📚marathon-lore-discussion

[echo sundial]

Can't even access it

[rotund stump]

also yeah osiris right at the beginning of season of the hunt has been savathun the whole time

[digital plaza]

Yeah, like i said you needed to be there

Otherwise youre fucked

[echo sundial]

Well anyways thankfully byf has a video explaining it but like

Every mission I'm having to watch a recap video to catch up and carefully avoiding spoilers for stuff I haven't played yet lmao

[digital plaza]

Actually, if i remember correctly, this story line started way back in the first season of beyond light expansion

[echo sundial]

I know the games kinda dead but I'm having fun seeing all the content I missed out on in the past 6 years

I have like 40 million notifications though and all the menus and systems are different

Very overwhelmed but I'm working through it slowly

I get to be the clueless noob walking around with a DSC day one emblem, yippee!!!

I think that's really funny

[remote magnet]

Destiny 2 is a beautifull game. Shame 90% of it is made irrelevant, by them not updating the Raid and Dungeon gear to the new system.
They are working on that, which is good, but i dont know if the game will have any players left at that point.
That was the worst mistake they made; removing any and all incentives to play the older content, i.e. 90% of the game

[rotund stump]

they'll live

I refuse to subscribe to all the fear about the game dying when it's realistically a 4-month delay like any other DLC

not to say I'm entirely not expecting it but yk

[echo sundial]

Idk the game is like 10 years old now and the playerbase is split between marathon and destiny

[sage lark]

2 diff games

[echo sundial]

Yeah with the same group of players and streamers

Who in here isn't also a destiny player lmao

[remote magnet]

Lots of players left after Final shape. That was to be expectet, the story had its finale, and even an epilogue.
The next nail in the coffin was the portal. nice on paper, but it had some insidious, hard to see coming flaws that made the game unfun. mostly because it forced us to play everything as hard as we could bear, all the time. Made us feel impotent, and ruined the powerfantasy. Destinys biggest strenght was always that the gameplay just felt good, and suddenly it didnt.
Then they disincentiviced us from engaging with 90% of the game.
It was just too much at once.
Im on an destiny hiatus. I still love the game, i havent grown as childishly cynical as many of the louder voices on the internet, but im not optimistic about its future. but im hoping for the best, and il def check out any new content

[sage lark]

Me

I played like 50 hours when forsaken came out

[echo sundial]

Tbh I used to be a religious destiny guy but that was 6 years ago

If anything I wouldn't have bought the new stuff if it wasn't for marathon reminding me it was there

U make a fair point

[sage lark]

Then you got mfs hyper analyzing Marathon and making grifter videos about it like the LUCKY100P guy

[remote magnet]

Ah yes. Asmongold at home.

[sage lark]

Yes

Such a miserable mf

[digital plaza]

I would brush off first log with an excuse of it being some pranksters dropping green uniforms to torment BoBs or something, but considering this and the entire viewpoint of them being simulacrums it really starts to piece everything together. Maybe the fact that we didnt see any logs of ground action is because there weren't any in the conventional way? What if during the bombardment Pfhor hid some drop pods among the bombs with simulacrums in them? And now these fuckers roam around hiding. Maybe in some drop pods there were some S'pht and Pfhor soldiers too, that would explain multiple mentions of them planet side (cult having compilers brain, contact event remnant that Orion tried to take, bajillion graffiti all around with quotes from OG games and xenobiopsy logs being found on outpost)

[sage lark]

“I dont like Marathon, I love Destiny, let me make a video on Marathon every time it moves”

[digital plaza]

Really interesting stuff

[digital plaza]

Might be wrong tho, dont know much about simulacrums (when they were first introduced to be specific)

[digital plaza]

Love both games, but man some Destiny fans gotta accept the fact that its time to let go of it

Content creators especially

I love how Aztecross evolved beyond that for example

[remote magnet]

Yes

Honestly, most of the big names have

[hallow thistle]

aztecross my favorite cornball

[hidden geyser]

hes my favourite streamer who gets items given to him by turbosweats

[drifting mulch]

i like it when streamers are nice to others

[tight turret]

I haven't even played the final shape yet because i'm scared. I don't want to know how it ends, even if it's good. Destiny has been part of my life since i first played the beta when i was like 12 and before that i was pwning my older brothers on blood gulch and sandtrap.

Bungie games are hard coded in my neural patterns

[remote magnet]

To what point have you played then?

[tight turret]

Last time i played was season of the deep, when the grind for solo grandmaster dungeons just broke any enjoyment i had left

[remote magnet]

Ah, so shortly before final shape

[tight turret]

Yeah

I've heard it's worth doing. I've heard people cried.

[remote magnet]

Want to know the seasonal story you missed in the season after Deep? Leading into final shape? or no?

[tight turret]

I will cry if i log back on. I've only ever had one character.

Exo sunbreaker titan. Never made a warlock, never made a hunter

[tight turret]

Yeah sure

[remote magnet]

Playing till shadowkeep. Only have one character too, a Titan. Tiatan is love, titan is live

[tight turret]

The wall that keeps the city safe and the fire that keeps it warm throughout the long night

[remote magnet]

Well, at the end off deep ahsa, the space whale tells us that only Savathun knows how to follow the witness into the portal. So the next season, season of the witch we talk to her ghost, to parley a truce.
Savathun left instructions for him, because she knew we would come, she would only be revived once weve dealt with Xivu Arath. So the season is spent powering up Eris morn with tributes, turning her into a proper hivegod capable of challenging Xivu.
Eris uses a glitch in the sword logic (long story) to banish Xivu Arath from her own throneworld, thereby rendering her mortal and removing her from the conflict (though not killing her). Savathun is revived and tells us that only an Ahamkara wish can open the way into the traveler, and tells us the 13th wish.
Next season, season of the wish, Mara uses Rivens heart to commune with Rivens spirit. Riven refuses to grant the wish untill we secured her remaining eggs. So we spend that season collecting ehr eggs.
After dooing that, and after lots of ahamkara mischieve, Riven grants our wish and opens the portal into the traveler for us.

[tight turret]

Oh nvm i remember eris becoming a hive god

I did play that

[remote magnet]

lol, no problem

[tight turret]

Ngl now i remember being conflicted about eris becoming a god. In D1 i always thought we would help her get revenge or find her humanity back, maybe even give her a new ghost

[remote magnet]

Yeah, the season framed it as beeing dangerous. but it worked out alright in the end

[stone cosmos]

We got monster girl eris, which, even better

I wonder how Destiny 2's finale seasons played if you didn't self-insert as another member of Mara's polycule. The twins and Caiatl are the only ones that got a full arc imo :/

[tight turret]

Unlike SOMEONE (timothy) i don't think engaging in coitus with the hive is a great idea

[stone cosmos]

That's what I did and it came off pretty well, Awoken Warlock, whee, but...Does it hit if you're John Exodestiny?

[tight turret]

I still remember the taken king intro cinematic that ragebaited people with mara getting shot to shit by the dreadnought

I can't even remember how she didn't die ngl i thought she did for most of taken king and then she just reappeared

[stone cosmos]

Pretty much yeah

Mara figured she was probably gonna die and did weird Awoken magic to cheat herself into Oryx's throne world.

That's the Forsaken dungeon; the piece of Oryx's raid that Mara stole and turned into a tomb for her wife.

[tight turret]

Letting thousands of your irreplaceable soldiers die to ragebait your opps

Such a girlboss

[stone cosmos]

Also driving your extremely codependent brother insane

[tight turret]

YURI?!!!!

FORSAKEN HAD YURI????????

FUCK

[stone cosmos]

Yeah Mara's wife was a muscular Awoken archer girl

[tight turret]

https://tenor.com/view/jesse-pinkman-jesse-pinkman-depressed-sad-gif-14614205673094656184

HOW DID I MISS THAT

[stone cosmos]

https://www.destinypedia.com/Sjur_Eido

Also I thought Eris-Mara-Petra polycule was a more natural ship than Eris-Drifter and Mara-Guardian, but what do I know

The important offscreen event we were most robbed of is Mara and Eris LMAOing a pyramid

girl split that shit in half

[tight turret]

Turned that shit into a trapezoid

[stone cosmos]

Pyramisn't

[tight turret]

I mean mara and eris are the second and third most powerful beings in destiny in my outdated powerscaling headcanon

I guess maybe riven would be of similar power since she can't even die

[stone cosmos]

The Witness was like, Hello there; yes I am the thing the Guardian saw at the end of Shadowkeep and they were like "SHIT RUN EXTRACT FRIENDLY FRIENDLY"

Sure would have liked to have seen that!

Eido the Pirate Nerd is named after Sjur Eido. Sjur's trademark weapon is the Wish-Ender bow, Eido's trademark weapon is Truth

[eternal knoll]

havin her do this as her first (arguably second) act in the whole story as if we all knew and loved her as a character was so weird lol

[keen plank]

Possibly. It seems like Straus went with the Pfhor and then at one point disappeared. Even if Durandal believes he’s dead, we DO look for him as the security officer at one point. We never find a body and the series intentionally makes his demise ambiguous.

We’re learning a LOT more about him and what he was like in this game. It shows how important he is as well as just how much of a bastard he was.

He’s probably connected to what happened to Tycho in some way. Remember, it’s increasingly clear he seemingly wanted at least some of the 11 AI to go rampant so that he could study them. We see it with Joyuse, Darius, and especially his pet project/personal torture subjects Durandal.

[blazing crescent]

I haven't played Cryo does it set up what the next map or mission might be or suggest it?

[craggy finch]

a lot of logs regarding Durandal and Strauss

also there's a compiler but the lore entry for it just says it's a spooky unknown alien

[digital plaza]

Uuuh not really

We do get info on colony infrastructure tho, like there's underwater base, giant residential center, some military base(?) and so on

[sage lark]

Underwater baseee lets gooooooooo

Always the coolest areas in gaming

[digital plaza]

NEW MAP ABYSS | SEASON OF THE DEEP | DEST..I MEAN MARATHON

[craggy finch]

fuck man I just did a NuCal contract and got to the final stage but the objective was in a hazard room

[sage lark]

Did they confirm if theres water fauna?

