champions that are like karma

[lean remnant]

Give me champions that are like karma

[timid ledge]

Nothing is quite like her but champions that would tick most boxes she does would be Jarvan IV, Janna, Morgana, Sona and Seraphine.

[scenic apex]

Jarvan?

Wtf do Jarvan and Karma have in common besides having a shield?

[timid ledge]

Think a bit more. If you were to look for a jungler that ticks most boxes that Karma ticks as a support, J4 is where you end up. Great early, dog scaling. Utility in teamfight (CC, flag vision, flag AoE as). You can build tank or damage same way Karma can go tank/damage. People tend to not realize how crazy the as flag buff is.

[ornate walrus]

J4 scaling isn't that bad

[timid ledge]

J4 is not seen as a scaling champion. Heavy tempo, dog scaling. You build AD but you have no reset, you're locked into full burst on squishies.

[ornate walrus]

he gets quite a bit of free AS and can justify itemizing some more along with his other stats. Champ isn't really all that burst reliant now

[timid ledge]

J4 with no burst = tank J4. Tank J4 is not good. I meant what I said and it's very very clear.

[ornate walrus]

does not have to be tank just because he doesn't go all-in on burst

Item pool isn't that pigeonholed anymore.

[timid ledge]

Not about item pool

It's about kit scaling

[ornate walrus]

Yea and his kit gives him quite a bit of free DPS from AS on E passive+active

[timid ledge]

That has nothing to do with scaling. J4 still has dog scaling no matter how you put it.

He ain't handling a strong duelist on sidelane post mid-game.

If you can't match strong side, you're not scaling into the late game.

[ornate walrus]

Never said he was godtier late game, he's more of a midgame champ (which is typical of most bruisers)

[timid ledge]

no J4 has an insane early game

lvl 2 gank is nasty if you know where to look

[ornate walrus]

he's not the only midgame champ with a strong level 2 gank in the jungle.

[timid ledge]

but we're talking about J4 specifically

the whole point is why J4 is similar to karma but in a different role

Incredible early, good teamfight, dog scaling

It's just normal for good early game when ahead to be impactful in the mid game

[wide delta]

before this gets completely derailed bc im struggling to see what J4 (early/mid jungle bruiser/tank AD) has to do with Karma (early/mid/late mid/support mage), Morgana (without the speed up) and Seraphine (more powerful aoe kit) are probably your best bets. Nami I would argue is pretty close as well but is less of a flex pick than the rest and is mainly a support pick.

As for this mess of a debate. I dont think you should be lv2ing on J4, you already scale like ass and there is no guarantee you will get anything off of a lv 1 solo laner and if you lv2 bot youre just trolling at that point. if youre against a jungler with half a brain, your top side will be gone and youll be down a level tempo and two camps by the time you hit lv 3. (i ONLY level 2 gank a mid duo and when the match up is something ik if i can blow the enemy mid flash early on my duo is good enough to press that advantage and win lane. this is not guaranteed in soloq)

Looking for a gank after a full clear of one side of the jungle while youre passing though mid is acceptable but im still failing to see a connection between Karma and J4, not even from a scaling perspective lol, Karma even as a support scales better into the late game than J4 and as a laner mage/hybrid tank has a completely different peel playstyle than J4.

[timid ledge]

J4 lvl 2 gank is guaranteed to burn their flash

When player are good, burning flash early is insane. You struggling to see why J4 and Karma have a lot of similarities is textbook why you shouldn't contribute to this topic.

[scenic apex]

Literally everyone is saying that what you said doesn't make any sense, neither of those champions share any similarity in play style or gameplan. Just because they have similar levels of power and pressure throughout each stage of the game doesn't mean that they play similarly at all

[timid ledge]

so because they have similarities doesn't mean they play similar, riddle me this

[scenic apex]

An enchanter mage doesn't play similarly to a bruiser diver at all, even if they're both early game champs or whatever

[timid ledge]

Still ticks most boxes, I never said they had the same kit

[wide delta]

Lol, "You struggling to see why J4 and Karma have a lot of similarities is textbook why you shouldn't contribute to this topic." Nice of you to explain why they're similar. I countered your bs "explanation" bc even that didn't make sense XD.

