#The game isn't very casual-friendly

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sage turtle
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Preface: I love the game and it's concept, supporter packs and all that to support the devs.

I am a retired WoW player, ~10 years of active tanking on and off between expansions. IRL and stuff allows me maybe 3-4 hours weekly to sit down and enjoy a few good sessions.

The feedback I have is that the the appeal to the casual players seems to be fading.

Quickplay is basically speedruns now. If you pull too much and the healer is new / not ready, the party wipes and sometimes blame starts being tossed around. On the flipside, pull too little, and people get agitated, pulls for you, and sometime you wipe. Doesn't feel good being constantly rushed.

Adapt onwards, it feels like you have to trust that everyone including yourself has to know all the mechanics, routes, etc, which comes naturally from running more dungeons (and some reading outside). On the flipside, if you go in with the intent to gain said experience and put theory to practice, you have 2 choices:

  1. Fake it till you make it and hope the group is friendly during wipes / mistakes
  2. Let everyone know you're learning and again, hope the group is friendly

Most of this is due to playerbase mentality and that is fair, when you have leaderboards / ranks / metrics that showcase proficiency in a game, you'd expect people to want to reach their own personal objectives and goals.

I'm not sure if there are better ways to ease casual players into learning the mechanics or to incentivize differently between the casual and the ranked players, so I will just end my feedback here.

noble veldt
# sage turtle Preface: I love the game and it's concept, supporter packs and all that to suppo...

Very well said, i’ve had the same thought about the game that it doesnt appeal to casuals at all and new players will get bullied out because most experienced players will call them out on every thing they do wrong or dont do, because theres a timer to beat which puts pressure on players to know exactly what they are doing. My thought was to remove timers from dungeons till you reach eternal. Once you reach that a timer mechanic will gradually start getting harder to beat the higher up you get. This way casuals can enjoy the game and learn it in their pace and still let people compete at the top.

Edit: Now that I think about it since they took so much inspiration from wow it would make total sense to remove timers from dungeons before eternal as that is exactly how wow is. You dont start getting timed dungeons before you start doing the hardest content a dungeon can offer (m+) meanwhile in this game you already have a timer when you start doing deadmines/wailing caverns and its alot harder then those 2 dungeons mentioned, so the learning curve is alot steeper.

vale valley
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Absolutely valid point.

It also really doesn't help that the game forces more advanced players to play with newer players. Endgame players have to spam quick play to unlock their timegated chests. Endgame players have to farm low Eternal to progress their gear.

Instead they should have a sort of "mentor" system, where players can opt to do lower level content voluntarily, with the intent of actually helping new players. Someone who just wants to get their Marks of Fellowship isn't going to want to deal with slow QP runs where each pack gets pulled one at a time.

It also doesn't help that the biggest jump happens in Adept. Players who go from Contender into Adept are basically thrown into a completely different game. That difficulty increase should be much more gradual. Currently Paragon for example is kind of pointless, it's basically champion 2.0. Adept should be much more forgiving, and instead that difficulty increase should be spread more evenly to the other leagues. So as you progress from Contender to Paragon, you have a smooth difficulty curve that allows you to slowly adjust to the more complex and punishing mechanics.

Of course, as you said, a part of it is the playerbase mentality, and there's little the devs can do. But they could definitely create a more lenient environment for people to slowly learn the game, rather than "Oh you just walked through a puddle? Let's throw you into the ocean and see if you can swim!"

zealous pier
sage turtle
# zealous pier Hey, the best way to improve ingame as new or casual player is to ask questions....

Not contesting this advice, learnt a lot on the fly in weeks 1 & 2, and if people ask now, I'm more than willing to slow down and explain mechanics I'm aware of, even if it means not timing.

Fast forward today, the patience of many players feels like it's dropped considerably and the results of asking questions is a roulette between:

  1. Getting answers genuinely
    2."get gud noob"
  2. No replies
  3. Getting a reply but the rest of the party becomes impatient

Which, imo, makes more casual players not want to approach the game. As a friend of mine told me before dropping the game; "if I wanted to be made to feel bad for everything, I'd be playing Overwatch"

sage turtle
# vale valley Absolutely valid point. It also really doesn't help that the game forces more a...

