This has been brought up (from me as well) as the core issue with how the anti leech system (what this is) functions. I'm not sure if it made it into live but the original plan was to effectively have lv 100+ being able to share everything by treating >130? As 130. If this made it to live, this means the other person in the pt would just have to be lv 100 to share full bonuses
#This ain't it.
frail arrow
But I don't think there will ever be anything other than this style of medium medium because Phil's vision is to keep leech away
In any case I'll check mark it because I've unsuccessfully fought for this in the past lol
raven cape
effectively have lv 100+ being able to share everything by treating >130? As 130.
love this
given getting to lv100 is quick af with lvling parties.
fallow sequoia
For 2 party members this is a 6% drop, don't see how it's a big deal - you still gain 14%
Maybe Phil could change the color to yellow when it's still above 100% so people feel better
raven cape
+1, people think red = bad haha, it's not too bad for a lot of these scenarios. Maybe even a -x% next to the current rate, to make people understand theyre not nerfing their party much at all
frail arrow
> effectively have lv 100+ being able to share everything by treating >130? As 1...
Phil said this is what he was gonna do but Im unsure if that is the case in live since the patch notes don't specify it
south lagoon
I've been in a party where iirc we had 4 people and because I was playing over 30 levels of the 2nd highest lvl character we had the wooping 101% drop and exp rate, divided between 4 people, me being not there at that point would help more than hurt even if I was oneshoting everything
crisp canyon
Yeah, I think even lv 50+ shouldn't be influencing DROPS in any way
worn girder
In RO you couldn't share at all if you're beyond 15 levels though 🤔
In SV you only start losing the bonus beyond 30 levels, huge difference
Do you want to leech a Lv1 with a Lv150?
cedar forum
i personally dont really mind the penalty it would nice tho if the drop rate isnt penalized only the exp so that people in the same area despite the level difference can still pt up if they are after the items only instead of the exp
worn girder
I don't know how to explain this...
- Drop rate boosts aren't even a common thing in mmo
- You can still level up your friend super fast without the exp bonuses
- You're not actually penalised for partying out of range, you just don't get the bonus, so at minimum you get 100% exp
- Just because you get less exp per kill in a party doesn't mean you get less exp overall, and its not due to penalty.
For example 2 people partied out of range = 50% per kill per person, but you would either kill twice as fast, or one's a leeching dead weight but they still get exp in an area they would otherwise not be able to farm in
cedar forum
ok maybe penalty is the wrong word thats my bad. I meant that it would be nice if the drop rate bonus is available for people regardless of lvl gap, but its totally ok what you are doing with this game is already Godsent 
south lagoon
yup, most of the problem in there is the drop rate, about the exp I think it's way harder to do a mathematically good way to stop leeching without penalizing patying up with big lvl gaps, the ideal would be exp rate being affected per character individually and depending on the map lvl and party lvl gaps getting more or less exp rate, but getting that right would be too much effort and also would not always work as intended depending on too many factors
runic merlin
It’s not the other player that concerns me. The real issue is that if I want to farm EXP and drops on a lower level map, I basically can’t do that while partying. I don’t think players should be punished for grouping up. Lower level players shouldn’t be farming big maps for EXP, sure, but we should be able to party on smaller maps and still earn over 100% EXP and drops if we want to party. Otherwise, there’s no incentive to hunt items together when playing solo is clearly the better option.
TLDR I was trying to power level anyone.
fallow sequoia
Having a 14% bonus instead of a 20% bonus when partying with a 44 level gap is pretty dang reasonable.
worn girder
But isn't 2 people killing stuff with 100% drop rate > 1 person with 100% drop rate?
If your friend finds the drop you're looking for they can pass it to you. That's usually the benefit of hunting together
cedar forum
you do get 100% of the EXP you dont get penalized for anything you simple dont get the bonus EXP in which im personally fine with it. a bit sad for the drop rate bonus but if that can be remedied then all is yay if not it still ok
cedar forum
But isn't 2 people killing stuff with 100% drop rate > 1 person with 100% drop r...
yes but 2 people killing stuff with 100% drop rate + drop rate bonus is > 2 people killing stuff with 100% drop rate > 1 person with 100% drop rate
this will benefit hunting together even with people not your friends and people simply on the same map.
pallid vigil
Would making it you only get exp bonus when within X levels of each other feel better?
I can understand trying to avoid boosting low levels, but at the same time with so many items being worth farming at lower levels making it so the drop rate plumets with a level discrepancy doesn't make sense to me.
worn girder
The drop rate doesn't plummet
crisp canyon
The drop rate doesn't plummet
if you dont make the text red they wont notice . .
serene saffron
if you dont make the text red they wont notice . .
It is already red when the bonus is not applied anymore iirc.
crisp canyon
exactly..
runic merlin
@worn girder
I’ve been brainstorming a few possible middle ground ideas that might work for everyone.
One option could be reducing EXP and drop rates only for the lower level player, without affecting the higher level player at all.
Another idea is a scaling system, similar to what WoW uses. If a lower level player joins a higher level zone, their level could scale to match the mobs in that area. Their EXP gains would also scale appropriately for that zone, which would help prevent power leveling while still allowing people to play together. (they wouldn't get extra gear or skills, just would scale up to the appropriate level and experience rates.)
We could also look at some kind of mob or map level restriction. If a player isn’t meant to gain experience from a certain map, maybe they shouldn’t be able to level there in the first place.
