colonization as a way to get more for less. the game is modeling the colonization and wealth extraction, and you don't need unique resources for that, the real world sure doesn't.

[light bough]

I think it's doing 2 things:

• gives each continent its own flavour by highlighting different resources.
• allow the game to be binary in what treasure resources are online for you and what are offline (act as empire resources). Surely it's tidier doing this at a resource level than individually checking this for each resource on the map.

[bitter elbow]

i'm honestly confused by your response. are you saying that's how the game works now, or are you saying that's what the suggestions would accomplish? the first is only partly true, and i disagree with the second.

• the game already works like that for some resources but not all of them. making all resources regional is ahistorical, and that's not a flavor i want
• no, that's not tidier at all. the game already needs to check whether the resource is coming from Distant Lands, and it's easiest to get that information directly from the map. getting it indirectly through the resource type is more complex and much less flexible

[light bough]

Good points, I think I'm being to dogmatic about it. I withdraw my foolish statements.

You're right, SOME resources being continent specific is interesting but not all, and not even all treasure resources (eg horses spawning anywhere)

[fast flame]

It could be interesting as a map setting in future to have “balanced” vs “standard” continents. So you could have the immersive experience of one lands not having horses/camels but having llamas. But I do think it would rely on the AI being smarter in how they pick civs, since yeah a Mongolia or Norman player on a horseless continent would be very sad.