🗣marathon-general-chat

[wooden roost]

w firends

[full gazelle]

I'd watch you play gamey games c:

it was horrific

[glacial bane]

I wouldn't

[trim summit]

probably the most devious shits after taco bell

[wooden roost]

thats y u real asf

[full gazelle]

tim, you, me, taco bell, 2nd street, 11 o'clock, extra chunky burrito

[glacial bane]

c ya there

[full gazelle]

🩵

[full gazelle]

🔥

[full gazelle]

taco bell unethical

[wooden roost]

youre a fake freind

[sonic swan]

i’ve never had a serious shit after taco bell. idk what everyone is ordering to be dropping nukes post meal

[wooden roost]

pedguin the typa dude to push u in the way of traffic for no reason

[iron blaze]

maybe

[scenic meteor]

only you tho pedguin not pushing me

[glacial bane]

mods

[full gazelle]

TJs is always good on me but Taco Bell out here throwin my back out all im sayin

[sonic swan]

they are what..

what do you be getting

[scenic meteor]

taco bell definitely gives you bubble guts 75% of the time

[wooden roost]

scoob wont eat dons but will down taco bell and shit his brains out

[full gazelle]

the triple greasy double decker supreme dorito burrito 🤤

and a water.

[sonic swan]

@grok is this real

[scenic meteor]

i rarely be eating taco bell too tho if i go its only for the cream balls

[wooden roost]

the what 🤨

[full gazelle]

yeah I'm memein I never eat taco bell except for the nacho fries

[sonic swan]

never heard of the creamy nuts. you guys must be getting secret menu items

[scenic meteor]

the cinnemon balls that burst in ur mouth 🤤 its actually so peak

[sonic swan]

ooohhhhhh 🤌

[scenic meteor]

cinnabon delights

[full gazelle]

you just gotta gaslight the drive through AI

fuck you could prob get yourself some popeyes if you tried.

[wooden roost]

i hate shit that burst in my mouth like creme donuts

[full gazelle]

:O that actually sounds lit af

[sonic swan]

my drive thrus are still manned by real americans not clankers

[scenic meteor]

its pretty good better when they bring em out warm n toasty but thats 50/50

[full gazelle]

yeah 2077 came early where im at

[full gazelle]

ah such is life gotta try tho

[sonic swan]

i got kicked from the cyberpunk server

[full gazelle]

how lol

[wooden roost]

i saw dat only as a windows noti and YESSSSSSSS

[full gazelle]

LOL

[sonic swan]

i said jokingly someone should johnny silverhand an ai data center

it was in theme

[scenic meteor]

pretty in theme

[full gazelle]

diabolical cook

[sonic swan]

the mod did not like it

[full gazelle]

I literally have the demolitron strapped to gojo's back 24/7 in fortnite shooting 9 year olds in the forehead

cyberpunk has prob the coolest game nuke

[sonic swan]

does a nuke go off?

[scenic meteor]

yea

[full gazelle]

yea its what johnny did

[sonic swan]

oh i thought it was just a regular bomb

[full gazelle]

the demolitron at arasaka tower

[sonic swan]

i’m a fake choom

[full gazelle]

Boshido 2, what was the name of the bomb again?

it was insane

hit harder than fo3 nuke imo

megaton

[glacial bane]

did we actually see the explosion in the game i cant remember

[full gazelle]

fo3 and 2077 yeah.

[glacial bane]

when during 2077

like the johnny missions

[full gazelle]

oh like as it's happening not just a still?

[glacial bane]

yeah

[full gazelle]

I think its just the still unfortunately

[glacial bane]

ah right

[full gazelle]

the vibes were unreal though

[solar bronze]

You see it in johnnys interrogation before getting soulkillered, but that lends itself to him being an unreliable narrator, since he shouldn't have been that far away when it popped

[glacial bane]

2077 came out 6 years ago this year

[kindred vigil]

Hello everybody

[full gazelle]

I guess fo3 goes crazier in a way since you can just watch as you press a button ans then literally walk over to the massive crater and permanent map change unless your save scum

[full gazelle]

project orion can't come fast enough 😔

[scenic meteor]

neeyth hop on

[kindred vigil]

not yet tim gotta wait until we hit the games release date

[kindred vigil]

on what

[scenic meteor]

minecraft dungeons

[glacial bane]

still technically correct

[full gazelle]

thank god they have cross save I'm transferring over my data to pc and goin ape shit on mods prob

[cyan bridge]

guess who got unmuted

[full gazelle]

wait do yall actually play minecraft dungeons I've been wanting to get into it

[wooden roost]

i wanna be a spartan 1 😁

[scenic meteor]

i havent played it since it came out but it was fun

[full gazelle]

that'd be dope

[sonic swan]

he’s a super unreliable narrator. morgan black hand wasn’t even mentioned by johnny when he was the real main character that day imo

[glacial bane]

In May of 2025, Project Orion entered pre-production

wont be out til 2030 gg

[wooden roost]

id run really fast in circles

[full gazelle]

I'd play, never played always wanted to, gotta buy it tho

[full gazelle]

holy shit

[scenic meteor]

dont get it hytale comes out in 3 days

[full gazelle]

oh I'm locked in on hytale, already got the launcher installed

hyped af

[scenic meteor]

im excited for it i saw they gave modders a chance to create mods early which is pretty cool looks like itll be a great game

[trim summit]

hytale, high guard, why don’t you hire some bitches

[full gazelle]

ikkk its so hyped

[kindred vigil]

you don't even like hutale

[sonic swan]

thankfully cdpr hired a new studio to work on cyberpunk only meanwhile the main team in poland works on witcher 4

[scenic meteor]

me n tetra yapped about it yesterday its peak but its in alpha but itll still be good

[full gazelle]

im just excited to watch hytale grow like MC except we'll actually get large terraria style updates and fun rare skins/items to collect

[full gazelle]

ah based

[sonic swan]

how do u have the cat by your name

[glacial bane]

imma hytale myself outta here c ya chat

[kindred vigil]

Liar

[scenic meteor]

i also hate mojang because they only update the game on a yearly basis so 🖕 those guys

[full gazelle]

yeah I don't advise anyone buy it unless you enjoyed the bugginess from the minecraft beta days or earlier

I sure as fuck did

[trim summit]

what did moo dang do to you 😭

[full gazelle]

absolute facts and they drag their feet and now they don't even do major updates

[full gazelle]

literally just be lazy fucks with a billion dollar budget

[trim summit]

just a small business wdym

[full gazelle]

bai tim! 🩵

[full gazelle]

on god

[wooden roost]

-rubs my billion dollar shaped belly- how about crusteaceans u can ride and makezombie horses real

[kindred vigil]

Trueee

[full gazelle]

idk and minecraft vanilla art style is too restrictive with no mojang provided modding tools for java causing an absolute spaghetti mess of artstyle

[full gazelle]

hey guys check it out we added a NEW ORE! that's right! mine mine mine! more mine to your craft! except it literally only does one random thing. OKAY SEE YOU NEXT YEAR MINORS BYE!!!!!

[wooden roost]

hop off copper big dawg we got the copper golem now

[trim summit]

i only played torrented minecraft

[scenic meteor]

copper was so pointless

[full gazelle]

oh my b 😔

[full gazelle]

insane cook

[wooden roost]

dude got no friends wtf what about multiplayer

[trim summit]

just kidding, i only did that in high school because no money

[trim summit]

bro i just played till 5am building shit on creative during high school summers

[full gazelle]

minecraft with the girlies go crazy

[wooden roost]

fr mp is the best part of the game

[trim summit]

real. solo player forever.

survival is fun but it gets boring with friends

[wooden roost]

pedgun did u not play multiplayer with pals

[iron blaze]

did

[scenic meteor]

lowk i could only play minecraft with friends it was too boring solo

[full gazelle]

I did survival infinite gen, survival restricted world size (actually a really goated way to play shout out mc xb360), mc hunger games, creative superflat, random custom modpacks, some rlcraft and atm, my friends were too lazy to play skyblock lol

[wooden roost]

i get diamonds then quit everytime

[kindred vigil]

losr

[wooden roost]

👊

[scenic meteor]

i would build a house n then quit

[full gazelle]

kinda real although I loved just diamond strip mining y-11 y-12 y-13 for hours lol

[kindred vigil]

losr

[wooden roost]

yt podcasts music and strip mining is so chill

[kindred vigil]

is that what u be doing

[trim summit]

yt podcast 🥀

[full gazelle]

fuck yeah I'd listen to hella music and relax

[scenic meteor]

neeyth what do u do in minecraft herd sheep

[kindred vigil]

Scooby def listens to albums playing dumbass hearthstone

[trim summit]

yeah back then i’d just be listening to full albums while playing minecraft

[kindred vigil]

mind ur business

[full gazelle]

part of my love pre sunset d2 was just listening to youtube n music and grinding strikes

[trim summit]

that was me and warframe back when i grinded from MR13 to M23 in a month or so

[wooden roost]

@iron blaze ho bon chudlock

[full gazelle]

and then you sunset my childhood @sour wagon
👁️👄👁️

[kindred vigil]

worst game oat

[wooden roost]

LEAVE him outta this

dont roll ya eyes i got good internet we can play

[full gazelle]

were you in the room when it happened? did you even shed a tear?