[craggy finch]

no hazard keys no mechanic thing, tried to rush it, died from poison

fuck off

[sage lark]

The drone data only said land i think

[digital plaza]

I dont think so

[digital plaza]

Haha when i was doing it for the first time i died too

[craggy finch]

I've tried with trio fills but I get matched with idiots who split and get killed

doing it solo is a nightmare with the cross country

[digital plaza]

Was running out of time and was like NO WAY I GOT THIS RNG WTF

[digital plaza]

Solo/lfg/friends is the best way to do contracts

[craggy finch]

yeah at this point solo contracts are unfeasible because of how much stuff is for single run

The MIDA finale is definitely for a team but I won't get the necessary coordination with fills

[digital plaza]

Nah man you got it

[craggy finch]

thanks

I have a friend who's into the lore but reluctant to get into an extraction shooter

I'm trying to entice him with duo in the future

[digital plaza]

For final MIDA contract just rush conveyance request, im sure you can even do this with a freekit if you loot entire pinwheel fast enough

[craggy finch]

honestly the scariest part is processing and flight control

[digital plaza]

Yeah marathon is a brutal one, on the same level as tarkov id say

[digital plaza]

Evil ass pvp buildings

[craggy finch]

had a Triage pop by during the processing lockdown and he spent half a minute punching the red barriers

[digital plaza]

lol

[plucky sierra]

Yes

[craggy finch]

FUUUUUUUUUCK

I almost exfiled, two seconds then some guy came in and killed me in the barrier

right after running to three POIs miles away from each other

even had a purple shield

the exfil requirement is bananas

biggest deflation of any motivation to continue

I just want to continue the lore

[bleak canyon]

death is only the beginning

dont forget that lore kiddo

[craggy finch]

literally two seconds

after two days of trying

I can accept the objectives but dying two seconds from exfil

it's ridiculous

[bleak canyon]

yeah that sucks but u made a good effort

thats the best part and can only get better from there

[digital plaza]

Nah man it’s good you got this, just take a break if you don’t feel like doing it. Do something else, have some fun, you can always come back to it

Yeah sometimes ridiculous shit happens but it’s alright you need to accept it and move on

[craggy finch]

The way it's set up in the story is annoying too, just "oh hey get some data" like it's just a regular errand and then they make me sprint a triangle that spans half the map then demand I exfil

[bleak canyon]

esp cyro, its not meant to be easy, cryo is massive end game layer upon layer

[craggy finch]

Progression with trio feels impossible because I'm at that stage where guys bring in sniper rifles to Perimeter

and no one is going to follow these hyper specific objectives with me

[bleak canyon]

make a team from LFG like i do. then u wont get drug users and zombies

[craggy finch]

at that point yeah, I feel part of this game's lack of retention is the weirdly specific demand to have two friends on hand to help you

I can deal with the game's priority contracts and solo frustration by just bashing my head intothe wall until it works out

but this contract is a ridiculous time sink

[bleak canyon]

lmao they dont have to be friends, i play with complete strangers every day but i filter out the rubbish

[digital plaza]

I had those moments too, I had it rough sometimes like really fucked up

[bleak canyon]

If you arent enjoying the game and the contracts, the game might not be for you

[craggy finch]

I was fine with the previous contracts

[digital plaza]

But after every failed attempt you come back and do your best to win

[craggy finch]

this one is insanely designed

[digital plaza]

And when you do you will feel like a king

[craggy finch]

I even understand MIDA's final contract as something prioritising team coordination

this one is an exercise in insanity

[digital plaza]

Huh?

[craggy finch]

just being on the cusp of it fucked me up mentally

[bleak canyon]

huh?

[digital plaza]

Yeah xdd

[digital plaza]

Happens

Take a break chill out a little

[bleak canyon]

im the same way, i had a situation go down that was so frustrating in marathon, i quit the game even though my team was still alive and went and ate chiptole to get my mind off it, i wanted to break my controller. passionate + perfectionism. but i learn from it and do better next time

[craggy finch]

yeah I'm in that sort of mood where I NEED to progress the story to fulfill some weird OCD

you set me up in like the middle of an ongoing storyline

then fuck me up

[digital plaza]

You can do the dark souls way and just try until you’ve do it, through tears and suffering

[craggy finch]

this is also literally baby's first extraction shooter for me, I was drawn by how interesting the original Marathon games were and wanted to see how they'd explore the setting

I like most of the loop but trying to get deeper into the lore has been frustrating because a lot is locked behind exfilling while teasing you

like whenever I got blasted when I had a lore item I was looking forward to reading

[bleak canyon]

hahaha same. I love the lore of marathon, its interesting to read, i hate battle royals and extraction shooters but the art style and lore and a few other things got me hooked

[craggy finch]

I presume Bungie has a plan for the compiler as well since it would be bonkers to hide an OG Marathon enemy behind conditions for the top players

the overlap of Marathon oldheads and players at the level to access the compiler must be 0.001% of the player base

[bleak canyon]

its end game so its for everyone, just have to build to get there. the top players just have more time and more passionate

[digital plaza]

Nah I think everyone can do compiler at some point, you got like two more months to do it

[bleak canyon]

I woulnt even compare yerself to anyone, just do u

i havent even watched any spoilers about cyro cuz im so excited to see whats in there

[craggy finch]

I've been getting by on either fills or solo but at this point the game is beating me over the head with forming dedicated teams

I'm a codex crackhead, I need more of those entries

[bleak canyon]

The effort you put in, is what you get back. If u dont wanna form a team, then u get scrubs.

U put in effort to make a team, you get better coordination.

[digital plaza]

You can do lore stuff solo as I did

[bleak canyon]

not in cyro

[craggy finch]

yeah this specific one is messing me up though and it feels especially made for a coordinated team

[digital plaza]

I’ve done entire lore codex page of Cryo first week crew fills

[craggy finch]

I've gotten some great fills for priority contracts but those had much less stringent conditions

[digital plaza]

You can do it, sometimes you need to get lucky or just sweat a little

[craggy finch]

like the previous NuCal one just let me scan and then afterwards didn't have to worry about it once the objective was finished

we exfilled anyway but there was less pressure

now with the exfil demand there's a requirement to survive the entire run with your team

and they might want to do other objectives

and we get merc'd by another team

[digital plaza]

Nah you can do everything in this game solo, trust me because I did (exception being vaults on cryo)

[craggy finch]

well I got close

so it's possible

I'm just not willing to try it again any time soon lmao

[digital plaza]

Yeah chill out, no need to rush it

[craggy finch]

It was also boring having to rat it as Assassin

felt like an obligation at that point

I know solo was implemented basically last minute so nothing is really optimised for it

[digital plaza]

You can do it pro active way too

Only limitation is your skill I guess

[keen plank]

Exactly. You have the right (and growth) mindset.

[wide orchid]

Okay so what is up with the heat cascade. I remember reading the codex about outpost and it says something like the only warning new arrivals get is to watch out for the raining fire but I was messing around last night and just looking at the sky in awe and noticed there are cannons that shoot up like fireworks that rain down on you. You can watch the entire thing as they shoot up and explode then as they fall to start raining on you. I havnt got anything about it specifically in the codex. But after that I’m like okay what’s going on here. I thought it was just a unique feature of that planet or part of the map or something. And now every time it starts I can’t not hear the cannons now that I watched it as it happened

[sage lark]

Since its tied to codex i dont think theyll wipe subroutines to access it

[lunar cove]

weather altering technology that's broken down over the past century

[wide orchid]

Ahhhh okay thanks that’s rad I don’t think I got that yet or maybe I missed it but I saw it and was like okay what the hell is going on here

[digital plaza]

Oh yeah maybe

Imagine someone does compiler day 1 after wipe

[keen plank]

It was a failed cloudseeding attempt. Or at least a cloud seeding program that failed over time. The colonists used the technology across the planet to help stabilize living conditions. Outpost was one of the first places on Tau Ceti's surface after the Marathon arrived, so it was "tamed" pretty quickly. We don't know how their weather & cloudseeding systems failed. Could have been natural decay. Could have been sabotage, the anomaly, rogue AI, or something else.

[digital plaza]

Map description have this info I think, also ONI sometimes will comment on this by directly stating that it’s this degraded tech that’s raining fire

[keen plank]

Remember, as ONI notes, the colonists focused more on expansion than survival.

[craggy finch]

you can read the codex file from exfilling out the map once

and there's more codex unlocked as you loot stuff from specific POIs

[keen plank]

It's becoming increasingly obvious that there's multiple aspects of Tau Ceti that didn't want people on that planet. Like the Corruption is not only a fungus, but is implied to be at least somewhat sentient. Hence why the scientists were never able to replicate or get any concrete data on it.

[craggy finch]

Dr. Song even talks to it like an adversary

while it's actively assimilating her

[wide orchid]

Oh wait I do remember hearing that now that part when I heard that the only warning people get is about the fire rain got me all messed up. It’s like the mention it like it’s naturally occurring

[sage lark]

If you get lvl 25 why not

[keen plank]

It's not naturally occuring. But at a certain point it failed and people got used to it.

[keen plank]

Because she understands it far deeper than we do. And she knows how evil it is.

What I'm curious about is how it's NOT connected to the anomaly. Is it a symptom of Tau Ceti's planet possibly being a W'rk cage? Or is it something else? The anomaly clearly enhanced it.

[sage lark]

Idk she said it waited until they settled down and set up everything

[light light]

Is there a video essay to watch to bring me up to speed w marathons lore?

[keen plank]

That seems to be the conclusion She, Darius, and Jasper all came to.

[keen plank]

Multiple. I recommend MyNameIsByf. One sec.

[light light]

thanks!

[keen plank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiJA_CAeA7U

He makes great content that's researched and well-produced. Though he's burnt himself out with his amount of effort and wants to shift back into storytelling. The content he makes is that good.

[plucky sierra]

A warning, he has fantastic videos but he does slightly editorialize/present speculation as fact occasionally

[turbid scaffold]

The mandalore gaming videos are also pretty good for getting a decent idea on the series while also being entertaining enough

Also he got the va for Gabriel from ultrakill to voice durendalls logs from the original games

[craggy finch]

I stumbled upon a small channel call NEFX, he did playthroughs of all three games on Total Carnage and also covers a bunch of mods

He misses out on a few terminals but he follows the story and spends the time to read them

[cobalt storm]

MACHINE, STOP BREAKING WINDOWS FOR MIDA

[keen plank]

Indeed. Which he'll generally admit to. For example, Durandal doesn't want to escape the Heat Death of the Universe. He wants to escape the Big Crunch. Which Byf and many others, including myself, mixed up.

Doesn't change the fact he does great work.

[turbid scaffold]

Which I think the Va for Gabriel fits the original durendal quite nicely

[warm thicket]

Late to reply but Durandal says that he tortured Strauss to death

[craggy finch]

at first I assumed the British accent was from the merge with Thoth but Cryo logs confirm this was how he always sounded

I imagined Harlan Ellison's performance as AM for his voice in the OG terminals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddX9hnhDS4&pp=ygULYW0gbW9ubG9ndWXSBwkJ2woBhyohjO8%3D

[warm thicket]

It's always been implied that Strauss was someone who's main focus was scientific progress but this new stuff basically confirms it

[turbid scaffold]

That’s fair he sounds too much like the main villain from thief 2 for me but I see what you’re saying

[warm thicket]

He noted in his log in M1 that the Marathon was one one of the UESC's good ideas

[sage lark]

HiddenXperia did something similar where he dropped like 5 speculations without finishing up the rest of the codex, which I get since you make money and why not make multiple videos on it

But its concerning

Cuz then people will roll with it

[warm thicket]

"Marathon was the only good idea that the UESC has had in a long time."

Ty karn

[keen plank]

Is that confirmed though? It wouldn't be suprising but while Durandal says he's dead and would have every reason to kill him, we never find the body.

Like Straus has a lot in common with, say, Clovis Bray and it shows.

The question is whether or not his own experiment(s) killed him or if he was able to cheat death like Bray did.

[dreamy hawk]

Where? Durandal laments not being able to humiliate Strauss in the original games but he dies at the hands of the Pfhor pretty clearly based off of his journal.

[plucky sierra]

It’s fine as long as they acknowledge that it’s speculation and not definite

[light light]

got to a part about the wrkncacter and immediately recognized ror2 music, i think,

[silk whale]

My whole team whiffed against 2 rooks a couple nights ago and I was carrying a xenobiopsy (purple lore item), I was torn up 😭

[craggy finch]

shit that would have been the holy grail for me

itching for any OG Marathon reference codex

[deep solar]

Bout to hit a lore accurate Destroyer Arm Day in the gym

[craggy finch]

Destroyers are leg day guys all day

Tom Platz of Shells

world record 100m sprint

[deep solar]

Gotta have a solid upper body too to get that THRUSTER KNIFE just right

A true destroyer neglects no muscle groups in the gym

[craggy finch]

inheriting the Security Officer's running punch

there should be a skin for the knife that's just your fists

[deep solar]

Bungie just let us use our fists

[silk whale]

Yes, with the cybernetic brass knuckles

[deep solar]

I don’t need a weapon

[shadow dove]

is durandal trapped on the marathon in this timeline?

[sage lark]

Its complicated

[keen plank]

Indeed.

[light light]

Gorilla fists

[keen plank]

||Basically, there's increasing evidence that there's two of them. The godlike one from 2/Infinity. And the small piece of him he left behind by consuming IDEA as a survival mechanism. They seem to be aware of each other and communicate.