The points you have on Adept onwards is one of the reasons I prefer to casually do CF farms. Sometimes I get a good group of alts who understand I time troublesome pulls with GM, or totally new people who don't read chat and we wipe for 10 minutes on a boss, sometimes a random ragequitter, and everything else inbetween.

edit: but, its still one of the more relaxing experience I currently have with the game, which beats getting tilted at.

zealous pier
# sage turtle Not contesting this advice, learnt a lot on the fly in weeks 1 & 2, and if peopl...

Completely understandable. Althought I don't think there is a cure or fix to this. This game runS autonomously by players and I agreed most players here are hostile to new players which is bad advertisement for the game.

Even for me with 10k main, I am having a very hard time getting to groups for Tuzari +2 farm on my 290 alt because people only want 330 DPS which is absurd behavior.

In low Leagues i have to whip out my spider mount to stop people from complaining while I learn other role.

Sad to say. It's not something the dev can fix. We as players need to be a good example for other players . I do give people chances when I run my own group but sadly not many players out there share my generosity.

ornate glade
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Most of the problems can be solved by making grps by yourself- you would be surprised how many friendly and fun ppl reach out to me when i post i am assembling chill eternal grp without absurd 330ilvl expectation for +15 dung

lusty lark
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: Now that I think about it since they took so much inspiration from wow it would make total sense to remove timers from dungeons before eternal as that is exactly how wow is.
Ah, yes, readd the grind that this game espouses to skip.

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Timer is important.

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the reason people come here is because it's seen as they don't need to grind,

sage turtle
# ornate glade Most of the problems can be solved by making grps by yourself- you would be surp...

I've tried this approach by regularly posting my friend links in hopes of attracting like-minded players.

Unfortunately, I believe the chiller people in the discords are sitting in Eternal at the moment, most likely due to grinding fatigue.

That, or there's just not many English speaking folks in the Asia server where I hail from.

I will keep trying nonetheless, because nothing has scratched my tanking itch quite like this game so far

sage turtle
# zealous pier Completely understandable. Althought I don't think there is a cure or fix to thi...

Which leads me to believe that the missing piece to solve or at least mitigate this issue, is an in-game social function (guild, clan, groups that are fine being casual players?).

People tend to have more fun and laugh at mistakes when the expectations and social settings are there, even with the implied frustrations. At least that's how my experiences have been from my raids and m+ back in WoW, even made some IRL friends over the years. (And I was in fairly competitive raid guilds)

sour mortar
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When i first hit tuzari capstone i mentioned it was my first time. Everyone left, only way i was able to get the clear was by not saying a word 😅

sage turtle
# sour mortar When i first hit tuzari capstone i mentioned it was my first time. Everyone left...

Yeah that's rough, especially for an early access title.

I believe there's no right or wrong in that situation, everyone values their time and enjoyment differently, be it helping newer players, wanting to gain experience/ confidence in the game, or not wanting to live through another experience of wiping to bosses for 40 minutes.

To bring to my original feedback, I'm just hopeful that an in-between of sorts can be carved for these different player wants. The 10k rating and competitive players have their niche, the tryhards will keep attempting until burnt out, but the casuals are pretty much out of luck for now

acoustic dragon
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I mean with your playtime it would be the same as playing WoW and not progressing quickly, its the same concept just a different game. Any game that has a leaderboard, has rankings, has gear progression is going to have a issue being appealing to both sides. WoW has the benefit of being such a long standing staple game and their mythic season are quite long. Whereas with fellowship for SOME of us once we get our goal we are going to just wait for the next patch/season etc to play. While im not against the devs trying to appeal to the casual playerbase there has to be a fine balance between allowing casual players to play the way they can/want to vs allowing those pushing for rank 1 to not feel like they are wasting their immense amount of time put in for that achievement

sage turtle
# acoustic dragon I mean with your playtime it would be the same as playing WoW and not progressin...

Fair and valid points. WoW has had the time and extra fluff (PvP, trading, M10 boxes, etc) to diversify the offerings.

I'm not trying to come from the angle of wanting to gimp the people who want to push ratings, climbing in rank and ilvl is what this game is about as the endgame after all and I personally want to reach 10k ratings for the spider mount.

My feedback leans towards my opinion that players who need more time (in my case, limited game time) are put in a position through current game design to be left out more often than not. My friend dropped out for this season because every time we mentioned we're optimizing pulls or made some mistakes, people would rather leave or rage in chat then clear the dungeon. Of course those events are a minority and we did come across some amazingly patient people as well, but it takes a toll when you get talked down to multiple runs in a session.

acoustic dragon
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Specifically in your case i think finding a group of 4 to push for whatever time works for you is better than solo queuing. Because with your timelimit once you hit eternal its going to be rough finding a group quick enough with your limited availabilty. Finding 3 people that are running a similar schedule to you might be overall a better experience.

sage turtle
# acoustic dragon Specifically in your case i think finding a group of 4 to push for whatever time...