[kindred vigil]

Blaming dev 🥀

[iron blaze]

hop on

[full gazelle]

im just slandering amir idk why I've only talked to bro once my bad amir

[scenic meteor]

only thing i can blame Amir for is being an absolute unit on thresh 🤫

[wooden roost]

im not gonna talk tho cause i havent met my roommate yet and dont wanna sound like a chud on first impression

or i might just play a solo game to learn

[iron blaze]

hop in call so we can talk to yea

[full gazelle]

idk I'm an andyandy personally they gave me team cat role and noted my merch request

[scenic meteor]

the sooner he knows ur a chud the sooner you can be normal

[kindred vigil]

U got experience ?

[scenic meteor]

partially

[kindred vigil]

🥀

[full gazelle]

bro lol

[kindred vigil]

u bad at first impressions huh

[full gazelle]

takin shots at the boys like its target practice 💔

[scenic meteor]

i would think im bad at first impressions

[kindred vigil]

I can see

[trim summit]

i have a resting bitch face so i’m sure i do

[full gazelle]

vine boom sfx

[kindred vigil]

ur first impression here was a ussr dog who reacted skull all the time

[scenic meteor]

actually true

[sour wagon]

🙁

[full gazelle]

im sorry lol

[sour wagon]

XD all good homie

[full gazelle]

🩵

[sour wagon]

I'll catch you on tau ceti

[kindred vigil]

those who apologize

[scenic meteor]

Amir gonna take all ur loot gg

[full gazelle]

nah but fr did you have the infinity gauntlet
did you watch IO and Titan vanish like my aspirations as a kid

[kindred vigil]

English vega

[full gazelle]

so there was this planet with a lot of water that made your max spec pc run at 30 fps in d2

and amir personally yeeted it to oblivion

[kindred vigil]

I know what titan and io is but what does infinity gauntlet refer to

[scenic meteor]

neeyth dont know marvel 🥀

[kindred vigil]

I'm so stupid nevermind

[sour wagon]

The snap

[kindred vigil]

I remembered infinity war 🥀

[full gazelle]

holy shit amir I KNEW IT

[sour wagon]

Most of my d2 exposure was beyond light in college

[kindred vigil]

Didn't play menagerie 🥀💔

[trim summit]

i miss my wife

[full gazelle]

ah beyond light was still very very pretty, although I only played campaign

[sour wagon]

I played a lot of d1 the start of d2 and then school came hahaha

[kindred vigil]

no sundial, no contact, no forges, 🥀🥀💔

I miss sundial everyday

[full gazelle]

real im going full time at college plus partner stuff and marathon is gunna own the rest of my life

hytale too

im ready for tau ceti 🔥

[scenic meteor]

i didnt like sundial

[kindred vigil]

chuddddd

[full gazelle]

I loved Sundial

[stoic pivot]

[scenic meteor]

house of wolves was better

[stoic pivot]

what

[kindred vigil]

omg bro you and ur rose tinted glasses mane

[trim summit]

house of furries

[kindred vigil]

I'd play sundial 2/47 over some house of wolves prison of elders shit bruh 😭✌️

[scenic meteor]

prison of elders was literally peak

[kindred vigil]

Challenge of elders tho...👀🙏

[full gazelle]

prison of elders was fun but I really really like all the anniversary stuff

[scenic meteor]

bite sized raids what more could you want on destiny

[kindred vigil]

that's called dungeons

[full gazelle]

only activity I actually played extensively post DCV besides campaign

[kindred vigil]

are u referring to dares

[full gazelle]

ye

[kindred vigil]

dares was fun for a cool week then it gets so tiring and boring quickly

[scenic meteor]

dares was cool just wish it wasnt as much of a snooze fest

[kindred vigil]

I thought it would be updated every expansion cycle or sum

[full gazelle]

I absolutely love it personally

I'm a grindy gal what can I say c:

[kindred vigil]

it's not a bad activity it's just boring quickly

It's better than most acitvies at least

[full gazelle]

wait amir holy shit ✋😟🤚

ima lock in

[kindred vigil]

cause goodness every final shape seasonal activity outside of heresey is so boring

[full gazelle]

bro gunna wip out the dev console on me

[scenic meteor]

he gonna give you an early wipe just cause

[full gazelle]

didn't they already vault dreadnaught

[kindred vigil]

Lightfall activies for their seasons were boring asl too outside of coil

[stoic pivot]

woulda been more fun if Revenant weapons weren't dog

[full gazelle]

D:

[kindred vigil]

That too, they were so bad

Rehashed activity, horrible loot pool, boring main activity...🥀

[full gazelle]

I might brb gettin snacky for now

[kindred vigil]

I had more fun doing seraph bunkers and towers public event in season of worthy than the entirety of revenant oh my God they need to not never do anything like that again

[stoic pivot]

I actually liked the Onslaught but there were just zero good Revenant weapons, I remember the ONLY good weapons that season were from the dungeon

no nightfall weapons no crucible weapons no nothin

[trim summit]

snacc

[kindred vigil]

those who get less but pay more for the season pass 💀

[scenic meteor]

neeyth

[kindred vigil]

what scooby

⌚...

[scenic meteor]

what are ur opinions on warhammer as a whole

[kindred vigil]

stupid franchise

[stoic pivot]

it is a game

[nimble canyon]

fascism bad

goodnight.

[kindred vigil]

Idk I just blindly hate on it I have no issue with it I just don't like the fans

[stoic pivot]

I just dislike the game

warhammer sounds cool but then you play it and it's less cool

[kindred vigil]

It's just one of those things I irrationally dislike we all got that

[stoic pivot]

yeah I irrationally dislike speedrunning

[kindred vigil]

what's wrong with sr

[scenic meteor]

sleep well 🌃 😴 💤 🌑

[stoic pivot]

there's no reason for it but I would prefer it literally not even exist conceptually and I think the world would be better off without it. It's irrational for a reason

[scenic meteor]

mine is halo

[kindred vigil]

I get it

[inland hatch]

blocked

[sonic swan]

demon slayer movie is still not available in hd on the high seas

[kindred vigil]

I mean I also don't like most rts and almost/practically all mobas irrationally

[scenic meteor]

thats just preference tho i feel not everybody can like every genre possible

[stoic pivot]

that's fair, I also think that mobas are inherently bad game design personally

[kindred vigil]

rts I think I just need to play good ones but moba

[sonic swan]

wot

[stoic pivot]

you heard me

[kindred vigil]

mannnn fucking mobas are the bane of my existence I get the extreme appeal but omg

[sonic swan]

do you guys like anything

[stoic pivot]

yes

[kindred vigil]

i probably need to play a good moba cause I did like gigantic (I don't know if u can even consider that a moba)

[kindred vigil]

We're talking about things we irrationally dislike without reason

[scenic meteor]

i know why people wouldnt wanna learn mobas but when you actually learn it and get somewhat decent at it they are really fun

[sonic swan]

ohh

[stoic pivot]

to be clear all I've said in this conversation so far is that I dislike speedrunning and mobas and I'm being asked if I like anything

[kindred vigil]

I wish gigantic was alive mann that game was awesome

but alas

[sonic swan]

knowledge.

[full gazelle]

I think I would delete 9GAG from existence. No beef it just annoys me conceptually.

[kindred vigil]

with all the things I dislike you'd think I'd irrationally hate cod but like that game just makes me genuinely upset whenever I think of it

[stoic pivot]

mobas isn't even irrational for me I could explain all day why I think the core concept behind a MOBA is just inherently poor game design

[kindred vigil]

it's like what happened to you man ur not the franchise I used to geek about

[kindred vigil]

ok go ahead

cuz I'm curious what makes moba bad game design

[scenic meteor]

if it was bad game design nobody would play it

[kindred vigil]

True.....look at dota 2 and StarCraft and league player counts...

[full gazelle]

DoTA 2 kinda lit

[kindred vigil]

moba and MMO are the two long lasting genre for a reason but I think because of that they're so toxic, and hard to get into because it's just so, well, old

[sonic swan]

mobas are far more toxic than mmos

[kindred vigil]

That is of course dependant on game obviously but you get it

[sonic swan]

mmos are super grindy

[stoic pivot]

I will get into this but I warn you now

It is 10PM and I will LITERALLY stay up all night talking about this

[kindred vigil]

yes I'm more willing to try mmos than I would a moba

[kindred vigil]

I think Scooby got time he can be my fact checker

[stoic pivot]

and I'm gonna treat this like a dissertation

[sonic swan]

i think you would like at least one of them

[full gazelle]

I love MMOs, its one of my vices

[stoic pivot]

like I'm gonna spend time defining a moba and everything

[kindred vigil]

I enjoyed phantasy star, but, it's just, too overly monetized and to much fashion over gameplay

[full gazelle]

I've had that with a few different subjects

[scenic meteor]

assassins creed unity is the only game with actual bad game design i cant think of literally nothing worked in that game besides the overglazed parkour system

[kindred vigil]

pso2 og is great fun tho

[full gazelle]

MOBAs are technically annoying as fuck by design

[sonic swan]

play one of the giants like wow, ff14, or gw2. with friends, not solo

[kindred vigil]

idk about wow or ff14 i hate how ff14 plays

[stoic pivot]

yessir you get it (but not just annoying literally just bad design)

[haughty cradle]

How do you guys think this game will compare to arc raiders and delta force ?

[kindred vigil]

Delta Force is OUT this conversation that games a joke

[oak elbow]

Delta force sucks

[stoic pivot]

I think it'll be better than Arc, but less popular cause it's less casual

[sonic swan]

each game will succeed

this one will be for more pvp focused gamers

arc is for the uncs

[oak elbow]

THIS

[kindred vigil]

Arc is pve, Mara is pvp, delta is just, idk, gacha temu 2042 hazard zone

[full gazelle]

essentially forcing you to play the game, like you literally can't leave, is part of the design, yeah.