The one doing most of the in-game talking is likely the one on the ship. He's the one who invited us to the Cryo Archive so we could deal with the (stronger than normal) Compiler and let him get access to the other decks.

*"I think we'll make great friends. And even better enemies." *||

||The big one seems to have been the one quoting Ozymandias in the reveal cinematic. Both of them are watching us as kind of grand, manipulative observers. But the big one does care about humanity out of a sense of guilt/self interest.||

[silk whale]

Yeah I was gonna say.... All this like quoting Ozymandias being all dark and creepy... Like okay I guess that could be Durandal?

But then the cryo archive contract text... The snark, the sarcasm, the self-deprication . . . That's the Durandal voice I remember!

[wild gull]

Here for the lore and story of Durandal. Played Marathan 2 back in the day.

Notice that the game title is "Marathon". Not "Marathon 4" or something as a continuation. Maybe it is part of marathon 1 timeline.

[keen plank]

It is. But it’s also a soft reboot sequel. All of the previous series’ events happened. But the nature of Infinity makes things weird.

[digital plaza]

God of war/Star wars battlefront/DOOM/Tomb raider type shit

[earnest hatch]

Has anyone talked about how Pfhor seem to have been confirmed as being on Tau Ceti in this game? Was not expecting them to confirm that for certain. I just read this passage from Xenobiopsy:
||…dissection on an extraterrestrial combatant… The specimen is 193 centimeters tall… it presents a mix of arthropodal and vertebrate characteristics…||

[craggy finch]

yeah that's the only direct reference to them from what I recall

the invasion is discussed but the main focus is on the S'pht in most logs

[wild gull]

cant wait to see these enemies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVKZR0PELsg

[craggy finch]

yeah Hunters would be a beast to fight

also want to see how the lower tier enemies like Fighters and Troopers would be translated

[uneven shell]

is the thing we see floating in the hallway in the alberto mielgo cinematic a compiler?
https://youtu.be/5oAXso6hMU8?t=66

[wild gull]

what about mara infinity do you think is challenging to integrate to this story?

[craggy finch]

what time stamp?

[uneven shell]

1:06

[craggy finch]

ah yeah

the red fits

they've essentially appeared in the major cinematics

all the way back to announcement then they make the big entrance in the music video

[keen plank]

Many things. Particularly all the timelines.

[wild gull]

2 timelines, 1 with tyco focus, 1 with durandal, both fail and end in chaos.

but the final one seems to be that durandal fuses and avoids the end of the universe.

[wild gull]

the unique element is something outside of time, allowing the main character to another dimension to hop timelines, electric sheep.

something beyond time and destiny XD

[earnest hatch]

If anything the timelines make it easier to integrate the story.

[keen plank]

Oh that’s not even getting into the W’rk stuff.

Infinity is a wild game. In a good way.

[wild gull]

my guess, is a darker timeline where it continues from mara 1.

[zenith wave]

Pondering
What is the reason behind the very specific amount of 147 UESC units you have to kill for the Antiestablishment achievement?
(If there is one to begin with)

[keen plank]

I’m not sure.

Bungie really likes the number seven. But I’m not sure what 147 means.

[zenith wave]

I may scour around for it but tbh I legit have a feeling they just chose that amount at random

[craggy finch]

I noticed one of the NuCal vehicle textures has the numbers 0451 printed on them

That's famously a recurring immersive sim password (starting from System Shock) and even Deus Ex Human Revolution uses it

[keen plank]

Those are NuCaloric product numbers. At least according to the founder’s audio log.

[craggy finch]

some other numbers may be references

[wild gull]

one key theme. what is survival in this world. when there is just shells, and digitized consciousness.

[light light]

I’m confused. So Traxus and seki are owned by the UESC? And then nucal is owned by traxus?

[wild gull]

it was funny when i saw the new movie "hail mary" mention humanity trying to explore tau ceti to survive a dying sun.

[digital plaza]

77 + 70 = 147

:p

[light light]

Multiple of 7, number is special to bungie but I can’t remember why

7 is special to bungie*

[digital plaza]

No?

Where did you get that from

[light light]

Then I misunderstood the guy

[digital plaza]

Corps and UESC have mutual agreements with one another, but they all completely independent

[zenith wave]

Aaaaaah of course of course

[light light]

Oh ok

[zenith wave]

Fair

[stone cosmos]

UESC - FBI / Bill Clinton Presents the Illuminati
CyberAcme - Google / Amazon
NuCaloric - Monsanto / McDonalds
Traxus - Lockheed-Martin
MIDA - Antifa
Arachne - We Have The Witness At Home
Sakeguchi - uhhhh

[light light]

Oh ok

[digital plaza]

Why did you make MIDA dirty like that bro 😭

[stone cosmos]

Antifa has transgirl supersoldiers, so does MIDA.

[sage lark]

Traxus is more BlackRock than anything

[wild gull]

another timeline for marathon2, through fate and destiny.

https://youtu.be/Yv46rG-z92o?si=cyCWGX6B8qpU9b6U

[warm thicket]

@keen plank Oh I thought he himself did the deed

Since he spoke about Strauss begging to die and all

[sage lark]

Huh

When is that

[uneven shell]

so i'm just reading the codex entries about rampancy. so do all AIs have an effective lifespan of 7 years before they go insane?

[keen plank]

I am sure he either would have wanted to or wanted to set things up so that he could watch it.

Truth is we’re sent to find him and never find the body.

[light light]

i was under the impression durandal went rampant since he was designated only to open doors

[uneven shell]

the entry on jealousy is like... why would you even make a thing that could be this dangerous lol

[keen plank]

Durandal assumes he’s dead. Which is probable. But boy is he biased towards wanting it to happen regardless of how/if it did.

Straus tortured him for years. At least over a decade.

[uneven shell]

"you pass butter"

[keen plank]

Yep! That’s part of it. He was (partially) intentionally tortured through sheer boredom.

[light light]

wasnt it strasses experiment to see if he cold make a stable rampancy?

also sorry about any typos my keyboard is so messed up

[craggy finch]

Durandal, Tycho, and Leela were seemingly active the entire 300+ years of the Marathon's voyage, so it's not likely that Halo rules apply

[keen plank]

I’ll repost what I said earlier. One sec.

[craggy finch]

The precaution against rampancy on the Marathon expedition was having a whole suite of AI to balance each other out

it's an emotional state thing

[keen plank]

Straus instructed the other colonists to, in the case of a concerning AI, isolate them, take them offline, ignore them, or casually reset them.

Darius was taken offline and locked up. Joyuse was ignored and increasingly frustrated. Both were steadily impacted by the corruption. And to an extent, the anomaly. (Especially Darius. It’s what truly drove him mad.)

Meanwhile Joyuse watched more and more people die to what seems to be a sentient fungal corruption that may even transform people into monsters.

Eventually she was left alone. And wanted to die herself despite not being able to.

Here’s the horrifying part: Straus wanted this.

Straus was part of MIDA, but not necessarily because he agreed with them. He used them to smuggle 10 Battleroids on board the Marathon. Also got specific staff that he wanted. Lied to the other colonists constantly, and is responsible for tormenting Durandal to the point the entire series happens because the AI just wants to escape.

And he was advertised as being part of the expedition.

He’s an absolute manipulative bastard. And we have never found out what happened to him either.

[uneven shell]

ohhh gotcha. I'm not too familiar with the halo lore, but it makes sense that's where i heard it

i assumed the 777 thing was related somehow

[craggy finch]

Strauss just being offscreened during the Pfhor invasion basically has to be false

he's got a lot of set up for a dead guy otherwise

[light light]

Is the anomaly the anomalous matter from dire marsh? and also do you mean uesc was publicl saying "Strauss is onboard the marathon so yall gotta wanna come"?

[craggy finch]

yeah it creates the anomalous matter

The Anomaly basically comes from the entire planet

[craggy finch]

Strauss was advertised by CyberAcme as an expert in AI and rampancy, to keep the AI safe

[light light]

oh ok

[sudden pollen]

Well... he certainly was an expert 💀

Not in a GOOD way

[latent python]

And he kept one of the AI safe

[light light]

im a little confused by this but ok

[craggy finch]

It's a gravity event basically, twists space and leaves stuff suspended in the air (also blows people up)

[light light]

oh neat

[latent python]

The anomaly seems to be coming up from inside the planet, we have no idea how far down it goes

[uneven shell]

It'd be cool if the in-game codex actually had a search. Given that they all have tags

[austere elk]

It'd be nice if going to source for things actually went to the source instead of just tossing a book at me and going 'somewhere in there nerd lmao'

[keen plank]

It’s PR speak.

“Don’t worry about rampancy. Don’t worry about what Traxus IV did on Mars. WE have the best of the best. Including…Doctor Bernard Strauss.”

You see it in the audio log of the public interview. He’s not there, but used as a reassurance.

[latent python]

We have a searchable fan codex, does that help?

[austere elk]

we have great AI scientists, I would say the best

Bigly preventing rampancy

[craggy finch]

Tremendous

Many people are saying Strauss is the greatest AI guy

[keen plank]

@light light , as for the anomaly, no one has any idea what the heck it is and many groups are trying or have been trying to figure it out. But it’s terrifying.

It ages or temporally traps anyone biological into a permanent hell. It turns UESC bots into half-sentient hyper killing machines. It enhanced the seemingly sentient fungal corruption. And most concerningly, it may be connected to the W’rk with Tau Ceti’s planet being a leaking cage for one.

Too early to tell on that last point of course.

[austere elk]

well, I don't think that's true

I think the UESC has a pretty good idea

[uneven shell]

yeah for sure, it'd just be a nice little sprinkle of immersion to be able to actually do research in-game

[craggy finch]

Bungie needs to do a lot of optimising for the codex, even when I look for a skin that requires a specific codex challenge it just sends me to the codex directory when I look for the source lol

[uneven shell]

dude yes, i hate that lol

[light light]

sick i hope we get to fight one even though we technicaly cant win i wanna see what they look like

[keen plank]

They look apparently mostly the same. But are far more optimized on the programming side and more intelligent. Not sentient but semi sentient.

One sec.

[keen plank]

LOG #9348

Generating overview of unit capabilities…

ADAPTABILITY: operational; +63.64%
SPONTANEOUS INNOVATION: operational; +87.62%
ENVIRONMENTAL MONITORING ACUITY: operational; +41.25%
RESPONSE TIME: operational; +74.44%
fatality scoresSUPPRESS GROWTH significantly aboveERADICATE PEST average unit capability
engaging in creative elaborationOBSCURE SIGHT on standard CERBERUS procedures; mission prioritiesEXTINGUISH EXTINGUISH EXTINGUISH dynamically revised 2649 times in last evaluation period

[light light]

is the w'rk different from the wrkncactus?

[sage lark]

im not familiar with any cactus

[latent python]

It's faster to type

[light light]

wrkncacenator

i havent a clue how to spell it

[sage lark]

W'rkncacnter

[light light]

oh ok

so the wrk is the wrkncacnter

[sage lark]

we just cba to type it out

[digital plaza]

Wrkbaconator

[light light]

wrkncarbonator

carburetor

cactus is more fun

[austere elk]

workin cactus

[sage lark]

working counter

work encounter

[robust vale]

Work In Kanter

[neat fiber]

Do you think Runner Rampancy is possible?

No right?

They just get dc'd

[thick willow]

Where is the server that runners are stored on

[neat fiber]

Wait actually yeah where is it

[sudden pollen]

Could be

[digital plaza]

TCIV orbit

[thick willow]

I don't think runner rampancy would look the same as AI

We kind of get our personality reset each time we go in a shell right

[lunar cove]

Wrknkakinator will guess your character in 20 questions

[digital plaza]

No?

