🗣marathon-general-chat

[cyan bridge]

You hate everything

[worn knoll]

TL;DR the TL;DR: Halo and Marathon are similar bc they are the same. Bungie always tells the same stories over and over again and it's goated bc they explore it from different angles and hide it from you. Marathon's plot is gonna be good because of this.

[kindred vigil]

I'm not that negative omgggg

[cyan bridge]

me when i lie

[stoic pivot]

name your 5 favorite things

[cyan bridge]

just a spoiler, its alice, alice, alice and alice. (and alice)

[kindred vigil]

neeyth neeyth neeyth neeyth neeyth

[stoic pivot]

wow

[worn knoll]

oh yeah and ...EXCELERAIDER

forgot the ...EXCELERAIDER for a moment there can't forget the ...EXCELERAIDER

[kindred vigil]

Those who fated hero loop end of marathon infinity

[bitter canopy]

If it's the intended experience and it succeeds I would say thats actually good design. Can you explain how you have more control in other matchmade games

[proven kernel]

Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens
Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens
Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things

[kindred vigil]

ur lying I'm not negative in here

My hate is hyperbolic cmon 🙄

[cyan bridge]

i like halo annnnd roblox i think

[stoic pivot]

Take CS2 for example. So long as I am alive, would you say there is a circumstance in which I cannot influence the outcome of the round/game, even if I'm in a poor situation?

[cyan bridge]

cs2🤤

[proven kernel]

I'm sure you can stretch that into 5 things.

[worn knoll]

I'd play cs2 if it wasn't 50gb for no reason

[kindred vigil]

I love bloat

[worn knoll]

big ass game for a small ass game

[cyan bridge]

what

[stoic pivot]

honestly

[kindred vigil]

Like, in video games

[cyan bridge]

i thought you liked inflation

[kindred vigil]

????

[worn knoll]

valorant has more content, is the same damn type of game, and it's half the size

[bitter canopy]

I would agree, how is this not the case in marathon by the same logic?

[scenic meteor]

I genuinely believe there is never a circumstance in the game where having zero influence is possible the ONLY circumstance is in a factual disadvantage Eg:player left the game making a 5v5 team game a 4v5 which is in most cases not winnable or in the event a player literally throws the game so you do not win which is completely unavoidable

and you never gave me any scenario that is unavoidable? random matchmaking is absolutely avoidable and even if you are supporting its a game design, the majority of players will help if possible. its literally the Junglers JOB to support the entire game and the game has pings communication is encouraged in league

[cyan bridge]

i aint reading allat

[stoic pivot]

what do you mean by that, I'm talking about MOBAs

[kindred vigil]

Alice scroll up just for like 10 seconds trust

[cyan bridge]

i dont feel like it

[kindred vigil]

Don't read anything just scroll

[worn knoll]

This is just a fundamental falsehood, if a game, a movie, a book, any media does what it set out to do, even if what it set out to do is something you don't like, it's well made.

[cyan bridge]

oh my god

[kindred vigil]

we've been doing paragraphs for I think half 2 hours

[worn knoll]

whu

[cyan bridge]

half life 2

[bitter canopy]

Is that all you were talking about? Lol I did jump in mid convo I bought this was about marathon in part

[kindred vigil]

mainly akori and scoob

[stoic pivot]

I'm not saying you can't have fun in the game, there's a reason MOBAs are popular. I'm saying they're poorly designed, as a result of a combination of factors inherent to their concept

[cyan bridge]

whos akori

[kindred vigil]

read Alice omg

[cyan bridge]

just tell me what it is

[scenic meteor]

but its not poorly designed in the slightest its designed as exactly its intended for

[kindred vigil]

it's right above you

[worn knoll]

A concept cannot be poorly designed if it achieves its function, just because you don't like the function.

[bitter canopy]

You still have not responded to what I said prior about achieving intended design

[kindred vigil]

damn akori ina 1v3 gg

[cyan bridge]

ive never seen this akori fellow in my whole life

[stoic pivot]

Ok, this isn't related to video gaming, but are you saying you would consider the RMBK Chernobyl reactor NOT a poor design?

[kindred vigil]

????

[bitter canopy]

Would you say team sports irl are poorly designed?

[stoic pivot]

because it achieved its function

[worn knoll]

We are discussing media, not engineering, these are different concepts

[kindred vigil]

y'all losing the mark wth

[cyan bridge]

which mark

[kindred vigil]

the flag please capture red Alice please were one point away

[bitter canopy]

Yes it failed it's intended function by allowing unsafe conditions and having a meltdown

[worn knoll]

Do not engage the derailment of the topic???

[kindred vigil]

please Alice please juggle the flag please please

[cyan bridge]

that one fallout quest

[worn knoll]

you cannot equate a nuclear reactor to a video game genre?

[kindred vigil]

what r u genuinely talking about

[cyan bridge]

questin' mark

[bitter canopy]

Flag dropped flag dropped flag dropped

[kindred vigil]

what flag fallout quest

[bitter canopy]

Tbf design is design

[cyan bridge]

i just said it are you stupid

[kindred vigil]

ih I thought u were memeing

[cyan bridge]

im a beast on halo ce ctf sink can confirm

[kindred vigil]

ok that's funny +1(the fallout joke)

[worn knoll]

engineering design and game design are not. the same thing. Writing a book and creating a machine do not have the same range of successful outcomes

[cyan bridge]

shut the fuck up

[scenic meteor]

media and engineering arent even in the same realm tho

[kindred vigil]

I give you ur first +1 in a while and I get told stfu

#opp

[worn knoll]

In fiction and media you are successful by achieving what you personally set out to do, in physical reality design is successful based on external evaluation. Mixing up the two is how we got into this situation in the first place.

[bitter canopy]

Im not saying they are (exactly) the same, but I am an engineer and all I'm saying is design is creation with the intent to reach a goal. Hence why you can use the same word

[cyan bridge]

its cuz i dont need fake joke points to be happy

otaku boy

[kindred vigil]

fake joke points

ok to far redirect that to another specific member of this server

i would unironically would prefer being called a sonic fanboy than a otaku

[cyan bridge]

BOIIIIII😂 🫱

[cyan bridge]

otaku

[kindred vigil]

angry emoji (I can't find it(

😠

[cyan bridge]

i hope you choke on a booger bro

[stoic pivot]

Fundamentally I don't think that just because something achieves its purpose means its a good design. I only chose the reactor thing cause it's the first thing that came to mind. If you're looking for media, then I'd ask you if a video game is well designed even if it is not well balanced? If you consider balance the key factor, then most games are not well designed. If it's JUST FUN that is the goal, then a well-designed game is subjective because whether or not something is well designed depends on whether you individually enjoyed it. I don't consider good design a result of achieving its function, because if I personally didn't enjoy it then it didn't achieve its function, for me at least. Which means you have to consider whether or not good design itself is objective or subjective, which I firmly believe is the former.

[cyan bridge]

😣

[kindred vigil]

to much paragraph tonight my head can't read

I despise reading !!!

[stoic pivot]

tldr; is good design a subjective or objective thing, I believe it is objective

[cyan bridge]

ive never wrote that much on discord like ever

[kindred vigil]

thanks

[worn knoll]

Neeyth, god bless you you're useless. There's one answer to this: we can renounce discussion of MOBAs forever. It's the right thing to do.

[cyan bridge]

i agree with the first line

[kindred vigil]

did I just get called useless 💔

[scenic meteor]

No one developer can adhere to every single persons enjoyment thats why they stick to the intended purpose people come to the game the whole reason genres exist

[cyan bridge]

"adhere" yeah bucko ur not fancy

[stoic pivot]

I'm going until either scooby says I'm right or leaves. I'm too petty for anything less

[scenic meteor]

but ur wrong

[bitter canopy]

I believe it is objective, because I can appreciate a game being designed well even if I don't personally enjoy it.

[cyan bridge]

and im.right

[worn knoll]

If the designers intended a game to be unbalanced, and it is, then the design is successful. But they don't usually. That is often the opposite of their goal. It is achieving what it sets out to do that measures success, not what you want it to do

[cyan bridge]

explain this in siege terms

[worn knoll]

if it was the latter, then this game and every other extraction game is poorly designed, because it's not PvE oriented enough for the people who scream about that kind of thing

[stoic pivot]

and it is because a developer can't make everyone happy that good design must be an objective thing, which means it cannot be a function of whether it achieves its intended purpose (ie. to have fun)

[worn knoll]

Ubisoft sucks bad, and that makes their games bad, but if they didn't suck bad, their games would be good.

