#Is this true ?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

quasi falcon
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Has any game got around the problem with "lack of empathy for other specializations"?

Like in League of Legends, a Mage player will say all Assassins are Griefing. If a player hit a high rank on ladder playing only Mage, that player begins to believe that their method is the only method.

-Mages need to farm 8-10 CS per minute, they scale with Income.

-Assassins tend to focus on denial, their job is to make it so enemies do not scale, they want 6-8 CS per minute early, and then late their goal is to deny the enemy carries causing them to lose 3-4 CS per minute.

-Then Healers have kits that have high utility and do not need gold to function. Their job is to be present at fights .

I've been doing this sort of survey/experiment where I ask a bunch of high ranked players for coaching. I've yet to find anyone who acknowledges another playstyle as valid. Mages will say Healers are "griefing", Healers will say Assassins are "Griefing"

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It is strange to see a coach tell a Katarina to "CS well and don't die" and tell the Katarina to "crash wave 3" .

It is a Katarina ?? She can't do that. She plays the game differently than an Ahri Ori Viktor

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Assassins want to get what CS they can until their breakpoint then go for an all-in for a long lane. Katarina at 7CS/min is good.

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(I should say "supports" not "healers" like some Mid champs don't have heavy scalings, and act more like a low income supportive roam around the map and pressure/deny)

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Assume Emerald/Diamond rank, where the general fundamentals are known

wooden coyote
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But it's case by case, while most times Katarina won't shove but maybe in that instance she was able to

signal sail
# quasi falcon It is strange to see a coach tell a Katarina to "CS well and don't die" and tell...

As Nyangi said, they could be wrong as no one can master the concept of League of Legends regardless of how good you are.

However, since you are just explaining your experiences of what you've seen, most coaches or people in general explain their knowledge of the game and try to implement their knowledge into X person. You're right that Katarina isnt much of a CSer and prioritizes more on snowballing by getting kills, but in this case, the coach explaining to a person playing Katarina might say "CS well and don't die" or "crash wave 3" is because of what their knowledge says is best for the scenario.

Its not necessarily that people dont have lack of knowledge about other Champion classes as many players in Emerald/Diamond rank understand the concepts of each classes. Again its more so their knowledge, so maybe they see something that seems "good" for them but the person playing doesn't.

Its essentially the same concept of people complaining about draft picking. For example, Naut is picked on the enemy team and then I pick Yuumi support. It does seem troll because I know that playing Yuumi against Naut is essentially lane lost, but I see my team hovering champions that synergizes with Yuumi well in late game. Not only that, if played correctly, Yuumi does have agency in lane against Naut because of the amount of poke she has on top of ADC. So Naut can essentially never go in unless my ADC messes up. But my ADC doesnt see that and what does that lead? Flaming and running it down.

quasi falcon
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I am Emerald Diamond / trying to get coaching from someone Masters +

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But since I do not play conventional characters (It appears just Mages Mid with high CS per Minute) it is hard to find a coach.

Most coaches seem to be Ahri, Orianna, Viktor with high CS and low deaths.
It is rare to find an Assassin Coach (for low range assassins that can't reliably farm and need breakpoints: Fizz, Ekko, Katarina, etc)
And it is even rarer to find a coach for "non-scaling Mages" (Zoe, anything early game that has to impact the map and doesn't scale with high CS)

signal sail
# quasi falcon But since I do not play conventional characters (It appears just Mages Mid with ...

The issue with finding coach is that you need a dedicated coach to help you throughout your journey and not just one day or one hour or whatever long. Some people can grasp the ideas from one session and thats great, but majority require help throughout the journey. Once the person gets the hang of it, then that is when the player starts doing it solo and go from there.

For me, if I want a coach, it would be mainly from someone that I know such as my friend that is in Masters/GM or I watch videos to get a grasp of what to do with my champion. I understand that not everyone has someone who they can reach out who is in high elo or cant find a video that helps, which is why people pay for coaching.

