🗣marathon-general-chat

[silk spade]

To help with the game design

[cold stump]

they also completely remade how trials of osiris works

[restive lily]

They said that's not an option until they remove that work from the game. Otherwise it would be a scapegoat.

But they are interested in working with that artist from the beginning

[cold stump]

led to one weekend with crap loads of activity but once the reward changed to regular scheduled programming it died back down

[surreal nova]

I really liked Elden Ring PvP except for the terrible networking. The memes were also hilarious. A guy named Will Smith invaded me, walked up to me slowly, punched me once, used barbaric shout, and slowly walked back

[unborn badger]

what do you think's gonna happen if legal processes blocks their compensation proposal or prevents them from hiring anti after they spoke out about definitive action of such and then getting cockblocked by policies lol

[rugged frost]

damn what a flop this game was, goodbye. time for wait for ark raiders

[cursive needle]

its also getting changed again soon, i think special ammo meter is coming back + other changes. But TLDR, PVE/PVP are untangled, now seperated for weapon balancing, all weapons got reworked, all archetypes got reworked, trials got completely reworked aswell so you can go to the lighthouse w/o flawless.

So much stuff man i dont even know where to begin or how to explain it

[unborn badger]

half-assed statements are all we can get cuz that's what they're also gonna have to settle with

[neat niche]

true that first week of the rework was nice, if trials could just hold that population all the time it would be great

[frail sphinx]

They shoulda started with that but it's all really up to the artist whether they sign on to that kind of offer, and if I were her, I wouldn't

[cold stump]

were you playing on pc? easy anti-cheat essentially doubles the latency with you ahve with other ppl

[surreal nova]

Is this it? https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/heresy_crucible_updates

[cold stump]

the reward just has to be juicy, they should put the solar area denial frame in trials

[silk spade]

Damn well looks like this game is gonna go down the drain

[neat niche]

realll

[cold stump]

THATLL get ppl playing

[restive lily]

I get the feeling that the trials hype will never come back to what it was. Not alot of new gamers on the hype train for ball crushing pvp in a game with 2000+ guns

[silk spade]

Cause this might fuck it all up for bungie

[cursive needle]

That's one of the 11 reworks that have been done in 2025, yes. But there's more. There's a really big one where they uncoupled pvp and pve

[unborn badger]

no I'd rather you read and make your own judgements

[neat niche]

i mean they reprised the slug but it got caught inbetween rite of the nine stuff so no one really cared 😭

[unborn badger]

cuz it don't feel like you read imma be real 😭

[cold stump]

cold comfort sweep

[clear sequoia]

Hiring the artist seems like overkill.

[unborn badger]

nah

best case scenario honestly but I appreciate integrity in scrubbing all assets

still a big fuck up but salvageable

[surreal nova]

See, all that is cool, but I mean like…new maps, new cool little modes, faster and better balancing changes, and some way by which I can earn raid tokens so I don’t have to pve for the best gear is what I want

[frail sphinx]

You cant just buy someone after stealing from them

[unborn badger]

I'm gonna get called a shill for this 💔

[surreal nova]

Doubles?? Yikes

[cursive needle]

Yep. All this has been addressed as well. You missed alot xD

[restive lily]

Sure you can

[surreal nova]

Damn dude. I might need to get back into Destiny WTF

[restive lily]

It's just not appropriate

[frail sphinx]

Someone with even a shred of integrity i mean

[clear sequoia]

And they don’t need her to have that style. Just remove her specific work.

[neat niche]

its not really ball crushing pvp anymore though, especially if the reward is nice enough some people will be more than happy for a little ball crushing and ofc the best ball crushers will be there because they have been for the past 10 yeats every weekend

[cold stump]

if you play on seamless coop the connection is MUCH better and even lets you individually see the ping of ppl when you lock onto them

[surreal nova]

No doubt about it, I’m ready to be hurt again

[unborn badger]

see that one guy go completely quiet once we actually get into d2 pvp talk is pretty telling 🤭

[cursive needle]

just download it and go into crucible for a few games, try it out. See if you like it before you get back into it, because I find PVP alot better now, but alot of other people dont like the changes and prefer how it used to be

[frail sphinx]

Exactly. They'd have to back to the drawing board since the whole game was just that but still

[silk spade]

If they dont settle with the artist. They are going to have to change almost the whole look of the game. The game is already getting so much hate just cause its a extractshooter thats most likely going to have lots of transactions in the game just like COD and Fortnite. But besides that the whole design may have to be changed if the situation doesnt go well

[surreal nova]

Why is there so much ball crushing here

[neat niche]

there proportionally less i think

[cold stump]

gamers yearn for ball crushing pvp

[unborn badger]

gang it's assets not aesthetic you don't steal an aesthetic I'm mourning with the 13 remaining wipeout fans rn

[restive lily]

I've enjoyed running it for the keen thistle, great sniper. The mode has improved alot, I just don't think the people playing the game now are that same community that used to love trials.

Anything is possible tho and I would like to see it revived in the coming expansions.

[acoustic zephyr]

yo

[surreal nova]

Yeah I believe I shall. Thanks bud, appreciate the heads up.

[frail sphinx]

Arc Raiders being Free to Play pretty much sealed the deal for me

[acoustic zephyr]

we still lost gif perms?

[unborn badger]

and focus on the convo microtransaction's a whole other can of worms

[cold stump]

100% chance its not

going ftp will kill arc raiders exactly like how it killed cycle

[unborn badger]

don't get me wrong I hate eververse as well but what are any of us gonna do about it

[cursive needle]

Careful what you ask for though. The 2 newest maps we got were HUGE, UGLY, and UNFUN. You gotta be specific when asking for new maps i guess. Otherwise we get the worst things imaginable.

[frail sphinx]

Thought i read somewhere it was supposed to be free guess I was wrong

[restive lily]

The decals will need to be removed, but antireal certainly doesn't own this art style.

Been around for a while and Joe cross (art director) seems to have a longer run with it than antireal.

It's unfortunate to see that this art style may become off limits tho.

[unborn badger]

vectorheart fans 6 feet deep in the mud rn including me 💔

[surreal nova]

I quite enjoyed the Lightfall maps tbh. Are those still the newest?

[cold stump]

extraction shooters should never be ftp because it means cheaters have no entry feee

[clear sequoia]

only a handful were confirmed to be taken, yeah; the accusations re: overall style are almost definitely wrong, Joseph Cross has portfolio pieces pre-dating the antireal stuff

[cursive needle]

imagine saying someone can own a thought.

[unborn badger]

just cuz some former artist fucked up tryna make a game for one of the most bandwagon hated companies of all time cuz the community's mostly morons and blind and deaf and illiterate

[cursive needle]

no there's a witch queen map and a nezarek map, i forget the names. Massively huge and unfun maps tho

[frail sphinx]

True

[cold stump]

the 3 maps we got are really good wdym

[neat niche]

there was three after i think? unless you remember a neomuna, europa and another one

[cold stump]

the neomuna shopping center is my favorite pvp map

[neat niche]

yeah i really like the europa one

[unborn badger]

the neomuna one ain't bad and I liked the vexnet one

[surreal nova]

Yeah those are the ones I remember. The last one was a hive themed one

[summer apex]

Seeing the success of Helldiver, I think people are more willing to spend €40 on a solid PVE experience than on a PVP game where you are forced to play with two other people.

[cursive needle]

Im talking specifically about the WQ & Nezzy maps. Those are way too big to the point of them being a walking simulator unless you run straight down the middle.

[surreal nova]

But it’s crazy there haven’t been new maps since that? That shit was a long time ago

[neat niche]

agree

[cold stump]

helldivers has its own issues with that

[unborn badger]

plus you can literally solo queue

[neat niche]

and the stakes are much lower to my understanding

ive never played it..

[cold stump]

i think its been exactly a year

[surreal nova]

The Europa map is one of my fav in the game

The Lightfall one is okay in 3s

[cursive needle]

They came out in final shape right?

[cold stump]

right before tfs with into the light

[unborn badger]

love how they brought back the mars map speaking as a scout and sniper fan

[cursive needle]

Yeah yeah that's right.

[unborn badger]

kept my servant leader from 2-3 years ago lol

[cursive needle]

SPEAKING OF, Why didn't we get pvp maps for this years-send off event? ROTN truly isn't on Pantheons level at all. ROTN is Temu Pantheon. Disgusting.

[surreal nova]

It feels so much longer. I feel like I haven’t touched Destiny for half a decade

[low ledge]

u should tap in, the new nine gamemode is pretty fun imo

[cold stump]

as a fellow rapid fire scout super fan.... let go of your servant leader man 😭

unworthy and fang of ir yut are so much better

[cursive needle]

I'm gonna make all the D2 players mad
I got a adept holofoil cold comfort with quick+impact+env+b&s+handling mw. Fiteme

[neat niche]

is unworthy good? what do you use on it

[cold stump]

ok i have that but with timelost mag

[cold stump]

keep away precision instrument is a monster on it its my favorite scout

[cursive needle]

i have an adept hezens aswell with the same roll xD

[unborn badger]

wow very fair of you to compare a raid boss run event to rotating soloable dungeons and letting casuals run it on explorer mode

[frail sphinx]

I'm so angry rn I'm gonna explode!!!!!!!! (Never played D2)

[surreal nova]

Yeah I already commanded my Xbox to DL it. I hope I get back into it, d2 PvP just feels so good when it works.

[low ledge]

rnjesus

[surreal nova]

Also tofu is delicious. I hope you’re not the guy I met on Xbox who named himself tofu ironically cause he hates it

[cold stump]

i agree we shouldve gotten pvp maps but for rotn keep in mind that it also introduced an easy mode as opposed to only hard modes

[cursive needle]

It is a fair comparison when Bungie themselves made the comparison to begin with... What are you even arguing against lmfao

[low ledge]

realll

[neat niche]

ill have to try and get one, i like fast firing scouts but none have felt good for a while

[cold stump]

its origin trait gives it flinch resist in pvp it does NOT move

[low ledge]

no unfortunately im the guy on playsation who never had tofu ever

[unborn badger]

comparison being it's a celebration not the scale of it which you actively focus on and be a doomer about when there's nothing to doom at

[cursive needle]

I know. I do think explorer mode is great for learning the dungeons. I think its honestly the 2nd best part of ROTN, #1 is definitely the fun factor of contest on demand.

[surreal nova]

Aisha’s is really good. So is Randy’s, but you need stability build

[cold stump]

exactly what we're getting in edge of fate

[surreal nova]

What’s the lore behind the name?

[unborn badger]

but oh no it's so disgusting they ran dungeons instead of pantheon again!!!

