Most Controversial Hot Takes

[limber veldt]

i played smolder into garen level 2, i auto'ed him 3 times, did a q and a w, and his Q did more dmg then all that of mine, to then regen it all back with his passive

[dawn plume]

"And even if you do flash my movespeed is too much."

[limber veldt]

i was like: guess i aint fighting this guy any time soon

[dawn plume]

I once full combo'd this Garen as Riven im talking full animation cancel QW

He presses Q once and he wins the trade

No level diff btw

[limber veldt]

it kinda feels like a malzahar flash ulting you, but now you have the illusion you can do something

since ur not supressed and all xD

[dawn plume]

Ah yes the Malzahar flash R how could I forget about that

Thank god malzahar fucking sucks because I'd have some serious beef with that champion if he didn't

[limber veldt]

but getting a qss for malz is worth, getting a qssfor garen q is a kekw

[dawn plume]

"Nice hours you put into that champion. Unfortunately,

Flash R"

[limber veldt]

garen also sucks, but feels more unfair because mobility

[dawn plume]

You put like 100 hours on like Katarina or Riven or some shit and this absolute cuck just presses R on you and devalues every bit of skill you learned while typing "gg ez" and all you can feel is legitimately disappointed

If Malzahar wasn't complete fodder I'd actually be going insane

Thank god that champ sucks everywhere besides low elo and even being low elo I can deal with that purple simp for a game

[limber veldt]

i started playing when the guy was meta in support and jungle, im used to the homie clicking on me

at least youcan ( for now ) qss the ult, so 1300 gold and he is not really a champ anymore

[dawn plume]

The amount of times I've pulled off some fire tech or outplay and I just instantly shut off because he clicks R is actually criminal

If it wasn't for QSS I'd get myself checked into an asylum

[limber veldt]

i just get enough mr to tank it all and walk through it and kill them, do that once and they never ult you again xD

[dawn plume]

He does that shit like a million times in a match just to lose anyway because he offers nothing else

He just ults the carry to be a complete pissant and hopes the team can actually follow up and then he goes back to hiding

[limber veldt]

xD yeap or gets insta cc'ed off and dies which is also hilarious

[opaque grove]

She got a gigantic buff to Q and a decent one to R1 as well (20% more AD -> 25% more AD). Like idk who said that they were nerfing her late but buffing her early with the Q change because realistically, she will easily have enough bonus AD that the Q change is just a straight up buff and not insignificant one at all points of the game.

Mordekaiser's been busted for years, and you can easily tell because almost all champs have their win rate in late game gets pulled back towards 50% because of late game is usually won or lost off one fight or pick, but not morde, his WR as a function of game length just keeps going up (like 54%+ at 40 mins+), Champ is an omega busted stat stick and can also force a 1v1 that he wins against 95% of the roster later on; meaning he can basically guarantee that he trades up in a late game fight).

Yea, this is why, imo, juggernauts can't be allowed to have free % pen or %hp dmg, because they're supposed to be scary to ranged champs despite lacking mobility; it's why the have the best defensive steroids in the game. But other melee's can't even interact if they also have free anti-tank mechanics.

[dawn plume]

Removing the QSS from ult was such an awful change

There is literally no counterplay to Morde just ulting a squishy/carry all game anymore other than hoping he doesn't manage to proc passive

Even if he doesn't the carry is now just out of the fight

With no feasible counterplay other than "try to survive" while your whole team crumbles

[opaque grove]

Yea, I think it'd be ok if he wasn't so goddamn strong as a stat stick champ.

Like I've been 3 items on yasuo v. 2 item ish morde, I get the jump on him with Q3+ult (so immediate access to the free % bonus arpen too, and even if I dodge almost everything I still sometimes lose this with a lifesteal item in my build too). Just unreal that he's that strong at 2 items.

[lone quiver]

Certain champs can escape Mordekaiser ult iirc

Olaf is one, idr any others atm

[opaque grove]

he might actually be the only one. I wonder if cleanse actually works?

[lone quiver]

I dont think so but don't quote me pls

[wispy ingot]

cleanse doesn't work on his ult iirc

[lone quiver]

Didnt think so yeah. Gangplank used to be able to escape just by eating his orange but they patched it some seasons ago iirc

[wispy ingot]

i think ornn can escape it with his breath or wtv ability it is

[lone quiver]

Hmmm i actually wanna see that tested now

[wispy ingot]

and i think illaoi can cancel it with her own ult as well

[limber veldt]

cleanse doesnt work on suppression, it wont work on ww or malz r either for example, mord r is a supporession that is just immune to qss aswell

[opaque grove]

Ahh kinda figured

[limber veldt]

on that note only spellshields and displacemeent immunity stop him from using it ( think sivir E, sion R, malz passive )

imo the old mord R was way cooler of an ability in general, 😂 this one is just kekw

[fast atlas]

No champ can escape Morde's ult once inside

[lone quiver]

Hmm well a couple used to be able

But mayb not anymore

[fast atlas]

Not anymore

[rugged depot]

Akshan is P diddy in disguise

He swings it like diddy does

[inner orchid]

playing support is actually hard!

[rugged depot]

💀

[meager lagoon]

I don't think that's actually a hot take... I've never heard anyone say the inverse, like the support pretty much determines how bot lane goes with them having the most agency. A bad ADC can be covered by a good support, but there is no winning a game with a bad support.