Right now, it just doesn’t feel rewarding to party up if EXP and loot are split. I still want to earn full EXP and drops, especially when I’m farming items and leveling at the same time. It also feels bad to take reduced EXP and loot from a lower level map when I’m actively hunting and progressing.
When a drop rate is already 1%, and it doesn’t drop at all, splitting loot just makes it feel even worse. I can spend 8 hours a day farming a map for a single item and still walk away with nothing, so dividing drops really hurts motivation.
At the end of the day, I genuinely love this game. I’ll adapt by soloing or only playing with people around my level. But if I’m level 150 farming in a level 30 zone, that’s because it’s my spot and my gear earned that right, not because it should be shared with lower level players. I can’t reasonably help in that situation.
I worry this kind of system will just end up creating more toxicity rather than encouraging people to play together.
fallow sequoia
There is no reduction, you never go below 100%.
runic merlin
114% is less than 120% that is a reduction and encourages high leveled players to play with low leveled players how?
Nobody said anything about 100%.
fallow sequoia
If you don't party at all you're at 100%, if you party you're getting +14% instead of +20% due to the level difference in your example.
runic merlin
Yeah divided by 2. The only reason why some people play with other people is the increase. If you make is smaller it just pushes us from doing so.
fallow sequoia
Two people are doing work instead of one. Unless the example is that someone is completely leeching, which is what the system is intended to help avoid, it's not just divided by two.
runic merlin
There's still a large amount of players that agree. There will be some people who can disagree but it will just end up creating more toxicity when there are better fixes for the problem. I've seen it happen in many other mmorpgs.
But without more incentive I'm not playing with lower level players like this unfortunately. And a lot of people who play agree.
pallid vigil
Level scaling upwards is a terrible idea that encourages afk farming, level scaling down prevents powerful characters farming effectively, which in a loot heavy game is probably against the design.
Trying to be billy badass and prevent low level characters from touching "your" mobs is antithetical to mmo design, atleast withought pvp. Having a loot system that rewards both yourself and the low level player is ideal, I feel divorcing exp and loot bonuses based off level discrepancy is a good step to both encouraging grouping for more loot wile addressing the leeching issue.
I understand that with 100% loot split between two people, you "should" be getting more loot. his example of not wanting to take a hit [ie he is max level and the other party member is lv10, so there is no way the lv10 is contributing "equally"] is what the current boosted loot system is designed to help.
I think getting any bonus to loot regardless of level discrepancy is a great idea, the 20% increase per person feels generous as is to me.
fallow sequoia
Well this thread has gone from an apparent misunderstanding about the actual effect on a level gap for a zone (tiny) to "I want to party as a 150 with a lvl 10 and get a bonus" which just leads back to the same problem we were having before. People sat in groups in a corner getting leeched all over the place, if you made a new character people spam invited you into leech parties (or even promoted low lvl people running around high lvl maps spamming invites looking for leech). The community actively worked against people learning their character and then they popped into chat wondering how to play at 100+ when the game teaches you how to play it by just doing it.
It's really not like having a 20% bonus is going to cause me to want to invite someone with a 140 level difference who takes as long to kill a single mob as I do to clear the entire map. The current system is already extremely lenient (even more than I thought it was), MMOs don't typically give a drop rate boost at all.
pallid vigil
Do... people intentionally misunderstand the words I am typing or am I unclear about my intentions of trying to avoid giving exp -_-
cedar forum
But without more incentive I'm not playing with lower level players like this un...
There isnt suppose to be an incentive for a high level player partying with a low level player who plans to only leech. I was pushing for the drop bonus since atleast this would help in the division of loot in a party in a single map. This is regardless of the level of the map as everyone in the party will be killing and promotes partying regardless of the level at the very least.
If what you want is to have a bonus EXP bonus regardless of level then isnt that just leeching??
Thats not good at all in any kind of mmo even if we are considering the long run of the game.
runic merlin
There isnt suppose to be an incentive for a high level player partying with a lo...
This was never about leeching.
How about just dropping reductions to droprate and XP for higher leveled players? Problem solved. Little guy gets restrictions, big guy doesn't. What is the little guy going to get out of it now? easy fix.
pallid vigil
I like the idea of you only get an exp bonus if you are equal or greater to the level of the map you are in
runic merlin
Thanks Gollgo. That's all I want to see. The issue is that someone can roll in at level 150, wipe an entire map, and basically leave low level players stuck having a bad time and unable to party at all. I mean, if someone wants to be a jerk they’ll do it anyway. Nobody HAS to party. But at least if players like me weren’t restricted, I’d actually party with them so they could still have mobs to farm instead of gatekeeping the entire map to myself.
frail arrow
I've pitched bonuses relative to to the level of the mob/map rather than each other, got rejected
I think this is the system we will be playing with
Though it's way more adaptable now than it was before so I've grown okay with it
pallid vigil
It is possible its a code limitation, easier to check player discrepancy vs the location/source of incoming exp
or that trying to split the party bonus individually would be a headache to implement. Either way making any of the party bonus red is going to freak folk out when they see it
frail arrow
Nah it's just the decision that was made
frail arrow
Current implementation seems to be a good middle ground. There's lots less people bringing up a concern with it (used to be daily) and the leech issue also seems corrected
azure vortex
think the current system works well. everything suggested in this post just screams "i want to leech / be able to powerlevel"