📚marathon-lore-discussion

[stiff hearth]

Vulcan literally tells us to our face

[earnest hatch]

Vulcan could easily be lying.

[latent python]

They did arrive on the UESC Marathon, makes sense that they feel they have jurisdiction

[stiff hearth]

and again, considering that we discovered that they are funding the UESC operation out here I am inclined to believe them

[dreamy hawk]

Also laws are suggestions to Traxus. Traxus is easily as powerful as the UESC -- they choose to be partners, even if their goals don't align.

All of the corps are "too big to govern." They have paramilitary forces and enforce their own corporate laws in their holdings.

UESC could force its will on them, but that's not going to be a free action by any stretch of the imagination.

CyAc could just, turn their terminals off.

[stiff hearth]

why bother though we are an asset that is physically trapped and unable to just walk away from this deal. We are forever indentured to serve these multiple corporations. Why would they bother lying to us if they told us something and it became a problem they would just snip out the memory of them telling you, but they don’t need to waste energy lying to you. You’re not worth the energy of lying.

[forest gate]

They could be but I don’t get that vibe from Traxus. They’re so powerful they don’t need to obfuscate stuff. Orion is practically told in no uncertain terms not to mess with Traxus by his superior.

[latent python]

My predictions/wishcasts for future storylines: Equanimity arrives. UESC feels like it's in charge now, starts overplaying its hand. UESC fucks...something up and every other faction declares open season on the UESC. For runners, it's a Tuesday

[dense tendon]

like jurisdiction doesnt matter when the crime is murder. we're bein paid by the corpos to murder the UESC tryna jack their shit. that's still murder. cuz we have no authority to kill these people righteously. this isnt a war, this is a cavalcade of thieves shanking each other over who gets the loot.

[stiff hearth]

i want the pfhor to return

[earnest hatch]

Because it’s not a bother to them. It’s easy to do and it creates a “paper trail” of deniability. There’s also the fact that they lie in their own favor just out of habit, so there’s not slip ups.

[stiff hearth]

except the uesc are all bots

[latent python]

Fortunately the UESC are bots, we're not murdering anything, just uhhhh mass property damage and theft

[stiff hearth]

what murder lmao

we have not encountered a living flesh and blood human being at all

AT ALL

[latent python]

RIP Song

[dense tendon]

theres also reason to believe that the corpos modify our memories between runs, going by some load in comments ONI makes. i dont think we can trust the shit they say to us to have been actually what they say to us, at least in its entirety.

[forest gate]

Taps plays in the background

[earnest hatch]

Our very first interactions with Traxus shows that they have no problem skirting the law or finding verbal/legal loopholes to see things their way. Claiming ownership of Tau Ceti could just be another “well we technically own it because of specific contractual language”.

[stiff hearth]

exactly

that’s all that matters though

to a corpo ai what else would matter

Vulcan does not gaf

[dreamy hawk]

They built the Marathon, therefore, they own it.

But Traxus is also funding the UESC endeavors on Tau Ceti IV.

[stiff hearth]

it’s a mess lol

an utter mess

[dreamy hawk]

They're playing a lot of angles.

[latent python]

Did they get paid to build the Marathon? Mmmmaybe

[earnest hatch]

Well, finding loopholes in legal contracts to justify their actions does count as giving a f*. If they truly DAF then they wouldn’t bother doing that.

[forest gate]

It’s like in the real world, technically corporations don’t run the government but they can lobby to get what they want done.

Because they have outsized influence

[stiff hearth]

no, you misunderstand what I’m saying but I mean that they don’t care about is anything that’s not related to their contractual agreement

[earnest hatch]

Just because Apple built my iPhone doesn’t mean the own it. Just because Ford built my car doesn’t mean they own it. Just because Lockheed Martin builds some military equipment for the USA doesn’t mean they own it and not the US military.

[stiff hearth]

sure it’s probably like a single line in a 20,000 page agreement but they have a thing that says they own it and they will bring that up as their reasoning and they don’t care about anything else because they have paperwork that says so

[dreamy hawk]

But unlike the real world it's not even lobbying, now, it's a direct line from the CEO to the president and they're conspiring on policy.

[dreamy hawk]

Nawh. Traxus disagrees.

[dense tendon]

the "bots" are remote controlled. that much is clear. its unclear whether its by people or some form of AI. if its people, weve encountered living people, jus not in person. if its AI, then wed be smackin something "living" "dead." plus i mean, do you think paying someone to destroy someone elses property to recover your own is legal, either?

[forest gate]

This is cyberpunk in a nutshell

[stiff hearth]

except they kind of do because people get in trouble for doing things like jailbreaking and modifying their iPhones as well as their gaming consoles, etc. etc. this argument is weak

[dreamy hawk]

Marathon is very Cyberpunk.

[forest gate]

Indeed

[stiff hearth]

considering Traxus is paying for each of those robots, I don’t think it matters as much as you think it does. This is all kinds of like triple layered espionage stuff.

[latent python]

And also the CEO's deniable assets are destroying the president's robots but they never actually confront each other about that because it would be far too gauche

[dreamy hawk]

It's not that weak; once I buy the device apple can't compel me to give it back to them. There's nuances to modifying IP and what not, but they don't retain ownership.

I was being facetious about Traxus owning the Marathon.

But that is how they view it.

[forest gate]

I believe recruits are autonomous and Troopers, Scouts and CMDRs are driven by some type of pilots

[dense tendon]

if runners get a sekgen body that can do the horizontal tango, is that a nutshell?

[dreamy hawk]

But they arguably have an angle because of how much funding they also provided, iirc. UESC was more the glue that held the endeavor together.

[stiff hearth]

yet. instead, they just introduce updates that slowly kill your battery so you’re forced to update.

[earnest hatch]

It’s not weak. Tell me when the US military got in trouble for modifying equipment the bought from a contractor. Tell me when anyone got in trouble for fixing ther Ford. Your “etc. Etc.” Is doing A LOT of heavy lifting, lol.

[latent python]

Might be more direct arms of Cerberus too

[dreamy hawk]

They're all driven by Cerberus.

[forest gate]

It’s nutting in a shell

[dense tendon]

no its the shell that nuts

[median hemlock]

Look up "right to repair movement"

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah, but you get to keep the all the plastic and metal. I understand your argument; I just don't entirely agree that they meaningfully retain "ownership."

[dense tendon]

buying shit from a company and using it against them =/= the company paid for the shit, tf?

[stiff hearth]

literally this

[forest gate]

I’m saying they could probably only tango with other shells because of the superman problem

[earnest hatch]

I don’t need to, I know what it is. And it’s not relevant to what I said unfortunately.

[median hemlock]

...sure

[stiff hearth]

like I have mentioned multiple times there are logs within the Cryo archive that explicitly revealed that they are funding the UESC

[latent python]

I don't really know what we're arguing about

[earnest hatch]

Nothing that matters.

[dreamy hawk]

Wether or not Durandal puts his pants on one leg at a time or both.

[stiff hearth]

this isn’t some theory it is what they are doing

WHY? Who knows

[forest gate]

Bold of you to assume he wears pants and not a kilt

[dense tendon]

ngl if it was thief, vandal, recon or assassin thatd be a price id be more than willing to pay

[median hemlock]

it'd be nice if people could say "what does that have to do with this topic" instead of "no, you're wrong and nothing you said is relevant or important"

[stiff hearth]

just block him

[forest gate]

[latent python]

It makes a lot of sense that UESC and NuCal and Traxus are extremely motivated to make claims on New Cascadia, no matter how justified we think those claims are. It's kind of the whole story. Is that what we're arguing about?

[stiff hearth]

idk anymore

“it’s not legal” none of this is but stop treating UESC like they are in the right

no one is

that’s the god damned point

[forest gate]

Btw the patch notes are out

[dense tendon]

its a massive leap to take a source of funding for the organization as a whole and say that means the source owns everything the organization does.
"my tax dollars pay for your salary, pig" at a traffic stop sovereign citizen ass argument.

[latent python]

Like you don't have to buy that Traxus has a legal claim to Cascadia to recognize that they are trying to make a claim on Cascadia, right?

[stiff hearth]

your arguments are asinine and I’m just blocking you and moving on. Have a good day.

[dense tendon]

me when im arguing with myself cuz im stupid

[stiff hearth]

read the codex

[plucky sierra]

I left for like 10 minutes and the discussion devolved into this again

[stiff hearth]

maybe do any research maybe get your butt into Cryo so you can figure it out

[dense tendon]

bro jus fuckin started off by sayim the corpos had proper authority to do what theyre doin and now hes blamin me for making the same argument hes backpedalling to

[plucky sierra]

Who needs to go into Cryo when https://codex.cyberacme.systems/ exists

[earnest hatch]

No, not literally this. Right to repair doesn’t prove your point, it supports mine. 90% of products that are made by one person and bought by another are owned by the end user. That’s a major part of why the right to repair movement exists, because they’re saying Apple doesn’t own the object once it’s sold, the customer does.

[stiff hearth]

stop talking to me

[dense tendon]

ill stop bein annoyed in a few minutes but he'll be a dumbass forever.

[dreamy hawk]

Me thinks it's probably just a good time to call this conversation a wash, dust ourselves off, and move on. This is becoming widly unproductive.

[stiff hearth]

lmao okay buddy

[dense tendon]

public discord.

block or leave if yaint wanna use it.

[drifting mulch]

guys please

[plucky sierra]

you can't block a bunch of people because they disagree? lets not be #🗣marathon-general-chat and have civilized discussion please

[stiff hearth]

actually, I’m gonna block whoever tf i want lmao

[earnest hatch]

😂

[drifting mulch]

we can be nice to each other

[dense tendon]

then do it and stop bitchin, god

[plucky sierra]

apparently we can't

[forest gate]

Why can’t we be friends? Why can’t we be friends?

[plucky sierra]

apparently if we disagree we have to start a blood feud

[dreamy hawk]

Why are people getting riled up in a lore chat? Kindly take a break if you're getting frustrated with someone.

[forest gate]

They are in Arachne so you know it’s on brand

[stiff hearth]

[latent python]

I wish I could make the final argument of whether Traxus' legal claims are justified but I haven't gotten my degree in 29th century space law yet

[earnest hatch]

Most people are being nice. But one person is getting angry because people are bringing up valid points of disagreement.

[dreamy hawk]

Get good. 🤷

[lunar cove]

Just to clarify one point: The corpos obviously don't run the UESC but there's a meeting transcript between Traxus and the General running the Tau Ceti mission where they talk about how Traxus is directly helping fund the recovery mission. They really are paying Orion's salary

[forest gate]

Hit’em when they’re down oof

[dreamy hawk]

Always. I carry pocket salt to throw in their eyes, too.

