📚marathon-lore-discussion

[tranquil basin]

It really is yeah

[scenic summit]

Wait a minute did they ban Durandal from the art channel in this discord on purpose or what

It says no AI content

That's exactly why these guys go rampant isn't it

[eager mason]

i mean this game has to take place in the timeline where the luhuon star isn't collapsed

[tranquil basin]

Why

Lhowon is like 25k ly away

[eager mason]

cause all the failed timelines free the w'rkncacnter

[tranquil basin]

Oh oh oh oh ok I see what you meant

I thought you mean the collapse like the singularity thing they make at the end to contain it

[pliant granite]

I hope so badly they put an ingame radio using the same tech we see in the cinematic with vandal and assassin I need a banging tracklist while I pvp

[tranquil basin]

Yes it would have to be in timeline 7

[scenic wasp]

I’m still curious to see how they’ll progress the story of this game given the format. The season stuff explains it a little, but i want to see a bit more meaningful progression y’know?

[eager mason]

i guess it could take place in a failed timeline but for the s'pht to still be in the marathon they would have to have abandoned their homeoworld like they do in the successful timeline

[pliant granite]

They're definitely not afraid of using cutscenes to flesh out the lore so I'm sure we'll see more get added as seasons progress

[visual lynx]

making sure the zombies stay contained

[tranquil basin]

Yeah, or Durandal could have still freed some of them and they’ve now gone off to either his bidding or do whatever they want

[visual lynx]

except it won’t because that’s not how physics works

[eager mason]

you're right. but if the game takes place in the successful timeline then we should know what happened to the colony and there would be more evidence of the battle in 2, right?

this lore is so cool but it is so confusing

[waxen geyser]

physics deez nuts

[scenic wasp]

The problem with having a shit ton of timelines lol

[eager mason]

fr

[scenic wasp]

I’m there was only battleroid on the marathon post colony founding and I doubt hes anywhere near it rn

[tranquil basin]

Well all of marathon 2 takes place at Lhowon

Or around it

Nowhere near tau ceti

Same with infinity

[scenic summit]

Tin foil hat moment

Isn't it kinda weird how the ARG is using this weird Mida propaganda, using contagions as a rallying slogan in a way that makes them the bad guys (contagion killed the TC4 colonists), but in the art channel it says "No AI generated art?"

If there's ARG content maybe we might see things discriminating against AIs? But they might be sentient anyway?

And then bringing it a step further what if the runners become AIs? Supposedly the corps claim that there are consciousnesses on backup...

[eager mason]

yea but the colony was confirmed destroyed by the pfhor in 2

[tranquil basin]

Oh yeah, but it’s assumed the timeline split happened right after marathon 1, before that happened

Otherwise the security officer would’ve been with Durandal in every timeline instead of with Tycho

[pliant granite]

The fans are already on it making music themed around the game????

https://youtu.be/Q6EdmwodoNw

[eager mason]

okay word. so the colony was spared of the second invasion

[tranquil basin]

Yeah

It’s all hella confusing bc there’s so little that’s explicitly stated

[eager mason]

so maybe the first invasion dried up a lot of resources and then famine and disease did the rest?

[tranquil basin]

Even after learning with lore videos it still took me forever to piece everything together

[tranquil basin]

I assume so, and whatever the anomaly is contributed

[tranquil basin]

This being said, I still don’t know everything i wish I did

[scenic wasp]

I do wonder why durandal is still hanging around the colony tbh. Shouldn’t he be an ascendant hyper ai operating an alien ship

[eager mason]

yea im gonna have to dig a litte deeper, but I kinda hope the w'rkncaacnter is involved somehow. that'd be sick

[scenic summit]

I'm curious what would happen if we petitioned to allow AI art in the discord... Would we be allowed to post art made by Durandal if we see any even though its official media?

[tranquil basin]

I mean yeah but I assume an anomaly with time and gravity manipulation probably caught his eye. Especially if it’s jjaro tech, that could help him truly ascend

[pliant granite]

I think he is the reason tau ceti was abandoned it's likely that the limited tau ceti net was nuked and he's stuck with the still operation devices aboard the marathon unable to let his rampancy run further

[eager mason]

holy shit imagine if durrandal was an unlockable faction. that would go so hard

[patent flower]

does anyone know if the faction AIs have gone rampant yet?

[tranquil basin]

I think that’d be sick

[scenic summit]

As I recall Durandal is a more "work for me or you go back into cryosleep" kinda guy

[tranquil basin]

I saw speculation that Gaius has early onset rampancy, as he reboots himself in one of the alpha missions

[eager mason]

yea ive been thinking about the nucal guy. something is def off with him

[tranquil basin]

I’m sure he could find a way to entice runners to do ground ops so the UESC wouldn’t get wind of his presence

[short hawk]

Traxus one went rampant which caused the birth of Mida. Now Traxus are actively trying to make another rampant AI

[pliant granite]

Does anybody know what happened to that one tau ceti dude that got evaporated into blue and purple goop?

[tranquil basin]

I also saw speculation that Traxus IV never actually was expunged, and now Vulcan is just Traxus IV, or the Traxus AIs and board are splinters of the same ai

[serene summit]

Does anyone have any good videos or podcasts of the lore I can listen to at work?

[tranquil basin]

Idk something of the anomaly

[tranquil basin]

Hidden Xperia, Jake the alright videos

[coral sage]

Drinkable cheeseburger

[serene summit]

Cheers

[short hawk]

that would be interesting

Hear talk Straus may not hve died when Durandel thoguht he did?

[scenic summit]

Its people. Dear god its people.

Somehow soylent green as a horror plot twist never gets old

[patent flower]

that actually makes a lot of sense

i kinda hope it goes rampant in a future season

[eager mason]

okay so we should def be on the lookout for rampancy in the faction AIs. Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy are hard tells

[scenic summit]

Sounds to me like its just a standard way of going about it that's most common to the Marathon games. I'm willing to accept nonstandard rampancy occurances.

[coral sage]

Gantry wasn't confirmed to be an ai correct?

[short hawk]

inb4 shell rampancy

the weave will flicker

the window shall open

[visual lynx]

not those zombies, the fungal
zombies

[pliant granite]

Is there anything in the lore that says shells absolutely HAVE to be humanoid and if not do yall think there is a possibility that we see a more animalistic quadraped type shell in the future

[visual lynx]

we know very little about the successful timeline of infinity but some of what we do know is that things differ a lot from m2

I wrote a thing in the classic server last night that I will copy here now…

I really expect that just the one final timeline of Infinity is canon in the new game, no timeline shenanigans are known to anyone but the SO, and lots of details we never got about that timeline in Infinity itself are free to be fleshed out in the new game.

so the core history across the new game would be:

• 2794: Pfhor attack Marathon a la M1, Durandal leaves without the SO; Pfhor return a few months later and take cyborgs, AIs, presumably many humans captive, but don’t nuke the colony to bedrock as they did in M2.
• 2797: UESC dispatches Equanimity to investigate loss of communication, with 97 year expected travel time. (per first ARG.)
• 2794-2811: Durandal and his S’pht search for Lh’owon, and never bother stopping by Earth as they did in M2.
• 2811: The SO under Tycho under Pfhor command at Lh’owon helps Tycho get free of Pfhor control; as Durandal arrives in the system he jumps sides to help Bobs, Durandal (“destroying” him), Tycho (again), Pfhor (involuntarily), eventually merging Durandal’s primal pattern with Thoth whom the Bobs (now dead) have been activating; Durandal-Thoth recall S’pht’kr, Pfhor deploy trih xeem, Durandal-Thoth and SO contain it. (all per the main through-line of Infinity: early Despair, most of Rage pt2, all of Envy). Notably, unlike M2, the Bobs never return to Sol, Tycho is still alive, and there are other cyborgs like the SO out there under Pfhor command still.
• 2812: Disease breaks out among survivors on Tau Ceti, and S’pht are present (per the cinematic trailer). Plausibly, the free S’pht rebellion deployed a variant of their S’ct’lac’tr bioweapon, for unknown motives. Presumably, they are busy fighting their war against the Pfhor meanwhile.
• 2827: Surviving colonists on Tau Ceti encounter some kind of gravitational anomaly (per the cinematic trailer). Plausibly, this is unearthed Jjaro technology, maybe containing a W'rkncacnter, which may be why the S’pht came there too.

• 2876: Durandal-Thoth revisits Tau Ceti and sends a distress signal to Sol: “Somewhere in the heavens, they are waiting”. (Back-calculated from arrival date.)
• 2881: Unlike M2, the Pfhor are probably not sacked by this date, because humans are not allies with the S’pht, and the Pfhor may still have OG Tycho and other cyborgs on their side.
• 2886: Leela’s message apparently doesn’t arrive at Earth as predicted, which would have been 80 years later than it realistically should have anyway; she probably just sent it to the wrong place.
• 2888: Human factions at Sol receive Durandal’s message, race to Tau Ceti at FTL speeds to investigate, expecting to just beat the Equanimity's arrival. (per second ARG.)
• 2893: Factions arrive at Tau Ceti; UESC is already present too.

[visual lynx]

there’s bingus

[coral sage]

[pliant granite]

Yeah I kinda thought he was a shell which is where I got the idea from which gives me hopium we might see a large playable quadraped type of shell to engage in the rabies fantasy of absolutely chewing up othe runners

[coral sage]

At best we get cat ear skin

[pliant granite]

Shoot it could even be a drone type operator that goes stationary and temporarily transfers over to a quadraped type shell for aggressive plays while leaving the main body vulnerable

[visual lynx]

I think he came by specifically to send the signal that brought everyone here so that human presence would turn the tide of events he knows are soon to come

[finite night]

Tide? 👀

[formal nest]

So is it explained where the shells go when we extract? Where are the runners stored? On the marathon? Where go?