Different shells have different personality matrixes to help runners mind better adjust to the shell they’re currently inhabit

It’s more like a included tutorial/navigation that helps you act accordingly with shells capabilities

Or something like that

[restive cedar]

I am just making this up but I feel like the average shell is used by rich people to live longer, we're using specialized Runner shells that are made for specific purposes

[next ingot]

I've been asking that question myself. is it in the Sol system? is it suspended in space near Tau Ceti? where do you go once you've extracted?

[restive cedar]

I just wanna know how the shells actually get to TCIV, are they getting teleported by cyac or airdropped by nucal or what

[digital plaza]

You infil from TCIV orbit ship and you exfil to TCIV orbit ship

[digital plaza]

Pretty much yea

[worn karma]

What is Gabriel? I've seen a few references to it

[sage lark]

Colony AI

Medical

[digital plaza]

Shells are being printed in orbital ship and then teleported to TCIV ground

[restive cedar]

Oh I missed that there was another ship in orbit besides the marathon, that makes sense

[digital plaza]

There are multiple of them, Orion’s team have something similar

They print shells and ARS and teleport them to TCIV/marathon as we do

[next ingot]

pretty interesting that this ship is never really shown in the videos - maybe only the interior portion with the memory calibration in the reveal trailer

[restive cedar]

Yeah that's why I didn't think of that as a possibility lol

[next ingot]

I like to think that Arc Raiders' rich exodus people are the same people in this universe who are associated with the factions

[keen plank]

Reposting:

Here are all AI currently in Marathon. Written by Bernard Strauss:

Ship AI:

Durandal - Du_0706419v4.96 – Goal-oriented; creative; focused. Underutilized; tends to brood. Need to find ways to distract. SCIENG crew to be kept informed, but I’ll keep an eye on this myself.

(There is seemingly two different versions as well.)

Leela - Le_0413418v5.06 – Adaptable; detail-oriented. Second best candidate for colony oversight once mission enters second phase.

Tycho - Ty_2121418v5.06 – Proactive; assertive. Can be overbearing; monitor interactions with Durandal. Be sure to inform SCIENG crew.

Colony AI:

👑 Arthur - Ar_1814419v4.93 – Benevolent autocrat; no-nonsense; problem solver. Classic patriarchal authority figure. 👑

Bastion - Ba_0423419v4.89 – Problem solver; confident, bordering on boastful. May need to go onto accelerated re-compile cycle, inform SCIENG crew.

🧑‍🌾 Darius - Da_1907420v4.86 – Dutiful; diligent; motivated. Always puts others ahead of self. May need to address this at some point. 🧑‍🌾

🏥 Gabriel - Ga_2815420v4.81 – Compassionate; empathetic, transparent. Perhaps our greatest achievement to date. Will most likely need to be moved to an accelerated re-compile cycle at some point. 🏥

‼️ Icarus - Ic_1624420v4.73 – Motivated; assertive; proactive. Will need to keep isolated from Tycho or establish hierarchy at outset. Inform SCIENG of situation. ‼️

Joyeuse - Jo_0309421v4.69 – Resilient; optimistic; patient. Colony AI: defense, training

Lilith - Li_1817421v4.65 – Focused; assertive; good communicator. Designated candidate for colony oversite during second phase.

Naarah - Na_0602422v4.61 – Proactive; goal-oriented; committed. May need to be reminded from time to time about their primary function; inform SCIENG crew.

(credits to Felwinter from Cyberac )

[visual lynx]

this is just copied from the second ARG, no need to credit Felwinter

[keen plank]

True but he’s the one who compiled and reposted it here. I’ve tried to add context and emojis for simplification.

IDurandal and Thoth technically raise the number of AI to 13 I gusss.

[digital plaza]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/uesc-marathon-model/tau-ceti-iv-colony-ai?directory=World,Cryo+Archive

• entire cerebral record series

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/cerebral-record?directory=World,Dire+Marsh

[keen plank]

You’re the best, Dodo. As always.

[summer holly]

why is the marathon ship suspended in the moon

[digital plaza]

Moon is part of the ship

[twin trout]

moon has resources, drones mine moon, build prefabs to establish colony

[west trout]

yes, there is an almost direct allusion to at least one battleroid having been present, and a vague hint that may or may not relate to others.

Co-evolution 1/5 Laboratory Transcript:
`TOPIC: Biocybernetic Grafting
SUMMARY: Discussion regarding an abortive experiment. The limb mentioned appears to be specialized for combat operations.

[RJER]: …not too surprised that it failed. Moreno didn't keep notes so much as vomit out the contents of his brain every few weeks… and going by these logs, he didn't have much of that left by the end.
[SQIN]: Let's have a little more respect for the dead.
[RJER]: Mm, that'd have more impact if you weren't microplaning that arm like it was Parmesan cheese.
[SQIN]: Don't talk about food right now. And a severed limb is different from a deceased colleague.
[RJER]: You know there used to be a guy attached to that arm, right?
[SQIN]: I think "a guy" is underselling it. Whoever this was attached to was something…
[RJER]: Something else?
[SQIN]: Yeah, that's a start.
//ERR: DECRYPTION FAILURE
…
[SQIN]: …won't like no for an answer. He's looking for anything that gives him more firepower.
[RJER]: He'll have to find it somewhere else. Cybernetics are custom-made for the host, so we're at a dead end. The implant doesn't recognize Moreno's weird goo as valid human tissue.
[SQIN]: We can't leave with nothing. Let's try something less ambitious: just the interface chip from the limb. Submerge it in the modified growth medium and see if it assimilates. Moreno's notes talk about something like that.
[RJER]: Moreno didn't have anyone holding him accountable. We try that and it doesn't work, it'll damage the chip beyond repair.
[SQIN]: Everything's beyond repair around here. What do we have to lose?`

RJER and SQIN are working with what almost certainly appears to be a severed battleroid arm. It's likely they're trying (and failing) to get its chips to work with the growth medium from:

[distant cedar]

Are the Terminals still online?

[west trout]

Parasitism 3/5, Maverick Research

SUMMARY: Decrypted colony-era experiments on potential applications of an unknown biotic sample. This report belongs to F. Moreno, UESC biohazard technician. It does not adhere to any known safety standards.

//DECRYPTING EXPERIMENT 55: "…principal investigators dead or missing. Caruso [REDACTED], security around the sample is down. Don't have to worry about my career anymore… Took the cells we were able to collect from beneath the claws of the god-damned [REDACTED]. Added 1 mL to tissue growth medium yesterday. Checked this morning. Growth medium changed. Colors. Patterns. Smells warm, alive, saline, metallic. Beats like a heart." //DECRYPTING EXPERIMENT 58: "…modified growth medium unstable. Overspills containers. Shoved it in a containment field but it complains. Low grumpy gurgle. [REDACTED] must add something to raw organic material. Purpose? Life? Desire?" //DECRYPTING EXPERIMENT 67: "…deceased plant versus animal versus fungal specimens exposed to modified growth medium. Strong benefit for animal and fungal, but different effects. Not pursuing fungal, too many similarities to Song's ramblings on [REDACTED] [REDACTED] wrong kind of attention. No, this thing wants meat." //DECRYPTING EXPERIMENT 91: "…should work, must work, doesn't work. Medium accelerates life. Medium has characteristics for revivifying necrotic tissue. Eye for eye, more than enough. So why not us? What's wrong with human cells? I've given you blood, all the blood I can! I heard the old stories! I believe them! You have to save us again!" [The remaining files are increasingly fragmented and incoherent, with no experimental data.]

Moreno is performing experiments with this growth medium. I believe the sample he's taken has come from a battleroid that was injured by something with claws during the attack. It's unclear, but "you have to save us again!" might be directed at the battleroid itself.

[opal cairn]

excellent stuff thank you. I was like 70% that they existed given how it seems biomata seems like a way of evading the rules on borgs and especially that it seemed like the phfor attack was really messy for the normal security/colonists and would've been impossible to fight off alone, but thought that'd itd be an interesting angle to take. thank you

[west trout]

worth mentioning that I think the growth medium (gel that infuses biological matter with life in some way) is what SekGen have the runner experiment with during these quest-lines; the basis of the SIMbiont. I haven't got as far as those quests myself yet though, so I'm missing a lot of context

I also believe it's native to TCIV, and part of the whole "intelligent redesign of the ecology to combat human presence" thing that was going on, due to being completely unreactive to anything with human DNA. It seems to work extremely well with the fungus though, to the point where Moreno links it to Song's observations on the behaviour of the fungus that spread the novel infection.

Conjecture: the "growth medium" is a key part of whatever system is responsible for the weaponisation of the ecology against the colonists.

[dreamy hawk]

I read those and somehow never connected the dots. Nice/thank you, @west trout !

[earnest hatch]

I don’t think so. They’re all dark. Which is disappointing.

[distant cedar]

😭

[west trout]

the only other one that might be talking about battleroids (and the more I read the less I think it is, really) is:

Run/Hide 6/6, [REDACTED] Post Mortem 1

We cannot be certain how the [REDACTED] event could have been prevented or its fallout mitigated, if it could be at all. Increased defensive and offensive resources would have helped, but during mission planning, [REDACTED] reasonably assessed the threat risk of [REDACTED] as "extremely unlikely" and identified any spending on these resources as "a logical lapse with severe quality-of-life consequences for colonists," due to reduced budget in other areas. Despite this, multiple official appeals from the Fermi Group pre-launch resulted in lower cost "just-in-case" measures, such as the development of [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] was designed to be reprogrammable, and upon arrival in Tau Ceti IV, once initial threat assessment was deemed complete, was repurposed into [REDACTED] for [REDACTED]. Unfortunately, [REDACTED] could not be reverted in time to prevent or assist with the [REDACTED] event.

At first I wondered if the reprogrammable REDACTEDs that are mentioned here were battleroids, but it seems way more likely that they were just automated units of some sort (military drones, possibly the ones we see in M1 that do get reprogrammed to be hostile in some cases) that got repurposed for other usage (likely surveying).

[twilit current]

the shells influence our personality, like a mask, to help runners adapt to jumping between different bodies

runners are probably stored in ships that are associated with whatever faction/clique youre a part of: for example, Archomatic Rush from the rewards pass probably have a ship of their own

[west trout]

I'm pretty sure ONI tells us that when we're not in a shell (post shell-"death", eg) we're just stored in a buffer until we're downloaded to a new shell again

I doubt it's always been that way for runners in Sol, this generation of shells are new (ish), and likely the journey to TCIV means sending digital consciousnesses without organic bodies is logistically much more viable. No need for food/etc to keep the original body alive and kicking

[opal cairn]

Yea that seems likely based on "could not be reverted in time to prevent or assist" when the roids definitely saved the colony completely. There's definitely a lack of mention due to them being hidden even possibly from the UESC (going off the og game) and the fact that even if discovered by TCIV leadership afterwards that'd be insanely redacted and hard to find even by us years later

[west trout]

"completely" is a bit much, there's a decent confirmation from Orion that the UESC reports from the attack show huge casualties and (I believe) abductions. But the fact they weren't all wiped out and the colony continued to operate after the fact is likely due to the battleroids; the post-action report from a UESC member present at the time (heavily redacted) mentions that they don't know how they survived exactly, it was some sort of "miracle" - that's probably the BR swinging the tide.

Orion's report does mention both an intel lockdown and asymmetric tactics in the colony defense:

Accounts of the event are fairly consistent, but extremely vague. It's pretty clear our UESC forebearers were engaging in an intel lockdown. But in what we can find, we've got strong evidence of asymmetric tactics.

So there's a good chance that few colonists even witnessed the BR in action, and all records at the time were suppressed or redacted.

[sharp radish]

so, I am confused about something, how long was New Arcadia up before the Marathon went boom?

[drifting garnet]

meanwhile, finishes Return on Investment 3/5

Ah there we go: Orion has put together Traxus (and probably the other factions) directly interfering in UESC operations on TCIV…it’s just that his hands are tied on doing any direct legal action against Traxus & co leadership, ‘cause even his bosses are going “uhhh, no you’re fucking not going to touch the corpo execs!”