[plucky sierra]

its a rookie mistake, but you don't actually need to know things here, you can say whatever you want as fact

[latent python]

29th century space student loans are no joke

[earnest hatch]

In that case, Traxus is the actual government. Corpocracy.

[lunar cove]

Traxus basically lays out that the price of their continued funding is the UESC not looking too deeply into who's hiring the illegal runners

[dreamy hawk]

With infaltion a quarter costs what, a billion credits?

[plucky sierra]

basically the lore explanation for seasonal wipes

[dense tendon]

"hey guys, im gonna call you stupid and insult you repeatedly, then get pissy when you dont like that, why are you so mean and hostile"

[dreamy hawk]

This is what I do and somehow people talk to me.

[lunar cove]

They accept the UESC blocking their salvage as long as the UESC accepts them fucking around with runners on the fringes

[forest gate]

I hear they digitise your mind and make you a debt slave who has to do dangerous missions on far away planets if you can’t pay.

[dreamy hawk]

Move. On. 🙂 All of you. If you need me to ping you so you know I'm talking to you I can, but move on. 🙂

[latent python]

Urban legends, surely

[austere elk]

at least they're finally getting a job for their degree, kinda

[latent python]

How many runners do you think were space philosophy majors

[lime lagoon]

Whats up with the anomaly? Ik this is out of the current converaation, but im assuming its because of the w’rkncacnter right? Or is the planet itself a living breathing thing, theres no videos on it and i havent gotten good enough to get all the codex stuff about if

[lunar cove]

I would say Traxus has outsized power but knows they can only push so far (but will absolutely push to the very edge of what they can get away with)

[forest gate]

That’s what they want you think

[dreamy hawk]

You are a smart person for assuming this, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[lunar cove]

We don't know yet, just speculation

[lime lagoon]

Is this a dogged on take? Mb lol

[earnest hatch]

This does bring up an interesting question. The runners have to be getting printed somewhere in orbit, right? So why doesn’t Orion just find the ship that’s doing it and blow it up or lock it down or whatever? (I mean before he gets his marching orders from Traxus.)

[dreamy hawk]

But truthfully it's a huge are for speculation. I think we commonly agree that TCIV is no entirely natural and that there's Jjaro shenangians at play.

[stiff hearth]

it certainly seems lovecraftian which is not what jjaro tech does so it feels like a wrk

[austere elk]

not entirely natural and that there's Jjaro shenangians at play is 85% of Marathon

[forest gate]

The wrk’canter shills always trying to dominate the lore theories

[dreamy hawk]

The w'rk theory is generally commonly argued against, now, but I'm stubborn and will hold on to it even if I'm no longer super convinced.

[plucky sierra]

umm

[lime lagoon]

Interesting, interesting

[dense tendon]

they might but heres the thing. your boss pays your salary. you use your salary to pay your car payments. does your boss own your car? thats what he was sayin about traxus payin for the uesc bots.

[dreamy hawk]

Big W'rk pays big dollars.

[latent python]

would LOVECRAFT talk to BILL CLINTON

[forest gate]

Shady

[dreamy hawk]

tl'dr a w'rk is unvierse ending; opening that can of worms would be kinda a big narrative dead end.

[stiff hearth]

Jjaro tech is mostly bioengineering and cybertech not turning people insane with whispers and exploding them into colors like the color form outer space

[forest gate]

Bubba don’t play with no squid

[earnest hatch]

No. Bill Clinton liked jazz.

[dreamy hawk]

Either you fix it and it goes away, or you don't, and the game ends. Either way the anomaly stops being interesting at that point.

Even if I think w'rks are cool. >.>

[plucky sierra]

W'rk	Jjaro

3     |     3     

------|--------

[stiff hearth]

I mean, they’re also probably the most important plot point of every marathon game so yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s involved here too

[lunar cove]

Lovecraft would NOT speak with Billy because Billy is part IRISH

[austere elk]

wildly discounting the fact that time fuckery is in play and that the anomaly wouldn't likely to be ever actually resolved.

[stiff hearth]

assuming there would be not wrk is silly

[dreamy hawk]

I literally just lol'd in a quiet conference hall. Thanks for that.

[forest gate]

The deep cut

[plucky sierra]

everyone needs to send me their prediction so this can be accurate

[stiff hearth]

but it feels like everyone’s just assuming that the whole point is that to make it wake up and then we fight it like a boss and I’m more concerned about maintaining the tech to keep it asleep, which would be more interesting in my opinion and could be played out over multiple stages

[lime lagoon]

Hopefully they find a way yo make it not just straight up be the w’rk, but i would like for the lore to develop eventually to one of the corps discovering it(arachne maybe?) and just having its existence be somewhat known to sol

[austere elk]

w'rk

[forest gate]

Can there be a third for some yet unknown third ancient space thingy?

[stiff hearth]

w’rk

[austere elk]

no, pick a lane

[earnest hatch]

The Jjaro could manipulate time, contain supernovas with gravitational fields, and teleport entire moons across the galaxy.

[dreamy hawk]

I think that could be a way through, less directly dealing with the w'rk and more with the infrastructure surrounding it.

[stiff hearth]

exactly

[latent python]

I still want to know who pthia is

[dreamy hawk]

No fence sitters allowed.

[forest gate]

I shall do no such thing, I choose the third option sir!

[plucky sierra]

W'rk	Jjaro	UNK

4     |     3      |    1

------|-------|--------

[dreamy hawk]

Space mommy.

[latent python]

Pthia = Nona

[stiff hearth]

everyone seems to assume that it’s going to just be oh we’re going to fight it like we’re fighting Riven the whole point is you don’t want it to wake up so everything would be focused on keeping it asleep while it seems like the UESC could possibly want the opposite

[latent python]

Understood

[forest gate]

Don’t do Pthia dirty like that

[dreamy hawk]

I can't imagine them being that stupid, but maybe in a 343 Guilty Spark kinda way.

[earnest hatch]

The Wrks? They are not the most important plot point in every marathon game. They don’t even get mentioned in the first one. The Jjaro play a much bigger role in all the Marathon games.

[dense tendon]

bill clinton had heart problems during his presidency cuz of his love of soul food. he played the jazz sax. got in trouble for cheating on his wife with a white woman at work.
he was our first black president. hp lovecraft hated minorities. doubt ol howie'd get along with the bill.

[austere elk]

lmao

[dreamy hawk]

I don't feel like I'm allowed to laugh as hard as I did.

[austere elk]

he didn't hate them, dude was terrified of them as an aside. dude was terrified of a lot of shit

[dense tendon]

to be clear, im mixed. that was a joke.

[lunar cove]

In the Pathways universe it could have been Ross Perot

[latent python]

Okay so we all agree Lovecraft wouldn't be afraid of Ross Perot though right

[forest gate]

I read this as Rosa Parks for a second

[dreamy hawk]

Oh you're good. I'm not, which is why I felt bad. You can't get much whiter than me without inbreeding.

[dense tendon]

very true, and he did in fact mellow out towards the end. but that also makes my joke worse so i pretend i do not know it

[austere elk]

truly

[lunar cove]

Perot was FRENCH so HP Sauce would have been scared of him too

[dreamy hawk]

Slective ignorance is great.

[dense tendon]

excellent tool for comedy

[latent python]

Selective ignorance? Like what we know Lovecraft would've named Bingus?

[austere elk]

well he didn't even name that cat

not that I think he minded the name

[dense tendon]

his parents did and he loved that cat fiercely.

[latent python]

Yes, none of us mind the name Bingus

[forest gate]

It is one the names that a cat could potentially be named for sure.

[dense tendon]

i can assure you, in that instance, bro was using the word affectionately.

[dreamy hawk]

My partner's cat's nickname is Bingus. 🙂

[lunar cove]

HP Lovecraft when DPS lovecraft walks in

[dense tendon]

hell, i call my cat a fat, stinky, stupid bastard all the time but its entirely out of love and meant affectionately.
shes my fat, stinky, stupid bastard. i love that shes a fat, stinky, stupid bastard. jus cat owner things.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I verbally abuse my cats, constantly, before affectionately dotting on them.

Horrible little cratures.

[plucky sierra]

I do not like cats

[latent python]

Do you like Bingus

[dense tendon]

yeah they're like keeping a homeless druggie in your house as a pet. its great.

[dreamy hawk]

I'm learning a lot about you today and I don't know how I feel about it.

(jk <3)

[dreamy hawk]

Entitled suicidal toddlers, imo, but yeah.

[plucky sierra]

depends

Bingus seems cool

but normal domestic cats contribute a lot toward the extirpation of songbirds and small mammals

and I like songbirds

[forest gate]

All the cats I’ve had over the years have been amazing. I like to refer to myself as the Meowsiah because I’m loved by all the cats I meet.

[stiff hearth]

would love a runner shell that actively used the cat as part of their kit

[latent python]

Surely we'll have a runner with a pet, right?

Er shell with a pet

I guess thief already does

[plucky sierra]

an estimated 2.4 billion birds a year is too much

[dense tendon]

as an aside from bein silly about cats i dont usually trust folk who dont like cats. cats arent like dogs, theyre idiosyncratic but independent. you have to earn their trust and affection, through respecting their boundaries. to me, being disinclined towards cats seems like an indication that its possible that attitude extends elsewhere.

[forest gate]

The circle of life

[plucky sierra]

not really

they capitalize off of their domestication and exist outside their niche because we take them everywhere

[forest gate]

Also don’t blame the cats, blame the idiot humans for taking them to places they don’t belong

[stiff hearth]

they are invasive so actively not the circle of life. esp when they aren’t even eating

[dense tendon]

brother you are gonna flip when you find out about how many cows we kill a month.

[stiff hearth]

cats kill FOR FUN

[plucky sierra]

cats kill for fun

[dreamy hawk]

Outdoor/feral cats are a scourge and should be purged.

[dense tendon]

so do we, man

[lunar cove]

I don't like cats because they destroy my sinuses and make the tissue around my eyes swell up so I have a hard time seeing

[dreamy hawk]

Indoor cats are wonderful.

[plucky sierra]

domestic cats are invasive species

[forest gate]

Humans do that too, we call it hunting

[plucky sierra]

indoor cats are tolerable and fun

[lunar cove]

I appreciate them from a distance

[dense tendon]

so are we, man

[dreamy hawk]

Have you tried being more resilient?

[stiff hearth]

yeah, and by doing that, we have driven several species extinct your point?