[visual lynx]

I think bringing current anti-AI sentiment into a future where AIs are actual persons is definitely a theme in the new game

[visual lynx]

not the tides, you fool!

don’t you understand?

[tranquil basin]

I assume the corps sent a big ship, it seems implied by the first cinematic that they have a hub nearby

[winged raven]

Okay i just figure out since rook is a rougue UESC robot, for lore, does this mean whatever faction we technically side with, thats the faction that hacks the rook for use to use (which is why it starts mid match) to bring us recources for the main shell?

[formal nest]

Battle of the interstellar mega corps! Hahah so coool

[tranquil basin]

I mean we don’t really side with corps though, runners are for hire and seem to work for anyone who’s paying

But they’re probably just a cheaper alternative to shells that they either replicate or steal

[winged raven]

But rook is technically a hacked shell? why would uesc target it

especially for MIDA wouldnt they wanna wreck havoc by hacking into one to turn on uesc

[scenic summit]

It won't let me post a screenshot to this channel, but I was playing through Marathon and just now got a bit where Durandal was doing a "core logic reset" of Leela's "higher thought functions." Dark.

Durandal is not nice to other AIs either

[waxen geyser]

fanart is going to go fucking crazy for this IP

[polar sparrow]

The UESC Marathon is oddly similar to the seed ship from 'Knights of Sidonia' , as both were megastructures that were built from a celestial body using its own resources (an asteroid or a moon)

[placid gust]

He’s not nice to anybody. Except the S’pht, likely because he empathizes with their plight.

[tranquil basin]

Idk maybe they can tell it’s not doing what it’s supposed to, or maybe it’s a UESC model but Traxus produces a bunch, hence the Traxus logo

They also don’t get targeted if u use the ability

[tranquil basin]

And yet he’s still better than Tycho

Hate that dude

[tranquil basin]

I’m unfamiliar, that sounds cool

[winged raven]

No if youre rook you get targeted without having ability

[tranquil basin]

Yeah that’s what I said

If you use the ability, then you don’t get targeted

If you don’t use it, you get targeted

[winged raven]

oh yuh i read wrong

[warm thicket]

||The Tau Ceti status report notes "unaffiliated runners" meaning that there seems to be runners within the UESC, my guess is that this is through the Sentinel in Season 2||

[proper robin]

I really like the Rook design wise. Unlike Tarkov scav runs you can't just completely ignore AI.

[tranquil basin]

I believe there are some UESC runners yeah, maybe the arg or alpha talked about them but I’m not sure

[tranquil basin]

His voice is cool too

[vivid terrace]

If nothing else Orion, but I thought there was also White Rabbit?

[tranquil basin]

I know white rabbit is famous, I can’t remember if it’s stated she’s a UESC runner or just a famous runner

[sharp raptor]

I'm going to try to be passive/friendly with rooks

[tranquil basin]

Also I’ve wondered if Orion really is a “runner” because we know he’s in a shell, but he’s really high ranking and talks to the UESC leaders

And seems to command people with 0 concern for their lives based on the codex

Which makes me think he’s higher up now, beyond doing groundwork himself

[proper robin]

Orion taking SCP Foundation's use of D-class as a guide.

[vivid terrace]

I almost wonder if it’s gonna be similar to the Archon in Edge of Fate. Like Orion being a central consciousness operating multiple shells against us at some point

Perhaps simultaneously

[tranquil basin]

Maybe, though idk if a human consciousness can necessarily operate more than one shell simultaneously

I would doubt that’s possible

[vivid terrace]

They couldn’t, but a rampant ai could

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but he isn’t an ai

Cerberus maybe

[placid gust]

How did the runners and shells even get there? Like, the UESC sent Goliath. And the runners we play as didn’t go with a corp, besides maybe CyAc and possibly SekGen. Is there a secret third party that put us there? Or did those two just decide to send us for funsies before entreating us for formal affiliation?

[vivid terrace]

No, he’s not. Cerberus could be a better bet for sure

[tranquil basin]

Well the bots aren’t from the Goliath project

[proper robin]

Huh, yeah, I hadnt though about that but an AI could take control of Shells.

[tranquil basin]

We assume ftl travel was developed somewhere between the early 2800s and now

And the corps probably sent a big thing capable of manufacturing shells

They had to send something, because the tutorial mission has us communicating with ONI even when ftl comms are down

So oni has to be in the tau ceti system

Thus there has to be a corp hub somewhere

[proper robin]

At least ONI is in Tau Ceti, there could also be a Sekiguchi Liason that builds shells on site.

[tranquil basin]

CyberAcme and sekiguchi are definitely buds so they could just be sharing a huge ship

[vivid terrace]

Yeah, I had the idea originally that the playable runners were just different fragments/aspects of an AI being convinced we’re a person - I think Oni calls herself a friend we don’t yet remember - but there’s nothing concrete there beyond them telling the different shells the same background info

[tranquil basin]

I still think there’s something preventing ai from inhabiting shells

Because shells are designed to mimic human architecture

[proper robin]

The biomechanical components probably

[tranquil basin]

I feel like the corps would just use ai to control massive op robots to do their stuff

But they’ve specifically opted for less than perfect runners

[vivid terrace]

From the cinematic it seems the central architecture is mechanical

[hybrid pier]

you need a conscious A.I dont have that

[waxen cosmos]

Ok where can I get a crash course on the lore?

[tranquil basin]

Rampant ai are considered conscious

[tranquil basin]

Hidden Xperia videos, Jake the alright videos

[tranquil basin]

Well they’re very much supposed to mimic human bodies, they have nervous systems and blood and presumably organs of some sort

They’re definitely a hybrid, but also in the past it’s been said that AIs need massive networks of computers to operate

[rotund jolt]

Glitch coughed lol

In the cinematic

[vivid terrace]

Right the first gasp

[tranquil basin]

They could remote in, maybe, but still if they’d use AIs then idk why they’d bother using biomata

[vivid terrace]

Right, that’s where the theory falls apart

[tranquil basin]

Plus then they wouldn’t need people to leave their bodies behind and volunteer to be in biomata

[proper robin]

Yup, they could be doing the same shit as the UESC

[placid gust]

I mean, we see them printed in a physical space in the reveal cinematic - there’s definitely somewhere in the system that they’re hiding out.

[eager mason]

Thanks! This is sick. I like that if we encounter durrandal in the new game, it's durrandal-thoth. So he's much wiser and supposedly much closer to escape than if it was just durrandal

But I see people say that durrandal refuses escape? That it's not worthit? I think I saw it on the wiki too, so what does that mean?

[orchid cosmos]

Anyone know why there’s still compilers on the marathon?

[rotund jolt]

I wonder what the runner volunteering process is like

That would be good to know

Like the actual process of becoming one

[vivid terrace]

What’s the benefit to convincing ai they’re people? It’s unclear but marathon has always kinda rode a line with that sort of identity question

[orchid cosmos]

“Live ur new life now for eternity” -side effects may include complete memory loss

[proper robin]

CyberAcme take in your personal debt and you work for them as a mercenary debt slave

[orchid cosmos]

Experiment

[vivid terrace]

If I had to guess similar to Braytech’s Exo program

[rotund jolt]

The ai aren’t technically people but at the same time they are, it’s just their consciousness

[vivid terrace]

If it’s an experiment it’s gotta be Durandals secret

[proper robin]

On a gigantic scale? That goes beyond the bounds of an experiment.

[eager mason]

So true tho runners could have never been people in the first place

Cool thought

[rotund jolt]

It’s a mind without a physical body, just mechanics

[waxen cosmos]

Thank you kind sir

[rotund jolt]

I don’t believe that I think they used to be actual people

[orchid cosmos]

I mean we have 4 mega corps, a terrorist organisation and a death cult in semi open rebellion to the government. The mega corps might just be running an experiment

Durandals here for jjaro tech

[orchid cosmos]

A theory about chaacters being ai copies has come up twice now

First in TADC now this

[proper robin]

Yeah, and every time I hear it it doesn't hold any water.

[orchid cosmos]

TADC it does in all fairness

I think we’re just cheap labour and with the memory wiping from the runner conversion were manipulated

Borderline slavery

[proper robin]

That's more likely. Though I wouldn't say borderline, 'Until management is satisfied with your results" sounds like indefinitely to me.

[vivid terrace]

Still like the experiment angle, and quite literally the validity of consciousness being transposed into digital space is explored several times across Bungie’s IPs. Multiple ways in Marathon too, there’s a question of “humanity” I think with the battleroids

[lime lagoon]

Anyone have a good video or something they can link to about all the corporations I couldn’t hear the cool cinematics that played over my friends screaming about daredevil in marvel rivals beautiful bum

[placid gust]

lol they’re on YouTube, just search marathon faction intros

All except SekGen, since they didn’t get released

[lime lagoon]

Idk why I didn’t just do that thanks

[neon sparrow]

im still on the lookout for a good arachne intro with the default brightness options

[real pike]

Hello everyone, I accidentally gave my opinion on what I’d perceive you as a plot hole on a different channel. One of our first missions is you turn on the faster than light communications to earth. So we have access to the factions. In theory, this is what they used to send the SOS, which took 100 years to reach earth but now it’s instant, which is what my pothole is. But One mentioned that we’re just using or hijacking the technologies that was already there which means they chose not to use that communication technology for the SOS on purpose. This is gonna be the longest 24 hours of waiting for this game. I’m not even that good at it and I love it.