That's the conclusion I've come to as well, so I regularly seek out people who might fall into this weird in-between space on the discord.

I do hope they eventually include an in-game function similar, or partially inspired by the LFG finder in WoW. Or something that allows a clear intent of "chill adept/champ/paragon" group runs. Though I'm certain with a focused group, we could speed through in a day or 2.

Till then, I'll keep casually tanking and see where I end up when the first EA resets happens

acoustic dragon
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I mean honestly depending on what times you typically play id be down to play occassionally throughout the week, atm i dont have much of a reason to play now that i got 10k but im down to help 🤷‍♂️

noble veldt
# lusty lark > : Now that I think about it since they took so much inspiration from wow it wo...

Timer on lower leagues isnt important, the time you get from contender/adept/champion/paragon means nothing once you reach eternal. Its just a concept they took from wow m+ because people like it but they cut out the middle part and skipped right to the end game. Giving no room for new players to learn the game especially under pressure from a timer and people leaving / complaining once they realize you are new and dont understand what you're doing. All it does in lower leagues is add pressure on bad / new players instead of giving them a chance to learn the game in their own pace. Good players will still clear dungeons as fast and the timer has no purpouse whatsoever before eternal and if you think it does then please give me an example of why its important in lower leagues.

lusty lark
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Timer on lower leagues isnt important
It is important. It makes it fun.

lusty lark
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it's skipping all the mmo hassles for a rewarding experience at the start.

noble veldt
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You will still do that without a timer..

lusty lark
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no...

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because I don't want to be in timerless content

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only way removing timer is okay is if you give people the option to skip it.

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WOW has a level boost, so we can probably create eternal ready characters here or something.

noble veldt
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Fine with me, but give new players some incentive to learn the game in a pace their comfortable with instead of being placed with people that wanna speedrun the dungeons, cause for ALOT of people thats not what they want.

lusty lark
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(downside is wow level boost characters cost money, but if you can create maxed out characters off the bat? that'd be fine too.)

noble veldt
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Lets not go offtopic please, stay on course

lusty lark
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?

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it's very much on topic

noble veldt
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Boost has nothing to do with this

lusty lark
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it has everything to do with this? The purpose is to skip the unwanted parts (timerless content.) If it were to be implemented.

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Accepting contender 1-3 as a necessary evil is a different ask compared to till.... whenever ? paragon maybe?

noble veldt
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My suggestion is to have both, but one starts appearing once you learned the game, which is totally fine so people can learn their heroes and routes etc.. I dont see how that would take away any fun from you but meet me somewhere in the middle where we can make the game fun for both worlds.

lusty lark
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you can't have "both."

noble veldt
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Then you didnt read my suggestion

lusty lark
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I did, and I think it sucks.

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timerless content is readding the grind the game is advertised to skip.

noble veldt
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How does removing a timer add more grind?

lusty lark
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because removing the timer turns it into a grind. It's no longer fun without a failure condition.

noble veldt
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People leave halfway through dungeons now when they dont meet the timer, i'd say that adds more grind then finishing dungeons timeless

lusty lark
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it's seen as guaranteed success if given enough time, it SUCKS.

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? the game is to thrive in the moment, not reaching some destination like 10k

noble veldt
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Yeah exactly and alot of people dont thrive when they are under constant pressure by a timer to get stuff done when they are still learning, even you must understand that concept

lusty lark
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People who don't want timed content should seek a game without one than try to turn this game into that.

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Not every game is for everyone, and that's perfectly okay.

noble veldt
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Its not turning the game into that, its meeting somewhere in the middle where you can have casuals enjoy the game and the endgame speedrunners doing their thing.

sage turtle
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I'll chime in here before it digresses..

Everyones puts in effort when playing the game. Other players' efforts is in no way less impactful than mine to progressing.