[plucky sierra]

you would be surprised how much hunting actually contributes towards conservation of many species

[latent python]

I do have to say I don't love people who free-range their cats, in a city especially

[plucky sierra]

depends on your definition

[latent python]

I love indoor cats

[dreamy hawk]

I feel like people pointing to hunting and human acitivites are missingthe point, though. Cats are invasive and destory their local enviornments and we've taken steps to prevent such actions from other species. Also, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

[stiff hearth]

ye

[dreamy hawk]

Just because we're trashing things doesn't mean we need to enable every other species to trash, too.

[forest gate]

Humans are the cause of a lot of the earth’s problems including cats being an invasive species

[dense tendon]

i cannot think of a single definition of humanity that doesnt fit any definition of invasive species.

[stiff hearth]

i mean yeah

lol

[latent python]

Especially on TCIV

[forest gate]

You’d be surprised by how unsurprised I would be

[plucky sierra]

Hunting generates over a billion dollars for conservation of wildlife, if cats generated billions of dollars towards song birds I might be ok with it

[dreamy hawk]

Huntig and fishing are also (generally) regulated. Murder mittens are not.

I also feel strongly about the damn rabbits running around Western WA now.

[dense tendon]

my point is that hatin cats for killing birds is silly, theyd do that with or without us, wherever they are.

[dreamy hawk]

People let out their pets and now they're devestating the local flora. Hunt. Them. All.

[forest gate]

Agent smith did call us a virus, I was inclined to agree then and nothing has happened in the decades since then that’s done much to change my mind.

[dreamy hawk]

Ahh, I'm going to push back and reference scale, here. A couple cats in their endemic enviornments killing stuff is different than them being spread out everywhere to be able to kill things.

[plucky sierra]

Human expansion is largely natural expansion to new areas and doesn't really fit traditional invasiveness. Especially since "invasive" generally means it impacts humans anyway so definitions are largely not good

[plucky sierra]

we have taken them out of their niche so they can murder on a global scale

[austere elk]

fell for the demoralization by the AI to curb humanity's right to the stars, classic blunder

[dreamy hawk]

I took a whole class once trying to define the difference between humans and the natural environment and we never got to a unified answer; I'm curious to see if chat will get there. 😆

[latent python]

Agent Smith just wanted to get to Boomer first

[dreamy hawk]

And they still don't appreciate us.

[plucky sierra]

Humans are part of the natural environment and inseparable from it

[dreamy hawk]

Even when we disagree we agree. 😍

Actually 😻 there we go.

[dense tendon]

because we invaded every ecology on the planet from our natural african origin

[forest gate]

Except we don’t live in the natural environment, we flatten it to build another Costco.

[latent python]

So did ants

[dense tendon]

like we cant unfuck this turkey, that doesnt mean the bird wasnt born a virgin

[dreamy hawk]

All species expand and modify their natural environments.

[plucky sierra]

that still permanently alters the natural environment

[dreamy hawk]

Is a beaver any less of an animal because it builds a dam?

Are humans when they build dams?

[dense tendon]

what are you even arguing anymore

[dreamy hawk]

Are birds nests natural? Or are they artificial constructs?

Birds build houses, why are human houses unnatural?

[plucky sierra]

that is natural expansion, not invasion. Invasion by all ecological definitions means a transplant of any species they would not naturally be able to reach on their own

[forest gate]

I’m just interjecting things cause I’m a bit of an anarchist

[latent python]

I think we can all agree that Cybertrucks are unnatural

[plucky sierra]

that anything we do alters the natural environment in some way

[dreamy hawk]

Actually...

Peak of natural evolution, tbh.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I forgot to reply.

[dense tendon]

humans arent invasive species when they go outside of where they originated from using the help of others to dominate in less competitive ecologies, but cats are invasive species ehen they go outside of where they originated from using the help of others to dominate in less competitive ecologies?

[latent python]

In that they lock their occupants inside and burn them to death? I guess that's an element of evolution

I suppose you could make an argument that they're some kind of exoskeleton

[forest gate]

I wonder if we’ll find any other animals on TCIV aside from the ticks and the birds

[latent python]

Carcinerization at work

[light python]

There are the lobsters

[plucky sierra]

Humans expanding as their population grew is not "invasion" by any ecological definition. any animal that reaches new areas on their own is not an invasive spcies (in a spread definition), as we have seen with bird that have flown from Africa to South America and naturalized with populations

[dreamy hawk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species

`An invasive species is an introduced species that harms its new environment.[2] Invasive species adversely affect habitats and bioregions, causing ecological, environmental, and/or economic damage. Since the 20th century, invasive species have become serious economic, social, and environmental threats worldwide.

Invasion of long-established ecosystems by organisms is a natural phenomenon, but human-facilitated introductions have greatly increased the rate, scale, and geographic range of invasion. For millennia, humans have served as both accidental and deliberate dispersal agents, beginning with their earliest migrations, accelerating in the Age of Discovery, and accelerating again with the spread of international trade.

Notable plant species that are invasive in many parts of the world include the kudzu vine (Pueraria), water hyacinth (Pontederia crassipes), common ragweed (Ambrosia artemisiifolia), and yellow starthistle (Centaurea solstitialis). Notable animal species that are invasive include European rabbits (Oryctolagus cuniculus), domestic cats (Felis catus), and red swamp crayfish (Procambarus clarkii). `

[light python]

And some kind of moths or something

[forest gate]

The cybertruck darwinism in motion.

[dreamy hawk]

Whoops didnt mean to reply, sorry Coyote.

[light python]

"introduced species" is doing the work there

[dreamy hawk]

Invasive species are typically defined by human introduction.

[latent python]

Branded SekGen moths?

[dreamy hawk]

All animals/plants/etc. naturally try to "invade" other environments, the crux is the speed at which they do, and the ability of the enviornment to respond to that.

[stiff hearth]

Spotted Lanternfly

[forest gate]

So when humans introduce themselves to a new biome, they become an invasive species?

[dreamy hawk]

`Invasive species are the subset of established non-native species that pose a threat to native species and biodiversity.[3] The term "invasive" is poorly defined and often very subjective.[4] Invasive species may be plants, animals, fungi, and microbes; some include native species that have invaded human habitats such as farms and landscapes.[5] Some broaden the term to include indigenous or "native" species that have colonized natural areas.[4] Some sources name Homo sapiens as an invasive species,[6][7] but broad appreciation of human learning capacity and their behavioral potential and plasticity may argue against any such fixed categorization.[8]

The definition of "native" can also be controversial. For example, the ancestors of modern horses (Equus ferus) evolved in North America and radiated to Eurasia before becoming extinct in North America. Their reintroduction to North America, by Spanish conquistadors, led to a 1943 debate over whether the feral horses were native or exotic to the continent of their evolutionary ancestors.[9] `

[stiff hearth]

Spotted lanternflies are also invasive and many places ask you to kill on sight lol

[plucky sierra]

"introducing themselves" - not invasive
"being introduced by another species intentionally or accidentally" - invasive in spread

[stiff hearth]

but i wonder

[light python]

Arachne guy excited about kill-on-sight orders: why is this game so full of good role playing?

[dreamy hawk]

Is it semantics? Yes, but that's how defintions and words work.

[stiff hearth]

How does this relate to Marathon Lore at this point?

[dreamy hawk]

It doesn't. We were talking about cats. 😆

[forest gate]

Semantics imo. We get to define the terms as the dominant species on the planet.

[light python]

The moths I was talking about are in the environment in New Cascadia

[latent python]

Don't worry we haven't been talking about lore for a while

[lunar cove]

We should designate an island or something and introduce all the invasive species there and let them all fight it out for ten million years and then reintroduce them to the rest of the world as the new dominant species

[plucky sierra]

Humans introduced a significant amount of species to Tau Ceti IV that are likely invasive or have that potential https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/shrink-wrapped-bonsai?search=Bonsai

[austere elk]

there's already two dominat species

humanity and orcas

[latent python]

Wait, could Bingus start killing the birds

[light python]

If by "semantics" you mean "the entire point of this conversation is about meaning and thus this is contributory" then yes, semantics.

[forest gate]

The sea is contiguous

[lunar cove]

We should let kudzu fight the other plants and if it wins, that's the globe now

[austere elk]

hopefully, loud fucking things

[light python]

If by "semantics" you mean "I dismiss your point because it's about the meanings of words" what are you doing here my man

[stiff hearth]

they haven’t even gotten to the cows yet. Still on ice in outpost. I do wonder if they’re just normal cows or if they’re all weird and NuCal branded

[latent python]

Good news!

[forest gate]

Also you just have to look in their direction for them to get spooked

[austere elk]

I want to see a pink and white nucal cow

[light python]

The cryo cows thing is super weird.

Why did they land them? Maybe they were stored in the pinwheel up on the ship?

[plucky sierra]

but semantics are important, birds are easily able to spread naturally while things like plants cannot. Also the spread (how it was introduced) is not always important because "invasive" also largely implies negative impact so there can be some "native invasives" in that regard

[austere elk]

they're not landed, what?

[light python]

It's clearly not cow time out here, colonists are still wearing env suits

[stiff hearth]

well, they were eventually going to introduce them, but apparently the biosphere of this planet doesn’t support megafauna yet

like there are no scavengers

[light python]

They super are "landed" as in we see them in outpost, not on the Marathon

[dense tendon]

brother my entire pushback here is this argument is overvaluing some stupid birds jus cuz they make pretty sounds and you dont like to think about the various other things also eating and killing the birds so you jus blame the one species that youve decided is only killing them out of our decision to "domesticate" them, which is like, really not how cats work. they are aggressively not domesticated. a stray cat and a housecat are both capable of being feral assholes or loving companions to the human who puts them in its house, the only difference is a matter establishing trust between that individual cat and individual human.
cant do that shit with wolves, man. and yes, that is comparable, cuz big cats are almost exactly the same psychologically as housecats.
point is, this is contrarian exceptionalism predicated on emotional reasoning rather than anything logical.

[stiff hearth]

no bacteria to break down waste or bodies

[austere elk]

I don't remember seeing any cows in outpost

[dreamy hawk]

Weren't we having a semantic discussion? Get outta here, anarchist. 😘

[forest gate]

Who pissed in your cup?

[latent python]

All the colonists wondering when cow time will be

[stiff hearth]

so you can’t just add in a bunch of pooping cows lol

[light python]

The original Marathon manual refers to some kind of creature that you'd send the security officer to deal with just before the Pfhor attack

this seems to have been maybe missed by the new game entirely

[austere elk]

colonists ate them all

[plucky sierra]

A recent study by the Smithsonian Institution and the US Fish and Wildlife Service estimated that domestic cats kill about 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion small mammals each year in the lower forty-eight states.  This is far higher—and probably more accurate–than previous figures, and likely exceeds all other sources of human-related losses of these animals.  That makes it a major bird conservation concern.