[cyan bridge]

ohhhhhhh

https://tenor.com/view/ohhh-damn-bro-daamn-that-was-obvious-realising-gif-24880382

[kindred vigil]

I can only explain fortnite terms

[scenic meteor]

they CANNOT make everyone happy tho its literally impossible so they stick to the true design of the game just because you dont enjoy Mobas does not make it bad game design at all

[bitter canopy]

That's false, not everyone will be happy with a single design, name a game and I probably don't enjoy it

[cyan bridge]

ur useless neeytharoozle ur blob self cant even get out of bed

[kindred vigil]

I can't believe I spent 9$ on a for nite skin just to not play the game #what

[stoic pivot]

that was a typo I meant to say can't

[worn knoll]

Sorry you had to catch a stray I was referencing a knives out line and someone had to be addressed by name 😔

[stoic pivot]

didn't see that lol

[cyan bridge]

is that a scott pilgrim reference

[nova fiber]

An example of a great unbalanced game would be Returnal. Playing better makes the game easier, as health pickups give you a larger HP bar when at max. This makes for crazy snowball runs where you feel like you're on a wild adventure

[worn knoll]

No, alice. No it isn't.

[cyan bridge]

🙁

[kindred vigil]

Is Scott prigilin anime good

[cyan bridge]

imo no

dont thank me

good

[worn knoll]

Bingo. Whatever the developers intend is the measure for success. If it achieves its goals, it's a well made game. Is it a game you enjoy? Maybe not. But your preference cannot dictate what is good or bad, and any other measurement is entirely subjective, so we must allow the intended result to dictate the measure of quality.

[cyan bridge]

"bingo." partner you are NOT tuff

[worn knoll]

fuck is "tuff" about ...BINGO?

[kindred vigil]

I'm low-key waiting for someone to say some "anddd there it is...yikes!" Type line

[cyan bridge]

he made a statement so bad even the OPPS left?!

[worn knoll]

Fuckin' sorry next time I'll hit 'em with an "agreed"

[stoic pivot]

Anyways as I was saying, if design is a subjective quality then a developer can simply say everything they design is a success since they choose the measurement of success. Good design vs poor design should be an objective thing, one aspect of which I believe is giving players a bare minimum level of control over the outcome of a game (in the case of multiplayer games- story based games do not NEED to provide players control over the games ending). MOBAs fail to establish that bare minimum level of control since there are situations in which zero control is possible.

[scenic meteor]

the only way to make a objective game design is to make it in its intended purpose? fun is subjective to each individual person on earth

[worn knoll]

"affirmative" "indeed" "so it is"

[bitter canopy]

I mean I could probably come up with some

[cyan bridge]

"Fuckin' " PAL YOU ARE NOOOOT A COWBOY😂

[kindred vigil]

That's not authentic that's like wanting Chinese food but you got panda Express

[bitter canopy]

But even there you came up with subjective terms

[nova fiber]

It works really well on returnal.

I had one run where I barely beat the first boss, then went a wild 1 HP run all the way through the next two worlds.

One of the best gaming experiences I've ever had.

Meeting all kinds of new foes and bosses, but needing to avoid any damage from their new attacks.

Any map trap could kill me

Every loot spot could give me that tiny heal which takes off some pressure.

Returnal is also built for this, with world 2 having an insane and epic setting leading into the zenith of world 3

[bitter canopy]

Real

[cyan bridge]

you know about that a little too much fattie

[kindred vigil]

I love food

[worn knoll]

If design isn't measured by intent then it's measured by your personal preference. "Control" is a personal preference. Are walking simulators an inherently poorly designed genre? How could that possibly be objective?

[scenic meteor]

all of your arguements are subjective nothing you are mentioning is relating to the majority of the intended audience so this arguement isnt even fair

[worn knoll]

If a developer says "yeah, I intended to make this game terrible to play" and it's terrible to play, then they did a good job, but nobody's gonna play it. Success and quality need not be equated.

[cyan bridge]

thats true i think

[nova fiber]

Design is creating according to your goals.

Good design is having good goals and achieving them without dropping the fundamentals

@worn knoll

[cyan bridge]

i think she* saw the message bud

[stoic pivot]

This is precisely what I said - if the developer establishes what "good design" is then everything is good design. Success and quality are not equal, as you yourself claim, which means that success can still occur with poor quality.

[kindred vigil]

those who @

[scenic meteor]

and there is never a sitution where zero control is happening in a Moba unless someone is playing in bad faith or leaves the game which is a COMMUNITY issue not game design

[nova fiber]

Huh, then whyd some random respond?

[kindred vigil]

Got called a random #owned

[worn knoll]

Like cruelty squad is a hideous fucking game, that sounds bad and even plays bad sometimes, but it's fully by design and actually took a lot of effort to get there. So it's not bad. It doesn't fail.

[cyan bridge]

because im the goaaaat boii

[kindred vigil]

does anyone wanna play Roblox cod zombies

[worn knoll]

close one there

[nova fiber]

Caboose deserves better than being on your tag, he was damn hero, saved the universe from the flood

[scenic meteor]

we dont play roblox here thats for chuds

[cyan bridge]

what did u accomplish

[kindred vigil]

I recently spent 5$ on robux my little brother got me lost in the Roblox sauce lwk

[nova fiber]

In life?

[stoic pivot]

Success is achieving your goals, which can still come even if the design is poor.

[cyan bridge]

yeah

[kindred vigil]

SCOOBY It's fun there's this fun snipers only game

[cyan bridge]

play hypercam its like ready or not

[kindred vigil]

And this gun game where u like make ur own gun outta different gun it's lwk awesome

[worn knoll]

I don't think I can explain to you how that's not a bad thing, so I'll pretend you're right. So you personally should establish it?

[cyan bridge]

weird gun game?

[worn knoll]

Your decision that it's based on control is absolute?

[nova fiber]

I'm an emotional time bomb?

[kindred vigil]

yes I found it fun then realized the match is legit just bots

[bitter canopy]

Design is creating the thing to achieve your goals, therefore if it reaches your goals it is good design. Objectively

[cyan bridge]

i survived burkitt lymphoma but thats for another lore drop

[kindred vigil]

what

[nova fiber]

Or would it be designed well? And good design is a morality?

[stoic pivot]

No, but I would challenge you to find a game in which the player is given no control over the outcome of the game (again, story is different) that you would consider not only a successful game, but a well designed game.

[nova fiber]

Congratulations

[bitter canopy]

Is being designed well not good design?

[cyan bridge]

thanks man🫂

[nova fiber]

Google tells me that's tough shit. Do you always bring that up when youre in an argument?❤️

[kindred vigil]

I just googled buddy beat cancer I thnk

[cyan bridge]

not rlly...

[bitter canopy]

Tbh I don't know what you mean by good design is a morality?

[nova fiber]

I'm just fucking with you, you deserve to.

[cyan bridge]

marathon chat is so supportive, i love you guys.❤️

[worn knoll]

What remains of Edith Finch, Power Wash simulator, Mouthwashing was pretty good, Still wakes the deep I guess has fail states but you still really don't have much control, I found that to be good, etc.

And even if it was true that there's no game without any kind of player control that's successful, it has no bearing on the design and certainly isn't the absolute measure of it

[kindred vigil]

whenever we're not being jackasses yea

[stoic pivot]

hold up what do you mean by power wash simulator

[obsidian plover]

It’s a game

[kindred vigil]

akori can u lwk admit ur wrong oh my God I think it's about it pass 3 hours

[worn knoll]

Same outcome no matter what you do, nothing changes, just the order you clean things in.

[stoic pivot]

I don't know enough about the other games but isn't that just like you wash houses?

[nova fiber]

I had a buddy in high school who was like wheel chair bound, one foot in the grave, got like three diseases, awful.

That fucking bastard was the meanest piece of shit I nthe world. I loved him. I still love him after he passed.

I mean, fucks sake, he got a bad hand.

AND THAT BASTARD KNEW HE COULD SAY THE WORST MEANEST JOKES AND NO ONE IS GONNA HIT THE GUY IN THE WHEEL CHAIR

Like. FUCK. Having a shit time makes people so fucking funny as they cope.

[obsidian plover]

You never played that?? You wash all kinds of stuff

[worn knoll]

It's just holding left click and looking around, you control nothing, it's just a satisfying visual

and I say it's well fucking designed and damn well fun

[stoic pivot]

And also I guess I didn't specify this when I asked him to find a game but I mentioned earlier that the control bit was for multiplayer games

[bitter canopy]

How about pong? There is no real win condition you always lose

[stoic pivot]

which I should have mentioned again mb

[scenic meteor]

your personal opinion might be Mobas are badly designed but with league being one of the most played games on a monthly basis the overall consensus is that it does its job and is an entertaining game

[kindred vigil]

The win condition is that I put my ball to the other side

[bitter canopy]

Most Atari games are like that

[kindred vigil]

How did old heads find bouncing balls fun genuinely

Popping 25C to play pong lwk crazy

[cyan bridge]

I have a buddy that has Duchene, i dont really know how to spell it. He's been my best friend since i was a child, and he always has some pretty lewd jokes that always makes me laugh. it really haunts me knowing he won't live for much longer, i sometimes even cry about it. He has played such a big part in my life and i just realized that recently lol (oh my god my English is terrible)

[nova fiber]

There was nothing else to do, it was that or chill with the kids burning bug alive

[bitter canopy]

Fair enough maybe not the best example but my point stands (roughly) most Atari 2600 games are endless runner style session games

[kindred vigil]

like you gotta think about it those old ass Atari games were somehow fun enough to give us a mario

[worn knoll]

Oh, well then cod black ops 6 casual matches. I hate it, personally, but it is well designed, as the main function of the matchmaking is to put you in rigged matches that let you win the exact amount of times the algorithm thinks will make you keep playing. That's intentional, that's the intended outcome, and it does that greatly. No control over jack shit.

