map interacting tech

[lofty bloom]

I think that one of the biggest problems with beetleball rn is the fact that almost all of the movement tech is independent of the map. Was playing with foolian a few days ago and he hit the headbutt grab click jump double p diddy flick tech until his ass was touching the skybox with the ball, and although its cool to have difficult to perform tech like that, the problem is that it's completely independent of pretty much anything. Most tech in the game (momentum transfers, ebb wallhops, the dung flutter stuff, etc) can be done anywhere, regardless of location or even what map you're playing on. This leads to the game lacking variety way more than it should, and the map design matters far less when you don't need to care where platforms and walls are to do tech.

The cool thing about map-dependent tech like grappling hooks or wall running is that it's very intuitive, but it always provides a completely different puzzle depending on where you are. If you have to move forward with ebb, you can just wallhop whether you on gamba or picnic or crater or anything, but if you had a grappling hook you would have to find a wall perpendicular to where you want to go. Just changing your position leads to unique puzzles you have to do in the split second that vastly increase the replayability of using it, while still being super intuitive. It easily solves like 5 problems in ability design that are normally super hard to work around.

Increasing movement speed and headbutt force actually made the map interactivity a lot better already. It felt like the maps before were too big, and it was difficult to go from geometry to geometry easily, but now the new headbutt can easily reach from the ground to the top gamba platform or from the pyramid to the obelisk at the map center. when you headbutt glide now it feels like you actually have to look where you are going to land and plan accordingly. Places on the map actually matter now, like i usually juggle the ball around one of the corners of of the tall gamba platforms while waiting for an opportunity to score. It's definitely not where it could be but it feels so much better than the playtest (mostly, we'll get to that).

So here's my suggestions

1. let the beetle "skid" for around half a second after landing, instead of stopping instantly. This does two things:

a. slide offs
If you glide into the ground horizontally just near an edge, entering the airborne state before the ground finishes slowing you down will cause you to rocket horizontally through the air, removing all downwards movement. This is a really cool way to gain horizontal speed without moving downwards, and it can only be done at the edges of maps. This means that if you're chasing someone or juggling a ball you have to find the closest platform edge if you want to do this tech, and might have to go out of the way slightly for it. It forces you to think about the map and use the map to your advantage, instead of just letting you do the tech in the air.

b. b-hopping (less sure about this one)
with this (unless explicitly removed) you can jump after landing while going fast to retain your momentum. A jumpsquat animation or something could be added to make this worse than the previous tech.

While thinking about this, one of the problems I realized is that the maps are just too big. It's hella boring to have someone score on an empty net because no one was there and no one knew, and it's also boring immediately lose because you let someone get past you. It takes away so much interactivity from the players as sometimes you don't even see half of the people in the lobby.

"so make the maps smaller" there's actually something cooler you can do. Because increasing acceleration scales with distance squared, adding a constant form of acceleration (which steadily increasing velocity with b-hops and gliding/headbutting basically is) allows the beetle to cross large distances far faster, while keeping speed over short distances relatively the same. The mechanics and map layout won't have to be changed, as blocking goals and stealing balls will feel the same. The only change will be you can reach the other side of the map in like 5 seconds.

The only thing this removes from the game is it makes positioning less important. I feel that punishing people for bad positioning in this game over a large scale (eg letting a ball into the goal bc you left it to get a rabbit drop) is really boring and not what beetleball is about. In addition, it would make being goalie far more interesting as you won't be punished for going to the center of the map to interact with the other players. Also, beetles without movement abilities will be far more fun (weevil will be far better, and most of the other non s-tier beetles will also be stronger)

2. wall bouncing

There is also very little tech that interacts with walls in the game. Although there are very few of them, it would be cool to see the ability to mix up your movement when moving quickly into a wall during onball by increasing the outwards velocity of the jump. I'm not sure about the specifics, but more wall interaction when holding a ball would be awesome

3. map change

I feel like the map geometry for everything except gamba is just so flat. There's so much verticality available to the player, with the new mechanics, and most of the maps have nowhere to go. I'd love to see more vertical additions to crater and picnic that allow the beetle to glide from platform to platform instead of just the big center thing. bk's playpen would probably play amazing in the demo, despite how large it felt before, due to the fact that you can headbutt between the center platforms and take advantage of its verticality

this is longer than the essay i am procrastinating writing rn by a factor of 2

[livid tartan]