[low ledge]

its my initials

[neat niche]

have tried randys and yeah it just has a bit too much recoil for me x3

[cursive needle]

Oh you mean I should be happy with underdelivery? I shouldn't have expected a Dungeon-Pantheon instead of a Raid Pantheon, when Bungie said that's what we were getting? OH I DIDN'T KNOW. PLEASE TELL ME HOW I SHOULD THINK!! I CANT DO IT FOR MYSELF, CLEARLY

[unborn badger]

didn't like the low rpm scouts tbh

[surreal nova]

Aisha’s will be more your speed then. Very stable weapon, zoom is just a touch high

I wish you could customize zoom on weapons tbh. I’d love some kind of armory system where you can tinker with weapons in a limited way

[unborn badger]

if you're this easily disappointed and irritated the problem is not bungie

rotm's been hella praise so far idk why you're this riled up lol

ig besides ultimatum diff being not as hard as expected

[surreal nova]

Does trials still require hitting max power level?

[neat niche]

they did add zoom + and minus mods recently but its only like a bit i think

[low ledge]

it should be abit more difficult

[unborn badger]

yeahhh

[surreal nova]

Oh but that’s kinda sick though. Neat

[unborn badger]

but hey think about the poor casuals

[cursive needle]

The problem is they gave us Pantheon last year and we have Temu Pantheon this year. Bungie always goes in the same cycles. "Trash, Worse then before, REALLY GOOD"
Always the same 3 peat cycle. OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Sorry for just pointing out that it's ridiculous and I can say "ROTN Isn't as good as Pantheon" because I'm not having the same level of fun that I did with Pantheon. It's really that simple

[surreal nova]

I’m now more hyped for playing d2 again than I am for marathon

[unborn badger]

actively proving my point 🤭

[low ledge]

destiny should never have been about casual players to begin with, u can cut that off at the story telling but endgame stuff should be sweaty, its what locks players in imo

[restive lily]

Explorer mode is probably the best feature from rite of the nine. My brain dead friends love it

[neat niche]

im not sure how it works solo quieing but power level is kinda irrelevant now across the game. as long as 1 person is at level youll be brought to almost theirs

[surreal nova]

I normally solo flawless but it’s good to know I can lfg and not worry about power level

[unborn badger]

not gonna give judgement for this cuz pvp did technically bring up the game as well and naturally that crowd's gonna get bored and try new shit and can't get in cuz of the high pve floor compared to what they're used to

[iron aspen]

its really nice. heard people actually enjoy gotd so thats a plus

[neat niche]

in what way

[low ledge]

yeah i have mixed emotions ab this too, basically incentivizes players to not play

[unborn badger]

also tier 5 armor being flex feels...off?

[low ledge]

im okay with the light level not existing since it doesnt matter anymore anyways but they should make the modifiers a little more challenging

[surreal nova]

Dude, I wanna play, I just don’t want to run strikes or gambit to get pinnacles and grind my level. If I could hit max light with pvp in reasonable time I’d be down

[neat niche]

i think its ok because playing the same vanguard strikes i have for 10 years to have a number go up so i can play the actual thing i want to is not good

[unborn badger]

having tier 5 sets and still having challenging content would feel better

instead of getting the flex armor and then calling the game easy cuz that's literally the power ceiling and creeps everything

[proud plinth]

Hi i hate bungie

and I hope all of their employees get fired and never ever find work in the gaming world ever again.

[unborn badger]

aight honey time for bed

[low ledge]

very true

[neat niche]

ah fair enough. i do think there was some more room to change up the encounters, if anything ghosts is a bit easier mechanically.

[surreal nova]

In my nightmares I can hear failsafe’s voice telling me to kill fallen in her insides

[cold stump]

it wont be we saw a screenshot where they get more stat points then everything else

[cursive needle]

yes you can hit max just playing pvp. There is a time-gate but you can do it. I just run pinnacle drops for dungeons + strikes personally. I dont like pvp personally so I can't tell you how your experience would go. But LL in PVP only matters on trials, it doesnt matter in crucible.

I should preface this, I don't like PVP in general. The rework got me to play PVP, but I hate pvp with a burning passion as it is. So many cheaters + people who have been playing since they were 8 month old infants and now they're 45 year old virgins. I can't stand the sweaty musk of pvp bro.

[clear sequoia]

I think I’m skipping bed tonight cause my sleeps no workie

[unborn badger]

extra stats and exclusive cosmetics yeah I saw lol

[clear sequoia]

Bout to say fuck it

[unborn badger]

problem is if it's gonna creep over max diff and then people would whine and call the game easy while literally having the best things in the game to cheese shit with

but hey we need tests for that

[neat niche]

i think the destiny community is like,,,, disproportionately good at games, or at least the people that are really good are very active about letting themselves be known

[summer apex]

Maaaaarcus, You should be wishing for the dismissal and ruin of Bungie's management, not its employees who are not to blame for anything.

[proud plinth]

what are they talking about

[unborn badger]

raids have overly trained people 💀

[cold stump]

remember theyre adding contest modifier selectable to everything and theres even a difficulty ABOVE grandmaster now

[neat niche]

me and my friends were stuck on ultimatum spire cor like 5 days lol

[clear sequoia]

One guy might be

[ancient fern]

If you craft it or make it into an enhanced weapon you can increase or decrease the zoom by 1 point, but yes I agree also I haven't seen if anyone else has mentioned this yet sorry

[proud plinth]

Their employees are all a bunch of useless people, no talent at Bungie.

[summer apex]

Maaaaarcuuuuuuuus

[surreal nova]

At least on the pvp side destiny pvp allows for insane skill expression, unlike any other arena style shooter out there. It’s singular in this sense. I don’t know much about PvE but I think people love how much build variety there is and want to test their broken builds against very hard content

[cold stump]

destiny has some of the most ambitious first person shooter content of all time

[neat niche]

we are not undergeared, we have all played on and off since at least vanilla d2, we were all new to the dungeon but its not like mechanically alien to us, but it was tough and satisfying

[summer apex]

👈 👆 👉

[cursive needle]

Try to solo Warlords Ruin on normal difficulty, spend a good 8-10 hours giving it an honest go, then come back and tell me you don't get the attraction of pve xD

[surreal nova]

Lani mentioned a mod that changes zoom but I didn’t know it would also work for crafted weapons, very neat

[cold stump]

as someone who is in love with boss design Zoetic Lockset is a masterpiece of a fight

esp on contest

[low ledge]

its just more challenging if ur off-meta

[proud plinth]

It's the biggest piece of g4rbage ever created, a walking scam that's dying slowly and painfully, and well, damn sh1t that depends on FOMO to survive.

[surreal nova]

Yeah I’ll be honest that sounds like the ball torture thing we were talking about earlier. Pass. I barely enjoy warlord’s with a full team

[neat niche]

pretty much everything is enhancable now too so not much worry there just have something that came out in the past year

[cold stump]

oh no d2 is dying 😟 wait wasnt it dying in 2023 and 2021 and 2019 and

[proud plinth]

As Marcus Fenix I can only say that for me all Bungie employees can eat SH1T and DIE

[cursive needle]

That's wild! Warlords is just a boss rush dungeon. I think its the best one personally purely because it's straight boss rush. I've solo flawlessed it twice xD

[cold stump]

warlords was almost the perfect dungeon

it needed loot on the level of vespers

[proud plinth]

Que detalle

[cursive needle]

Agreed. The only stand out was indebted and burried

[cold stump]

i think sundered is my favorite simply cuz its a dread dungeon lol

[proud plinth]

apart from the fact that they encourage the use of AI and content theft/plagiarism as a work culture

[surreal nova]

I dunno dude, the thing is I quite like challenging PvE shooters (like doom) but with Destiny specifically playing PvE when I could be playing PvP just feels wrong

[clear sequoia]

You use AI or you get lapped.

[proud plinth]

All Destiny 2 fans should be ashamed to continue playing that scam.

[cursive needle]

My list for Dungeons goes

1. Warlods
2. Sundered
3. Prophecy
4. Caitol (i forget the name.)
5. Pit
6. Shattered
7. Vespers
8. GOTD

[unborn badger]

yeah I'm not as worried then lmao

[neat niche]

twue, i think ill skip over most dungeons and just solo flawless that one 3rd lol

[cursive needle]

GOTD is the worst dungeon in the whole game and no one can change my mind.

[unborn badger]

AI as in literally how basic pve systems work get your sources right 😭

[proud plinth]

You pay huge amounts of money for a pay2win expansion, only to have it removed a year after its release as if nothing had happened.

[cold stump]

hey i like gotd!

[neat niche]

why vespers so.low...

[unborn badger]

holy shit some of y'all illiterate and doomer as shit

[surreal nova]

Where’s avarice? I enjoyed that one

[cursive needle]

just because it's the worst doesn't mean it's unplayable or horrible. It's just the worst one xD

[proud plinth]

generative AI

[cursive needle]

i knew i forgot one, avarice would replace Caitol and everything would shift down 1

[cold stump]

its just crude but it has the best traditional destiny fights

[unborn badger]

and where

[neat niche]

grasp is so annoying I hate it so much icl

[cold stump]

like puppeteer, raneiks, and zoetic are really ambitious but gotd bosses are simply dude that attacks u

[unborn badger]

cuz last I recall nothing bungie made's been genAI

[cursive needle]

I mean, Marathon might be entirely AI based on the quality we've seen so far ngl.

[unborn badger]

aaaaaaaaaand silence

[surreal nova]

How do I feel the way I felt when “guardians make their own fate” appeared on my screen for the first time

[unborn badger]

gang I'm an artist ik AI when I see a piece this shit is NOT genAI in the slightest

[cold stump]

fighting rhulk in the pantheon and starting final stand with barely any resources left but its 2 am and youre exhausted

[cursive needle]

Well, what a comparison. That's like a lawyer saying to a doctor "i can't represent you in court because I didn't go to medical school"
Bit ass backwards huh

[unborn badger]

well bring your evidence and we'll talk

if you have any in the first place

[low ledge]

yeah ive heard so much with no evidence brought to me

[neat niche]

why are we dissing Antireal like that

[cursive needle]

no idgaf lmfao i was making a joke on "AI Makes pretty bad art" and "Marathon is bad" so just like pen and apple, UHHH, no apple pen. We're left with marathon.

[clear sequoia]

AI is not going anywhere in game & web development. Devs will just get better at leveraging it.

[unborn badger]

aaaaaaand you dgaf cuz you can't bring anything to the table about how marathon's very clearly obviously AI 🤭

[cold stump]

i hate ai so much i uv unwrap everything manually !!!