[inner orchid]

i always hear people say that support is the easiest role to play

[vivid sinew]

support isn't hard until you reach gm

high skill ceiling low skill floor

[inner orchid]

valid point, how do i become gm

[opaque grove]

"git gud"

[meager lagoon]

No, support is the easiest to CLIMB WITH because you have the most agency in the game, you don't need to farm so you are free to roam and make plays and if anyone gets even slightly fed you make it possible for them to snowball that into an easy win by playing around them. There is a difference between something being easy to climb with, meaning you'll get a positive conversion of skill to LP and something being easy to play.

[inner orchid]

the statement is that support is an easy role to play, not an easy lp gaining role

[opaque grove]

lower MMRs this is somewhat true because nobody knows wtf to really do with their lead and so as support, your ability to impact their performance is....highly variable. But as you go up the ladder, support becomes more and more effective as players understanding of how to leverage leads gets better.

[dawn plume]

You're talking about agency, not difficulty. They are important but it's also not hard to be a serviceable support

It is the easiest role microwise and up until the mid-higher elos, macrowise. In lower elos a support can be big just by warding and helping adc survive lane. You don't really see supports make big macro plays until like plat/dia+

Every role is hard in its own way but if we compare support to the likes of basically every other role, it is not incorrect to say it is the easiest. Certainly not "easy", but there is always an "easiest"

Jungle is the hardest for obvious reasons, top lane has to deal with some of the worst matchups of all time, ADC requires strong mechanics and mid laners are jungle but much easier.

• the fact that every other role has to farm, and you don't

The barrier to entry and "effectiveness" for support is significantly lower than every other role while still having a decent bit of skill expression.

[opaque grove]

I'd summarize what support takes as follows:
-Understanding how to 2v2 skirmish
-Knowing how to macro

[dawn plume]

Anyone can play Soraka and hang back just enchanting their adc and putting down a ward every once in a while

[opaque grove]

Like that is about 95% of what you need to be effective on a support are those 2 things.

[dawn plume]

And even then supports can get through with abysmal macro for the lower ranks

Engage supports just go in whenever the hell they want and it works, enchanters can just sit in the back and spam abilities and it works, m*ge supports (☠️) can just spam poke and steal your wave and it works

The hardest part about support if you're not at least diamond is not reporting your adc

[mild verge]

Support is just mostly the most forgiving role in the game. Most champs that are played on support are made around that. Most have in and out abilities, crazy crowd control and good damage. In case they lack one of those they have a broken support ability(example Thrash with his W) . And even if they lack one of those they will be better in the other category, yes Leona doesn't do much dmg but has a lot of cc to compensate for that. The fact that role is VERY IMPACTFUL, makes it hard, but the way its played, champs played on it and how forgiving it is makes it the easiest role of the 5

[rocky perch]

mundo is overtuned rn or rather health stacking tanks in general

[dawn plume]

People come in here just saying ice cold takes

[lone quiver]

Heres a spicy hot take

League of legends is a hard game

[fast atlas]

C'mon, lets not tell lies now

[somber perch]

heartsteel nerf will hit him in wr

[vivid sinew]

He's announced as buff next patch tho

[oak nest]

Hot Take: Riot intentionally removed hextech chest and bringing them back is a publicity stunt. It’s a marketing technique used to gain attention to a wider audience, bringing a shock value to the community. But in return, they “fix” the issue that they created, and act as the “hero” to gain trust and praises from their community, now that they have your attention.

Bringing back hextech chest and add a bit more changes to the next patch will feel more meaningful to those that grieved for the removal of the hextech chest. It’s their way to play with your emotions, so that you are continued to be hooked up on the game.

[severe matrix]

Shitting on your table and then cleaning it expecting praise… classic

But I think its different here. What they did was limit test with how much they can take without giving back. It happened with the blue essence too but that was fixed faster

They still nerfed skin shard rerolls and with the backlash, people do see through it and want to see them fulfil promises before gaining some trust in riot again.

Not a hot take btw I don’t think anyone with a brain is praising riot

[fast atlas]

League of Legends

[lone quiver]

Daaang so real

[worthy sparrow]

no they genuinely thought they could remove them with minimal real backlash. like the ahri skin had a lot of vocal backlash, but pretty much nobody did anything real (banning ahri does exactly nothing). with the removal of hextech chests i guarantee they had a noticable drop in player count off it, which is the only reason they put them back.

[waxen latch]

vote https://chng.it/GbMKnC7mKP this is my hot take

[opaque grove]

probably not only player count dip, but I imagine a skin sales dip too.

(Which made them go "Oh shit! Our revenue!")

[dawn plume]

This will do absolutely nothing

[waxen latch]

with that mentality it wont. he only looks @ league for profit we have to do something... its worth a try imo.

[opaque grove]

You know, the CEO here has the misfortune of being the 'man in the middle' between riot and it's players; and riot game's stakeholds (Tencent et al). His job security is a function of how satisfied the latter group is, and if they're not happy, it's his job to try and fix that. But what do you when they want more ROI but the game isn't likely to generate that? At least now he point at this episode as evidence for the idea that player satisfaction is important to their player retention and revenue.

[waxen latch]

@opaque grove the CEO has a lot of power on what actually gets through and into the game. i understand the whole Return on investment but when you get a skin they barely worked on and put a price tag of 250$ on it, you are basically saying that we dont care about you guys (the players) but we want money. it would have been completely different if they ACTUALLY put a lot of effort in the skin and its on another level compare to other skins and WORKED for that investment instead of just looking at league and saying "how do we get money, lets put expensive skins out." they need to think differently for example "lets make a super cool skin that might take time but we will put a expensive price tag on it to compensate and so we can expand"... LEAGUE OF LEGENDS isnt a bussines to make as much money as possible with. If you really want money make a BANK or something, Dont become the CEO of a game... its a GAME, where you and the players work together to give the players a good experience and you get an investment back. not putting skins out there that you barely work on so RIOT can get money, the money part is a thing for them to expand and i get that. BUT you HAVE to put EFFORT into the game and not abuse the player because they have a LOVE for League of legends.

