NERF GOLIATH!!!

[spiral star]

@icy marlin not saying to remove ccs btw, but rather rebalance properly bc rn it’s busted

[icy marlin]

no its not

its nerfed

[prime valley]

CCS is half the speed it used to be

[icy marlin]

it lost like haalf of its speed

[swift jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-meme-trying-not-to-laugh-laugh-homeless-gif-9458928528704746136

[spiral star]

It’s still busted

[swift jasper]

are we on the fent?

[spiral star]

I’ve already played

[icy marlin]

might be

[spiral star]

And I’m not ab to argue here with a bunch of Goliath mains

[prime valley]

why are you complaining about goliath when theres potato beetle which is arguably one of the fastest in the game, says fuck you if you try score with a non cracked gold, and can fling a ball with twice the speed of dung tech into goal from anywhere on the map

[spiral star]

Ang ig u are right half the speed but now u can launch the ball with Perry half way across the map of of that speed

[spiral star]

Bc it’s new and in testing

[prime valley]

goliaths good but its most definitely not op

[spiral star]

It needs proper balancing as well but it’s not as impactful bc not many ppl play it yet

[icy marlin]

it is balanced now

just like every other beetle

every beetle is op if ur good at it

[prime valley]

especially when like click can get even more speed than CCS by click launching and can get the same speed as parrying the ball with click shot, but with 1/10th the setup

[spiral star]

That’s not the problem read again what I wrote and what the point is

It’s that it has too many passives

Direct or non direct

And basically no good counter at this point

Bc before it would be to stun it which u can’t do anymore

Than when u couldn’t it would be to outrun it bc it wasn’t fast

But now

Neither

And on top of that it can shoot balls like crazy

[prime valley]

parry is an ability and has a cooldown as well as being nearly never used to avoid stuns, summing it up as "no stun" is stupid as shit, also you cant even come close to perma stunning since you need to be a full flutters height for it to stun, flinging balls with Q takes a lot of time to setup and is easy as shit to stop, as well it, again, being an ability, half the beetles in the game have ways to go faster than CCS with much less requirements

defending with slam is really difficult, headbutt grabbing works with every beetle

[spiral star]

That’s why I said on top.. and no it is not you just have to time it which is basically like bomba shot (accept it’s ranged) or click (accept u can do it in the air)

[icy marlin]

this is the point of the aability

[sharp crest]

The CCS does NOT need to get nerfed but the off ball needs to get fixed since if a Goliath uses a shield bash on another Goliath and the other Goliath uses its off ball, the speed from the shield bash will cause the ball to phase through the other Goliath’s shield

[prime valley]

thats also not even to mention its easy to stop since you have to poweshot it up and wait for it to fall onto you

[spiral star]

Well by calling it Perry you kind of imply it’s defensive and I see it used offensively all the time

[prime valley]

a parry doesnt have to be purely defensive

[spiral star]

No
Obey does it differently

[icy marlin]

click is used defensive too same with eeb rhino aand stuff

[sharp crest]

Often parries can be used to stun

[prime valley]

nearly no ability in this game is purely defensive

rhino wall stuns, ebb wall is an amazing bait and is height, etc etc

[spiral star]

But a Perry uses opponents movements and counters them and Goliath can use it alone

[spiral star]

Yes I agree but Goliath has multiple of this abilities

AND THATS MY FREAKING POINT

[spiral star]

It’s changed

But obey can basically just use Perry to aim the ball in the air Mike a momentum transfer and shoot it into goal

He really just needs speed to do it

And it scales even faster

[prime valley]

what do you mean "multiple of this ability"

[spiral star]

Slam both def and offensive and Perry both def and offensive (and its defensive in more than one way)

And than on top of that it has offensive off ball

[prime valley]

slam is easy to dodge on offense and nearly never works on defense

[prime valley]

barely

[icy marlin]

clicks ability can be used for defending

[spiral star]

Than remove it and I’ll be satisfied… it it doesn’t get much use

And it’s used to the stars to interrupt

Which is offensive

(Not only by goal)

[prime valley]

the off ball is defense, clickshot bypass AND snipe, click boost, click launch and the best height ability in the game

