Campsites

[hollow laurel]

I love them!

[twin orchid]

Ahh got it! Here is perfect

[hollow laurel]

I got you Bretton.

[cold spoke]

Quite like them, unsure if they are needed in dungeons. But a massive shoutout for making the last boss the checkpoint in dungeons.

[cerulean orbit]

They look good to me. I think with adventures being quick little intros, basically, they're solid.

[limpid geyser]

We used them to skip trash packs by having the tank drag the pack out of the way so we could click a campfire later on

[olive sandal]

I think they take a bit too long to activate but overall I like them. Checkpoints are always appreciated.

[gritty plume]

I enjoy the checkpoint system, you can do some pretty cool skips with them. There are some weirder checkpoints like in nightpatrol where there are 2 of them basically in a row.

[floral yew]

I like them and think they work well in this type of game

[cerulean orbit]

Oof. can't say I'm a fan of skipping that way though O_o

[languid shale]

I didn't even really notice that they weren't in Dungeons, but I really like them in Adventures. None of them feel out of place, and I really like the frequency with which they're made available.

More strategic placement for advanced routing could be really cool, but the Adventures are short enough that I don't think that's really possible without over-saturating the placements

[plucky crest]

They're perfect. They explicitly tell you where you're going to respawn instead of having innate knowledge of the dungeon

[languid shale]

^

[floral yew]

I think it would be good if they just activated when you run by them instead of interacting with them

[languid shale]

I like the interaction step, but they could maybe be a shorter cast time

[limpid geyser]

There's one kinda weird thing where the last NP campfire can be clicked without pulling the pack next to it, but when you respawn there you instantly pull the pack

[cerulean orbit]

Or maybe just a right click that doesn't have a cast bar

[unkempt yarrow]

These are pretty amazing, I will say the only side piece with this is they shouldn't be near where a mob can spawn, specifically the last one in Night Patrol even though it is a crowded area, I would prefer it to be in a little alcove or something. We got stuck a little while because a mob in +12 Night Patrol was just camping the campfire that our Arteos was on by mistake.

All in all a great feature though and a nice checkpoint system

[limpid geyser]

Catches a lot of people out and can be a bit of a noob trap

[opaque trench]

I think they're a perfect visual indicator if nothing else. I would have loved to see campfires spawn (pre-lit) on boss kills as well to communicate the different respawns.

[proud wharf]

agree on this one

[reef stratus]

I've gotten locked out of boss rooms more than once because I was activating a checkpoint in case we messed up a mechanic and wiped (wyrmheart caverns especially, if I'm not confident the tank will keep the boss pointed away from the party). Naturally getting locked out tends to cause a wipe, but at least there's a checkpoint nearby to shorten the walk of shame

[twin orchid]

How would we feel about them spawning on bosses instead of auto setting Respawn point?

[cerulean orbit]

I think that would be prefered. I also think locking the boss room from ONLY one direction is a good idea. Don't let people out but let people in.

[opaque trench]

#1275208245555892305 message

[proud wharf]

Near by would be fine also. I could see someone accidentally starting the boss before all spawned

[cold spoke]

I'd absolutely forget to click them haha

[languid shale]

spawning them on bosses but auto-lighting them would be cool, maybe with a flare-y animation with the logs falling and then spontaneously combusting

[limpid geyser]

If you're doing more non linear / 4+ boss dungeons I think that would be preferable in some cases

[languid shale]

^

[hollow laurel]

Yeah, Wraithtide is a good example.. where multiple paths leads to weird respawn points.

[languid shale]

If doing non-linear, it would be cool to be able to re-activate ones you previously used to change your spawn point

[olive sandal]

Bosses are already basically checkpoints in a dungeon, making them mechanical checkpoints too makes sense

[languid shale]

(with something like a circular dungeon layout or w/e)

[limpid geyser]

Sometimes you get a boss respawn point that's just worse than the previous one

Or the starting area

[opaque trench]

"Start dungeon, go left, kill boss, intentionally don't light fire, jump off map, go back to start, go right" kinda ideas?

[severe robin]

I enjoy the idea of choosing if you want to light the fire or not

[twin orchid]

Would NOT auto-lighting after a boss offer interesting purposeful death to jump back to another route?

[limpid geyser]

Yes

[limpid geyser]

Yes

[gritty plume]

100%

[languid shale]

yeah I think so

[cerulean orbit]

That makes sense yes

[limpid geyser]

It also opens up your options to make dungeons less linear

[patent meadow]

yeah definitely

[opaque trench]

I'm worried for cursed runs where we forget to light them lol

[limpid geyser]

Because you're no longer giving us a bad respawn down a long corridor

[hollow laurel]

Yes. They should be manual.. to give the group some sort of ... "oh hey.. you were supposed to click that".. it mixes it up a bit..

[patent meadow]

depends if you want death skips like that to be a part of the game but imo itd be sick to enable em

[limpid geyser]

Drakeheart I would LOVE to be able to just die after the ranger boss an go right to the elemental

[patent meadow]

any added optimization potential is fun

[languid shale]

@twin orchid actually slight change, auto-lighting with the option to douse them to disable I think would be good for that. Allows purposeful death routing, but is pug-protected for "normal" routing through a dungeon (saving you from all 4 forgetting to click/not realizing it spawns to click)

[opaque trench]

I can absolutely accept the upsides of having the choice over the downside of forgetting sometimes and laughing about it

[severe robin]

Player choice = good

[cerulean orbit]

I mean they could make campfires fast travel points

[patent meadow]

Honestly i feel concerned about how good this would really be though?