[opaque grove]

"LEAGUE OF LEGENDS isnt a bussines to make as much money as possible with" Riot games absolutely is a profit seeking entity, make no mistake, and the CEO is in charge of getting results in whatever way works. Putting in work means spending money, which makes have a good ROI ratio harder, even if it does sell a bit better for it.

This is a case of profit motive is in direct conflict with player preferences (i.e. a case where the company is incentivized to engage in anti-consumer practices).

[rocky perch]

Mundo is genuinely vile this patch

[cyan prawn]

mundo needs more buffs

[rocky perch]

true that is a hot take

[lament saffron]

ranged top is a genuinely more difficult experience than standard bruiser/tank toplane to carry games with

the only reason the majority of players wont agree with that concept is bc they dont understand how and when to punish mistakes and to what extent

[vivid sinew]

people doesn't hate ranged top because it's strong or hard/easy, it's mostly because how toxic it is

[cyan prawn]

haha funny

[fallen dock]

As an extension of what the other guy said, not only is it toxic but it's also really fucking annoying, do you realize how annoying it is to play into Teemo and get blinded every time you try to walk up for cannon? What about when you try to engage on Vayne and she just knocks you back and deals 10% max health true damage in three autos? Sure it might be a bit more difficult to pilot these champions than say Garen or Darius, but playing into them is very very annoying for any melee champ

[dawn plume]

Nobody said ranged top is hard its just annoying as fuck and toxic lol

The majority of top laners struggle into ranged matchups so you're forced to sack the wave under tower for 20 minutes trying to fish for punishes

It is an incredibly boring experience for the melee top laner and it all culminates to... the ranged top laner falling off anyway. (Unless you're Vayne but Vayne requires hands)

[turbid fractal]

mundo didint need a buff

[grand gate]

Arena and other rotating game modes should always be available for customs

[rugged depot]

they should add another rank between eme-master either before plat or after dia

[cyan prawn]

they should add wood below iron :^)

[lone quiver]

true

[rugged depot]

nah if you are already that low and cant get out, you should take the hint

[turbid fractal]

its not that hard

You just have to learn the game really

the people in that elo are so out of it you can quite literally split to win

[rugged depot]

ye thats what i said, either learn the game properly or quit

[turbid fractal]

plus why would anyone want wood bro that just sounds like canser

[rugged depot]

lower ranks doesnt matter its just the higher plat/eme thats inflated

[turbid fractal]

Emerald and plat players are so fking elo inflated holy

we need to get rid of emerald it just added another stage of the canser

[rugged depot]

yes its a problem there still dont know how i got out of eme dia in the first place, but when i smurfed on my second holy those people are on something

[fiery compass]

kekw so all of these players are put into plat instead of being split among 2 elos

[cyan prawn]

for the memes what else

[turbid fractal]

riot doesnt like memes they like money

[cyan prawn]

wood border = $

[tiny hull]

Jungle is a fraudulent role. As a beginner, everyone makes jungle appear to be chess in comparison to laners playing checkers. But when you truly play the role and see the players you're up against, you realize that you're just playing tic-tac-toe. A role predominantly focusing on the macro aspect of the game yet full of players who can't read the map for shit. For example, how often do you see junglers trying to do an objective without either lane prio? People will say that support is the most elo inflated role, but I without a doubt know that the title goes to jungle--not because of the role but because of the players.

[opaque grove]

Junglers starting objectives without lanes w/ prio is them intentionally gambling, hoping to get away with stealing it off the map while the enemy isn't watching for that. Usually they're doing that because their window to take it safely closed without their laners ever obtaining prio to support them doing it. Jungle is as dependent on laners as a ADC bot lane is on their support to be successful in the early game (if not moreso).

[grand gate]

its for kadeem

[remote spoke]

i want plastic

[fast atlas]

Paper IV

[worn musk]

We need more people like you to make junglers feel like they are not the problem

[tiny hull]

lol wdym

[worn musk]

Reading from the perspective of a player whos played all the roles for a aplit if i had read this I wouldve been under the impression that since my role is so easily carried that makes everyone else bad

The common ideas of a support player in my experience

[raven sluice]

There should be a random chance every game that if both toplaners are proxying past their enemy tier 1 turret, they both get teleported out of the game into a 1v1 with no warning

There needs to be more AD carries that can run Nashor's into full AP if their team has too much physical damage

[rocky perch]

leblanc is far more braindead than her players make her out to be

[dawn plume]

Laning with Leblanc is braindead, winning with her is a different story

[rocky perch]

both she rly isnt that deep

tired of the downplay :/

[dawn plume]

Leblanc struggles to actually finish games with her leads

Shes a piss brain drool laner but they end up losing the game anyway even when fed

[rocky perch]

thats not exclusive to her and isnt a reason she isnt still brain off

[tiny hull]

nah im a top laner; i just like supp for norms cause it's casual

[tiny hull]

I haven't played much of the other roles in ranked, but jg is without a doubt the easiest role for me to play filled. Like once you know how jg works, it's seriously incredibly easy.

[worn musk]

I guess? But when you play against a good jungler its not that simple anymore

[tiny hull]

sure but most junglers are not good junglers

[worn musk]

Brotha what? A majority of the players that main a role arent good at it?

[tiny hull]

yes

[tiny hull]

let me put it this way, I think that on average it would take a solo laner less work to reach a jg main's rank than vice versa

[worn musk]

So junglers have to o more work.