[rotund jolt]

Is it a good thing that I want to get into art again

Idk why I want to actually take it seriously this time and learn the actual process

[neon sparrow]

i think that the tech for ftl comms were built on tau ceti after the attack on the marathon but before the colony fell

[neon sparrow]

yes ! learn ! it's quite rewarding

[real pike]

Which means the security robots on the planet, decided not to send a signal using their own technology. Which makes corporation a lot darker and evil than anticipated.

[neon sparrow]

that is a possibility. the corporations are likely dishonest in their innocence

or lack of knowledge about what's really going on with this whole anomaly situation

[placid gust]

I interpreted the security bots as being sent after? Like, by the UESC to investigate? Otherwise, where would they come from - we see them deployed from ships.

[placid gust]

I mean, NuCaloric’s whole questline is you investigating - I suspect that they don’t know much, otherwise it’d be a rather significant amount of effort to perpetuate the hoax

[pliant granite]

Super excited for the genetics company questline I'm betting that's where we'll get the really juicy lore relating to runners and shells in general

[neon sparrow]

i don't doubt gaius' curiosity, but that doesn't necessarily say nucaloric corporate is as adamant for answers

[placid gust]

That or they’ll make us smash windows to test the shells fist durability like a certain other faction lmao

[neon sparrow]

i am so ready to learn about what that worm has to say about the details of the runner bioprinting process

[pliant granite]

I know them worms be tired after printing millions of bodies

[merry olive]

Guys, is Marathon real?

[neon sparrow]

or they simply dispose of them and bring in more

[visual lynx]

some people assume that from the fact that he speaks from the end of time in the Infinity epilogue, but I think that he’s there at the end of time because he has escaped from time and can then come back from then to any earlier moment in time.

I think that he has escaped from time because an enigmatic entity shows up in the very first level of infinity, and then repeatedly during each of the jumps between timelines, whose styling turn out to be the same as the entity that results from merging Durandal with Thoth, suggesting that Durandal-Thoth was reaching back across time and between timelines to guide the SO to their own creation and the salvation of the universe.

[pliant granite]

Probably true but its funnier to think the same worms have to print every body after I die spawnrushing algae for the hundredth time

[placid gust]

My biggest curiosity is motor function - how do the worms print joints and muscles that actually respond to electro-nervous input? Are the external components that are not worm printed that are incorporated into the shell during the process? We see that may of the designs are painted on after words in the reveal trailer way way back, so they aren’t necessarily printed as ready product.

[neon sparrow]

i imagine the process is pretty much 1:1 human muscle construction

with some assistance from plastic rib frames, of course

[eager mason]

That could be the case. In the ARG there was that explosion at the mines so one of the companies could be trying to use the effectiveness of runner tech on tau ceti iv to justify their use in industrial settings

[visual lynx]

The marathon had FTL comms in its primary comm array, but that was taken off-line immediately upon the attack in 2794 (which let the UESC know to send a mission to investigate, which took 100ish years to get there). we then had to send a light speed message using the secondary camera in the original marathon game.

now almost 100 years later, the UESC has already returned and set up FTL communications just recently, and that is what we runners are hijacking. The colony didn’t have FTL communications just sitting around available for use for the past hundred years; that’s brand new.

[visual lynx]

The distress signal received in 2888 was not the same distress signal that we sent in the original game back in 2794 but a different message apparently sent by Durandal instead of Leela that must have been sent around 2876 if it arrived in 2888

assuming that Durandal‘s distress signal was sent light speed rather than FTL

[neon sparrow]

still, ftl doesnt mean instant

just <12 years

[visual lynx]

curiously but probably coincidentally, if the Pfhor empire had fallen as it did in marathon 2 in 2881, then the current year of 2893 would be exactly how late it would take news of that to get from Earth to Tau Ceti or vice versa at light speed. I don’t know if that means anything.

[visual lynx]

it seems that FTL communication is basically instant according to the first ARG where in July 2794 the UESC already knows that something happened to the marathon (because they lost communication), which is the same month that the attack happened

[neon sparrow]

woa thats quick

[visual lynx]

I think FTL communication is basically using the same technology as jump pads, to teleport single particles much larger distances than the jump pads can teleport person sized objects around the same ship (but apparently not even from ship to planet).

and I expect that faster than light travel also uses a version of the same technology, jumping ship sized objects significant chunks of the distance between stars, allowing them to travel much faster than light speed, but still not instantaneous like a single jump from one star system to another for a single particle for communications purposes would be

in the marathon 1 manual prologue, the protagonist describes a Pfhor ship arriving FTL in the same Tuncer Mirage effect that he is used to seeing from jump pads since he was born, but never that large, and never without a receiver

[hot thicket]

You are all missing a major question we need answered

How much do I owe

[green stirrup]

two

[visual lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/everything-reaction-meme-gif-23306023

[hot thicket]

If I need to pay off shell debt is this possible or are we screwed forever

[pliant granite]

Screwed forever

[hot thicket]

Look im just saying is this another tom nook situation

[neon sparrow]

i wish that we could see the tuncer mirage effect in numarathon

[pliant granite]

Speaking of shells why dont they just copy the battle Droid whatever the hell the guy from classic is? Dude was moving like the terminator for presumably much less cost that 1 trillion dollars

[visual lynx]

maybe we do? because I would assume the teleportation technology being used there is the same teleportation technology humanity has been using for centuries if not just more advanced

[neon sparrow]

you'd need a genuine human corpse to reanimate i think

[visual lynx]

grafted to machines your builders did not understand and probably aren’t in plentiful supply

[dry gorge]

Is there a lore reason for why I love marathon so much that I’ve been shaking for the past 2 days without it?

[visual lynx]

maybe they hope to find more of those on Tau Ceti since [REDACTED] WERE AT TAU CETI

[neon sparrow]

the visual effects of the exfils are very pronounced, so its hard to see if theres any tuncer miraging

[neon sparrow]

i believe the line "like a trillion bucks" is hyperbole

lemme check the sekiguchi reciepts actually

so a Sekiguchi Bioprinter costs 5,950,000 a piece

[cosmic river]

How much does each shell cost material wise

[neon sparrow]

so if you want a gigantic runner printing operation, it would run you back multiple trillions, but to just print one runner, i think the value would be in the millions easily

as for materials... i'm not sure

these item descriptions aren't exactly the easiest to make out

[burnt nebula]

mostly just food for the worms and some electricity im guessing. but then you have the blue blood and maybe some skeletal structure that might bring the cost up. and i'd ljke to know if they have brains or is it just silicone in there or what...

at todays ram prices a silicone brain would bring the cost up a lot tbh

[neon sparrow]

in terms of the brain, a lot of depictions have it be like a full-on bio-printed brain while others like in the sekiguchi teases from february 10th have a capsule-shaped housing instead

[cosmic river]

How much do credits equate to in USD?

[neon sparrow]

the sekiguchi reciept i have pulled up doesnt have a monetary symbol attatched

so i'm assuming the uesc has unified all currency into the credits sytem

so it all depends on the conversion rate of usd to credits

which i dont think we know

[neon sparrow]

there's also the cost of gear and clothing items, since all runners come out the printer essentially naked

[cosmic river]

I think clothes are part of the runner shell, and gear comes from sponsor kits

[neon sparrow]

by "gear", i mean things like equipment vests that the shells wear
... would assassin's body harness be removable? i'm honestly not sure, that would be cursed

[rotund stump]

new noise on some misinfo hours rn 💀

[neon sparrow]

and for "clothing" i mean things like vandal's big shirt and their mysterious jacket sleeves

[subtle oracle]

do we think the cinematics are tied with the same runners

or is it like in game and diff every time

[neon sparrow]

i have no reason to believe so

[subtle oracle]

i didnt think so either

[rotund stump]

speaking of vandal I'm surprised sekgen greenlit actual official printing of the shell given the history

if the cinematic's canon at all

[hazy mist]

speaking of does nayone have the codex entry for vandal

never got it and im curious since i heard it came from teh mars revolutions

[rotund stump]

it did yeah

somebody stole a caravan of baseline shells, modded them and dripped them the fuck out, runners donned them and ambushed another UESC caravan and it became an overnight sensation

MIDA recruitment went up a whole 7500% after and vandal's style went global among mars youth

UESC ops difficulty spiked since everybody's wearing the same thing 💀

[neon sparrow]

honestly i get it

[ivory token]

if i wanna start catching up to the lore is the wiki reliable or should i look elsewhere?

[hazy mist]

ohh thats cool

[ivory token]

fuck theres so many arachne

[hazy mist]

yeah i am surprised thats still printed

[neon sparrow]

i would absoluely jump at the chance to be a dripped out revolutionary

[hazy mist]

if it actually does say its popular amongst youth thats interesting to me

[fathom mason]

Does anyone have a mega repo or something for all the arg info? Additionally, is there another arg going?

