#PvP vs PvE Balancing System

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

inland onyx
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While I'm not trying to dismiss/disregard your idea, I think its way too early to even think much about this, and I will give you an example from RO.
Champions could, in theory, oneshot almost every other class in the game with a specific skill, said skill required preparation, gear, a specific build and lots of consumables in order to work properly and not be completely useless.
Some jobs like Lord Knight/Paladin had passive skills that had a chance of completely negating an instance of damage. Professors could dispel the champion and brick the setup required to use said one-shot skill, Mage Archetype/jobs and Priest could plop down an area barrier that would negate the next few melee hits, which would make said skill miss. Dancer and Bard had an ensemble song that would negate skill usage in an area. Alchemist and Blacksmiths could break weapons/armor, Stalker could force unequip weapon armor helmet and shield.
All of these would be passive to counter or highly diminish the Champion's capability of one-shotting people, if said skill were reduced or toned down for "balancing purposes" or "fairness" said skill would be dead in the water.

New items and jobs added over-time will naturally cause shifts in the meta, odds are you'll have jobs that excel at countering another job, only to have yet another job be an excellent counter against the 1st mentioned.
So i'd wait a bit till we have a few more jobs before suggesting this

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Highly doubt this game will be balanced around 1v1, so I expect some jobs to be possibly onetapped by others in specific situations/setups

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eh? Frost diver into AMP JT used to oneshot a lot of people too

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well I don't remember stalker oneshotting anyone

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just asura and EDP SB

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and even those, you could in theory run enough DR to avoid oneshots

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depending on how rich you were

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not to mention, counterplays mentioned above

meager forge
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some people abused the armor strip plus that

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of course a 100% counterplay is essential

inland onyx
meager forge
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but my point wasn't to nerf everything

meager forge
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I don't know which flavor of RO you played, at least in my server those 3 were the assassins

inland onyx
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Idk I haven't found a "balanced" game that didn't endup with a set in stone meta where specific setups would just be best "the best" in any situation

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Creators had their sunshine time, till everyone started running 1 vit

meager forge
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really?

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My server was pretty much a game of switching

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Assassins had to keep an eye out for resistances and hunt with the right weapon

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became tedius to have to armor swap and weapon swap but it is what it is

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But I understand your point, which is why I never explicitly said one shots are always bad, and just threw the idea into the example

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as 1. we don't have any numbers on pvp, stats or anything, and 2. the game is fully focused on pve right now

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Love the criticism tho I'll reword that part

inland onyx
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I understand your point too, that's why I said that we should probably wait a bit for more jobs to comeout to see if there will be enough counterplay between jobs that making that kind of changes would be a detriment

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RO had map based restrictions/nerfs like ranged/matk being reduced in WoE and some skills being unusable inside castles

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since the game draws heavy inspiration from it, I expect some sort of reductions/restrictions will be put in place, especially taking into account the silly dmg numbers we're already seeing xD

meager forge
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but it also had moments of WTF were they thinking, like when Paladins and Lord Knights being able to eat every single attack

meager forge
inland onyx
meager forge
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and don't immediatly add PvE cards into pvp and make it lag a couple months behind, so 1 pvp meta doesn't shift overnight, and 2 players have time to play with the new stuff and discover interactions and see what that leads to

meager forge
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because their damn reflect

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I honestly don't know what they were thinking that season

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episode*

inland onyx
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but pallies unless they were running martyrs wouldn't do too much dmg

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so you could just cc and shrug

meager forge
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yeh

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there was a time where they buffed reflect

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and pallys were basically impossible to touch unless you had magic

inland onyx
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didn't dispel remove reflect?

meager forge
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iirc yes

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but I dont' remember whyt we couldn't dispel some times

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maybe was it safety wall

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or just couldn't get close due to SG wiz and earthquake proffs

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not earthquake

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the other annoying slow floor

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quagmire

inland onyx
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quagmire

meager forge
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safety wall was buffed prev season because of knockbacks and other stupid things

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that's the reason

inland onyx
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yeah but that's what I mean, the way the game is setup currently (as in the amount of job variety that seems will exist) I'm expecting a lot of meta shifts in pvp/gvg, ontop ofnew items and whatnots

meager forge
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that's why I wanted to throw the idea of hey, I know is a bit too early but

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please could you consider to start thinking of separating the two?