[tiny hull]

To reach a solo laner's rank? yes

[worn musk]

So jungle is harder.

[tiny hull]

How could you possibly reach that conclusion

[worn musk]

A solo laner starting from iron, and a jungle that peaks what like gold, you just said the solo laner would have an easier time acheiving gold than the jugle did.

[tiny hull]

I'm saying that if you take a player who got to gold playing solo lane only, it would take them less work to reach gold jg than if you take a player who got to gold playing jg only and have them get to gold solo lane.

[worn musk]

The solo laner switching to jungle gets lost in silver if they dont learn effectively and the jungle going top most likely reaches gold in top lane within 7ish hours of the time it took them to get gold in jungle

[tiny hull]

lol I completely disagree

jungle is so repetitive; it's basically a flowchart in lower elos

like I recall there being plenty of plat junglers who cant even clear before scuttle spawns

[worn musk]

Then they arent good at the champ/jungle as a role or they cleared like a complete idiot, which happens everywhere but funamentally top lane is not only easier but takes less time to learn.

[tiny hull]

nah top requires way more matchup knowledge than jg

[worn musk]

No it doesnt

You always see your laner the gold gap is easier to manage

[tiny hull]

😂

alright disagreeing with one of the most well known facts is crazy

[worn musk]

You disagree that Jungle isnt either #1 hardest laner or #2. Claiming its elo inflated.

[tiny hull]

huh?

[worn musk]

Brotha do you even remember your original claim? Also comparing any lane in low elo is like tossing up a coin because of constant inconsistencies and learning tendancies and how to manage the game. If you take High Emerald-Diamond+ Jungle is not a lane where its just one is objectively better unless you run into the case of like a newbie jungle or something of those lines.

[remote spoke]

I'm a bronze JNG main coming from mid

JNG is like 5x harder lmao

Imo

[raven sluice]

Mid is way easier than Jng to get away with doing absolutely nothing

[remote spoke]

Easiest role imo

[worn musk]

Mid is not the easiest role

[remote spoke]

I said imo

I'm bronze so my opinion is prob wrong lmao

[worn musk]

I mean you learn as you keep playing

[remote spoke]

[lone quiver]

Fiora is a very mash friendly champion

kinda the opposite of Camille and Riven

[raven sluice]

Do you mean like uncoordinated mashing?

[lone quiver]

Yes

W E and W are all very mashable against certain champs at least

Ofc some can counter that

[remote spoke]

Ok

[lone quiver]

Ok

[remote spoke]

[tiny hull]

Yes my original claim is that the role is elo inflated. Idk how to explain it but the majority of ppl who play that role just aren't real imo.

[raven sluice]

they did make jungling easier to afk farm on

[tiny hull]

That as well but like. I've been filled JG and filled mid before. Mid is without a doubt harder. You don't have to worry about trading patterns or anything like that in jg;

[serene depot]

tanks are weak and need to be buffed

[remote spoke]

Buff rhaast nerf blue kayn

Give rhaast blue Kayns q buff

[worn musk]

Jungle is harder to master and be useful than midlane, making it the harder lane.

[raven sluice]

Midlane would be useless if they couldnt permaroam bot

[worn musk]

That just isnt true at all

[raven sluice]

As you proceed to not explain why

[worn musk]

Mid lane is a nuetral lane that when in the lead can determin what side gets both topside and botside objectives, the leaing mid laner has invade prio for the leading teams jungle to take extra camps, roaming for all river and jungle side fights without entering a different lane

[raven sluice]

Yeah they can do that if your JG knows what theyre doing, they botlane can stop farming, and the toplaner doesnt randomly proxy

[worn musk]

A majority of top lane champs dont just choose to proxy at minute 20 at that time the leading laner is already decided. Bot side is also determined at that time. And early river fights are usually evenly matched if the respective lane uses their eyes. Mid lane is not just roam bot = success

[wispy ingot]

actual baloney

[raven sluice]

How are you gonna plan for minute 20 when a bunch of games are surrendered before that time even comes

Youre not gonna win mid in your lane if you have the worse jg

[worn musk]

inning mid lane has nothing to do with jungle you freak

[raven sluice]

youre going to ignore the fact that midlane is right in the middle of the map and is the most convenient for jungle to gank

[worn musk]

Its not, easiest lane to cover with vision. top is the esiest gank lane

[raven sluice]

I said convenient

please read

[ebon needle]

it's annoying that some champ specficially get balanced around low elo pushing it validity out of higher ranks where people invested lots of time to master it

[raven sluice]

Yi shouldnt be low elo champ

[worn musk]

Brotha, doing something thats conveneint is also maost likely easy.

[raven sluice]

??? if it was then they would be the same word but theyre not

[worn musk]

Interchangable words in the given situation smartass

[dawn plume]

Yi isn't as low elo skewed anymore

His winrate looking pretty stable in low and higher elos

Sub 50 but thats just yi shit

[lone quiver]

Master Yi sucks

[halcyon shard]

Nautilus is the worst thing to ever happen to the bot lane. And if you reference anything like censor meta or tahm kench, naut is still bot lane. They aren’t.

If you give up games at the one minute mark you legitimately need to just uninstall and go do something in your life you enjoy. Leave us out of your misery.

Also would likely extend this to people giving up before the first inhib is dead and play to prove themselves right

Hottest take of them all, practically all support mains suck at the game. Far more than other roles. Only role that comes close is jungle and it’s not that close.