[unborn badger]

no cuz your mesage literally doesn't make sense you lost me at apple pen what kinda allegory are you making

welp anyway

[mint solar]

how you fellas doin

[zinc igloo]

taken straight from a venture capital pitch huh.. talk about plagiarism....

[mint solar]

i just use blender smart UV unwrap ong

i aint even gonna lie

[cold stump]

im jk i use flat unwrapping on 3ds max x.x

[clear sequoia]

You have to use AI to stay relevant. It’s about working faster and really nothing else.

[cold stump]

an older game dev i know talked about how he would have to unwrap every single surface one at a time and i would die

[mint solar]

"You have to use AI to stay relevant" hard disagree

[neat niche]

kinda hate how ai bros abducted the term ai

[mint solar]

fr

cough adobe cough

[neat niche]

ai has been used in art and stuff forever, but mostly what it means to people now is generative ai

and the marketing push for it has been insane cant remember the last time something like this happened

[mint solar]

i just dont get how its a sustainable business model ong

[neat niche]

maybe like crypto stuff but that even felt different.

[clear sequoia]

It’s the direction a bunch of industries are going. Especially web design. It’s not really used for visual elements tho. Mainly code. It’s not meant to replace us, just make us faster. The tedious stuff gets handed off to AI agents, freeing you up for the more important tasks

[sullen zenith]

ai should always be used for helping work load or getting ideas never as a backbone. in my opinion

[radiant badge]

It's obnoxious and shady. Should be researched a little better before getting out into every corner of the market

[clear sequoia]

It’s used mostly for the mundane or tedious tasks

[sullen zenith]

makes sense to me

[mint solar]

im talking about art work and your talking about coding

[smoky rose]

The reason in video subtitles on YouTube videos have been inaccurate for 3+ years is because of Adobe integrating AI

AI literally cannot successfully replace ANYONE doing any task. It is a tool. There is no there, there.

[clear sequoia]

There’s ways to use it for artwork just the same tho. Meshes, textures, shaders

It’s just a bigger work horse on the code side of things

[sick sluice]

gm

[mint solar]

it looks horid at this moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YprYRWF1LM

actually unusable

[wild cave]

Ai is pretty interesting actually but I definitely sympathize with the backlash for how often it's used to cheapen, skip, or lower the quality of something

[smoky rose]

https://youtu.be/V5wLQ-8eyQI?si=rRgIbCMboopby64v

[unborn badger]

I'd rather the techbros elaborate on what they meant by AI cuz rn people are just gonna default to genAI which arguably nobody knowledgeable's gonna like

[mint solar]

yah just go on new steam new realeases or on facebook and youll see why everybody hates ai

[wild cave]

Yeah fr
Ai slop is just, ass

[twin pulsar]

Text based adventures have been using Generative AI to slowly grow infinite narrative and be as emergent as possible. There is room for this to grow and actually be good

[mint solar]

i like my slop natural

[clear sequoia]

Depends on what you’re making and how creative you are at incorporating/leveraging AI. No one way to go.

[unborn badger]

and I like how they quietly snuffed all talk about their dataset sources 🤭

[clear sequoia]

I do think the day will come where anyone will be able to spin up an early game build 100% with AI

[frosty lily]

Is Marathon cooked, chat?

[unborn badger]

salvageable

[spice folio]

is it?

[rose sierra]

i think the game will be good but public perception is out the window

[twin pulsar]

I do not understand the doom and gloom.

[frosty lily]

I heard rumours of it being delayed.

[clear sequoia]

Then it will be about who’s the most imaginative.

[unborn badger]

people want it to but like, bfr

[candid talon]

it should be delayed honestly

[twin pulsar]

Which is a positive.

[spice folio]

ye and i heard that bungie is a good company

[unborn badger]

yk a lil birdie told me that thinkers that don't do work and want instant gratification are usually slugs and leeches

[candid talon]

that'd be the best move honestly if they're not gonna compensate antireal or get em on the art team. if they delay it, people will eventually forget what happened. kinda like how celebs do it LMAO

[unborn badger]

why do you think we have creative teams that separate the think tanks and the doers

[spice folio]

why would antireal join them after all that?

[unborn badger]

this is a line we shouldn't cross lol

[candid talon]

@spice folio monetary gain i guess

[twin pulsar]

It's like an Architect vs a Civil Engineer and construction labour

[mint solar]

my brother the topology and uv map that ai produces is functional in the same way as calling a cactus a dldo because they resemble the same shape

[candid talon]

like why else would you work a job?

[pallid geyser]

I wonder how things would of went if they did they live stream the week before when it was originally planned before they claimed Joe Ziegler had shit going on

[unborn badger]

exactly same as genAI that's the architect doing the building and wondering why it's a trash heap with like 17 worker deaths everytime

[spice folio]

but after stealing and probaply lying i would prob not work for them

[unborn badger]

historically bungie's been honest

I would cuz I'm nice but yeah reasonable if anti doesn't wanna associate with them

waiting for the chef knife to hit my chest

[clear sequoia]

Just wait a couple more months then 😀

[mint solar]

thats what they said 2 years ago

[candid talon]

but to have a chance to have your art shown to a wider audience and have your vision immortalized in a popular game i dunno that seems like an incentive i guess...plus being paid.

[pallid geyser]

Is they why they are currently in that lawsuit with that Red War in Destiny 2?

[clear sequoia]

It’s accelerating like crazy rn

[mint solar]

thats what they said 2 years ago

[unborn badger]

are you really believing in a suit against them with like zero credible evidence being made public and bungie not being able to pull anything cuz it's vaulted

but ig sure yeah they're very definitely fully guilty for it

[clear sequoia]

It probably seemed that way then lol. It’s all relative.

[oblique owl]

holy fuck r u still yapping

[low ledge]

yeah genuinely why didnt they address this years ago when red war dropped, its bs to me

[clear sequoia]

I can’t see what you type Wheez lol

[mint solar]

didnt bungie try to use sources from youtube videos and a judge shot that down real quick?

[unborn badger]

cuz it's not credible apparently

[candid talon]

anyway I think that if they dont get antireal in on it or compensate them properly they should definitely delay the game because otherwise this is going to be a marketing nightmare and if they had antireal in it or paid them for their work they wouldn't have to do alot of scrubbing. I don't get why they didnt just compensate them immediately after finding out

[storm galleon]

so on a scale of raw to cooked, how cooked is marathon?

[candid talon]

i think probably medium well

[low ledge]

^

[unborn badger]

I mean I kinda get the reason cuz gameplay vids kinda don't show the full scope they want concept arts and behind the scenes stuff not gameplay vids that show the whole thing together and some stuff get skipped

and the judge's def not gonna look for like 13 thousand vids for everything

[still frigate]

it looks like apex

[twin pulsar]

That's the best kind.

[storm galleon]

fair assessment ngl

[twin pulsar]

It doesn't. But plays a tad bit like it

[unborn badger]

yeah well apex plays like tf2

plagiarism at its finest apex is a FRAUD!!!

[iron aspen]

i hope both sides lose

[pallid geyser]

yes

[deep patio]

Upper management might not have liked having to pay her probably

[still frigate]

why is there dbno in my extraction shooter

[candid talon]

Dude its like a drop in the bucket

[storm galleon]

id say marathon is crock pot stew at this point and i aint even happy about it tbh\

[unborn badger]

I wouldn't mourn the game yet 4 months is a lotta time for tweaks

[twin pulsar]

Crock pot stew is amazing stuff. Make some Goulash

[still frigate]

tru

[iron aspen]

numbers are numbers the higher up one is

[candid talon]

fuckin greed dude is crazy especially when its like "wow this is the best option but............."

[unborn badger]

plus dropping the NDA was a massive miss for a closed alpha playtest that prioritized on app size (crunchy and scuffed visuals) while not changing the core mechanics

but oh no I'm the shill 💔

[storm galleon]

im not worrying about the game dying per-se, its more im afraid the devs will crack under the pressure of the community. poor morale will spell disaster for the future of this game.

[young geode]

Was the wrong time to have massive amounts of eyes on it

[unborn badger]

lightfall fiasco all over again

not lightfall entirely per se ig just ron being a snoozefest

"marathon looks bad bubububububu" meanwhile the playtest was like what, 6GB?

[clear sequoia]

It’ll fade quick-ish

[unborn badger]

but hey scuffed felini UI on the hackpad was funny

[wheat widget]

6gb? Maybe will be also a mobile version then 😅

[unborn badger]

why does she look so crunchy 😭

[storm galleon]

idk it seems to be getting to joe at least. who knows how many ppl at bungie feel like joe right now lol

[unborn badger]

I feel insanely bad for joe imagine working on a project you've been super passionate about and an employee does the funny and it all gets pushed onto you by a [redacted] crowd (I got muted for saying that]

both joes but especially joe cross

[storm galleon]

yeah joe aint feeling too hot rn

[wheat widget]

I feel bad for Joe too

[unborn badger]

"joe very specifically and suspiciously follows anti" he follows like 700+ people

[rose plank]

Absolutely depressing for Joe and everyone else at Bungie who didn't skip the part of kindergarten where most of us learned stealing is bad

[unborn badger]

people making shit out of piss atp

[storm galleon]

if i was joe id be pissed too. he looked like he wanted to commit seppuku on that dev stream. actuall sad to see

[unborn badger]

doesn't help that one of the antireal members made a whole ass thread everywhere absolutely dogging joe cross

[clear sequoia]

Yeah he has portfolio pieces in that style going way back. He probably feels like this fiasco invalidates his vision to some degree. Don’t blame him.

[rose plank]

Also doesn't help that Paul Tassi absolutely leaped on the bangwagon and refuses to get off

[storm galleon]

everyone's looking for thier 15 seconds unfrotunatly

[unborn badger]

yeah let's pile literally everything onto the art director cuz it's absolutely and obviously and fully and clearly his job to scrutinize every singular asset of the game for questionable or plagiaristic sourcing

[iron aspen]

and aztecross

[unborn badger]

like fuck

I'm just tired this whole thing's actually made me sad for the past few days

this game's a dream come true for me I love this neoprene cyberpunk minimalistic and slightly vectorheart fever dream of a shooter and it just gets dogged by morons looking for money

[storm galleon]

fr bc i actually love the concept and vision for this game and if it fails ill be pretty let down tbh

[zinc igloo]

i dont think it's very humanist to advocate for "just working faster" to stay relevant when.. i mean that justification is already being used to put people out of their jobs and livelihoods.. look i get the new piece of tech is fascinating and novel but unfortunately as long as it's getting spearheaded by venture capitalists and tech CEOs who really couldn't care less about who gets hurt along the way i really don't think it's going to "innovate" for us in the ways you probably assume it to when we already see how it's negatively impacted society.. it is a tool yes, and that places a lot of responsibility in the wielder, but 95% of yall are just telephoning each other about this grand new technology that has the potential to make the world better while almost explicitly using it for just saturating every corner of the internet with """content""". also a nitpick but yall seem to believe creativity is an inherent immutable quality instead of an actual skill that beckons for time and energy to develop and i 100% believe it's cause none of yall actually believe you're capable of creative thought.... i guess im just saying be aware of how u come across, former libertarians always talk about how much they hated other libertarians and all that....