[stoic pivot]

not even that

[kindred vigil]

Delta Force fucking sucks idk how I was geeked on it for a cool 2 months 😭

[sonic swan]

green apple react that’s a first

[stoic pivot]

well yes that but that's not my main gripe, asking you to stay till the end is common courtesy

[scenic meteor]

i think leaving matches mid game should be penalized in all games tbh

[oak elbow]

I remember and u asked me why i didnt like it xD

[full gazelle]

but I still like dota toooo hehe

[haughty cradle]

I just gave up on delta force and arc looks boring

[stoic pivot]

I haven't played dota specifically because I played quite a few mobas before it and hated every one (my friend was trying to get me into mobas)

[sonic swan]

even for casual matchmaking?

[haughty cradle]

But I just stumbled upon this

[kindred vigil]

yes

[scenic meteor]

absolutely

[sonic swan]

for me i thought it should be reserved for ranked modes

[stoic pivot]

it's just basic manners, if you have a team and that team is relying on you to actually stay and help them win you should, because you wouldn't want them to do the same to you

[sonic swan]

yea but sometimes stuff happens irl

[kindred vigil]

hm I didn't think on this part

[oak elbow]

I really hope they add friendlyfire in marathon

[sonic swan]

i’d rather leave and let someone take my place than leave my team with an afk player

[scenic meteor]

sure but if thats the only time you leave you should be able to tank the occassional penalty

[stoic pivot]

in those cases obviously irl stuff takes priority but GENERALLY if what you would be leaving for is not urgent or personally distressing, you should stay

[full gazelle]

ah I get ya

[kindred vigil]

I think there should definitely be a quitters limit, like 5 times quitting and if ur overly doing it you get a little like 30 minute matchmake lockout or smth

[sonic swan]

that’s true. maybe the first time you leave is forgiven but if you continuously leave matches mid game the penalties will ramp up

[scenic meteor]

lowkey if you leave matches you should match make with players that leave the game at a same ratio as you

[kindred vigil]

like a quitters lobby?

[sonic swan]

they have that in some games i think

[full gazelle]

MOBAs should force you to stay regardless of which queue but I still find it to be the worst aspect of them

[kindred vigil]

yea I think there should be matchmaking that matches bad behavior of players similar bad behaviors to urs

[stoic pivot]

there's no way to FORCE people to stay, they can just turn off their device, what is the game gonna do about that? You just gotta penalize them after the fact

[oak elbow]

I think cod mwii ranked did that

[full gazelle]

well that's what I mean. but with league the penalty was pretty steep.

[kindred vigil]

you know what IP and hardware ban soon as you quit a match 💯

[stoic pivot]

but my main gripe with mobas is just enforced team separation and character power gaps combined with online matchmaking is just a recipe for disaster

[full gazelle]

Riot Mercenaries are approaching your location. Protect your knees.

[full gazelle]

oh my god

[kindred vigil]

Is enforced team seperations roles

[stoic pivot]

as in different lanes and such

[scenic meteor]

your encouraged to play with your team once the laning phase ends?

[kindred vigil]

Because that's the point of roles existing, and lanes, u work together to lock down lanes no?

[full gazelle]

worst thing for me was sitting on your tower for the entire game as island was essentially apart of the balancing every season

depending on your pick

horrible experience like it actually felt like working on your day off

[stoic pivot]

yes you are and it would be fine normally but keep in mind I also mentioned that it combined with character power gaps and online matchmaking. On it's own no one would be a big deal, all 3 make it a big deal

[kindred vigil]

Online matchmaking in what way just the game being online?

[sonic swan]

i’m pretty sure they added this in wow for mythic+ or at least it was an add on that showed a players leave rate

[full gazelle]

like yaaaay I have no means of countering you now I just get to sit here or riot will hurt me

[scenic meteor]

thats what the other players come into play for recognize bad match ups and help each other when possible

[stoic pivot]

you have no influence over the skill of your teammates

[kindred vigil]

Is that not online in general as the concept

[scenic meteor]

if im a jungler i can recognize what lane is gonna have the better advantage early due to their character picks and i can focus more support on the weaker side of the game

[stoic pivot]

like I said it's not a big problem on it's own, it's all 3

[kindred vigil]

I see

[full gazelle]

jungler is the only role I can play now, its just so much fun and I'm usually never stuck unless enemy jungler is especially good at invading. and even then you could build a counter and lock in.

I was always on top of my camps and objectives

[stoic pivot]

if you have enforced base character power difference (valorant for example has different characters, but they all have the same base so it's fine so this is kinda an inverse example) then you shouldn't have enforced separation AND random matchmaking, if you have enforced seperation you shouldn't have random matchmaking AND base character power difference, and so on

[oak elbow]

I like that tekken 5,6,7,8 has a disconnect % on the player before u agree to fight them

[full gazelle]

it blows my mind jungler is often in high demand in league queue like fuck yeah sign me up

[kindred vigil]

Ppl play Tekken still?

[scenic meteor]

its alot better now with faire? warding you can see majority of the jungle so you can counter invades alot better this season

[obsidian plover]

tekken taaaaag tourney

[oak elbow]

yes

[kindred vigil]

I thought Tekken comm said fuck 8 and just kinda stopped playing it

[full gazelle]

I don't play League anymore I actually don't respect Riot as a company at this point 🥀

[scenic meteor]

what does random matchmaking mean? league doesnt have that at all

[scenic meteor]

if you only play mid 9x out of 10 you are gonna play against someone who only plays mid

[sonic swan]

that’s sick

[stoic pivot]

it means you can't choose who is on your team, something basically every online game does nowadays but again not a big problem on its own, only when it's combined with the other 2

I guess "random" matchmaking is misleading but you get what I mean

[full gazelle]

Part of the reason I've stuck around for Bungie is even though there have been clear issues I can tell the Devs genuinely care about their games, even if I don't always agree with their decisions. The DCV was a horrible necessary evil for example.

[scenic meteor]

you cant choose who is on your team in any other multiplayer game tho

[kindred vigil]

You know I kinda wanna play paladins rn....💭

[stoic pivot]

did you read anything I just said

[scenic meteor]

i cant force neeyth to be a warlock

[stoic pivot]

ok again did you read what I just said

[full gazelle]

I randomly get an itch for a MOBA and I have no idea why

[sonic swan]

down horrendous

[kindred vigil]

yo who tryna 5 stack on paladins im using vora

[scenic meteor]

the other two "issues" dont relate with anything at all

[kindred vigil]

Wat a minute

[scenic meteor]

enforced seperation is just not true

[stoic pivot]

only when all 3 are combined, something most if not all mobas do (or at least the common version of mobas like league) become problems, as I've said several times already

[oak elbow]

*wait

[stoic pivot]

it literally is true

[kindred vigil]

🧠.......

Mobas have roles. Lanes. And towers to defend....

5v5 hero shooter games (i.e ow and marvel and paladins)

Have...roles..."lanes"...and ONE object to defend other than multiple

Are.......5v5 payload games a moba variation...💭

[scenic meteor]

it sounds like you want a overwatch or marvel rivals styled game which would be more your style

[stoic pivot]

no

[scenic meteor]

they have forced cooperation

[kindred vigil]

What would that mean

[oak elbow]

I think concord is his style

[full gazelle]

Fun fact Battleborn is playable now and is getting multiplayer servers, all from the community c:

[stoic pivot]

not enforced cooperation, even when separated you can cooperate

[full gazelle]

Fav first person MOBA

[kindred vigil]

respectfully no one playing that shit besides char gng

[scenic meteor]

so league?

[kindred vigil]

but we WILL be noting it

[scenic meteor]

even seperated at the beginning 10min of the game you can still cooperate

[full gazelle]

you out eatin paladins when there's perfectly good rivals tho

[kindred vigil]

I haven't played paladins since 2021 relax

[full gazelle]

oh wait bad

[stoic pivot]

yeah exactly. Cooperation is possible in league, but you are forced to separate in the early game which causes inevitable balancing issues WHEN COMBINED WITH random matchmaking and base power differences among characters

[full gazelle]

so rivals is game that has what are called marvel superheros

[stoic pivot]

and only when combined with them, because otherwise there are ways to balance it

[full gazelle]

it does NOT have the infinity gauntlet yet

[scenic meteor]

random matchmaking doesnt make any sense either what makes it random?