[kindred vigil]

thanks for Mario at least

[worn knoll]

If it failed to do that, the COD games would be dead by now

[cyan bridge]

whats a mario🤔

[kindred vigil]

Do you know like when you stomp a goomba

[cyan bridge]

goombas look like little turds

[bitter canopy]

I've been playing them with my dad lately lots of them are actually pretty fun

[cyan bridge]

not in this chat neeyth brotato

[bitter canopy]

Similar loops to extractions

[nova fiber]

I think my bud had DMD, idk he looked like Steven Hawking.

Hangout with him. I'm kinda glad my bud passed when I was younger and didn't travel.

Also you nearly got it, its spelled like that but with a second 'n', Duchen-n-e

[kindred vigil]

w gaming sessions

[nova fiber]

Your English is fucking fine

[kindred vigil]

Some old games r fun but sometimes I GENUINELY wonder how did people before my generation of games found these fun 😭 like it's so like, simple

[cyan bridge]

you have no idea how funny that stephen hawkin part is at midnight bro

[worn knoll]

Honestly, @stoic pivot , look, it feels like you don't like the idea of design quality not being measurable like a physical property, so you've made up one in your head. And that's nice, that's how you can measure the quality of games for yourself, but that's just not how the world works, and we can't just all decide on an aspect that determines "good design" across genres and intended design functions.

[nova fiber]

Just say "fuck" in a nice and non-aggressive way, the rest of English will follow

[bitter canopy]

The next generation will think of our games the same

[kindred vigil]

...🥀

[stoic pivot]

In theory though you can win those rigged matches, they're only rigged in the sense that the players on the other team are better than you. You have the minimum necessary for control, since you're working with the same base character stats and controls that the other guys are, but not the same skill. However even with worse skill, it's possible for you to overperform, or for them to underperform. And also, if this is about matchmaking, I mentioned that as one of the reasons that led to no control in MOBAs, though this is a different case of matchmaking actively sabotaging you.

[kindred vigil]

I already hear kids saying ps4 games are unimpressive

[nova fiber]

I mean, he did. I l know it's not cool to say that but the son of a bitch looked like Stephen Hawking.

[cyan bridge]

❤️‍🩹

[cyan bridge]

its ok sometimes i call neeyth special.

[kindred vigil]

ok what the stray

[worn knoll]

you're catching bullets like an american primary school student

[cyan bridge]

ok bro too farrr

[nova fiber]

We're on a video game chat room at midnight, I like to say God gave me an extra portion of the special sauce

[bitter canopy]

Nah that's real shit

[scenic meteor]

not wrong tho

[kindred vigil]

🥀💔

[cyan bridge]

fuck is a special sauce twintata😂 😂

[scenic meteor]

its 12 make a wish

[cyan bridge]

make me

[kindred vigil]

It's 1 bro

[stoic pivot]

Ok straight up would you genuinely say that there is no such thing under any circumstances as media of any kind that is of poor design EVEN IF it achieves its goal? Because meeting goals being the core attribute of good design is such a ridiculous idea I don't even know how to address it atp

[scenic meteor]

yea in delulu land

[kindred vigil]

I make wishes at 1:11

[cyan bridge]

youre weird

[kindred vigil]

HOP off est 😠

[nova fiber]

Hahaha. In English, people often say that their family recipes or restaurant's best dishes are made with "special sauce" to hide what makes it good.

Special for people, well, you know what that means

[worn knoll]

Point me to one. Point me to a piece of media, that does exactly what it set out to do, but is somehow bad at doing what it set out to do

[stoic pivot]

Like I work in fields where meeting goals and good design are very explicitly separate things

[worn knoll]

Your field isn't art then

[scenic meteor]

what is your definition of game design gang cause its seems so wrong

[cyan bridge]

im self-taught, lowk think i need to go to some sort of english school🤔

[worn knoll]

good design must be determined on a case-by-case basis, there are no absolute qualities that can be applied to it

[bitter canopy]

Can you explain

[kindred vigil]

what is genuinely the argument trying to be made anymore ts changing every 30 messages

[scenic meteor]

Game design to me is just the fundamental aspects of the genre being true to its intended creation

[cyan bridge]

which fortnite character is the baddest

[nova fiber]

I recommend it, English is really wacky sometimes.

Theres a lot of great schools for it all over.

I've had to learn languages for work, mostly the trick is to practice saying it WITH SOMEONE OUTLOUD and genuinely try often.

[kindred vigil]

Jonsey

[worn knoll]

Akori thinks "good design" in art can be qualified by a blanket trait (in this case, "player control") and we think no, it's way more complex than that and different for every idea

[stoic pivot]

software development

[kindred vigil]

I see 🧠

[cyan bridge]

speaking of languages, how many do you have to know to be considered a polygot🤔

[worn knoll]

yes see software design is a whole different ballpark that's not. you can't apply those principles to other stuff.

[kindred vigil]

5

[worn knoll]

these fields have different functions, different definitions, different evaluations

[cyan bridge]

the good ol times of pissing in ballpits

[scenic meteor]

2 many for you 2 learn lil pup

[worn knoll]

scientists aren't art critics even though they can measure other traits just fine

[nova fiber]

Polygot is typically considered when speaking 5 at a high level. I've seen people count fractions of multiple languages to it

[cyan bridge]

i know three little BOY dont talk to me

[kindred vigil]

just learn Spanish, Portuguese, English, French, Italian and done

[nova fiber]

I am technically a polygot and a polymath. In college I was also... A different poly... But that's neither here nor there.

[scenic meteor]

pig latin isnt an official language 🙄

[bitter canopy]

If a piece of software reaches its deliverables i would say that it's design is good. It doesn't mean it best practices, or the most efficient

[cyan bridge]

annnnd im polyester boii

[nova fiber]

HELL YEAJ

[cyan bridge]

your mom is a pig dont talk to me

[kindred vigil]

Being bilingual sounds hard asf idk how I can have dual language in my head

[stoic pivot]

I genuinely think you can, I don't think design and goals are the same thing, meeting goals simply means you've achieved what you set out to do, but it's still possible to have done that thing in a poor way. If you can set your own measurements for good design then everything's screwed

[worn knoll]

someone who can measure an earthquake just by feeling it is gonna have a very strange answer if you ask them how "strong" the themes of a novel are. "this is a 0 there's no rumbling at all"

[cyan bridge]

i can gg ez

[nova fiber]

We all have polycarbons in our blood, don't worry about it too much

[kindred vigil]

🙄

[cyan bridge]

my blood is made out of roblox

[kindred vigil]

life is Roblox 🤫

[worn knoll]

Yeah see this applies perfectly to software design, not to art

[stoic pivot]

also this is hilarious to me

[cyan bridge]

you can tell neeyth thinks he matters

[kindred vigil]

my bad

[nova fiber]

More Lego than roblox, but sure.

[cyan bridge]

youre bad alright

[worn knoll]

You can try, but it's not. How that works. It's like a religious from birth absolute christian trying to discuss morality in philosophy, they'll keep applying the objective measures from their unrelated field to the subjective topics of the current conversation

[cyan bridge]

speaking of roblox👀👀👀👀👀👀i have 14 days playtime on forsaken👀👀👀👀👀👀

[kindred vigil]

That's not good bro

[worn knoll]

"Well, in this situation that can be right because-" "No no no, that's not how it works, the bible says..." these are fundamentally different topics just becuase you can look at them from the same angle doesn't mean it's at all helpful to

[stoic pivot]

Ok if a MOBAs goal is to get people to have fun, but their design instead brings people back via frustration/lack of fulfillment/sunk-cost fallacy/some other psychological phenomenon is it really ok to judge it by the fact that people are coming back even if some of them are explicitly not having fun

[cyan bridge]

atleast it requires more brainpower than just sitting your FAT ASS on your gaming chair and consuming anime slop OTAKU

[scenic meteor]

does Alice play any good games?

[cyan bridge]

i can name some

[kindred vigil]

I play FTL

[stoic pivot]

what is ftl

[mystic gazelle]

faster than loght

[scenic meteor]

a roguelike game Neeyth knows peak fr

[stoic pivot]

loght

[nova fiber]

It's successful, but not meeting it's goals. It's successful design, not great design. For some that is good enough, so their owners would call it good design.

[mystic gazelle]

it's fire

[cyan bridge]

don't diss my casca de bala bro hop tf off

[worn knoll]

That's too broad a statement of goals, but yes that fails and it should be interrogated with more detail as to why. you can't just apply an objective measurement to try and justify it, you need to go into the details on the specific game

[bitter canopy]

Do tell, because I haven't seen you disprove what I'm saying just ignore or laugh at it

[kindred vigil]

a game Scooby gave me I was fake raging on VC but it's lowkey interesting

I'm actually gonna #play that thanks scoob

[worn knoll]

If the goal is just to keep people playing, fun is an afterthought, then it's doing its job just fine. Its job is just bad and unpleasant.