I don't need a diamond hard stuck thinking he's some sort of god bc he thinks an early game backline diving bruiser plays the same as a peeling mage support despite a bunch of people here trying to (politely might I add) ascertain why.

[lean remnant]

YAY KLOVE YOU

[timid ledge]

You do need it given your last reply. My IGN is right there. How is Masters hardstuck Diamond ?

[wide delta]

lol buddy hits masters with the new inflated elo in ranked and thinks his opinion is gosbel now XD

[timid ledge]

nah, this is just what it is. J4 ticks most boxes Karma does if you translate the role. It's not that complex.

[scenic apex]

It's an incredible stretch to be comparing an early game diver to an enchanter mage and saying they're similar in any capacity. From what we can assume by the initial request of asking for champions that are like Karma, they want a champion that's similar in abilities AND play style, not one or the other. Champions like Seraphine, Morgana, and Lux check those boxes moreso than any diver

[wide delta]

no no no, youre not masters, you simply would not understand this guys pure genius man. were not on the same spectrum as him

Great early: True Karma is good early and really suppressive with mantra abilites
Dog scaling: I mean I disagree, shes good almost every state of the game. Her damage early to mid and her utility late. You can say the same for J4 late if you ignore the fact that his ulility is literally hurtling himself and front lining compared with karma peeling her entire team with shield speed ups and tethers. theyre basically the same lmao
Utility in teamfight (CC, flag vision, flag AoE as): This guy isnt comparing the kit just the overall theory so idk, i mean if that is the case then I can make an argument that Riven is the same as Karma as well with what she offers in team fight cc shielding and utility. Riven has more dashes and can move around a teamfight better than J4.
You can build tank or damage same way Karma can go tank/damage. People tend to not realize how crazy the as flag buff is: He is basically saying Jarvan E offers the same utility as Karmas entire kit lol

Champions similar to Karma using this logic: J4, Diana, Riven, Annie (lol just realized Annie actually is quite similar lmao), Ekko, Galio, Lee Sin, Rammus

[dire onyx]

Similar to karma should be enchater

[bitter snow]

and prob not an ad jg

[wide delta]

i mean that was what i thought but im only emerald so i dont understand a diamond players logic

[timid ledge]

But you didn't, you're refuting mine. You never made an argument, you're just countering.

[timid ledge]

So J4 + Aery ends up being an enchanter. You can actually play that as a support.

See, if you open up your mind just a tiny bit, you end up seeing all these underlying synergies. You're just deadstuck into a metagame for which you don't even understand the basics. Karma is an enchanter, so all enchanters are similar. Boy this is going nowhere.

[ornate walrus]

Karma is more utility mage than enchanter tbqh

[ornate walrus]

a refutation is an argument....please learn more about critical thinking, logic, and reason.

[wide delta]

no no no i agree with you now, so you're telling me that I can just equip Aery on any melee champion with an ability that buffs ally with 25% AS, reduce 10% to 26% armor for 3 seconds, slows champions 15% to 35% for 2s then like i said champions like Diana, Riven, and Lee Sin all are similar to Karma

its simple once you look pass how the two champions are fundamentally different from their kits and playstyles but if you just boil it down to their potentials on paper as a support like damage buffs, attack speed buffs, slows, and shields then yeah Karma is a similar champion to J4 lol

no no no you have me completely sold on your argument

[fierce drift]

i wanna say seraphine!

[timid ledge]

you are being a bit dense. They told you to translate roles. J4 is quite similar to Karma in that regard, I have to agree with them

[wide delta]

yeah and then i said i agreed with them, if we just overlooked everything at hand and only analyzed a few key metrics then yes i agree

[timid ledge]

no need to overlook everything though

[wide delta]

how so?