Domestic Cats are the contributing factor

[dreamy hawk]

I think this was the justification in the one codex to kinda sorta just accept it. Wether or not that's correct is the conversation we've been having, but they acknowledged this would be inevitable.

[forest gate]

It’s true I don’t treat any of this discussion with any seriousness and I like to stir things for my own amusement.

[dense tendon]

tldr, cats are great, i will hear no further UESC nonsense to the contrary.

[craggy finch]

Chockisens, he apparently needed armour to deal with them

we also see the bird scavengers

[light python]

This is me cheerful, I'd just prefer you not abuse the interest of others for "for your own amusement" this is the sort of thing that media might attach the semiotics of coolness to but it is actually generally not pro-social or appreciated in real communities.

[forest gate]

I agree cats are great

[latent python]

The UESC would never try to harm Bingus, would they

[stiff hearth]

i don’t think the birds we see are scavengers

[light python]

I regret to inform you that the UESC would consider Bingus a security threat and you've seen how they react to that classification.

[dense tendon]

i dont care. if cats were the actual antichrist id be kissin the devil on his tiny little furry forehead.

[lunar cove]

The UESC is incapable of knowing about Bingus

[stiff hearth]

they come off more like herbivorous tropical birds

[latent python]

Incapable of joy

[light python]

I have often wondered if it would be possible to breed bird-murdering specifically out of cats.

[austere elk]

UESC is rather whimsyless, yes

[plucky sierra]

"overvaluing some stupid birds jus cuz they make pretty sounds" my guy do you know how ecology works? Nothing in nature is "just some stupid birds"

[stiff hearth]

or like bugs and stuff but they don’t feel like vulture-like creatures

[craggy finch]

There is a current absence of a food chain, even the ticks just attack out of self defence and its implied the contagion altered them to explode into acid

no aggressive predators

[light python]

In a given litter of kittens, there are cats that are mad for killing birds, and cats that don't care about it at all. It's not "just" prey drive either, though I don't know how coupled that is.

[stiff hearth]

yeah

and according to the logs, it seems like the ticks weren’t even really aggressive in the start, and it kind of built up overtime, probably as the contagion spread.

[craggy finch]

maybe chockisens will reappear as turbo super chockisens or something

or just went extinct

[light python]

My partner argues that tick milking caused the anomoly

[craggy finch]

New Cascadia cautioned against using Tau Ceti wildlife as food (no matter how good they taste)

[light python]

In the "Tau Gaia" theory of what the anomoly is, this makes sense.

[hallow vector]

weren't they having food trouble anyway

[forest gate]

Firstly, I do as I please and I even if I’m not invested in anything I’m at least respectful to other people in so much as I don’t demean them in anyway. I abuse nothing.

I suggest being less high strung about trivialities in a forum for discussing make belief.

[austere elk]

in the sense anything grown killed them ,yeah

[stiff hearth]

and there are logs showing that colonists were modifying liquid cheeseburger machines to add in unapproved product

[plucky sierra]

as cool as that could be I think we have a hint at the cause

[craggy finch]

yeah but that was the contagion affecting their supplies, by the time it got that bad President Caruso states that they have three years worth of reserves

[hallow vector]

sid meier's alpha centauri is that you?

[plucky sierra]

mining into perimeter to transmit planetary data

[latent python]

Yesss SMAC

Give me brain worms

[craggy finch]

related to the contagion was weird worms getting into the filters they use in farms (they smell like tamarind)

[sinful hamlet]

Modified burger ? To the firing squad

[austere elk]

they also wanted to eat those

[sinful hamlet]

Instant execution

[craggy finch]

One of the ingredient options is human shit

[stiff hearth]

fiberworms or something

[latent python]

Give me Isles of the Deep

Locusts of Chiron

[craggy finch]

I want to see more BoB representation, Song mentions them cleaning the filters and there are a couple logs from them, but all voiced characters seem to be cryo crew

[sinful hamlet]

Can’t a humble colonist enjoy their traditional burger-flavored sewage grey water ???

[plucky sierra]

Tamarind smelling worms, "Tamarind fizz drink" at the NuCaloric colony potluck. hmmm

[stiff hearth]

maybe if we go underground where they were sending them for surveys, we will find them

[craggy finch]

Tamarind Fizz sounds like someone half remembered Tangerine Dreams

[light python]

Agitating responses from others for your own amusement; sit with that. If you're "a bit of an anarchist" you're in good company. I'm not tryin'a control you, I'm trying to get you to control you.

[crisp stone]

how to fix error weasel someone pls help

[austere elk]

grey water is not sewage

[light python]

Error weasel is fixed by introducing a natural predator of weasels, such as eagles.

[dense tendon]

you can pretend you didnt straight up start this topic by explicitly stating you hate cats cuz they kill a lot of songbirds, and that you like songbirds. you can pretend the rest of the conversation in any way provided any evidence that you were concerned about the environmental second and higher order consequences of these songbirds being dead. you can do all that, youre allowed.

[crisp stone]

i hope you die

[dreamy hawk]

It's tastier.

[austere elk]

exactly

[sinful hamlet]

Hey man idk

[latent python]

Ooh a new villain

[austere elk]

you're in the lore channel the fuck you expect

[forest gate]

What is a counter point except an agitation to discussion that provokes a response.

[craggy finch]

I don't even think it was a supply emergency the supervisor just didn't give a shit

[WTIS]: Oh, nice. Premium, Select, Standard, Survival… What's Silver?

[ALOM]: Lifts restrictions but strips the NuCal branding from the package. Watch this. If you ever need to, you can shunt Silver back into an organics tank, start a new session, and then make branded product using it as an ingredient.

[WTIS]: That's… wow. That's in case of emergency?

[ALOM]: That's in case of an "I can't stare at the screen anymore" emergency, yeah.

[stiff hearth]

enjoy getting banned

[dense tendon]

you too mate have an awful one

[median hemlock]

its so exhausting explaining to people dying on the hill of I Do What I Want that doing what you want with no regard for others is like. annoying

[sinful hamlet]

Edgemarquis in lore channel man we can’t have shit on Discord

[dense tendon]

real

[light python]

That depends on intent and I think you already understand that; ironic detachment and good faith struggle to coexist. I know that "taking things seriously" entails a certain level of vulnerability but it's worth it, here.

[sinful hamlet]

Anyway about the Nuburgers

[tawny pagoda]

Theres a conversation about cats?

[latent python]

It's buried beneath weasels

[forest gate]

Fair enough!

[craggy finch]

Interestingly, a hairless Felini was tested and though it had high attachment with about 9% of the users, the vast majority of comments included keywords like "gross," "vile," and "indecent." We'll be pursuing a hypoallergenic shorthair version, since we can't realistically expect people to bond with a creature that looks like a naked little gremlin.

[light python]

And we have to do something about the eagles we introduced to deal with the weasles because they're snatching people's dogs now

[median hemlock]

I mean this genuinely and I'm not ragebaiting: imagine trying to say this to someone irl with a straight face

this is not how people interact in healthy ways

[sinful hamlet]

Bingus might get snatched by a bird out here

[light python]

Yo they came around, give 'em some credit

[median hemlock]

fair enough

its just a real bugbear of mine

[plucky sierra]

I "do not like" cats because they contribute unequally to the extinction of songbirds and small mammals. I don't really like anything contributing to the extinction of any species generally, but the impact cats have on ecosystems globally is largely ignored because they are more charismatic than many other invasive species.

[light python]

Yeah I get that, unfortunately bugbears are themselves generally maladaptive

[forest gate]

Actually if I said it IRL I would have a shit eating grin.

[light python]

Not quite as bad as owlbears but that's a whole new level of introduced species wait wrong lore

[tawny pagoda]

All I know is kitties are cute and deserve. Keep them inside for their safety. Their biggest problems with outside is 1) they destroy local ecosystems 2) their biggest predator is the Honda civic

[latent python]

I was told Toyota Hilux

[plucky sierra]

studies have shown the amount of food a cat eats does not impact how many things it kills so its clearly not for sustenance

[median hemlock]

sigh

[tawny pagoda]

Thats more on the owners and people involved though. Its like saying dogs are evil bc someones pittie mauled a kid

[light python]

Yeah I suspect IRL bandwidth suits this social style a little better in terms of nonverblal and implicit regulation/communication, though it's still not the look I choose.

[austere elk]

toyota hilux would be the natural rpedator of moon aliens once we have a base there

[sinful hamlet]

Cats aura farmed their way there whatever the little kill machines want

[stiff hearth]

lemme know when this is about marathon again

[hallow vector]

i love cats. thing about cats that i know: they don't have to be outside, killing all the birds, they can just live inside.

[light python]

Now, I know the assault rifle not working in vaccum is unrealistic, but I'm pretty sure the hilux is uh, oxygen aspirated.

[tawny pagoda]

Yes they like to play / hunt so keep them inside and entertained

[sinful hamlet]

Cats inside are safer anyway

[austere elk]

not an issue for the nuclear powered model

[dense tendon]

which is why i brought up humans doing the exact same thing but you DEMANDED that be different cuz of semantics or whatever and that blatant hypocrisy tells me this was never about the actual outcome, you jus dont like cats. which, what tf ever, but dont lie about it to seem morally justified. you dont need to, who cares?

[craggy finch]

the .44 magnum manages it so the .75 AR is just canonically a massive piece of shit

[median hemlock]

the sole vacuum level in m1 makes me angy

[latent python]

Can't wait for Nuclear Hilux

[craggy finch]

it would be awful in any other context besides a battle made up entirely of tight corridor engagements

[light python]

those same studies show that like a quarter or something of cats do like 80% of the murder

[plucky sierra]

I don't like them because their charisma makes most people ignore the impact they have. Sure it is an owner thing, but almost no one will support any type of feral cat (the ones killing) management effort because "cats are cute"

[median hemlock]

stupid fucking ship ai be like "find my switches" while I'm slowly dying

[forest gate]

There’s usually a lot more context to IRL interactions that aren’t present in online spaces.

[sinful hamlet]

So they’re just here for the game

[craggy finch]

The biggest annoyance is your oxygen meter staying at like half mast for the rest of the game because there is no other vacuum level

M1 should have been all vacuum levels

[latent python]

What if we could get the cats to play Marathon instead

[light python]

In hawaii they manage their colonies with sterilization and community efforts; it's a pressing issue there. I think when you say "feral management" you're imagining killing a lot of charismatic mammals

[craggy finch]

Arachne stocks through the roof

[sinful hamlet]

Enough Arachne recruits

[dense tendon]

how is that any different from us ignoring our species torching the planet and driving ecologies to collapse cuz "people are us"

[median hemlock]

I have never heard of a single person defending feral cats outdoors because "they're cute" but I sure have heard a lot of dog owners defending their pets lack of training, anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much here

[light python]

electric hilux, Toyota, when?