Ima use chat gpt for my ideas and ask it to make an essay out of them so I can get the “big thinker” role aswell

Or I’ll just pay u beetlecoins to lengthen them for me

[hollow plaza]

People be like here's a suggestion then post a essay

[lofty bloom]

I did not get finger pain from typing this just to face chatgpt allegations

[livid tartan]

There are no allegations, I’m saying ima use chat GPT

I just meant so I can use chat GPT to “get the role aswell”, not “use chat gpt and get the role aswell”

[lofty bloom]

Nuin will probably remove my role after this

I would not suggest it

[lofty bloom]

Yeah ai sucks

[void loom]

Tsdr

[hollow plaza]

What the hecky cucky

My home address is 4015 Factoria Blvd SE, Bellevue, WA 98006 btw

[void loom]

@warped plaza

[livid tartan]

Bro lives by Factoria, imagine😭 🙏🏻

[livid tartan]

@livid tartan

[void loom]

I actually messaged my alt not myself

[livid tartan]

I also messaged my alt

Catfishxll alt

[void loom]

No

You did yourself

[livid tartan]

No

[hollow plaza]

<@&1399242121894166549> meep has a ban evading alt

[void loom]

Don’t do that

[void loom]

https://tenor.com/view/touch-you-dog-gif-15875877121285312825

[vestal cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/ai-baby-gloving-degloving-glove-light-gif-7549541925631099066

[livid tartan]

<@&1399242121894166549> meep has a ban evading alt

[hollow plaza]

Holy mod spam

[mossy palm]

I'm pretty sure its just an alt not a ban evading alt

[void loom]

Guys ban them trust

[mossy palm]

very big difference

[void loom]

Yeah

[hollow plaza]

What's the point of it

[void loom]

It’s just an alt guys

[mossy palm]

twice the accounts twice the fun

[void loom]

No need to get all wishi washi

[hollow plaza]

To me it looks like hes planning to ban evade

[livid tartan]

Ban him just to be safe

[hollow plaza]

True

[mossy palm]

you say that while actively using your alt account

[void loom]

Axo it’s for students since n2 is making an announcement for my academy

[livid tartan]

This is my main

That y it’s called

Catfishxll main

[mossy palm]

catfishxll alt

[livid tartan]

Ur just schitzo

[void loom]

Axo

Isn’t the fraud squad so cool

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1326317837815513191/1465188951357919386/FIREFLY_TRIO_FIXED.gif

[hollow plaza]

Cringelord academy 2.0

Cringelord university

[void loom]

Axo he’s being mean

[mossy palm]

I prefer the originals

[void loom]

Not being respectful to everyone

[void loom]

Trueee

Bk

Would you be happy if someone copied you

@hollow plaza

[hollow plaza]

No i dont think I would be meep

[void loom]

Why

[hollow plaza]

🫃

[rancid tendon]

Omg bk made a friend

[hollow plaza]

True

[rancid tendon]

I feel like a proud parent rn

[hollow plaza]

Omg...

[void loom]

BK…

[elder heron]

I agree with this @lofty bloom

I think there should be more interactivity in the maps in general as well

More launchpads etc

[void loom]

Can you add more short roofs like picnic and gamba

Please @elder heron

[lofty bloom]

I lowk hate the cake platter

Always headbutt into it by accident

Might just be me tho

[elder heron]

Wdym

For bomba shots?

[void loom]

Noooo

Never

[void loom]

Yes

[void loom]

Just you imo

[hollow plaza]

Sorry that was weird

[lofty bloom]

I feel like launchpads are just a bandaid fix

[void loom]

Please add more

Please please please

[lofty bloom]

Not that we shouldn't have more map elements but you're like forcing the player to take the one trajectory you want them too

[void loom]

Yeah I agree but we need more roofs like the one on picnic

Or gamba

[lofty bloom]

Wait i just got into que I'll respond in a sec

[hollow plaza]

Its spelt queue

Its easy to spell

[void loom]

TrueK

[hollow plaza]

DeeTrueTrue

[void loom]

