nerf gp?

[soft cliff]

hes got like 2200 hp with the crit build

[turbid iron]

but like in most situations

he is not a velkoz

or smth

[soft cliff]

~2500 if you're the triforce build

with low resists and only peel is a 15% heal cc cleanse

[turbid iron]

i have less hp than him on skirmishers usually

[soft cliff]

hes squishier than a velkoz

[turbid iron]

not given his w and peel

[soft cliff]

he has almost 100 more hp than velkoz at lvl 18 but he's also a melee champ

but velkoz builds into things that give hp or resists

gp also has 0 cc

[turbid iron]

he slows

by a lot

and speeds himself

both will always occur

and ofc cleanses if you cc him so its not like cc is an advantage over him

[soft cliff]

slows arent cc though

shit like an irelia will just run thru u

one of the hardest matchups for most gps ^

trynda is literally unplayable post6 if the trynda is good bc gp has 0 cc

[turbid iron]

like awesome i still dont care about beating him in lane

as this isnt the way i interact with him

and i dont think him having some bad matchups

balances what he does to the game

to begin with

[soft cliff]

e slow is 40-80% based on rank btw

[turbid iron]

thats a lot

[soft cliff]

his only peel

and then 15-30% ms on passive

[turbid iron]

no his ult also slows

and he peels by healing himself + cleansing cc

if that wasnt obvious

[soft cliff]

30% and youre not using it to peel lmao

[turbid iron]

it lasts 8 seconds

with the slow lasting a little after that

you can use it for both setup and peel

[soft cliff]

you can walk across the entire ult in less than 8 seconds

[turbid iron]

i agree?

[soft cliff]

its only rlly used to help bot lane / assists and to slow into a barrel

[turbid iron]

im just saying with how long the effect is that it can serve multiple purposes

in a fight

[soft cliff]

he has an extremely good kit

[turbid iron]

like for example you slow into a barrel, its setup, the barrel slow ends and lets say you didnt 100-0 they can now start to fight back

except for the fact

that they continue to be slowed

and you continue getting ms

the whole time

and you continue to have your w

which is like your best peel ability even

that is all absurd already

without mentioning

that he has the most ridiculous one shots

in the whole game

which imo

is the elephant in the room

when discussing gp

[soft cliff]

you can go more indepth

all of his abilities have lockouts he's simple to counter

half of his dmg comes from something that enemies can literally kill

[turbid iron]

depends entirely on your champ if you have ANY counterplay and he can still win anyway with good gameplay

[soft cliff]

extremely difficult to execute kit

any champ can win with good gameplay

[turbid iron]

if you are faker and perma dodge any barrel the whole game sure

melee champs who die with 1 random barrel have less counterplay vs gp than anyone in the whole game

and its not close

[soft cliff]

melee champs shouldnt be getting one barreled

[turbid iron]

anyone else can still lose

any skirmisher gets 1 barreled

assassins too

[soft cliff]

the only things you can one barrel are enchanters and adcs consistently

barrels do like 1900 dmg

[turbid iron]

assassins and skirmishers have like 1800 hp

[soft cliff]

they got 2100ish lvl18

[turbid iron]

yea you have like 200 more if ur 18

[soft cliff]

and they can build things like edge of night which stop barrel dmg and stop one shot

[turbid iron]

but usually you wont be lv 18

in a game

[soft cliff]

this is also 0 armor dmg

lvl 18 95 armor - 49% dmg reduc

[turbid iron]

why are we comparing to lv 18 to begin with

[soft cliff]

hes a scaler

his one shot is basically only late game

[turbid iron]

i agree hes fed for this

he will always have more xp

than junglers or assassins

even if not fed

unless behind

so if he is ahead like forget it

u will be oneshot by 1 e

and not counting ult or q damage

[soft cliff]

its still extremely hard to execute

[turbid iron]

like lol

[soft cliff]

i get ahead literally every single game

in lane

and i am unable to carry because i am not good enough at the champs mechanics

[turbid iron]

i agree its hard but playing vs someone piloting it correctly feels way more 0 counterplay than if they were the same skill level on like riven