[kindred vigil]

idk what u talm about @rev this yo game

[full gazelle]

im memein because you forgot what the snap was gang lol 🩵

[crude bronze]

Scooby more like POOby

[kindred vigil]

+0.9

[stoic pivot]

again as I've said you cannot choose who is on your team- only the game chooses. You can load in as a 5, which is when the other two problems disappear. But when it's random you got problems

[sonic swan]

i love random match making

[stoic pivot]

well they don't disappear but they become MUCH MUCH less problematic

[kindred vigil]

Scooby is in his first in a while actual debate that's not memeing 👀🙏🍿

[full gazelle]

this isn't a statement but I've heard flex queue was a meme

[scenic meteor]

you can choose who is on your team tho there is a discord to 5 stack with or you can have 4 other friends

[stoic pivot]

he doesn't understand that the issues are interconnected and it's pissing me off lmao

[full gazelle]

wait I forgot about the tournament system

clash or whatever it was called

[scenic meteor]

but the interconnectedness holds no merit when none of them make sense

ur only real issue is the character balance

[stoic pivot]

discord is chill if you know the people on your team, same with friends. Again, if you read my answer, THEY ARE ONLY EVER A PROBLEM WHEN RANDOM MATCHMAKING IS AN ISSUE

[full gazelle]

oh shit it gettin kinda moba in here

/all D:

[kindred vigil]

You know......unreal tournament reboot 2016 wasn't bad at all...💭

[stoic pivot]

uh no I'm totally fine with base character power differences, but when you enforce team separation and the teams are randomly made it's a problem

[scenic meteor]

random matchmaking and "enforced seperation" just isnt true if you use your keyboard and actually SPEAK with your team

theres a reason mobas are more popular on pc

[full gazelle]

a battle of the gods ＼('o')／

[scenic meteor]

also the ping system literally designated to cooperate with your team

[kindred vigil]

Heroes of the storm 🙏👀

[full gazelle]

LMAOOO

holy fuck im actually dying

[stoic pivot]

random matchmaking means your team will not always listen, not always communicate, and whether or not they do, you still have a chance at winning, because one side has to win. That doesn't make it good game design. And you're assuming that just because you can cooperate with your team enforced separation is no longer a problem, but you're missing the idea that even with cooperation, separation is STILL a problem- but only when combined with the other 2 issues

[sonic swan]

gotta break out the spectacles for this one

[full gazelle]

got me reading through the ancient texts

[kindred vigil]

One piece ponaglyphs:

[full gazelle]

shits diabolical

[sonic swan]

i’m on scoobys side for this one ngl

[kindred vigil]

I just realized cleric is ur pfp trauma team faction from cyb77

[sonic swan]

indeed

[full gazelle]

im always on scoobs side

but I do feel like that dude singing the classical instrumental like buh duh duh duh duh buh duh duh duh dah

[kindred vigil]

I'm tryna read both sides n my head hurt lwk 😂✌️

[stoic pivot]

[sonic swan]

trauma team the only faction with more aura than maxtac

[kindred vigil]

I mean look at their sick armor

[full gazelle]

facts

[sonic swan]

they cooked on this one

[full gazelle]

2077 needed more faction play but im not hatin

[kindred vigil]

Military + medical or tactical + medical is always my favorite design types

But I like tactical design than anything else in general

[sonic swan]

you get me

[scenic meteor]

i cant wrap my head around random matchmaking and enforced seperation cause its just not there tho

[sonic swan]

that’s why i fw baptiste in ow

[scenic meteor]

and if you dont like rift they always have other game modes not everyone plays the Moba option you can play aram

its one big lane where you have forced cooperation

[full gazelle]

fucking facts, division 1 kinda played on this too and it was great

[kindred vigil]

truth bfg 9000

[full gazelle]

i miss twisted treeline :c

I'd relog league for treeline

[scenic meteor]

treeline was so peak

[wooden roost]

guys we won both games of chudlock

[full gazelle]

MUSTARD YOU BASTARD D:>

[wooden roost]

what she say fuck me for

[full gazelle]

you hit me the the granny dawg

[scenic meteor]

3v3 league was like heaven when i mostly 3 stacked in the game

[kindred vigil]

mustard.......but what's with the dusting part...💭

[wooden roost]

am i wrong doe

[full gazelle]

beyond peak it was so thematically cool too

[full gazelle]

...
no :c

[sonic swan]

akori typing up the old testament

[wooden roost]

its okay well all be your age someday maybe

[full gazelle]

holy shit bruh 💔

[full gazelle]

@stoic pivot its okay gang I support your passion I've been there gang

(I do gotta back up scoobs tho 👉👈)

[stoic pivot]

When you can't choose who is on your team, and when the other team can't either, you end up with inevitable team differences (natural, not a problem on its own). When you introduce base differences in character power to that (again, valorant characters are all different, but have the same base, so you know what I'm talking about) you have a situation in which both the players and the characters have inherent differences. Now even when THAT is combined, still not an issue because ordinarily players can always be by each other to cover for less skilled players/weaker characters (at the time, maybe they scale or something). The real issue comes in when you have enforced separation, because when you enforce that, even if you can cooperate the other two issues are exponentially exacerbated and unless you sacrifice other things to support skill/power gaps (which opens up FURTHER power gaps) the game can still be out of your control.

That's pretty much the basis of all this. When all three issues are combined, it is possible for you to have zero control over the outcome of the game. If that is EVER possible, it is bad game design

[full gazelle]

oh.

[kindred vigil]

oh my

[sonic swan]

good heavens

[stoic pivot]

wonderful

[sonic swan]

is it that serious

[stoic pivot]

I'm petty

[sonic swan]

if i was scoob id just forfeit im not reading allat

[kindred vigil]

nah Scooby a reader I be sending him paragraphs

[full gazelle]

holy lord jesus of nazareth, son of the father.

[stoic pivot]

I should also add that it is possible random matchmaking is just on your side, which obviously is great because who doesn't like having more skilled players on your team? But the zero control thing applies to the other team as well.

[sleek dust]

Do you all think marathon will be playable on a steam deck?

[sonic swan]

scooby the scholar

[stoic pivot]

idk

[stoic atlas]

hell no lmao

[scenic meteor]

but under your concept if even one of those issues dont exist its not a problem it all has to be combined and enforced seperation just isnt real
and if you were really bothered you can team up with another friend

[kindred vigil]

No cuz it's Linux handheld

[full gazelle]

lit about to say that

[full gazelle]

unfortunately no due to anticheat

[kindred vigil]

Those who don't rog ally X 💀

[sonic swan]

which anti cheat are they gonna use for marathon

[full gazelle]

Im tempted but I want more improvement on the Windows backend

[stoic pivot]

yes precisely if one of those issues does not exist, AS I'VE SAID A MILLION TIME AND YOU REFUSE TO READ THAT PART, it's not a problem

However, enforced separation is absolutely a thing and you need to stop saying that cooperation negates separation, which it only does TO AN EXTENT, and not fully, which still leads to issues

[kindred vigil]

rog is goated just don't buy it under the Xbox brand

[stoic pivot]

and so long as those issues mean it is even 1% possible for any individual player in the game to have no control over the game's outcome, it is bad game design

[scenic meteor]

league is more than one game mode if you dont believe in 3 lanes being good than play the one lane game mode

[kindred vigil]

also I'm p sure steaml deck can dual boot w windows and Linux no?

Idk, I'm not riche enough for these "PC handheld" devices so I don't Google em than much

[stoic pivot]

Yeah sure that's cool but I'm not talking about league specifically

[scenic meteor]

majority of mobas have one lane game modes

[kindred vigil]

Who tryna play fuse

[stoic pivot]

if you will refer to my post earlier

[sonic swan]

fuze from r6

[kindred vigil]

wrong one

[stoic pivot]

as I've said the common mode/version of a moba. Generally meaning separation via the use of lanes

[sonic swan]

who u play in r6 neeyth

[kindred vigil]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(video_game)

I think this game lwk forgotten nowadays

[scenic meteor]

most if not all mobas also have non seperation of lane game modes if you dont like it play the other game mode tho

ur only beef here is with the seperation game mode

[full gazelle]

im sure you could reimagine whatever its AMD x86 with a RADEON APU

[stoic pivot]

yeah that's cool and it was absolutely my favorite mode when I did play MOBAs. But can you also say it is not the primary supported game mode when it is the only mode that actually has ranked in most MOBAs? Like league for example.

[sonic swan]

these 2 will have this feud last until launch

[kindred vigil]

Uhm, when did I play I played:

ATK:
Ace, iana, nokk, hibana, fuze,

DEF:
Goyo, wamai, mozzie, warden, vigil, ela, smoke, doc(my most played op), and rook (my also most played)

[stoic pivot]

Single-lane modes do technically fall under the MOBA branch (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) but are generally not the primary, supported mode of MOBA games

[wooden roost]

autism sitting in this wood chair lwk meta

[full gazelle]

the beginning of a rivalry

[stoic pivot]

cat and dog (scooby dooby doo where are you)

[scenic meteor]

did u mainly play league when u did play mobas?

[sonic swan]

valid picks. some of these came out after i stopped playing tho so i can’t deep dive on em all

[full gazelle]

yea but you aint team cat tho

[stoic pivot]

no I just played whatever my friend was asking me to play cause he was trying to get me into MOBAs (I got him to play a bunch of games too)

[scenic meteor]

what Mobas

[sonic swan]

this is how clan/house rivalries started back in the days

[full gazelle]

lowkey facts

[stoic pivot]

I played league, there were 2 old console MOBAs that I played who I don't think succeeded (one was first person, I don't remember the other one very well), and one other that I remember the gameplay of but not the name

[kindred vigil]

Scooby archduke of house general the first

[wooden roost]

im house scoob 4 lyfe

[stoic pivot]

lemme try and find that one rq

[full gazelle]

im joining the death cult and extract camping terfs

[kindred vigil]

Ur camping tarrifs? (I misread mb)

[sonic swan]

the north remember house scoob

[scenic meteor]

cause league has very heavily enforced cooperation you will lose if you do not play with your team the team with more cooperation wins 100% of the time

[wooden roost]

not even close bro

[stoic pivot]

I know one of the console MOBAs (the first person one) was in beta when I played it

[full gazelle]

terf = extra annoying transphobe

[kindred vigil]

I saw T and rf at a glance so I thought I was looking at tariffs

[wooden roost]

hmm

[kindred vigil]

I know what a terf iz

[full gazelle]

vega tariffs 0% for allies and gays

[kindred vigil]

no taxes for me😂✌️

[stoic pivot]

first of all that is factually not true when combined with the other 2 issues, and cooperation is not enforced cause if you just get matchmade with some guy be they jungle, mid, support, whatever and they just refuse to communicate or listen, or even go out of their way to stay away from the team (this is admittedly occasionally to the team's benefit), you are not ENFORCING cooperation

[full gazelle]

anyone else wont be extracting (:

[scenic meteor]

the only old console mmos i can remember is paragon smite (whatever neeyth played) and battleborn

[full gazelle]

🩵

[wooden roost]

what about self hating gays

[kindred vigil]

Why is that cap react are you saying I'm homophobic

[stoic pivot]

I don't think the first person one ever made it out of Beta

[sonic swan]

paragon mentioned

[inland hatch]

battleborn was lowkey a banger. it deserved a good life

[wooden roost]

bloons mentioned

[scenic meteor]

battleborn is the only fps moba i heard about made by the borderlands team

[sonic swan]

ancient pulls

[kindred vigil]

This dude and his BLOONS game man pissing me OFF

[full gazelle]

I mean as long as they don't project it onto others, I'd just be sad for them and let them keep the loot. They need it more than me lol.