[unborn badger]

I genuinely wish the devs well atp this community tires me sometimes (most of the time)

[rose plank]

Bungie when the guy in charge of the entire art team doesn't recognize that a few teeny parts of background textures were stolen from a twitter post

[unborn badger]

I'm just so tired man

but no aesthetics can be stolen now

signed literally every commentary youtuber feeding on drama

[magic rose]

hi

[storm galleon]

september isnt enough time imo. they need another like 6-8 imo.

at least

[zinc igloo]

reminds me that a sloptuber used someone's recreation of the marathon font in their thumbnail.. without attribution.... im tired too

[storm galleon]

lol

[rose plank]

This is true tho, especially with the controversy. It needs more time

[unborn badger]

granted they do need better work on this I'm tryna be fair here cuz I looked at fractal grove's vid about the thefts but that was 5 years ago what his experiences mentioned

[oblique owl]

I mean, if it's not his job to do it personally then he should at least of put systems in place to properly track where art is coming from, no? Obviously there is stolen content, and like they said in #marathon-news they are implementing systems to prevent something like this from happening, but how come they weren't there in the first place?

I don't wish harm on any of the devs, i'm not psychopathic. But this WAS a failure on Bungie's end, in their marathon art department, which is headed by Cross, and therefore the blame falls on him, and it also falls on him to make it right. That's what leadership is

[unborn badger]

yeah I wish all the bungie devs well cuz god knows they need it

[storm galleon]

fr like just 6-8 months to reshape the bad and refine the good.

[zinc igloo]

this!!

[oblique owl]

unfortunately there will be nutcases on the internet that will throw death threats left right and center at anything that pisses them off but like

[unborn badger]

firing squad for spitting on a soldier

ig not really fitting point is how overkill this shit is lol

[storm galleon]

tbh tho we live in an age where plalgerism and copyright infringement is the new black. everyone is stealing to a degree. it only matters how blatant.

[oblique owl]

the world being bad should never be an excuse to stop trying to be better than it

[unborn badger]

techbros ain't wrong about artists stealing all the time that's the dirty way of saying every idea's a derivative but we didn't mean blatantly feeding a blender and a teletubby custard machine 😭

[storm galleon]

based

[unique pasture]

the channel where nobody knows what they are talking about

[unborn badger]

how you living

[deep patio]

Damn right

[unique pasture]

they just say shit to say shit

[waxen minnow]

Techbros saying that and artists saying it is 2 very different things

Techbros dont give a fuck about the artist, they just want unchallenging art to endlessly consume

[unborn badger]

gang I'm here I got muted for tryna make the chat right 🙏

[unique pasture]

dont bother bro

[zinc igloo]

i'll get doxxed for saying it but at least with cases of plagiarism there's actually room for reparation and attribution instead of using an AI's output.. trained on uncountably many works that will never get attribution for their non consensual use....

[unborn badger]

nah they behaving rn

[unique pasture]

crazy

[unborn badger]

ik

who woulda thought there's reasonable people among a sea of morons and a lot of them no less

[storm galleon]

was it weird in here earlier? i don't get it.

[deep patio]

Who in fuck..... would dox you for this????

[zinc igloo]

bungie haters are a different breed okay

[deep patio]

Disappointing, truly

[unborn badger]

if you meant AI paintovers then nah

[zinc igloo]

someone i know got threatened to be lynched for trying to be nuanced about "you cant plagiarize an art style"

and all sorts of slurs thrown at them too

[unborn badger]

and like I like the idea of tryna recreate an AI piece to spite techbros but they usually post in sites where interaction gives them money so it's a win-win for them and we just get ragebaited

[zinc igloo]

people are just so brazen

[unborn badger]

at least we get some pretty pieces out of the shitshows they make every monday

[deep patio]

How does one respond to such while keeping sane??

[alpine flower]

Can you send me the link to the frame please if you can

[unique pasture]

you dont

[unborn badger]

gang it's the internet ☠️

[deep patio]

Ig thats thats the best option

[unborn badger]

even if it's the same country you can call for police protection however ineffective it is

[unique pasture]

iz not that deep

[deep patio]

The police here are a joke

[unborn badger]

yeahhhh just...stay safe out there

[deep patio]

Ill do my best

[unborn badger]

turning 21 I'm not giving my kids internet access if I have kids at all

[deep patio]

Someone invite Antireal to the discord?

[unique pasture]

why

[unborn badger]

it ain't the paradise like the 90s made it up to be lol it's a bot cesspool here

I'll play doom with my son if I have one but I'm not letting him near any one of you freaks

[alpine flower]

Hey bro, can you please tell me how to get the frame

[unique pasture]

what is this guy talking abou

[unborn badger]

no idea what frame is 😭

[unique pasture]

maybe hes talking about dacs

[deep patio]

I wanna know if bungie has talked to her is all

[unborn badger]

unless you mean alpha in which case it's over a while ago lol

can you still get dacs tbh

[deep patio]

You still got yours? I cant see mine no more

[oblique owl]

they've stated they have

#marathon-news message

We have reached out to 4nt1r34l to discuss this issue and are committed to do right by the artist.

[deep patio]

I should've rephrased. I meant if they've come to an agreement beyond scrubbing her assets

[unborn badger]

anyway the only AI art I'll support is procedural generation and even that's not even remotely close to AI

[oblique owl]

don't think any of the specifics are public atm

if there are any

[deep patio]

Fair enough. More waiting then

[unborn badger]

saw a procedural piece in a casino gallery and it sampled real-time data of the shores near the city's beach for 3 days to make a wave of blocks moving vertically and it's so mesmerizing

[waxen minnow]

Calling it ai is an insult to the actual coding behind getting procedural generation to work

[unborn badger]

AY fellow procgen art fan

[unborn badger]

the entire wall btw and the gallery ceiling's like 2 floors high

[waxen minnow]

Havent seen it that much in art

But the idea of something changing and being different all the time is cool to me

[oblique owl]

that's cool. Artistic depictions of data != AI models generating images based on stolen assets tho

[unborn badger]

too bad half the procgen artists I followed on instagram moved onto AI cuz they're about the tech not the art 😭

but hey I appreciate the real ones who stayed

[clear sequoia]

I’ve always been a creative person and I’ll admit I was a little nervous when all this AI stuff first popped up. But after playing around with it, I started seeing it more as a tool for creatives more than a replacement for creatives.

[waxen minnow]

The only actual ai i like is shit like ai minecraft

Because i just dont know how that works

[unborn badger]

some shit we just sink too deep into like how widely used vaseline is when it's basically crude oil

no backing out of that now ig

[rose plank]

AI is great at like skimming the internet and researching stuff but if you use it for art I'm not gonna lie you might be cringe. Shit just looks worse than other forms of expression

[unborn badger]

it's not even about being bad I care about the people and environment it impacts

art should focus on people I feel

[waxen minnow]

I value art made by children more than ai art
Because at least it was made with intention instead of just to make something to consume

[zinc igloo]

i can respect that, i'm sorry if i came off a little harsh too, it's just important to judge these things by how they're actually being used instead of what people say about them.. AI has and will continue to put creatives out of jobs as long as any entertainment industry is dominated by corporate interest..

[waxen minnow]

My take on AI generated imagery has always been that it's made for people who want bland, unchallenging, without reason or intention art to blindly consume

[clear sequoia]

Yeah but it’s the people using it that are actively teaching it what looks good versus what doesn’t. So it can evolve. Eventually it will be indistinguishable from anything else.

[waxen minnow]

Also using AI for any research ot info is just bad

It does not take biases from sources into account

[clear sequoia]

I can totally see that angle and don’t disagree. My boss sends me emails I can tell ChatGPT wrote. And yeah I agree some jobs will be lost, I’m just not as worried about that as I was before. I still feel needed to orchestrate the madness lol

[manic seal]

i had a job recently, where they started to do the thing where you're required to use the company provided AI a certain amount and it went on your review, pretty evil

i quit for unrelated rto reasons

[true epoch]

1. To normie yes, ai is for the uncreative
2. To actual artist, ai is godsent that will prevent issues and reduce time consumption

Yall just cope that Arc Riders has half of asset store and ai slop in itself

[cursive needle]

The mods in this discord are NOW more sensitive than a cockroach getting hit with roach spray, instead of the rash on a womans leg after a day out at the beach with no shower.

Join the convo with us you buffoons. I will whip out my arsenal of late 1920's early 1930's cartooney humor and narrative insults against all of you to fight this ridiculous battle you started with me. Oh? Is Buffoons gonna get me banned? Is that gonna get me timed out? Did that go too far for your sweet little heart?

[waxen minnow]

As an artist AI just removes what makes human art unique even when it's just for assistance

[true epoch]

If you say that AI removes humanity in art then you arent artist. Artists know how to use AI to elevete their work and not just generate bullshit to have easy content. Ive seen so many artists who pushed AI so hard, they made their own art, used AI to fill in detailing and then manually edited it afterwards into an awesome project that nobody could do with just human hand

[waxen minnow]

I have seen people use ai to assist them in art, and a lot of human elements like facial features and small details get removed

Saying that i am not an artist for thinking that it removes human elements from art is just a terrible argument

[clear sequoia]

Yeah I was just going to add, you can be creative with what you use it for.

[true epoch]

Dont use public crap AIs and train your own so you wont have such issues ?

Bro just stop arguing when you dont know

I trained my personal chat AI on all of my work, so when I tell it to generate thesis for me, it will have exact same stylisation and word chosing as me

[delicate canyon]

As someone who uses AI (not for art) the human aspect is retained as long as an actual human is in control of the situation. If you're lazy with it then yeah it will spit out trash

[waxen minnow]

Giving an AI prompts don't make you in control of what it generates

It will use data trained from a bunch of other things, jumble it and add it without any reason or intention behind it

[true epoch]

"I am artists" no bro you are just dude who follows instagram art pages and cries over AI posts that "took your job" as if you had one in the first place

[delicate canyon]

Using prompt based AI might be the issue then xD

[true epoch]

As I said most artists who use AI feed it with their actual art

Not some text prompts

[delicate canyon]

One that you directly feed and interact with will be much more dynamic and produce much closer to real life results

[waxen minnow]

I have 2 bands i am actively working on, i follow artists and know how and what AI actually does

So no i am not what you think i am, you are just throwing meaningless insults because i have a different view on AI generated imagery than you

[delicate canyon]

Depends on how in-depth you need the assistance to be of course

[true epoch]

"Actively working on" doesnt mean anything

[cursive needle]

I'm about to be the bugs bunny to this discords mod teams sad and pathetic tea party version of buzz lightyear if yall keep this up.

