#Quality of life / balancing stuff suggestions:

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

vocal yew
#
  1. After a discussion with @trail plinth we think it would be beneficial to somehow limit the upgrading and making endgame and upgraded items more valuable by limiting upgrading ressources to "drop only"; or the least the ones beyond +6.

(OLD SUGGESTION: Breakchance: Make it that everything that is upgradable will get a chance to be destroyed completely (1% per +1 or smth). That way the market won't be overflooded at some point. Right now nothing can be lost, everything will stay forever and there is no real reason to refarm some stuff besides to hope, that new players will join the market.)

  1. Lootfilter: Being able to sort out stuff you don't want; either make it in the options or make it when the pets being released, since they are going to be Lootpets anyway.

  2. Rework caster Classes: Right now I can easily AoE farm 5x level 120 Mobs with my Paladin(83), but my Mage(78) is struggeling with 3-4x level 50 mobs, even with 600Matk & 90% CTR. Don't even let me start with bossing.

  3. Don't mess this game up, please! I swear for a long time (gaming for about 20 years now) this finally feels like a really good game again! Don't mess it up! 🤓

stuck bear
#

One suggestion per thread and the number 1 is def a no

#

2 pets will do that i think

atomic prairie
#

no way are we suggesting to add items blow up

#

😭

#

when did 83*5 = 120

#

😭

stuck bear
vocal yew
trail plinth
#

i think theres other avenues for gold sinks

atomic prairie
#

theres so many other avenues

vocal yew
#

You guys need to think a little bit longterm

atomic prairie
#

before blowing up items

trail plinth
#

blowing up stuff is the worst mechanic in any mmo it is cancer

#

no i am thinking of long term, ive played majority games where there is break chance

atomic prairie
#

long term wont matter with items blowing up on enhance

trail plinth
#

it kills the longevity

#

its not fun

atomic prairie
#

game wont last

#

it is genuinely the most unfun dogshit mechanic ive experienced in a game

trail plinth
#

like for example, instead of blowing up, a durability system would be better

#

after x hours of use, need to feed it something to repair

#

but losing all your work is 100% not the call

atomic prairie
#

feed gear to reroll stats, feed gear to repair

#

feed gear to do literally anything other thne make my items blow up on enhance

trail plinth
#

^

vocal yew
stuck bear
#

long term = oh no i just broke my bis 31010 that costs 50m refining it to +2.. Quit

trail plinth
#

i just said that feeding it itself

#

so lets say you have a night garden helmet

#

after x amount of hours (obviously would need to be refined) you need 20 night garden helms of any roll to fix it

#

numbers up for debate but thats just an example

#

or you could make it so you break down said items into repair dust or something

#

just literally anything except your item explodes

stuck bear
#

its w/e theres no chance at all this will pass

#

dont need to discuss

#

no one wants it

trail plinth
#

not to mention when you have a break on chance, you feed heavily into the p2w aspect of games it entices people to just buy gold even more

vocal yew
#

What if: Every +1 there is a chance it will brick (not changable anymore) BUT giving it a upside value stat!?

trail plinth
#

no

#

no bricking no breaking

#

im telling you man

#

its a dogshit system that has ruined so many games

vocal yew
#

Than the game won't last long

atomic prairie
#

why are you so obsessed with the worst fucking mechancis to ever exist in video game history

#

😭

vocal yew
#

What will happen is: Market is getting flooded with highend gear, because everybody has everything

#

and the value of the items drops

#

everyday more and more

trail plinth
#

i just explained a system where that doesnt happen

stuck bear
#

tell me the numbers for the lottery please since you can see future

#

game still in develop

vocal yew
stuck bear
#

theres no gold for travel, reset

atomic prairie
#

one

#

You aren't discussing it

#

Your'e just stating it has to chnage or the game will die

trail plinth
#

the issue is that its a really bad system, it has been cited as some of the worst mechanics in any game

vocal yew
atomic prairie
#

there is quite literally 0 cases of that system existing in a game and it hasnt been massively undercut by systems being added to circumvent it

#

or that game not dying

trail plinth
#

^

#

every game that ive played that has had break on chance has had to put in multiple things to fix said system