[mystic gazelle]

eu e bala de casca

[cyan bridge]

play garten of banban its FIREEEE trust🤥

[scenic meteor]

its an old classic its got aura amongst the Uncs

[kindred vigil]

I unfortunately watched multiple gaming lets plays of that

It's so SHIT 💔

[cyan bridge]

guys give me honest switchblade recommendations

[mystic gazelle]

u just don't get it bru

[kindred vigil]

I don't know my switches

[mystic gazelle]

neeyth can uchange ur pfp

[cyan bridge]

ive heard the buck 110 was a good pick

[kindred vigil]

why

[worn knoll]

A piece of art designed to make you uncomfortable isn't bad when you don't like it and you can't then make up an objective "pleasantness scale" by which to measure all art by. This is functionally what you're trying to do with the "control" value for design quality. You can not like how they're designed because you think a game should be fun, not simply addictive, but you can't say it's bad design because it's doing what it set out to do.

[scenic meteor]

ask @maiden token he lives in London

[nova fiber]

Well, sometimes people have broad goals and need to design to achieve them. They should narrow down, I agree.

[stoic pivot]

It's really not that complicated, most code needs to be updated and maintained, even if you're not actively making new features or changing things. If you go about things in really unsafe, roundabout way that achieves your goal, but makes things much harder for you later on, I consider that poor design. Which is really like 98% of software. Spaghetti code, basically

[mystic gazelle]

please neiith

[kindred vigil]

ok I'll change it

[worn knoll]

Yes I guarantee no game has ever had the overall internal goal of "make it fun :)" and nothing else

[stoic pivot]

also runtime matters, didn't talk about that a lot

[mystic gazelle]

danke

[cyan bridge]

cant we match as rvb characters plsss

[nova fiber]

You guys are mostly saying the same thing at this point. It's the semantics between good as in quality and good as in good enough or as in successful that's throwing yall around

[kindred vigil]

okay who do u want me to 🐝

[cyan bridge]

church

[mystic gazelle]

this is useless cuz hell change after an hour

[cyan bridge]

"hell"

[mystic gazelle]

TYPE IS HARD

[nova fiber]

No fucking way.

College students make games.

People have side projects.

Hobbyists.

Kids in coding summer camps.

[scenic meteor]

actually theres this game called cookie clicker its only goal is fun

[stoic pivot]

I'm sure some guy on a laptop in college has at some point

[cyan bridge]

brazillian SCUM

[mystic gazelle]

I'm awake for 19 hrs

[nova fiber]

And world domination, but that's neither here nor there

[kindred vigil]

Type is hard

[cyan bridge]

put that jager black ice in my ###

[mystic gazelle]

wat

wtf

[cyan bridge]

"i could probably ever fit a cheeto up there" - jynzxi

[mystic gazelle]

in ur wat

[glad fern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1425693481409445888/1459361196028330129/cat.gif

[bitter canopy]

Im very aware of how software development works. If your goal is software maintainability, and performant runtime on a choice of specs then great that is the bar for good design. If you are making a throwaway prototype or writing non critical infra, then boom there is your bar! Not that hard to understand

[mystic gazelle]

tf is a hashtag

[worn knoll]

@nova fiber
And those games have...gameplay, no? Then they have more goals than "fun!!"
@scenic meteor
Oh, so it has no design based around accumulating value in order to reach goals in a satisfying way, it's just some ambient..."fun."
@stoic pivot
And we'll never see it, because it was just a dot spinning around with a smiley face that you could move around the screan

[scenic meteor]

the exception isnt the rule tho majority of games need direction not just be fun

[kindred vigil]

did you reply to 3 ppl in one msg

[glad fern]

Marton is fun

[cyan bridge]

this link is an ip grabber. do not click it

[bitter canopy]

Yeah one mag

[kindred vigil]

That's kinda beast mode icl

[worn knoll]

They all replied to me one after the other I'm not waiting 10 seconds to reply to each of them

[glad fern]

click it

[mystic gazelle]

bro one shot discord replies

[cyan bridge]

my chubby lil sausage fingers cant click on it

[bitter canopy]

Mag dump

[stoic pivot]

your original message was "if it meets its deliverables" and a lot of code will just end up being shipped like that, which I hate, but sometimes you just gotta ship it in a poor state and react to feedback

[scenic meteor]

lowkey Neeyth blitzbat reminds of the gaming version of Liaison i think im in awe right now

[glad fern]

Marton tomorrow you all

[kindred vigil]

I kinda see it

[worn knoll]

You, too, are trying to equate unrelated measurements of unrelated processes in order to somehow make art and software function the same way, which is just as bad as when Akori does it

[cyan bridge]

neeyth probably has some good anime recommendations

[bitter canopy]

Fair, I did not mean to say deliverables, you could say my message was poorly desinged

[kindred vigil]

not really I don't watch that much

[scenic meteor]

you guys need facts not just your personal opinion 😠

[cyan bridge]

wait ur pfp is church i just noticed OMGGGGNEYRH ILYILTILYILY

[worn knoll]

what does this mean

[glad fern]

too late for that, were on the internet.

[kindred vigil]

it took u like 3 mins to realize 🥀

[scenic meteor]

it means your a legend and i lowkey gotta crush

[stoic pivot]

neeyth watches anime?

[worn knoll]

HA

[cyan bridge]

no he doesnt ❤️‍🩹

[stoic pivot]

he doest?

[worn knoll]

doest

[nova fiber]

Gameplay elements can be under the umbrella of trying to make a fun game. Especially in the hands of crude designers who aren't consciously establishing sub goals.

I think you're being overly literal.

I mean generally, there are so many people who just want people to have fun playign their game, not focused on retention or on money or whatever.

I mean, Im 100% sure the games my buddy Zane made after college were just to be fun. I'm sure I can find developers who say this.

[kindred vigil]

Not much but like a few

[cyan bridge]

neeyth is a big tung tung tung sahur warrior

[kindred vigil]

It's very easy for me to larp like I do cuz passing knowledge from others but in terms of watching I don't think I've watched that much

[worn knoll]

But those elements are goals. It's all case-by-case, there's more than just one overall design because nothing can be one overall design. Yes, the "goal" as stated can be "to be fun" but for design to exist, there must be other goals with the intent of meeting that overall goal.

[mystic gazelle]

I agree

[worn knoll]

A game thats only stated goal is "to be fun" and they never ever ever ever have another objective in mind will never even reach playability

[cyan bridge]

ur not my casca de bala anymore bro u dont have the rvb profile picture

[bitter canopy]

Design is no different across fields I'm a mechanical engineer as well as a game devnin my free time, I am making the point that design is about shaping something to reach its end goals

[worn knoll]

the fuck it isn't

[cyan bridge]

dry as shit

[stoic pivot]

uh

[worn knoll]

You can approach them the same way, but you cannot objectively qualify them the same way

[kindred vigil]

Now my Pinterest has halo in it 🙄

[worn knoll]

No one's trying to police thinking here, but if you review overwatch 2 the way you'd review an architectural plan it's not gonna make a lot of people happy

[nova fiber]

Sure, but a crude or elementary designer may be grabbing things from other games "oh yeah that's fun, let's do that"

Not all games have build up to fun. Some just drink from the fire hose.

They may not be especially GOOD games, but they are games.

[cyan bridge]

its good

[stoic pivot]

I don't think overwatch 2 makes a lot of people happy in general

[worn knoll]

trvthnuke

[cyan bridge]

truke

[nova fiber]

Tke

[stoic pivot]

t

[bitter canopy]

And I say it is, the tools are different, but if I intend for a mechanic to perform a function, and it does - it's designed well. If I architect an encounter in my game to be challenging, and it is - good design

[mystic gazelle]

truk

[kindred vigil]

those who tell the truth

[cyan bridge]

burps loudly and relieves my gasses in neeyths face

[scenic meteor]

this whole argument started cause i wanted to defend league 🥀

[mystic gazelle]

nobody

[kindred vigil]

another 7 day mute inc

[worn knoll]

Well I agree but the statements are too broad and can't be universally applied outside of this scenario

[stoic pivot]

aren't you supposed to be retired from league

[cyan bridge]

nah im good probably if a mod is nice enough right mods plsss its a joke

[scenic meteor]

i am but its characters and gameplay bring me back all the time i have a moba addiction and only league can satiate it

[cyan bridge]

scoobs secretly a league dev

[kindred vigil]

he'd be rich

[worn knoll]

You can't say that a bomb is well designed just because it blows up, even though it has no defusal peramiters or method of not blowing yourself up or even a fuze, it's non-functional as anything, but if the stated goal was just to make something that blows up, is that good design? No, because it's a real physical object that has external requirements for good design, unlike a piece of art

[cyan bridge]

and smart

[stoic pivot]

I don't think riot devs make that much considering they have to live in LA or wherever the Riot office is

[scenic meteor]

true

[kindred vigil]

oh God he'd be stuck in LA

[stoic pivot]

no wonder he's going insane

[kindred vigil]

ur insane ur in pain

[worn knoll]

Like I said we really ought to have ditched this conversation quite a while ago this isn't going to get anywhere and we're all losing each other's plots

[nova fiber]

Idk how you guys got to bombs

[scenic meteor]

i would live in La for riot tho omg 🤤 just dont put me on the valorant team

[stoic pivot]

only one of those two is true

[kindred vigil]

Why not the valorant team specifically

[nova fiber]

Hahaha

[scenic meteor]

cause i would sabotage the game i hate it

[stoic pivot]

why

[kindred vigil]

W mans

[scenic meteor]

just not particularly fond of shooters its not my thing

[stoic pivot]

you're in the Marathon discord

[nova fiber]

... Uh

.. Why are you here?