[inland hatch]

anyone remember Brink 👨‍💼

[sonic swan]

nay

[kindred vigil]

Unfortunately

[full gazelle]

its back gang

[wooden roost]

JUST PLAY IT YOU LOSER!!!!!!!!!

[kindred vigil]

yeah I got it for free but what if I like it and I can't make fun of you

[wooden roost]

we can hold hands and play together

[kindred vigil]

true

[full gazelle]

@inland hatch hope I brought good news

we're getting community ran multiplayer not too long from now

[kindred vigil]

is anyone else lowkeniunly interested in high guard now 😭

[full gazelle]

but a lot of offline stuff works now

[sonic swan]

not in the slightest

[wooden roost]

guys was it a misplay to leave my bass at home i think i fucked up

[kindred vigil]

Why did u leave a whole instrument

[wooden roost]

listening to tool and i yearn to learn

[wooden roost]

didnt wanna bother roommate but these walls are like 8 inches of concrete

[sonic swan]

are you incarcerated mustard

[wooden roost]

yeah

[sonic swan]

free him

[wooden roost]

dude basically the lights flicker before you turn them on they flicker and buzz for like 2 seconds

[full gazelle]

wtf who were you in your past life @wooden roost

[wooden roost]

my dad saw the place and kept laughing cause it was just like prison

[scenic meteor]

this is a community issue more so than a game design issue at that point which Moba communities do have prob top 5 worst communities of all time doesnt make it bad game design

[wooden roost]

james gandalfini

[full gazelle]

MOBA communities do be rancid lol

[sonic swan]

pitching, not catching

[kindred vigil]

😂😂

[wooden roost]

dont joy at me

[full gazelle]

bro remind me not to fw u damn

[kindred vigil]

posted ur comment on 9gag! 🤣

[wooden roost]

oh wait i forgor he was homophobic my fault

[full gazelle]

oh my fucking GOD

[stoic pivot]

it doesn't matter if they have the best communities of all time, there are people who simply do not wish to communicate with others nor listen to others and simply play the way they want without interference and happen to enjoy MOBAs so they'd rather play a game where cooperation is extremely important instead of one where it is somewhat less important

[scenic meteor]

im actually excited for highguard icl

[kindred vigil]

that was a tuff bar mustard +1

[wooden roost]

thank u

[full gazelle]

I meant like as a mafia type joke I didn't know that lol

[stoic pivot]

the idea that gamers of all people should be unconditionally communicative because it is to the team's best interest that they do is laughable at best

[kindred vigil]

Play wit me maybe 👀🙏

[inland hatch]

doubt it every time i hear “community is reviving x” it fails and dies

[wooden roost]

idk about irl but in the show hes hella homophobic

[full gazelle]

you can play it right now gang

[inland hatch]

wuuuuut

[full gazelle]

offline only tho

[wooden roost]

no were gonna play with the iother people that wanna play highguard

[full gazelle]

AND they got the Official Discord too!

[sonic swan]

we gotta kick him from our social club.

[kindred vigil]

my fault

[wooden roost]

worst launcher oat ref

[full gazelle]

tellin you battleborners winnin

[kindred vigil]

solo mines it is

[sonic swan]

battle brothers question mark

[full gazelle]

offline only though*

[inland hatch]

i just lost 2 kits in arc to my own stupid mistakes i’m never playing ever again

[kindred vigil]

Who playing offline battle orne bruh

[wooden roost]

can anyone teach me the begining bass riff to fourty six & 2

[full gazelle]

me once I buy a steam key c:

[sonic swan]

i’ll let em know boss

[kindred vigil]

-300 just pirate it

[stoic pivot]

don't like most major game devs not support linux

[full gazelle]

holy shit lol

[stoic pivot]

huh

[wooden roost]

its a good show tho u should wathc it

[kindred vigil]

Those who don't support Linux (they're evil residents )

[full gazelle]

I might have a huge media backlog though

[wooden roost]

man FAWK linux bro that shits lameeee

[sonic swan]

i’m such a casual idek what linux is fr

[kindred vigil]

I'm a Windows shil I be getting blinds

[full gazelle]

currently committing to learning all bo1 to bo7 zombies maps, marathon, hytale, jjk, and twin peaks rn

also learning java for mod dev

[scenic meteor]

the entire selling point of a Moba is cooperation if your not wanting to cooperate you are on the wrong game
this is why bungie stopped making raids they didnt know what the playerbase wanted

[full gazelle]

I'm a Mac shill 🥱

[wooden roost]

jesus all zombies maps is nuts

[kindred vigil]

U like Mac n cheese type shit

[sonic swan]

you telling me you guys don’t just boot up your pc with whatever is installed and use it 😟

[full gazelle]

yeah its a big endeavor lol

[wooden roost]

vega teach me ascension i hate that map but idk how to do anything

[stoic pivot]

so the entire basis of your argument is that people play games as intended? All the time? I think you're missing something bud

[scenic meteor]

if you get rid of the lanes its just a run it down simulator

[kindred vigil]

She's probably makjng a tier list

[sonic swan]

how are these two not bored yet

[stoic pivot]

I'm going all night

[kindred vigil]

Those who tier list I should do that more often

[wooden roost]

if de inst s tier imma cry

[scenic meteor]

i buy games for what purpose they are advertised to play them in yes

[kindred vigil]

That's NOT what she said hahahahaha!!!.....haha..🥀

[sonic swan]

i don’t think i’ve even argued politics irl this long

[wooden roost]

vega if u teach me ascension ill teach you dereisen drache and soe

[trim summit]

i’ve never been to oovoo java

[kindred vigil]

what is dereisen deache???

[sonic swan]

i get that reference

[wooden roost]

der eisen drache the bo3 dragon map

[full gazelle]

bet but I'm still learning mob, relearning giant, all the bo7 maps, etc.

[sonic swan]

just letting it be known i understood that

[kindred vigil]

Grorod krovi?

[full gazelle]

nah I just really fw zombies

[wooden roost]

chud map for lsoers (i only hate it cause the wipe step)

[full gazelle]

where is tim when I need him

[wooden roost]

dragon map with the bows

[kindred vigil]

Can cod maps stop using fucking German

[sonic swan]

nein

[kindred vigil]

Ohhh itsthe castle map

[full gazelle]

richtofen lowkey a queen now I fuckin love it

[stoic pivot]

and you are making an assumption that other people understand their preferences as well as you, and that in order to play a game they must play them as they are advertised, and that people are not capable of enjoying league if they do not communicate with others? Or is it just one or two of these? Or do you genuinely think that there are people who play MOBAs or other cooperation based games (like Arena FPS, for example) who will always act in the best interests of their team and not themselves?

[kindred vigil]

I never played any bo3 dlc map which one is good mustard

[wooden roost]

all of em

[kindred vigil]

ok well what would I buy frist if I wanted one

[wooden roost]

der eisen

[full gazelle]

^

[kindred vigil]

Thanks mate

[full gazelle]

giant is a good start

[wooden roost]

dont let brandon convince you to the ways of zetsubou its chudley

[kindred vigil]

Isn't that a remaster of a waw map that's a waste of money

[wooden roost]

yeah but thats just der reise

[full gazelle]

yeah but its straightforward and great solo or with friends

[wooden roost]

https://open.spotify.com/track/6v4pemwpkW7msCbBtSJf15?si=3d941c069d5e4a36 neeyth listen to this rq

[kindred vigil]

Okay mate

[scenic meteor]

if you play a game that is not how it is intended to be played i expect you to have a much shittier experience in any game ever

[wooden roost]

fo dat i usually play soe (its not striaght forward but ive been playing it for 12 years)

[stoic pivot]

arc raiders

[kindred vigil]

Soe is shadows of evil right

[full gazelle]

I really need to learn Shadows of Evil I tried it a loooong time ago and it was very pretty

[wooden roost]

neeyth if your listening to what i sent this is the peak of canadian funk

[kindred vigil]

those who zombie gun (idk what the soe ee/ww is)

[wooden roost]

dude its the best map ever but u need 4 players to do the ee 🥀

[kindred vigil]

I am I'm just putting in my earbuds

[stoic pivot]

do I really need to explain arc raiders to you scoob

[full gazelle]

I think there's a master mod that makes all EE soloable

[kindred vigil]

DUDE WHY IS the audio mainly in one ear omg I thought my headphones broke

[full gazelle]

I can link it

[wooden roost]

there is but i dont wanna beat it with a mod but i cant find 4 people

[kindred vigil]

mono music #old

[scenic meteor]

arc raiders has behavior based matchmaking so if your "point" is the dont shoot epidemic then its just not true if your an aggressive player you get matchmade with aggressive players

[wooden roost]

turn off stereo mang

[kindred vigil]

that made it better thanks mate

[full gazelle]

I'd play it with ya

[stoic pivot]

the idea is that they are defying the games purpose and having fun doing it, I don't consider it an epidemic but I do consider it an inversion of the game's intended purpose in which the players have found more fun

[wooden roost]

2 more @ brandon @ pedguib

[full gazelle]

BUT. Next college semester starts this Monday and Hytale drops 🥀

[kindred vigil]

gg

[wooden roost]

im already at college and my sem starts monday so i feel dat

[full gazelle]

Ima be so busy, but I will definitely try. I love Zombies.