Timer or no timer, having a meaningful way to have players learn content and mechanics, without being treated like lesser players is the core of my initial feedback.

lusty lark
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It's like alll those manifestos on how to fix M+ and when all the changes applied, it's no longer m+.

lusty lark
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If you want a 28 level tutorial or something fine, just don't make everyone else play it. (Non-timer = tutorial.)

noble veldt
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I dont think we will ever agree on that so lets just leave it at that, I think the game should be inviting to new people and people that arent that good at games, make it easy at the start and then once you have progressed and learnt the game theres activitys for those who would like a challenge.

lusty lark
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It does start easy, people speedrunning quickplays like nothing, and alleged contender 1-3 is trivial.

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the issue is how much you want as guaranteed success....

noble veldt
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Thats fine and thats your oppinion I just dont agree

acoustic dragon
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Without a timer this isnt a M+ game, which is what it is striving to be. Timer is 100% a core functionality. And like others have said Quickplay and contender 1-3 have no timer. Contender 4-7 are insanely easy timer to beat. Adept 1-7 are also fairly easy once people learn the new mechanics. Champion it gets a little tighter but even on some champs that we wipe 1-2 times we still time the dungeon. Paragon it becomes more of a issue, and eternal the timer IS the striving factor of increasing your rank.

noble veldt
# acoustic dragon Without a timer this isnt a M+ game, which is what it is striving to be. Timer i...

I fully agree on that it isnt m+ game without timer, however if you want the game to be inviting to other people then just the small community of people that plays m+ imo it should be easier and more forgiving at the start of it. I never suggested to fully remove the timer, just to leave room for every skill of players to fully enjoy the full game. Since afterall I really like it and I would just like to give all gamers the chance to enjoy it and still keep the endgame aspects of it.

acoustic dragon
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Pushing the wall from Contender 4 to Paragon 4 isnt going to help anything, you are just delaying the inevitable. At least with it being so early on you have a chance to get gud

noble veldt
lusty lark
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games aren't for everyone, and readding grind isn't appealing to me just so other people waste mote time to get past it

acoustic dragon
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OR crazy idea here, instead of making the game easier. How about they fix the tutorial so as a baseline people get some of the core concepts of the game.

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This way it helps both sides without hurting 1

lusty lark
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yea fix tutorial if it needs fixing

noble veldt
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All I am saying from personal experience is that alot of people dont have the capability of playing like that, and if you dont want them in this game I cant do anything about that but I would like to see them atleast have a chance to enjoy it with some more easier content available in some form. May it be without or with a timer, thats not up to me. But yeah for the longevity of the games sake it's a good thing to be catering to all skills of players imo.

acoustic dragon
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Alright, im just going to throw an example out there and you tell me if thats what you want.

Lets compare Fellowship to League

Do you think League would be a better game if baseline everyone was Diamond 1?

Because Fellowship has 6 difficulty levels, now lets convert them to League standards shall we?

Quick Play = Iron
Contender = Bronze
Adept = Silver
Champion = Gold
Paragon = Platinum
Eternal = Diamond

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Tell me where most players sit at on the ranks in League?

lusty lark
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so you give them more content, they complain after a week or something when the game's supposed to last 3-4 months.

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I don't see how it's sustainable even if done.

acoustic dragon
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Because guess what, the standard players of League are in Silver-Gold, WHICH WOULDA YA LOOK AT THAT so are the players here in Fellowship....

noble veldt
# acoustic dragon Alright, im just going to throw an example out there and you tell me if thats wh...

While I agree with that, the game offers more content with the league you are in, in the form of legendaries, talent trees on weapon, skills on weapon, more talents for your talent tree, gems and gem sockets on gear. Therefor I dont think its fair to do that comparison as a bronze player will have the exact same experience as the diamond but the diamond will just play with better players that are around his skill level. Eternal would be the deciding factor in this game imo and the different eternal levels would show your actual skill.

acoustic dragon
noble veldt
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We are not, that was my standpoint from the start

acoustic dragon
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Talents 100% should not be locked by leagues, that i will 100% agree with

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Legendaries are a high item level, those SHOULD be locked by league

lusty lark
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I disagree with that. The more the gameplay changes, the better.

noble veldt
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They are missing out on alot of content if they cant get past contender, which was my main argument

lusty lark
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Okay, so you unlock everything in contender (cause doing anything else, makes the game worse.) Now you get bored faster.

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I'm absolutely opposed to making paragon failure proof because people think they need to be there.

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more open to adding all the loot stuffs to contender (that's a lesser evil.)

acoustic dragon
lusty lark
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talents don't make or break a hero, they just change the game as people climb which is good.