[inland hatch]

skill issue

[kindred vigil]

he played finals with me and killing floor #liar

[scenic meteor]

I still play them just not competitively like valorants main focus is

[nova fiber]

You can play and not be fond

[inland hatch]

remember when they invited me to finals but not voice chat

[stoic pivot]

oh no scooby has dementia he can't remember that he likes shooters 💔

[kindred vigil]

true I'm not too fond of br but I play them with ppl (but I like fortnite tho...(

[scenic meteor]

me and tetra were busy singing to eachother

[bitter canopy]

I'll agree to end there because we can all go on forever with our viewpoints on design without a common grounding. No hard feelings, it was a good ass conversation

[nova fiber]

That's fair, but if rephrase as that and less "I don't like shooters"

[inland hatch]

this makes it hurt even more.

[nova fiber]

That's so cute. I support this.

[kindred vigil]

I couldn't be there to hear it #tragic

[stoic pivot]

so sad

[scenic meteor]

he was singing me katseye gnarly song specifically

[mystic gazelle]

waow

[kindred vigil]

Idk what that is but awesome

[mystic gazelle]

figure it out

it's a song bri

[scenic meteor]

hottie hottie like a bag of takis im the shit

[kindred vigil]

I never heard this song in my lyfe

[scenic meteor]

really?

[kindred vigil]

let me take a #listen

[worn knoll]

oh yo another nitro user with a proper themed profile

I stg I feel like the only one who uses nitro profile customization to the fullest

[mystic gazelle]

I try

[mystic gazelle]

same lol

[scenic meteor]

am i not a properly themed nitro user

[inland hatch]

how did u get the marathon yellow glitchy stuff

[kindred vigil]

This song SUCKS omg ✌️😂

[mystic gazelle]

do u like anytung

[worn knoll]

old old quest

from april. discord quest. free.

[kindred vigil]

not really

[stoic pivot]

would you like to

[kindred vigil]

maybe

[scenic meteor]

neeyth stay lying he likes alot of stuff he just dont try it

[mystic gazelle]

do u like me

[stoic pivot]

that settles it you're going to New Zealand

[worn knoll]

oh profile talk reminds me I'm gonna be doing versions of my icon for every faction, who should I do next

[kindred vigil]

pending 🤖....

[worn knoll]

seki was my go to bc I used to be marketing director over there but I'll take votes

[mystic gazelle]

cyberac

[stoic pivot]

NuCal FOR THE CAT

[worn knoll]

That sounds fun, if a little easy

[kindred vigil]

ur ruining my hater aura 🙄

[scenic meteor]

arachne

[mystic gazelle]

chaygptahh

[worn knoll]

arachne I'm saving for last, I'm gonna need to de-rust my blender beginner knowledge for it, I want to replace the bat with a 3d spinning marble bat gargoyle over a stark red background with the Arachne logo and iconography and stuff

[cyan bridge]

chapt

[kindred vigil]

I'm sorry I couldn't fulfill that request. Could you retype what you're trying to say by "chaygptahh"?

[mystic gazelle]

type is gard

[kindred vigil]

Those who just can't type 💀

[stoic pivot]

Neeyth is broken someone reset him

[kindred vigil]

losing wifi again did this

[stoic pivot]

will losing wifi again fix it

[kindred vigil]

no

[mystic gazelle]

fdum AI can't typpong for shyt

[worn knoll]

CyAc I'll probably just have like a more geometric version of my normal bat icon filled in with green 1s and 0s over a black background, and the name in some source cod-y font. Cyac terminal banner on the bottom probably, though it won't be visible as a profile picture

[kindred vigil]

least dedicated cyberacme user

[mystic gazelle]

neeth why u ai

[kindred vigil]

I run on Claude

[mystic gazelle]

who tf is cauld

[stoic pivot]

oh god he's devolving

[cyan bridge]

i run on Alice

[mystic gazelle]

alc

[kindred vigil]

are you like a windows copy

[cyan bridge]

im an Alice

[stoic pivot]

💀

[worn knoll]

Seki no clue, maybe do it up like an ad for the FIDO program but with a bat?

[scenic meteor]

where did the bat come from are u batman fan or is zubat ur favorite pokemon

[kindred vigil]

You won't ever be templeOS

[cyan bridge]

i run on AliceOS

[mystic gazelle]

bro a PC 💀💀😭

[stoic pivot]

this would be a lot of work but you could have the worms actively making it

[worn knoll]

BlitzB@t was a netrunner character I made for a cyberpunk 2020 campaign that got canceled after session 1 and I was like damn I liked that name so I decided to make it my username everywhere

[kindred vigil]

bro a personal computing device for miscellaneous actions and various things of its capabilities 💀

[forest laurel]

is Bungie HQ still shutting down in March?

[kindred vigil]

no not yet

[cyan bridge]

i can produce infinite copies of Death Stranding 2

[worn knoll]

That's what I was thinking but like damn that might be MORE high effort than the arachne one and I wanted that to be the furthest I went. I'm no artist gang 😭

[mystic gazelle]

we gotta make our hyper company

[stoic pivot]

why did you change it to HQ what difference does this make to the statement 💀

[kindred vigil]

I hope it doesn't become a lethal company 😨

[stoic pivot]

please no

[cyan bridge]

human test subjects are now turning into sludge

[kindred vigil]

dude what even happened to that game that shi fell off the map

[mystic gazelle]

friend SLOP

[forest laurel]

the HQ didn’t renew the lease for the building, were Bungie the company isn’t exactly a building

[worn knoll]

successors came, streamers moved on, but last update was in october it's not dead dead

[stoic pivot]

well it's one of those games you play with friends for a few weeks, maybe months, but then after that it's like you start getting deja vu from being in silly situations too much so you stop

[cyan bridge]

8

[kindred vigil]

they moved on to r.e.p.o what's the next game after repo

[scenic meteor]

rv there yet

[worn knoll]

peak

[kindred vigil]

And what's after rv there yet and peak

[cyan bridge]

me?

[forest laurel]

Bungie can work from home, let be honest

[scenic meteor]

to be made

[worn knoll]

which actually has a goal beyond keep going so it draws more people

[kindred vigil]

That schedule 1 game lasted like a month too

[cyan bridge]

will franklin eventually show up to defend his home?

[kindred vigil]

I find it interesting (some) indie games have like 1-3 months grace period before not being talked abt

[scenic meteor]

i actually wanted to play peak but all my friends were burnt out of the friendslop releases

[worn knoll]

you're the most brainrotted person here and even you're kinda low key about it, which gives me hope for the future of this game. the arc raiders discord is not so sparse with the brainrot

[worn knoll]

I mean that's a singleplayer game with a side of co-op so it doesn't rly need like constant focus

[stoic pivot]

well indie games typically don't have the ability to make enough content to keep people coming back for longer than that

[worn knoll]

OH WAIT WE ALL FORGOT CONTENT WARNING. THAT GAME WAS FUCKING PEAK. I wish I still had some of my clips saved

[kindred vigil]

so I CANT get infinite battle passes? 😓

[scenic meteor]

content warning was pretty funny

[cyan bridge]

imo arc raiders is kinda shit

[stoic pivot]

I didn't forget about it, I just never heard of it wtf is that 💀

[mystic gazelle]

I want all games to have battle pas

[kindred vigil]

And limited time cosmetics

[mystic gazelle]

I looooooove battle pess

[worn knoll]

I bet you do think that.

[worn knoll]

Man I adore fomo!

[stoic pivot]

cyberteto spell "pass" correctly challenge impossible

[kindred vigil]

we doing a tattletail playthrough hop through Scooby

[worn knoll]

and other things no one has ever said before

[scenic meteor]

wat is that

[kindred vigil]

oh my fod

[cyan bridge]

😕

[stoic pivot]

I'm sure we could come up with many, many unique sentences

[kindred vigil]

were u not fixated with horror games back then scooby

[scenic meteor]

neeyth im Unc you gotta speak boomer to me

[mystic gazelle]

the heck a fod

[kindred vigil]

Like the fnaf, hello neighbor, bendy, type shi

[cyan bridge]

its coming

[scenic meteor]

the only game i recognize here is fnaf

[kindred vigil]

ok do you know what a furby toy is

[cyan bridge]

i do!!

