#Seasonal non-Seasonal

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lapis storm
#

I think releasing seasonal supporter packs is fine, especially if there are several or several tiers to allow people to spend more, but I think forcing people to spend as a baseline is a bad idea

#

putting aside that many people probably bought the game because it doesn't have regular payments

#

and asking for a permanent server that you seem to like that is then free is the cherry on top

trail pier
# lapis storm and asking for a permanent server that you seem to like that is then free is the...

I mean the permanent is always a season behind. That being said, maybe a tiered support system might work...
I just don't see how a large player base would be against a $10 season pass every 6 months... that's pretty minimal in terms of everything else in the world... and again you don't need it for access to the game, just the newest content.
Very few mmos (I know this isn't truly an mmo) survive off of optional pay models. The main way small game companies survive is to introduce forced pay models in a lot of seasonal content. The player base went from 40k to 10k.

At $10 for a new season every 6 months that's around 100k... logistically still hard to create a window for future seasonal development for two developers.

#

This is a hard situation, it's just rough. I wanna see what they have to offer and definitely want a way for them to find appropriate support.

lapis storm
junior flower
#

A lot of this is built on the assumption of what a new season means but I’d prefer for both nonseason and season to exist within the same character.
I should be able to have my fully progressed character gear and a seasonal reset character gear on the same character and be able to swap between them if/when I want.
The “seasonal” set can be a “prestige” system where you can continually reset your character. Each time you reset your seasonal character. All the gear and mats go to the “nonseasonal” character so you never lose them.

lapis storm
#

the nice part about this is that it allows people to play a season and create greater player numbers even when they don't feel like paying or are in tight financial circumstances

trail pier
lapis storm
trail pier
lapis storm
#

and I think that even personally I wouldn't be very interested in the permanent mode in the long run

among other reasons because there won't be significiant power and content creep, because the climb isn't based on going further from your previous state but resetting to 0 and progressing to your previous state

so you'll run out of things to do unless you play the seasonal mode

and that's before discussing how much the permanent mode could limit design

trail pier
# lapis storm I don't think a non-seasonal mode would have sufficient players at all

Yeah, I mean they've already lost 1/4th of their base so this is already a tough situation for retention. It's why I genuinely am perplexed, and while every 3rd or 4th post is about new pay models I do feel like it needs to be brought up frequently for them to see where the player base is passionate about this.
At the end of the day, this is a game to us but a job for them. While I have forgone eating food to play the game, they need us to pay for them to eat. Is my thought on this as a whole.

lapis storm
#

I'd prefer if they kept a recurring playerbase by shortening the initial grind and making it more deterministic to avoid people feeling like they lose too much time when their characters are reset

trail pier
#

Thanks for the reasonable discussion though. I genuinely was expecting to be cooked in this post. Haha

lapis storm
#

and I don't mean trivialising it, just avoid making it 200 hours

junior flower
#

I just don’t see this game as a “permanent” game anyway. I don’t really want to lose progression but if I did, and had to start at 0 again but there were complete overhauls and redesigns then I’d be in to push a season until next season starts over again.

#

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have a seasnal design on a game like this

trail pier
#

That being said, I legitimately love this game in the sense that I will hop on run two dungeons and then go do something else.

junior flower
#

Especially when it’s more of a “secondary” game anyway

lapis storm
#

in the long term I'd love to be able to alternate between this and PoE if the releases don't overlap too much like they did this time

trail pier
lapis storm
#

play it a lot for a month or so, then wait for the next season

junior flower
#

Even wow doesn’t release new dungeons every “season”

#

They just reroll old dungeons

junior flower
#

The current reward tracks are lacking per character

trail pier
#

Yeah, my favorite thing about wow was this concept so I do appreciate the full pick up and put down play style.

lapis storm
#

I'm currently waiting for Eternal queue to see if that makes pushing on my main bearable, otherwise I'm considering getting the 8.5k outfit on 1-3 alts since the mounts are already unlocked

trail pier
trail pier
hallow night
distant grove
trail pier
lapis storm
trail pier
# lapis storm I don't think the tipping analogy transfers well. People eating at a restaurant ...