[cerulean orbit]

Why die

[patent meadow]

you need the trash in between to re farm ult right

it'd still be cool to see but

[languid shale]

tbh hopefully that gets changed xd

but depending on dungeon layout it may be easy to build ult for boss, blow ult on boss, then die and re-build before next boss

[twin orchid]

In Demonbrand we have that shortcut after the 1st boss on the way to the 2nd. That gets kind of redundant with campfires nearby or past that though

[limpid geyser]

Faster than running back

[cerulean orbit]

I know so wouldn't a fast travel point make more sense?

[patent meadow]

I feel the opposite actually, i think building ults adds a really really cool concept to the routing and an awesome way to express skill

[opaque trench]

Fast travel feels like cheating.

[patent meadow]

my tank earlier just intuitively changed the route to pull more stuff after i blasted ult at a bad time before boss

it shocked me and was really cool to see

[cerulean orbit]

How is it different than jumping off a ledge tho

[twin orchid]

I usually take the fast track under the stairs to skip the shortcut, but I guess campfires act a bit similarly

[opaque trench]

Changing your respawn point is a commitment you can't go back from.

[limpid geyser]

Yeah dont like fast travel

[languid shale]

well i was referring specifically to losing ult on death not the builder nature of it, but I would agree to disagree anyway, cos I vastly prefer cooldown management and pulling around the group's available CDs to mid-run route management like that

[reef stratus]

So some thoughts/suggestions from reading the thread:

1. Remove automatic spawn point at bosses
2. Spawn campfire at bosses, do not light automatically
3. Make activating a campfire deactivate any other ones, so you can change your spawn point mid-dungeon (may be a bigger deal with larger non-linear dungeons or raids in the future...)
4. Speed up activation time, so it's less tedious, if they now need to be activated after every boss (it's a bit like the mid dungeon looting problem, you don't want to slow things down too much, though not activating a spawn point after a boss could still make sense for speedruns when climbing leaderboards)

[patent meadow]

ultimately they serve a very similar purpose but i think seeing the sameish concept explored in a brand new way is really exciting

[limpid geyser]

Does the cast time do anything if they cant be activated in combat?

[patent meadow]

this game needs to distinguish itself from wow as much as possible without alienating potential players

and ult mechanics are a sick way to do that

for me at least

[limpid geyser]

Ults make a LOT more sense when you have gear

[patent meadow]

^ this too

[languid shale]

yeah agreed, I just prefer it the other way. doesnt mean its bad tho

[twin orchid]

Awesome feedback folks!

[patent meadow]

Agree with all 4.

[twin orchid]

Then we can add unique visuals to unlock for players that activate the campsite, and we’re gucci

[opaque trench]

Team is running off while healer has to stay behind and come in late on a pull or whatever

[languid shale]

add those puppies to the cash shop and watch the profit soar B)

[cerulean orbit]

heh

[opaque trench]

Yo that's actual fire, holy moly.

[twin orchid]

Cast bar is there to reinforce intention and make sure you’re not accidentally hitting it if you don’t want to

[cerulean orbit]

I see whay you did there

[patent meadow]

btw off topic but devs being so hands on is sweet and the design philosophy displayed with the changes in this patch is very exciting. luv it

[languid shale]

^

ditto

[opaque trench]

Makes good sense. I can accept that.

[severe robin]

I don't think the campfire takes too long to activate in it's current state, feels fine

[limpid geyser]

Ah that's a valid point

[twin orchid]

I think it’s 2sec cast

[languid shale]

i think just a half sec off the cast time would be perf

[gritty plume]

campfire activation time is not a big deal tbh

[languid shale]

feels like a 25 sec cast sometimes

[twin orchid]

Same as cannon after Pirate Captain boss

[patent meadow]

1.5s would be nice but its really not that big of an issue yeah. people are usually naturally desynced in movement a little and you wait around at the boss for them to show up anyway

[severe robin]

"After pirate captain" glad we're all accepting that he's the true first boss

[limpid geyser]

^

[twin orchid]

May also set the braziers to interact instead of needing to kill hellcallers before first boss in Demonbrand

[languid shale]

if there's 1 thing ive learned in 20 years of playing wow and other mmos, 1.5 sec is crazy fast and fluid, 1.6 sec or greater is way too slow

[opaque trench]

Friends don't let friends go right in Wraithtide.

[patent meadow]

ideally meta evolves to where either the first person to reach it or the character with the best mobility is who activates campfire but ... whatever

even as it is right now with people just winging it i have no issues w cast time

[limpid geyser]

When things take the length of the gcd

You feel it

And its great

[languid shale]

💯

[severe robin]

you mean healers

[patent meadow]

not necessarily? unless the campfire has some other effect im not aware of

theoretically slightly less time would be lost if the fastest possible interaction (closest member) interacts with it

[limpid geyser]

Healer isnt needed for the start of the pull

[languid shale]

anything that isnt "pull" or "smack" = healer job

[severe robin]

An effect that isn't directly combat related? HEALER PROBLEM

[limpid geyser]

Dps are doing more damage

Tank isnt taking damage

[gritty plume]

healers being told to do the odd jobs

[limpid geyser]

It'll never change

[patent meadow]

that is true but i guess i was thinking pre boss specifically where you have to wait for all to be in the arena anyway

[languid shale]

^

oh yeah in that case its just whomever

[opaque trench]

Tell that to Meiko

[severe robin]

lmao

[patent meadow]

my bad

ur prob right healz do it

[languid shale]

i'm a healer main and i approve this message 👍

[hollow laurel]

Healers Tank Coin Boss - Change my mind.

[patent meadow]

i feel like a lot of mechanics are kinda forced on the healers atm. like bael for example, makes no sense for any other role to control ball (still love the boss tho)