thin narwhal
jungle meta rn is just champions with undodgable ganks that do WAY too much damage
nocturne, nunu, zac, rengar, rammus, reksai, fiddle, its all just champs that can easily close gaps on you for free, and insta kill you after
jungle already is the most broken role, with global map presence, free access to all objectives, and the biggest control over player bounties and objective bounties, there's no reason to have champs like zac 1 shot your adc from 4000 units away
frail whale
Get good, avoiding ganks & tracking the jungle is super simple and easy to do
thin narwhal
Get good, avoiding ganks & tracking the jungle is super simple and easy to do
"jungle is actually a useless role just track the jungler 4head"
valid stone
support determines who wins jungle
if jung is broken ur role is 10x as broken automatically
thin narwhal
support determines who wins jungle
how? support can ward botside jungle and roam when theres a fight but thats it
valid stone
setting up plays/invades/roaming to fights and swinging them
unless there is an enormous jung skill gap
then sup is the determining factor
thin narwhal
setting up plays/invades/roaming to fights and swinging them
i dont understand how a yuumi or lulu is gonna set up massive plays for the jungler..
valid stone
obviously yuumi is the worst sup in the game for early plays
lulu can tho they are just slightly worse karma in early
valid stone
obviously yuumi is the worst sup in the game for early plays
rly i think this is the crux of why you have this thought process
you see that ur champ is less good than others at influencing the game
and so you think wow the result of influencing the game is broken
thin narwhal
i mean unless you are playing champions like nautilus leona pyke or bard
i dont see how you are setting up anything for your jungler outside of vision
valid stone
wtf? no
like do you think janna karma dont have this same play potential
alistar
most supports do
like any except yuumi really
thin narwhal
i dont get what the play potential is you are talking about
valid stone
i already said
swinging fights or enabling plays
in any instance where 2 jungs are remotely similar skill
the sup who does more in that respect will determine jung outcome
thin narwhal
yeah but it still depends on if the support is in a spot to roam, and if the fight is even botside no?
valid stone
not rlly supports can walk topside with no penalty if they sync it correctly
its more limited bc of the timing for it
but u def are not hard restricted to botside plays
thin narwhal
yeah but you cant do that very often
valid stone
idk
doing it twice already seems like too much
and depending on sup pick they can do that 3x
in any case u are certainly not unable as sup to do lots of diff plays
thin narwhal
not as much as jungle tho
valid stone
ok but you determine the impact of jungle on those plays
thin narwhal
if you can roam
which is not as often as you are making it out to be
unless you are bard or pyke
valid stone
any melee support or sup with an ms steroid
thin narwhal
which isnt a lot
thin narwhal
how?
valid stone
lulu janna karma all have this
thin narwhal
lulu has it on a 25 sec cd
which is also her most important ability
janna's got mega nerfed
valid stone
lol its not 25s
thin narwhal
i think it is level 1
valid stone
no?
keep in mind the cd starts at cast
not when speed runs out
and again cdr first back
valid stone
ok and 3s of that is uptime
25 seconds btw!
anyway yes this does make them mobile enough to do map plays
thin narwhal
it helps but saying shes great for roaming purely cus of 3 seconds of ms is an exagerration
but regardless the majority of supports have no real ms steroid
valid stone
you have to consider that there is no punishment for moving
thin narwhal
you can get really behind in exp or your adc just dies
if you roam too much
and roams can sometimes end up being useless
valid stone
it is not possible to get behind in xp unless you sit in fountain
thin narwhal
its not like you have a 30 second window to roam to every fight
fight can last like 7 seconds
valid stone
you can literally be yuumi sitting on a jungler from minute 6 and not go down levels
valid stone
4 levels behind on support is literally not possible u need to be 0/12
for that to ever happen
you can literally be walking in circles on the map holding random waves
you will go even xp
valid stone
enemy sup ofc?
