#Proposed lever for the future balancing of summons

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

brave cargo
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A good lever to have in the game for if summons ever get out of line in their capability of solo tanking bosses would be the bosses having a passive that multiplies damage against non player characters.

If there's ever a mercenary system it would also fall into this and if there ever is a "protect the NPC" quest the passive could have a negative value if needed (if for some reason you didn't want to specifically buff the NPC, say in the corner case that you want the normal aggressive mobs to do full damage but nerf specifically the bosses damage to the NPC or if you want adversary players to be able to do full damage to the NPC and there's a boss in the same area).

pulsar terrace
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in my experience the bosses a summon can tank all the classes can solo that boss as well. my summon have trouble tanking ice mage for example, have to re-summon it quite a few times and my summoner have quite optimized gear.

jovial palm
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Which char cannot solo bosses tho? And which bosses are we talking about? My summon can't kill imp and I'm LV 112!

pulsar terrace
jovial palm
brave cargo
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in other channels whenever someone asks about soloing, everyone just replies with "summoner". why isn't there more variety in the responses if every class can solo?

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it looks like there's a consensus that if you wanna solo bosses, summoner is the go-to class

pulsar terrace
# brave cargo it looks like there's a consensus that if you wanna solo bosses, summoner is the...

its a strong solo class but have to be build to do that as well e.g no aoe to even mention. how about instead of asking the "which class is best at solo" you should ask if the class can solo. go into the mage section and you will see the mage soloing the very last boss the game has on offer. or ask if acolyte can solo. even scout the kitemaster can solo the same bosses my level 113 summoner can.

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its all single target to even rely on the summon to do the dmg and tank

brave cargo
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I just think that when people ask if there's good classes for soloing bosses, that the answers would be more like "it depends on the boss" or "depends on how much time you wanna spend" or "it depends if you want something mechanically easy"

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cuz those answers show that the whole system is balanced in that type of content

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but if the answer is just "summoner"

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something's not quite balanced yet

pulsar terrace
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our summons cannot do imp as raftel mentioned before which is not the last boss.

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but a mage can

brave cargo
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I don't think we're discussing the same thing

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I'm talking about adding a design lever in the system

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and player driven design response

pulsar terrace
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"difficult for summons to solo tank."

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it is difficult for the summon to tank already.

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as i and raftel mentioned

brave cargo
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again, you took a single word out of three sentences and made an affirmation based on current iteration of the game

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it doesn't matter if currently it's easy or hard for the summons to solo tank

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I'm talking about adding a design lever in the game

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it's a suggestion for a design that won't be locked in the future into "should we nerf or buff the class"

pulsar terrace
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that messes with the ability of the summon to tank a boss. as ive mentioned, having to re-summon the summon many many times only doing ice mage is a hassle. not even being able to tank imp.

brave cargo
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you could even buff the class and put those if it's currently balanced, cuz then future design will have that flexibility

pulsar terrace
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having the pet do all the dmg is a build in the game and should not be scrapped. also, building it so that the pet does the dmg you dont get any AoE farming potatial at all

prime star
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I just want to say, play your summoner and let me see how powerful you are. You only see the achievements of others. Have you ever tried the difficult process?

brave cargo
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I just think that I'm talking about a technical aspect of game design

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and you guys think I'm a player asking for nerfs or something lol

waxen ferry
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Genuine question tho, have you tried playing with summoner yet?

brave cargo
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Proposed lever for the future balancing of summons

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tried rewording and better explaining the points in the post itself to make it easier on Phil's first read.

ancient cave
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Everyone knows summoners need to be nerfed, but the only ones asking for it are the people on the outside who see them soloing bosses. And now that the bosses' instantaneous healing has been nerfed, summoners only need to cast one summon if it dies... GG easy!

glacial token
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Summoners ability to solo bosses is a little problematic but it's because of their stats and how stat scaling works.

Simply making bosses do more damage to summons does not fix this problem at all. It gives a very "hey they can do that? That's unfairrr" whiny vibe

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Right now I feel, a summoner SHOULD be able to build their Cactus to tank any boss.

And I also feel they SHOULD be able to do absurd amounts of dps.

The problem is we can do Both at the same time rather easily at the moment.

ancient cave
# prime star I just want to say, play your summoner and let me see how powerful you are. You ...

The only difficult part of the process is the same for all classes: dropping items. But the easiest part for a summoner is getting to 99 Agility and that ridiculous attack speed with no difficulty at all, dropping three cards from a low-level map, and just like that, you can build your character without much effort. The problem isn't the process or whether someone achieves something with the class. The problem is that the vast majority of summoners don't even know how to dodge in the game because they don't have to. At the end of the day, their gameplay is just pressing one button and watching the summon fight. And if it dies, you just press the button again!

prime star
ancient cave
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And mind you, I'm not talking about something I don't see. I'm on vacation from work and I've been playing up to 10 hours a day. 99% of summoner players have this same gameplay, and if anyone here plays differently, congratulations, you're the 1%!

prime star
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my agi

image.png
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99?

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dropping three cards from a low-level map

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Those 3 low-level ones?

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Go ask how many summoners are fighting the Golden Hammer in Goblin Hell

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easy?

brave cargo
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the good thing about what I'm proposing is:
You want summoners to be buffed? this could do it. you want summoners to be nerfed? this could to it.

glacial token
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This isn't a buff or nerf. I feel its an incorrect approach to the problem

ancient cave
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imagine with low gear and and some easy cards to get

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this is far from right xD

glacial token
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Not sure what point your trying to prove with that video

brave cargo
glacial token
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Not identifying the problem Correctly

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Like, summoner should be able to tank bosses with their pets. There is nothing wrong with that

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It's the part where they dont even need to use Cactus, and a cat can tank a death mage easily while doing high dps

prime star
ancient cave
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A character with 99 Agility has a summon that can tank and attack fast, and they're not even using an item. What other class even comes close to that? None. The summoner's summon is way too strong, from start to finish.

brave cargo
prime star
glacial token
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And it's not a summoner issue, it's the way summons inherit stats and add to their own. A 150 summon with a summoner has the stats of like a lvl 300

ancient cave
prime star
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I showed him real fighting.

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! Tico
[SPR]
— 晚上9:50
The only difficult part of the process is the same for all classes: dropping items. But the easiest part for a summoner is getting to 99 Agility and that ridiculous attack speed with no difficulty at all, dropping three cards from a low-level map, and just like that, you can build your character without much effort. The problem isn't the process or whether someone achieves something with the class. The problem is that the vast majority of summoners don't even know how to dodge in the game because they don't have to. At the end of the day, their gameplay is just pressing one button and watching the summon fight. And if it dies, you just press the button again! is you not me

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! Tico
[SPR]
— 2025/8/27 晚上9:29
hey sinda, how are you ? hope you good man... can you give me a advice
i have a friend, who plays summon, and wants to grind on library
but his dmg is kinda low event changing cards
can you give me a advice to help him ? is you not me

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I PM you so I don't want to embarrass you, OK?

ancient cave
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realy ?

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That guy thinks that when we comment on the class, it's a personal attack on him. He even mixed in the fact that I asked a friend for help about a week ago, when summoners didn't even have that attack speed.

prime star
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That guy thinks that when we comment on the class, it's a personal attack on him ?Did I say this?

ancient cave
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looks like that

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why would u dm me and bring a convo that have 1 week alredy, its dont make any sense !

prime star
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okok you are best i am suck ok! ^^ty you cat show

ancient cave
pulsar terrace
wet quiver