#

or has died like decay said

vocal yew
trail plinth
#

poe is a seasonal game thats completely different

#

and also not an mmo

atomic prairie
#

comparing VAALing your items, a completely optional sidegrade on a SEASONAL arpg

#

to enhancing your items bricking or blowing up your items a main progiression method

vocal yew
#

Guys, your argument was "There is no game...!" - I tell you a game and your argument is "That doesn't count!"

atomic prairie
#

and

trail plinth
#

youre arguing apples to oranges

atomic prairie
#

GGG has added several systems to make vaal'd items changeable

vocal yew
#

Like, literally - that's simply being childish and defensive - like discussing with 13yo girls

trail plinth
#

no i dont think youre reading what we are saying

vocal yew
atomic prairie
#

so once again

trail plinth
#

youre comparing two completely different genres and styels of games

#

we are discussing this in an mmo setting

#

you wouldnt compare league of legends mechanics with an mmo because they are so different

atomic prairie
#

You could compltely remove vaal from POE

#

and it would change nothing about the game

vocal yew
atomic prairie
#

The systems you're asking for would be like every time I leveld a gem's level in poe1

#

there was a chance it got automatically vaal'd

trail plinth
#

context clues man

#

stardew valley and call of duty are both games

#

they should absolutely never be compared with eachother

#

its the same thing

#

arpgs and mmos are two styles of games

#

what works in one doesnt always work in another

atomic prairie
#

when you need to devolve to "but they're both games!" arguments to maintain your stance. It's time to reflect.

trail plinth
#

and there has been countless examples time and time again of this break system not working

#

so it either dies or has to change

#

again, in the context of an MMO

vocal yew
#

I am so tired of discussing with little children - The suggestions stands - Lets see what the community besides you two individuals, think about it

atomic prairie
#

LOL

trail plinth
#

are you just like intentionally chosing to not read what is being said

#

i dont get it

#

youre calling us children for what

#

please name an mmo, yes an MMO not an arpg, that has break mechanics that hasnt had to have been refined to circumvent it or just flat out died

#

games of the same genre

#

because i can give you plenty that had to

vocal yew
#

Let's say childish behavior; I can't assume how old you are; but I can see your behavior and that's enough

trail plinth
#

i can also give you examples of feeding gear into itself

#

are you just like not gonna answer the question

#

im trying to have a discussion

#

and youre just saying im a child for what

#

neither of us have attacked you in the same capacity

vocal yew
#

What you are doing is simply "argument spamming and refusing to being open for alternatives" as I am
And the best part is, telling me to listen what you have to say, because YOU ARE RIGHT.

See, in a way you are in my position, thinking you are right and trying to convince my WHY you are
But being defensive as you are; you don't realise that behavior

trail plinth
#

????

#

im literally asking you to give me an example of an mmo

#

im asking you to state your opinion

#

ill explain it again, an ARPG and an MMO should not be compared because they are totally different games. you wouldnt cite call of duty to balance league of legends because they are two completely different games

#

the argument we have proposed is under the context of an MMO

#

it shouldn't have to explicitly be stated that we are talking about an mmo because thats the game we are playing right now

vocal yew
#

See, I don't have an MMO - But the fun fact is: Even MMOs WITHOUT breaking mechanic are dead
It's not about that one mechanic that makes them boring; it's how the overall game is being handled and developed.

trail plinth
#

you are correct in not one mechanic makes them boring

#

and you are correct that mmos without breaking mechanics are dead

#

however what decay and i are citing is that one of the biggest reasons for a good portion of mmos die is because of breaking mechanics

#

i can give countless examples

#

Archeage, i played that game for 12 years. it had alot of issues, but the number 1 cited issue was the regrading system and how going up in quality required stupid hard rng. Because of said breaking mechanics, it was heavily encouraged to p2w to brute force rng, leaving people far behind and unwilling to play

#

Bdo, i havent played that game in depth but from my friends who have similar thing. they had to change how the system works to make it not nearly as punishing