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variety is nice.

acoustic dragon
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Ask Mara that

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because it 100% does for mara

lusty lark
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the only difference is, you're weaker, just like everyone else.

vale valley
# acoustic dragon Alright, im just going to throw an example out there and you tell me if thats wh...

While i agree with some of your points, this comparison does not make sense.

League Ranks are a measure of Skill and percentile based, its an ELO system.
The leagues in Fellowship are more like chapters in a campaign. Its not really comparable. everyone can gear their way to drakheim. you can't just farm gear in league to hit diamond, you have to actually be in the top x% of players to get diamond.

acoustic dragon
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mara is F tier till she gets her champion talent point

vale valley
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ardeos is the same

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some characters just play like garbage before they have all their talent points

gaunt isle
acoustic dragon
vale valley
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yeah but thats what im saying, it shouldnt be like that, and imo it isnt. all the content until eternal is fully outgearable, it just takes a worse player longer

acoustic dragon
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it 100% is outgearable, thats why you still have dps players in champion/paragon that dont use their kicks

lusty lark
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problem is, worse players don't want to grind, and don't want to fail lol.

vale valley
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cant please everyone sadly

gaunt isle
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the reason it currently still is divided just like league, is because the people who feel they get stuck tend to just quit and log out forever being in adept or whatever.
Yes it is outgearable, not everyone likes the idea of outgearing it, but then if they also refuse to learn the core concepts they are lacking to get out of adept, what are devs supposed to do about it if not dumbing down the game?

vale valley
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i think, no matter how bad someone is, everyone should be able to experience all the games content. they should be able to get all talent points, play around with legendaries, see all the dungeons.

the only thing that should be locked behind skill is actual dungeon rating and high eternal levels

lusty lark
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something might feel lacking vs actually being so

vale valley
gaunt isle
acoustic dragon
vale valley
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the bleed build is kinda playable early on, but you really need talent points. especially the legendary boots are a HUGE upgrade

lusty lark
vale valley
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The only thing i would change is smoothen out the difficulty curve

acoustic dragon
vale valley
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right now theres a huge bump in adept, and then once you make it past that jump, champion and paragon is kind of a mindless grind

lusty lark
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like tank outdpsing stuff post buffs on certain pulls probably isn't a surprise?

acoustic dragon
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Overall dungeon i was beating the mara by 10-20%, certain pulls were higher than others sure

lusty lark
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like you're outdpsing mara sure, but what about others? could just be the norm due to cooldown usage / lack of.

acoustic dragon
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But yes, talent points being locked behind leagues is a bit of a problem

lusty lark
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but like dps to dps probably vary 100% (low end vs top.)

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like just due to skill.

gaunt isle
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I think every dps flows better the more talents they have, in cases like mara/ardeos where the early game feels horrible it would be good to check if some slight tweaking isn't in order, talents should be impactful but not mandatory.
The tariq changes were a good attempt at allowing more than one playstyle on him, not sure if it was entirely succesful but if other classes struggle with similar issues it should be looked at that way.

lusty lark
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top player will do double with same gear/ talents or something

acoustic dragon
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Im sure skill factors into it, but even people that are 15k+ that decided to play mara as their alt all say the same thing, the champion talent point does wonders to her dps, the boots make it even better

lusty lark
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aren't last two talents not mandatory due to people probably take damage reductions?

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so still puts us at champion just not every.

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like all dps get a boost with more talent points, wonder if the jump for mara is far more than others

gaunt isle
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I've only played mara up to adept at this point but even in all those runs i've never felt like i was wildly behind t he other dps tbh.
But its hard to compare since i have no clue what the quality of the other dps was in that dungeon, so just being higher dps as someone else that might have just been a new player pressing one button per 3 seconds doesn't say much ofc 😛

atomic wigeon
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People should be able to flag themselfes as "chill" or "tryhard" so the toxic players can opt in to play with other toxic players. Problem solved.

soft dune
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Which ones are the toxic ones

atomic wigeon
zealous pier
gaunt isle
# atomic wigeon The tryhards

Define tryhard, you're making it seem like a very black/white problem, but theres a rather big spectrum from complete incompetent player willing to learn, so somewhere in the middle with a learning mindset, to very top of the leaderboard pusher.
A leaderboard pusher isn't necessarily a 'try hard', it can still just be a group of players who happen to enjoy pushing hard content together, without flaming eachother.
In my experience its often the incompetent players not willing to learn who are the toxic ones and come off as try hard.

atomic wigeon
proud trout
# sage turtle Not contesting this advice, learnt a lot on the fly in weeks 1 & 2, and if peopl...