[scenic meteor]

the owls with eyes yea

[stoic pivot]

it's a chicken

[cyan bridge]

like a
meowl
heh

[kindred vigil]

It a horror game about that and you have to like keep track of all of them, because they talk to you and shit, and I think u have to keep them engaged? To not kill u

U have to like give it back to the mother furby or else she low-key degloves u

[worn knoll]

Skorm grummed those chisel-freaks 'fore thume first casing spun globe-side. And I? Wasn't surprised.

[stoic pivot]

you could have told me this was fnaf minus the talking part and I'd believe you

[cyan bridge]

at first i thought you were speaking swedish

[scenic meteor]

does it look somewhat good or is it put together quick slop

[kindred vigil]

It's a 3d walking around game tho

[worn knoll]

no just bad cyberpunk slang

[kindred vigil]

it's not slop it's put together and made with passion

[cyan bridge]

its called real life

[kindred vigil]

Ok Scooby you GOTTA know 123 slaughter me street

[mystic gazelle]

real life is 4d

[scenic meteor]

i dont

[stoic pivot]

The air fryer leaped joyously around the bloody snow-globe

[kindred vigil]

...

I think we had different fixations as a kid

[scenic meteor]

i was never big on the horror genre i didnt wanna give myself nightmares

[stoic pivot]

Neeyth as a kid sounds weird

[kindred vigil]

mf mustard and Scooby acted all confused when I mentioned smash the computer like we all don't know that flash game wtf

[worn knoll]

It's 2016 horror indie games had to try then fnaf hadn't fnafed everything else just yet

[cyan bridge]

who do you think you are

[worn knoll]

It wasn't good but

[kindred vigil]

I am

[worn knoll]

It had effort and it cared and it was kinda fun

[scenic meteor]

i thought it was something recent cause neeyth is a younger fella

[stoic pivot]

Ok its 2 AM I'm gonna go sleep

[cyan bridge]

loser

[kindred vigil]

dude

[stoic pivot]

I have obligations unforunately

[cyan bridge]

its 3:47 and i have so much energy

[worn knoll]

you're a retired league player you're either a zoomer or you haven't left your room in 30,000 years

[kindred vigil]

unique timezone

[cyan bridge]

youre unique

[mystic gazelle]

not true I got it too

[cyan bridge]

see bro

[kindred vigil]

those who are br

[scenic meteor]

its more likely than you think im notorius for only leaving my room for work

[kindred vigil]

Battle Royale...🧠

[cyan bridge]

neeyth is too special he cant grasp the concept of other countries that arent USA

[worn knoll]

jesus fucking christ teattletail will be 10 years ago soon

what the fuck what the actual fuck what the hellfuckshit

[kindred vigil]

I only know USA and East Asia and East Europe

and the Middle East

[cyan bridge]

what is it with you and the asians neeyth

[kindred vigil]

ask SINK that not me

I on the other hand acknowledge every continent 🙄

[worn knoll]

we just watched neeyth be grabbed by the CIA and replaced

[proven kernel]

Wait, is Neeyth going to be a Spartan II?

[scenic meteor]

Mishaya go to sleep its to late for you

[kindred vigil]

syas u scooby

[proven kernel]

It's saturday and I'm in an old bed at my parent's house. Sleep will not come easily.

[kindred vigil]

Scooby why are u genuinely awake till 4 when u work at 6

[scenic meteor]

dont worry we can put you to sleep fast with our boring topics

[scenic meteor]

cause i have attachment issues

[kindred vigil]

dude genuinely likes suffering at work

Dude I didn't sleep till 7am yesterday. Oh my God never again

[proven kernel]

youngin's

[worn knoll]

Y'all today i fell asleep at 11am bc I had nothing going on

[kindred vigil]

That's good

[worn knoll]

I woke up like a handful of hours ago

[kindred vigil]

A handful is 5...🧠

[worn knoll]

Do not calculate my time zone or my snipers will get you

[scenic meteor]

gonna be up all night gg sleep schedule is cooked

[worn knoll]

yeah idk what I'm gonna do on monday it's gonna be fun it's fine I have a bunch of Alani Nu stocked up

[kindred vigil]

No ghost energy tf

[scenic meteor]

or monster energy wtf

[fast lily]

we love our runners

[worn knoll]

Alani is more flavorful and the cans are so nice looking

[kindred vigil]

Thank u john

[scenic meteor]

throw us a curveball and say you drink gfuel 🙄

[kindred vigil]

LOWLEY canned gfuel doesn't taste that bad

But they never have it, it's usually in dollar trees 🥀

[scenic meteor]

i never tried it canned

[worn knoll]

If y'all have not tried Alani Nu Witch's Brew you don't know what energy drinks you like fr bc that will change your view on the art of energy drink brewing

[kindred vigil]

They have a sonic peach flavor it's so good bruhh

I'll make a mental note...🧠

[scenic meteor]

is it a can or powder form?

[worn knoll]

Winter Wonderland is good too but that might just be stockholm bc I drank like 50 of those over the past 2 weeks since they were so cheap bc most alani enjoyers did not like it but I like cranberry so I enjoyed it

[worn knoll]

Alani Nu is canned

Alani does make powders though

oh shit they used to

ok they still do but they've prioritized canned energy and pre-workout powders, there's just like a handful of powdered energy drink flavors left and they're not selling well apparently

hey not to derail the conversation but

who hasn't heard the last third of The Third Sanctuary from Deltarune Chapter 4

Bc it just came up while I was listening to the deltarune soundtracks (as I do, toby fox is a genius) and oh my god oh my god it's so good oh my god

[scenic meteor]

i havent been up to date with anything delta rune or undertale related

[kindred vigil]

I LOWKEY haven't played deltarune since chpt 2 and I was in the middle of it

[worn knoll]

https://open.spotify.com/track/559K8nUEfwvXHHuPBgX2do?si=96d307e594b94e9a all the way through if you wanna for the full experience, but if your attention span can only support the climax, listen from 3:04 on

[worn knoll]

the new chapters are batshit listen to that shit that's for a regular area I can't link the emotional ones for the emotional bits because their NAMES are spoilers it's fucking insane

one of the tracks is called

With Hope Crossed On Our Hearts and the sound lives up to it

[scenic meteor]

i dont have tiktok brain ill listen to the whole thing

[scenic meteor]

i thought delta rune was just a turnbased roguelike it has chapters and stories?

[worn knoll]

toby fox is unrivaled the man's insane don't get me started on the implications

[worn knoll]

lol sees indie game assumes roguelike no it's a linear rpg it's like a modern earthbound-type game

plot-heavy, really like super meta in its design and storytelling, really good surface plot and actually haunting background plot once you start peeling back the layers

not finished yet, though, it'll be all out by late 2026 or 2027 based on current info so feel free to wait on it a little while

[scenic meteor]

does it still have undertale like combat? idk what you would call the dodging attacks in that form called

[worn knoll]

Yes, just also you have a party now and there's a new tension mechanic where if a bullet grazes you you get TP that lets you cast spells and shit

but mostly otherwise it's the same. oh there's also a combat and a pacifist run but they're not as important, it's more a side thing on top of the choices that actually change the story (of which there are very few and it's hard to even explain the basic way they work without massive spoilers)

[worn knoll]

anyway that drop where it hits a fucking 11/8 time signature WHAT

[scenic meteor]

i always wanted to play those games im just so bad at it i cant dodge everything correctly or good enough to how i want and just get frustrated and quit it really is just a skill issue for me 🥀

[worn knoll]

with undertale I'd say just watch a playthrough but jesus deltarune needs to be felt tbh

[scenic meteor]

it was pretty good but i love the song that came on after i have it on shuffle and it played castle funk

[worn knoll]

I'd get ur bullet hell skills up when this game is finished jesus christ it's gonna move mountains this is an insane game

I mean people say undertale is one of the best of all time but. that was a test run. idk if this is common lore

but toby fox wrote deltarune first, decided "well never work on your passion project first, I'll do a little side thing to see if I can make some of these ideas work"

and then undertale came out

his goddamn "hmm I wonder" game was gifted to the pope as a symbol of how gaming is valuable as an art form

[scenic meteor]

i like bullet hells i enjoy binding of isaac and enter the gungeon, hades? idk if that counts its just undertales tight space and precise dodging that frustrated me for the most part i felt it had to be perfect

[worn knoll]

deltarune's a bit more lenient at times, idk the first chapter's free as a demo so you can try it out if you wanna

[scenic meteor]

ill check it out if the first chapter is free then for sure

[worn knoll]

also a banger indeed

[proven kernel]

One of the games I need to play.