[soft cliff]

gp is more rewarding than riven yeah

but rivens harder

[turbid iron]

hes worse for the game in this aspect than like any toplaner

even like kayle i think he destroys games harder than

[soft cliff]

kayle has 0 counterplay in dodging her dmg

gp has

things like sion are even worse bc they just sit and sidelane and int deaths for towers till they win

[turbid iron]

thing is kayle you can realistically actually outrange

or counter her ult somehow if not

[soft cliff]

yes but you cant dodge aa's like you can gp e's

kayle ult is also giga broken compared to gps ult

[turbid iron]

sure but he just has to hit 1 random e

to ace the enemy team

if he is a decent player this should always happen

[soft cliff]

in a fight you only ever get 1 good barrel combo on average

he just punishes positioning

[turbid iron]

kill someone with a barrel -> kill someone with prowlers/passive/q -> self peel to infinity since it takes 5 on top of you to die

[soft cliff]

if any champ catches you without a barrel you are dead

if you miss a barrel in a fight you are dead 90% of the time unless its like an ashe without shieldbow

kayle can literally walk up to your team q aa e and kill anyone who doesnt have resists or hp

[turbid iron]

catching him is a crazy ask he can literally walk away between cleansing and slowing and speeding himself

[soft cliff]

and she is a tank buster/counter on top of that

all abils have lockouts

[turbid iron]

like any champ that would be able to catch him cant bc actually he can cleanse if his huge ms advantage isnt enough (and the 2 champs who could maybe stick anyway are oneshot without a barrel)

[soft cliff]

any dash champ can stick onto him my dude

anything with more than 1 cc or a slow

hes also not hard to catch bc if you do cc him he has to do like a half second lokcout to use his orange

[turbid iron]

ult slow and his movespeed alone outruns any dash champ

[soft cliff]

then to q the barrel he has to slow moving

dashes do not get slowed down

[turbid iron]

wdym he can orange instantly

[soft cliff]

orange has a cast time

[turbid iron]

he can orange right before the stun takes effect

[soft cliff]

its around half a sec

still has a half second lockout

[turbid iron]

why

[soft cliff]

the ability has a cast time

[turbid iron]

he can start the cast before the cc begins

[soft cliff]

that is still

equivalent

of

being

cced for half a sec

[turbid iron]

how?

[soft cliff]

he stops and eats the orange

...

[turbid iron]

ok

and he heals half his healthbar

in exchange

to dodging the rest of the cc

[soft cliff]

heal is 15% missing

[turbid iron]

plus base of like 100

more at 18

the 15 missing is like 300 alone if youre low

without the added base heal in case u arent

or even if you are

[soft cliff]

50-150

[turbid iron]

yea

its way more than ur doing in dmg during the cast time unless you can use your whole kit during it

in early/mid anyway

in late you can do a lot more dmg

but he can position to never need it way better

in lategame

and it becomes a free added tool for him to use

[soft cliff]

the w is the most broken thing in his kit

but with positioning you dont have to use it much

his w even cleanses knockups

you're allowed to do more than ifyou did a normal cleanse/qss as you're able to auto/use abils ontop of flash

i also believe you can cancel blast cones as well just like rengar can

rengars blast cone cancel is extremely hard but i've done it before

[turbid iron]

its a crazy ability you could halve the healing and itd be good

[compact flint]

yes

[astral flume]

No it doesn’t?