But if you really want a coach, I advise you to try to search out for the already known coaches that are highly helpful even if they dont play the champs you play. Since they are highly trusted by the community, they have knowledge that you might not have and it can help you with your gameplay. LS is a great example of this and has a dedicated Discord server for coaching if you wanted that.

Sorry if that didnt answer much, but this is the best response I have for this.

quasi falcon
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Yeah am searching for some coach to learn the game, especially consistency and planning in game. But also with a similar low CS and high death playstyle. Like the 9CS/min Viktor isn't going to be helpful

wooden coyote
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The best thing you can do is watch high elo replays and try to copy what they do

signal sail
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Then yeah LS is a good start for where you are at. Im not sure about other good coaches but maybe starting off there may help guide you into a coach that has a similiar playstyle like you

wooden coyote
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Trying to find a coach that is willing to put that much time into you is going to be hard with that specification of playstyle

quasi falcon
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I just have low CS and high deaths and can't find anyone else in Emerald+ with this. I was the only person in Diamond with this, hit "rank 2 with this playstyle for people doing this playstyle"

wooden coyote
quasi falcon
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I play champs that don't need gold, and tend to try to play a denial game where I pressure and deny CS in other lanes.

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I pref Mid over Support because often with Support you sometimes get lanes where you can't abandon lane Bard your ADC

wooden coyote
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Second, if you are struggling to find someone is who using "your" playstyle to climb, maybe it's an issue of your playstyle being too different from high elo players thinks they can climb with

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Generally, if you are low elo anyways. You should be working on your fundamentals then anything

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If you need someone to teach the fundamentals of your "playstyle" it's kind of useless, since you should be prioritizing your fundamentals

quasi falcon
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I'm Emerald IV-I on playing all champs randomly.
If I play only Zoe I'm around Diamond up to d2 some peaked before

signal sail
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Wait im confused, what is your main goal?

To get better overall as a player or to hit X rank

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Because you essentially answered your own question if your goal is to hit Diamond again or X rank

quasi falcon
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I think to get better overall as a player and learn my styles better such

signal sail
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Ahh I see

quasi falcon
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I stopped onetricking Zoe because I learned in 5-vs-5 setting you just get your main banned anyways

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But even my Zoe wasn't "normal" and most don't consider her a normal champion

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Zoe isn't a scaling Mage, she needs to get things done with her early base stats.

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Like if you "CS well and don't die" on Zoe, and go for 9CS/min but don't impact map with your lvl 1 wave clear and roams then you screwed up

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I'd argument Zoe operates on different fundamentals than other Mages. (I guess Ahri and Leblanc are kinda similar)

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Ahri has high base stats also and falls off rather hard late also kinda. But Zoe legit two shots casters lvl 1

signal sail
# quasi falcon I stopped onetricking Zoe because I learned in 5-vs-5 setting you just get your ...

Mhmm, that is very true. Im assuming when you are talking about a 5v5, you mean in a tournament setting where everyone knows what each player plays and drafts accordingly. The chances of you getting your main is very slim in tournaments and if you do get it, its mainly because you are forced to play in a bad matchup/overall game. This is coming from a person who had tournament experience before and had my main characters banned.

But yeah, essentially the only way to figure out a good coach for you is to explore more options more since you dont have a "similar" playstyle than others.

quasi falcon
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Out of curiosity, why are almost all Mid coaches for scaling mages?
(Viktor, Syndra, Orianna, etc)

I believe Zoe's fundamentals operate differently, for example.
Like it is true that if you "scale up and aim for 9CS/min" on Zoe that you are doing something wrong because she falls off hard after lvl 13.

Also Zoe has much higher base stats and better early waveclear. As Zoe your goal is to use your waveclear to get pushes and create pressure in other lanes . Like you need to force skirmishes (while most Viktor coaches would tell you not to )

In fact, on Zoe sometimes it is better to concede an entire wave and a half because you aren't a heavy scaler.

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It seems from searching around for coaches.
Most are for: Scaling Mage , then for Assassin, then for "Early Game Mage" ?

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I dunno what the term is for like a Zoe, Ahri, Leblanc ?