[raven sluice]

I would need you to elaborate on why Naut is the worst thing to happen to bot lane to know what you mean

[raven sluice]

I would say Support has the least skill to impact ratio in the game, lots of supp champs are skill agnostic

[cyan prawn]

yet it has the highest impact other than jungle zzz

[haughty trellis]

delete darius (and yuumi)

[lone quiver]

Support needs to provide their team with the vision they need to get shit done so the role is quite important

[opaque grove]

Naut is still bot lane because it's "naut to bad"

[lone quiver]

Also supports are supposed to support the entire team, not just the adc

They just lane with the adc

[raven sluice]

literally easy to do

[lone quiver]

[raven sluice]

there are literal pngs that say where to ward, done

[worn musk]

"They need to get shit done" Wow, so everyother role in the game?

[raven sluice]

Hardest things about support is not inting and playing with the fed members, which all other roles do as well

Most they do alone is fight over a control ward

[worn musk]

Support is more than that 100%

[raven sluice]

As you proceed to not prove why

[pure willow]

Despite smurfing being a bannable offense in league of legends, riot will never actually handle the problem past a supposed smurf queue. (Before I hear its not, go to league support, report player, under cheating you'll see (...., smurfing, ....etc)

[remote spoke]

Imo jungling is SOOOOO much easier when you sup has a brain

[lone quiver]

Yeah cause good vision, pings

[austere escarp]

its not, you should go read the article

https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Player-Reporting-Guide-and-FAQ
How do I report an account for suspected MMR/Elo boosting?
Boosting != Smurfing

Here is the actual article on smurfing
https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001259787-Smurfing

[lone quiver]

Wasnt saying that was the only thing they have to do

i think good support play is hard

[split dagger]

New league > old league

(Apart from the game modes, twisted treeline and ascension were goated)

[cyan prawn]

execution by legos please

[raven sluice]

I step on legos regularly, OP's take is right

[split dagger]

Nowadays it’s just “ooo nobody is balanced enough” like dude just go back 10 years 💀

[cyan prawn]

give me back dodge chance on jax this game fucking blows

I should be able to execute my own minions like dota 2 with GP pistol

[raven sluice]

Me when I cant summon dragon to run down botlane

[placid shard]

Itd be neat to see a tryndamere rework he's been the same for 16 years

[raven sluice]

He fulfills his fantasy, he also got his AA range increased semirecently

[raven sluice]

Lulu has been the best enchanter forever and only Zilean is close

[opaque grove]

I'd argue that Nami is every bit as good as Lulu, but yea, the enchanter class tends to suck (and so do their items for the most part)

[raven sluice]

Her R is kinda meh. Maybe if you can get your team together, but its not really that good. Lulu gives an instant knockup, bonus HP, and a slow for kiting/chasing, even if she has no direct healing

[mossy adder]

Hot take: surrender voting should be nerfed, not removed. Someone should only have the ability to call a surrender once per game

[opaque grove]

Nami having CC on 3/4 abilities is not to be underestimated. Also her Q base dmg in particular is kinda nuts.

[raven sluice]

If you land Q

[opaque grove]

not that hard if you slow them w/ E first

[raven sluice]

They probably gut her because Lucian exists

[opaque grove]

she isn't gutted though, unironically one of the best enchanters because CC is evergreen

[raven sluice]

Late game thats not easy, other than combo off of ult

[raven sluice]

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean

[opaque grove]

CC is always valuable/useful

[raven sluice]

So is the damage

[opaque grove]

Damage is easy to get, 80%+ of champs in LoL do tons of damage if you build intelligently

CC is largely only available from champ choices (bar a few items, most notably Stridebreaker, which has probably the 2nd strongest active after Zhonya's)

Nami technically has 4 CCs (her ult has 2)

Only champ with more iirc, is Nautilus with 5 (ult has 2, passive 1, Q+E are the rest)

[raven sluice]

Rylai's is good but non-active, Ghostblade is busted rn

[opaque grove]

ghostblade is not CC

[raven sluice]

You said 2nd strongest active

[opaque grove]

yea, and I stand by that, 40% AoE 3 second non-decaying slow on a short CD? That's actually crazy strong for an item.

[raven sluice]

Yeah, but also because you get decaying ms per champion hit

[opaque grove]

sure, but that's not what makes it good, it's the slow and being a non-trivial amount and staying that way for 3 whole seconds (lot of movement distance lost)

especially with how MS caps work

like a 40% slow and a 99% slow are functionally almost identical in performance in most cases

[dawn plume]

Nami being gutted is a take I didn't think I'd hear

She's been consistently one of the better performing enchanters for a while

[opaque grove]

definitely a scorcher

[dawn plume]

I literally can never complain with a nami on my team

[opaque grove]

tbh, the best enchanters (her and Lulu) are the best because they have the most CC

[dawn plume]

Lulu is in a world of her own

Champ been disgusting for patches straight and Phreak sleeping on his chair

I saw Lulu solo laning a few matches ago and actually kind of doing a little too much

[opaque grove]

Polymorph has always been an extremely good CC

ahh OG on-hit Lulu, nice to see it still being tried

[raven sluice]

Three of her abilities are auto-targeted, an attack speed carry with three buffs (four with Pix) is insane

[dawn plume]

That ult is busted as hell too

She just ults the carry and completely flips every fight

[opaque grove]

It's a strong ult, I feel like a well used Janna ult can do more, but there's way more skill expression on Janna R

[dawn plume]

Amount of times we lost winning teamfights because Lulu ulted the Jinx or Aphelios is criminal

Also Lulu ult on Samira

[opaque grove]

yea, AoE knockup+immediate max hp on the adc (not countered by GW because not healing) is really strong

[dawn plume]

Even though Samira thrives with engages I need people to play at least one samira game with a lulu

[opaque grove]

yea I can totally see that pairing being extremely good

[dawn plume]