This sounds so weird to me. Are we playing different game? I have reached 10k on main, Eternal on 3 chars and rest are in Adept. My play time is ~360h.

I play 95% solo with the exception being Eternal where I play with a couple of players I encountered while going through Paragon.

During my HUNDREDS if not close to thousand dungeon runs I've encountered someone being mildly toxic maybe 3-5 times. And none of those times has come anywhere close to what I have dealt with in LoL, CS:GO or Dota 2.

Do understand that mileage may vary, but hearing these stories feels odd.

acoustic dragon
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There is going to be toxic players in every online game, it simply cannot be avoided. However out of all the games i have played Fellowship is 1 of the least toxic along with WoW Classic (not sure on endgame classic but while leveling i havent encountered a single toxic person)

glossy mica
# acoustic dragon There is going to be toxic players in every online game, it simply cannot be avo...

Toxicity can and should be avoided, saying that it can't be avoided is nonsense. Mythic + as a system breeds toxicity and elitism, the timer incentivizes players to play good and go fast. Anyone who doesn't play good and go fast (which is all low/mid level players) are going to get shit on, not only by the game but by the community as well and the result is that they're going to quit. The only kind of players who enjoy mythic + in the long term are sweats because they're not the ones experiencing the toxicity/the leavers/and constantly bricking timers because of their own performance. Toxicity will always happen to an extent, but the developers are able to control how much of it happens and how impactful it is with how they design the game.

soft dune
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You've never seen someone bad at the game be toxic towards someone good? Extremely common in games.

lusty lark
glacial river
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i promise you there are toxic people among sweats. but good players tend to make friends with and group with good players and ignore the toxic ones. make some friends. this game feels amazing with friends, and terrible when you pug.

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if you had a good run. friend the people in your run. next time you play, message them and see if they want to group.

glossy mica
# lusty lark don't play m+ the game, and not want m+.

Why wouldn't I play it, I like everything else about the game, and I'm also fairly sweaty so the problems of mythic+ don't really effect me. Also I'm not sure why you would even think to say this to anyone unless you just really enjoy playing dead games. Mythic+ is a dogshit system for low and mid level players, always has been ... if those players quit then this game will never be popular. You might not give a shit if they quit, you might be fine with playing a dead game but I would rather play a game thats actually popular and I assume the devs would like to make money.

carmine thicket
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i feel every time people stop winning they run to complain that the game is not casual friendly. this game is about repetition and learning. and getting endlessly harder content. you need to accept that you will hit the skill wall.

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treat failed runs as learning. people flaming you for a bad route. sure F them for flaming, but next time maybe try another route/pull.

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the game has like 10 dungeons in total. the content is getting better and better at them and your hero.

noble veldt
# carmine thicket i feel every time people stop winning they run to complain that the game is not ...

Well yeah its quite normal to quit a game where you are still stuck at the lowest ranks and you cant even experience all the content the game has to offer because you dont have enough skill to make it further. Its not about reading up or getting enough practice for some its simply the fact that they cant get better, and there are alot more of those players then you’d probably think. But if you want long ques and less updates then sure we can gatekeep all the low/medium skilled people away from the game. But it Will affect everyone in the end.

carmine thicket
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I mean, it's an endlessly scaling game; if you make it easier the better players will just go higher, you won't interact with them anyways.
Your argument is for everyone to play at the same level. That's Quick Play and it's boring as hell

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Think of it as a difficulty in other games.
You don't come to some Uncharted or other game saying it's not casual friendly because I can't play on the hardest difficulty.
you just select something appropriate for you and play there, untill you are done with the game.
Here it can be for someone Champion, if you don't feel like getting better and progressing you can get your alt to champion or just chill untill the next season.

noble veldt
# carmine thicket I mean, it's an endlessly scaling game; if you make it easier the better players...

