#Bad mental is the true problem with ranked

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

oak onyx
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Disclaimer: This is not me venting over one bad game. This is something I notice a lot in emerald elo.

I am making this thread in reaction to the outrageously bad mental in this elo. The following is an example game where one of these people lost a very winnable game.

For example, in one of my more recent games one of these toxic early quitter guys wanted to ff after one bad play. Bot is having a hard time but has good mental, they end up 2/10 in mid game.

Jungler is having a mental breakdown in chat, crying, screaming to surrender and how we are holding him hostage.

I am playing kayle and am 6/1 around 20 mins. Our Renekton top is doing fine. Around this point the team wants to ff because our ekko has lost his dam mind. I honestly think he did more at this point to destroy team cohesion than the feeding bot did. Somehow I manage to cheer my team up enough to keep going.

Late game: I manage to kill a third of enemy team and secure baron while jungler is farming creeps and typing a manifesto in chat about why bot sucks and should ff to save time.

We form up 3 man because our top has to stop enemy top splitpushing, and our ekko was rage splitting bot and refused to group, got killed. Enemy pushed in and we lost due to being picked apart. (Open inhibs and double stacked supers on all sides.)

This is just one example of a game that could be won if the jungler here had a better mentality. The feeding bot lane was honestly giving it their all and I’d sooner play with that 2/16 bot lane than the ekko.

valid dome
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For every "Ekko" is losing their mind in your team, there is also another "Ekko" doing the same thing in the other team

humble hound
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i remember a game where my jungler was also tilted really fast, idk what it was but a few minutes in he hard tilted from a failed gank; pretty sure he died.
then he kept saying "you 4 dont deserve to win" and stopped trying while i tried to keep his mental up by making game plans he magically somewhat followed

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in the end we won, hard 35 minute game where it was a gamble until the jgl would completely give up and run it down. i said a few times hes doing fine and that we were winning and made sure he last hit kills when skirmishing or ganking me while splitting mid game

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staying positive will do more for the subconscious of a tilted player than their conscious.

oak onyx
humble orbit
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Its old plat 1-2 but on steroids

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Its more of a current game issue rather than emerald itself emerald just has the highest amount of it due to the throwaway accounts. Low masters is similar to this

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Ever since bauss's whole inting strat has became mainstream a lot of games where people should be banned for inting dont because its seen as just a bad game when they are 2/14 and obviously trolling

valid dome
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If the idea is that throwaway accounts are the reason why for low game quality then plat/gold are the "worst" rank since that's where most fresh accounts mmr starts at

oak onyx
# valid dome If the idea is that throwaway accounts are the reason why for low game quality t...

Na, that’s just one reason why. There’s more. Many boosted players falling from Diamond is one. New players being placed in low emerald/high plat is another.

Throwaway accounts is the third. Fourth is the first three mixing to create a feedback loop of toxicity.

Four feeds into five, where it becomes a self sustained system of griefing where no one feels responsible for their own mistakes. This is why you see stuff like shyvana support and other weird picks, no one cares anymore because riot won’t enforce punishment.

Doesn’t help that there’s actually many winnable games that become unwinnable because of people who simply want to quit at 15 and go next. It’s an ego issue, they want to noob stomp someone and not put real effort into turning around a losing match.

When you combine all of the above it actually becomes an elo hell scenario, where the matches are too bad quality to consistently carry over a short term. I think it would take a master player 100-200 matches to go from emerald 4 to Diamond 4 on an existing account with neutral MMR. Maybe 40-60 matches if he gets lucky.

valid dome
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@oak onyx What rank are you?

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What makes you think climbing from e4 to d4 will take that many games?

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This is how impossible it will be for a masters player to be stuck in emerald for 100-200 games

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If you want to climb through emerald you need 500 lp, given that each game is roughly 20 lp per game. Because we know this, the minimum amount of games you need to climb through emerald with no skips is 25 games. In order to be stuck in Emerald for 200 games that would mean you would need a winrate of 12%. No masters player or even diamond players will be stuck in Emerald for this long.

hardy cloak
humble orbit
humble orbit
# hardy cloak yeah Emerald elo is something but the "only things" you have to do to climb out ...