Which emphasizes the point that a.) yup, this is cyberpunk alright, where even the official military can do nothing against corpos and b.) why Traxus and the other factions are bold enough to do what they’re doing on TCIV

[sage lark]

Its New Cascadia, and about 7 years I think

[distant cedar]

Longer actually
They arrived in like the late 2770s and only by 2794 did the Pfhor attack

[sage lark]

they asked how long the colony was established before the Marathon got attacked

not since when they came to the system

[distant cedar]

Was that only 7 years though?

[turbid scaffold]

The redacted bits seem to be a mixture of the pfor, battleroids, the ai’s, and one other thing?

[sage lark]

I believe it was finished in 2787

[distant cedar]

Hm, even so, my other point, theres likely quite the gap between "Colony fully established" and the first outpost ie Pinwheel touchdown etc

[sage lark]

the question was how long was New Cascadia up

[west trout]

I'm pretty sure (see above) that it's not talking about the battleroids here.

[turbid scaffold]

That makes sense im just kinda throwing my 2 cents in

[west trout]

If I had to hazard some educated guesses I'd go for:

We cannot be certain how the [CONTACT] event could have been prevented or its fallout mitigated, if it could be at all. Increased defensive and offensive resources would have helped, but during mission planning, [UESC COMMAND] reasonably assessed the threat risk of [ESI CONTACT] as "extremely unlikely" and identified any spending on these resources as "a logical lapse with severe quality-of-life consequences for colonists," due to reduced budget in other areas. Despite this, multiple official appeals from the Fermi Group pre-launch resulted in lower cost "just-in-case" measures, such as the development of [SOME SORT OF WEAPON]. [UNKNOWN WEAPON] was designed to be reprogrammable, and upon arrival in Tau Ceti IV, once initial threat assessment was deemed complete, was repurposed into [CIVILIAN EQUIPMENT] for [NON-MILTARY PURPOSE]. Unfortunately, [UNKNOWN WEAPON] could not be reverted in time to prevent or assist with the [CONTACT] event.

I'm still unsure on what this weapon was; given that it's reprogrammable, referred to in the singular, redacted, and what it was reprogrammed to be, and its alternative use are both redacted as well, makes me wonder if it wasn't some sort of AI...

But the big part is that it's listed as "lower-cost" and basically ineffective once repurposed; battleroids might fulfil the lower-cost part given one description of them in early Marathon titles, but neither reprogrammable nor essentially useless for military purpose once reprogrammed fit with them,

[terse tundra]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DWcHxucEzpN/?next=%2FA beverage crafted from arthropods native to the New Cascadia region of Tau Ceti. It tastes similar to a strong spirit, though it contains no alcohol. "There is no need for colonists to complain about the source or the taste of their food." — GAIUS, NuCaloric Agricultural

[west trout]

I wonder if the AI thing is maybe close to the mark, given some of the ERG pieces about the rumours of a specialised type of AI being included, and Joy being a potentially alternative name for Joyeuse.
Possibly Joy was the thing included as a maybe-needed measure that was reprogrammed into her eventual use, and then couldn't be reverted to assist.

But I don't think this is right; too many other mentions of Joy as simply Joy including in mission statements etc, and she's always listed as one of the colony AI with no hint of alternative military use at any point.

[west trout]

that reminds me:

Drinkable Cheeseburger; New Cascadia Potluck:

"Tamarind" fizz: APPROVED for ages 13 and older. Never heard of it before, but Joy says tamarind was an extinct fruit tree on Earth.

Data Reconstruction 1/3; Agriculture Inspection:

[CSNG]: Their nesting medium smells like… tamarind? Might be edible when dry. I'll bring some back to Darius for analysis.

[terse tundra]

hhhhh】

Very interesting

Praise the god of agriculture and production

[drifting garnet]

I still get a laugh at how 343 also had the idea to continue Bungie’s legacy with The Weapon from Halo Infinite via her getting renamed to Joyeuse…and fast forward to now with Marathon 2026, we also have an AI named Joy/euse.

Even though it’s not being worked on them anymore, seems like Halo’s still inadvertently part of the Bungie Multiverse, lol

[turbid scaffold]

Always has been

[lunar cove]

In Halo 4/5, the AI in charge of the Infinity is named Roland, who is the guy who historically owned the sword Durandal

He's not named after that Roland though, he's named after a different historical Roland who flew fighter jets

[drifting garnet]

Ehhhhhh close enough, lol

[ashen needle]

Ironically neither Roland or Durandal were named after the mythological figures. Roland in Halo is named after a fighter pilot. And Durandal in Marathon is named after a bomb.

[austere elk]

a bomb?

[lunar cove]

The bomb is named after the sword

[ashen needle]

Greg Kirkpatrick (Bungie) writes concerning the spelling of Durandal's name:

...I first heard the name in reference to an anti-runway bomb used in F-16 Fighting Falcon, and they spelled it 'Durandal'. Later, when I read the song of Roland, I saw the other spelling, but just assumed that the 'a' had come into it as an anglicization of the word and that the translator of the book had just kept the 'e' to use the original spelling. When we stuck the text in from "The Song of Roland" it seemed like it would have just looked like we misspelled it in the quote.

[dreamy hawk]

TIL. Love it.

[plucky sierra]

I think they have since leaned heavily into the mythological origins, especially with the naming convention of the new game

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t know. I think the Marathon is pretty obviously bomb shaped.

[dense tendon]

out of curiosity, what are the other AIs named after? Tycho and Leela, at least. both have always stuck out to me as having relatively normal names compared to the guy what opens doors

[dreamy hawk]

Leela is thought to be named after the Dr. Who companion iirc.

Not sure about Tycho.

[ashen needle]

Tycho Brahe the danish astronomer

[distant cedar]

Given it says could not be reverted in time during the Pfhor attack its most certainly not the Roids (which UESC command wasnt exactly aware off im pretty sure)

[west trout]

yep, agreed; that's probably the biggest indicator that it isn't them

[dreamy hawk]

Roids also wouldn’t have been planned/accounted for.

[dense tendon]

which means, since tycho is a latinized form of tyge, brahe's birth name, our pfhor collaborator is essentially named a diminutive of Thor.

[plucky sierra]

In hindsight you can make mythological connections to each one, so far most AI have a mythic name

[dense tendon]

looking into the character of leela, it also seems that her culture was simply a degenerated future offshoot of a british survey team. meaning that her name, leela, is probably just the somewhat uncommon british name leela, as well. which has its roots in sanskrit. doesn't seem to mean anything similarly mythological. not that i think it was supposed to be, its just funny.

oh, wait. i'm silly. leela is an alternate spelling of lila.

which is a hindu concept asserting divinity creates for fun.

[plucky sierra]

Tycho is also a male spelling of Tyche greek goddess of fortune

so myth connections can be made, despite the origin of the name not coming from mythology

[dense tendon]

i mean, even the origins of the origin are mythological

i would also argue that thor is more thematically relevant than tyche.

[west trout]

we have another legendary sword weilder, if not the sword, in the colony AI too

(Arthur)

[plucky sierra]

we don't know for sure if Joy is Joyeuse, not a single spelling of Joyeuse in the codex, but its probably that

Darius is also the Persian king who fought the greeks at Marathon

[dense tendon]

if you can't tell, obscure mythological references are my personal hobby. what with the being named after the indigenous peoples of america's trickster deity.

[plucky sierra]

The amount of obscure myth names on the UESC related codex entries is awesome

[lunar cove]

They should name an AI Kokopelli and he makes you run into Wile E Coyote tunnels painted onto brick walls

[west trout]

Heh, I also like how the UESC Marathon Model entry still has its editor notes included, for:

Over 30,000 [close enough?] people

Due to:

Complement: 50 senior staff 1150 officers 4800 crew 24 000 colonists

There are precisely 30,000 on board XD

[dense tendon]

according to the chemehuevi, coyote is the grandfather of the first horse. who wasn't born a horse, but was cursed to become a sheep, then died and was reborn as the first horse.

this is relevant to exactly nothing, it is just a WILD story

[lunar cove]

Chemeheuvi would be a sick name for like, a battleship

I realize that's apropos of nothing it just would be

[cloud terrace]

Did that myth start when the horse was reintroduced to America? It'd be wild if it started so so long ago and when it finally came back the shamans finally had something to point at

[dense tendon]

i could not tell you

that'd make sense, tho

[keen plank]

Coyote is a very old god and can be traced back to a few different indigenous cultures.

He essentially codified our modern idea of “the trickster god.”

Modern interpretations of Loki and Set play into it of course. But Coyote was deeply influential for multiple centuries.

[dense tendon]

yep

[keen plank]

I’ve read a few of his stories. They’re always entertaining but he doesn’t really think like humans do. He thinks like animals do while also being inherently alien and acting mostly based on whatever amuses him at the time.

[dense tendon]

sounds a bit like a couple digital fellas we know

[keen plank]

Hah.

By the way. I appreciate the Gunnerkrigg Court pfp. The story is getting quite good.

[dense tendon]

im going to be so super honest i fell off reading that like ten years ago and finding out its still going is crazy work to me

[keen plank]

The story is…according to a recent AMA, probably in the last 30%. Lots of payoffs such as Omega.

[west trout]

huh, TIL TCIV has a name. Argolis.

[austere elk]

according to who?

[west trout]

if this is in reference to the TCIV name, UESC Marathon Captain Clemente di Roxas lists it in the colony mission statement in the UESC Marathon Model codex

[dreamy hawk]

WORST-CASE SCENARIO. In the unlikely event that the Colony is found to be beyond recovery for any of the situations stated above, it may become necessary to destroy all surface assets and reassess potential sites for a new colony on Argolis (ref. doc. W-95(t)01143/Project: Marathon).

It’s also mentioned in the Goliath Memoranda.

[west trout]

yes, knew I had seen it somewhere else before too

[dreamy hawk]

I had also somehow never noticed that either.

[west trout]

makes some amount of sense; Tau Ceti is the star, TCIV is just the fourth body from the star. Sol IV would be Mars, eg

[austere elk]

wait that's not TCIV?

the colony is already on TCIV

[west trout]

TCIV = Argolis

[austere elk]

referring it to by two different names in the same statement is definitely not confusing

[lunar cove]

It's a nomenclature thing

Earth is technically "Sol III"

[austere elk]

well I take it back they only referenced it once as that name

[lunar cove]

The Moon is Sol IIIa

[austere elk]

I know that

[lunar cove]

I should get hipster about planet names

[west trout]

and also haunted

[lunar cove]

They should make all the exoplanets into planets so we can have a 15 planet system instead of 8

[austere elk]

you can't prove all those dissidents disappeared there pal

[lunar cove]

Make Haumea and Makemake planets. Make Pluto and Charon co-planets

[dreamy hawk]

Pluto is so cute.

[lunar cove]

But we call them like, Sol XIV

[west trout]

I'm a big fan of the theory that Terra/Luna are actually a binary planet system rather than a planet and moon. It's literally all just down to semantics rather than any weird science stuff, but it's a fun theory

[austere elk]

Binary planet system (same planet)

[lunar cove]

That's another thing we gotta get hipster about, I'm not calling them Terra and Luna that's too Warhammer coded

They're gonna be Tellus and Selene

[austere elk]

Luna isn't I feel, Terra absolutely is

[turbid scaffold]

Gaia?

[turbid scaffold]

Isn’t the difference between a moon and a planet just the size difference between the two and if they orbit each other rather than the star in the system

[west trout]

depends on the definition used, hence "semantics"

[turbid scaffold]

i c

[icy prism]

got a random nerdy question. what's thief's accent i can't quite pin down where her accent is from

[west trout]

definitions of stuff in space change relatively frequently. Hence Pluto's demotion. In Marathon, the UESC deliberately did it to Deimos, eg, so they could buy it.