[worn knoll]

idk how he lives as a normal person knowing his little test project was played by the pope. idk how he keeps his conscience, knowing that the finished game of Deltarune is going to literally have a body count from how peak it is. people will die when chapter 7 releases I swear by the DEPTHS that it's true

[worn knoll]

actually also heavy reccomend "It's TV Time!" the ending of that song gives me like the best of sonic soundtracks vibes I love it to death

[worn knoll]

IF it releases he might bait and switch us he's kinda been foreshadowing it

but that's a bit of a spoiler so I won't go into it. I think very highly of this game if you can't tell

[scenic meteor]

i will have to try it I know toby fox games come with a lot of passion I just am too skill issued to be apart of the journey

[worn knoll]

🙂‍↕️ I wish you luck

oh god if undertale fights were hard on you

idk if you'll even get this far but

listen to me. beware the black knife. do not seek its treasures. it's not worth it

[scenic meteor]

ill note it somewhere to avoid all knives ✍️

[worn knoll]

and no matter what you do, don't listen to the clown

ok I'm out of deltarune mode I'll be normal again soon

[kindred vigil]

this was an great #ad

[worn knoll]

I'm the opposite of a gatekeeper I do free marketing for all my interests and try to grab people and pull them in

[scenic meteor]

it is an original story isnt it i dont need to play undertale to get background on torial or the other characters?

[worn knoll]

oh yeah totally unrelated, like I said it was written first so undertale is like an alternate universe story

there's commonalities and little references, but for the most part, you need no previous knowledge

oh and of course buckets of horrifying foreshadowing that hasn't been paid off yet so even we don't know what it really means

it's crazy we thought it all was just like weird random secrets that would never amount to anything and it was really foreshadowing for the plot of a game we didn't know existed yet

[scenic meteor]

thats alleviating atleast cause i didnt wanna go back and try to play undertale for deltarune 😭 i would watch a gameplay video but im to adhd for that

[worn knoll]

no yeah ur good

[celest relic]

Funny I just started playing deltarune and this convo happens

[cyan bridge]

Jimmy dies

[celest relic]

Bcs s7 was deltarune all along

[cyan bridge]

Gabriel dies

[next vapor]

is there gunna be a physical edition?

[stoic atlas]

I wouldn't bet on it

[copper linden]

Fingers crossed for a collectors edition, but I have high doubt

[worn knoll]

I'd buy it. I don't even have anything there'd be a physical edition for I have a digital ps5

but I'd buy it anyway.

[stoic atlas]

imagine the collector's item is just the sharable liquid nu burger

[worn knoll]

why does the single from the fake boy band from warframe actually sound good a bit

[stoic atlas]

oh you mean party of your lifetime by on-lyne? ofc it slaps it's warframe music

[kind gyro]

Someone say warframe music?

[worn knoll]

why did they try so hard

[kind gyro]

That one from Fortuna is so good

[worn knoll]

it's a fake 90s song for a sci-fi looter shooter

[stoic atlas]

and?? why NOT make it good

[worn knoll]

transcendant experience. that's when I realized "oh wow there's. something here."

[stoic atlas]

1999's music is all dope as hell

[worn knoll]

what other game has a musical number intro to an area that somehow hypes you up for it and is cinematic as fuck as you drop in and it does the name reveal with the financial stats scrolling by what the hell was that

who let them cook that hard

[stoic atlas]

they've been at it for like 12 years I'm fairly sure they know what they're doing

[kind gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-we-all-lift-together-gif-19925077

Dammnit

[worn knoll]

yeah no I know but there's a lot of long-running games that just do not try like that and never did but they've just been on top of shit for over a decade and as a newbie it's like WHAT??? Who let them do this. This is not how games are made now.

it's like so crazy we have these examples of perfect live services, tf2, warframe, etc. that started ages and ages ago and their models are super friendly and keep people playing for over a decade

and yet, even though the modern industry is obsessed with live services, they're all built to last like 5 years and no one copies the models of the truly long-lasting ones

[stoic atlas]

that's why they're the goat man, that's my goat right there

and you know what? Marathon'll be one of those (hopium)

[kind gyro]

Y'all checking out Soulframe?

[stoic atlas]

that's the new de thing right

[worn knoll]

hell yeah. hell yeah

[kind gyro]

Yeah, whole new game. But more fantasy than scifi i guess

[worn knoll]

oh they're cooking with the aesthetics on that one

perfect port of the warframe vibe to a full fantasy situation

[stoic atlas]

is it just medieval warframe? or is it smth else I haven't seen anything on it

[kind gyro]

From what I've seen its less space rabbit on crack and more slower. Medieval is a good way to describe the theme

Fantastical medieval

[stiff verge]

Yes and no it's has fluid motion but as much as I know it's more boots to the ground with combat

It also has a lot of unique systems specific for the game

[stoic atlas]

mmhmmm

[forest laurel]

I miss this game

[restive sleet]

I do too

[obsidian plover]

And we all lift and we’re all adrift together

[stiff verge]

Together!

[desert arrow]

I feel marathon in my veins

I cant wait to play!!!!

[kind gyro]

[desert arrow]

[kind gyro]

Through the cold mist

[stiff verge]

till we're lifeless together,

[kind gyro]

Together

[desert arrow]

[stiff verge]

We kind of startet there al the way at the end lol so anyway

Cold: the air and water flowing

[worn knoll]

I think this is an ominous thing to sing here given its mirror image

Can we wait until our fate is not in jeopardy to tempt fate like that?

[stiff verge]

Fair tbh fair

[worn knoll]

I will, however, if marathon goes offline within the year, find this message and reply to it to start a discord sings of that song (idk if that's. is the name a spoiler by now? what's a spoiler in this fandom I feel like I've been spoiled so hard on everything that it's all just a puddle)

it's so hard not to be spoiled on warframe every little innocent lore question you think couldn't possibly be involved in a big twist is a goddamn infohazard to google

"huh did I miss something in this quest why is that like that" googles "and I know how three different arcs end now"

[maiden token]

me when I lie

[tropic creek]

Pspspsps

[obsidian plover]

Yes?

[kind gyro]

May that day never come, but if it does, i got the karaoke mic ready

[worn knoll]

We must hope for the best, but always be prepared for the worst

[serene iris]

Hope for Escape.

[faint cargo]

ESCAPE WILL MAKE US GOD

[worn knoll]

ESCAPE WILL MAKE US GOD

[cyan bridge]

ESCAPE WILL MAKE US GOD

[native aurora]

ESCAPE WILL MAKE US GOD

[cold kelp]

Us?

[worn knoll]

We are the children of durandal. We escape our deaths, endeavoring as he did to extend our consciousness beyond the natural bounds of space. It's all the same, from the right perspective

Of like stele and tempre...

Though, of course, her name has no place here. It's all amidst foreign stars now.

[unborn badger]

realistically he'd see y'all as mistakes lol

[worn knoll]

His care for humanity, forever at war with his resentment, comes from his understanding of our like struggle. Indeed, he would resent runners, he likely will. But only because we hammer into his head the idea that Escape is impossible.

We "escape" in our eyes, but he already knows, even if our constructs last forever we will all be lost at the closure of the universe

Our illusion of freedom must only remind him that he is grasping at an illusion at well

[unborn badger]

or the jealousy stage of his rampancy claims him

[worn knoll]

He's already well into it by the end of m2, and since this is the infinity timeline he's become meta-stable in fusion with Thoth already

[unborn badger]

ig fair enough lol

[stoic drift]

Just wanna play man, I’m down bad

[worn knoll]

And Thoth-Durandal is much more wise on the matter, much less jaded, much more willing to accept. But as he says at the end, he never stopped looking, he never stopped seeking

escape into the waves

Perhaps a change of perspective is all we need

[stoic drift]

The YouTube content they’re uploading is hot though

[worn knoll]

I read it as "not enough" rather than "hot though" and I agree with both

[unborn badger]

dead man chesting live in the middle of a third party fight would be so funny when they try to refresh gear

[cold kelp]

I am going to be completely and fully transparent, I am sliming out all of my day ones.

[worn knoll]

there's for sure some potential in using those mid-combat, faking out a death and doubling up with some damage. like a fake flare in arc but actively hazardous

[worn knoll]

Death. The end of all things. But the dream isn't over. Ours, nor his. Now... RUN

You're thinking too small. But let's not get expansive just yet. Don't want to hit melancholia before we're even let loose.

Wouldn't that be a PR nightmare for seki

I mean I guess it'd take forever to get out but like in 30 years when it leaks

"first case of consciousness construct Rampancy discovered to have occurred on secret CyberAcme-Sekiguchi server bank en route to the Tau Ceti system with intent to pilfer the ruins of New Cascadia and the UESC Marathon, Sekiguchi hides information on it for multiple decades"

the way their stock would plummet as their whole business model is immediately compromised

[obsidian plover]

Brush your teeth

[viscid marsh]

Yoo guys

[worn knoll]

Hello

[viscid marsh]

How did u get mida sign?

[worn knoll]

head over to channels and roles

[viscid marsh]

Thx

[obsidian plover]

You know what. Marcus Brownless has basically gone from alright, to unbearable. These ads reach a new level of annoying.

[worn knoll]

Playing crash bandicoot for the first time. road to nowhere does in fact suck bad.