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so we avoid the dark era of 3rd jobs

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where 0 testing was done

inland onyx
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RO's pvp was never balanced, gvg was fairly balanced

meager forge
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and you could just frost nova everything

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not frost nova

inland onyx
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well Renewal was a trainwreck, there's a reason so many pre-renewal private servers still exist

meager forge
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the other one for warlocks

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yeh, but let's be honest

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pre renwal the balance was mantained by their own enclosed space of jobs

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and instead of fully banning cards or abilities wouldn't it be better to re imagine them?

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keep their essence but not their full power

inland onyx
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thing is, do we even have such "busted" cards in the game at this point in time?

meager forge
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right now most cards are the basic x damage or x def

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pretty conservative

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I imagine as more come out new stuff will be found

inland onyx
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True, I just don't see a pvp/pve split the way XIV went to be particularly good, maybe a system like the original GW would be fine, but will really depend on how pvp shapes up to be

meager forge
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like Lost ark

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and GW2

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only played GW2 because of pvp

inland onyx
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well lost ark pvp and gvg are completely different tho

meager forge
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before they introduced the new clases tho, god is it awful to play that

meager forge
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but did a lot of pvp

inland onyx
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you don't have the constraints/balances of pvp, so its mostly a p2w galore xD

meager forge
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didn't like the pvp mostly because I wasn't keen on Gunlancer for pvp but started to like it more

meager forge
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I wish we had more people in here discusing this but it'll take time, I just wanted to get the ball rolling

inland onyx
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that's why I'm waiting to see what Phil cooks up for pvp and then go from there

meager forge
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we still have yet to see dungeons

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maybe we get some cool gear there

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I want the PvE side to have fun, explore builds and identity

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not end up constrained by PvP

inland onyx
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idk, the new set added to swamp is kinda crazy imo

meager forge
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like what destiny did nerfing frick ton of things

meager forge
inland onyx
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nah, the poison/curse/bleed 100% resist

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Gravemarrow

meager forge
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👀

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I don't realy mind bleed or curse ngl

inland onyx
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don't think we have jobs using those yet

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curse makes healing do damage to you, sounds like something that could be pretty annoying in pvp

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not sure how it interacts with leech/hp on hit

meager forge
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hmm interesting

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we'll have to see I think I've been cursed before and just said meh pally moment

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I do feel like every job that isn't pally is a tad squishy

inland onyx
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I mean, I called my pally tunacan for a reason

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lvl 90 mobbing in warcamp 🤷

meager forge
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dumped the SMN and went to WAR/PLD

inland onyx
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but that is the paladin fantasy tho, I will just stand here and be an immovable thing that does not die

meager forge
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true which to see their approach on PvP

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also another thing that's nice with a dual layer system is the skills and stat points

inland onyx
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I've been messing with rogue now, poison is fun

meager forge
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can't tell you how annoying ti was having to reset my stuff every weekend to get ready for PvP

inland onyx
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idk my priest ran the same build for pvp/pve, but I was running a wierd off meta MDEF stacking priest

meager forge
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I was the Stalker in charge of destroying the support

inland onyx
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would be funny seeing professors trying to stonecurse me, when they finally got around to it, they'd just do 1 dmg due to the stonecurse mdef buff

meager forge
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so I had to change from my normal gear for mobbing and just every day to specific stuff for GvG

inland onyx
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same thing with wizards trying to freeze, only for the freeze to wearoff before they got JT off

meager forge
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so far this game is inspired by

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but not 100% the same ideology of RO

inland onyx
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yup, I'm expecting damages to be lowered for pvp

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there's also no pot spamming to make you immortal

meager forge
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I kinda like that more

inland onyx
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that alone is a big gamechanger

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I wouldn't mind potions with a cd on them as consumables

meager forge
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he also said he will not make life skills tied to a single class

inland onyx
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just not RO levels of spammery

meager forge
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which makes some other things wayy more interesting