[delicate canyon]

That is the driving point after all, it's AI-assisted, not piloted

[waxen minnow]

How does actively working on art not make me an artist

[true epoch]

Go cry on other server if you dislike it here

[true epoch]

Did you produce, release and publish anything?

[cursive needle]

Yall so scared of Marathon failing you have to hide in the shadows and curl up in a ball if you even think someone is getting offended, then you get offended on behalf of someone who isn't offended. Go eat a carrot.

[true epoch]

You are the only one crying about it

[cursive needle]

You're missing context, I got timed out twice in a row for the dumbest reasons. Hence, they're now buffoons instead of cowards i guess

[delicate canyon]

Anyways I must return to work, have fun w/ the debate, hope yall learn from each other ✌️

[true epoch]

From what Ive seen, your way of chatting should be timed out

[copper hill]

Everytime I get onto this server some guys have gotta be arguing about something 💀

[true epoch]

discord experience

[cursive needle]

From what I've seen, you should change your name because it has "chud" in it. You might get timed out for offending real chuds

[waxen minnow]

No, and you dont need to in order to be an artist.
You are basically saying that every single musician wasn't one until they made their first demo, EP or Album

[true epoch]

Its a chud in it cause my real name is Mičuda and Č is spelled tsch in english, get a life

[copper hill]

Chuds are an endangered species he's spreading awareness

[cursive needle]

I don't care nor did I start this conversation lmfao

[true epoch]

Yeah, you are about to be artist

[true epoch]

Bro you have been spamming copypastas all around

[cursive needle]

When

[true epoch]

When you cried about marathon moderation

[copper hill]

Ignore him if it's such a problem 💔💔💔

[cursive needle]

Show me right now where I copy pasta'd anythinG LMFAOOO Search my name in the upper right, then come back and apologize to me for being a liar

[rough ocean]

Hello Concord 2 chat, how are we today? The Dosenz of you looking forward to release?

[true epoch]

.

[copper hill]

Not hopefull at all marathon development is cooked 💔💔💔

[cursive needle]

And where's the copy/pasta? Where's the other one? Where fam?

[true epoch]

Copypasta not copy/pasta lmao, copypasta is spam message so long it cant be paraphrased

[cursive needle]

Well then every single message you sent is copypasta so take your own advice and use your own logic on yourself 🙂

[copper hill]

Discord users look at the block button like they have discovered fire

[true epoch]

Lmao imagine getting so pressed 🤣

[summer apex]

You have to be willing to discuss this nonsense on the Marathon discord on a Friday.

[true epoch]

React button is better

[cursive needle]

Pressed? I refer to #🗣marathon-general-chat message for all future correspondences between us

[true epoch]

Dont reply to me then

[cursive needle]

"Don't reply to me then" Again, see #🗣marathon-general-chat message "use your own logic on yourself :)"

[true epoch]

What did i just say

[potent pawn]

Bro u guys killed the chat

[cursive needle]

I think marathon, the mod team, and the leadership at bungie did that all on their own tbh

[clear sequoia]

And it’s 5 in the AM

[snow ember]

what i find "interesting" is the complete lack of communication

[unreal karma]

dont you guys have j*bs

[deep patio]

If they thought it was a good idea to take down the NDA, can they extend that with every single thing that happens till release? Id like a live cam of whats happening at bungie HQ offices for complete and utter transparency

[true epoch]

Nah just you

Enjoy mute

[desert wigeon]

Pack it up y'all

It's over let it go

[wooden fjord]

Love that song

[tired pollen]

I don’t want this game to die before it even drops 😦

[potent pawn]

Funny you are still here to say this

It’s just weird that people would sit in here and rag on Bungie, the people here that are actually somewhat normal are here because they want Bungie to finish an awesome game so we can play it.

They are cooking right now. Just a little detour to cleanup some art and compensate some people that deserve it. But they are cooking man

[tired pollen]

Hope so

[verbal bear]

It's not about being weird or normal. Calling criticizing people weirdos makes you even more weird than they

The game already won't be as good as it could be, according to all the insides about internal communication and vibe

And ignoring the fact that studios steal arts, ignore their devs, make awful press conferences will have huge consequences on the whole industry

[potent pawn]

Criticism isn’t weird. But if you want the game to die and you’re still here a week later, that’s weird. Super weird

[tall pulsar]

nah

[potent pawn]

Dude the inside stuff is all crap from ex employees that are made they got fired for sucking at their job

[tall pulsar]

Im glad they got fired now

[verbal bear]

Not really, you can't even tell that because people don't leak the names

[potent pawn]

When someone gets fired and then starts bad mouthing the company, you really gonna believe it? lol

[verbal bear]

It is controversial information, but it still exists

[potent pawn]

Without names it’s even more of a joke. We don’t even know if they exist!

[tall pulsar]

but its still hearsay. 🙂

[verbal bear]

Facts, but we don't even know that they doesn't exist

And every large studio has functioning insiders

[potent pawn]

One guy wrote an article, claiming to have sources. Then every single YouTuber ever copied all their claims in a 20 min video

[verbal bear]

It's like claiming that any negative information is fake and published by some weirdos, or fired employees, or some haters and rivals

[potent pawn]

I just see a bunch of articles bashing a company that the writers are biased against, on a trash publication (did anyone ever think Forbes was reliable?) and everyone else is repeating it like a bunch of NPCs

[grim juniper]

im back

[verbal bear]

For example there was a HUGE breakdown of internal closed alpha state, and the public closed alpha build we got. Those 2 were absolutely different games

[grim juniper]

who remembers me

[potent pawn]

Some info is actually corroborated. But stuff like “oh man the morale is in the toilet” like man even if one employee thought that you can’t even imagine that not every single other employee would agree?

[verbal bear]

We got some unpolished crap with gutted content, and people just spread that stuff to the internet

[dusk temple]

Dude this chat went to flames real quick, sucks the situation went down like that, I was looking forward to Marathon

[tall pulsar]

Im still excited for it

[verbal bear]

Morale in the devs collective is something shared tbh. It is either some single person, or the whole team

[potent pawn]

They wanted to test some aspects of the game with players. They did that and got useful info. Now they are doing more updates for the next test

[potent pawn]

What?

[dusk temple]

Honestly good because its a solid concept similar to Hunt

[tall pulsar]

it just needs to be alittle more like the Division where you just lose the loot you pick up from dying and some sort of safe box.

[verbal bear]

Do i really have to explain that? There are at least 3 departments (concept, devs, visuals) who are working together really close. And if someone is getting disappointed on the current development flow, he rots the whole department and even other department. And the are just 2 outcomes:

• he gets isolated because nobody shares his opinion
• people share his vibes and start speaking about that more loudly, because they found that they aren't alone

[verbal bear]

Still looking forward to Marathon, but not really sure am i going to pay 40$+ on day1

[near hearth]

holy yap, also that is not even remotely accurate to how studio's operate

one guy isn't going to ruin the company

[clear sequoia]

This seems super subjective and not like common knowledge we should all know n stuff bro

[tall pulsar]

Man Splitgate 2 is not looking good right now lol

[verbal bear]

I think you never have been in similar situation, where 20 people sitting silently with negative opinion, but they still sit silently because they are afraid of getting no support

[ashen lava]

forgot that came out lol

[potent pawn]

We don’t even know if the person who said stuff about morale was a dev, right? And even if he was a dev, there’s a lot of low performing devs especially at a large company. The devs that are actually churning stuff out are not gonna care

[near hearth]

what are you on about mate 💀

[verbal bear]

Absolutely common shit for most communities

[tall pulsar]

I guess the servers have been down no one has played it. smh

[potent pawn]

How would you know if no one tells you what they are thinking 😂

[potent pawn]

Splitgate still beta

[verbal bear]

We absolutely have no idea if that info is real and does that person even exist

But, even existence of that information already affects both company and target audience

[verbal bear]

As i said, when someone starts speaking loudly, people already feel that they aren't alone and also can share their thoughts. Just a chained reaction of community confidence

And still, you discuss some controversial shit on coffee breaks and e.t.c

Any community likes rumours and roasting their managers

[ashen lava]

i love making headcanon about whats happening in bungie's dev team. cus thats totally normal and stuff

we should start a wattpad account while we're at it too

[verbal bear]

(Well, at least i've never been in a team where we didn't discuss something like "why are they so stupid and ask us to do A, instead of B")

[near hearth]

could have written a novel by now, instead the marathon discord is blessed

[potent pawn]

Yeah and then you go back to work and life just continues like normal. Not everything is so dramatic, and actually the high drama story is a good indication it’s not accurate

[verbal bear]

There is nothing dramatic in negative vibes, it is just some low morale, absolutely normal and common nowdays

[ashen lava]

it brings a tear to my eye knowing that we're watching the start of something huge 🥲. these chat logs stand as the digital ages equivalent to Tolkien's scrawl on the edge of a page... "in a hole there lived a hobbit"

[verbal bear]

People tend to loose motivation, especially on long term project, especially after awful PR decisions

[near hearth]

on the edge of my seat rn

[potent pawn]

Yeah every normal common company is DYING A FIREY DEATH CLOSING THEIR DOORS ANY DAY NOW COMPLETE FAILURE (according to you)

[grave robin]

See what kind of community you've cultivated @dull estuary . Good job.

[ashen lava]

I got penguin publishing on the phone clamoring for a full manuscript guys, keep at it 👍

[verbal bear]

Never have said something like that, you can quote me if im wrong

I've just said that that information exists, and there are a lot of it here and there which is a bad sign. Smork raiders didn't have that much controversial stuff after their beta

[near hearth]

anyone can join the server bro this ain't their fault 😭

[ashen lava]

marathon dev team in shambles

this might be the FINAL blow to their already crippled morale

[verbal bear]

Marathon is still gonna get their money and auditory, but they definitely have less trust factor than they had 1 month ago

[tall pulsar]

Murphy's law

[slow wharf]

Bungie's worst enemy Is Bungie

[potent pawn]

Dude that’s literally what everyone is saying and you’re agreeing with them. Paul tassi says he sees literally no way forward. Complete failure. Such a massive ego to think he could know that but also dumb of everyone that agreed

[verbal bear]

I don't care what other people say, i just read the stuff and make my own opinion. Such large studio with such a big project won't struggle THAT much after bunch of failures

[tall pulsar]

Pete Parson

[verbal bear]

All the shit about "concord2" is stupid af

But, marathon still gonna struggle on launch and be overwhelmed with negative feedback is they won't do some strong decisions about their community management and PR

[potent pawn]

This is literally mainstream opinion lol.