I was implying that I can see their point of view, not that I agree with the analogy I meant. I think the playerbase as a whole or at least the vocal ones are against any form of micro-transaction that is restrictive. It's just kind of hard for me to imagine that $10 over the course of 6 months which I'd argue isn't even a sustainable model is a "break the bank" for anyone or really would be a hill "to die on". It really does feel like there's only three outcomes to the game surviving.

  1. A seasonal purchase.
  2. Logging on and being flooded with micro transaction requests.
  3. Game not getting the support it needs.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but at a certain point everyone has to agree. If there was a more effective way for a gaming company to pay it's employees and keep the game functioning at a rate that a live service game needs to function at then there is a purchasing model that needs to occur.

This is a game to everyone but the people making it.

Small figures here... 10 employee's making 100k a year is at minimum 1million dollars to keep them paid... There's no optional service that a small gaming company can do that could keep running with that model. They have publishers/investers, but those publishers/investers don't want them to cut even they want them to make a profit on the investment.

lapis storm
trail pier
#

You don't have to pay again, you don't get the new stuff that's okay too. The game is coming out fully made live service games are micro expansions at the end of the day.

#

That's my point.

lapis storm
#

Well, you're suggesting that I do pay for future heroes and dungeons, which I was promised for the price that I already paid.

trail pier
#

Where was that established?

#

Did they say that?

lapis storm
#

Yes, they did say that. I do not keep a log of dev statements to quote.

And I'm not opposed to paying more than I need to if I agree with the direction of the game and have the available funds.

I've spent several hundred euros on Path of Exile, but I certainly wouldn't have played it much if it was a subscription model that required me to pay for each league that I play.

trail pier
#

I'm not saying you have to pay to log on. Stop implying anything is forced here.

lapis storm
trail pier
#

How to pay employee's on tipping culture is crazy.

lapis storm
#

you'll have a smaller recurring playerbase, each of them paying a pittance and being less incentivised to spend extra on supporter packs because "they're already paying"

instead you could have a large playerbase that returns almost every season, and some of the whales will pay a tremendous amount to keep the game more than profitable

trail pier
#

Also, poe is also a bad example. It's far from easy for new players to pick up the game and it really is terrible to convince someone to spend money on it. I'm not saying people don't pick up the game for the first time but it's ridden with micro transaction requests.

lapis storm
#

In a multiplayer game like this, the consumers are part of the product. You want as many as possible.

People already complain about long queues etc., and putting a paid gate at the front lowers the numbers of available people to match.

trail pier
#

We are both at an ends here and again, it's unfurtunate that $10 a month would break the bank for this gaming community. I hope the game continues to find ways to receive funding.

#

My original post. I am just logging it because.
"
Might get roasted, but wanted to suggest.
This first suggestion, not as important.
Maybe make an out of season permanent world that all old seasons build in to. Changes through a season don't affect it, and when a new season comes out it gets pushed over.
Maybe make it a legitimate merge of past and last season.

Second suggestion.
Then just make the new season $5-$10 as a seasonal pack.

Not gonna sugar coat it here.
If you can't/aren't willing to pay $10 for a game every 6 months to ensure a game you're enjoying stays the same way... that's kinda a you problem.
If the next season comes out with even half the amount of new dungeons and stuff it'd definitely be worth a season pass.

Many of the gamers here I assume come from another mmo. They're not cheap, and I emplore everyone here to consider a season pass route. It can be a "Themed" season. You can pay non seasonal content with your friends on the non seasonal server if someone doesn't want to pay. (Tbh gifting is an option here as well.) The game actually exists in 5 years.

Some of the things that a season pass does help with:
Balanced
New Content
Supporting ongoing Development
Supporting server costs
Allowing frequent patches
Supporting live-ops teams
Funding art and animation teams
Funding testing and QA
Supporting long-term game lifespan
Reducing reliance on microtransactions
Showing demand for continued updates

I get that seasonal and non seasonal is a HUGE flag right now. I just think about 'appropriate' ways to support through payment models.

Unfortunately the blood of development begins and ends with financing and the hard truth is if you want fellowship to succeed there has to be an appropriate financial model that incentives investment for the game.

Don't clown me too hard. 🙁
"