#"iron and silver are no different."

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

silent oasis
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Unironically this is a wrong statement.

  1. I agree that it does not take much to reach from 1 rank to another especially for lower elos.

  2. I see statements like this and as well as between higher ranks too.

  3. It's more so the wording is wrong. As there is still a separation from a hardstuck iron and a hardstuck silver. Same can be said between hardstuck bronze and hardstuck silver.

  4. If they were be exact same, then one shouldn't be stuck in silver and able to reach gold.

  5. A gold can very much solo a diamond, but that doesn't apply they are the same.

tiny delta
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I think that the idea being conveyed with statements like that is that the skill stratification between iron and silver is very low. Despite containing most of the playerbase within those ranks, a player in Silver is not significantly better than a player in Iron (maybe like I2, players in I4 are generally a decent bit worse)

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Now what this is rhetorically being used to mean will depend on context. I think the most optimistic way is: just a little bit of focused improvement, and an Iron player could reasonably expect to reach Silver within a season.

bitter ginkgo
tiny delta
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I just think that's simply incorrect

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Tangible perhaps, massive I don't think so

bitter ginkgo
tiny delta
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like we're just sort of hypothesizing back and forth

bitter ginkgo
static thicket
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The difference is so infinitesimally small but rather than accepting reality we lie to people to not make them feel bad about it and tell them that the difference is there and it’s massive

static thicket
tropic leaf
# tiny delta has anyone done this

yes I have. and it's pretty similar actually.
Like you've seen before, I like to grade "carry" potential based on how many champs you're worth in a game. Silver players seem to be worth about 1.5 iron 1 players on average, and 2 iron players on a good day.

This means that if more than one player ints on the silver player's team of a hypothetical game of 9 iron 1's and 1 silver, the silver player will be in a coinflip of a game.

glossy crest
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ooff, see i was silver once. (though now silver is sort of bronze and gold is sort of silver) and ive watched Irons play and imo there use to be a pretty big difference between silver and iron players. Iron players are noticeably worse.

When I was on gold, i played in bronze with some friends that were starting out (this is before Iron was a rank) so its the two rank gap you guys are speaking of and I pretty much clapped anyone I laned against as we tried out roles for my friends (if they were laning i would play jungle if they wanted to adc i played support) or id play a lane when got filled.

its hard to say bc this was a few years ago and the player base is different than it was during COVID when i would say lower elos were saturated with bad/newbie players bc people didnt have anything to do during lockdown

zealous coyote
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when i was playing ranked this split i saw a noticeable difference in skill between iron-low bronze vs silver players

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i think it was a quite large skill gap, i played support the entire way and the difference in adcs i had between those ranks was like night and day

glossy crest
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i think were thinking that mechanically silver and iron players are probably the same, but like their game sense is just way worse.

zealous coyote
glossy crest
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interesting, i havent been down there in a while is i honestly cant tell you from gameplay only from VODs XD

zealous coyote
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xD i just played ranked for victorious sona so i can remember the games i played quite well

reef jewel
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cook that fraud tiny

silent oasis
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It's weird cuz most ironic or bronze blame their set up.
I remember an iron says be can jungle better than a diamond 1 peak streamer because the streamer is a top lane main and has way better set up

static thicket
restive mantle
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Clearly there is a difference given there's tons of people hard stuck in both elos (i.e. didn't randomly make it up or down into the other)

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I feel like it's too easy for people playing competitive games to only look at things someone does in one game without considering metagame stuff like consistency or tendency to tilt that would also affect their overall rank

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Elo systems are fundamentally based on statistics across many games

glossy crest
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to the point about tilting, its hard to judge that from stats tbh. and honestly people usually with good mental and an iq higher than room temp tend to get out of that kind of elo in 2 or 3 seasons

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and tbh im still wrapping my head around people just being dumb? idk how to describe the feeling when youre trying to tell someone something and its just not clicking or something

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and im not a bad teacher lol i tutor so id like to think im a decent teacher at least but like sometimes it feels like im talking to a wall

static thicket
bitter ginkgo
restive mantle
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So it's like someone from the outside smurfing can play in both iron and silver games

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Or look at vods of them playing

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And see only a very small slice of the skill of everyone down there

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The differences can be as subtle as the mmr system can distinguish and that's probably more subtle than people thinking about the question would be able to tell given the amount of thought and effort they would put into figuring out the difference