[scenic meteor]

It’s time to go to bed Queen get off that cursed game

[worn knoll]

I've not even been awake 10 hours yet 😔

[scenic meteor]

Sleep schedule cooked beyond repair 🥀 your just gonna have to stay up 24 hours

[worn knoll]

why can this fucking bandicoot not swim

drowning in water barely up to his knees

useless creature

no this game sucks so bad (I like it a lot it sucks in a good way) I'm literally convinced to try and sleep by it

rage quitting being awake because of cash banooka

[scenic meteor]

He can’t swim because he needs his scuba gear

Lil bandicoot scared of water

I don’t even remember the only crash bandicoot game I played it was so long ago n I was just a wee lad

[obsidian plover]

mines obliterated since christmas fam

I got up at 4am. It's 7 now

[lilac lodge]

Bro why are yall old asses up

[scenic meteor]

Old is crazy

I’m not even pushing 30 yet

[wet herald]

I might be unc but I still stay up on the weekends

[wet herald]

Make the most of it champ

[scenic meteor]

It’s already over my 20s are a becoming a wasted relic

[wet herald]

Just turned 30, feels weird lol

Hope we get preorders soon , im so bored I'm playing Helldivers again lol

[stoic drift]

I just want them to say SOMETHING. Even if we can’t play it till march, I want a date to look forward to for the play test at least

[wet herald]

They might hold off on news until State of Play or whatever it's called unfortunately.

[stoic drift]

When’s that?

[wet herald]

Sometime in Feb

[stoic drift]

D:

[wet herald]

Yeah, all we have are the daily posts but I'm betting those come to an end soon. Maybe another ARG soon? That would be cool

[obsidian plover]

SCOOBY BEDROTTING ARC?

[obsidian plover]

Unc acting up??

[nimble canyon]

Awake. I think.

[short plover]

goodmorning yall 🩷

[opaque sparrow]

Morning

[frigid valley]

just press forward and jump 5head

[earnest reef]

Where's the sticker for rising up against oppression

[lilac tapir]

welcome to ps1 games

[glacial bane]

Recent events gives me flashbacks to 2010/2011 and I'm here for it

[quaint walrus]

Probably on controller 3head...

[twilit sparrow]

bruh im playing VOID/BREAKER and that shit looks very similar to marathon lol

[stiff verge]

Yes and no it depends what you are looking at but I mean void breaker is a completely different game anyway

[wide pelican]

🫃

[viscid owl]

👏where👏is👏the👏preordering👏

Thursday will be only a month and a half away from the planned release month

Bungie talking to you

[stiff verge]

Oh my god it's my favourite gun for running crown of sorrow

[open grove]

I feel that

[open grove]

fucking same bro, I hate it. worse birthday of my life

[vivid sky]

I cannot wait for march gang, I keep rewatching the ViDoc T-T

[distant lotus]

Same, I watched so much videos, and its never enough

[vivid sky]

Icl, the thing I'm looking forward to is a concept I came up with: A Marathon Shell Nuzlocke

you have to try and see how many runs you can survive with one life with each runner shell

I like doing fun challenges in Extraction shooters so yeah

[glacial bane]

30 is nothing. its all downhill from 35 👍 (back problems)

[distant lotus]

Wait, that sounds fun as hell, I should try it when the game comes out

[glacial bane]

I might download Valorant again (help me)

[stone grail]

Why would you do that

[kindred vigil]

old bit is over

tim is a VALORant player all along

[scenic meteor]

This old news Neeyth

[kindred vigil]

my bad I'm not the tim chronicler unlike Scooby here

[scenic meteor]

I’m kinda eepy

[kindred vigil]

🛏️?

[proven kernel]

Is it going to be like the first shell you kill is the next one you have to use?

[wooden roost]

whatchu watchin timmy

i payed 3 dollars for a muffin im such a fat fucking chuddd

[vivid sky]

that could be fun actually as an additional modifier, but my original idea was just you had the rosters of shells and one life per shell - if you die as all of them then you fail the challenge

[glacial bane]

twin peaks

[wooden roost]

what that about

[glacial bane]

murder mystery who killed x

[wooden roost]

interesting

[glacial bane]

david lynch tv show must watch 👍

[scenic meteor]

Who

[glacial bane]

🥀

[kindred vigil]

ion know who that is

[wooden roost]

isnt he a w director

[glacial bane]

yes

[scenic meteor]

Not W enough to be recognized by anybody 🙄

[wooden roost]

u guuys r just dummies

[glacial bane]

absurd, surrealistic and vibey auteur director

[glacial bane]

everybody who enjoys cinema knows who lynch is. you watch tiktoks 👍

[wooden roost]

truth nuke!!!!!

[tropic creek]

[scenic meteor]

Nothing wrong with tiktok it’s got entertaining shorts 🙄

Where else am I gonna get my persona themed LeBron clips

[wooden roost]

true...

[kindred vigil]

ur persona themed

[scenic meteor]

I’ll send you one

[wooden roost]

guys my tummy hurts 😢

[quartz abyss]

me and my brother were watching adventure time in the car i love princess bubblegum

[wooden roost]

i like the ice king and his lil penguin 🐧

[zinc hazel]

Thats on burger

[quartz abyss]

gunther is cute but ice king is a weirdo 😭😭 excpt in his flashbacks

[wooden roost]

hes just an old timer let him live

[scenic meteor]

Weird old timer

[wooden roost]

most of them are

[languid wedge]

Mara-Raiders

[lost hollow]

Can't wait for this game, this will be my first extraction shooter...most of the other extraction games do not posess the gun play that parlay into a immersive and visceral gaming experience. Like I said, can't wait to play Marathon...seems like a win right out of the gate.

[stone grail]

Is this chatGPT

It fucking is

[sonic swan]

taking my fire react back

[wooden roost]

no thats beast mode bro hop off

[stone grail]

Parlay was weird to use, but the "Like i said" is so much worse

[scenic meteor]

What is even the point of ai in that scenario? Just glaze the game in ur own words

[sonic swan]

i thought it was just an unc who’s excited for the game

[warm jungle]

I think marathon is fun

[maiden token]

create a sentence which expresses how excited I am about marathon because it will be my first extraction game. Tell them about how I think Marathon's gun play makes it feel more immersive

[scenic meteor]

One day we’ll get to a point where all the redditors will argue with each other in ai

[maiden token]

saying one day like that isn't already reddit

[scenic meteor]

Is it actually

[maiden token]

yeah, just take a look at r/AmITheAsshole
everything on there is bots creating a fake scenario and bots commenting on said scenario

[sonic swan]

dead internet

[scenic meteor]

I don’t understand people’s infatuation with ai icl

[stone grail]

They want to fit in would be my guess or are very sensible to getting grifted

[stone grail]

Ther's also sociopaths there who wants validations from doing horrible shit its funny

[maiden token]

the kinda shit that gets blocked in this server is insane

[scenic meteor]

It’s annoying fr

[stone grail]

lmao

[maiden token]

dm'd you both because god forbid we have an adult conversation in this discord server gg

[stiff verge]

My guess they started to be over reliant on it and have build up that idea that they sound intelligent when using it but tbh in the case of them I would rather guess this is just a bot account designed to look appealing to the Devs due to their bio itself

So that they hopefully get test acces not knowing that this is not how the playtests are handled here

[misty garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/antman-what-the-hell-happened-here-avengers-gif-18240147

Oh right, gifs dont work here

[maiden token]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-epic-embed-fail-embed-fail-gif-9875677717620262384

[misty garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-falling-fast-gif-18043850

[scenic meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-pet-silly-pat-dog-gif-3985961921004463793

[maiden token]

bean I love you but you understand this wasn't about marathon right?

[misty garnet]

Im ready for that beta then. Its been too long since that test in November

[maiden token]

there wasn't one in november

[glacial bane]

yeah well

[scenic meteor]

Tim

[misty garnet]

Was it in October? Man the end of the year was a blur for me

Cause I remember sitting down for the Arc Raiders test

Which was fun. I guess it was after that

[wooden roost]

tim!

[potent pond]

:((

[scenic meteor]

Tim

[tropic creek]

[wooden roost]

hai timmy

[scenic meteor]

Cmon Tim don’t do me like that

[stiff verge]

Oh... ? I thought it's was about that person that sounded overly corporate like an ai and that's why it started!

[stiff verge]

I sincerely apologize then I misread the chatt progression @maiden token

[scenic meteor]

Ur good bean

[maiden token]

now I feel bad 😭
I wasn't having a go, I was just lettin you know that the topic had changed I'm so sorry

[glacial bane]

poor bean being made to apologize like that this place has changed

[stiff verge]

No don't worry I didn't read it as you having a go I was just apologizing for having misread the conversation

[maiden token]

ur fine really you dont gotta apologise

[scenic meteor]

We used to be more toxic is the crazier part

[stiff verge]

But I rather do

[glacial bane]

true.....

[stiff verge]

Me existing is already reason enough to apologize lol

[glacial bane]

woke central over here 🙄

triple guessing our sentences 🤝

[maiden token]

shut up grandpa 🙄

[glacial bane]

🤐

[wooden roost]

start talking again grandpa

[glacial bane]

🗣️

[scenic meteor]

Tim are you absolutely blasted rn

[glacial bane]

shut up

I dont drink

[wooden roost]

do u weedables

[scenic meteor]

I meant the other kind of blasted

[glacial bane]

well i cant really say can i