We should still get points for conquering settlements on homeland for Exploration

[grizzled ice]

I don't like how we are restricted to conquering distant land settlements for the military path in exploration. It could look like something like this as an example:

+1 point for conquering on homelands (this could be +2 or more if playing as Mongolia)
+2 points for settling on distant lands
+3 points for conquering settlements on distant lands
+4 points for conquering homeland settlements converted to your religion
+5 points for conquering distant land settlements converted to your religion

[deep mortar]

That would make an already easy legacy path trivial. Highly disagree.

[void iris]

I am interested in this as well, I would propose to keep with theme .5 for homelands, 1 for homeland with ocean access.. and increase the points needed for this path. The goal should be you can at least get to the first milestone without having to be on distant lands.

[grizzled ice]

That's fair

[deep mortar]

I do not mind having some civs be able to play with the victory conditions this way like Mongolia

[pure zealot]

The problem I see with giving military legacy points for simply conquering settlements on homeland is it negates anything special or unique about the exploration age. You still need to have something specific to the age to make it stand out, which right now is the focus on the distant lands. So while I do agree that there should still be some way for a purely homeland civ to gain military legacy, there needs to be some additional condition added on to grant legacy points.

This is where I think another element unique to the exploration age can be brought in, and that's religion. You already get extra military legacy points for converting cities in the distant lands. So a condition could be maybe +1 legacy point for conquering plus converting a settlement in the homelands. This way, there's a bit more incentive to spread your religion to your homeland neighbors not just for gaining relics. It would also model some historical periods tied with the exploration age, like the Crusades, the Islamic expansion into West Africa, and the religious mixing in Southeast Asia during the time.

A small bonus like +1 also keeps the main incentive of the age on settling and colonizing the distant lands, and having the converting condition maintains the more unique ability of the Mongols for just going on a conquest spree in the homelands without other conditions.

[deep mortar]

Big +1 to this

[tall bough]

I get this logic from a gameplay balance point of view, but from a viewpoint of 'what would my empire do?', taking nearby land would be absolutely something that military expansionists would want to do.

I dont have a solution in terms of game balance, i think firaxis have made it tricky in that regard, but having a pure focus on distant lands is a bit weird.

[deep mortar]

You would likely have to increase the number of points required for the path that way you can’t simply win by settling/conquering the home continent. But if we let that happen for victory purposes, then it’s not much different than the Antiquity or Modern paths, so having that variety is helpful from keeping the game from being stale (and wanting 20 points as an example with 1 per city for the “homeland only” expansionists may feel tedious)

[tall bough]

Perhaps only the conquering of a city/capital can yield points (+1/+2) and settling doesn't yield points unless its distant lands. Yeah i dont know the balance but it doesn't quite feel right.

[pure zealot]

the pure expansion and conquest legacy is already the antiquity military legacy though, for other ages there needs to be something to tie it specifically to that age. For expanding in distant lands that's already enough incentive, and even for "what would my empire do" during the age of exploration, conquering the Americas or the spice islands was very much that. For the homelands though, in the exploration age religion is the other big mechanic specific to the age so tying the conquest to religion helps keep it thematically on point and still ties in with "what would my empire do" since religion was a big motivating factor for a lot of expansion in the historical period the exploration age represents

much like how in the modern age, the motivating factor for military conquest is ideology

[cosmic fiber]

I put separate feedback in another thread, but I like the distant lands mechanic, but I don’t like how settler-focused the Exploration military legacy is. My ideal path would give some points for early warfare, but heavily encourage conquering distant lands to complete (Mongols notwithstanding). I recommended just swapping the 1 point for settling distant lands with 1 point for conquering homeland. (2 points for Mongols).

My issue right now is that a lot of the early military units of the Exploration age are kind of redundant, because you can’t really move an army to distant lands until Shipbuilding 2. It makes the Exploration and Military legacies feel too similar where the ideal start is to start settling the islands then work to shipbuilding to get to the other continent.

IMHO, the ideal gameplay from the Exploration military legacy would start with land-based castle warfare and early naval combat, then transition to fighting in distant lands. Right now it just feels like nothing happens then it skips to the second part.

[tall bough]

I get your point - really I do. Especially from a game balance point of view. It’s just the game doesn’t do a very good job of explaining why I, John Conqueror, should only care about distant lands.