[dense tendon]

you claim our acts are natural, despite having the same and far worse ecological impacts. you deny cats are acting naturally.

[latent python]

Okay this is a time loop

[tawny pagoda]

You can say this about literally any other animal. I know someone that hates dogs in a similar way. Again its purely the owners fault as it is their responsibility, youre just hating innocent animals for no reason. How many birds die to skyscrapers and turbines? How many pigeons have been left behind after people were done with them?

[median hemlock]

Okay I'm not here to go to bat for letting feral cats roam outside this is a goofy convo

[tawny pagoda]

Do you hate all people then?

[forest gate]

Denser battery technology first I reckon

[plucky sierra]

you're getting very pressed about a minor issue, people can not like animals.
I argued humans "aren't an invasive species" (which has clear ecological definitions) I did not argue that we are not permanently and negatively impacting the natural environment

[dense tendon]

you can just dislike cats, yaint gotta pretend youre better than people who like cats.

[median hemlock]

when the lobbyists are gone idk someday

[plucky sierra]

I didn't say I was

[tawny pagoda]

Youre not disliking them, youre trying hard to "reason" about it, as if its crazy that people dont dislike cats

[light python]

I don't know, the electric F150 was not as useful as Ford hoped it would be

[plucky sierra]

I said "i don't like this animal, here is why" and y'all are acting like i said "you're stupid if you like this animal"

[tawny pagoda]

When its again on the human owners for letting their cats out

[sinful hamlet]

I like the idea of car running on water but I don’t want to have the CIA on my back

[median hemlock]

I have very little kind things to say about pickups and their manufacturers

[latent python]

That's why we gotta go nuclear

[tawny pagoda]

Youre literally treating all cats as a unique evil though

[sinful hamlet]

My chat history in here is already a liability

[hallow vector]

can y'all stop quibbling about cats

[forest gate]

Cathathon

[plucky sierra]

[dreamy hawk]

Just like they have very little kind things to say about CAFE standards. 🙁

[latent python]

Cat CAFE?

[forest gate]

Mittens Mark IV

[light python]

Is that a true statement?

[tawny pagoda]

If a car ran on water, wouldnt that cause more problems? I would assume it would have to be clean water

[plucky sierra]

the solution is "people should keep the animal inside" to me that says unless they are confined to a unnaturally small space they will try to murder

[dreamy hawk]

What would it run on? Splitting water is incredibly energy intensive.

[sinful hamlet]

Man Idk I don’t have a driver license

[light python]

I remember magazines in the 90s that were so excited about fuel cells, the tailpipe would emit pure clean water

[tawny pagoda]

Yes shocker some animals hunt

[plucky sierra]

like I don't like cats for the reasons I stated, its not a big deal

[forest gate]

Very expensive clean water, they’d have to distill it and that’s a big consumer of energy right there.

[dreamy hawk]

Don't they have a couple of cars on the road using fuel cells?

[light python]

All these writers for Scientific American or whatever just psyched to drink out of tailpipes.

[plucky sierra]

and cats have been artirficially introduced to areas they shoudln't naturally hunt in

[dreamy hawk]

Once you get past the massive bomb your lugging around I hear they're great.

[hallow vector]

ok like i know you feel like you're under attack and it's pretty justified even, but you also have the ability to just disengage, you don't have to be doing this in the marathon lore channel

[latent python]

A lot of water already comes out of tailpipes

[faint flax]

What is the point of mida?

[tawny pagoda]

By humans. My point stands

[dreamy hawk]

Also this is true. Water is a product of combustion.

You're also breathing water out, right now.

[plucky sierra]

I am well known for liking to argue (as long as it doesnt get like heated and insulting)

[lunar cove]

Disenfranchised martians lashing out at the UESC for a variety of reasons and with varied effectiveness

[forest gate]

Water vapour is a greenhouse gas so Das not gutt

[lunar cove]

In-game? It gives you a 1/6 chance the sponsored kit doesn't suck

[light python]

Felwinter hates cats, maybe more than is generally accepted as reasonable. Conclusion reached?

[faint flax]

oh.

[dreamy hawk]

Ban all water; dry out the atmosphere! Become Mars!

[sinful hamlet]

Freedom fighting bc UESC sucks (effectiveness to see)

[latent python]

Dune here we come

[dreamy hawk]

Don't make me rejoin this conversation. 😆

[forest gate]

Wait a minute why does Felwinter get a pass on liking to be argumentative meanwhile I got some kind remote therapy?? Double standards up this bish!!

[faint flax]

so basically colonists fighting England?

[light python]

I'm pretty sure it's to have someone other than the UESC interested in the Pfhor attack specifically

[dreamy hawk]

At lest that's what they say. I'm pretty sure the point of MIDA is to give the UESC a list of people to arrest.

[plucky sierra]

cats are generally assumed to have domesticated themselves in sort of a commensalist or mutualist relationship with humans

[sinful hamlet]

Yeeeeah

[lunar cove]

I hate cats because I think it miscasted Macavity

[median hemlock]

id imagine the corpos are interested, but mida is probably the only faction that cares about informing the public in sol

[hallow vector]

yeah, but if instead of some kinda unfair taxes, the english were starving them to death

[plucky sierra]

we can argue, no one can stop us as long as your generally civil

[forest gate]

Were it so easy

[dreamy hawk]

Serious answer: Debating (arguing) and trolling are not 1:1.

❤️

[faint flax]

damn.

[forest gate]

I’m never rude

[light python]

I wish we could though, this one's dead.

[sinful hamlet]

I mean we got back Mars. Idk about Tau Ceti

[tawny pagoda]

Re: Mars. UESC's failings and disregard led to Martians starving, leading to the creation of MIDA. iirc the transport system went down, so no food no resources, while the UESC was busy setting its sights on creating the Marathon, people were starving

[light python]

signal to noise is whack in here this morning

[plucky sierra]

I guess we gotta start a new one.

[forest gate]

Anyway, I got bored with invasive species discussion

[plucky sierra]

So is the anomaly a Wr'knkacnter or Jjaro?

[dreamy hawk]

Did you though? Or did you botch your three month rule and get absolutely crushed as a result?

[median hemlock]

i don't know how to convey that this is a dramatic understatement strongly enough lol

[eternal shell]

unknown!

[forest gate]

3rd option

[hallow vector]

wrk for sure. source: i dreamed it

[light python]

Look remote therapy isn't free okay, I can only subsidize one mental health intervention at a time.

[dreamy hawk]

Now you're the troll. 😆

[tawny pagoda]

More like the Irish surviving the English extremified famine

[dense tendon]

when you go on to deny the label of "outside context species that worsens the ecology" applies to both humans and cats, cite articles about cats negative impact, attempt desperately to declare youre objectively right about them being a unique evil, actively reject my earlier assertion of this objection being exactly "i dont like this animal and heres why" to double down on expressing the objective environmental outcomes of cats presence being the focus, you cant be surprised when people think youre getting buttbothered about cats being evil, nor does your backpedalling of pretending you werent doing that at all come across as genuine. take the L, you failed to justify your argument, move on. cuz like you said, none of this is a big deal at all, and like ive said, nobody cares. you dont like cats. ok. cool. we know.

[lunar cove]

It's transient, shifting like water

[light python]

OR NATURALLY OCURRING GAIA

[sinful hamlet]

No in current event Mars isnt under UESC rules now inside Mida there’s a fight between the old guard and the new guard

[light python]

Come on let's get a fourth option what else do people think it might be?

[plucky sierra]

We've moved on.

[dense tendon]

then why keep responding

[light python]

I got one: contained Pfhor attack on the colony

[hallow vector]

swamp gas (real)

[dreamy hawk]

Ah do you have something to point to? I beleive UESC still oversees Mars. There was a political party but they lost that after their coup.

[light python]

The colonists think it might be a shared delusion but that is obvious cope

Stop fist-fighting in the lore channel 2026 challenge

[sinful hamlet]

Let me check where I got this info precisely

[hallow vector]

maybe the anomaly is just like a big religious type experience

[dreamy hawk]

Appreciated. ❤️

[plucky sierra]

to tell you to move on, I ain't reading that paragraph

[hallow vector]

you see it and you're like "damn is that jesus in there?"

[latent python]

I think you mean waves

[dreamy hawk]

TIDES AND WAVES

[dense tendon]

i can tell, yaint read anything ive said yet.

[plucky sierra]

W'rk	Jjaro	UNK

5     |     3      |    3

------|-------|--------

[hallow vector]

it's the unc? da planetary unc?

[latent python]

Uncle Anomaly

[tawny pagoda]

Hold on, we might strike something !

[light python]

Strikes are a Destiny thing

[forest gate]

I’m just going to leave this alone

[sinful hamlet]

FOUND IT: “It is unknown how MIDA's operations continued back in Sol after the Marathon's departure. However, at an unknown date, Mars was formally granted independence from Earth.” From the ARG. https://www.marathonwiki.com/Lore%3AMIDA?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[dreamy hawk]

You yourself admitted to stirring the pot, that's all I'm saying. Still love you. ❤️

[dreamy hawk]

Let me see if I can find the origianl text.

[forest gate]

The time has passed.

[sinful hamlet]

Yeah it’s from the ARG but actually it could be still UESC-adjacent rule.

[dreamy hawk]

https://marathon.karnemir.com/intercepts/traxus/chats

HedvT_6221: Mars is free. We freed it. What are they fighting for?

Is all they say which is admitedly not a lot to go off of.

And if Traxus "freed" it, I'm assuming that means they freed it from the UESC and turned it into a giant corporate planet with symbolic civilian representation.

[latent python]

Which would mean MIDA isn't in charge

[dreamy hawk]

And MIDA certainly isn't running the show.

[light python]

People's third eye opening up out here transcending shit

[dreamy hawk]

Martians may be, but not MIDA.

[light python]

though, uh, I guess "third eye" has a different connotation here

[dreamy hawk]

And even then I'm assuming more puppet state than any true kind of self determination.

[latent python]

It kinda makes sense that MIDA would start spinning in circles once Mars was "freed", whatever that means

[tawny pagoda]

For American history purposes, the colonists hated England for taxes with no representation, but the colonists at that point had resources and wealth. And their awful flaws. But also f England lolol

What Mars experienced is more like larger state supported (ie. State takes resources from another place constantly, place enters food shortage, state doesnt give back or help out, allowing the famine to continue) which is what we see with the Irish Famine, Bengal famine, and Holodomor

[dreamy hawk]

`KrisBD_4505: Boredom. There’s nothing to rail against, so they make up enemies to pass the time.