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They aren't exactly burst Mages either. Burst I imagine Annie, Veigar, Lux

uncut rivet
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Control mages are consistent and safe ways to play the game. there's little risk to these champions.

Mages that are a bit on the aggressive/bully side or pseudo-assassiny like zoe, neeko, ahri and brand have a lot more risk to them. anyone can "scale" given gold income.

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That's not to say those champions fall off in a traditional sense since mages inherently get stronger just due to how ap works. their burst is still deadly.

quasi falcon
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The trade off with scaling control mages is that you won't have high pressure or priority early. If your Top goes 0/2/0 or if they want grubs and you are versus a Zoe as Viktor

I prefer stuff like Zoe or Ahri because so much more value at Grubs and skirmishes. I'm in Emerald/ Diamond. I'm not going to shift to scalers because it just feels helpless until one item and some level spike.

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From what I've experienced, I would say 8 in 10 games something happens pre6 that determines the outcome

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A failed 3v3 at grubs, or a Melee vs Melee Top snowballing out of control. Or a weird Jungle invade.

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--
I mean also, I'm playing Mid and they picked Talon, so I counterpicked with Kled.
Sometimes I don't even play traditional mage...

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We also had 2 AP showing already with Brand JG. So I go Kled

dense oak
quasi falcon
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Is there any place you would recommend to learn the game or find coach ?
Youtube High ELO either is really clickbait (PekinWoof "I cannot believe Mid Leona is OP" but when I try Mid Leona it is troll) etc

And Challenger Replays often don't have the characters I play. The best is like MidBeast/Baus/Drututt ?

gleaming iris
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Not every coach is going to put out only educational content 100% of the time because it simply gets less engagement, despite being a much more thoughtful and informative piece of content. If you cannot differentiate between revenue cash grab Leona mid gameplay and thoughtful analysis and explanatory piece on game state and midgame macro, then that is a significantly bigger problem to you than trying to climb in elo.

quartz goblet
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@quasi falcon What is the matchup. Both midlaners and junglers?

quartz goblet
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All champions scale with high cs. Zoe scales well, but she also requires high skill to pilot late game.

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Also stop building support item when you are midlane on briar it is troll ever since they nerfed it a few patches ago.

quasi falcon
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I build it after Cull

quartz goblet
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Briar fits perfectly with typical assassin coaching and Zoe fits with mage coaching. Shok does both very well but specializes extremely well into mages since he is the best orianna in the world.

quasi falcon
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I don't play Brair like a traditional assassin. She's more a support because she can't lane lvl 1-2

quartz goblet
quasi falcon
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Any melee kills her she has ADC base stats. Any ranged that has a reset kills her . So I often proxy Mid

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In my experience she scales very fast and well into mid game

quartz goblet
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Adcs don't have 30 base armor. She has good stats. She is extremely strong early and good mid then falls off late

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The reason you feel useless is because you are destryoing your economy buying support item in midgame -lategame where gold generation through minions is the highest

quasi falcon
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I only feel useless lvl 1

quartz goblet
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Longsword 3 pots is also worse sustain than dshield on a melee champ and you are also buying cull into a lane you have to punish (kass)

quasi falcon
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At lvl 4 I can play.

quartz goblet
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This isn't an issue with champ specific coaching you just don't know the midlane macro which can be learnt easily

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Not that many champions in this game don't play towards their lanes macro. Every midlaner has to follow their basic fundamentals like a melee vs ranged matchup with few exceptions. Briar mid functions as an assassin so finding assassin coaching is the best way to learn on her. Zoe functions as a mage so mage coaching functions on her. Shok does both very well but focuses more on mages + ranged champs https://www.youtube.com/@ShokLeague

YouTube
Shok

Hi I'm Shok, Challenger Mid since Season 6. Played OPL/LCO from 2017 to 2021. Multi rank 1 challenger. Peak 1357LP OCE and 1064LP NA.

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Also I don't understand why you are buying support item on Zoe a champ that requires gold to do what she wants to do

dense oak
quick agate
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alois