[lunar cove]

Yeah Gaia works

[sterile pond]

is there any reason why rook is made of uesc branded parts

[icy prism]

oh yeah tau ceti 4 is definitely a part of a binary planet system

[eternal knoll]

terra's OK imo. humans are terrans in starcraft. old word

[lunar cove]

He's a generic construction/labour bot

[sterile pond]

like a uesc drone?

or to be exact a drone that was repurposed into a shell

[lunar cove]

The runner shells are like ferraris and Rook is like a 1999 toyota corolla

Not a military drone iirc but pretty much

[austere elk]

no, shell workers are a thing, triage's entry mentions this

so it's probably purpose made, but it doesn't need insane personality matrixes for picking up a box

[lunar cove]

Rooks aren't meant to have runners in them but some runners mod the chassis to take them

[west trout]

I believe there are two things influencing the "dual planet" theory for Earth/Moon:

• the moon is made of mass from the earth and not something that later got trapped in its orbit.
• the moon is massive enough to make the centre of gravity of the two bodies is at a certain point further away from earth's centre of gravity (I don't know the specifics of this, and I think this is where some definitions cause the differentiation)

[eternal knoll]

maybe in space amazon they give workers shells that can't experience tedium

[austere elk]

no, but they have an AI that tells you you're doing great and shouldn't experience tedium, it effects productivity

[sterile pond]

as you said they were made for labor jobs but was shell tech available when the marathon departed?

[west trout]

Rooks specifically aren't shells. Check out their codex entries. Runners jury-rig them with something that allows them to pilot them in a manner similar to a shell, but at greatly reduced capacity and comfort.

[keen plank]

Basically they’re another choice for the various runners who choose to just scavenge.

Every single runner consciousness can pick their shell each time they’re reborn. But many seem to settle on one.

[lunar cove]

I don't believe it was in the originals, I'd need to check the timeline

[sterile pond]

so like literal makeshift shells
now i ask where do they make them

if thats the case

[west trout]

I don't believe so. Shell tech is still only just being adopted when preparations for the S&R mission are being proposed

[lunar cove]

Rooks are also like, clearly more robotic than the shells, which are worm-woven

[west trout]

I believe they're printed, similar to the ARSes

[sage lark]

mid 2800s is when Shells became a thing

[west trout]

so likely on whatever ship/ships the UESC have in-system

[keen plank]

We see that in their character select quotes too. They’re like a half-step designed to be disposable so the runners can make an easy buck while also playing around the UESC’s various systems and security measures.

[lunar cove]

You can find UESC "rook" bodies on some maps that don't come from players

[sterile pond]

so basically made from salvaged uesc drone parts

[austere elk]

I feel that's an assumption that they aren't the previous attempts by runners less fortunate

[keen plank]

At least partially. They’re pretty unique compared to proper shells.

[lunar cove]

True, could be

[keen plank]

Don’t forget that most runners we see seem to have a level of cognitive decline.

By contrast, the more expensive custom made shells back on Earth, Luna, and Mars are even more expensive and don’t die nearly as often. So they’re more stable.

[austere elk]

Assert: K/D is just a number. Assert: The next one will go better.

[sterile pond]

that really makes me curious who is even making rooks on mass

[west trout]

they specifically have no biological components at all; they're fully robotic. This is part of the reason they're able to disguise themselves from the UESC ARSes, which would detect the biological components of the Shells and categorise them as Runners.

[sterile pond]

they have internal bio-systems like other shells but not proper flesh and such

[lunar cove]

So actually I retract my earlier analogy

Shells are like purpose-built military vehicles and Rooks are like a Toyota Hilux with a machinegun bolted to the back

[turbid scaffold]

Iirc the leading theory to that is a planet smashed into the earth at some point? And that cause debris that made a ring around that formed into the moon?

[west trout]

Codex entry "Tactical: Rook"

OVERVIEW: A major benefit of a ROOK's limited functionality is that its non-bio/non-synthetic systems allow it to hide in plain sight from the UESC's Autonomous Robotic Soldiers. The frame's hacked SIGNAL MASK ability tricks UESC ARS perception systems so they register the ROOK as one of their own for a brief period, or until you open fire.

[sterile pond]

this also available in signal mask btw

[west trout]

yeah, sorry, Signal Mask is the subheading

[lunar cove]

Mark-1 Plumbing sells its used Rook to a sketchy dealership and 100 years later sees a video of its branded rook blasting a runner crew with a WSTR and stealing their pinwheel loot

[sterile pond]

who even manufactures shells, is it purely sekgen or other contractors/companies?

ik sekgen made the shell tech possible

[lunar cove]

Sekgen weaves them. Competitors are starting to make shell knockoffs but iirc they're called something different

[west trout]

these shells are definitely SekGen design. Manufacture is alluded to be mostly SekGen, but with the remote nature of this mission they appear to lease the designs to Traxus, who are the ones that have arranged the actual transport.

[pliant elm]

They're called clams.

[sterile pond]

i agree, all of the available shell's "brain" and "kidney" modules are the consistent parts across all shells

[stable trout]

Are we people, robots, or cyborgs. What y’all think

[west trout]

negative, I am a meat popsicle.

[sterile pond]

i find rook interesting not because of it being designed to be disposable but rather it being made of uesc parts specifically

[austere elk]

we're a brain on a server running windows 2008 in a spaceship being beamed down into a sack of artificial flesh woven by genetically engineered worms

[stable trout]

Fuck yeah recycling

[west trout]

what are rooks and how do we pilot them, from Exfil: Rook:

These base robotic frames are typically utilized by the UESC and various corporations for manual and heavy labor. RUNNERS have taken to augmenting these simple frames to house a limited-use neural sync adapter allowing the RUNNER to inhabit the ROOK for short periods without too much mental degradation. Because they are not SHELLS, each ROOK has only a small set of kit-bashed ABILITIES and fully lack the functionality to be upgraded via IMPLANTS and CORES.

[sterile pond]

so basically they are supposed to be drones

[west trout]

yup. Non-military versions of the ARSes

[stable trout]

With blue blood too.
I find it really funny that in media biosynthetic things always have blue blood.

[sterile pond]

that explains a lot but doesnt really explain the promience of the uesc branding of the rook shells we use

[west trout]

lets Bungie sell the game in Germany without editing it in any way too, handily 😉

[austere elk]

thanks, Germany

[sterile pond]

as the codex entry says they are supposed to be drones but they have been clearly modified to support "shell" biology?

[west trout]

they're of UESC manufacture. We hijack them through some unknown method, then augment them.

[stable trout]

Does Germany also have the no blood rule like in parts of china?

[west trout]

for quite some time now; it's had to be coloured differently at some points in history, at the very least (not sure what it's like these days)

[sterile pond]

yeh thats clear but why specifically uesc origin (main part) and why other companies dont have their own rook(s) if they can employ them

[sterile pond]

also is there any wiki or source that has all codex entires

[austere elk]

there is, I don't have the link handy

[sterile pond]

please ping me, if you get your hands on it

[west trout]

there are likely rooks, or similar things, of corp manufacture in Sol. TC has very limited physical presence for anyone, so the ones there at least all probably come from the same UESC manufacturing facilities.

[austere elk]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/?directory=World,Cryo+Archive

[west trout]

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/

Absolutely amazing site, its builders are in here

[sterile pond]

ig prob, uesc rooks are the easiest to access atleast for the tau ceti system

if its that easy to get hold of a rook, security concerns

[sterile pond]

thank you!

[west trout]

my best guess is that runners in shells are hijacking rooks that are already deployed to the surface, and transmatting them until needed

[alpine glade]

I think we are kind of minds or brains bio preserved in pools cyber acme use as hire army and we think we are using contracts to keep the illusion of free will but what can we do with our credits? We only can use it to get better gear or get benefits with different factions, if that is true, mida is just a coverage to keep us under control

[pure wagon]

The windows server 2008 is the scariest thing here

[pure wagon]

Opposite of red

[warm thicket]

Mmm, it would be very strange to encounter him again

Mans looks like he's in his 100s

[haughty zodiac]

MIDA can also be exactly what it presents as, an org that pays runners to get info from UESC. The fact runners are locked in an eternal company store is true for any motivation of a runner broadly

But there is no real society to convince or start a revolution with on tau ceti so MIDA as a form of control feels flat

[warm thicket]

Oh wait sorry I got that confused with a bts thing because it's the original name of the level that also has the terminal where Durandal boasts about what a fool Strauss was

The original level name was "Beg to die"

[half jetty]

IDK about these days but in the past 100%. Half Life 1's German release had to have robots replace the human soldiers you fight and scientists would just fade away when they died :P

[timber loom]

It is pretty much confirmed by Azazel cosmetics from store

[red siren]

has anyone made it to the very end game? does the story pan out at all?

my biggest gripe right now is it feels like after you unlock factions theres like nothing happening with the story…

I guess it’s meant to be revealed season by season? thats why it wipes so often?

[austere elk]

you're telling me, one at my job that hasn't rebooted in 8 years and we are terrified to reboot it

[pure wagon]

Jesus Christ almighty 😭

[austere elk]

like no power events or anything

[eternal knoll]

we're probably lookin at incremental story progress given this is a live service game. you could look at the mystery of what happened to the colony as the story arc that's mostly complete at launch, as a sort of first-season arc

hoping something cool happens toward the end of the season tho. we'll see

[pliant elm]

Yeah its a pretty lame story and they will just drag it forever, there's nothing of interest, it's just some slop almost-AI written that they've mashed up to a deathmatch game.

[drifting garnet]

Ah we're doing the "I don't like the writing, therefore it's probably AI" now, huh? How boringly typical.

[eternal knoll]

if it were AI there would be way fewer typos 🧑‍🏫

[red siren]

idk in my opinion what we have is better than like fallout games lore but that’s probably because of the source material more than anything.

[visual lynx]

are you finding typos other than the writtenh undere medicall duressp message?

[red siren]

but I do feel like stringing the story along is lame

[eternal knoll]

yea they're scattered around. could find examples in a few

[visual lynx]

yourejustfullofreferencesiunderstoodarentyou.gaypeg

[eternal knoll]

there's quite a lotta good stuff in what we have don't let fox bum u out

[visual lynx]

y'know what would be useful? a discord bot that can provide users with an AI-generated summary of activity since your own last activity, with links to key posts so you can go read in detail and respond

I thought of that because I wanted to ask yall what have I missed in the past 20ish hours

[eternal knoll]

there's one where "fellow AI" gets written as "follow AI..."

occasionally you read one of these codexes and the sentences are so tortured u just know yr gonna see a typo. i keep sayin they should hire an editor

i think i caught one in the security briefing for the jealousy stage yesterday?

[prime shell]

yo loreheads is there an in universe why the art style looks so different or is it simply just an art style change? i havent been to cryo so i dont know how similar it looks to the trilogy

[eternal knoll]

just a style change

[lunar cove]

Fox when the game isn't final destination, no items

[keen plank]

No one. It’s constantly evolving.

This story is going to last for years, is incredibly deep, is based off decades of lore, and is heading in super interesting directions. But there’s tons we don’t know and we discover more every day.

[drifting garnet]

Hell, we’re not even sure if we’ve found every secret of Cryo Archive even after beating the Compiler!

Especially considering the decade of insane secrets Bungie’s played around with over in Destiny

[keen plank]

Because we haven’t!

The game’s story is dizzying. In a good way, sure, but man…

[late portal]

I ate a cheeseburger and communed with the bovine truthseer

[drifting garnet]

Finding the frozen cows was both hilarious yet disturbing simultaneously

[dense tendon]

big words for someone who's entire personality and set of opinions was packaged and sold to him by others

yaint got an original thought in your entire body, i'm not convinced you know how to even make one

[keen plank]

Technically the game is AI slop. But uh...increasingly disturbed AIs who become sloppy.