Actual fucking raid boss when she ults you

[opaque grove]

like Lulu R lets Samira use her passive on any nearby enemy

which is hilarious

[dawn plume]

And she hits everyone with her abilities so she gets S grade easier and you just see a Chogath sized Samira ult your entire team

If you don't have reliable cc she just eats all of you alive

[opaque grove]

Lulu E+R+shieldbow and BT on Samira...goood luck killing her

[raven sluice]

Also the Lulu R has a slow around her so Samira R slow doesnt matter

[dawn plume]

I love playing Samira because sometimes I just need to take time away from mid and Kat and she fills that gap

Sad that she has to be kept intentionally ass but thats the trade off ig

[opaque grove]

yea, I can see some Katarina skills translating to Samira, she is kinda the ADC version of Kat tbqh

speaking of OP supports....Taric....dudes been S tier for like half a decade at this point. legit wins every duo lane 2v2 with how his kit works

[dawn plume]

I mostly swap to adc sometimes because as much as I want to master Kat being a fed assassin hardly matters nowadays and the matches where it does matter are rare

And being behind on Kat genuinely feels terrible because shes such a shit farmer

[opaque grove]

yea, game is much more about wave control and tempo play than mechanical teamfighting (most fights are decided before they happen)

One of the reasons I love Yasuo so much is he is a god tier powerfarmer

[dawn plume]

I can be like 6/0 on kat and i still get statchecked by an inting Garen

I used to want to learn Yasuo but character design attracts me a bit more than gameplay sometimes and I like being red head assassin lady over paintbrush hair wind samurai

[opaque grove]

fair

[dawn plume]

He is fun though

[opaque grove]

gameplay tends to do it for me, but personality wise, my favorite is actually Xayah

[dawn plume]

And ive had some really good games on him

[dawn plume]

Same reason I enjoy samira so much despite being in such a dubious state

Who the fuck doesn't like a Devil May Cry bounty hunter lady

[opaque grove]

I like Samira quite a bit, used to main ADC for a while and also tend to love divers, and she is a good dose of both

[dawn plume]

With a COMBO COUNTER

Aphelios and Samira been my favorite ADCs

I like Jinx too but shes not really as engaging as Id like and Cait used to be my main but she gets banned every other game

[opaque grove]

Cait is unironically insanely good rn

[raven sluice]

Aphelios too goofy I cant

[dawn plume]

I tend to gravitate towards champs that have a lot of things to do like Aphelios

[opaque grove]

I wonder if you'd like Riven

[dawn plume]

I used to main Riven

[opaque grove]

lol that tracks

[dawn plume]

But I hated top lane with a passion

She was the first champ i got mastery 10 on

[opaque grove]

yea, I am lowkey nervous about the 1v1 in top much more than in other lanes, top laners....they know how to fuckin lane XD

[dawn plume]

Top lane is just so easy to win and lose on draft

[opaque grove]

that too, long lane+1v1=champ diff is mega impactful

[dawn plume]

Ive had times where enemy picks morde or darius into my riven and I just steamroll but then other times I end up laning against some shit like Kennen Illaoi or Renekton and it's just unplayable on all fronts

[opaque grove]

funny thing is, duo lane is actually even more volatile than top, but because you have 2 picks, you can often compensate for a draft diff to a degree (unless both sup and ADC picks are dead wrong for the lane matchup)

[dawn plume]

I hardly ever feel the draft diff in bot lane unless im blind picking Vayne (which is lunacy) into Cait or Draven or Aphelios into a Hook Support

[opaque grove]

yea, that's the thing, you can blind basically any ADC and not have an issue in lane if the sup picks appropriately and you understand matchup calculus for the 2v2.

tbh, when I mained ADC, I prefered to be last pick, so I could pick something that plays well into enemy teamcomp later.

[dawn plume]

Kaisa used to be another one of my favorites till they really fucked her up and she's already a piss poor laner

[opaque grove]

hmm, I feel like Kai'Sa's actually fine atm, but people aren't running the right builds

she's never had a good laning presense imo (except release when she was overtuned).

[dawn plume]

I can build Kaisa, surviving lane is a different story

And kaisa from behind is ROUGH

Since she likes to really go in

[opaque grove]

I've tended to like fitting bork into her build ever since I found an efficient way to do it (original version used muramana when that was overtuned, current iteration uses Kraken)

[somber perch]

bork on ranged champs 💀

we listen and we dont judge :3 .....

[opaque grove]

people are sleeping on bork because it was nerfed from being one of the most busted items in the game to something that is a counter to health-stacking

it's really good v. tanky teamcomps

Kai'Sa's innate has always had excellent synergy with bork passive too.

problem people had in the early days was: how to fit it in the build and get evos with good tempo

[somber perch]

people stopped buying it cause within like 5 patches it went from 9% current health to 5

[opaque grove]

yea, 9% version was absolutely busted tbh

[somber perch]

yet there are barely adc's who frequenly buy it now

[opaque grove]

yea, it's a niche item for most, and is also not a good rush buy at all anymore (so you see it less because you shouldn't build it till later)

like fun fact: bork passive is as good as kraken's at 2000-2666.(6) target max hp (based on level because KS dmg is level scaled)

so it's way weaker to rush than kraken, but....later in the game it often does more v. frontline (a lot more against full tanks and juggernauts)

also note that bruiser and juggernaut hp values went up in those same patches because of item changes

so the actual net nerf is less than the numbers would imply (still a net nerf, but not undeserved given how OP it was before)