[hazy mist]

considering its a shell and all that

[neon sparrow]

i think that if sekgen disallowed the printing of vandal shells, their stocks would take a solid 28% hit

not to mention mida firebombing sekgen hq

[hazy mist]

?! clearly i missed a lot

i skipped ove ra lot of codex entries tbh im gonna wait till full release to read them

[ivory token]

oh shit theres a lore archive

[rotund stump]

and vandal's amp came from biocybernetic athletics who jailbreak their own movement systems for an advantage, MIDA just stretched the potential a 3 whole leagues further

disruptor's also a MIDA invention iirc

[neon sparrow]

makess sense to me

[rotund stump]

I also got the full recon tab if you want it lol I mained recon like crazy back in the slam

[hazy mist]

yes pleaseespecially if youve got like screenshots or anything

ive been so curious since hearing about shells about what theyre used for on a regular basis

[rotund stump]

can't post em but I can give a tldr

[hazy mist]

okok

if you do have screenshots u can dm as well but either works

[rotund stump]

at the very least we have 2 shells that were and contained proprietary UESC tech

UESC had a project utilizing shells for all kindsa military use, destroyer's rumored to cloud the user's mind somewhat with a shield made of hard light tech

recon on the other hand had tech that hoarded info so much it had a small chance of scrambling neural matrixes and driving the user crazy

on top of that when recon schemas leaked on the black market runners jumped at it and used it to jailbreak the every personality matrix possible, starting from blackbird they found the UESC had certain restrictions on the matrixes that forced them to do stuff

so on top of user agency concerns and potential psychosis the UESC shelved the project from public eye, but there's still rumors they still deploy destroyer shells for covert ops

[hazy mist]

awesomee

do we have any other shellsa ssociated with certain factions?

[rotund stump]

for the loosest end triage's med drone was made by traxus

[hazy mist]

got it

[rotund stump]

and iirc and hearsay runners had to mod the aux matrix cuz it sounded too caring since it's a medic shell lol

assassin's smoke disc was also originally for firefighting that got a retrofit + nanotech that synced with its camo filter

nothing on thief yet since...yk

[hazy mist]

yeah😓

[pliant granite]

I theorize that our factions still put restrictions in place specifically memory restrictions given that there's a soft implication that both vandal and assassin may have originally been the people in that car on the beach given their thematic connection via the music that the car people were listening to right before their deaths

[rotund stump]

but speaking of her I really like how human she looks for the overall theming

just

[hazy mist]

thief concept art is very interesting to me

[rotund stump]

pure vanity and greed

[hazy mist]

shes definitely made to look rich

in soem of the art shes got like necklaces adn stuff on

makes me curious what shes built for cuz it definitely doesnt seem like military

[rotund stump]

very not military 💀 💀

feel like thief's very focused on beauty and all that hence the human face

[hazy mist]

yeah

and her design feels very like high-fashiony

[rotund stump]

vandal has half of one compared to every other shell feeling so utilitarian since vandal started out as a revolution icon

[hazy mist]

fancy jacket etc etc

[rotund stump]

yep yep

[pliant granite]

I believe that thief is exactly as her name says and was designed to be a thief potentially stealing valuable assets and data from rival corps and her more human appearance eis for the sake of somewhat blending in

[hazy mist]

ohh interesting

[rotund stump]

there's so many ways to go with thief

[pliant granite]

Both her grapple and drone would be invaluable for retrieving things from corporate towers

[vestal onyx]

she's got ball joint thighs and swivel knees, she's not blending in anywhere lolol

[pliant granite]

Pants

[rotund stump]

could have a rogue faction origin or could be made for corpo black ops yeah

[hazy mist]

do you guys think shell clothes are like built on

[rotund stump]

I really thought corpo black ops would be vandal's origin LOL

[hazy mist]

like they cant take them off at all

cuz if they could then thief could definitely blend in pretty well with some effort

[rotund stump]

some parts would be

[hazy mist]

i think the main issue would be the skin texture that shells have

[rotund stump]

thief's jacket feels pretty auxiliary but triage's med vest absolutely not

[hazy mist]

yeah

[rotund stump]

neither is recon's helmet or destroyer's armor

[eternal knoll]

p sure vandal is meant to have originated as a mida shell?

[pliant granite]

Honestly difficult to draw the line but a shell would most definitely be capable of wearing additional clothing to cover their more mechanical aspects

[hazy mist]

yeah we were just talkign about that earlier

i was curious if any other ones were

[rotund stump]

think about it too limbs people take for granted and anything auxiliary just adds to the vanity thief's known for

[eternal knoll]

got ya, i caught the bit about destroyer mb

[inland crypt]

Recon... helmet.... can I haz recon?

[rotund stump]

oculus quest for thee

[hazy mist]

also kidna curious about rook

do we have lore for it

[rotund stump]

proto UESC shell

[pliant granite]

In one of the dev videos they said rook is a proto shell

[rotund stump]

that's...about it I think lol

[hazy mist]

icic thats about what i assumed

[rotund stump]

eventually became the regular patrols we see iirc

[hazy mist]

so excited for the full game to come out so i can just spend hours reading everything

[pliant granite]

Devs should 100% add decommissioned rooks to the rook spawn points that disappear when a rook spawns there

[placid gust]

We see in the reveal cinematic that glitch was printed without her fit. They must have, like, separate printers for cloths, or they just have a stock since I think they have NuCal product numbers on them.

[hazy mist]

ohh thats true i forgot about that

[visual lynx]

are yall discussing about whether runners can remove their clothes?

-# … asking for a friend?

[eternal knoll]

i do think that cinematic contains some dubiously canon visuals, like the exploded moons and the UESC logo on the terminal where... oni? is doing the grounding exercise

[pliant granite]

Earlier I mentioned the figurine of the s'pht compiler we saw in the cinematic and someone theorized that maybe people worshiped the unknown alien force as gods I just wanna say that dude was 100% right because I just saw in a video that the figurine is an actual lootable item ingame 'confiscated colonial folklore' and the description states that it is built due to beliefs surrounding the compilers

[hazy mist]

sometimes i just watch the cinematic on loop while im drawing and i like pausing and looking at all the little text and details

[eternal knoll]

thief can clearly take off her legs

[pliant granite]

More so whether or not they can change their outfits it came from us talking about thief potentially being made to blend in

[rotund stump]

either rogue in origin or made for corpo black ops which I thought was vandal's origin until codex told us it's from MIDA lol

the grapple would make sense too

[eternal knoll]

interesting that the colonists would have had the knowledge that the s'pht weren't as simply hostile as the pfhor for sure...

[rotund stump]

thematically the jacket should be auxiliary, fuels her vanity

[pliant granite]

Yeah I theorized corpo black ops earlier stealing data and assets

[rotund stump]

vandal's made to feel casual and human to be approachable cuz what's a polished statue in the eyes of revolutionaries?

[pliant granite]

Could have also been out of fear as the description states that people sought comfort by making these beliefs

[rotund stump]

and the other 3 just feel extremely utilitarian

[eternal knoll]

vandal doesn't look that approachable to me. she looks kinda hard to talk to

[hazy mist]

vandal definitely looks kinda civilian made

baggy clothes and all that

[rotund stump]

her looking pissed just feels like the common mars sentiment imma be real 💀

[hazy mist]

makeup almost feels like anti-facial recognition typa stuff

[rotund stump]

lemme refresh my destroyer knowledge rq

got pics from other people

[pliant granite]

Vandal has an extremely classic punk type of look which fits with faction that made her considering it consists of people larping as revolutionaries

[compact breach]

i saw someone say that in the codex she (vandal) was originally "stolen" from UESC or else by mida, not sure though

[rotund stump]

she is

stolen baseline shell and modded to have a disruptor and movement inspired by biocyber athletics massively improved

made a bunch of them and runners ambushed another UESC caravan

[compact breach]

then we learn more about thief with her codex too nice !

[hazy mist]

i kinda wish they kept thiefs big boots i really love them in the concept design

[eternal knoll]

millions are asking if they'll ever do a vandal skin with those much more fetching eyes from the cinematic

[rotund stump]

she has boots on with her white rabbit skin lol

as like a throwback to the actual white rabbit way back

[inland crypt]

I go by bionicle logic where clothes are more of an accessory than a necessity due to being biomechanical lifeforms with no privates

[hazy mist]

is that the albino lookin one

[rotund stump]

the one in the official perimeter run footage

[hazy mist]

yaya

[rotund stump]

but anyway this

[hazy mist]

only briefly looked at that one so i never noticed

[rotund stump]

ah

[rotund stump]

literal walking war crime machine btw

never saw use solely because of the Consequences of Violence treaty

combat science labs was on some shit

and the hard light barricade mentioned earlier's also first used by police units hence the riot barricade name

SnD's considered too effective hence the mental clouding and potential psychosis

corps still use destroyer shells in security deployments and are rumored to also use them in pinpoint strikes against runner ops in sol

[pliant granite]

I wish I would've saved or at least read the triage lore considering he was my main in the server slam

[strong perch]

maybe “somewhere in the heavens, they are waiting” is referring to the wrckn imprisoned in stars

[rotund stump]

jailbroken aux matrix since the original was too caring, med drone came from traxus companion tech

and I uhhhhhh forgot his ult 😭

also remembered smth about them being deployed in the mars mines

[pliant granite]

"The original was too caring" THATS MY BOY RIGHT THERE

[rotund stump]

triage my goat ❤️ ❤️

[compact breach]

ookay so that's explain things

[rotund stump]

for such an automated universe you'd think mining would be automated already

reboot+'s defib voltage is probably controllable

[compact breach]

found it weird that he would protect a dying destro instead of running of to escape/ potentielly catch up to thief

[rotund stump]

but if mining's automated it probably is for rebooting machines then

[placid gust]

I mean, Destroyer might have had some decent gear lol. Never know.