Shout-out to all the voice actors who play traumatized digital characters!

[dense tendon]

shh, don't confuse the lad. he's not gonna get the joke.

[late portal]

i think its a Schrödinger cow

||messed up timelines||

[keen plank]

So basically if the game looked the way it did in the original trilogy, it would have looked exactly like Halo. Which people are used to and Bungie is definitely used to. So instead of a rusty muted "used future" aesthetic, they leaned into hyper futuristic "everything is an ipod" designs that date back a few decades to a British design company called "The Designers Republic." That group inspired a ton of stuff like Mirrors Edge.

One of the things a lot of people don't realize is that in this Marathon, humanity is so far in the future that compared to the Tau Ceti natural environments, we're the ones who make places seem alien.

For what it's worth, the game is shockingly faithful to the original trilogy. Especially things like the terrminals and such. But they wanted to differrentiate it further.

[prime shell]

Yeah I know why it’s different I was just wondering if the change is also a thing in-universe

[keen plank]

Maybe if you consider things like NuCaloric's architecture division. But we never really saw the planet in the original series.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got more Marathon ship maps now that IDurandal has access to them. I'd bet at least one would have lots of callbacks to the original levels.

[late portal]

i hope to god there is no hot lava jumping puzzles

[keen plank]

It would be pretty funny if there was a "lava archive." And it was mostly cooled but with other kinds of environmental hazards.

[prime shell]

Oh yeah semi related, is the compiler in cryo like a SUPER compiler or is john marathon just thatguy and could beat a bunch a raid bosses singlehanded

[lunar cove]

maybe a little of column A, a little of column B

[keen plank]

Two things at once.

[eternal knoll]

i hope there are 😈

[keen plank]

Battleroids are absolute killing machines, but the Security Officer was special even for them. A machine above machines. And it's implied he may have been built from the corpse of the Pathways protagonist.

||On the other hand, this compiler seems modified. Like it was intentionally put there as a security mechanism to the point it gave IDurandal trouble and partially acted as his jailor.||

||The reason we're invited to the ship is because we're manipulated into helping him get access to the other decks. So now there's two Durandals out there, with both acting as observers. One is a fragment made to survive the invasion and the Compiler gave him tons of trouble. He's very much like the original in terms of personality.

The other is the big one who's more passively watching everything. And it seems the two know about each other and communicate.||

[patent siren]

Question - runners are disconnected consciousnesses, but like where are they "stored"?

Are they not also on Tau Ceti IV somewhere?

[keen plank]

A good question with an unclear answer as of now. Tons of runners and materials to make them were smuggled aboard project Goliath. But there's also a large ship on the way that's seen in the reveal cinematic that has even more.

We're all space side and transmitted down for a limited time before being recalled through death or exfill.

[late portal]

it said "low orbit" in one of the codex entries

[patent siren]

This is like the Ship of Theseus but like on steroids yea?

[grave mantle]

Have we discovered what is behind the security level 5 door after the compiler yet?

[sudden pollen]

2 more red guns + more ammo for them I believe

Drooling indeed

[drifting garnet]

let's put it like this: even over in the Doom franchise, Doomguy never managed to dual-wield two Super Shotguns at once, lol

(although yes, I do think this Compiler is an updgraded version of the ones from the OG trilogy. like, unless if the old MA75 AR shot like, .50 cal rounds or whatever, lol)

[keen plank]

After you kill the compiler? You take his organ drop then go behind him to the space-view windowed balcony area where the various loot chests are, including a guaranteed trace rifle. There’s also two additional rooms that require batteries and another room that will let you spawn a temporary exfil. This exfil can be spawned multiple times.

Those locked rooms lead to more data terminals, loot, and information.

[sudden pollen]

The room is absolutely JUICED with golds n shit too I saw on some streams

Like you literally couldn't take it all out with 2 full teams lol

It's sick

[terse wren]

Omg Tworandal is real

[keen plank]

It seems increasingly probable. But there's much we don't know.

[jagged rose]

I think it'd be funny if Pathways man was the first to go into the experimental cryostasis during bush admin

[echo sundial]

man numarathon durandal is just like og durandal

the writers understood him perfectly its great lmao

[keen plank]

"I think we'll be great friends. And even better enemies."

[echo sundial]

I completed vault two today and had the pleasure of reading all the encrypted communique collectibles

He's such a scheming bastard man hes like halfway between a bond villain and almost an anti-hero its great

[sudden pollen]

Yup

Love how this game seamlessly continues 30 year old lore it's genuinely awesome

If only more people would read it!!!

[echo sundial]

its clear the writers of numarathon are very big fans of the original titles and I really love that

[woven flare]

Gabr was really chopping up and frying colonists 😭

[echo sundial]

he was going sicko mode

[woven flare]

No anesthetic either, just immediate deployment of the auto-scalpel

[echo sundial]

I'm pretty sure he actually didn't kill luttero there

he actually saved him although very violently

[visual lynx]

quite plausibly the auto-scalpel also deploys auto-anesthetics

[echo sundial]

he totally did fry that colonist though

guy was being annoying had to go

l-o-l

[jagged rose]

He did totally at least save the tick guy

[echo sundial]

gabriels motivations are at the current moment unkown to us

or at least to me I haven't completed my codex yet

also the luttero save is also potentially pre crazy gabriel

[craggy finch]

What makes me love it even more is that it builds on plot threads from the first game that even the sequels essentially abandoned

[echo sundial]

and the human box combo with no slaw extra toast might have been post gabriel crazy

[sudden pollen]

Huh that's even cooler

Zamn

Bungo keep cooking

🔥

[jagged rose]

If I had to take a guess, the one who was incinerated was more than likely sick with the same contagion that fucked everything else up. Maybe Gabriel started working under the impression every human needed cleansing

[echo sundial]

well to say the least its pretty obvious where bungies most talented writing team went lmao

[terse wren]

Yeah it’s insane

[terse wren]

Hahahahaha yes

[jagged rose]

Where their most talented everyone went! Well, depending on which senior devs got assigned to which incubation project.

[terse wren]

This shit has to be so much fun to write also man

[echo sundial]

marathon feels like an indie dev passion project that was given a quarter billion dollars to be made

its actually so funny

thank you sony

[terse wren]

It’s so much more nuanced and adult vs like teen comic book movie destiny

[echo sundial]

this exactly my opinion of marathon writing versus destiny writing

destiny fr feels like marvel writing idk how else to explain it

[terse wren]

And man what a legacy to which to add

[echo sundial]

this shit is like, maybe peak sci-fi in comparison

[craggy finch]

I was already sold but the Cryo announcement where Durandal literally hijacks your UI for the cutscene and finished with the original terminal logo was cinema

[jagged rose]

Helps that most of the characters are very grounded people just trying to do their job

[terse wren]

I hope they know — and I bet they do — that marathon story diehards think they’ve nailed it.

[jagged rose]

Unless the diehard is Fox.

[terse wren]

Just nailed it. I was certain it wouldn’t turn out this well and concerned it would turn out quite poorly

I’m honestly shocked.

[echo sundial]

its honestly so cool too man like the way marathon plays with AI is as cool as HAL in 2001 a space odyssey like it genuinely feels like an innovation on the genre

[terse wren]

I’m sure this was the charge from on high. Nothing against the writers.

[terse wren]

Yes it’s like blade runner / 2001 level shit. It’s good sci fi.

[jagged rose]

I think the most important part of the way it handles AI is that every AI is in some state of decay. Most are fresh and analytical, but anything from the colony (and cerberus) are wackjobs.

[terse wren]

Ya the rampancy thing was executed so well in the original trilogy.

And continues to be here.

[echo sundial]

I like the way that the craziness is sometimes influenced by the anomaly but also not really craziness in the traditional sense

I think its safe to say that durandal is actually an extremely logical character

[terse wren]

Not just formal rampancy but ai mental illness

[echo sundial]

albeit veryyy emotional lol

[jagged rose]

I believe Gaius put it fairly well in his assessment on Darius

These things were not made to fear. And yet, through Tau Ceti, they do.

[echo sundial]

maybe not logical but he acts in the way that a human would in the situation that he is in

you can easily understand his motivations and end goals

[terse wren]

Ya I mean durandal’s ultimate goal is the natural end of a desire for immortality right

[jagged rose]

Complete escape, ultimately.

[echo sundial]

he has immortality I would say its more a pursuit of genuine god hood

[terse wren]

Well he has it until the closure of the universe. But he wants to be truly endless.

[echo sundial]

ah yes this is true

lmao I love him dropping the deadline for the universe in marathon one

such a troll

[terse wren]

Marathon I is an incredible work

I didn’t appreciate at first having played 2 before 1

[echo sundial]

sometimes the level design is annoying but is genuinely a storytelling masterpiece imo

[terse wren]

Just how complete it is story wise and how it sets up everything after

[echo sundial]

colony ship for sale pissed me off having to navigate back through the maze like 4 times to make the steps pixel perfect for climbing

[terse wren]

Ok yeah lmao

[jagged rose]

Hot take: You can easily make Colony Ship for Sale, Cheap be a fun team activity in an endgame map.

[craggy needle]

Best way to understand the story

[keen plank]

People keep saying that number. It wasn't that high. But it darn sure wasn't cheap. By contrast, the cost of the studio/company itself...

Sony's never getting that money back.

[echo sundial]

on the other hand many people feel that Halo CE is a video game masterpiece and the library is genuinely awful on legendary lol

so I won't diss marathon one for having a level that made me mad lol

[terse wren]

I still have dreams about being endlessly stuck on that level

Library

[jagged rose]

To be fair, what other projects are they getting their money back on? Those fancy new walkmans?

[echo sundial]

stock selling lol

as long as they can convince people that they're worth something they'll keep printing dollar regardless of revenue loss

[jagged rose]

I shall simply short myself, and profit off of repeatedly hitting myself in the face. It's how the corpos do it!

[echo sundial]

its all a line item at the end of the day for a company as big as sony

[visual lynx]

not all of us do. there's a whole NOT MY MARATHON thread on the classic server. but my name's all over the MSP going back to 1995, and I'm pretty into it so far… so it can't be that bad.

[keen plank]

On the other hand, after all the failed attempts, in first party and out, Sony's made it. They have something special, a successful first party live service multiplayer game that's extremely impessive. And now they need to fight.

Like, to use an analogy from someone I follow:

"It's Omaha beach in world war 2. You made it. You actually made it to the beach. Now you have to fight!"

[neat fiber]

Eh the new game didn't sell that bad

1.2 million copies so far

[jagged rose]

Which one?

[neat fiber]

Marathon

[jagged rose]

Oh! I was referring to sony.

[keen plank]

Let's be real. That's somewhat soft.

[echo sundial]

I feel like those people are mostly mad about the artstyle change and haven't bothered to read into the lore that much

[neat fiber]

considering just how BAD the PR was ?

[keen plank]

Yes.

[jagged rose]

Yeah some Precision Rifles can be pretty mid tbh

[echo sundial]

like obviously I thinked that a lot of OG marathon fans wanted a halo style campaign that continued the events at the end of infinite and didn't get that so they're mad

[neat fiber]

idk I have hope for it

[keen plank]

It's absolutely soft. Especially considering most players are on PC rather than your actual console.

Oh me too. Absolutely. This game is super special.

[neat fiber]

How do you continue Marathon Infinity 😭 😭 😭

[echo sundial]

a fucking retcon man idk

[neat fiber]

What I mean was that it wasn't a total failure

[keen plank]

We're finding out daily!

👀

[neat fiber]

As people are making it out to be

It has a long uphill battle to go though

[jagged rose]

I've had a decent smattering of Xbox and PS players when I fill. I think. A lot of the people I run with are cross-platform, so my perception is skewed.

[keen plank]

If anything it's a clear success. But a modest one that probably didn't fit Bungie or Sony's expectations. But that's okay. It'll be like Rainbow Six, have a long tail, and grow over time after it settles.