[somber perch]

right i get that, but several adc 's are stuck with their item builds at 3 core items

i wont see a sivir go for navori > flickerblades > bork

[opaque grove]

yea, which is why you see bork less often, it's a later game item now.

on-hit ADCs are the ones that get the most value out of bork too

(Kai'Sa has some great on-hit builds which imo are being underapprciated)

[dim condor]

Navori > Flickerblades

[opaque grove]

XD

[rocky perch]

buff hecarim hes genuinely a ass champ

[opaque grove]

I think he meant Essence Reaver 1st (ER)

afaik, ER-> NF is a pretty solid core on Sivir

(I'm more partial to ER->IE personally)

[lone quiver]

Buff [champ i am currently playing] rn tbh

[ornate dome]

AUTOFILL JG causing more harm than Good , Non Jg mains vs JG main, Remove Autofill on that role

Yasuo mains are mostly hot trash should i champion be perma ban because of the still ongoing epidemic Cancer Trashuo mains

[raven sluice]

Nah this is straight up wrong, it still gives you a slow and lifesteal, and is the only item that gives attack speed and lifesteal

[raven sluice]

Shieldbow needs lifesteal back, and should keep crit

[pure willow]

Especially a nami lucian combo sheesh

[pure willow]

Tbh, then it makes adc's way to tanky again. Which then makes assassins even more useless...etc.

Imo they should just raise the attack speed making it equal to other crit items. Adding more lifesteal would be too much especially with bloodthirster...etc. on a range champ that can kite/space...etc. would be unhealthy for the game.

[rocky perch]

akshan r is dogshit

its just shit caitlyn r

[vapid swallow]

Arguably the worst ult in the game. If it applied on hit it might be ok.

[rocky perch]

me omw to have a caitlyn r that gets blocked by minions

and towers... and other people....

[dawn plume]

Bad Bard ult be like

[opaque grove]

yea, but that's user error. Just similar to J4 ulting their ADC in with a diver/assassin.

great Bard ults are legit incredibly impactful (remember seeing one where it set up a perfectly timed Ori R afterwards on like the whole enemy team).

[pure willow]

Top lane is slowly migrating to mid, and forcing mid lane pool to consist more and more of the top lane pool. Fizz and other assassins cannot survive or be viable with this growing move of top laners.

[worn musk]

What top laners do you find in the mid lane so often?

[opaque grove]

Tower plates kinda killed mid assassin viability by making playing the roam game during back half of laning phase too costly in terms of what you give over to the enemy mid.

[pure willow]

Garen/sion/chogath are fairly common now sion alone straight up is a problem with early death timers...etc. lets see... I see Susan (nasus) here and there, we can kinda count vlad? But he allways bounced between both for years and mostly settled in mid so really he is a mid mage. (Same issue I have with garen all sustain no mana energy champ, war of attrition that being health so dorans shield or relying on just dorans full mana to health regen to stay in lane...etc)
Riven is an every blue moon match up, but man is she rough if she is a midlane.

Gragas is really common if I pick fizz and they second pick gragas because he pretty much just hard counters the champ. stuns fizz in his Q for no damage...etc. if you E he stuns bonks you then runs way and Q chase would put you at a disadvantage with cooldowns not to mention jg roams...etc.

Lets see, trundle is also one ive seen be mid, he is 50/50 like he is killable but like only with tower after first item. Tryndamere there's just no winning that match up. He tower dives with undying state if you're low from trades+ if you just back takes tower...etc.

Malaphite mid is fairly common. Mundo isn't common at all but if he does go mid into fizz his scaling with heartsteel is basically unbeatable for you, so you have to just sit back and not take trades to not let him stack. Orn I haven't seen in a while honestly. Which is surprising since around S8~S9 it was fairly common for me to see him bounce for mid.
Then there's Rumble and kench/gnar. Which 1v1 sucks but tower taking wise they're slower then the others mentioned so your roams are not as hard punished coming back to a 1/4th tower from a single roam...etx.

Jayce mid is annoying but atleast manageable in my elo because most don't have the hands for him yet. I suspect with a actual skilled spacing...

This is only really prevelant around silver. When I break into gold this dies down but still something I see. Id highly recommend playing fizz around this elo.

(Sorry If I type alot lol)

[dawn plume]

Jayce mids been a legitimate pick for a bit and Tryndamere has always been an actual mid lane pick for a very long time

Gragas is THE 3 role flex tbh

Ive seen malphite mid plenty as a counterpick to assassins and AD champs never seen Trundle mid tho

[pure willow]

Trundle mid bro. Its so nasty if he plays safe early and just farms like nasus. Dude can take towers like no other lol. Id highly recommend playing it mid and try it out. (If trundle isn't absolutely nerfed to the dirt right now)

As for the others yee, that's why I put them pretty low on the list. Id class them as top lane style champs (maybe not jayce just because he weirdly feels like galio mid who vibe wise seems suited mid) Tryn top though seems like garen top. He has worse 1v1s up top in alot of cases so he just migrated mid for better matchups...etc. Its why theres a cool dude named Triton who's a masters garen mid player goes mid. Just better matchups and less likely to be put behind.

Which those match ups frankly are not skill matchups lol they heavily are scale based ones. Its kinda like lane swapping without having to lane swap...etc.

[dawn plume]

I mean tbh

I wouldnt consider Garen's mid matchups much better, the good matchups are REALLY good but the bad match ups are genuinely downright inting on Garen's side

Legit any mage that doesn't have to kiss him the way Ryze has to can completely negate him

And even a shorter range mage like Ryze has some form of cc to keep him off them

He gigastomps assassins and the windshitters though

[pure willow]

Right, but even in mage match ups he can outsustain them, then all he is doing is sitting and scaling...etc. maybe freezes wave for jg to look mid...etc.