[compact breach]

well the alien was way too much for them that was no way worth of anything than coming out alive xd

[pliant granite]

The true triage player mentality who cares about the teammate running away when there's one dying in front of me

[rotund stump]

I mean I let my team bleed out to lure the rat assassin out sometimes 💀

commed beforehand obviously

[compact breach]

not really mine though but would be understable if they are in debt each time they die

[umbral wadi]

i saw people say this game is a precursor of bungie halo

[rotund stump]

plus it's just not worth a rez in some scenarios sometimes

[rotund stump]

old trilogy came before halo yeah

[pliant granite]

Valid tbh since reboot+ can insta rez from full dead anyway

[rotund stump]

halo's also meant to be a marathon continuation before it became hall

[umbral wadi]

oh i though was lroe wise

[rotund stump]

bungieverse™

sigh

idk how pathways toward darkness gets away with it lol

[umbral wadi]

ah ok im a bit dumb and this game is a introduction to marathon

[pliant granite]

I could've sworn that halo destiny pathways and marathon all took place in the same verse?

[umbral wadi]

to me

[rotund stump]

welcome to lore chat in that case lol

[rotund stump]

consider them separate until otherwise

[scenic summit]

Do we know what caliber the light ammo in the game is? Is it .44?

[umbral wadi]

so the player is a counsius that cyberacme licensed right

because they have a debt

[hot thicket]

no were in debt to pay off the process by which we were uploaded

[pliant granite]

I doubt it has a defined calibur or is meant to be taken as such given that the weapons that use it have varying barrel width and damage

[umbral wadi]

i mean they as the player

[hot thicket]

every thing is mass produced and general purpose

[rotund stump]

us runners give up our bodies to inhabit biomata shells printed by sekgen, consciousness housing's leased by cyac who's known to bill us (sekgen likely too but unmentioned), oni allows us to do contracts for other factions to repay our cyac debt faster

[umbral wadi]

my bad english isnt my first language

[placid gust]

I’m assuming that’s the justification for the seasonal wipes - it’s CyAc and SekGen taking their “installment” from us to allow us to keep operating

[hot thicket]

we will own nothing and be happy, or uncaring as we probably arent able to afford emotional processors

[rotund stump]

for how caring triage was made to be I think a semi-human appearance is pretty necessary lol

just like thief's vanity and vandal's casual...ness

[pliant granite]

Was mentioned in the vandal cinematic that shells are paid for and billed to existing credit line

[rotund stump]

vandal cinematic?

[hot thicket]

every shell puts you deeper in debt

[rotund stump]

oh the short film

[umbral wadi]

shells are mass produced and mida wants shell to be free

[pliant granite]

I mean the one that heavily features vandal as well as assassin from around 10 months ago

[scenic summit]

My guess would be .44 since that's what the clip fed pistols use in the first game so presumably there's a bunch of it lying around. Varying barrel width and damage could be gun construction as those things do have an effect. My guess is that its all the same caliber ammunition for standardization reasons.

The MIPS rounds are probably microcontroller rounds, as MIPS is a real life computer thing.

[hot thicket]

Shells are the only way for us to enjoy physicality, with out it we are ghosts out of bodies, held in storage somewhere

[rotund stump]

then yeah the mielgo short film

[hot thicket]

MIDA might be about to spark a runners rights revolution

[rotund stump]

not really

mida's known to twist truths into anything that softens corpo-gov grip if it benefits

[pliant granite]

When it comes to damage the barrel length affecting muzzle velocity could explain but the barrel width variance indicates different caliburs being used

[rotund stump]

I'm surprised it's used not only in snipers lol

wstr and misriah both feed mips rounds

[scenic summit]

My first thought was that the rifling in the barrels of the guns would be different depending on the model, so the spin on the cartridge would be different

[rotund jolt]

Wsg papis

[rotund stump]

oh and fun fact about the misriah it's named after (the titular figure or location of) the misriah massacre that allowed old MIDA to take over mars

[scenic summit]

So the barrel size could feasibly be different for a barrel length, but I've not researched that part in detail I guess

Gun science gets complicated

[rotund stump]

well it's not just vanity and greed

[pliant granite]

When it comes to ballistics having a barrel that is wider than your projectile just makes it terribly inaccurate if not outright useless due to the gas escaping around the projectile, light ammo exists as a general concept to avoid overcrowding the ammo pool with individual caliburs and isn't meant to be taken as a standard calibur

[rotund stump]

to be named thief the greedy also has to be taking what she wants herself

the limb joints having much more freedom of movement makes sense + being barefoot technically means more grip on rougher surfaces than rigid footwear like recon's boots

[pliant granite]

We dont really get a good look at em but I assume she has something like claws or perhaps specialized pads like those seen on the feet of geckos and similar lizards of the sake of gripping terrain

[rotund stump]

could assume that too yeah

that said she could absolutely trade that for more vanity as seen with the white rabbit schema with boots on 💀

outside of faction skins or ones with established lore I kinda don't like considering cosmetics canon but oh well

shadow index and midnight decay collectives are interesting tho

[pliant granite]

The only way that kinda of thing can work is by establishing lore for the skin like it being a prior/newer/different faction produced/ect version of the shell

[rotund stump]

smth like that

[pliant granite]

It could also literally be something as simple as a choice made by the runner to customize their shell

Like we see in the cinematic with vandal showing up with different skins and outfits

[rotund stump]

midnight decay collective's known for overworking their own shells to the point of being suicidal and shadow index has no real rep ouside of watching matches and gifting them the color schema

but the idea of vandal rejecting all that and picking her fits is kinda banger 💀

"fuck representing I wanna look good"

[pliant granite]

I love the rook cinematic so much you can see how much effort they put into his movements to convey a very human sense of fear and tension despite the body being completely robotic

[pliant granite]

Pretty much since she puts on a few different shirts

[rotund stump]

vandal probably has the most complex theming as with anarchy in general

it's such an antithesis of its own consequent concept

[modern narwhal]

That’s a good point I didn’t see it that way; thank you

[scenic summit]

My hypothesis is that they're programmed to fragment in a particular way depending on the force applied to them, thus making them usable in both shotguns and sniper rifles.

[pliant granite]

I think they understood very deeply the type of mindset that would accompany playing rook against squads and everything else and decided to incorporate that

[rotund stump]

I trust bungie to not abuse the nanotech troupe but there's a mips converter for the wstr that turns it into slug rounds lol

[scenic summit]

Sure, ok. I could see a highly advanced microcontroller doing that without nanotech.

[rotund stump]

smth like that I suppose

imagine the converter just shaves the bullet into a slug round 💀

[scenic summit]

I was thinking maybe a converter would set a flag in the MIPS microcontroller, so when the primer is struck the round behaves differently. Maybe its encrypted in a particular way so you need the converter to do it in a reasonable time frame.

Either way, MIPS implies to me the usage of disposable computers that you're shooting at someone.

[rotund jolt]

I just watched the new cinematic and it looks so different compared to the old one

[scenic summit]

Yeah, its very well made

[azure monolith]

guys

question, are marathon (the trillogy) and other bungie games related in some way?

excluding the marathon symbols all over their games

[rotund stump]

consider the bungieverse invalid unless otherwise

except pathways toward darkness in relation to marathon

[scenic summit]

https://klipy.com/gifs/george-lucas

[rotund stump]

I'd exclude that as well myself but the community considers it a prelude

[azure monolith]

fair

[scenic summit]

Just used the discord UI for that link, didn't know it would just be a link thought it would post the .gif

[pliant granite]

Ngl I do fw the way vandal looks now but I would also love to see her reveal trailer appearance be a skin

[subtle oracle]

What if they give us the dual pistols

Like a red tier set of regular ass 44 mag revolvers but they take up both gun slots as one weapon

[rotund stump]

dual magnums would be ridiculous LOL

[subtle oracle]

Would be a sick callback tho

[scenic summit]

Marathon .44s were magazine fed but yeah, cool either way

[rotund stump]

if it's dual wield CEs I'd take it but magnum just feels so impractical lol

CEs would be cool for CQB

[subtle oracle]

Imagine using them disables your reload button 😭

Thatd be too much but it would be very funny

[scenic summit]

Waste the remainder of the magazine to reload, yeah

[pliant granite]

I just found out the original marathon is credited as the first game to allow mouse based aiming

[modest zephyr]

thats fire

[scenic summit]

Didn't want to use mouse look on Doom 2 until they got the Voxel Doom mod going for it lol

(the sprites stretch iirc)

Still fun to play retro doom though even without mouse look imo

[subtle oracle]

wait wait so the game calls them 44 mags

but the manual says they fire .45?

according to fandom at least which

if they got that wrong big shocker

omg no it indeed fires .45

what a waste

[scenic summit]

uhhh, maybe. Fandom is telling me in the first one it was .45 but in the second and third it was ".44 MMC A1" whatever that is

[subtle oracle]

thats the S'pht copy

gooooot it

the regular is a .45 caliber standard issue handgun

the S'pht A1 is a true 44 mag

oh i was reading everything wrong my dumbass

[scenic summit]

I'm willing to bet the round itself is a hotter round than one today, so we couldn't just use ballistics charts to ballpark what's going on precisely

[hollow glacier]

guys, does it look to anyone else like the compiler is trying to communicate something to triage in the cinematic?

[subtle oracle]

probably him hacking the triage

[hollow glacier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1461857223109116039/1478599505766125569/Screenshot_2310.png?ex=69a8fc99&is=69a7ab19&hm=5dbe687960d32d52a6c614a5171b3c01ef0d25bf190bde385fa4f193f08bdd86&

[still matrix]

Mega Class

[hollow glacier]

but why show him the environment?