[spiral star]

But it’s just one

[ebon cobalt]

I think goliath can be nerfed but the nerf would be the offball q
ccs is fine

[spiral star]

WHY CANT U GE TTHAT IL NOT TALKING AB THE ABILITIES THEMSELVES BUT RATHER THE AMOUNT OF THEN

[icy marlin]

rhino offensive is better golaith offence

[spiral star]

But rhino is flimsy and very ping dependent now

[ebon cobalt]

ebb can dive tech infinitely as well
potato can potato cannon infinitely

[prime valley]

it has 2 abilities and a slam which is useless if you just avoid it

[spiral star]

They nerfed dive and it’s not viable

[icy marlin]

its not

[ebon cobalt]

its still viable
just has to be set up differently

[prime valley]

I'm the #1 rhino and get 200 - 350 ping in every match 😭

[spiral star]

U can’t always

[spiral star]

More like the opponent

Where they pinggrab on ball

So u spike without the ball

[spiral star]

Which makes it unviable bc the setup isn’t worth it

Or too long

[ebon cobalt]

all the dive techs ive seen have had no setup, the ebb is already in the sky since thats where ebb usually is

[spiral star]

Too op abilities plus a flimsy one that can occasionally make or break the game

Something no other beetle has

[ebon cobalt]

but is missing glide

missing glide is pretty huge

[spiral star]

Which it makes up with the op abilities plus.. glide is used for speed.. and now it has ccs which ig requires setup but u can’t glide anywhere either and its often not as fast anyway

[ebon cobalt]

glide is the fastest offball movement in the game

[spiral star]

Plus don’t forget the passives 2x head bud stun plus it can avoid stuns

[prime valley]

slam is not even close to as good as glide

[spiral star]

Ur competing it wrong imo.. ccs is

[prime valley]

avoiding stuns is a stretch given it basically is never used to block stuns

[prime valley]

CCS is a tech like se4 is

[ebon cobalt]

even with ccs goliath is slower than the speedster beetles

[spiral star]

I’ve seen it used of that and it counters certain beetles

Bomba which is not a stun and rhino stun

[spiral star]

But Goliath is not a speedster beetle

That’s the point

[ebon cobalt]

goliath is a defender with alt class reverser

[spiral star]

Where he does both just as good or defense better than some other beetles

[spiral star]

Yes

But where the reverser is so good it can outclass some other beetle is crazy a specially considering it is one of the best defenders

It really doesn’t lack anywhere

And that’s the problem

The kit is too versatile while being good or really good for some stuff

There’s no holes to slip trough

[ebon cobalt]

the by far strongest part of the kit is the offball q which is the one I think should be nerfed

[spiral star]

I agree

It already has tho

[prime valley]

your point of goliath "having 3 abilities" is literally just it having a passive

[spiral star]

It has multiple

[icy marlin]

say them¨

[prime valley]

does rhino have 3 since it can launch people away with headbutt, does click have 3 since it basically has perma fungus onb

[prime valley]

yeah and one without the other would make it useless, your point?

[ebon cobalt]

axo the goliath ramp tech still exists right?

[spiral star]

Stun perrying literally any other ability bomba rhino and any of the fast ones

[prime valley]

goliaths strong but its not even close to OP when click can do everything goliath can do on offense but significantly better while being barely worse on defense

[prime valley]

not to my knowledge

[icy marlin]

say what they are

[spiral star]

I really just think that they should make it so that the Perry can’t be used in offense by Goliath himself

[prime valley]

its shit at offense

its so easy to stop

[spiral star]

No it’s not

Go play against @frozen orchid

[prime valley]

I've never had a goliath score on me with a parry snipe because I just stop it

[prime valley]

every time I've played against him I've 3-0d

[spiral star]

He flings that shit with little to no setup faster than my clickshot

[ebon cobalt]

parry instead of a regrab is typically better than parry snipe

[prime valley]

parry goalie bypass is just easier regrab

[rigid lintel]

4v1 bru 😭😭

[prime valley]

except with like a 20 second cd instead of a half a second CD

[spiral star]