[near hearth]

except bungie is struggling for money / sales, and they have been for a while

[summer apex]

If we really want this game to be successful, we have to be realistic. This game isn't ready to be released in four months.

[verbal bear]

They can be funded by sony, they will never run out of money

[near hearth]

sony will just dissolve the company bro

[slow wharf]

Be real Sony was cracking down on Bungie wtf

They're not gonna spoon feed them Infinite money

[verbal bear]

They are already sony slaves, and just will be a bit more Sony slaves than they were before

[soft star]

Mmm putting publisher money into the company for extra performancr pressure

[potent pawn]

Is it not ready? Who do you think would know if it’s ready? This chat? Or the actual people that are actually making the game?

[near hearth]

it's fairly likely sony will takeover management of the company completely (good) and keep all the devs

[verbal bear]

Globalization age, every small company eventually gets dissolved by a larger one

[summer apex]

this is cope

[verbal bear]

Yup

[soft star]

Chat would know, actually. If we are unhappy with the end product we wont buy.

[tall pulsar]

how?

[ember copper]

WHAT IS WORSE? FURRIES OR RELIGOUS PEOPLE?

[verbal bear]

We got absolutely different public build tho

[near hearth]

People who put the cereal before the milk

[ashen lava]

depends on the furry and the religious person.

[potent pawn]

Oh, you saw the final version? Nice!

[ember copper]

True

[crystal mural]

i am so ready to agree, right after they show the internal build they have. i cant base my judgements on a 6gb alpha i just cant.

[summer apex]

I find it impressive that you're really trying to sell the image that everything is fine, the game will be released without problems in 4 months, and the people who are suspicious or don't see that it will go well are mistaken and ignorant.

[potent pawn]

I’m just not pretending to know things I don’t know

[ashen lava]

nvm bungie should be dissolved immediately for fostering such a community

[verbal bear]

99% sure it s going to be delayed and it is really good choice

[ember copper]

Imagine actively saying that you should be firing squaded

[slow wharf]

We'll see how long It takes for cheats to set In and If they ruin Marathon like it ruined Frontier

[potent pawn]

If they need more time they will delay it, if they don’t they won’t. It’s like really simple lol

[verbal bear]

For cheats? Probably 1-2 days, especially if there will be another closed beta

[near hearth]

again, that is just not how that works

[tall pulsar]

I mean it has too since GTA6 got delayed but its up to Sony which Im very frustrated with. like they want to absorb bungie.

[summer apex]

This game needs a redesign of its gameplay base and a clear focus on what they're trying to achieve. The alpha test showed that this game lacks a gameplay loop that could ultimately appeal to the core gamers who aren't already interested in extraction shooters. We've been talking about this issue for a month, and I don't think we should look the other way.

[slow wharf]

Gta6 delay just so It can release at 100 dollaz 🙏

[verbal bear]

Mhm? Game engine won't change from beta till release

[summer apex]

So we just keep quiet and don't say anything, right?

[crystal mural]

did you play alpha?

[near hearth]

THATS NOT HOW CHEATS WORK

[summer apex]

yes

[verbal bear]

ESP and neural aimlock gonna release in a few days with the official launch

[soft star]

"You never saw the end product" is such a destiny fan cope. Yes its a live service game, it changes. Yes i can judge company's clear overall low capacity to deliver.

[verbal bear]

Just because how simple to get the game object links and screengrab

[slow wharf]

Alpha looked good I watched my friend play multiple sessions

[ashen lava]

this servers chat is the equivalent of a modern day gladiatorial arena. no matter the time and day i can come in here and watch an absolute slobberknocker.

[crystal mural]

it fuckin great ngl

[summer apex]

I think it's healthy to have conversations about how the game should improve on this chat, not just say the devs know what they're doing.

[soft star]

Yes the grass is ugly, yes there ars no spht compilers. So they add that. Interest or gameplay wont massively improve

[ashen lava]

in fact i might start another server that has a 24/7 stream so people can bet on the fights

[potent pawn]

We literally don’t have the information needed to decide if it should be delayed. We don’t have the power to decide. Why are we doing this lol. We have a tiny window into a partial alpha build that’s old and that’s literally it

[verbal bear]

What are you talking about, lmao. So tell me, how the cheat development works nowdays

[near hearth]

new past-time discovered

[crystal mural]

i hope they stream today

[slow wharf]

For me the gameplay would keep me entertained for a good bit, but It could definitely give players more drive and qol (especially selecting multiple missions to complete)

[tall pulsar]

are they streaming?

[slow wharf]

Doing them one by one Is such an annoying way to extend your gameplay

[crystal mural]

it was implied last stream but not confirmed

[summer apex]

At this point in the story, saying this is simply denying the current situation. And I'm not here to convince you otherwise.

[crystal mural]

and with everything going on idk

[clear sequoia]

How do we know that 4 months in advance?

[soft star]

We do have the info, actually. Disastrous alpha reception compared to 6 years of devtime and antireal drama. Good reason to consider a delay

[crystal mural]

seems like an over correction to the tarkov quest system imo

[wintry isle]

If the alpha is two ish months old thats 6 months total till release

I dont think they will have enough time the game needs a good year

[verbal bear]

Pretty sure they will change it on release. 6 corporations, 1by1 quests is a joke

[potent pawn]

You guys are all sooo smart. I’m surprised Bungie hasn’t hired you

[crystal mural]

i did the maths on the work hours, its a lot of hours still left working on the game. doesnt mean they will use the hours well

[wintry isle]

Bungie leadership are morons they dont listen to there own devs

[summer apex]

I guess it's easier to act like we live in a cave and claim we can't possibly know anything. I foresee a good future with this attitude.

[slow wharf]

I know right where's my salary for being able to read player base feedback and actually act upon It smh

[soft star]

Handwavey bs that does not address any points. Weak

[summer apex]

I'm starting to think you're just trying to provoke people.

[potent pawn]

Okay so that article was yet another hit piece driven by an ex employee that is pissed they got fired

[crystal mural]

as someone in the uk, being able to tell where your from and why your attitude is the way it is purely based on american time zones is crazy

[verbal bear]

Not the qualities you need to be a community manager based on modern HR's requirements

Rejected.

[wintry isle]

Its not just them lol over the years leadership is just bad you clearly have not done ur homework

[ashen lava]

https://tenor.com/view/loud-house-loud-house-series-loud-house-gifs-attack-brawl-gif-8891684

[twin sleet]

eh i was looking forward to playing this game in the UK but after seeing how plain lazy bungie is now they dont deserve anyone playing their games

[slow wharf]

Sorry what I meant to say Is I know how to devise the solution to the problem we force players to have with an easy 5 dollar payment

[tall pulsar]

upper management

[wintry isle]

Bungie is minimum viable product because of there upper mangement

[crystal mural]

hating on an alpha is gross, just like hating on harmless devs is gross

[wintry isle]

The alpha should of stayed nda

[crystal mural]

definitely

[wet herald]

Man, even the Bungie forums are bad lol

[verbal bear]

Literally impossible to keep it NDA

[wintry isle]

There was no point to un do the nda for cheap marketing points

[potent pawn]

I’ve heard the marathon game leadership say they think they can have the game ready by a certain date. I’m simply inclined to not assume they are complete lying morons haha. Maybe it changes? But what do I know? Relative to them I know literally nothing. All I can do is take their word for it. And definitely would believe them over some fired loser who sucked at their job

[verbal bear]

We even got leaks about internal alpha

[tall pulsar]

exactly Im reserving my judgement until the beta but Im still providing feedback though I wished I played the alpha to have a better insight on it.

[wintry isle]

It was too early of a build

[tall pulsar]

considering what happened yea it should have.

[summer apex]

Mmmmm

[crystal mural]

i think the next stream they do (if they do it) will be enough to tell me what this game is going to be. if we see the internal build and its looking significantly better than the alpha im all in.

[potent pawn]

No.. the public opinion of the leadership is bad. That’s not the same

[wintry isle]

Bungie leadership fumbled destiny

[verbal bear]

The internal build was far more developed tho. Another map, puzzles, hidden boss, bunch of other stuff

Probably it wasn't that stable, so they have chosen more stable build in favor of less content, or wanted to show people "how fast we can develop stuff", but that really was an awful decision

[potent pawn]

Oh ok, since final shape wasn’t the greatest expansion ever?

[crystal mural]

destiny is still a really good game btw, the audience is just like every other MMO audience. make a game for long enough and eventually people will hate what you make. this is a time proven behaviour pattern.

[verbal bear]

Forsaken.

[wintry isle]

Actually if u saw the orginal reveal they delayed final shape because leadership Actually got it through there thick skulls it needed more content

[tall pulsar]

people hated the seasons for forsaken tbh

[viscid owl]

Well they turned world of warcraft into a game for toddlers

[slow wharf]

I loved the forsaken seasons and I didn't have forsaken at the time

[potent pawn]

Nice, they made a good decision then you mean?

[verbal bear]

Final shape is a conclusion, it had to be something massive tho, foreshadowed for years

[crystal mural]

arguably, it is a game for either toddlers or hyper sweats with no comfy inbetween.

[slow wharf]

I'm even In the minority that enjoyed the expansions

[verbal bear]

People hate everything :D

[tall pulsar]

I did too but people were dropping off even then.

[crystal mural]

i think people dislike seasonal content more than they dislike destiny

[slow wharf]

Mars was my favorite location to explore, and mercury wasn't much but I enjoyed the campaign

[wintry isle]

Ok if leadership ship is soo good why did they work on serveal projects only for them to get canned and millions down the drain

[potent pawn]

If the release date was a year out I would be more inclined to think they could delay. But 5 months out shows a huge level of confidence. They might delay it still, who knows. But they showed confidence

[verbal bear]

As far as i know, we will get early access build in 5 months

[potent pawn]

Millions? Bro

[verbal bear]

Not the full season1 game

[tall pulsar]

and then they got mad when the devs decided to get rid of it for the next two expacs like theres no winning lol

[crystal mural]

im pretty sure they decided not to put millions down the drain, thats why those projects got canned.

[wintry isle]

Yes they had other projects and they all got canned

[wet herald]

Leadership seems sus. If you have multiple people who have worked there and currently work there, and they're all telling you that the higher ups arent listening to what they're saying for the good of the game: that's bad leadership.

Seems like some devs believe that this game is lacking a PVE component.