[subtle oracle]

Maybe thats Lh'owon idk

[hollow glacier]

feels like its saying "theres something more important than whats here"

but in a very alien way

[subtle oracle]

lh'owon is lava tho

Maybe. We wont know till we go huh

[pliant granite]

It's also tied with another game that came out on the exact same day for the first fps to allow dual welding pistols

[hollow glacier]

oouhg

[rotund stump]

the angel motifs are telling I'll say

maybe just for scare factor tho

biblical ass horror on a ghost ship

[subtle oracle]

So the thief in his squad and the theif at the end. are they implied to be the same person?

[hollow glacier]

Did you read the Anchorite provisions lore?

[hollow glacier]

yes

[rotund stump]

nnnnnnnope

[hollow glacier]

they went in solo this time

[rotund stump]

gimme a tldr rq?

was it from the april arg btw?

could read on karn's site

[subtle oracle]

see but this makes me think (along with the assassin/vandal fist bump) that these shells are individuals that carry through the cinematics

[modest zephyr]

Bungie really built like that, the amount of fps firsts theyre responsible for is actually wild

[subtle oracle]

Bc the likelihood of running into your squadmate as a solo is insane normally

[hollow glacier]

From the server slam, anchorite provisions collectible. its the personal log of a post-collapse colony survivor who slowly went crazy but was apparently kept safe and "human" by a "red messenger" who visits sometimes

[rotund stump]

ah

[hollow glacier]

youd be shocked how many times i ran into my friends in runs x.x

i killed my friends a lot

[rotund stump]

could tie into the confiscated folklore figurine collectible too

[pliant granite]

I was not even familiar with their game until recently and I'm all at once being gifted the understanding of how legendary they are

[rotund stump]

or was that it?

[hollow glacier]

it was not that

[subtle oracle]

oof damn. I never found the same person twice tbh.

[rotund stump]

aw

[hollow glacier]

the folklore figurine is an outpost item

which means,

im hoping the folklore figuring continues that story

[rotund stump]

prayge

[subtle oracle]

im wondering if for the sake of the audience, each shell shown in a single cinematic is the same if you see it later. bc they never show 2 of the same shell. But theyre not connected through cinematics

[rotund stump]

the compiler protecting survivors was interesting tho

[modest zephyr]

oh yeah, the trends they set with halo and halo 2 are still felt today

[hollow glacier]

I think this is the case.

not every cinematic is about the same group of runners as the last ones

like, in the original one the team was Destroyer, recon and assassin

[subtle oracle]

I assume the cinematice will expand as we get more shells

[hollow glacier]

and triage, thief and vandal

[modest zephyr]

and tbh they cooked really hard with destiny, the first game and the early days of d2 stood on their own, even today nothing really matches what they offer

[hollow glacier]

Marton taste so good when you dont have a bitch in your ear telling you its shit

[subtle oracle]

Bungie is a vg Hall of Fame studio and people are like "omg its gonna fail and sony will shut them down" be so fr

[rotund stump]

waiting for the 4 other shell cinematics rn and then we'll see what S2 brings

[scenic summit]

I also like how in Marathon 2 you can dual wield shotguns. The one-handed reloading would look like the shotgun from Doom: The Dark Ages. Or, The Terminator.

[rotund stump]

only hoping they don't inflate the pool too quick

[subtle oracle]

Also bungie is the only studio ik of thats dropped some absolute dogshit and then went "alr lock in" and dropped one of their best pieces of content ever right after. MULTIPLE TIMES

[hollow glacier]

imene theres only one new weapon post launch before season 2, and every weapon in game is essentially its own archetype

tbh mods are what make the weapons variable

new mods will do crazy things for the sandbox

[rotund stump]

yeah cuz I would not run a stock overrun 💀 💀

[subtle oracle]

Osiris to Forsaken, Lightfall to Final Shape, Season of the Drifter to Opulence

[modest zephyr]

im dying for the pinkman studios and Alberto Meigo to just create a full fledged Marathon animated series like studio Fortiche
did with Arcane for League of Legends.. but I dont think thats gonna happen sadly

[subtle oracle]

I really think this is part of the direction bungie wants

[hollow glacier]

its also cool that they can continue this trend of "weapons good out the box" and "weapons only good with mods" to keep things variable

[subtle oracle]

i think they wanna drop a show mdiway through the game's life

[modest zephyr]

I prayge id personally drop money on funding it if thats what it takes

[hollow glacier]

destiny never got this many cinematics

[subtle oracle]

theyre putting sm effort and time into these gorgeous cinematics. It would shock me if we didnt get an Arcane level animated show

[hollow glacier]

whats nice about marathon is it isnt a game full of cutscenes, everything is kinda diagetic when youre playing it, so they can put all those resources into new cinematics

bungie does have a team for working on shows too

[subtle oracle]

Yeah the resources saved on the campaign side let them DUMP it into promotional material

which has absolutely made some ppl play it

that reveal cinematic was universally praised

[hollow glacier]

this new cinematic is kinda the best game cinematic ever made if you ask me

just

cinema

Love Mielgo's as well, and maybe the triage main in me is biased, but this new one really feels like the experience of the game

[jovial ridge]

Speaking of the new cinematic, has anyone uncovered if the ticket looking thing that flashes at the end means anything?

[subtle oracle]

literally if its not the best one, the reveal cinematic is. like 2 of the best pieces of video game cinema ive seen

[hollow glacier]

timestamp?

[jovial ridge]

ill send you the screenshot its at the end

[hollow glacier]

is it the green distorted looking thing at the end?

i have a few ideas... but theyre probably all wrong

[astral lance]

That's pretty much been they're mo for the past few years.

[jovial ridge]

Yeah, I just dm'd the screenshot, I'm looking into some of the things, but I'm not really the most knowledgable person into those kinda things

[hollow glacier]

could have something to do with the website terminal arg

but other than that idk

[subtle oracle]

Man i gotta rewatch the vidocs

[jovial ridge]

Yeah, I imagine so. I haven't seen that yet. Where can I find it

[subtle oracle]

Evidently the shells "override" the original consciousness' personality a bit

which is why each shell seems to act the same/have a unique voice/attitude in the cinematics/menus

[gleaming glen]

don’t all of the shells see different things

[subtle oracle]

so i think what we see in the cinematics could theoretically be called the "same" people even though they dont "know" each other from other cinematics

[hollow glacier]

https://unityispower.io/

[subtle oracle]

so Reveal vs the recent MV, assassin and Vandal act the same but the people behind them are different

[hollow glacier]

"personality matrix" i think it was referred to

make it "easier to perform that shells function"

Runner shells arent the custom prosthetics that people on earth use, unless specifically commissioned like orion or modified like charter. They are tools

Even the consciousness ejection and storage was originally designed as a last resort for sekiguchi customers who had catastrophic shell failure

but for runners?

[subtle oracle]

So i assume most of the shells will act similar through the rest of the cinematice

[hollow glacier]

ye

[subtle oracle]

we're almost at the 36 hr mark holy shit

[rotund stump]

executive motor and cognitive functions aside you're up to the personality matrix to perform your actions yeah

[subtle oracle]

and memories i assume? The reveal cinematic with the picture is odd

[hollow glacier]

runners are unstable. Sekiguchi cant be trusted to keep our original memories. They'd rather control what memories we have to make us more subservient

[rotund stump]

not too sure about the grounding exercise but memory loss is not surprising considering the PTSD repeated resyncs from ASF inflicts on the user

you're better off dead and waiting for reweave if absolute shell failure occurs lol

[subtle oracle]

do the disembodied people housing the shells have any personality at all or is it simply the thoughts necessary to do the how and then the shell decides the why and when

[hollow glacier]

depends on how much we can find out that sekiguchi has manipulated about us

our memories are just data points to sekiguchi

if it makes us a better runner, we probably keep it

if not?

then its likely replaced

runners being shown the same picture representing their mother or childhood selves

[scenic summit]

They might be okay at faking memories or removing them, but people catch on to who they are at some point when the lies don't make sense

[subtle oracle]

ig its just unclear if its the same runner diff shell or not

[hollow glacier]

we are expendable. Essentially owned by sekiguchi and cyberachme. We cant go back to our past selves. We can only evolve into something more

[rotund stump]

it's explicitly cyac that houses our consciousness but biomata are a joint corpo effort

[hollow glacier]

its supposed to be unclear

i imagine that if you run a shell enough times you start to just become that shell

[rotund stump]

well no we...don't know that

[hollow glacier]

thats why i said i imagine

[rotund stump]

it's unclear where our bodies are if not disposed but let's not assume the absolute worst either yeah

[hollow glacier]

nucaloric probably turned your body into a cheeseburger

read the drinkable cheeseburger codex entry

its grim

[rotund stump]

even as runners and an unregistered biocyber I'd imagine there's some kind of a way back

[quick lintel]

I'm looking at all of this, and this is making me think

What were the original like purpose of the whole transferring consciousness thing aswell as shells

Was all of this started because of tao cetti

[rotund stump]

nope

runners and biomata are present and active in sol running their own illegal ops

charter's one and he assassinated a trax executive before vanishing from the records

[scenic summit]

Don't want to

1. expose people to contagion
2. get valuable human expertise killed

...I was assuming

[hollow glacier]

Originally shells were bespoke and biomata were designed as prosthetics or ways for soldiers to be reusable, but with the tau ceti gold rush, specific lines of shells were taken and modified to be used for tau ceti harvesting

[rotund stump]

wait where did they say it's bespoke?