Like arguably the match ups are not too bad. And at some point garen can flash q spin on them and then auto R them for a kill...etc.

How I'd describe tops play style is like mage play style mid. Its just don't interact with one another. You win in the end so there's no need to risk a few deaths. Just be a waterfall, constantly pushing water down...etc. in this case waves...etc. take tower when they back because at some point they won't be able keep you off it...etc.

The sustain+their ability to have unmatched agency late game is what's super strong. Especially with their increased agency early game they did to make top lane more fun for them.

[dawn plume]

Garen can't outsustain mages in mid unless they're willingly letting him

His passive requires to not have taken damage for a few seconds

If they're constantly harassing hes forced to either try to trade back or miss xp

Sure it costs them mana, but without being able to proc passive you are trading mana for health effectively

The reason he's so much more effective in top and vs assassins is because they actually have to get up close to trade/poke and that gives him ample time to fight back while also giving him breathing room for passive

Mages don't give him either of those things

And with the shorter lane mages are very safe from him unless they took awful trades because garen is not gonna 100-0 you under your own tower in the early game ever

[pure willow]

Oh 100% I get that, but that's why I'm saying is he can sacrifice some exp, because all he has to do is allow some harassment for melee when they're low, then back off out of their range...etc. and with the latest exp changes, it actually benefits him because he can be alot farther and still get some exp while letting them push waves while hitting him+wave if they harass him taking melee...etc.

I'm not saying its not a frustrating match up, I'm saying that its still very much winnable/can proc his passive if he just sits back like hoe fiora resets vitals...etc.

Plus he rushed something with mr and they'll do significantly less damage/harass

[worn musk]

All of the champs (Exceplt vlad) it is widely know that assasin AP/AD just dont reall work into them. So it should be common knowlage to just play a mage.

[pure willow]

Issue is often times ill be picking first for mid Lol. Try to swap and then I'm just kinda sol 😂

[opaque grove]

Yea, some champs are unfortunately like that (not really blindable if you want to not have to deal with hard problems in a decent percent of games). Like Vayne has this problem, but it's not really her lane matchups so much if the enemy drafts certain champs, she can barely play the game (if several of them, it's unplayable).

[lone quiver]

Soraka needs a visual update

Ancient ass model

Just give her the WR model

[rocky perch]

Singed first

Or better yet vlad

[remote spoke]

4500 msgs in this chat is crazy

[remote spoke]

Don't you dare touch singed

[lone quiver]

him too

and Zilean jesus christ he is ancient

[dawn plume]

Zilean never getting a visual update

[lone quiver]

Smh

He needs an update update fr

[fast atlas]

Maybe with Arcane 5

[ocean carbon]

@tidal wedge

[autumn bough]

zilean never get love

[placid shard]

league of legends keeps making their game less and less bad ass

[lone quiver]

i mean ambessa is pre badass imo

champ not even 6 months old

the quality of skins dropping off a cliff is very lame and not badass though yes

[placid shard]

like why does every character look like a child now, ambessa is a refreshing change but smoulder diego briar like what happened to like the days where skins were unique. now every goal of league skins are cute or anime

[lone quiver]

i hate smolder design agreed he is highly lame

champ calls for his mommy for his ult lol

[lone quiver]

those sell the best lol

like agree but their bottom line is profit after all ya it is lame tho, world of warcraft went thru a very similar thing go search up the OG 2004 WoW launch trailer then go look at any of the last couple xpac trailers the difference in tone is kinda hilarious

[fallen dock]

Briar looks pretty badass in frenzy form but I def agree on Viego, they made the heavily hyped up "Ruined King" and it's just a pale dude with his shirt ripped off

[lone quiver]

Hes not totally lame but he is more pretty boy emo than badass ye

[cyan prawn]

fuck that season 15 champion

[rapid minnow]

Thresh has no good items, just ones that are suboptimal

[lone quiver]

Y

[keen girder]

this is hilariously accurate

[kind flower]

There are more good-natured lol players than toxic slurfests.

I think it's just easier to notice the toxic ones.

[paper willow]

elo hell is real and just because you're in the same rank as another player does not mean you're as bad/good as them

[lone quiver]

Copington copernious

[tame gale]

the good ones just dont type as much

[runic stone]

the game is dying

viewership drops, revenue drops, players age, newcomers are not supported by riot, and the rank system isn’t what it used to be.

the grind isn’t worth the pain, the balance team is doing experiments, the skins are just replicas or chromas of old ones, they take away fun in exchange for greed

[severe matrix]

this is a hot take thread not a thread

[opaque grove]

Neutral objectives are way to valuable (and up too often) for how easy to take they are.

[kindred stream]

Aw man what happened to the rtf background

[rocky perch]

mel reflect shouldnt make her invincible

[supple laurel]

Still there

[opaque grove]

This is the hot takes thread, that is about as cold of a hot take as I can imagine.

[rocky perch]

didnt realise it was

thought id hear some cope about its high cd or some shit idc if its 30 to a minute im not a fan of a mini taric r

[fluid grove]

I don't think single men should get involved with single mothers

[fast atlas]

This is not a hot take, it is a fact

[opaque grove]

Yea, this is the retort to those that say it's CD means its fine (tbh it's not as broken as it seems because she doesn't have the kinds of tools that allow a champion to be complete bullshit for being invulnerable for a few seconds (Taric R being able to affect allies like Katarina and Master Yi is a huge part of why it's so strong and deservingly a long CD ult, and has a delay on the effect too).

[inner lynx]

Lee sin gotta have another +3 AD so bro can start one shotting lvl 3