I love PVP, it's where I'll be. But as a person who wants to see other people enjoy this game, a PVE mode would be welcomed here

[slow wharf]

Do we think we'd be here If Bungie never split off from Activision

[wintry isle]

It was still a good few years of incubation projects

[potent pawn]

They spent time exploring new ideas and found only one that passed the test. That would be marathon.

[verbal bear]

PvE is far more popular for mass auditory, especially in such setting

[crystal mural]

having a few things lined up isnt unusual.

[wintry isle]

No actually they didnt cancel marathon because of how far along it was

[wet parrot]

skibidi ohio sigma

[potent pawn]

It’s only bad leadership if they are wrong

[loud flint]

DOA

[wintry isle]

So every dev is a liar then ok nice logic

Theres no point in even trying make clown understand lol

[potent pawn]

Oh interesting, that you have so much more information on this than anyone

[summer apex]

Nobody here wants Marathon to be cancelled, right? We are all in the same boat

[wintry isle]

No the devs have come out over the years i think they would know more than u and me

[slow wharf]

I would love for Marathon to thrive

[crystal mural]

the gaming community as a whole lacka nuanced understanding of how studios work and i blame studios being deliberately vague with their communications.

[slow wharf]

I eat up extraction shooters, I wish there were more

[potent pawn]

Lying? Or maybe the dev just had a different opinion and leadership disagreed. Should the leadership bow to every whim of every developer?

[crystal mural]

theres defo not enough on playstation

[wintry isle]

No they should fucking do what best for the game

Which in destiny case hasnt been the case for years

[potent pawn]

The fired devs, that sucked at their job

[crystal mural]

you are asking a business, to put the people before the business. its never gonna happen.

[wintry isle]

No they fired devs to cut costs

Because of the over hiring and bad business decisions

[deep patio]

So many bad business decisions

[slow wharf]

Just a few

[potent pawn]

You know they are bad employees because the actual competent employees never say all this crap. They move on to a new job and live their life

[slow wharf]

Small handful of poor decisions

[wintry isle]

Or maybe because the nda lifted lol

Nda dont last forever so former devs will speak out eventually

[crystal mural]

it feels like some people WANT to believe the worst and most toxic possible outcome or understanding of things. that trauma overhang ends up ruining everything for everyone.

[wet herald]

You're talking about a game, that essentially promised customizable runners, goes back on that and does heroes instead, even after the outcry when the rumors hit.

I personally think that Joe Z is not the guy for this game. I think the no hero customization is intentional to get players to spend serious $$$, and the revive mechanic is absolutely lazy. I think the boat is being steered the wrong way here. Wrong leader , for this game.

[crystal mural]

think about a future where people arent compelled to create out of fear of not pleasing enough people, thats not a future i want to live in

[near hearth]

Actually they make a lot of noise, bungie laid off "unessential" employers - that included heaps of seniors devs, most of their music team, and most of the QA team, wouldn't call them "unessential"

[wintry isle]

The music guy oh i guess he was bad at his job too

[near hearth]

yeah no michael salvatori was terrible, only did all the music for the past 20 odd years

[slow wharf]

They did talk about having your own runner, very sad It turned out as heroes.

[potent pawn]

Yep everyone loves to believe the worst and echo the haters. But then if the game is actually good when it comes out they will all be like “I knew it would be awesome!”

[wintry isle]

Yea he was mid asf

[near hearth]

all he did was the halo franchise as well

[crystal belfry]

Didn't one project split off and is now Gummi Bears, developed by TeamLFG?

[crystal mural]

nah i do agree with you here, Joe Z seems to have brought the wrong direction to this game than what people want and thats unfortunately the main driving cause of this hatred. he does seem like a really nice guy though i will add.

[wintry isle]

Yea a few go hired to sony

[potent pawn]

If they were essential then how did the company survive without them. Lol

[near hearth]

you cannot be serious

[wintry isle]

Have you seen how buggy destiny has been recently lol

[summer apex]

I'm sorry, but it tires me out that having a critical opinion about the game, when there are clearly reasons for it, is considered a hater attitude.

[wintry isle]

Since qa and support got laid off

[near hearth]

absolute game journalist take right here

[wet herald]

Yes they did, it was all over the marathon website until they made the hero announcement. An absolute bait and switch. Once JoeZ came along and the heroes rumor thing started at IGN, I knew things would get ugly, because they didn't listen to the fans back then.

[potent pawn]

It’s not buggy lol

[crystal mural]

it has had more bugs lately, i also noticed the maps and the reused assets a lot during the last couple of expacs. you have a point. i dont think thats easily explained like you think it is. "bad management" isnt the sole proprietor of bad games anymore.

[wintry isle]

Yes it is lol

U clearly have no clue what ur talking about

[tall pulsar]

Im sure there were some that deserved to be fired like Luke smith but both Martin and Joe Blackburn being gone hurt too

[potent pawn]

I’ve been literally playing it like most nights. Not buggy. I know this. It never has been

[wintry isle]

Luke basically stopped working on destiny

[slow wharf]

Destiny always has had bugs and unintended features

[crystal mural]

i think what everyone needs to understand is that the game could be really good. thats why we are here right?

[slow wharf]

I don't remember when it hasn't had something silly

[wintry isle]

With more time probably

[wheat pond]

it won't be good with the current people steering the ship

[tall pulsar]

but yea if he stayed he would be next oh well

[verbal bear]

Could be, but nobody knows would it be

[potent pawn]

Meanwhile the actual game journalists all are literally saying the exact opposite……..

[near hearth]

0/10 ragebait

[uneven ivy]

Bungle stole my bike 🚲

[crystal mural]

we can assume marathonwill have the same or slower work rate than destiny, but thats just an assumption. we cant know for sure.

I personally would love to be pleasantly surprised

[potent pawn]

When have you played destiny last dude?? I just played for like 5 hours! No bugs! Sheesh!

[wintry isle]

They will probably outside hire

[near hearth]

I have thousands of hours, I no life the game

[verbal bear]

I hope marathon will be delayed for another 3-4 month, polish all the rough shit, get a good PR company and make some loud launch

[wintry isle]

5 hours total?

[potent pawn]

No 5 hours today

[potent pawn]

If it’s so buggy then how did you even play??? What did you even do???

[oblique cedar]

Just leave it alone ☠️ these mfs think playing destiny is still cool

[crystal mural]

if you play any game for thousands of hours i think you will see bugs. thats a given. no game can say no bugs after 1000 hours.

[potent pawn]

If it’s such a failure then why did you play it so much??? Man

[verbal bear]

No bugs (for how long skating was in the game?)

[near hearth]

skating was intentionally left in

[potent pawn]

I’m talking about things I noticed, I was able to do literally everything I wanted to do and had no problems. So what’s the issue??

[crystal mural]

there is no other game like destiny, so for that i allow many mishandled situations. theres nothing quite like it.

[verbal bear]

It was patched and undone after community cry, don't you remember?

But it was patched like only after 1.5 monthes i think

[near hearth]

Every launch day has terrible issues, emergency maintenance every 2nd day, servers offline at least once a week, this isnt even about the bugs, stop yapping bro

[oblique cedar]

Mandela effect. They never removed it 😭

[slow wharf]

Buggy and failure don't mean the same, Destiny has had unintended features, meta altering, and silly things for nearly all It's life span. They patch something and another thing comes undone.

[crystal mural]

play anything else and its the same

[wintry isle]

This is why i dont like trying aruge ppl are so disingenuous

They lie just to win

[potent pawn]

I don’t know what it’s like on launch day in the first few hours cuz I have a job

[near hearth]

most games dont push out new content that does not even function

[near hearth]

launch days are saturdays 🙏🏻

[mellow heron]

I heard they stole art somehow?

[crystal mural]

i also have thousands of hours and cant say i relate to your experiences at all.

[potent pawn]

But the game freaking works stop pretending it doesn’t! What the heck people. You can turn it on and play and do stuff! It literally works!! Actually!

[wintry isle]

If you dont know then you dont know just dont say its not the case

[verbal bear]

My bad, snap skating was patched, not a well skating

[potent pawn]

I’m talking about tuesdays

[near hearth]

fair

[slow wharf]

My days off align with releases, maybe you could ask the day off In advance

[crystal mural]

yeah weekly resets with downtime arent a big deal to me

[wintry isle]

U know right they have a bug list lol

We know most of the bugs that are listed and also theres the bungie forums

[snow ember]

no delay in the world will get this game a good pr. the release of marathon is going to be one the most hostile environment you ever witnessed.

[potent pawn]

Known issues, yeah. And?

[oblique cedar]

Check #marathon-news

[crystal mural]

yeah and thats a damn shame, i see a lot of the hate as being quite over exclaimed by a bunch of know it all, non-chill weirdos

[tall pulsar]

its going to be hostile no matter what I just think that there be less anger if they delay it

[crystal mural]

dont assign your personality to a game and if it comes out bad, just go play something else.

[potent pawn]

I’m not saying the game is like absolutely perfect with 0 flaws. But it works and literally everything works. You want a buggy game? Try star citizen. That game IS buggy! Destiny 2 is not!

[verbal bear]

Purely depends on state of the game

[deep patio]

SC is still buggy after all these years? Damn

[slow wharf]

Less hostile If they do things right

[near hearth]

except destiny has been out for years, isnt in alpha, and no crazy tech is being developed for it

[potent pawn]

Very buggy

[verbal bear]

Not as buggy as it was before, but still mostly unplayable xd

[deep patio]

Lol

[near hearth]

it's fairly stable since server meshing and 4.0, you do need a supercomputer tho

[potent pawn]

So you agree it’s not buggy. Thanks. Not that I needed you to agree because it’s freaking obvious and everyone knows!!!

[wintry isle]

Ur actually so disingenuous

Its honestly so sad to see

[crystal mural]

it has bugs but its not that buggy.

[near hearth]

comparing sc and d2 is like comparing a banana to a shoelace

[potent pawn]

Lol no you have no idea. I love star citizen. It is extremely buggy

[near hearth]

almost like I said "stable" and not "buggy"

[slow wharf]

Should bungie add fortnite darth vader ai to Inquire about racial slurs guys? Is this a good step towards playability

[near hearth]

compared to pre 4.0 you can at least play

[jaunty crystal]

think its time for a fresh run of ocarina of time now that the Switch 2 is 2 weeks away

[potent pawn]

Buggy means you are just trying to play and things don’t work. Destiny 2 does work. Even when there’s a bug it’s like some perk is more powerful than it should be or less, but it still works and it’s not significant. If it is significant it’s fixed in like hours and then it’s good again. They are doing a good job lol

[verbal bear]

I personally like the old films with all the racial slurls and stereotypes, so sounds like a really good way to attract more players

[near hearth]

if it's significant they disable it for a month

[crystal mural]

they do a good job. i cant accept people saying destiny 2 is buggy when Bethesda exist.