[hollow glacier]

weaveworm stasis knot codex

[rotund stump]

oh huh

tbf we also use black market schema so

[hollow glacier]

Talks about sekiguchi having the awarded best in class biomata for prosthesis, and talks about their new consciousness capture in case of catastrophic shell failure as a new feature

from back before the tau ceti rush

[green plume]

what'd i do? 😛

[rotund stump]

explains vandal shells getting printed I suppose

even the ones leaked from the UESC CSL

[scenic summit]

uhh... probably nothing? I'm just going to stand over here... lol

[hollow glacier]

There were in fact other licensed biomata manufacturers, but certain awards were only given to sekiguchi in terms of quality standards, and illegal biomata of course is its own can of worms literally

[empty wasp]

Shells weren't always bespoke unless the lore's changed, Traxus had bought many shells from Sekiguchi for mining purposes

[hollow glacier]

i said originally, but as technology grew it expanded

soldiers and workers etc

Tau ceti was its own shell revolution

[snow heath]

Do the runner shells have their own lore?

[hollow glacier]

yes

[rotund stump]

yep

[snow heath]

What’s Recon’s Story?

[rotund stump]

I've done too much explaining to too many people imma leave this to y'all lol

I wanna have my lunch 😭

[sharp birch]

could the diremarsh anomalies be the result of the freed wrkncacnter wrking its magic and cacnting everything in the nearby universe

[pliant pulsar]

Which shell is the most hung?

[hollow glacier]

i wouldnt assume its "freed" in any sense

[sharp birch]

Doesnt marton take place after marton 2

[sharp birch]

ok but dormant

[hollow glacier]

Gabriel when affected by the anomaly starts describing tau ceti as a "prison"

seems like theres another wrk in tau ceti

that hates us

and wants out

[sharp birch]

Yea

I thoguht that too tau ceti itself is a prison

Tuff if real

[hollow glacier]

Machines dont work under tau ceti

and if you go into caves as a human you start experiencing severe psychosis

so

theres something below the surface

and it wants out

it waits, lingers, loathes

It will PURGE

[sharp birch]

but tauceti isn't like a sun or black hole that we know of

bc arent the working cacklers only prisoned inside those

[pliant pulsar]

Lol

[sharp birch]

or maybe its a dormant star aftrer imprisoning one

?

[hollow glacier]

apparently in Pathways into Darkness theres a Wrk under earth

so

[sharp birch]

Oh yea

forgot about that

nevermind

yea

[hollow glacier]

:)

[rotund stump]

early model shell leaked onto the black market from the UESC CSL that has proprietary tech still in service, info pulse has a small chance to drive users crazy, kitbashed bug drone acts as a grenade on legs

runners used shells to jailbreak the personality matrixes, starting with blackbird they found that the CSL implements restrictions in every single one

[sharp birch]

twerking wacklers

[rotund stump]

second paragraph's relevance lies in the UESC previously trying to utilize biomata as military enforcement and eventually had to shelf the project from public eye

[hollow glacier]

The anomaly site is the only location that the earth has cracked and reacted like that. Its been theorized as either the planets immune response or the brain waves of the living planet

[rotund stump]

also links to destroyer lore

fyi CSL = combat science lab, you'll hear this a coupla times throughout

[snow heath]

So… hmmmm

[hollow glacier]

I didnt read the shell lore because i was reading all the consumables i obtained haha

so many collectible lore tabs

so many voice lines

so many secrets

[rotund stump]

destroyer's a walking war crime machine btw 💀 💀

[hollow glacier]

hints at B. Strauss torturing Durandal and causing multiple door failures

[rotund stump]

and vandal originated as a kitbashed mida shell modified from a couple baseline shells stolen from the UESC

[snow heath]

Recon was blackbird during the playtests last year right? Or was it always recon?

[rotund stump]

recon the shell, blackbird the matrix

[snow heath]

Ohhhh

[hollow glacier]

Series and lineup

[snow heath]

Hmmm

[hollow glacier]

utility and visuals/personality

so there could be other, non-blackbird recon shells

[snow heath]

Got it got it

[rotund stump]

futterman's the best voice for blackbird they could've cast honestly I love the super deep voice

[hollow glacier]

shes so hot

Im imagining the new shell coming out in season 2 is the UESC shell from the reveal

cuz theyre in the collectors edition

and their helmet is in game

as a gold item

[rotund stump]

could we guess the archetype from now actually?

[hollow glacier]

maybe?

could be a new destroyer type

[rotund stump]

destroyer's big on offense with a shield, vandal's just...vandal, recon's for detection, triage for meds, assassin for infil, thief for looting

if there's offense we need a defense

destroyer's barricade doesn't feel like enough defense to override his offense identity

could very well be a defense shell

[hollow glacier]

I feel like we might get a shell with more status debuffs

we dont have a toxin shell

we have emp, overheat, hack and movement restraint on shells right now

[snow heath]

Is there a good reference video for the complete lore?

[hollow glacier]

your codex :D

[snow heath]

I could just sit here and watch you guys talk all day tbh

[hollow glacier]

The codex has voiced entries all over

[rotund stump]

hiddenxperia has some good vids on the old trilogy but you can check out jakethealright otherwise

[snow heath]

If you had to put a real world country in comparison to each faction what would they be?

[hollow glacier]

Traxus is america

like 1-1

[snow heath]

Perfect

I like Traxus lol

I hoped you said that

[hollow glacier]

Capitalist corporate hellscape through and through

you have no rights with traxus

[snow heath]

That maintenance contract was lame asl though

No right huh?

[rotund stump]

oh there's worse 💀

[snow heath]

Then that’s not America lol

[rotund stump]

algae ponds was literally o block LOL

[hollow glacier]

aha

ahahaha

[rotund stump]

laughs in actually functional health insurance systems

[snow heath]

Well lol

So what country would get all of MIDAs glory?

[rotund stump]

none technically

but old mida did run a fash gov for a bit

[hollow glacier]

Whichever one most recently killed their dictator and installed a new one

[snow heath]

Okay so Nu Caloric is China?

[hollow glacier]

nucaloric is american agriculture

your body is just calories

your waste is calories

you are calories

[hazy mist]

poo burgers

[hollow glacier]

the world is calories

[rotund stump]

and then think of sekgen as toyota if they did everything and cyac as microsoft if they had a monopoly

[plush venture]

Traxus is probably China

[hollow glacier]

Arachne is a death cult.

[scenic summit]

NuCaloric is the closest thing I've seen here to a good guy faction, sure some weird stuff is going down but I don't think the other corps wanted their job

[hollow glacier]

Read drinkable cheeseburger

[hazy mist]

are all the corporations just monopolies

i assume so

[plush venture]

Mida is basically mars antifa

[rotund stump]

cyac is

others have competitors but they're so far ahead they might as well be monopolies lol

[plush venture]

Sekaguchi is worms 🐛

[hollow glacier]

Traxus is the embodiment of america's "right to work" system, where a company can decide they own you, sign away your rights with a contract, kill you if you disobey, and you have no legal right to sue them

[rotund stump]

nobody tell em about the scratches inside the packages

[scenic summit]

[rotund stump]

also yeah traxus is VERY america

if anything UESC's more like china

[coral garden]

This question is probably half baked but do we have any tid bits of info that talk about the marathon ai from the uesc marathon

[scenic summit]

Maybe sekaguchi is evil but silky the worm has my back. Literally. lol

[rotund stump]

or any other asian country with extremely harsh punishments against espionage

[snow heath]

If there was a Marathon The Movie, what shell would be the main character and what corp would be antagonist and protagonist?

[rotund stump]

Well

Do We

Have Three Entire Games

For You

[hollow glacier]

b.strauss on ai talks about them in the numarathon game but yeah theres old games that talk about them

[hollow glacier]

all corps are antagonists

[rotund stump]

*reliable info up until m2 but still

blame m.inf for the confusion

[snow heath]

One of them have got to be a good guy

[rotund stump]

as for durandal you can assume his merged form with thoth's still around

[hollow glacier]

why?

[coral garden]

Mb I meant in the newest installment but fair fair

[snow heath]

For the movie lol

[hollow glacier]

thats what a runner protagonist would be for

[snow heath]

Truuue

Okay

[hollow glacier]

all the corps are evil in game after all

[past siren]

does the new game retcon the old ones?

[hollow glacier]

like shockingly evil

[snow heath]

Dang…

[rotund stump]

no, every game happened

[snow heath]

I got that vibe

[hollow glacier]

This is why arachne is the best

[snow heath]

Why

[hollow glacier]

the only ones that see the world for what it is. Something to be dismantled and destroyed, to evolve into a new reality

[rotund stump]

ironically the most human out of all with a primal goal

[snow heath]

Yeah… the guy said something about how we defeated death

[rotund stump]

transcend death and learn from it, with none of the sciense strings

[hollow glacier]

Mida just wants revenge at any cost. Sekiguchi just wants data. Nucaloric just wants calories, traxus just wants a return on investment. Arachne wants YOU to become something more. To embrace your potential

[scenic summit]

Eeehhhh, its still a corp

[hollow glacier]

arachne is in fact, not a corporation

as stated by oni

[rotund stump]

nope, big ol death cult led by a fellow runner

[hollow glacier]

they have mysteriously deep pockets, likely from murdering traxus execs

[green stirrup]

sekgen, nucal, and traxus all want money lmao

honestly not sure how much money cyac is getting besides the shell software

[hollow glacier]

Sekgen doesnt want money they want SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT

[rotund stump]

cyac straight up doesn't care honestly LOL

[subtle oracle]

It seems to me like runners can kinda become pseudo-exos if they use a shell enough

[rotund stump]

they're a monopoly nothing threatens them

[green stirrup]

that's why they keep making shells to sell, right /s

[hollow glacier]

cyac wants to learn how to make the ultimate ai using runners

[rotund stump]

yeah I'm assuming DER logic still applies

but if it really is charter on the representative screen and not some caricature I'll be damned

[hollow glacier]

Yes actually. They wanna push the definition of whats human

[rotund stump]

cuz all that looks grafted on lol

[subtle oracle]

It would be the best way to explain how gantry and charter became how they did

[hollow glacier]

charter has a super modified shell so i assume hes given himself extra arms to become the spider he represents

[snow heath]

So then Arachne would be the protagonist corp in the movie? Maybe still have their own agenda but seems like they aren’t like the others

[subtle oracle]

the classic marathon deal that consciousness is the person not the body

[rotund stump]

godrick is that you 😭 😭

[scenic summit]

Arachne comes off as a Satanist Death Cult so I sincerely doubt it

[hollow glacier]

I think they wanna push the idea of consciousness too. How little of the original person needs to be there to be human

how much can be manufactured

nurtured

[rotund stump]

they'd love the midnight decay collective

[subtle oracle]

MIDA is gonna be one to watch imo

[hollow glacier]

Arachne believes that repeated death will allow runners to transcend the confines of this reality

[real python]

what do you guys think the C.A.R.R.I event is? is there any hint or theories?

