#Age Pacing tweaks

16 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

low nova
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So after playing a few games and also having read a few of the feedback threads. I wanted to give some feed back on the Age system. Specifically its pacing.

I will preface this is based on the following assumption about the design ethos behind the Age system:

  • To provide system by which the players get to rise through a feeling of growth and dominance before a decline caused by a series of crisis' that lead to the inevitable collapse of society
  • To provide a means by which the game is broken into more manageable chunks

With that assumption in mind I make the following observation:

  • The current Ages pacing and duration are not managed such that all players feel like their civilization is on the brink of collapse by the end of the Age. For the player leading they are often in a position where they are reducing their success in one victory condition such that they can achieve others without driving the Age forward. As such when the Age ends players can be left feeling like it was an arbitrary point, rather than having spent several turns fighting to avoid drowning as their Civ collapses. I felt the best in my first Antiquity age end when the Crisis began to pile up with massive happiness penalties, and cities were in open revolt. Then the Age transition hit and it felt right to move on as a culture.

  • Ending an Age having seen only 1 Crisis policy is intensly jarringly weird

  • A lot of people appear to play Civ in an entirely non competitive fashion, where the aim isn't to "Win" but just to vibe.

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As such I propose the following changes:

  • Age progress is only forwarded based on the Number of active crisis' policies (which could be configurable but default at around 5/6

  • All current items that would move forward the Age progress (including turn number) instead increase the Crisis level (as Civs advance and expand their civs begin to buckle under the weight ala Rome etc)

  • All crisis policies should be clear they are a Strategy for coping with the Crisis and narrative events can be used to provide a better backdrop on the Crisis' impact (In some cases the Crisis policy cards felt like they were the crisis rather than attempts to work on a mitigation strategy)

  • Crisis should not be mitigatable entirely with a specific strategy (Ignoring Happiness penalties, not having city states etc) though I am ok with things being "reduced a small amount". The idea here is that all players should feel the pressure of the Crisis not merely go "Eh it doesn't affect me". The Crisis should feel like an attempt to stay ahead, not a thing to ignore.

wary wedge
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I want to second the idea that the age transitions are far too abrupt and jarring. I would like a system where the user can decide when they’re done in an age - for example, if I want to finish an ancient age wonder, why can’t I stay even if the age counter is at 100%? The mechanics of the game are promising but the age system is far too forced and ruins the sandbox element of the game.

low nova
# wary wedge I want to second the idea that the age transitions are far too abrupt and jarrin...

So I specifically do not propose that the Player can "choose" when to end the age. The purpose of the Crisis/Age system is that you as Leader might want 1 more turn. but your civilization has collapsed. Your glory days of monument building are over and your people are storming the capital

Its the end of Rome, the slow decline of the british empire, its a revolution.

I get for many this ruins the sandbox nature of the game that they played for, but removing it effectively removes the core componen of the Age system and as such feels like it is a different game. I am not proposing that that change occurs, I am trying to work on a change that feels like it works within the intended design rather than going "I don't like it make it optional"

grand yoke
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Are you playing age length standard or long?

low nova
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As such my proposal is basically that Crisis ramp up constatly getting worse and worse and that the Age transition is based on a predictable number of these policies

low nova
# grand yoke Are you playing age length standard or long?

Standard, though a shorter version would be nice.

My primary issue is that a victory condition effectively ends the Age regardless of the current crisis level. These two should be tied together, specifically as the Age transitions justification is the crisis situation.

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Oo there is an Abbreviated speed, I should try that

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Mostly I want to feel on the back foot when the Age ends, not in the midst of successful conquest, or standing Culturally dominant thats fine for the final age, but not the intermediate ones

low nova
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Would be interested on others thoughts on how the pacing of the Age system works without just trying to turn it off entirely

glacial jacinth
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Greetings,

I've played and finished some games now, and I feel the ages are finishing too soon overall. Even on 'long' age speed.

The only games where I was able to research everything I wished (or even every tech and civic with masteries) was on games where I tried the 'online' and 'quick' game speed.

I enjoy playing slowly most of the times, and I feel I don't have much playtime with my civ at its 'peak' or at 'crisis' when I tried either 'standard', 'epic' and 'marathon' game speed.

For instance, I had this save on marathon, with Xerxes and Persia, where I was mostly focusing on conquest, was not really trying to develop much science and culture at all, the AI was still behind me and still the age was finished way too soon.

I've tried both the 'standard' and 'long' age pacing options but in my experience for 'long' speed, Ages are ending in 80~90 turns on online speed, 100ish turns on standard, and around 120 turns on marathon.

I have this save where I finished the game (on marathon), and in the Antiquity age I reached around half of the tech/civic trees, was not able to build everything I planned on cities. Exploration and modern age was a bit better 'tho, but still, my aircraft carrier commander didn't get any fighting action before the game was finished xD.

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Honestly, this is the issue that bugs me most, and I would like to see some tweaks in it soon, I believe most of the bugs will be fixed and missing features will come eventually.

low nova
# glacial jacinth Greetings, I've played and finished some games now, and I feel the ages are fi...

OOI what was causing the Age to end? Was it turns or hitting a victory condition?

I personally don't mind the Age finishing before I have a chance to do everything, that feels thematic and intended. What I dislike is that the Age ends without feeling like I have reached some sort of Civilisation ending situation. Its always because i get a victory condition and that triggers Age end, so I feel in my accendency rather than decline

glacial jacinth
low nova
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IMO it shouldn't because that feels weird and jarring. I can see why they did it from a game mechanic perspective (In competative it lets players rush the Age progress as a tactic against opponents) but I feel it should instead increase a crisis or just give them more points for the next age etc