[potent pawn]

What have I said that isn’t true?

[wintry isle]

The problem i have is the standards have dropped they have alot more bugs for launch days these days

[potent pawn]

Exactly

[wintry isle]

And some bugs dont get fixed for months

[near hearth]

the issue is they are getting worse, not better

[crystal mural]

that is everything that comes out atm

[slow wharf]

Games used to release completed

[potent pawn]

Are they now

[slow wharf]

Now they uh, yeah.

[wintry isle]

It wasnt as bad before

[crystal mural]

everything has gotten worse, thats not unique to Bungie or Destiny.

[wintry isle]

Launch days were alot smoother

[potent pawn]

Oh yeah back my day

[verbal bear]

Fair, before steam greenlight and early access stuff

[potent pawn]

When games came out in the past, you were stuck with the bugs permanently

[wintry isle]

I dont mind bugs i just want them to get fixed soon rather than later

[crystal mural]

im an oldhead, games used to get recalled buddy and if you got a bugged copy of the game you were stuck with it. games are better nowadays.

[deep lantern]

the wonder of things like steam is lost on a lot of people

[wintry isle]

While this is true alot of games actually release unpolished and then try to fix later

[verbal bear]

And tbh i like the early access. Some games like Subnautica, 7d2d, Raft and others wouldn't even launch without early access

[wintry isle]

Cyberpunk is the best example of this strategy

[potent pawn]

Buncha doomsayers in chat. Moron behavior!

[deep lantern]

in cyberpunk’s case I don’t think they had a say in releasing it bugged

[near hearth]

to be fair cyberpunk was delayed 2-3 times

[deep lantern]

there was a very strict holiday deadline, CDPR couldn’t push it back any further even though they needed to

[wintry isle]

Correct shareholders and ultimately there mangement made the decision

[crystal mural]

thats true today, for sure. q&a gets a lot less focus and budget becuase gamers have shown they really dont mind something unpolished if its good and most of the people who bring a game to market have to believe the game is good.

[wintry isle]

And imo it hurt the company even more

[wintry isle]

Yes but there is a limit you cant release a product that is not playable like cyberpunk or red fall

[deep lantern]

it’s funny how you can always blame the ones who aren’t involved in making the game for these kinds of situations

almost like there’s a pattern to it..:

[verbal bear]

(Q&A and QA are different)

[crystal mural]

i fell in love with cyberpunk at release despite it being buggy, so did others. the potential was there and look at how they changed it up eventually.

nuance

[wintry isle]

Oh ik it wasnt the devs fault the game needed at least 1 to 2 years more time

[crystal mural]

you are right, sorry

[loud flint]

thats some hard copium

[slow wharf]

Cyberpunk ost not bad I'm listening to a like supreme right now 🙏

[verbal bear]

No worries man, just can bit a bit confusing sometimes

[loud flint]

they dont have the same budget as cyberpunk buddy

[deep lantern]

ah yes, someone’s opinion on a game being copium, truly a great thinker of our time

it baffles me that the hate train has as much fuel it does because most people riding it don’t even have a good argument besides just being reductive

[potent pawn]

I should make a veo3 video of some former Bungie employee trashing the company while their manager yells at them for not making big macs fast enough

[slow wharf]

Oh hey signalis

[deep lantern]

hi hello it is me MYNAH

[crystal mural]

i think people are traumatized, its not their fault. but a reminder that people make games, people aspire to work for a game studio their whole life and try their best. its up to us to remember thats a huge factor when a creative project is embarked upon.

the internet makes it easy to remove the human element of creativity

[potent pawn]

“Oooh Paul tassi is gonna eat this up” “ain’t no one gonna be eating nothin if you don’t flip those burgers”

[loud flint]

• you comparing too different genres cyberpunk is action-adventure (GTA type) with a niche genre which is Marathon. its like you comparing pineapple with idk salmon

extraction shooters are wack

[near hearth]

one is an rpg, one is an extraction shooter, they are both massive genres

[verbal bear]

Extraction shooters deserve to die in current iteration

[deep lantern]

i say it’s less trauma and more just willingness to hop on the bandwagon

[verbal bear]

Extremely niche, impossible to properly balance, doesn't work without progress wipes

(But im still addicted to that shit)

[twilit otter]

Releasing in September was already a contentious idea. Now with then having to audit all their art+people feeling the game isn’t living up to its potential even from developers in the company…it needs a delay

[potent pawn]

People love the drama! And the doom!

[loud flint]

I think extraction shooters are niche compared to like GTA or CS or dota/lol ... + people will pick the better game which is arc raiders not art raiders

[verbal bear]

Arc raiders isn't really better or worse, it is a bit different

[loud flint]

its objectively better buddy

[deep lantern]

yap yap yap, do you have any criticism with substance in it

[near hearth]

you are comparing games to genres, extraction shooters are def smaller than gta, but idk why you would even compare them

[potent pawn]

It’s 3rd person

[deep lantern]

it’s a bit fatty at the moment

[crystal mural]

lil bro thinks his opinions are fact lol

[slow wharf]

Arc raiders reminds me of darkzones In Division

[loud flint]

its not me that compared them its this guy --> @crystal mural

[silent tangle]

marathon Discord server try not to be a cesspool of pointless arguing 24/7 challenge difficulty impossible

[crystal mural]

wtf?? i was responding to someone else, tell me you are arguing for arguing sake lol

[verbal bear]

Is it? They just had more content and more polished beta. You should compare them on release

Also i really hate tpp and awful gunplay

[high scaffold]

/DAC

[deep lantern]

on the plus side we have people who actually have reached a consensus

[loud flint]

@verbal bear sorry but I am someone who compare games on beta ? PROBLEM ?

[near hearth]

/DAC

[silent tangle]

blow them all up

[deep lantern]

(and you, the vitally needed lesbian in this discussion)

[verbal bear]

Yup, problem, because they are in different development state

[deep lantern]

what!!!!

[silent tangle]

heh. ......

[potent pawn]

Art raiders > arc raiders

[verbal bear]

It is like comparing dough to bread, idk

[loud flint]

the alpha/beta its like the skeleton of the game, if the skeleton sucks .. they can add as many features it still suck. You get it ?

[crystal mural]

arc raiders was extremely mid, i played it myself. i found it to be mid and the only noise was all the people having more reason to shit on marathon.

[deep lantern]

okay but

have you actually played either of these

[loud flint]

if you build a cake if your ganache taste like shit, you can add as many toppings as you like it will still taste like shit

[potent pawn]

Marathon was always going to have more players than arc raiders. But that’s exactly why arc raiders sentiment is so good. They are the littler guy

[silent tangle]

it's gonna be that lesbian game isn't it

[deep lantern]

you’re talking like you have, so i’d assume you know a good bit about gameplay in either arc raiders or marathon

[crystal mural]

but arc raiders sucked literally 8 months ago.... and they turned it around by your own admission

[silent tangle]

signalisis or whatever

[twilit otter]

Can’t compare games from what they could be. Currently. Arc raiders is better. Marathon needs to prove itself. Don’t glaze for the sake of it

[silent tangle]

I need to play that actually....

[verbal bear]

Subjective, Marathon's skeleton doesn't suck at all. For me, thirt person on extraction shooters sounds way worse as a skeleton. I had enough WarZ and Division corner camping

[loud flint]

timing matters if Marathon succeed it will be a MIRACLE

[crystal mural]

signalis is great

[silent tangle]

ykw else is great..........

[slow wharf]

Signalis was too short for me I need more of It

[verbal bear]

Ans can't compare games on different dev stages. It isn't objective

[deep lantern]

MY MOM!!!!

[potent pawn]

Can we coin MDS and BDS? Marathon and Bungie Derangement Syndrome

[verbal bear]

Comparing uncomparable

[slow wharf]

Signalis 5: the signal is real

[crystal mural]

not really, if marathon succeeds its just because grifters and weirdos like you moved onto hate somethin g else

[silent tangle]

can confirm, she was a 10/10 will be seeing her again

[deep lantern]

i mean you can just call people susceptible to the hate grift

[twilit otter]

Can do. It’s a competitor from a smaller studio. It’s always up for comparison.

[wintry isle]

Bungie has had a bad rep over the years

[silent tangle]

everyone arguing when we should be uniting in the battle for super earth

[potent pawn]

Ya it’s a syndrome

[loud flint]

@crystal mural if a game is good, its good factually and objectively. yapping doesnt matter. how about we do a bet? if Marathon succeed I'll suck you dry

[slow wharf]

For Super Earth

[silent tangle]

Exactly we need to come together and save super earth

[summer apex]

FOR SUPER EARTH

[slow wharf]

I think we already defended super earth ngl

[potent pawn]

Yeah, like people saying their games are buggy when they aren’t

[silent tangle]

FOR FREEDOM

[slow wharf]

If not It's just one city left, there were only 2 cities left when I got on like 13 hours after the drop

[deep lantern]

it’s honestly just preferable to not do what people on the other side of things do, you have a brain for a reason

[crystal mural]

you lost argument now want to nosh my tip, you are gross dude. please exit chat

[summer apex]

PROTECT ALL SEAF SOLDIERS AND VOTERS

[deep lantern]

get a room already

[slow wharf]

WHAT

Where Is the goon chair I need to see this

[silent tangle]

idk man i just work here

[verbal bear]

Arc Raiders being developed for 4 years, changed their gameplay cycle, and had an awful 1st playtest in 2023

Lets compare their 1st playtest to the Marathon, would be way more fair i think

[deep lantern]

i was not expecting the threat of being sucked off to be the final straw

[potent pawn]

This degraded really fast

[silent tangle]

I think arc raiders is dumb and gay actually blow up the studio

[deep lantern]

or really that threat at all

[wintry isle]

Marathon pivoted its direction when joe came as director

[deep lantern]

counterpoint: I’M dumb and gay

[silent tangle]

yeah but im not gonna blow you

[potent pawn]

Look at this guy, coming in with some reasonable thoughts

[ashen lava]

countercounterpoint: I'm dumber AND gayer

[deep lantern]

KIIIIILLLLLLLLLLL

[loud flint]

ok question ? when arc raiders extract they go to an underground city to feed their families. when runners extract where they go ?

[crystal mural]

so factually that awful playtest was what, 8 months before the recent one. they are a smaller studio than bungie- so why is it that people dont think marathon can come out strong in 6 months when it has triple the people working on it (roughly). sure does reek of hypocrisy and double standards.

[ashen lava]

u can try

[verbal bear]

It was 20 month before the recent one

[silent tangle]

glitch and blackbird go into my bed