It only cleanse yasuo ult and sett ult

You can’t cleanse his nado or malphite ult

But it doesn’t matter anyways he won’t be nearly as strong in 12.10

The patch is an auto nerf to him so it’s fine

[compact flint]

when will rito

nerf Irelia

[astral flume]

Kalista and Lucian are his top counters so i wouldn’t say that

[astral flume]

Never

But If you watch one of solars videos he almost died to an irelia 2 levels down

He survived with single digit health

[turbid iron]

lucian counters him only because he can dodge barrels idk what ur even on abt

[astral flume]

And he does way more dmg than him like the first 15-20 minutes of the game?

[turbid iron]

yes because half gps kit is removed from the equation while he also cant proc passive as he is playing vs a ranged champ?

[astral flume]

So he counters him

That’s it lol

[turbid iron]

did i say champs who neuter his barrels dont counter him

[astral flume]

No but you said champs that are sticky can’t stick to him

That’s not true

[turbid iron]

lucian still cant if hes chasing across a big distance or dashes sideways if that is necessary for avoiding a barrel

he can dash into him and combo

[astral flume]

He can just keep dashing

He also takes galeforce

So he can definitely stick

[turbid iron]

lol its like 10 second cd after procing passive twice

[astral flume]

Aatrox Also stick to him

You can’t cleanse his chain

If he lands the first Q you will get hit by the second

[turbid iron]

ok?

wow so you need to position vs aatrox

and not facetank his whole kit

[astral flume]

So the champs that can stick can still stick to him

[turbid iron]

to be successful

nah

[astral flume]

It’s not that simple

[turbid iron]

must be that he counters you in that case

[astral flume]

He matches your Q range

[turbid iron]

if you cant q in as irelia with ignite

then its a counter right

vs aatrox

[astral flume]

What does irelia have to do with this?

Aatrox counters gp

[turbid iron]

?

[astral flume]

In nearly every aspect except scaling

Idk where irelia vs Aatrox came from

It seems like you’re saying that

[turbid iron]

what does aatrox do past level 4 early lane

[astral flume]

Still beat you?

He’s stronger at level 6 than 4

[turbid iron]

how is he trading you after he tries this once and pushes the wave?

[astral flume]

Have you ever played gp

And ever played the matchup

[turbid iron]

yea i think waves only exist

in that matchup actually

[astral flume]

Yes and like Aatrox

He can poke you under turret

Idc if you’re playing some bum Aatrox

He needs to know what he’s doing

Aatrox hard counters that

You either gonna fall behind cause he’s shoving waves in on you

Or you’ll lose the fight

[turbid iron]

aatrox poking you under turret when you have a wave is literally q e into nothing

[astral flume]

Unless you just outskill him

Ok dude you know more I guess

[turbid iron]

lol??

[astral flume]

Aatrox doesn’t counter him

[turbid iron]

does he w through your wave

under tower

[astral flume]

Idc about the W

Did I ever say

He does that

[turbid iron]

ok so hes only doing q e

[astral flume]

Yes

[turbid iron]

q1 or q2 with e

thats your entire poke

[astral flume]

And with his R he can legit dive you

And live

[turbid iron]

lol

if you slow him with 1 ability

and use w to heal

[astral flume]

Yes that’s why you win

[turbid iron]

maybe dodge 1 single ability

[astral flume]

Yes

Common logic

Didn’t think of this

[turbid iron]

when hes tanking turret?yes

like wtf

[astral flume]

Eventually the wave gonna reset

Then your back to square 1

[turbid iron]

well according to u hes just trading you aggressively on cd so

enjoy perma freeze

[astral flume]

If you keep getting shoved into turret

You’ll fall bashing

Behind*

You don’t freeze under turret bro

You freeze infront of it

[turbid iron]

i never said to freeze under tower

[astral flume]

You legit can’t step up to freeze is the issue

Or you get clapped

[turbid iron]

if you have a wave he can literally only q e done

but ur scared of a nonexistent combo

so you sit at t2

[astral flume]

The way to beat Aatrox is to outskill him and get ahead

Idk what to tell you man there’s a reason he loses the match up

But if you wanna try to justify it

That’s on you lol

[turbid iron]

so ur reasoning is ummmmmmmmmmmm

u can dive him... i swear

[astral flume]

No the reason is he loses the matchup

Simple as that

[turbid iron]

yea thats how matchups work actually

[astral flume]

Plat+ he loses to Aatrox

[turbid iron]

you lose because you lose

[astral flume]

That’s how it works

You either win a matchup

Go even

Lose it

[turbid iron]

no you either win for reasons or lose for reasons

[astral flume]

Or cancel that out by outskilling it

Yes if that was the case counters wouldn’t exist

[turbid iron]

?