thin narwhal
if they stay in lane, they are the same as adc
id say supp being down a few levels is okay midgame
but pre6 its pretty bad
valid stone
if they stay in lane, they are the same as adc
splitting xp compared to random solo wave xp walking around the map is even
thin narwhal
solo wave exp from where
thin narwhal
mid and top are in lanes, no?
holding waves doesnt give you exp
if you are holding a wave the enemy minions arent dying
valid stone
they do as you leave or as you trim it
thin narwhal
nah
sitting in lane with your adc absolutely gives more exp
than holding a wave every few minutes and taking the exp from 3 minions
valid stone
nope wrong minions are so high level compared to avg duolane lvl that you are getting a third of your xp bar when one dies
applies until after lv 10
thin narwhal
i mean idk what to say
go perma roam on any support
or afk on jungler minute 6 on yuumi
it just wont give you as much exp
valid stone
ive done this??? if you fail roam you can fall behind max 1 level
requires you play badly and team doesnt have setup
valid stone
theres no world where you are punished for normal roaming
valid stone
you help your laner push if you kill enemy ofc?
thin narwhal
you arent cosistently roaming as soraka or lulu
and just casually killing the enemy midlaner
thats not what happens at all
thin narwhal
roaming top definitely won't give you equal exp
valid stone
you arent cosistently roaming as soraka or lulu
you should be
valid stone
as lulu yes
if you proc soraka passive walking top no
the thing is in order to establish a scenario where you can fall behind from roaming you literally need to say lulu pre 6 roaming top
the only world youre doing that play is if its already going to be massively successful 2 kills
and needing to qualify it this way already establishes how broken the role is
thin narwhal
you're just exaggerating everything
theres no consistent "plan" to consistently solo kill enemy junglers and enemy toplaners in solo queue
valid stone
i disagree
if u play jungle you will find rlly simple trends for what precedes fights
contesting an invade contesting a crab counterganking
its not just like random slot machine every minute to find some new insane way that a fight starts
and if u want to say no one ever dies then i dont think enemy jungs are carrying in ur games
thin narwhal
but its not really accurate to say "rift / scuttle is up, if i roam top its free kills" either
valid stone
yep i agree
you have to understand what the enemy jung will contest
you can track them for that or guess
the assumption is also usually that the enemy team wont give everything
and really you only have to be correct like maybe twice max in a game
thin narwhal
you surely have to have more than 2 succesful roams to win in solo queue
valid stone
you surely have to have more than 2 succesful roams to win in solo queue
in the type of scenario where youre swinging a fight and killing 1-2 people + getting whatever objective and +1 enemy camp etc twice in a game i cant imagine you lose without an absolutely insane team gap of like everyone dying 6 times 1v1
thin narwhal
in the type of scenario where youre swinging a fight and killing 1-2 people + ge...
i mean i just did exactly that and lost
valid stone
@thin narwhal dont worry i went 19/1/3 as jg today and lost
thin narwhal
i got blamed aswell
thin narwhal
our mid went from 4/1
valid stone
like ??
thin narwhal
to 6/7
valid stone
by my 1/10 top
thin narwhal
to like 10/12
valid stone
pinging me
valid stone
XD
thin narwhal
toplaners have inflated elo im telling u..
they just die over and over
have no idea whats happening
thin narwhal
i literally dont know
i had an irelia
go 1/12
against aatrox
and she bought thornmail
at 35 minutes into the game
valid stone
lol
frail whale
"jungle is actually a useless role just track the jungler 4head"
Yeah just track the jungler it isn't that hard
I play jungle myself and i know how important it is to track the enemy jungle, i have no idea why the laners don't do it as well
normal jungle
lmao the dude complaining about top being inflated is the same one claiming yuumi is the hardest sup and jg is broken "undodgeable ganks"
willow lantern
I feel like this is op's problem with their support pick
Yuumi is obviously bad for warding and jungle tracking
The less bad but still bad would be Soraka, Nami and Sona
otherwise all other supports can be comfortable putting down river wards and deep wards to notice incoming junglers
weary talon
play janna if you want to counter dive jg
thin narwhal
ez
radiant sorrel