Trueeee

Hi phantom

[stable pier]

nuin will remove css and say we should position better then turn around and say adding more map dependent movement is a good idea to adjust position

hi dee

[void loom]

Yeah well he should add more roofs like the ones on picnic or gamba

[stable pier]

maybe after he fixes me wasting my bomb the second another person touches the ball while I'm trapped in my animation while I grab for se4

[hollow plaza]

Ragetom

[lofty bloom]

Was actually about to glaze ur map

[stable pier]

my name isn't tom

[lofty bloom]

what i feel like you should go for is making the game completely different if someone's position is changed very slightly

[void loom]

Yeah I agree

[hollow plaza]

Bkpps play pen is dead and buried

[void loom]

But we should have more roofs like the ones on picnic and gamba

[lofty bloom]

the mushroom one

[hollow plaza]

🫢

[lofty bloom]

ironically although i'm hating on mushrooms rn i feel like having gaps in the stage forces you to work around them

and there's so many ways to go from platform to platform

[hollow plaza]

Oh you mean bks mishroom kingdom

Yeah I guess

[void loom]

Yeah mushrooms are pretty cool

[hollow plaza]

Yeah im pretty proud of that idea

[void loom]

I think we need more roofs like gamba and picnic though

[hollow plaza]

Fym roofs

[void loom]

Like

Oh mb ty for correcting me bcucky

[lofty bloom]

if ur set on mushrooms you can also allow more trajectory options on them which does not sound fun to code but would be cool

[void loom]

I think we need more ceilings like picnic and gamba

[hollow plaza]

Ceiling to the maps?

[void loom]

No

[tepid lance]

I am fine with the game how it is

[hollow plaza]

Platforms?

[void loom]

Kinda yeah

Thx bcucky

[hollow plaza]

You mean like every map

[void loom]

No

Lower down

[hollow plaza]

Every map has platforms

[void loom]

Like low roofs

But not too low

[hollow plaza]

Lile the logs on craterM

[void loom]

Flat platforms

[hollow plaza]

Or the sand castle

Or the Egypt temple

[tepid lance]

New maps have the potential to change meta just by how they exist

[hollow plaza]

Or the bridge on japan

[void loom]

[stable pier]

bad positioning should be punished

[void loom]

Japan is a pretty good map

[hollow plaza]

True

[stable pier]

leaving the net wide open should be punished

getting beat to a ball should be punished

[hollow plaza]

There should be a China map

And korea

And thailand

And cambodia

[stable pier]

there should actually be less map interactive ability

[hollow plaza]

And indonesia

And malaysia

And singapore

[tepid lance]

I think the maps not having tech is a map problem. Though most maps are unique enough, they could defo come up with stranger maps that invent new tech

[hollow plaza]

And taiwan

And laos

And vietnam

[void loom]

And Los Angeles

[stable pier]

And Myanmar

[hollow plaza]

Mmmm

[void loom]

And there’s just a bunch of bums and trash

[hollow plaza]

Maybe not

[stable pier]

oh my b

[tepid lance]

Like all maps ingame are in open air, some underground maps with tight ceilings or maps that split up your team would be cool

[hollow plaza]

Should north and south Korea be separate maps

Or the same

Also brunei

[tepid lance]

[void loom]

I still think flat platforms would be good.

[stable pier]

same map with a border in the middles that shoots at your beetle if you aren't moving fast enough through the dmz

[void loom]

Like gamba and picnic.

Put the fucking fire emoji on mine.

[hollow plaza]

Holy idea

[stable pier]

anyway, the maps shouldn't have more maneuverability and my reasoning is perfect. Just look at what happens with beetle basin and poop deck when you add new movement junk in that. It alters general gameflow to the point where those maps don't play the same

[void loom]

Yeah true

[stable pier]

would be chill for casual gameplay

[void loom]

That’s why gamba and picnic are so good

[stable pier]

the current map rotation is all good

beach honestly pmo the most rn cus the small goals but it's still fun

[void loom]

Yeah

I think my favorites are gamba and picnic

[hollow plaza]

Should hong kong get a map

[void loom]

Yeah

[hollow plaza]

Cool

[void loom]

Only if it has flat platforms

[stable pier]

I like having terrain changes across maps. Crater's landscape is vastly different to egypt which is different from beach and picnic. That sort of stuff is great. Sporatic mushroom placement is also good. I just think in general position should absolutely be crucial part of the game to intently focus on.