Not when u just got reversal going on and ur not on goal

[ebon cobalt]

to be fair cooldown doesnt mean much when it gets reset by the goal anyways lol

[spiral star]

I have longer cooldowns on click

And I thought they r short

[ebon cobalt]

nah click and goliath cds are similar

[spiral star]

22 and 25

[prime valley]

clicks cooldowns are shorter than goliaths

[ebon cobalt]

anything in the 20s range is pretty much the same

[spiral star]

Perry in its current state should have much longer cooldown

[spiral star]

Exactly

I can’t even attempt two clickshota in a span of one Perry

[prime valley]

clicks abilities are shorter with more and better uses with less setup for the uses with a better passive

what is your point

[spiral star]

How is that fair

[ebon cobalt]

???????

[rigid lintel]

u can tho

[ebon cobalt]

my bad caps

but dont do two clicks then lol

[spiral star]

But I need setup

[rigid lintel]

[spiral star]

I really need height to do a good click shot

[ebon cobalt]

?????

[prime valley]

dawg what

[rigid lintel]

how would it be fair if you could click shot without any setup

[ebon cobalt]

you do not need height for a clickshot

[prime valley]

clickshot is less than 1/5th the setup of goliath parry

[ebon cobalt]

ive scored on picnic at ground level across the map

[spiral star]

Well Goliath can Perry without any setup

[prime valley]

no it cant???

[spiral star]

THATS crazy luck

And clearly there was no good goalie

[ebon cobalt]

no its not lol, its knowing clickshot trajectories

[prime valley]

if you think thats luck then you have crazy skill issue

[ebon cobalt]

it would be more luck if it was a snipe from potato beetle since those are a bit harder to aim

[spiral star]

Sorry mister Astro physician… but I’m not 15 and have a life… I might just quit at this point

[prime valley]

potato beetle snipes are so consistent and east to do from any point on the map

[icy marlin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1272422771644825661/1292284049775263744/download.gif

[ebon cobalt]

can they be aimed?

[prime valley]

dawg its not that difficult

[prime valley]

they can

and very well

[ebon cobalt]

oh nice

alright thats my outdated day 1 potato knowledge then

[ebon cobalt]

click is one of the harder offense beetles to play if youre going for far clickshots though

there are easier things to play

at a high level it balances out since people are better at click

[edgy valve]

@magic hearth humble this guy

[ebon cobalt]

anyways my overall opinion is goliath is one of the stronger beetles in the meta atm so can get a nerf but maybe not in ccs since thats not its strongest part of the kit

[prime valley]

even if you go for far click shots and miss its still gonna be on their side of the map near their goal and you're gonna have significantly more height than the enemy

[ebon cobalt]

depends on where you shoot it from

but yeah

[frozen orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/beetlejuice-meme-gif-13835284389809173430

[frozen orchid]

that’s because your way better gang

[ebon cobalt]

btw ccs isnt a new thing, its existed since the playtest
and is worse than back then

[spiral star]

Ik gang

Btw sry for arguing this much.. Goliath is just very frustrating to play against

[ebon cobalt]

yeah understandable lol

[spiral star]

Just enjoy yourselfs

[ebon cobalt]

I think goliath decimates low elo lobbies atm

along with ladybug

[spiral star]

Same with Perry tho

And Perry is better bc it provides a passive and it can’t be penetrated like if u would try to defend with a click

And if it can snipe just like a click than I’m sorry but that is op…. But I’m tired of this and I think I might just take a break tbf…

[ebon cobalt]

depending on angle you can shoot the ball away from enemy with click which works pretty well
I usually just use it for defense by hitting it from the side though which cant be regrabbed as well (from side since it would be me going back to net to support from a forward position)

[spiral star]

I try to go out and intercept not giving them time for setup (like I would playing support)

Works like a charm

But if u miss than ur cooked

[prime valley]

goliath has the slowest ofb movement in the game

[spiral star]

Horizontally

[prime valley]

if you miss a parry which you most likely will since its really difficult you just give them the ball

[prime valley]

yeah maps generally are horizontal not vertical

[icy marlin]

its worse upward since they nerfed on ball

[spiral star]