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like no merchant line

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for pvp I feel I heavily dislike pots

inland onyx
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I liked the merchant line tho 🤣

meager forge
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but maybe that's just me liking the hey teamwork style

meager forge
inland onyx
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like I said, I don't like the pot spamming, but a consumable pot with a cd

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I liked them for their borderline infinite storage that let me grind for way longer before having to return to sell

meager forge
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XD

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do make job recommendations

inland onyx
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plus they kinda forced you into figuring out other ways to build them

meager forge
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or gear recommendation

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I already made 2 Pirate and Alchemist

inland onyx
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my alchemist was always wandering around with ice falchion + siromas and fireblend + imp cards

meager forge
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if you see them you'll see I like active playstyle more than just sit and spam 1

inland onyx
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and the BS would run the merchant card set

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free opbs, obbs, gift boxes

meager forge
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My alche or merchant never left town

inland onyx
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yeah I had a crafter alch, bs i didn't bother with, the real valuable crafting skill was the WS/MS weapon upgrade anyway

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could just run sage for endows if needed elemental enchants

meager forge
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hmm we don't have alts in this game

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phil doesn't want to encourage having many accs

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so we gotta see how it''ll play out

inland onyx
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yeah, but you have element cards, and everyone has haste, which was the main reason you'd run a 2nd account acolyte anyway

meager forge
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true

inland onyx
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well in this game priest is actually a viable farming character, other than just for undeads, so I think it will be easier to see acolytes out in the wilds that won't mind buffing you

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I know I do buff people when I'm out and about Bonking stuff

meager forge
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true

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we'll see more support jobs soon too

inland onyx
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alch was in the running for the next job to be added no?

meager forge
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is the most voted one

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but mch is still the one coming december as far as we know

inland onyx
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ah is it? pity, well guess we'll see what mechanist will be all about

meager forge
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well alch has 25 more votes than alche

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and phil also said he doesn't want alche to be a potion bot

inland onyx
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could easily be a utility/support dps

meager forge
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Don't know if you saw my alche suggestion

inland onyx
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I mean Alch in RO was very limited/annoying due to all the consumable consumption

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also the only way to get proper on demand aoe healing before 3rd classes

meager forge
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alche is now a subset of smn

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so I want it to be more in line to focus on his smn

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so I made the suggestion of controlling what your smn does, but focus on using more than potion throw

inland onyx
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Alchemist had homunculi, I can see some plant bottles/bomb action fitting right in

meager forge
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#1439673229714395207

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this is what I had in mind

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I honestly didn't like alche much in RO

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never really felt home

inland onyx
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I think the reason alch suffered was the pot creation for using skills

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if bomb/acid terror/plant/marine weren't item based the class would've felt better

meager forge
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yeh, he was all over the place, vendor, farmer, homunculus, support, semi dps, armor protection

inland onyx
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but yeah from what I could gather you were thinking of something like combo skills that would do different things depending on how you'd mix em

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sounds alchemy enough for me

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also sounds like a lot of work for properly fleshing it out for Phil 🤣

meager forge
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better than just being a potion sling

inland onyx
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potion slinging has its place, no harm in having yet another class with some party healing capabilities, won't you think of all those FS priests

meager forge
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hahaha

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there are other jobs incoming too that could fill that void

inland onyx
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I mean, alchemist having 1 or 2 healing skills only wouldn't make it its niche, just some extra utility on the side

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same logic with druid

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acolyte could stay the "main" FS class

meager forge
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true but with my system you could technically still make him heal tho

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Light + Light = AoE Heal

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🤷

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that's the freedom of creativity

inland onyx
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yeah, but pot slinging for healing man, throw a glass vial at someone's head and they get healed

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cause game logic

meager forge
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I mean what happens to the glass pot after you use it?

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you consume it

inland onyx
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yep, same logic

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prep and throw

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would just "look/feel" different really

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and sometimes that's all it needs xD

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anyhow, good chatting, I'll have to dip out now, we also derailed from the main topic slightly, but only slightly

meager forge