[wooden roost]

i grew up with zombies so i already did all the maps almost

[kindred vigil]

if I can't run bo3 I'ma be so upset I wanna play peter griffin zombies

[full gazelle]

yeah im going full time and joining a club shits gunna be crazy

[wooden roost]

oo what kinda club

[kindred vigil]

Also mustard this song reminds me of fallout ost

[stoic pivot]

and on individual levels there are many players who have more fun playing games THEIR way even if they lose as a team. Take for example any hero fps literally ever where the majority of people just pick DPS characters and nothing else even though it would be optimal/good/beneficial for them to be supports or tanks

[wooden roost]

it is old but also vas

[full gazelle]

STEM Club I'm a nerd emoji 🥀

[wooden roost]

oh my fucking god bruh

[kindred vigil]

Dude akori and Scooby ain't even on the same topic anymore

[full gazelle]

loooool nooooooooo 😭

[wooden roost]

u a NERD nerd lmaoooo

[kindred vigil]

ultra nerd gg

[full gazelle]

im tryin to become a particle physicist :c

[kindred vigil]

it's ok I kinda wanna be an actuary if that helps

[wooden roost]

What the hell

[kindred vigil]

isn't that dealing with chemical reactions n shit

or wrong particle I'm thinking abt

[full gazelle]

particle accelerators, like CERN c:

[wooden roost]

those who neutron

[kindred vigil]

Jesus Christ godspeed to you brochacho 🙏😂

[full gazelle]

im gunna open the black hole that ends the world
||/j||

[wooden roost]

shoot an electron through the opps

[kindred vigil]

I think I'ma just do trade jobs lwk

[scenic meteor]

exceptions dont make a rule the majority of people who play outside the intended experience will have a worse time or in team based scenarios make their teammates have a worse time

[wooden roost]

yeah you dont need liek real education so hit the jobsite lil bro

[kindred vigil]

I'll be a plumber

[wooden roost]

dont

[kindred vigil]

But Mario ☹️

[wooden roost]

try to get into hvac or a service typa job(which is like plumbing but dont do plumbing)

[full gazelle]

im starting off as a high school physics teacher while I get my masters

so it'll be a fat min anyways

[kindred vigil]

goodluck

[wooden roost]

dude if i didnt spawn so poor id be a teacher

[kindred vigil]

Those who are just smart apparently

[wooden roost]

shortage of teachers yet no help to become one 💭

[kindred vigil]

That's a good point lol

[full gazelle]

does the country your in (ik where you at just dont wanna yk) have a FAFSA equivalent?

[wooden roost]

i would be such a good dei hire smh

[scenic meteor]

dont forget chatGPT+ (#joking) (maybe)

[kindred vigil]

maybe he says

[wooden roost]

yeah thats basically whats paying for my college cause im poor and native and ontario (the province im in) gives big bucks fo dat

[scenic meteor]

look sometimes chatGPT does explain topics way better than the teacher at times

[kindred vigil]

ur getting slimed scooby

[wooden roost]

did u askt he teacher

[stoic pivot]

Ok to address the idea that "their teammates have a worse time". They don't care. They just do not care about that. They are individuals playing a team game for themselves even though it's not how the game should be played, because IT IS FUN FOR THEM TO PLAY THAT WAY. The team is irrelevant to them.

Second, you say they are exceptions, but lets say I took 100 games of league of legends at every rank. 1000 players per rank, at each rank how many would you say are both communicating information and listening to information from their team?

[scenic meteor]

depends if they are a chud or not

[wooden roost]

🥀

[full gazelle]

does it not cover all of your undergrad tuition and textbooks? or just other life stuff.

[full gazelle]

holy fuckamoly D:

[wooden roost]

its covers like 7.6k of my stuff and i gotta pay like 9k total

[full gazelle]

ahhh fuck that sucks ass

[wooden roost]

yeah but what can ya do thats why we work and grind and such

[full gazelle]

true

im rootin for ya gang 🩵

[kindred vigil]

Vega

[stoic pivot]

Scooby is wrong, like objectively wrong, and I'm not stopping until he gives up on the conversation whether he says I'm right or not

[full gazelle]

whats up

[kindred vigil]

Have you peeped the jjk s3 op and it's song it's so FUCKING good 🙏

[wooden roost]

going to the best school for my program tho so thats sweet

[scenic meteor]

if im playing rivals and we all que dps IMO it wont be a fun game i would hope the other players feel the same

[stoic pivot]

it is 🔥

[full gazelle]

oh my god in front of my microwave burrito

[stoic pivot]

of course it won't be fun. How many of those people are going to switch off of dps?

[scenic meteor]

every match im in people will swap off if EVERY person is dps

[full gazelle]

its fucking disgustingly peak

[stoic pivot]

how many

[full gazelle]

like beyond peak

[kindred vigil]

It's been on repeat all day #newfixation

[full gazelle]

such genuine art

[scenic meteor]

does it matter ? people will swap off regardless because it will be a horrible game

[full gazelle]

I've already seen E1 and E2 with Execution so I'm just waiting until next week for E3

[kindred vigil]

I'm waiting for it to just fully all come out but I'm tempted

[full gazelle]

I heard they're releasing 1 episode per week

[kindred vigil]

Ai generation not topping jjk s3 ✌️😂

[full gazelle]

And its like a 26ish episode season

[wooden roost]

wait jjk s3 is coming out wtf

[kindred vigil]

Yeah it has 2 EPS out its op is so good mustard

[scenic meteor]

go play rivals for 10 hours and tell me how many dps only games you can manage to come across you can even encourage players in the chat it wont happen the game isnt designed for that

[wooden roost]

hmm ok (idgaf bout the music icl)

[full gazelle]

Fucking facts I will die happy if we finish JJK without a lick of AI. Gege and MAPPA wouldn't let that happen anyways.

[wooden roost]

im tearing up to dear mama rn i gotta lock in im such a fat fucking chud

[stoic pivot]

yes, it will be a horrible game, and there are people who will simply REFUSE to switch off of dps because they don't want to. It is irrational, it goes against the games intended purpose, and it is inherently human. You cannot fault the humans for what would be bad game design. Neither can you fault the game for what is human error. In Rival's case, if the entire lobby picks dps, well the game has no control over that. In league, you can have no control over what your teammates do or how they act or if they choose to tell you things or if they choose to listen to you. YOU CAN HAVE NO CONTROL AT ALL. Which is objectively bad game design

[kindred vigil]

Tap into the OP mustard

https://open.spotify.com/track/65X2koe1LhDgQmRkNdJFv9?si=hn4hcAFHRzykWZwUeIKY5A

[full gazelle]

^ yeah @wooden roost you gotta watch it's genuinely peak anime and shonen

[wooden roost]

i watched the other 2 parts of jjk and the prequel movie

[full gazelle]

animation is unbelievably good too

[scenic meteor]

so people picking something they shouldnt is a DESIGN issue or a COMMUNITY issue?

[stoic pivot]

I don't know what lobbies you play with but many, MANY people will not do what is best for the team if it is not what they personally want to do

[wooden roost]

jjks alright ig i like dragon ball more lowkeniuenly

[kindred vigil]

I get it

dbz lwk better but like jjk is awesome

[full gazelle]

haven't watched dragon ball except for a random movie but I respect the OG

[wooden roost]

nothing will ever be as hopecore as gohan cell fight

[kindred vigil]

True....

[stoic pivot]

people doing things that they should not do is a COMMUNITY issue, but if you have no control whatsoever as a result of their actions, then it is a GAME issue, because community issues must be accounted for in the design of the game.

[wooden roost]

add that onto the media pile for later consumption

[kindred vigil]

Prime tyler1 ssj3 scream oh mah gawd

[wooden roost]

we LOVE screaming shit is so aura

[full gazelle]

but we DO NOT need to pit two baddies against each other

[full gazelle]

fuckin facts lol

[kindred vigil]

goku lwk way more buff

[wooden roost]

he got that speed and motion

[kindred vigil]

He literally moves lightspeed

[full gazelle]

I didn't see that Mustard just something about Gojo lol

[wooden roost]

im not repeating it it was freaked out lwk

[full gazelle]

ftr I love satoru for satoru not satoru for strength. their strength doesn't even matter.

[kindred vigil]

calling him by his first name #glaze

[wooden roost]

wait i thoguht that was his first nam

[kindred vigil]

it is I'm stupid

[full gazelle]

Gojo last Satoru first.