[timid ledge]

they told you and I agree with them

[wide delta]

they said to disregard scaling and playstyle and kit

[timid ledge]

j4 doesn't scale well, is very agressive just like karma

both with a slow + CC

and some type of buffs that make a hyper scaling marksmen happy

[wide delta]

yeah, and then i said i agree, because if you look at it like that youre disregarding everything else that makes jarvan jarvan and if you boil it down to what their abilities can provide you then yes

theyre similar champions

[timid ledge]

by your statement then nothing would be similar since every champion is unique

which ya, if you go with that way then there's no point

[wide delta]

well no, seraphine, sona, and morgana are similar to karma

[dim plover]

lulu

[timid ledge]

Morgana has long range pick potential, Karma doesn't

it's already quite the difference

[wide delta]

that too, someone else said you wont get someone that is exactly like her, karmas kit is quite unieuq. but Tekaa said that his arguement is not grounded in playstyle or kits. its philosophy. to which i agree

[timid ledge]

Morgana can butter you up with aoe stuns too, karma doesn't

sona and seraphine are similar if you compare both, but karma has much more agressive damage in laning phase

[wide delta]

well yes, but if were looking at a cc, peel shielding, dmg and oppressive early game pressence morg and karma tick a few boxes. at least thats what i think

[timid ledge]

morg shield does nothing into physical damage

[wide delta]

i mean if you look at Tekaas arguement, theres nothing wrong. it was when he started telling me that i cant express dissent bc im not masters is when i just stopped really listening lol

[timid ledge]

too many layers of differences

[wide delta]

similar, its called similarities my guy, it offers similar properties in a team fight as karma. you trade CC for MS in this case

but you cant tell me Morgana compared to Karma is less similar than Jarvan compared with Karma

it also depends on what you can build, if you go Relias (i think thats how its spelled lol) then you have matra e on morg XD. my point is there are more similarities between morgana and Karma than J4 and Karma EVEN IF you translate roles.

I mean I disagreed with Tekaa, but the guy straight up just said "nope youre not high elo enough to have an opinion on my take"

[timid ledge]

They're in the a different spot

Morgana is very not similar to Karma, i would lean into J4 having more similarities to what Karma embodies. Early game champion with a lot of teamfight utility, which J4 is in my mind

[wide delta]

In the end if you just straight up disregard kit plystyle scaling etc and just look at what the base numbers provide you and your team? then sure theyre similar. My stance was you cant just disregard all that and just read what the abilities give you

[timid ledge]

not disregarding that, just look at what they provide.

j4 needs to get up close to provide CC, so does karma.

[wide delta]

well here youre disregarding how karma and j4 would play this type of early game are you not? youre telling me karma hard engages a pre 6 teamfight and jarvan can stand behind his backline and peel?

[timid ledge]

morgana can do it in melee range but has the flexibility to throw her Q from a safe distance too

j4 can peel defensively ya that's a thing

karma tank would end up similar

[wide delta]

in the same way karma can? spaming e or ms or slows while not frontlining? okay if you think so theres no point in continuing this discussion bc we have two very different veiw points on how k4 and karma should be played

[timid ledge]

iceborn/spirit i don,t think it's a different viewpoint moreso that I understand how they can be built similarly

[wide delta]

also you have to look at the crux of the question being asked, if a friend asked you to suggest a champion similar to Karma to play. would you dead ass suggest a whole different role and kit?

[timid ledge]

that's what Tekaa was referring

• support/jungle are very similar in terms of role, they're both impacting the map as a whole and are supposed to play for the team

[wide delta]

how the hell is karma impacting a map early game? even as a top/mid laner shes not as impactful early as j4. you know why? they have a completely different play style which we conveniently ignored

[timid ledge]

I didn't say karma, I said support

but their playstyle is similar, they make the most out of their early game

[wide delta]

ive played both j4 support and karma support, j4 plays nothing like karma support

[timid ledge]

i think they do funny

[wide delta]

and ive only played it as a fasting senna lane and when i wanted to troll and would run lee sin j4 bot with a duo and perma role and dive and not lane

[timid ledge]

so you wanted to troll okay that explain things have a good day

[wide delta]

even as fasting senna, ive played into karma before. its not the same not to mention karma offered way more utility to her team than i did.