#

an examples actually of feeding gear into eachother or breaking it down for other matierals, is runescape. they have a skill called invention that you can break gear down and use it for components to make buffs to put on gear

vocal yew
#

See, what you don't get is that if there is no way to somehow keep the economy alive; the game will fail aswell
Repairing an item to the original state will just keep the item in the game
Yes, you can use a repair mechanic; but it would need a system where everyime you repair something the repaircosts will increase

trail plinth
#

AND you can also feed gear into itself to repair it

trail plinth
#

gems are an example. you could make it so after 10 hours of use it requires x amount of whatever

drowsy kite
#

i really dont see the point in saying if i finish the game and i get bored = dead game

trail plinth
#

this stimulates economy, keeps people chasing drops, but you arent just losing progress

vocal yew
#

Don't make it "after hours of use" - Make it will enchant failure! After X fails the durabilty will be 0 than you have to repair with X amounts

drowsy kite
#

like if u already have minmaxed everything and ur bored, then go play something else while new content is brewing

trail plinth
#

but see this is where we fundamentally disagree. it feels extremely bad improving gear to only go backwards

#

number going up and down is one thing, but spending lets say 500m on an item for it to break 2nd try, or have its durability go to 0 so you have to get ANOTHER one feels incredibly bad

vocal yew
trail plinth
drowsy kite
trail plinth
#

you dont want people to stop playing

#

especially in a player driven economy

atomic prairie
#

gear is primarily horizontal. new zones dont always replace geari n old zones

trail plinth
#

^ which imo is best

#

build variety is key

#

in anycase, all im saying is i agree with you that there needs to be some kind of economy dump so people have a reason to keep playing

#

but it should not be tied to failure, theres other healthy alternatives

atomic prairie
#

it can be tied to failure. just not fucking actually blowing up your gear

vocal yew
#

No, I want ppl the play with joy and fear everytime.
When I grew up with FlyFF for example and something bricked from +3 to +4; i was MAD - REALLY MAD - But I farmed it again and tried again!
Failure isn't where ppl should give up; it's where ppl should start trying again and again with the possibility of failing again..

Right now the enchantment system is just timewasting for nothing besides "Oh, you failed. Ok."
And i personally think it's underwhelming and there is no "downside" of failing...

So give it durability; fine - but make it that upgrading your gear also comes with a little bit of fear

trail plinth
#

heres also something to seriously consider

#

there is a big reason why the mmo genre in general is dying

vocal yew
#

pay 2 win

trail plinth
#

repeating the same mistakes the predecessors made is not good

atomic prairie
#

p2w is not the reason.

trail plinth
#

that is a component but not the core reason

vocal yew
drowsy kite
trail plinth
#

i actually disagree with that

atomic prairie
#

id play a p2w mmo 10/10 more often then id play one with gear blowing up on enhnace/refine/regrade

trail plinth
#

theres games wiht p2w that arent really cited as bad

#

runescape and albion are extremely sucessful with direct ways from the game to gain gold

drowsy kite
#

real reason mmos are dying is coz new gens are really not into things that take alot of time

vocal yew
#

Guys; leave away the argument "blowing equip" - If you read my last message I am open to say "make it a durability system"
That's nonsense to still argue with bricking!?

trail plinth
#

to me bricking and breaking are almost the same thing

atomic prairie
#

you just brought it up

trail plinth
#

i know they arent

#

i just dont think that trying to upgrade your gear means that you are stuck with it

vocal yew
trail plinth
#

on failure

atomic prairie
vocal yew
vocal yew
atomic prairie
#

Its the point im arguing against. Even durability lost on enhance and making players "fear" something

#

is ass

#

you only do systems like that to sell a solution

vocal yew
vocal yew
atomic prairie
#

not being slapped means you're handed it ona silver plate?

trail plinth
#

no i dont think so, i just think that it means theres a cost to your gear

atomic prairie
#

in a game thats already meant to be grindy and low droprate

trail plinth
#

cost doesnt have to be fear

vocal yew
trail plinth
#

these arent actual drop rates

#

phil has confirmed that

#

its going to be even lower on beta/release

vocal yew
#

Hopefully! Finally a nice information ❤️

trail plinth
#

so ok the reason why i brought up the remember mmos are dying

#

is because i believe the mindset you have right now is that of old, where super long grinds and low rng rates are fun

#

im telling you in todays climate these things are a massive turn off

#

theres a reason mmos are not nearly as popular as they used to be

vocal yew
#

Yeah and you think handing everything on a silverplate is the better alternative!?