[astral flume]

I’m talking about the champs themselves

[turbid iron]

yes

[astral flume]

Not the players

[turbid iron]

matchups

are either winning

for reasons

or losing

for reasons

[astral flume]

And Aatrox

Is a losing matchup

[turbid iron]

its not losing because its losing

[astral flume]

He’s way tankier than you

He out damages you

Out sustains you

[turbid iron]

he doesnt outdmg you unless ur comparing hitting a barrel to tanking a full combo

[astral flume]

Early game?

He definitely out damages you

[turbid iron]

by your metric every toplane champ counters gp

in the whole game

bc they will all outdmg you if they are sitting on top of you farming full combos

[astral flume]

He has 43 top lane counters

By wr

[turbid iron]

and be tankier

why are we using his wr

when its notoriously low

sub 45% when hes giga strong

[astral flume]

Because it’s high into certain matchups?

[turbid iron]

it doesnt need to be high for him to be v strong

[astral flume]

We know the champ is strong

That’s not the discussion

[turbid iron]

yea the discussion is you saying hes not vs someone provided he has low winrate in a matchup

when he has low wr overall and is still v strong

[astral flume]

He’s a skilled champ that’s why his wr is low

Not just everyone can play him

Riven is counted as skilled too but she’s so broken mistakes can be made up for

Mistakes on crit gp are either life or death

It’s that simple

[turbid iron]

wow!!! i agree!!!

so having a bad wr in like 40 matchups

doesnt mean those champs all counter him

he just has a low overall wr

[astral flume]

They have some type of edge

[turbid iron]

no

[astral flume]

That even the high elo players struggle into the matchup

[turbid iron]

what ur saying then is that he isnt strong

bc u think

40 champs

have an edge on him

[astral flume]

He’s not a blind pick champ

Is what I’m saying

[turbid iron]

which is btw untrue

[turbid iron]

he is

[astral flume]

Ok yea I’ll just blind pick while they lock in a hard counter

And unplayable one at that

[turbid iron]

yea who is playing lucian top

if you are good at gp theres like <5 champs who counter you and thats including out of lane

[astral flume]

High elo into gp?

They lock-in azir too

Kalista as well

Azir soldiers can auto his barrels

Why wouldn’t they pick these people?

Legit played against a Lucian top 2 days ago

Also against Karthus top who matches your range

[turbid iron]

do you not think a champ is insane when you need to lock in azir top to interact?

[astral flume]

You don’t

You lock in azir top for a free lane

There’s nothing you can do as gp into that

So why not pick it?

[turbid iron]

its like 48.33 wr only

for gp

wow so free insane

[astral flume]

Check the in lane stats

Gp scales better

So he has a chance to bring the game back

[turbid iron]

thats like 80% of gp matchups

so idk what to tell you

[astral flume]

My bad I’m at work I’m back now

Well right now it doesn’t matter anyways cause he will change with the 12.10

It doesn’t really favor him that much

[turbid iron]

i think 12.10 might make him balanced but will have to see to be sure

[astral flume]

Same

His mana costs are still the same with the same low mana and it’s gonna take a lot more to finish these bruisers off as well as skill expression to beat them

And to one shot anyone he has to have either a massive lead or first strike full build

And even then it requires they have 0 armor items

[robust elk]

if gp orenges meanwhile drowzy he gets rid of the sleep