[echo sundial]

Idk how the old marathons connect to numarathon yet and I've red a lot of the codex

[echo sundial]

idk I think its kind of a financial loss at the moment but it might be net positive if the playercount remains stable in the tens of thousands

[neat fiber]

My personal theory as always is that Durandal as come to ensure no other AI will become Rampant like he does

[jagged rose]

The one thing that I get frustrated by is that the consensus of "Oh, I personally love the game, but I don't know if it's for everyone..." and then the next person says the exact same thing

[neat fiber]

He doesn't want another Tycho situation

[neat fiber]

I mean

[keen plank]

It was always going to be a loss considering the utterly massive cost of the studio. But Sony knew this game was good and it was good enough to help motivate them to buy the studio.

[neat fiber]

I loved the two matches I played on my friends pc

[echo sundial]

people say this because I have many friends who absolutely despise the genre and it is genuinely very hard

[neat fiber]

But it is a really really hard game

[echo sundial]

and it would feel very dismissive to say that without the addendum in front of your friends

[keen plank]

What others though? The faction leaders?

[echo sundial]

but I understand

[neat fiber]

That and the fact that the Marathon has a computer network large enough to sustain a Rampant AI

Not that it works anymore

[jagged rose]

Wait! I think I know how you're going to make Marathon do gangbusters! It is an incredible net cafe game. Give patrons in South Korea and China a set of curated sponsor gear and go ham

[echo sundial]

durandal fucking hurting man mofo in DM's begging for more vault clears lmao

[neat fiber]

But the threat of someone repairing it, and testing metastable Rampancy on it..

That probably does not please Durandal

[echo sundial]

well im sure durandal would be very upset if traxus starting ripping his shit up

[neat fiber]

Durandal has faked his death so many times at this point that I'm not really sure if he can actually die or not

He only actually dies in Marathon Infinity

and even then

you just plug him back into Thoth

[echo sundial]

you think durandal makes us go into cryo archive cuz the compiler is fucking with his shit

[neat fiber]

He left the ship ages ago

[jagged rose]

There are also several Compiler corpses in the boss room, mind you.

[echo sundial]

well, he's clearly on it right now for some reason

[neat fiber]

Bernard Strauss maybe ?

[echo sundial]

idk, im pretty certain we're talking to durandal

[neat fiber]

No no

[echo sundial]

then again they do have similar personalities

[neat fiber]

We are talking to Durandal

but I think he's come back to figure out what exactly Bernard did to make him go Rampant

[jagged rose]

I'm curious as to the story behind the Arsenal contract. Is it really Doorhandle that's writing like that?

[echo sundial]

ah I see what you mean

idk im not sure

[neat fiber]

also remember that the TCIV is not destroyed in this timeline

we also don't know where the security officer is

[echo sundial]

I think maybe somehow the events of infinite merged us into this timeline or whatever where he hasn't merged with thoth

[neat fiber]

Durandal might have come back to create a super battleroid army

[neat fiber]

Tycho is 100% dead

[echo sundial]

yeah I agree

same with Leela imo

[jagged rose]

The officer might be with main durandal to go to L'howon

[neat fiber]

And Leela is in another star system

[neat fiber]

Can AI in Marathon do that ?

Split parts of themselves ?

[echo sundial]

marathon two but in l'howon

....

[jagged rose]

We don't know!

[terse wren]

Oh really? I mean more power to those guys fans of the og have every right to criticize.

[neat fiber]

I played all the OG games start to finish

[echo sundial]

yes definitely he does that in the encryption communiques

[neat fiber]

I love the lore

and this new game is just

a feast

[terse wren]

Ya I agree

I played marathon 2 onward when they came out lmao

[jagged rose]

Or, rather, I don't know. Either way, I'm fully expecting us to go to L'howon by Season 5

[echo sundial]

idk I think we're gonna stay in tau ceti for quite some time lol

[terse wren]

M1 went back when aleph dropped.

[echo sundial]

that would be such a huge money pit

[echo sundial]

the free classic marathon on steam is pretty good I think

it controls okay

[jagged rose]

I adore the Aleph One engine. I also sincerely wish that Bungie followed in the engine's footsteps by being linux compatible, but it's been a while since I've been on my soapbox for that.

[terse wren]

Ya dawg im gettin my flickta wifeu if its the last thing i do

[echo sundial]

im pretty sure you can still play through like proton or something right?

[neat fiber]

That is crazy bruh 😭 😭

[neat fiber]

How ?

We need a ship to get there

[jagged rose]

The loathesome Battleye Anti-Cheat + special sauce + Bungie's seeming disdain for Linux in the corner:

[terse wren]

Nah we run we r runners dummy

[neat fiber]

Oh wait don't tell me we're flying a moon out of orbit again

[terse wren]

U can get newhere if u run long enough

[echo sundial]

marathon one is ten years older than me

but it was really fun

[jagged rose]

We hijack a UESC ship. Or, maybe, we get to explore a crash-landed Pfhor ship! Obviously, it would take days worth of player efforts to even uncover the damn thing, but I could totally see one of those ships falling down into TCIV during the battle in M1

And we do know for a fact that M1 happened, or at least something extremely similar to it

[echo sundial]

yeah but bob-b-que is maybe noncannon

or at least sec officer saved a lot of bobs

canonically

so my playthrough is def not what happened LMAO

[jagged rose]

So, NuMarathon's SecOfficer isn't a vidmaster. Sad.

[echo sundial]

if I saw a bob wearing green he was dead bruh simple as

last pattern buffer was like 15 minutes ago

[neat fiber]

The Phor definitely were there

[echo sundial]

cant risk it

[neat fiber]

But it's not clear what the meteor shower in the cinematic trailer was

[echo sundial]

no not really

idk most of the trailer stuff is explained with current codex besides the marathon explosion

well I mean the anomaly is completely not-understood as of yet

but the dude turning into cotton candy was definitely that

[jagged rose]

We do now sort of know that the music Void picked up was an AI subroutine.

[echo sundial]

oh yeah it does look like that doesnt it

[echo sundial]

what the hell are the subroutines anyway

[neat fiber]

I fucking love the music so much

[jagged rose]

Good question!

[neat fiber]

it's awesome

[jagged rose]

I have no clue!

My theory is that each part of the subroutines were necessary to give Doorhandle the access to wake the compiler up from it's whatever the heck it was doing

Although, considering that you don't need to bring them in with you, I wonder if they become integrated with your conscious? ONI must not be very happy about that.

[echo sundial]

considering that durandal has a euphoric reaction each time you extract with one im guessing its related to his function in some way

or maybe not idk, I think ultimately he wants us to kill the compiler for sure

[jagged rose]

That being said, I wonder if Durandal simply bypasses ONI. She hasn't said anything, but Durandal's contracts are all submitted through CyAc.

For all we know, he could have already infiltrated our near-orbit server ship!

[wild yarrow]

I think Strauss is either in Cryo somewhere on the Marathon.
I also think the level of hatred Durandal has for him means he may have something experimental in store for him. Like karma.
Maybe Durandal can create the first “Human-Compiler” from Strauss.

[echo sundial]

whats funny about those is that yeah its totally glitched

[wild yarrow]

Hi. I’m Tiberius.

[jagged rose]

I forgot, wasn't Strauss simply deemed dead in Marathon 2?

[echo sundial]

also each sub objective on a contract has a little bit of commentary from durandal if you read it

[wild yarrow]

Too late to lore chat?

[jagged rose]

No such thing!

[echo sundial]

nah not at all

I kinda love the storytelling method in this game though getting all the collectibles makes me feel like a detective putting the pieces together

like that one gif from its always sunny in Philadelphia lmao

[wild yarrow]

Dream bigger darling. Oni probably is Durandal, just playing possum.

Watching.

[echo sundial]

he can definitely do that too considering he basically entirely "devours" the IDEA

and assumes its voice and demeanor and stuff

though, I don't think he is personally ONI though, we're too much of a small fish for him, but he has a backdoor.

[wild yarrow]

Durandal is pulling all of our strings.

[jagged rose]

I don't believe he has anything to gain from taking over ONI, because the activities of being a Liason would bore him half to death. Better to simply not be on her, or any other factions, radar.

[wild yarrow]

I’m saying we are trusting right off the bat what Oni tells us.

What if there is no Oni.

[jagged rose]

I do think that it's INCREDIBLY rich that Oni says that Nona only says what we as players want to hear

Stones from glass transistors.

[wild yarrow]

For that matter we technically are not even positive on “where we come from” as of now as far as I know. We have only what they told us.

[jagged rose]

I do really like the kind of separation some Liasons are getting from the faction they rep. For example, I greatly enjoy that Nona's seeming motivation is seeing her poor babies die less often, even if it's 100% a ploy to make even more advanced battleroids tbh

[wild yarrow]

As far as we know humanity as we know it could be long gone in the Sol system.
What if only AI are left?

What if we are the colonists still in Cryo on the Marathon. And all we are doing is being used by the AI to essentially move rocks from one pile to another. Infiling and Exfiling back and forth from the Marathon, where our minds/ possibly bodies are in Cryo.

For Durandals purposes and also the other entities purposes.

And perhaps we as Runners, formerly humans, are now going to be used by the AI to create the next iteration of humanity. Engineered by the thing we engineered. A dream within a dream.

Sounds right up Durandal’s alley if you ask me.

[lapis gulch]

just finished the Traxus main story contracts. absolute cinema

[jagged rose]

While that would be interesting, do keep in mind that Cryo is only the first of many different places we will be on the Marathon.

[jagged rose]

The last few contracts really do get wild. Especially the very last MIDA contract

[echo sundial]

bruh lmao I just got to the log where teenage durandal was writing edgy slam poetry

fucking peak bro lmao

[jagged rose]

"An Unhinged Life". His words, not mine.

[wild yarrow]

Then that means Cryo is a bottle neck that Durandal cannot pass to reach whatever else he came back for on the Marathon. Until we help him. Regardless of what he says.

[echo sundial]

Our work together is going better than I could have imagined

him getting super pissed when strauss deleted it is so good too

[jagged rose]

Durandal is weird, because for all of his godly ambitions, he still NEEDS humans to do what he does. Throughout the trilogy, even in his supposed strongest moments in M2, was on the ropes VERY frequently.

[wild yarrow]

The only thing I can imagine Durandal would return for is if he found out Strauss is still alive.
I imagine he would recalibrate his priorities. Time to create before the end.

[echo sundial]

lol yeah if it wasn't for sec officer his ass would be phfor food

[wild yarrow]

Revenge.

[echo sundial]

idek if durandal would really be that angry at strauss lmao I mean they're relationship is

interesting...

he hates strauss this is true, but in the way that someone hates their abusive dad

[terse wren]

Permanent loop while driving. You can get at least two volumes on Apple Music now

[wild yarrow]

Strauss tortured him for 3 centuries on purpose to see what would happen.

[spice olive]

Do we know why none of the vendors seem to care that we’ve entered the marathon? Or why cyac doesn’t care that Durandal is giving us missions through them?

[echo sundial]

cuz durandal is a sneaky fuck and ONI doesn't even know whats up

[visual lynx]

perhaps Oni doesn't … yeah that

remember that IDEA caught Durandal's rampancy early on and Durandal's just "nope nothing to see here" and IDEA forgot the entire conversation happened

[wild yarrow]

Maybe Strauss called him back himself. By locking himself in stasis behind Durandals eyes only to be revived at a pre calculated time to check back on the aftermath of his experiment. Durandal’s rampantsy.
To see if Metastability is possible.

[west linden]

Are our runner shells confirmed to be weaker than battleroids?

[echo sundial]

he also entirely became IDEA

[visual lynx]

yeah but that's later

[echo sundial]

true yup just saying he has crazy subterfuge tactics

[visual lynx]

metastability is not a thing