Ik it does not matter but still

[spiral star]

Usually it’s like that that a bad character has one specific scenario when it’s good

But Goliath has two

Aka when it has the ball and when it defends

Or during a reversal and when it defends

[ebon cobalt]

most beetles have more than 1

ebb for example can be played both defensively and aggro

[spiral star]

I’m talking about a specific type of character in most games

Not just beetle ball

[spiral star]

But it’s not crazy good or broken in either

[ebon cobalt]

its the best waller atm and can make better aggro plays than half of the cast

[spiral star]

It’s ok but not crazy to the point where if ur good u can make it viable but someone with the same skill level on a specialized beetle can easily beat u

[spiral star]

Also wall can be countered and it’s hard to say the same for the Perry

It’s like the fungus defense

Bc u couldn’t do anything about it accept going and breaking the damn things

[ebon cobalt]

nah parry can be countered by waiting it out

its on a timer

[spiral star]

Baiting same for fungus

[spiral star]

Ik

But

U could go out of your way and break the shrooms

Which u can’t do with the Perry

Which is why I think it’s an ok comparison

Buttt

It’s ok since Goliath is a goalie

[ebon cobalt]

theoretically a disruptor can mess with a goliath similar to how it can mess with an ebb wall

[spiral star]

But at the same time it’s really good offensively

Which TO ME does not seem balanced

And they did remove fungus bc of that so I think the should nerf Goliath offense in some way (does not have to be ccs)

But the offensive Perry for example

[spiral star]

With bomba u can erase a ebb wall

Perry can deflect it

[spiral star]

Same with firefly

And firefly stuns but Perry makes it so u can’t stun…. That’s not the point

Goliath is a goalie so it’s fine

The way Perry snipes are is the problem imo

Bc now ccs is slower so u can outrun it but if they ccs and proceed to Perry snipe u can’t do shit

(If u don’t have a goalie)

I think that another solution would be to introduce a beetle with very good ground movement bc see4 or click launch are aerials so they are good ball movement but they are vulnerable to lady for example

But ccs is mostly ground movement and lady can’t keep up with that

But if we introduced a counter in form of a beetle that for example can move really fast ON THE GROUND WITHOUT THE BALL that I think would make it more balanced

Or something like the click but vertical.. bc when u try to chase a Goliath with other beetles the problem is that you are faster but u need to get height first which makes the distance to travel a lot

[prime valley]

firefly has snipes as well and one of the only 2 wall bypasses in the game

[spiral star]

So it doesn’t matter if ur faster bc in order to go faster u need to travel greater distance

[spiral star]

(THATS not the point) also firefly only stuns and snipes tbf so its not broken in multiple fields but rather specializes in offense

[ebon cobalt]

dung?

[prime valley]

it stuns snipes and can launch itself miles up with its onb as well as being the best disruptor and has one of only the 2 wall bypasses in the game, while also being the only wall bypass that doesnt require being near the wall as well as its on ball being the only anti steal

when I list out its properties like that it sounds overpowered just like how you list out goliaths properties to make it sound overpowered, difference is that my points on firefl werent exaggerated as fuck or just downright false

[prime valley]

dung

[prime valley]

the parry is very very rarely used to block stuns

[prime valley]

the parry snipe requires a setup during which you can catch up

[prime valley]

dung beetle and also fungus as well technically

[spiral star]

Without the ball

[ebon cobalt]

still dung

flutter dash

[spiral star]

THATS just a longer dash… I meant more fluid movement so you can actually chase someone

[spiral star]

The problem is that firefly is not actually that good in practice as Goliath is… it’s only good in certain scenarios and one of goliaths strengths enables the other

[spiral star]

Or maybe it’s that there’s only one good player on firefly

[spiral star]

I said without the balllll!!!

[prime valley]

yeah still fast without the ball

flutter dash diagonal headbutt

[spiral star]

Fungus?