HedvT_6221: They’re an annoyance, not a threat.`

[latent python]

Which reads correctly for how a lot of people here feel about TCIV's MIDA

[dreamy hawk]

Don't say the H word too loud. You'll upset the tankies.

[light python]

We have tankies here?

[dreamy hawk]

I think a lot of that likely happend after the Marathon left, but yeah.

[sinful hamlet]

Hope not

[dreamy hawk]

IDK I'm just a goof.

But I'll gladly bully any if the need arises.

[tawny pagoda]

Im a leftist im chillin, some people just are poorly read imo so they get gut reactions from how other things are treated historically like im not super surprised anymore

[forest gate]

Pardon my ignorance, what’s are tankies?

[dreamy hawk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

[latent python]

I think _gantry's MIDA is beamed in so it makes sense, whatever MIDA was on the ship got wiped out with the colony

[dreamy hawk]

And I'm not going to dive deeper in the lore channel becuase I like not getting banned.

[dreamy hawk]

The MIDA operatives on the ship also discuss not being MIDA, but branding as something new.

[forest gate]

Seems almost like an oxymoron

[dreamy hawk]

Not bringing the baggage along.

[latent python]

Well, no baggage other than 10 battleroids

[sinful hamlet]

Meh I said worst things and never got banned

[dreamy hawk]

And the weapons caches. And Strauss. An.

[sinful hamlet]

It’s kind of funny of g__ning is banned but not terrorism

[dreamy hawk]

Sure, but this isn't politics chat, and though I like to dip off topic in my jokes, it's probably best not to bring the whole channel there. And given my luck that's when a mod will look in. 😆

[light python]

I mean, how would you talk about mida without terrorism

[tawny pagoda]

Pro authoritarian leftists, the joke about "tankies" specifically is they will defend large commie states even if they fuck up and treat it as some conspiracy

Which i think is an overreaction due to how American history will make shit about about communism/socialism, rather than treating historical events in a level headed way

[latent python]

Is mpreg banned yet

Nope

[dreamy hawk]

"Shit" is OK but don't say "ti*s up."

[sinful hamlet]

Yeah you’re right lore channel is for lore

[light python]

Conversely, you can totally talk about MIDA without any kind of, uh, self-care euphamisms

[tawny pagoda]

Tbh politics influences Marathon's lore

[dreamy hawk]

MIDA politics is lore.
taps head

[sinful hamlet]

I like freedom fighting

[light python]

Though I have to admit now that you bring it up I suspect it's better to not get into _gantry's media consumption. I'm thinkin a lot of generated stuff involving Orion and other members of MIDA

[forest gate]

Don’t you know violence is more acceptable than anything potentially sexually related

[dreamy hawk]

Art and politics are inseperable, as are [most things] and politics, but I think you get what I mean.

[dreamy hawk]

I thought Bungie just hated birds.

[native trout]

skrac flock

[light python]

Well look the other reason to ban the body-part words is that they're used in mysogenistic harassment, too.

[forest gate]

Could be that, we know they don’t hate cats. Hehe.

[sinful hamlet]

“RUNNAH ! Broadcast those Ai generated pictures of Orion naked and load them up for Sol side distribution!” (In a single run)

[light python]

(I say this as someone who has stumbled into several aggrevating server timeouts and who holds that their approach is wrong)

[median hemlock]

truth early nova

but yeah the automod is handled

interestingly

[dreamy hawk]

Is it an onlien game without harassment and misogeny?
(This is a terrible, terrible joke and I'm mostly sorry.)

[tawny pagoda]

Yup you said it better than me

[sinful hamlet]

I’m glad I missed the literal apocalypse back in April (May ?) last year

[hallow vector]

what happened in april?

what happened in aprimay?

[tawny pagoda]

No this is true thankfully thon has been a lot better than other games

[sinful hamlet]

After the art thing some weirdos decided to send messed up things here

[light python]

_gantry being into Orion mpreg needs to be subtly confirmed in canon

[sinful hamlet]

Hence why we don’t have media permission

[hallow vector]

what's the art thing?

[dreamy hawk]

I've been pleasently surpirsed playing with some of my gal pals, honestly. Mics and random fills and no douches, so far.

[native trout]

Put it in an audio log

[tawny pagoda]

RUNNAH! waht am I looking at? NOTHIN!! DONT LOOK

[forest gate]

The plagiarism with antireal

[dreamy hawk]

There's always a story. 😩

[hallow vector]

oh that

[native trout]

New map purple valuable _gantry's diary

[sinful hamlet]

“ In May 2025, artist Fern "4nt1r34l" (Antireal) Hook accused Bungie of using her artwork as assets in Marathon without permission. After an investigation, Bungie admitted fault and confirmed "a former Bungie artist included these in a texture sheet that was ultimately used in-game." At the time, Bungie said it "reached out to 4nt1r34l to discuss this issue and are committed to do right by the artist."

It was fixed btw

[dreamy hawk]

Oh not as scandalous as I though. Bad, but I was thinking something worse.

[hallow vector]

yeah they paid her, i'm aware of it

[dreamy hawk]

They got compensated and added to the credits, I believe.

[stiff hearth]

yeah

[dreamy hawk]

Best way that could have gone.

[light python]

I wish a little bit of antireal stuff was still in the game

[dreamy hawk]

Other than it not hapening initially, of course.

[light python]

I think they also comprehensively scrubbed it

[sinful hamlet]

Accidental hire

[tawny pagoda]

And then they fired the guy and hired antireal iirc

[dreamy hawk]

I also think they ended up consulting some? IDK on that one.

[hallow vector]

afaik it was resolved to her satisfaction, according to her own word, so i guess it's fine

[forest gate]

We did get the banger meme “Plagiarism will make me God”

I remember seeing a bunch of people in Destiny with that ingame name for a bit.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh maybe I do remember correctly, then

[lunar cove]

I think the art thing was real bad optics and poisoned the well for bungie for a bit

[light python]

It's incredible how haters will suddenly discover a real passion for copyright or whatever

[tawny pagoda]

Vs (you know what game) having ai voicelines but thats fine ig 😭

[light python]

(To be clear, I was upset about it and am really glad they handled it, at the time.)

[forest gate]

Bad cause it’s not the first plagiarism scandal either

[sinful hamlet]

Mind you it was a guy that stole it way ago and it bled out in the designs 😭

[hallow vector]

yeah the infinite theft machine is the future don't you know, you're just afraid of technology 💀

[dreamy hawk]

There were more?

[plucky sierra]

first in-house though

[forest gate]

Over the years in Destiny

[light python]

There was fan art stolen for a Nerf gun?

[plucky sierra]

the destiny ones can generally be traced to 3rd parties contracted for destiny things

[dreamy hawk]

I was in my angry exDestiny phase so I may have darkly chuckled. Not my best moment in hindisght.

[light python]

Destiny was out ahead of its skis, as far as trying to be a multimedia empire goes

[forest gate]

True but the buck still stops with Bungie in the eyes of the public

[dreamy hawk]

Big takeaway was avoid all the angry people on reddit; they poison your mind.

[light python]

This is an important takeaway to arrive at, whatever the means.

[hallow vector]

the marathon reddit is pretty chill

[dreamy hawk]

I hop in r/Marathon from time to time and quickly have to leave.

[forest gate]

Avoid angry people. Anger is like drinking poison and hoping it’ll kill your enemy.

[light python]

I'm so glad they're on their way to "just" being a normal Sony studio now

[dreamy hawk]

50/50?

[light python]

I wish for Bungie what we have seen with, for example, Naughty Dog

[forest gate]

There’s two Marathon and Marathonthegame

[dreamy hawk]

It's a good life lesson that took some time and continues to need reenforcement, but absolutely 100000%.

[hallow vector]

to be clear, i get joy out of seeing awful people get mad at nothing, so i regularly trawl the steam forums for such. by my standards, the marathon reddit is pretty chill

[tawny pagoda]

Ngl most of the hate comments read like nonsense to me

Looks like Roblox? Like what?

[light python]

These people need Arachne.

[stiff hearth]

[hallow vector]

these people need a hobby

[forest gate]

IMO anger is only useful if it motivates you to do something productive about a situation or a problem otherwise best to cool off and be chill and try to move on.

[light python]

I can't tell if hating gantry and encouraging "death is the first step ism" is MIDA enough, maybe I should change my faction affiliaition.

[hallow vector]

my videosgames theory: arachne's symbol is a line of stylized flats from musical notation. a flat line.

[tawny pagoda]

Also I dont get the UI complains bc the layout is the same in many other games, if its too small to read for someone thats one thing, but literally the layout is the same in so many games

[light python]

Anger is a gift... if you use it to fight effectively for what you believe. If you do anything else with it it is a curse.

[hallow vector]

the ui is kinda rough to read sometimes, especially when you're new and you mouse over something and the game dumps a huge popup on you for every object, even if most of the popup is just controls

[dreamy hawk]

It's an excellent motivator, but it should never be the driver. 😆
I write so many angry emails that I return to the next day and find absolutely unhinged.

[native trout]

Yeah I never really got the UI complaints tbh

And if it looks like Roblox GOOD

The main thing that kept me away from arc raiders was the sauceless aesthetic I'd rather play a game with colors

[forest gate]

Reddit gaming posts are like 50% the same points rehashed in every possible sentence paraphrasing you can think of with healthy amount of ChatGPT - here what’s wrong and how to fix it formatted posts.

[hallow vector]

marathon's aesthetic drew me in

[tawny pagoda]

I guess whats the balance like, more words = more descriptive or less words = quicker to read

[dreamy hawk]

UI took a second, but other than not knowing what mods I'm looking at, I don't know why people don't like it.

[tawny pagoda]

I dont even know a roblox game that looks like this and everyone seems to love boring realism

[hallow vector]

having an item tell you where you can find it IN a mission is kinda rough

[lunar cove]

Tbh it could be worse, it could be Star Wars comics level of plagiarism

[sinful hamlet]

Marathon aesthetic lowkey rewired my whole taste

[tawny pagoda]

Hmm yeah fair

[forest gate]

That’s why I get co-pilot to write my email responses, I just give it the stuff I want to say then tell it to keep the email polite and conversational. I gamefied responding to work emails.

[hallow vector]

also the various kinds of chip and addon are barely visually distinct

[sinful hamlet]

I need the Alberto Mielgo cinematic trailer into my veins

[lunar cove]

Every couple months a Star Wars comic drops where the spaceship art is traced from someone's tabletop models, and you can tell because they include the translucent plastic display stands on the Tie Fighters

[tawny pagoda]

Comparisons to highguard and concord is so funny bc part of the memed thing is that their styles are so sauceless (and realism based)

[hallow vector]

more like realism CRINGE

[sinful hamlet]

Realism based games doesn’t appeal to me anymore.