[hollow plaza]

Should the kuril islands be part of japan

[void loom]

Yeah that’s why I like gamba and picnic

[void loom]

Sure

[hollow plaza]

Ok cool

[void loom]

As long as it has flat platforms

[hollow plaza]

It won't but thanks for the input we'll take it into consideration (we wont)

[void loom]

Nevermind

I don’t like it

[lofty bloom]

I want to try to punish micro positioning instead of macro

[hardy parcel]

i love taiwan

[lofty bloom]

Like if you headbutt from net to try to steal a gold and miss, they should be able to score on you

[stable pier]

"The only thing this removes from the game is it makes positioning less important. I feel that punishing people for bad positioning in this game over a large scale (eg letting a ball into the goal bc you left it to get a rabbit drop) is really boring and not what beetleball is about"

that's how I read it

and the specific issue noted here is literally an awareness issue idk

[void loom]

Fs

[lofty bloom]

I mean yeah but i also just don't think macro positioning is that deep

on a very large scale

like it takes a 4 year old to figure out that the goliath should probably stay on their side of the map

[stable pier]

not if it has teammates

[lofty bloom]

wdym

[stable pier]

they can cover for goliath reversal since it has pretty good speed

when onb

but overall nuin is just gonna do whatever he wants so I'm not putting any more energy into this

[hollow plaza]

It try to go for 30% protein 40% fat and 30% carbs

[fiery radish]

If you're not paying attention to macro on beach you lose

[lofty bloom]

ts is awesome but its not possible if you're teammates can't move fast

[fiery radish]

They won't need to move fast if they're positioning well

[lofty bloom]

I mean yeah but positioning well is just boring

*positioning should still be important but you shouldn't be hard punished for it

[fiery radish]

So you want map interactivity but not related to positioning

[lofty bloom]

both

really should've split this into 2 seperate posts

[fiery radish]

I see

[void loom]

I personally think the platforms on gamba and picnic are great.

[lofty bloom]

i think that we need more map interactivity to keep the game from getting stale and I think there should be a way to quickly cross the map

meep im gonna kill you

[void loom]

Ouchies

[fiery radish]

I change the way I play dung a lot on every map, but that's probably because she's so grounded

[fiery radish]

Like bouncing off terrain, flutter dashing off specific spots, dungus

[void loom]

I personally think the platforms on gamba and picnic would help most characters.

[fiery radish]

Its why I miss bkpp so much

[worldly pendant]

true thank you @hallow storm @livid tartan

[void loom]

ohhh crap

[void loom]

Dungus

[fiery radish]

Yum

[void loom]

Yeah but that’s why we need more platforms like on picnic and gamba.

[lofty bloom]

yeah ur probably right i dont play dung

there's an old wy clip of him bouncing a ball off of the obelisk to juke someone and that's the type of stuff i really wanna add

[fiery radish]

I lowk play dung like 80 percent of the time so my perspective is limited

[lofty bloom]

like there definitely is map interactivity but there could be so much more

[void loom]

Yeah

Like the platforms on picnic and gamba

[fiery radish]

Erm

[void loom]

Am I wrong????

[fiery radish]

I quite like the platforms on picnic and gamba

[void loom]

True

Fellow intellectual

[hollow plaza]

Yeah except picnic has a giant cake on it

[void loom]

True

Remove that and we’re fine

[hollow plaza]

Just got an idea 💡

[lofty bloom]

rare occurrance

[hollow plaza]

Keep an eye on #1393708585115975710

[fiery radish]

👼 💡

[void loom]

I’m excited for this suggestion.