[prime valley]

and flutter dash is 7.5s

[spiral star]

In what universe

[prime valley]

tiny cooldown on a good vertical height ability gives good gliding

[spiral star]

But gliding is countered on cluttered maps there ground movement beetles shine

THATS also why dung isn’t really good for that either

Bc it gets easily stuck

[spiral star]

And you see if u say that my statements are false or exaggerated I could also say that y’all’s solutions to these things are also exaggerated or downright false or inconsistant or unviable

[rigid lintel]

this shit is still going on? 😭

[spiral star]

Yes

@cerulean mason just get on here and settle this.. pls

[rigid lintel]

hate to say it man but i dont think youre winning ts

[spiral star]

THATS ok

[rigid lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-black-cat-yellow-cat-middle-east-cat-angry-cat-gif-26118862

[prime valley]

https://medal.tv/games/beetleball/clips/m4RV3KTPPnsRoR5eM?invite=cr-MSxlMGIsMjU5MTcxNTA5&v=6

[prime valley]

you say it has a snipe and also a stun immunity, but the snipe and stun block are both on the same 25 second cooldown, you also say it has 3 abilities despite the fact it very much doesnt

[prime valley]

"I could also say that y’all’s solutions to these things are also exaggerated or downright false or inconsistant or unviable" do it then

[spiral star]

See how you were already going fast and had height

[prime valley]

you can do the same thing with one headbutt up

[spiral star]

But it’s that headbud that makes u slow bc u have to travers more distance

[prime valley]

I dont believe the prior speed to it significantly affects the speed you get from the diagonal shroom

[spiral star]

Also see how that’s still the problem

[prime valley]

there's no map cluttered enough for that to be an issue

only MAYBE picnic

even so its still fine

[spiral star]

And crater which is also UNSYMMETRICAL

[prime valley]

crater is not at all cluttered

just go on the logs or on the sides

[sharp crest]

bro Goliath is not op, Norways just way too cracked at it

[spiral star]

Nga it’s not even Emil that pisses me off

He’s chill

[prime valley]

beetle is op cuz #1 player on beetle is good

[spiral star]

And does not do crazy overpowered shit

[edgy valve]

bro what did goliath do to you

[sharp crest]

cooked him ig

[spiral star]

Same thing as tiger

[spiral star]

It’s the same as Dan on tiger

[sharp crest]

I feel like ur confusing what ur prefrences are to VS and what would actually be beneficial for the game

[spiral star]

Matthew please read trough first

Thoroughly

[sharp crest]

im out, yall deal with ts ✌️

[prime valley]

he's been here the whole time

and he's very right lmao

[spiral star]

No

He has not

[sharp crest]

tf bro mean no 🥀

[prime valley]

he was one of the first 15 messages

[spiral star]

Just stop rage baiting bc as I said I have no energy to argue over ts anymore

[prime valley]

yeah because you're fucking wrong 😭

[sharp crest]

not everything is rage bait 😭

[prime valley]

literally every person who has typed in here except you has disagreed

[spiral star]

But he hasn’t been here actively reading the arguments

[prime valley]

he's in call with me and emil 😭

[spiral star]

Not entirely but sure

And that is 5
Maybe

[covert grail]

If you want Goliath nerfed so bad then do it already 🥱

[prime valley]

ategon didnt completely agree with you but he still disagree

there;s 8 X's and 0 reactions agreeing with you

[spiral star]

And he didn’t completely disagree either

[icy marlin]

thats just whaa he said

[prime valley]

yeah that's what I said

he didnt completely disagree with nerfing goliath but he still disagreed with your points

[sharp crest]

yes, thank u

[spiral star]

Just stfu I’m done

[covert grail]

I think when other beetles have passives Goliath will kind of fall out

[prime valley]

yeah good, stop arguing over stupid shit you dont have any non debunked points for

[icy marlin]

unc u made the fucknig suggestion

[spiral star]

Took it down happy,,,

?

[prime valley]

what does the ratio have to be for you to realize you're wrong, cuz rn its like 7 people to 1

[sharp crest]

bro gettin pressed for mf's geunially disagreeing with him

[sharp crest]

no 🥀

nobody cared, they just disagreed

cuz thats kinda how a convo works

[icy marlin]

u cant make a suggestion argue wwwith it and then delete it

[prime valley]

tryna nerf goliath when there's like 4 beetles that are overpowered and need nerfing desperately