[dreamy hawk]

I could never. My internal voice is too strong to be happy with what they generate. Also I hate co-pilot because it is being shoved down my throat so I'm not touching it out of spite.

[hallow vector]

i've been real fed up with realism for like a decade+ now

[lunar cove]

There was one, might have been marvel where they traced a lego star wars spaceship and left the studs and gaps between bricks

[hallow vector]

you learn to do realism so you can break the rules of realism

and do something actually interesting

[sinful hamlet]

Arc is not for me bc why is the extraction shooter in 3rd person 💀

[tawny pagoda]

Arc is soo greeyyy

[tawny pagoda]

SAME WHATS WITH THAT

3rd person shooters confuse me

[sinful hamlet]

It kills all the tension

Bungie said two cakes but damn

[tawny pagoda]

No bro im looking over the characters shoulder its aura

[forest gate]

Well I give copilot a sample of my writing style it does a decent approximation, I don’t like it much but it does remove some of the tedium of my day to day work.

[light python]

I neither read nor write work emails; once it became clear that it's just a tornado of pointless emails that no human either composes or digests, I have been vindicated.

[dreamy hawk]

My work has a ChatGPT shell someone made that I do find occasionally useful, though. Can't access the internet or cite reference so it doesn't try to gaslight me. Until I give it a math problem and then I just laugh.

[dreamy hawk]

It's a tool like any other.

[tawny pagoda]

I will willingly struggle writing an email for 30 minutes and thats how I will keep it 😌

[forest gate]

I felt the UI was alright what wasn’t intuitive was clicking on a slot and not being taken to that tab. Also distinguishing between variations of the same item type but minor.

[light python]

(I stopped monitoring work email when I worked at a company where engineers were not expected to read email unless specifically asked because their standups transmitted all necessary information and they didn't have personal machines anyway and it changed my brain permenantly.)

[tawny pagoda]

Oh hey fellow engineer

[hallow vector]

morality aside (huge aside tbh) i must warn against becoming reliant on AI in any capacity. it's NOT making money, it's losing billions, it's going to crash hard within this year or next year at most

[sinful hamlet]

Emails are a soul sucking task that I refuse to do anymore.

[dreamy hawk]

My favorite use of genAI was uploading my presentation slides and having it give me a time-fitted script I requested. I kept like 0% of what it did, but it was super helpful in helping me time things.

[hallow vector]

if you become reliant on AI, you are setting yourself up for future failure

[forest gate]

I work from home and can use that 30mins to play around of marathon so you know. It’s a trade off I’m willing to make.

[light python]

OR the market will remain irrational longer than our biosphere can remain solvent, you never know.

[modest vector]

I'm actually jealous

[sinful hamlet]

Praying on Open Ai downfall but those corps keeps inject money in it

[tawny pagoda]

Ai use makes ur brain less active, managers push it so one person can do 2x the work so they dont have to pay more people, a lot of it is still poorly optimized but yeah ai is crashing

[light python]

Listen we shouldn't get into this too much because that place was fuckin' heaven on earth (for me, at that time) and I get real triggered, even though my new independent consultant life is actually better in a lot of ways.

[hallow vector]

people are already starting to ask about return on their investments, the absolutely massive loans required to keep ai companies afloat are coming due

[forest gate]

Though I work as engineer myself I’m a project manager and so I gotta read the emails. I wish I didn’t though.

[light python]

I am going to go out on a limb here and blame Jira for being a piece of shit

[forest gate]

It’s true

[dreamy hawk]

You could make the same arguments about a calculator or an abacus. Again, it's how you use the tool, not the tool itself, imo. But the bubble will 100% pop.

[sinful hamlet]

On the flip side I’d rather let AI handle all the email bootlicking I have to do to my professors.

[lunar cove]

The only AI I support is Allen Iverson

[dreamy hawk]

Students writing their entire paper with AI? Horrifying.
Me using it to trim three words out of my abstract while keeping the rest the same? A much more efficient use of my time, imo.

[bronze skiff]

100% agree it's the user(s) not the tool(s)

[forest gate]

I think you’re more likely to fall into the trap with GenAI of not using your noggin as much and become too reliant on the output if you’re not applying your critical thinking skills to question if they output is accurate.

[sinful hamlet]

I just wish for the image/video gen ai field to simply collapses but it’s just a wish

[dreamy hawk]

100%. Especially when I include numbers I get consistently trash outputs (I know they're technically not calculators). If I'm using it I'm also playing the "what did you hilariously fuck up" game concurrently.

[sinful hamlet]

Those damn Marathon AI slop on Pinterest

[tawny pagoda]

I think ai is shit and it does hallucinate a lot bc it is just predicting the next best word. There is "ai" optimized for stuff though which i like, such as with Wolfram Alpha

[forest gate]

Yeah, with a calculator it only makes a mistake if you put in the wrong inputs and perform the wrong operations but AI can pull shit out thin air.

[dreamy hawk]

Wolfram Alpha is how I passed uni. 🙏

[dreamy hawk]

Is it bad that I see it as a fun feature? 😆 Makes me feel good about myself.

"wow, at least I'm not that dumb"

[forest gate]

I am the guy doing the double take blink.GIF

[dreamy hawk]

I especially like when I call it on its mistake, it apologizes, swearing to never make it again, and then reruns the same operation with a novel error. How? 😆

[forest gate]

Sounds like you just need to give yourself a bit more credit bud.

[dreamy hawk]

I said don't change anything else. How??

[sinful hamlet]

Ai is just useless to me. Fym the French revolution was in 2018 I’m asking you to tell me synonyms of parliamentary chambers (real experience)

[dreamy hawk]

It's the opposite. Should have met the ego maniac I was in highschool. I've been chipping away at it for decades.

[forest gate]

Oh copilot has given me an answer then I’m like this answer is wrong and it’s like yeah your right that solution would never work because of X, Y, Z but here’s something that will really work.

[dreamy hawk]

Let me guess. It doesn't really work.

[forest gate]

I too was once a lot more smug but reality has a way of humbling you.

For the better I might add

[austere elk]

yeah that's just, how it goes. you need some familiarity with anything you ask it about because it will just, make things up because it sounds good

[forest gate]

Bingo

[dreamy hawk]

College was good. I appreciate no longer thinking I'm the smartest person in the room. Makes me more open to hear what others have to say, and unsuprisingly, other people have a lot to contribute!

[forest gate]

Indeed, the world is a lot more interesting when you’re curious about what other people have to say about things

[tawny pagoda]

Partially less, the problem is calculators are direct use for example, like yeah its a user issue but thats also part of why i push back on its use

[forest gate]

Though sometimes curiosity is not rewarded well

[tawny pagoda]

I def felt minor impostor syndrome at times, but man some of the most confident people were the dumbest

[dreamy hawk]

Imposter syndrome is a sign of wisdom, imo. Dunning Kruger isn't actually real turns out, but there's still something to it, imo.

[light python]

Who among us was not much worse ten or twenty years ago? Certainly everything I know about helping people be less abrasive is hard earned personal winnings.

[dreamy hawk]

I don't want to interact with anyone who has been the same for decades.

My favorite people to work with are always ex felons or people with incredibly complicated histories. The amount of wisdom and growth that they (not always) display is just, inspiring.

[tawny pagoda]

Fuck, people are talking about ai at work right now too. Always the same couple things

[tawny pagoda]

If you dont have problems with the person you were before, how do you know if you've grown

[austere elk]

I'm so sick of the stupid automod

[tawny pagoda]

Knowing how to work with people makes u a better engineer fr

[tawny pagoda]

Automod?

[austere elk]

hole of the posterior is shrimply too much for our marathon lore channel

[hallow vector]

ah, did you get got?

[austere elk]

just blocked the message

still dumb

[tawny pagoda]

booty!

[dreamy hawk]

But you can fuck up a shit storm.

[forest gate]

Bootylicious

[dreamy hawk]

Growth doesn't neccesarilly have to be problem-focused, imo. People can grow in lots of ways. New skills, opinions, preferences, etc.

[forest gate]

That’s when you try to do the horizontal tango but someone has the runs

[tawny pagoda]

Totally true, I feel like ive said this to more people recently that are like "omg I cant believe i fucked up that bad 1 year ago"

Lowkey do shields or heals have an explanation lore wise or is it purely a game mechanic

Going back to thon lore

[dreamy hawk]

I don't think we know the mechanics at all.

[forest gate]

Well, you could think of the shields as kinetic dampeners. Reducing bullet velocity by absorbing the kinetic energy

[tawny pagoda]

Like oh yeah triage bot was so they dont die in the traxus mars mines, but

[tawny pagoda]

Oo I can see that

[forest gate]

Healing, we are semi synthetic, this could be some kind of nano technology that repairs damaged tissue.

[tawny pagoda]

Its just filled with weaveworms haha

Be free my worms!

[forest gate]

Maybe, or marathon’s equivalent of bacta

[tawny pagoda]

I could see heal just tissue repair.. shields are dampeners that work similar to upgrades in the upgrade trees.. yeah

Ohh true

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/shield-charge?search=shield

Useless

[robust vale]

Yes! Their codex entries list them

[dreamy hawk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/panacea-kit?search=shield

Also useless

[robust vale]

Patch kits are nano bots that patch us up

[tawny pagoda]

ITS CHARGED

[robust vale]

Shields are presumably just energy shields and I think shied charges are basically battery packs

[dreamy hawk]

Where? 👀 I've missed that.

[tawny pagoda]

Haha, !! Do not waste on papercuts!!!

[robust vale]

The patch kit codex entry

[tawny pagoda]

Energy shields on weapons are a bit diff but I could see that hmm

[dreamy hawk]

OVERVIEW: Basic injector-type delivery system for introducing specialized surgical swarmlets into a SHELL's circulatory system.

Bless. I missed that in my search.

[robust vale]

Yeah

When a shield gets cracked I believe that’s just it running out of juice

[tawny pagoda]

swarmlets

[dreamy hawk]

And the shield charge is just a battery.

[robust vale]

And so we shove in shield charges to restart it

[tawny pagoda]

thats so interesting

[robust vale]

It is yeah

[tawny pagoda]

Swarm robotics type splish

[dreamy hawk]

OVERVIEW: Portable power pack holds sufficient energy to restore functionality to a standard LEVEL 1 personal shield device [PSD].