[wooden roost]

ok i thought it was like japanese has the last name first

neeyth ts sucks

[kindred vigil]

🥀🥀

It's okay just not ur type

[full gazelle]

but yeah absolutely satoru is wonderful

[kindred vigil]

he's a good character than most don't realize yea

[wooden roost]

need more screaming and snare bombs fr

[kindred vigil]

true.....I don't like how it gets melancholy in the second half

[wooden roost]

y hasnt bat country been an anime opening yet

[kindred vigil]

what is bat country

[full gazelle]

they are and many hyperfixate on their strength

[wooden roost]

https://open.spotify.com/track/3sHH7lklbfpcraDDvYnjo7?si=9c96a39a5e174842 glad you asked, only the best song ever

greatest intro to any metal song ever

[kindred vigil]

oh it's seven fold

[full gazelle]

they are very important to me, not just a weird god complex

[wooden roost]

the rev my beloved

[full gazelle]

anyway I gtg girlies

[wooden roost]

adios

[kindred vigil]

good ye

[stoic pivot]

bye

[full gazelle]

baaaaaai ^w^ 🩵

[scenic meteor]

Developers cannot force a community to play a game their intended way if it already fits the parameters there is nothing any Moba could do to make the game more cooperative to your expectations its literally not possible unless Mobas become China and start limiting everything

[scenic meteor]

goodnight

[kindred vigil]

dude it's been almost a hour god daaaaamn

[scenic meteor]

im making a playlist i can multitask

[wooden roost]

can i see the playlist

[stoic pivot]

No, they cannot, but the design of the game inherently ignores the idea that players will ignore its own intended play patterns and purpose. The design of the game does not counter player abberation to a point where it is never possible for an individual to have 0% control over the outcome of a game, and that is where MOBA design fails. Its core design allows for circumstances where people have no control, and that is bad core game design

[scenic meteor]

when its done maybe

[kindred vigil]

He's making a emo playlist

[sour cairn]

is this game transgender

[wooden roost]

sometimes

[kindred vigil]

maybe

[stoic pivot]

potentially

[scenic meteor]

you must not play mobas cause you have more control in that game over 99% of games nowadays

[stoic pivot]

you wanna specify what game you're talking about? I assume league but wanna make sure before I actually say something

[scenic meteor]

i can counterpick the enemy i can counter build the enemy i can change lanes with my teams if i can fit another match up better doesnt have to be league this is every moba

[scenic meteor]

and League fits the game design of a MOBA if they change to adhere to whatever your design would be better it would make it anything that isnt a moba

[kindred vigil]

I mean his song is called crank not him cranking

[stoic pivot]

true, you have control over your individual actions, which makes random matchmaking and base character power differences not as big an issue. When enforced separation enters the picture, there are inevitably circumstances when something in the game goes wrong enough that you individually no longer have agency enough to influence the outcome of the game. This is not about league specifically, but about the fact that the core MOBA game design as I've specified it is inherently flawed

there is no such thing as a perfect game but so long as a game never EVER creates a circumstance where you have no control over the outcome of the game, the CORE DESIGN hasn't failed (in the PURPOSE department. Fun is a different issue)

[scenic meteor]

again tho a Moba isnt designed for you to have agency to SOLO the game there are 4 other players expected to help you

[kindred vigil]

oh my God paragraph paradise

[scenic meteor]

there is nothing in Mobas that support enforced seperation in the SLIGHTEST and random matchmaking isnt real its just matchmaking

[stoic pivot]

you don't need to be able to solo the game, you just need to be able to have individual agency enough to actually have control over the outcome of the game.

[worn knoll]

I'm (kinda re) playing halo CE and does anyone else get mad that Master Chief doesn't just. Talk to people. "What's going on? Chief, what should I do" - chief just shoots some stuff and vanishes. "Chief? Where are you, what are these things?" - not a word. 343 guilty spark specifically wonders aloud many things Chief could answer and he's just dead silent.

[kindred vigil]

yeah I think he was originally supposed to be a silent protag

[worn knoll]

I get he's stoic but he can't have gotten this far without communicating for fuck's sake

[kindred vigil]

I mean he doesn't really talk in-game for a lot of games only cutscenes really

[worn knoll]

say a word to these people who are asking you questions. an apparently FRIENDLY ALIEN INTELLIGENCE THAT COULD HELP YOU WIN THIS WAR FOR ALL YOU KNOW is asking you shit and you're just like "hm ok I'll keep shooting."

[worn knoll]

I think he has like 3 voice lines in the levels.

of CE at least.

[kindred vigil]

I wouldn't know I hate halo ce! 😂

[scenic meteor]

who is master chiefs va

[wooden roost]

read or listen to the flood and you find out what hes thinking

[kindred vigil]

Me

[stoic pivot]

There is and you are coping. Would you suggest that it is ideal to simply abandon the top and bottom lane and have everyone in middle? It's true that there's nothing necessarily stopping you, but most MOBAs go out of their way to assign you to a lane specifically, and it's very easily counterable even in the early game. The MOBA itself tells you "this is how you play the game" and since you've made an entire argument that people should play the game via its intended purpose, surely you would disagree that games which clearly indicate that players should have assigned lanes shouldn't go to said lanes, and thereby the game is enforcing the team to separate at least in the early game?

[wooden roost]

steve downes

[worn knoll]

In the marathon server spreading hate for marathon 4 and you think you're not going to wind up tied to a cartoon anvil and tossed into the sea 🙂‍↔️

[kindred vigil]

what

[wooden roost]

trvke

[kindred vigil]

cartoon ass scenario 😭

[worn knoll]

cartoon anvil, sea, you

what is there to be confused about

[kindred vigil]

I'm not the known thinker

[stoic pivot]

and also as I stated earlier, I understand "random" matchmaking as I'm using it is misleading but I've clearly stated what I intended by it, which if you mean to say that by my own definition is not something that MOBAs do, I would say that you are clearly drunk

[kindred vigil]

I listen to yeat breathe and aura farm on helldiver's 2

[worn knoll]

anyway playing Halo CE after Marathon 2 is like so crazy what the fuck do you mean they jumped that far in 6 years what it's like the same damn game but it's also 10000x more advanced it's so crazy what bungie was up to back then

[scenic meteor]

your own definition leads everygame to have random matchmaking which is just matchmaking by your logic Trials of Osiris is the worst gamemode of all time

[kindred vigil]

yk I've been looking at helldiver's 2 gameplay and the graphics lwk ugly

Why is everything so washed and muted and has a weird like, tint, of green on some.maps

[worn knoll]

also I realized, there's a lot of people going "why is bungie so hung up on the story of this game? no one plays extraction shooters for the story, why would they even try?" and it's literally just marathon 1 again. Competing with a bunch of games that think story is a secondary feature no one actually gives a shit about by telling a rich and well thought out story in a genre no one thinks needs one.

everyone going "no one plays these games for the story idk why bungie thinks that's special" would've literally said the same thing about marathon 1

[kindred vigil]

🦉 is saying that

[scenic meteor]

and Mobas are an Arena game intended in the original mode so its expected to have a map which is usually divided by lanes with a jungle in the middle you are expected to cooperate with your team to defend your side of the arena at all cost to win the game and that is exactly what league does and 99% of mobas

[worn knoll]

I was specifically thinking of Luke Stephens but a good few reviewers/streamers and as with any take a bunch of redditors and other social media users

[stoic pivot]

yes, as I've admitted it already, that is exactly true. Every online matchmade game has random matchmaking in that you do not get to choose your own team. And as I have stated, that alone is not an issue, because that alone has ways to counterbalance it as an issue, and it only becomes something unbalancable when combined with the other 2 issues I have brought up. And no, I do not have an inherent issue with random matchmaking, ONLY when it is combined with the other two issues, so to say that I think Trials of Osiris is the worst gamemode of all time is simply putting words in my mouth, which I would say if you continue to do so is a clear indicator of losing your grip on this argument

[worn knoll]

time is a flat circle

[kindred vigil]

I mean I kinda on the side that this games gameplay matters a bit more than whatever story they got going on if the game ain't good why would I. Give a HOOT about the story

[worn knoll]

and bungie knew it from the beginning bc all their games are in some convoluted way about a time loop

[stoic pivot]

Yes, that is what is expected. I am claiming that that mode is inherently unbalancable and poor game design.

[scenic meteor]

random matchmaking isnt a design problem its a you got no friends problem you can easily make friends in whatever match you are in with league ill play with someone that does a good job and ask if they want to matchmake together

[kindred vigil]

Like 90% of the game story is gonna be terminals and some grimoire type stuff, and the rest will be season cinematics so it's gonna be heavily optional anyway

[stoic pivot]

Indeed I can, and in that case the issues I have with the game are solved. However, MOBAs still offer random matchmaking as a feature and thus it is intended for the game, and under the games core design leads to circumstances where players can have zero control, which means the game is poorly designed, as I've been arguing.

[scenic meteor]

its a team game you are expected to cooperate there is nothing the suggests you are not cooperating in the game just because you split up for 10min at the start does NOT mean you split up the ENTIRE game as their is a jungler LURKing at all times

[stoic pivot]

Except cooperation does not completely negate separation, as I've argued

[scenic meteor]

but it does

if i cooperate i am not alone

[bitter canopy]

Solo queue

[worn knoll]

I mean, yes obviously the game can't be absolute garbage and the story still matter. But I guarantee if I looked hard enough I could find a review of marathon 1 that says this basically word for word. They're doing exactly the same thing they did with marathon 1. Taking a genre where story is an afterthought and putting it at the forefront. I wonder if they even know, if they've even drawn that connection amongst themselves.

[stoic pivot]

Then prove that cooperation will completely negate separation, which you have stated but not proven. And for the record, separation is about physical separation in the game world, not about whether you are actively communicating and listening to your team, which constitutes cooperation, making them very different concepts

[scenic meteor]

just because you are alone on a lane for 10min does not mean you are alone the entire game at all you have 4 other team mates you can strategize with

[kindred vigil]

I mean the story is a marketing attention grabber for sure considering ppl liked the cinematic alot

[fringe acorn]

We aare so close

i needd marton

[scenic meteor]

if my Top laner is losing i can gank in the first 3min of the game is he alone?