#

I don't say my opinion is right; but neither is yours - But I am trying to state a fact; to much and to less are both boring and will make the game die in a long run.

trail plinth
#

no, what im saying is if you DO get the item, you shouldnt be punished for trying to improve it, rather use it

#

it feels way better upkeeping an item to use it vs having to get a new one every time

#

weve had years of learning what not to do in mmos

vocal yew
#

What's the difference between a durability system while active using the item and a durability system while upgrading..?`
The result is the same; you need to repair it with other items.

trail plinth
#

so the difference is you dont lose your progress on failure. with a durability system, i can still push to get my +10 but my progress wont be wiped on +9

#

even if in a hypothetical situation, both systems consume the exact same amount of resources

#

the durability system FEELS better and is less frustrating

#

which is a key component

#

people are on board with systems if it doesnt feel like youre getting screwed over

#

breaking or failure systems feel really bad

vocal yew
#

Yeah, mate - i am not against a durability system; i told you before - I am ok with that alternative..
But the current upgrading mechanic has literally no downside besides wasting time...

MAYBE we could remove the +7/+9 stones off of the shop so it will be only optainable via farming

#

what makes the +7/+10 items more valuble

#

and rare

trail plinth
#

im fine with that, no issue

vocal yew
#

I like you, dickhead ❤️
I respect ur arguing and statements 👍

trail plinth
#

thank you, like i said im not disagreeing with the economy needs to move more, i had this same thought a few days ago

stuck bear
#

chunks prob wont be on store to sell

vocal yew
#

We always have to remember; it’s a playtest - But it’s a damn good one and I really love the game so far!

I would love to finance it somewhere along the line; but I am only playing for a week and I want to see what Phil makes out of it and how he keeps his timelines with jobs & updates.

trail plinth
#

i think the idea is to make chunks farmable only ya

little oriole
#

I don't like this idea, this will only encourage RMT. Especially in this game where refinement matters a lot especially for some items that gain extra percentages from refinement, like autocast weapons such as Royal Fang, or gauntlets, just to name a few.

eternal wadi
#

hell no for item breaking. absolute dog water of a system

#

make it 0.001% chance to go from 9->10. just no breaking Icon_Emoji_Cat_Crying

celest wren
#

Only a masochist who gets off to their time being wasted would suggest something like gear getting destroyed.

formal reef
#

Breaking items is an outdated mechanic in early days of MMOs to get people to gamble and then provide a solution for a small cost. It was not fun, it was not implemented to control economy. There are other way to do that. Loot has always stayed in game regardless if there was a feature like that or not.

The future of the game is going to be based on how many people want to play it and how many will stay.

MMOs aren’t meant to be static, it needs a good foundation and then slowly adapts to its player base. Like many other players, I enjoy this game because of nostalgia and like others I assume were in an age range of 30-50. Some of us got maybe another 10 years and we move on to other things. If this game is to be a long running game it will need to tailor to newer players. As much as I complain about instant gratification and not working for things because I’m a bitter old man, I don’t deny that it’s the young people that are going to make or break the game. It’s a business at the end of the day, if it’s going to succeed it’s going to have to adapt. Implement an old system is going to chase the newer players away.

The community has suggested some good and not so good ideas and we can only hope that Phil picks up the ones that will be most beneficial. The best thing I’ve seen so far is that the development team seems to take the community’s input to heart. I think that alone shows signs of a promising future for this game.

gentle ice
#

I have played BDO for some years, i can confirm the item blowing up path is dumb and as someone in the thread said, this only leads to the developers creating some resource for you to buy to prevent it from happening (eg. cron stones). I would suggest:

  1. creating a durability system & making Eq. drops harder to get - this lowers the number of them in the game
  2. creating a break down system to convert gear to some form of material that can be used to repair durability or reroll stats. This will help keep gear of all levels some what relevant