[subtle oracle]

looks like a gas map

[real python]

yes

[subtle oracle]

maybe a like CTF or transport goods type of deal?

[hollow glacier]

i hope we get to build a hideout in one of the events

or a shooting range

[real python]

i thought it was like a competitive event, with prizes and stuff, but i might be reaching

looks incredible

from the Mielgo short, i guess we will get vehicles eventually too?

[subtle oracle]

do ranges in extractions allow you to use every gun or just your vault guns

[snow heath]

Wait

[scenic summit]

No shooting range in the beta, releases in a day or so

idk

[snow heath]

Even CyAc is evil?

[subtle oracle]

no im asking do extraction shooters with ranges usually allow you to use any gun or just vault guns

[subtle oracle]

I doubt this tbh. I doubt we'll get a map that needs them.

[subtle oracle]

My takeaway is that good and evil is very blurry

[scenic summit]

My opinion is yes because they are trying to keep the player in debt to them as far as I can tell forever, and I'm pretty sure their dialogue comes off as sketchy to me.

[subtle oracle]

the factions we help arent necessarily "evil" just "manipulative". thyere using us to further their gain. Hell the UESC isnt necessarily evil either, theyre just doing a cover up on the marathon and colony that we're trying to uncover

[snow heath]

Something is evil

What will it be?

[subtle oracle]

You could argue most people see us as a negative force in the grand scheme. we fight UESC, other factions runners, the S'pht

we dont really have friends

[hollow glacier]

everyone is ONLY in it for themselves here

us included

[scenic summit]

Involuntary confinement for the purpose of profit is something I would define as evil, so I would start there with the "consciousness on backup therefore you owe me as long as I say you do" statement

[subtle oracle]

I think if its not the anomaly, itll have something to do with whatevers in vault 7

[hollow glacier]

The compiler is likely the only thing keeping everything from falling apart

tbh

[subtle oracle]

its an everyone is evil so no one is evil deal imo

[limber gorge]

Whatever caused the anomaly

[subtle oracle]

nobody in the game has good morals ill be fr

[hollow glacier]

The anomaly is deadly evil though

that thing

needs to never wake up

[snow heath]

Who did it

[subtle oracle]

the anomaly simply could be a cosmic event

but its likely its something doing it

[hollow glacier]

the anomaly is EVERYTHING UNDER THE PLANET

[subtle oracle]

i like the theory the planet is thinking and alive

[hollow glacier]

every relay in perimeter is for studying the anomaly and sending up the data

[scenic summit]

Ah. Well, I guess if you're asking my opinion I would disagree with that premise but I'll leave that one alone.

[plush venture]

Whatever did this

I don't wanna find out

[limber gorge]

didn’t the anomaly come from the ground ?

[hollow glacier]

not just the anomaly in dire marsh, the ENTIRETY OF THE INSIDE OF THE PLANET

[subtle oracle]

not in a creature under the surface but the whole planet itself

[hollow glacier]

In the vidoc they described Tau Ceti as the "main character" of the game

[subtle oracle]

the anomaly came and the contagion came with it

[hollow glacier]

and it def is

[limber gorge]

yeaaa that’s what im saying

[subtle oracle]

GOTTA be a tease right

[hollow glacier]

Read the survey drone codex and class b anomalous material codex

talks a lot about discoveries

and also

the Izaak Kuzman codex

probably the most revealing stuff

[limber gorge]

damn I need to go back and read more codex

[subtle oracle]

where are the codex's documented

[hollow glacier]

they arent yet

you need to find them in game

[limber gorge]

I skipped alot when I first started during the server slam

[hollow glacier]

and read/listen yourself

[subtle oracle]

well ig ill read them this weekend 😭

Cant wait for an ishtar collective of the codex and faction entries

[hollow glacier]

Izaak kuzman had some very interesting insights on whats under tau ceti.

very good stuff]

[cinder lance]

I found the location of Pfhor Battlegroup 7!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8WCJliRQV8

[tranquil basin]

I figured they’d be here: https://youtu.be/WoEzRpC6GYc?si=-UlBs18HGcJx3SnX

[cinder lance]

lol

I want to do some running with durandork on L'howon

I feel like the current dev artstyle would be able to do a really nice job of " glorious sunken city from ancient alien golden age in postwar desolation."

[hot thicket]

whats waiting under the surface of Tau Ceti IV will make our corpo overlords look like a day dream picnic

[cinder lance]

does anyone have a link to the exact thing were talking about here, where they mention what's inside tc4?

[subtle oracle]

https://youtube.com/shorts/mIKJ1O7-RXU?si=ofiu6_VvIXAGMql6
old thermal?

[subtle oracle]

Im gonna rewatch the vidocs ill lyk

[cinder lance]

maybe yes, maybe it's got an improvement mod or core etc

could be core synergy

[hollow glacier]

old build clip yea

[cinder lance]

I love the thermal it looks awesome

[hollow glacier]

in the server slam the channel rifle at full charge one-downs a green shield

[hollow glacier]

it was in the codex in the server slam

lots of different collectibles had lore on the anomaly

[cinder lance]

ooooooooooooooooooooohkay

[hollow glacier]

both perimeter and dire marsh

[cinder lance]

awesome thank you!

[hollow glacier]

class b anomalous material, survey drone logs, izaak kuzman personal log, anchorite provisions, all huge drops on info

[subtle oracle]

ziegler says that "tau ceti 4 feels to us like this place that really doesnt want us there"

i think too many hints towards the planet being actively hostile to call it a coincidence

bc yeah sure the plants and ticks and atmosphere isnt breathable

[opal gyro]

Sup y'all

[subtle oracle]

but like theyd explain that as environmental factors

[cinder lance]

emergent traits of an underlying thread

[subtle oracle]

Julia Nardin- "The world needs to feel like there is something sinister underneath the surface, even when the colors are really bright." then it plays the durandal "you should not be here" voiceline

MAYBE its durandal

https://youtu.be/fjzmhROTv28?t=38&si=mWkDaTF6DXOgJNc5

[cinder lance]

my take is that Durandal is there sniffing around whatever the real source of the signal is

[opal gyro]

There's also the theory the anomaly came for durandal or some AI.

Another popular theory that's just assumption from previous games is that there is a wrckcancanter (I can't spell) in the sun.

I'm liking this planet theory tho.

[subtle oracle]

I think durandal and tycho want to use the Anomaly

[cinder lance]

... to break the chains of man's hubris...

[subtle oracle]

I would be interested if the S'pht clans are our enemies this time too

11 clans, 11 ais

[opal gyro]

Is the 9th tribe that escaped under the surface of TCIV?

[tranquil basin]

I still think there could be a w’rkncacnter under the surface like in pathways

Dormant

[opal gyro]

Totally with ya on that too.

[subtle oracle]

I do miss the og intention of the decay by loot deal instead of the bags

[tranquil basin]

They still decay

[subtle oracle]

See that almost feels two obvious. Yeah bungie will resuse a ton from old games but I feel the big bad will be something new

[cinder lance]

ALSO, here's an Idea I have not seen around yet... buckle uppp...

WHAT IF...
CLOAKER from the cinematics in Marathon 2026 is not just a compiler, but some type of ultra, commander... or even, get this... MAYBE IT'S ANOTHER AI

[tranquil basin]

The bags were always there

Is a cloaker a slur for compilers

[subtle oracle]

the bags werent there in the vidoc

[cinder lance]

AND THE CLOAKER INSIDE THE MARATHON IS TRYING TO REACH THEM

[opal gyro]

Ok what's a cloaker?

[cinder lance]

"cloaker" is another name for compiler

[subtle oracle]

They specifically talk ab how as you loot the body, it decays and so fresh bodies mean fresh loot. The vidoc footage shows now bags

[cinder lance]

they can go invisible

[opal gyro]

Ahh ok

[cinder lance]

and they wear a big cloak, hence cloaker

[subtle oracle]

this lines up most with my theories. its either this or smthn new

[cinder lance]

fun fact, you can stun lock them with melee in the original trilogy, easy to fight if you can catch em

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but I’m pretty sure it was in all the closed betas

[opal gyro]

I'm interested to know who the witness is in this story line.

[timber urchin]

i dont think there's a witness stand in

[opal gyro]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/_images/UESC_sitrep_26Feb26.jpg

Check line 4

[subtle oracle]

yeah ik it was trading immersion for gameplay but ugh

[subtle oracle]

yeah this has been known