[kindred vigil]

but like lwk sorry for the lore fans but I kinda hope they don't overdo lore or smth in exchange for some gameplay stuff

[scenic meteor]

if my bottom lane is getting pushed under tower can my mid rotate to go make the fight a 3v2

[worn knoll]

I don't know how you would exchange gameplay for lore. I'm not sure how that works. Do the writers and the balance team have a lot of crossover? The voice actors also work on new weapons? Or what.

[scenic meteor]

if grubs spawns at 5min can my top laner rotate down to make assist the jungler with capturing the objective

[kindred vigil]

As in I don't want "oh that's not lore accurate" so it doesn't get put into gameplay type shi, I know some games like lore accuracy in gameplay is what I mean

[worn knoll]

Anywho, the point is this game is doing exactly what marathon 1 did, and the people upset about that probably would've had a problem with the original too, which is funny to me

[bitter canopy]

Gameplay has always been pretty first in the lore of Bungie games

[scenic meteor]

if ur bad at 1v1 in lanes just say dat

[worn knoll]

That feels like a very niche situation. What would be made in the lore that would be useful or fun in gameplay but then also kept out.

[kindred vigil]

I know that but I just hope there's no "that's not canon" type overlap stuff but I don't want also like things like skins or art style shifts to ruin the canon

[scenic meteor]

cause anybody else on your team can change your lane to have a different opponent or you can ask the jungler for a gank it will change the game tenfold

that is literally cooperation nothing is seperated

[bitter canopy]

Like crossovers and stuff?

[kindred vigil]

but like, I don't want the lore to dictate the gameplay is what I mean I know that's a niche situation but it has happened few times

[worn knoll]

I mean like. Yeah the game has to adhere to its world. But that applies to any game with a setting. Like a star wars game isn't gonna have a star trek phaser in it. If suddenly a banana that shoots bullets was made a regular weapon in Chivalry people would be a little confused.

The worlds and story don't hold back gameplay, they create it

[kindred vigil]

socrates

[scenic meteor]

Neeyth when do u get wifi

[kindred vigil]

cause like I've seen it in siege, alot of the lore changing the game and low-key how it works in general, and overall becoming a total ass fest to play

like why did we go from counter terro squad to sports games ??? Then said sports games are in gameplay sometimes but that again is a niche ass situation

[worn knoll]

I mean yeah if it was just anything goes sure we could have whatever, but it wouldn't be a coherent game. So we built an environment, a setting and theme, and create the game up from that. This was a video game series first, with minimal other media dictating how its world functions, so it's really not a situation in which story could alter gameplay in a negative way.

[kindred vigil]

I think I just said a extreme confusing way to say I don't want esports or any lore or tone shift being dictated by competitive shit and being put into the game

[worn knoll]

I mean that's. Just bad writing. And it's based on a book setting so it's just kinda weird.

[worn knoll]

OH You don't want gameplay to influence story, therefore influencing gameplay, you don't want a feedback loop?

[bitter canopy]

If anything (outside of destiny crossovers) if anything Bungie overrides lore with gameplay

[worn knoll]

Yeah bungie lore is built to tell a story within a game, never to make a game about a story

[kindred vigil]

To the point the og game is like, gone? Like the overall vibe and tone, and reasons, and even weapon philosophies r just not there as it used to be

Like there used to be RULES within siege and it's map designs and stuff now that the lore is this weird drama competitive fest canonically, it does whatever the fuck?

[bitter canopy]

That was a nice typo just gonna have it in tbh

[worn knoll]

Yeah that's a weird ass situation that relies more on catering to a kind of player than it does the story affecting gameplay, as the story there was more made to excuse the new gameplay direction.

[stoic pivot]

And under random matchmaking where other players may refuse to cooperate or strategize or may simply refuse to play the game in its intended way, it may be out of your control. Or if you are unable to gank your top laner in the situation you've specified, or if your game state in some way is inherently out of your control as a result of the players OR the game, it may be out of your control.

Or if you are in any way shape or form in a situation where other players cannot or WILL not assist where assistance is necessary, or if other players are in situations where assistance is necessary but cannot or WILL not be provided by their team, it is simply out of your control completely.

If you are arguing that there is never a circumstance in the game where having zero influence over its outcome is possible, then you are categorically and factually wrong.

You claim that the game should not be faulted for the actions of players, and that players should adapt to the game, which under proper circumstances is fair. However, if because of the game's core design, control of the game is impossible for any individual player on the game world, then the game's core design is flawed. You seem to think that an idealistic and best-case-scenario situation in which you are capable of control is an adequate counter to the situations in which you have no control, which it is not, because that is inherently contradictory. You should be arguing under the worst case scenario, in which it is not possible for you to provide support, nor for your teammates to be capable nor willing to provide support, because that is a scenario in which I claim you have no control. You refuse to do so and in so doing ignore my core argument.

[kindred vigil]

yeah that's what I was trying to get at idk why I made it so confusing and initially hostile I'm sorry lol

[stoic pivot]

by the way that would have been longer but I reached the character limit

[worn knoll]

I love not being poor

[stoic pivot]

do you ever use that feature

[kindred vigil]

lwk I don't think Scooby reading allat wtf

[worn knoll]

Oh of course I do. Check what I put in the other Karnemir discord when someone brought up halo and marathon:

A lot of Halo is marathon repackaged. So much so that I find it odd there's people who deny that it was meant to be set in the marathon universe before microsoft got it.

The lore in the first game is perfectly coherent with Marathon's lore, if you change around some names and looks. Forerunners are Jjaro, UNSC is UESC, these are obvious. Covenant are Pfhor. Staves to swords. Huragok are functionally the S'pht, the Sharqoi hulks. I mean, hunters even have the same name (albeit were merged with hulks a bit).

There's obviously marathon symbols everywhere, as there always would be from this point on. And I need not mention Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durandal. Actually so hype 343 named the new AI Joyeuse, even without Bungie the Bungie mythos cannot be revoked.

There's several cross-over weapons, more if you count "in spirit." The magnum is just the same goddamn magnum, even having the scope usable now. The rocket launcher is identical, even still being called the SPNKr.

The plasma pistol is a fusion pistol exactly, the assault rifle has the same spread and general shape, as well as a similar name, the plasma rifle functions similarly to m2's alien rifle, one could easily say that the energy sword was a fulfillment of the key art showing you stealing Pfhor staves in m2.

It of course ported shields over with an added health system, including having up to 3 layers of shield as overshield. Invented them. Think about that, shields are just a mechanic games can have now because of Marathon.

The Bungie Mythos started with Pathways, and never left. Everything always tells the same types of stories, imbued with the same aspects. Eternal Heroes, time as a construct, loops so large no one could ever see the whole, death and the drive to escape it, intelligence and the meaning of knowing everything, the end of your world. Different names. Different faces. Different Worlds. But the Myth lives on.

This is why I've rarely been afraid that the story of the new Marathon will be unfaithful - because Bungie never stopped writing for Marathon. It's all the same. Halo, Destiny, it doesn't matter the name it takes. We've done this all before. We will do it again. Into Darkness once more.

...EXCELERAIDER

Yapping is my passion

[stoic pivot]

well I invited that I guess but does copypasta really count

[kindred vigil]

oh my gott

[bitter canopy]

Is that not a part of the game though? Like im actually engaging with your argument

[worn knoll]

I mean, I'm copy-pasting my own words.

It was more proof that I use it, less me using it actively

[kindred vigil]

can I get a tldr lwk

[stoic pivot]

it is a part of the game, and I'm arguing that the game's core design is inherently flawed. Because it is possible for situations in which you have no control, I argue that the MOBAs are inherently bad game design

[proven kernel]

I am not an AI used to summarize things.

[kindred vigil]

then what am I paying 200$ for ur premium for!!

[stoic pivot]

MOBAs create situations in which players can't have any control whatsoever over the game's outcome and that means MOBAs are poorly designed

[cyan bridge]

i am

[proven kernel]

Wait... WHERE IS THIS MONEY GOING!?

[cyan bridge]

74k sweet potatoes

[bitter canopy]

If it is the intended experience is it poor game design? Because you could say that about literally anything muliplayer

[proven kernel]

Ok, that tracks because I love sweet potato.

[kindred vigil]

🤫

[cyan bridge]

❤️

[worn knoll]

TL;DR: Halo and Marathon are alike primarily because Halo CE was a Marathon game (or at least set in the marathon universe, the name was still gonna be Halo) before meincrosoft came in and asked them to strip it all because marathon was a game for the mac. Also because bungie always tells the same story, ever since their first first-person game, Pathways into Darkness, themes keep repeating over and over again

This is why I've rarely been afraid that the story of the new Marathon will be unfaithful - because Bungie never stopped writing for Marathon. It's all the same. Halo, Destiny, it doesn't matter the name it takes. We've done this all before. We will do it again. Into Darkness once more.

...EXCELERAIDER

[kindred vigil]

wait the same point since the start of this

[proven kernel]

I should make sweet potato fries....

[cyan bridge]

theyre bussing trust me

[proven kernel]

Oh I know.

[stoic pivot]

Just because it's the intended experience, doesn't mean it's not poor design. And other matchmade games still give you some level of control, even if it's not 100%.

[kindred vigil]

I hate sweet potato fries

[proven kernel]

You hate most things.

[kindred vigil]

True....