[past slate]

Sammmmeeee 😍😍😍

[hollow plaza]

Yoo

Airbussy go read my sug

[sick crest]

bro thinks he's peach

https://tenor.com/view/super-mario-luigi-luigi-dress-luigi-princess-peach-mario-and-luigi-superstar-saga-gif-9951996677809482030

bk

[hollow plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/princess-cat-peach-gif-19235497

[sick crest]

I think that none of this makes sense LMAOO

everything you're talking ab is such a non issue imo

there's plenty of variety through different abilities and interactions and the movement is alr pretty complex
also some of the ideas you gave kinda alr exist

all the maps are very different and allow for a lot of unique plays based on that

I think if you have an issue w it you j aren't playing creatively and want everything spoonfed to you 😭

@rancid tendon I want to hear your thoughts on this

[sick crest]

yoooo true

[rancid tendon]

oh I have a lot to read give me a bit

[void loom]

I think they should add more platforms like picnic and gamba

[sick crest]

I'm gonna mute you

[void loom]

Why

[void loom]

What did I do seaweed

[hollow plaza]

Why i oughta

[rancid tendon]

I agree with the sky boxes getting lowered and adding new future unique affects for each map, however I dont think the current maps have anything that need fixed when it comes to movement, I get having to have some weird pathing and some maps feeling big, but if all maps were smaller characters like ladybug, cyborg, bomba, and tiger would feel very broken

[hollow plaza]

I agree with the poopy poop poopy

[void loom]

Yeah but I just want

[hollow plaza]

Omg I just had an idea

Hoooooly idea

Hoooooooly idea

[rancid tendon]

I like the mix of map sizes as you have to play accordingly to each map

[void loom]

Sup

[void loom]

Do you think they should do this @rancid tendon

[hollow plaza]

You know in terraria if you go high enough the sky gets dark

That should happen

Then low gravity

Then you go to the moon

Moon map hooooly

[rancid tendon]

....

[void loom]

Why the dots

I’m confused

[hollow plaza]

Because every map has platforms

Doofus

[void loom]

Oh sorry

I meant specifically like gamba and picnic

[hollow plaza]

How are picnic and gamba the same though

[void loom]

The height

[stable pier]

meep likes launching bomb from under the cake/middle platform on gamba

[sick crest]

omg yes bk and then it becomes a story mode game where you have to fight off intergalactic space beetles in order to save the game of beetleball

[stable pier]

cus you hit the ceiling and boost

[sick crest]

and then you get alien skins for beating the story mode

[void loom]

Hey seaweed I read your message as I’m going to mute you as like in the future not like oh I’m going to mute you now

I’m sorry

[hollow plaza]

Dont make fun of me

https://tenor.com/view/pout-anime-pout-fairy-tail-pout-lucy-pout-gif-17524635

[void loom]

Please unmute me seagoat

[void loom]

Also it’s called a fart tech

[sick crest]

I would never!!

[void loom]

And it’s not some regular ass se4 wannabe tech

[hollow plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-anime-cute-anime-girl-chibi-gif-1474030282084313143

[hollow plaza]

We dont call it that

Bgl

[void loom]

It’s se4 made by seagoat

[hollow plaza]

Its bgl

[void loom]

Nobody is calling it that bk

[fiery radish]

i think every map sdhould be gamba so i always win

[hollow plaza]

Can someone teach me dbgl

[void loom]

Trueee

But old gamba

[lofty bloom]

I think that ur right and it is fine rn, it just could be better

I also am preaching to the choir a little bit because adding more variety to tech in the game is really only for people who get bored of beetleball which is not many people here

I also don't really think we need to change the current maps, i just think that the beetles should be able to cross beach and egypt faster

[mossy palm]

me me meeee I get bored of beetleball up rhinos skill ceiling pretty pleaaaaaaase

there's not enough with just finding all the techs and memorizing the setup spots

[sick crest]

sounds like you haven't tried innovating

if you're bored you j aren't creative

[mossy palm]

not with rhino

[hollow plaza]

Seanuke

[sick crest]

yes with rhino

with EVERYONE

[mossy palm]

theres a lot with rhino but not enough to my standards

I've memorized every goalie bypass version, every fuck you tech spot, every good diagonal onb spot, every horizontal onb spot, all the sniping lineups, etc

it sounds like a lot but after 500 hours its not that much

[hollow plaza]

axnuke

[summer pumice]

make a tldr next tiem

[livid tartan]

Maybe in certain maps there could be like pools of mysterious liquid…pause

But the liquid gives u some of ur ability back but it gets used up

[jaunty flame]

Mine js 538 turkey creek cove leander texas 78641