Holy ignorance, i said they cant even see all the content in this game because its locket behind a certain skill level i never said to make eternal levels easier, but let people experience the full game and put in some hours so we can get more people hooked on it before they quit. Thats why all games (almost) are easy at the beginning and gradually gets harder. This game already starts at the expert difficulty and just goes upwards in difficulty.

carmine thicket
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WDYM all content?
Everything but capstones is available.
If you ask me you should be able to see capstones on the lower difficulty, cause having people first timing Ranshak on Paragon is not good IMO

noble veldt
carmine thicket
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Following this argument you could ask to get everything from QP.
It's nice to get new thing as you progress

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and 3 talent's point is not that much of a content NGL

noble veldt
carmine thicket
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there are things in DS only available in NG+

noble veldt
carmine thicket
noble veldt
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No but what i am saying is they will quit and the ques will be lounger and less money for the devs. If you are fine with that then sure keep the attitude of towards lesser skilled players. But i actually like the game and would like more people to get into it and not gatekeep them cause some elitists wants the game really hard from the start so they can enjoy it.

carmine thicket
noble veldt
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Sure if thats what you think, but with the current difficulty alot of people wont even buy the game and give it a chance because they already know its too hard for them.

carmine thicket
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You know most people don't play pass the spider mount, if they would put the highest reward in some Adept, those people would quit as well

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I know there is a lot they could do for different levels of players, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to come to the game that is designed for you to improve your knowledge and skill to progress (or farm for gear) and ask it to remove this aspect to appealto the players, who don't wanna play this game.

It's like saying the new people won't come because they know you don't get to play FPS extraction shooter. But it's not the design of the game

noble veldt
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Lets just agree to disagree, i dont wanna spend more time arguing endlessly. But thanks for the conversation and have a great day!

carmine thicket
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same, have a nice day

gaunt isle
# noble veldt Well yeah its quite normal to quit a game where you are still stuck at the lowes...

The toxicity is going to be a lot worse when low skill player are in higher ranks though. In adept nobody should be flaming, its a low rank where people have to learn. On every alt i push throigh adept i know this and just help. I am fairly certain that the toxic people in adept are low skilled players themselves who think they know more.

But if low skilled players make it to eternal, and mess up base mechanics, its almost understandable that the others in the team will want to complain about that. I will never condone pure toxicity out of nowhere but in such a situation i can see it happen. This is why adept is a wall, you get throigh it when you learn what you needed to learn or that is how it should be.

glacial river
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ok, i'm not reading all that meaningless back and forth, but from the bit i read....gear is not content, this game is not hard, you just have to play the game and press all your buttons, not just the ones you want to and ignore the stuff that will save your life. this game should not reward NOT learning the rules of the game. if you want to be lazy and just press the dps buttons and not read tooltips, and not look at whats happening on your screen then don't get angry when you hit your skill wall earlier than others. cosmetics in this game are a reward for achievement, not participation trophies.

glacial river
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and i dont want to play a game where the mouth breathers aren't trapped down in adept and i have to worry if i'm going to get one in my eternal group because someone wanted everyone to get access to eternal stuff without bothering to learn how to play the game. i will tell you THAT will make me quit.

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the other part of what you are missing that in fellowship, just like in wow m+, there are people that get out of contender and are very happy about it, just like there are people that clear a +10 and think its great. they don't know about leaderboards, they dont' care about the person getting 15k rating, its not even in their world. they are playing the game for the game (as most casuals do).

noble veldt
glacial river
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kek

carmine thicket
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Reading this makes me understand why M+ has no rewards past 12+ ANd they were so hesitant to add even that, people are so entilted to everything, it's impossible to gate anything behind skill wall

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TBH FS you can get almost every reward by grinding, it's a participation trophy as well

glacial river
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entitlement is the perfect word here. people think because something exists in a game they are entitled to it. i was always pro participation trophies in kids leagues, now i'm seeing the results. people were never taught sportsmanship and respectful competition. people used to look at someone with the best gear and the rare mount and appreciate their accomplishment, now they say "why are you gatekeeping that from me"

lusty lark
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thought 10k would be more prestigious, but nah, KSL had more prestige.

carmine thicket
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i mean its “rare” but mostly cause a lot of people dont care enough

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or maybe im used to it and dont feel how much skill i have

lusty lark
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it was a let down knowing that even if I come up short skill wise, there's ample more power left on the table.

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Solo queue through adept league was more rewarding lol..

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(before all the changes, after, idk.)

carmine thicket
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for my first run fr it was harder and more rewarding than whole ethernal adventures

lusty lark
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yeep

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you need to grind too much for challenge at eternal else you're just taking vastly unprepared people

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then it's kinda like why do that

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people can play better, maybe people can do 10k at 250 etc, but with that in mind, if you try that, and know there's probably 60% or more power left on the table.... it doesn't feel great.

carmine thicket
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its just feels dumb to push with no gear, and way to ez with gear