[timid ledge]

int karma and troll j4 ya you lost my curiosity

[wide delta]

yeah bc when i played j4 as a support we perma tower dove, you cant play a traditional lane as j4 support. youd get crushed by any engage or out poked by any enchantress

thats why its troll, the pick itself as support is not good, which is why Tekaa compared it as a jungler for most of his arguement.

to which you then have to factor in playstyle but his point is you dont and just look at the very base ideas of how j4 is played lol.

LMAO i say that ive locked in J4 support and its so bad you only can lock it in as a troll lane to cheese to win and apparently that discredits everything ive said.

"But locking in J4 support and actually trying to play it as a support isnt troll", lol try locking in j4 support in your next ranked game and youre going to get reported lmao. that in itself is enough evidence that people dont think a melee tank brusier that is mainly played in the jungle is similar to a traditional peeling utility mage like karma but hey then again im only emerald so what do i know

[wide delta]

i main jungle and i main support, i like j4 dont get me wrong and ive play many a game of him, so this is speaking from experience idk whats got you so twisted up when i misspelt "into" as "int" lmao

so boil it down for tekaa when he gets off work and replies once a day bc hes got better shit to do than me XD: No i agree with you, once you disregard kit, playstyle, scaling, itemization, team composition, and just solely look at the base philosophy of both champions. They are similar.

[jolly kestrel]

closest answer to a mage/enchanter hybrid would be seraphine

[timid ledge]

what did I just read lmao

[ornate walrus]

It's actually in some ways better against physical damage from the standpoint that they can't strip the CC immunity because their damage is physical and not magic.

[ornate walrus]

A refutation is an argument intended to refute (i.e. demonstrate the incorrectness of) another argument.

[timid ledge]

I know what that's supposed to be, just you ain't doing that.

[ornate walrus]

Follow the quote train back to what I was responding too and maybe you'll understand what I was objecting to.

[wind dome]

@wide delta

@timid ledge is a tekka alt lmao

lmao this is fucking hilarious - these are all the same accounts he used on the pokemon server - @heatranunite @timid ledge etc

[wide delta]

oh lol you found this

yeah this was like my first conversation with that guy, you can actuall hear my brain melting trying to comprehend what was happening

[timid ledge]

???

[wind dome]

bro ill send u a link to another server real quick - u can see these two accounts doing the same shit lol

[wide delta]

naw its fine, ill trust you on this one

[cedar kelp]

this karma thread still going on

[wide delta]

no its not

[cedar kelp]

bad engagement is still engagement

[wind dome]

nah just tryna weed out all the tekaa alts and fakes

[cedar kelp]

ion even know who tekaa is i just find j4 as a karma alternative funny

[wide delta]

you might have missed this but this guy honey called out @ tekaa for pretending to be a GM player lol, they just found this thread and apparently the guy that supported him in this thread Ray is also the same person pretending to be tekaa

i mean Ray is here so feel free to defend or agree or whatever lol

doesnt make this less entertaining that it already is

[cedar kelp]

the reddit alt account strategy

[timid ledge]

not too sure what's going tbh lol

I spoke with that user like 8 months ago about an analytics project I was doing

[wide delta]

i mean i layed out what the other guy is accusing

[timid ledge]

Don't worry they've been going mental in my DMs

[wide delta]

lol regardless its still funny XD if its true, then wow, if its not then honeyfuchsia is on like a head hunting spree and that honestly is also funny

[wind dome]

pretty much they did the same shit in a pokemon server

[timid ledge]

you know I was looking for data in that pokemon server and I got it

[wind dome]

mostly a big pokemon nerd but used to play lol - ray and his alts caused so much shit in all 3 major pokemon servers - so its like after getting called out on those servers and seeing it happen on the lol servers its like gotta call out for the lolz

[timid ledge]

I've got no alts bruh

[jolly kestrel]

@wind dome out of curiousity is this real tekaa person also someone whos in their late 30s and a teacher or does that person fake everything about their personality.

[wind dome]

u can assume like everythings fake

the same heatranunite/tekka account posted that they also consistently place top 8 at in person regional events for pokemon on another server - so like what this dude is a masters elo while also travelling the country to go to and top pokemon tournaments while also doing this on a teacher salary lol

[cunning kite]

Probably Seraphine. Does dmg, has cc but also a shield