[robust vale]

Especially cause shells are synthetic

So they can just repair shit

And cause shields are separate implants, at least better ones than our basic shields, they have different systems

[forest gate]

I was just guessing at the nano machines but it seemed like the most likely scifi trope

[robust vale]

I know a lot of the consumables have lore explanations

Cardio Kick is PEDs

As are energy amps

[tawny pagoda]

How runners revive is like in aot how ||reiner sent his consciousness to his butt|| lmaooo

But like it doesnt move

[dreamy hawk]

PCP?

[robust vale]

Performance Enhancing Drugs

[tawny pagoda]

Is the brain / consciousness unit in the head ..

[light python]

So there's another equipment interop fridge logic thing here

[dreamy hawk]

PCP! lol

[forest gate]

Meth baby yeah!

[robust vale]

Kicks are coolant and agility boosters, Amps are more like meth ngl

[light python]

Like, okay, shield charges being something robots have: makes sense!

[robust vale]

Given headshots do more damage I assume so

[light python]

Do... patch kits also work on robots?

[robust vale]

Patch kits are synthetic so probably a little bit

[light python]

Do they work on human bodies?

[robust vale]

We’re robots

So

[tawny pagoda]

Rook?

Its both biological and synthetic

[light python]

Yeah they work on rook, no reduction in performance or anything.

[robust vale]

ARSs are really advanced robots tbf

[dreamy hawk]

Rook is entirely mechanical, I believe.

[tawny pagoda]

Yeah I meant the patch kits

[light python]

I think this is a real strech for gameplay reasons but it's wild that the same thing would work on people, shells, and robots.

[robust vale]

Like we know they’ve got sophisticated AI onboard them

[forest gate]

Bleeds blue

[robust vale]

I don’t think they work on people

[forest gate]

Robots don’t bleed

[robust vale]

I think their presence around TCIV is a gameplay thing

[light python]

Rook... bleeds?

Oh no

[dreamy hawk]

That is gameplay and I'm pretty set on that, tbh.

[robust vale]

Yes Rook bleeds

[dreamy hawk]

Lore wise it makes no sense.

[tawny pagoda]

Id imagine they 1) have a mix of things that work 2) the artificial is more similar to the biological than we thought

I mean modern robotics is so inefficient

Other than like. An arm

[light python]

These robots have circulatory systems?

[dreamy hawk]

Shells do have a ton of biological features and tissues; I could see overlap being possible in this far future.

[forest gate]

I suspect rook must have some biomata to enable the runner’s minds to not reject the shell

[light python]

I saw your typo and will never forget it

[dreamy hawk]

The Shells do; not Rooks.

[dreamy hawk]

Saw nothing.

[dreamy hawk]

Running rooks is risky becuase they don't.

[robust vale]

I’d believe ARSs have a rudimentary system made for coolant that they shove patch kits into

[light python]

Yeah okay I can buy "the limited cybernetic junction includes some biomata threaded in with minimal circulation for the limited nervous system"

[dreamy hawk]

HISTORY: A ROOK frame is a scavenger's best friend. These base robotic frames are typically utilized by the UESC and various corporations for manual and heavy labor. RUNNERS have taken to augmenting these simple frames to house a limited-use neural sync adapter allowing the RUNNER to inhabit the ROOK for short periods without too much mental degradation. Because they are not SHELLS, each ROOK has only a small set of kit-bashed ABILITIES and fully lack the functionality to be upgraded via IMPLANTS and CORES. Though some variety of standard system upgrading can be achieved, a ROOK will never match the full complement of ABILITIES, comfort, and general utility inherent in more advanced bio-cybernetic SHELLS.

[robust vale]

They explicitly don’t which is why you can hear rook say it’s a “limited consciousness transfer” when selecting them sometimes

You can’t put your whole head in a Rook

[dreamy hawk]

Or you'll crack if you do.

[light python]

so we think the limited nural sync adapter has bleeding-tubes that extend into at least the head and torso

[robust vale]

Not impossible

[light python]

I mean, if we don't think that this Should Not Be Explained because it is Obviously Not Diegetic

[dreamy hawk]

Not me, no. I think the blue blood is just so we can ID a downed rook. But if we're going to justify it I wouldn't outright reject that.

[light python]

(I appreciate that bungie games really go hard on diegesis though)

[robust vale]

It is probably just a gameplay convenience, the bleeding thing I mean

But like, shrug

[tawny pagoda]

I thought it was limited in terms of amount of time, 15 min

[robust vale]

Well that too I think

Rooks aren’t safe is the gist

[dreamy hawk]

I don't think we get a specific number, but Running in a Rook is canonically a desperate and/or risky choice.

[proud sundial]

oh what implants and cores dont work on rook?

[robust vale]

Shells need to leave TCIV cause the radiation hurts the connection, Rooks I think are just cooked in the time limit because of what they are

[forest gate]

🤷‍♂️

[robust vale]

Theoretically you could, on earth, only need to leave a shell if it’s blown up

[light python]

No they totally do work on a rook

The rook lore vs gameplay is a little half baked

[dreamy hawk]

I think that's more in refernece to loadout.

[proud sundial]

ah ok

[light python]

As brilliant as Rook is as a mechanism I think it's late-breaking and based on what they learned in tests

[forest gate]

It was a bit of last minute feature of the game right?

Make sense that it’s a bit underbaked

[dreamy hawk]

Most Rook adjacent questions I feel like are "gameplay" with either no or vague lore underpinnings that kinda start to raise more questions than they answer. ^

[robust vale]

Rook does feel like they said “we need a scav run equivalent”

Which is odd especially when free kits exist

But also I killed 6 rooks on outpost yesterday cause they kept swarming conveyance like a bunch of bees so they can stay, they’re funny

[forest gate]

Do you feel like the game would have been better with custom characters instead of what we ended up with?

[robust vale]

No I quite like the shell system

[forest gate]

I personally would have preferred the former

[robust vale]

I like the abilities and uniqueness

It also makes it easier to track what teams you’re fighting if you can note their comp

[forest gate]

They could have kept that but allow you to make a custom face and body for your character

[robust vale]

“Two triages and a destroyer” is easier to track than “3 generic player models”

[dreamy hawk]

This would have been nice, but I also feel like it would have undermined the disposable narrative.

[forest gate]

They could have done a destiny and put you into the armour of each of the game’s classes while giving you a visually distinct character in the menus

[robust vale]

Maybe but that’s a lot of work for something that never shows up in gameplay

And I think the shell system is a bit more thematically resonant

[forest gate]

That seems to have been a rewrite in response to the poor reception of the “hero” characters they had in the alpha

[forest gate]

They did it for Destiny and you barely see your character except in cutscenes and social spaces

[stiff hearth]

i like the idea more of giving just more shells to pick from and maybe way more skins

[robust vale]

We are getting another shell next season

Given the low ability count I’m expecting a shell every 2-3 seasons? But that may be optimistic

[median hemlock]

i really really really hope they do not overload the game with new shells and weapons too quickly

[stiff hearth]

not the game for a char creator though i would love to play a game where i could make a char like a marathon runner

not many games give you that artificial body feel

[robust vale]

It is really cool tbh

[stiff hearth]

not even cyberpunk since you can’t full convert in that game

[robust vale]

Seeing the human facsimile parts meet the robotic

I like it

[stiff hearth]

well, it looks like we have room for four more and I would imagine one per season

thief was season one iirc

[robust vale]

True thief wasn’t in the slam

[stiff hearth]

and at the very least, they said they have plans for the next few years

[median hemlock]

being a live service game is honestly kinda scary

[forest gate]

I suspect they rotate the weapons that you can only get via schema into the defaults and move the current defaults into schemas this would freshen things up without overly complicating the sandbox.

Also expect guns to get a tuning pass each season to shift the meta around.

I do think they may have to do at least 1 new shell season initially to appeal to players to come back and try a new play style.

I’m open to being wrong though

[median hemlock]

even if i love how things are now, trying to keep the story going perpetually is... not ideal

[stiff hearth]

welcome to how it felt to play destiny

[forest gate]

Yeah

[median hemlock]

i've played a live service game before, i don't have to have played destiny lol

[forest gate]

Destiny things

[median hemlock]

also look i don't want to yuck people's yum but

destiny 2 is not exactly doing great

[stiff hearth]

it was for a while

then they stumbled

[dreamy hawk]

I'm less concerned about story and more about mechanics and other pieces, tbh. How are things going to keep feeling fresh without loosing the plot?

[forest gate]

Oh it certainly isn’t any destiny player will agree with you

[stiff hearth]

i miss the golden era of d2 when i enjoyed it

[dreamy hawk]

But Destiny also had a lot of story potential that went some interesting directions...

[median hemlock]

i tried multiple times to play d2 and the new player experience was genuinely the worst in any game ive ever played

warframe is easier to get into

[dreamy hawk]

Actually though.

[median hemlock]

i am afraid of that happening again tbh

[robust vale]

I think they’ve got room to continue the story in marathon and know where they want to take it

I’m going to trust them because so far it’s been good

[forest gate]

I tried many times with Warframe but I’ve bounced off it every time. I do enjoy Soulframe.

[stiff hearth]

yeah

[dreamy hawk]

It is a valid fear but there's a different game director at the helm and a different team working on it. I think we can be cautiously optimistic from what we've seen, acknowledging the valid concerns we see in their other IP.

[stiff hearth]

i am here to see where it goes. good thing at the least bungie knows how to make the shooting feel good

[median hemlock]

i fully believe they can keep things great for a while, but i cannot pretend i do not see like, 5 or whatever years from now where something jumps the shark in an attempt to keep the game going

[robust vale]

Yeah the gameplay’s fire

[median hemlock]

this is not a bungie problem, this is just part of the problem with live service titles

[dreamy hawk]

If nothing else I have gotten my $40 so w/e in the long run.

[forest gate]

Yeah, I already have 100+ hours in the game

Good value for money as far as entertainment goes

[dreamy hawk]

I'm at a the 50 hour marks? Less than a buck an hour is a pretty good return for the amount of fun I've had, imo.

But again, I think the long term concerns are legitimate, but like I said to an earlier point about player counts, I don't think it behooves us to be preemptively anxious, either.

[median hemlock]

yeah i'm not one of those unbearable weirdos who points at concurrent player counts

[dreamy hawk]

The whole studio could get hit by a meteor tomorrow and the whole concern becomes moot.

(We all know it would be a W'rk.)

[forest gate]

This W’rk truther over here. SMH.

[median hemlock]

i've got no worries about the game dying any time soon, i just do not know where they're going to take the story and that does give me mild anxiety lol

[native trout]

Yeah I can't name one game that maintained even a consistent 10k players that shut down

also everybody's acting as if Sony are loansharks Bungie owes 10 billion marathonbucks like Bungie hasn't been farming money off destiny 2 for a decade

[median hemlock]

people who obsess over playercounts also have no idea what a healthy playercount looks like lmao