That wont even work since you can have a 55% wr with negative lp gains and you would have to spam 100s of games to climb out of it. Emerald is just the old p1/p2 rank on steroids. You have to carry everygame if you want to get out of the elo unless you get lucky teams that are not hard running it down in half of ur games since a large amount of the players in that elo should be in gold and below

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Riot just skewed the mmr too much that a g3 account will start p2 in placements when it should have been g3 in the beginning of placements not p2.

rancid scroll
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It’s more of old D4

humble orbit
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I mean atleast the d4 0 lp kids would actually demote so that would incentivize them to stop inting every once in a while

rancid scroll
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Because of where they start, but yeah agree with OP, mental is the biggest setback and is that way in almost every rank. You, me, your teammates, your opponents and everyone in the community faces this issue so it just cancels out

humble orbit
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It is just a result of riot not punishing those people who will run it down after one bad thing happens riot needs to take action on a lot of things that they arent currently

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Riot needs to heavily enforce harsher penalties on support players for a start. WAY too many support players just hard int the entire game every game and will never be banned

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Shaco and Zyra supports ar ethe major ones of this that will do 3/15/10 everygame and wont be punished

hardy cloak
humble orbit
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Phreak had talked about Zyra supports in one of his streams too. Zyra otps have the highest average amount of deaths out of all of the champions and most players would rather have an autofilled support than a Zyra support. Phreak says he would rather have that Zyra support though which is funny considering the next thing I saw from Phreak after this is him flaming his support on coach curtis' stream

humble orbit
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Its jsut annoying how riot promised us faster lp gains due to 2 splits in a season (apparently 3 now?) and with the addition of the new rank it takes longer to get an acc to ur true elo if you are smurfing but then they nerf lp down to 20 natural in emerald+

hardy cloak
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Shouldn't this balance out over game?

humble orbit
hardy cloak
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well this isn't what I experienced tho

humble orbit
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just click random people in this guys match history and youll find more

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Check his tier history and youll see how bad the mmr system is rn lmao

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Some of these are inaccurate since dodges are -3 -15 so sometimes youll find a random -36

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Just hoping riots new mmr system will fix the massive flaws that emerald added

hardy cloak
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most acc I see seems to have normal lp gain

hardy cloak
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he ended up last season plat 2 / 75lp and now he's plat 1 / 28lp with 51% wr

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where is the problem ?

peak dagger
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Riot has created a player culture that is toxic, as a result of their design decisions. Weak mental is more of a personal trait, but Riot coddles weak mental players. The competitive design of League means every player wants to have that 'main character' fantasy fulfilled. If a weak mental player isn't dominating their lane, they want out...and Riot provides the FF option after 15 minutes. If a player wants to surrender, and the vote fails, it likely compounds the issue. The tilted player is in a game they don't want to play, and now they have a team that isn't on the same page as them. A failed surrender vote is highly unlikely to change the thinking of a tilted player.

Surrender should be disabled in ranked entirely. If you queue up for ranked, you should be committed to constantly searching for your win condition - even when behind. FF for an AFK/DC is fine, and Riot provides mitigation for it. The FF option just provides selfish players with a means to further tilt themselves when 3-4 players who aren't playing poorly want to rightfully continue.

loud hawk
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i gree

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agree*

devout charm
humble hound
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im ngl good

valid dome
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I saw so many people claim this but they never are able to prove that it happened

devout charm
valid dome
devout charm
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i wouldent lie about something you could google in a min

humble orbit
# valid dome Let's see it

Doublelift, King niddhog, Alois, and bobqin have all had accounts that were not 'hardstuck' but would take a lot of games to get out of that elo

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They have shared about it from time to time

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It may be xfsn saber and not doublelift actually but I remember it was one of the adc mains

valid dome
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Great another TikTok where they don't even provide any evidence and it's literally just "trust me"

valid dome
humble orbit
humble orbit
valid dome
humble orbit
valid dome
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When they provide 0 evidence, no account info and people just believe this stuff

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If it's so true, why hide the proof?

humble orbit
humble orbit
valid dome
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They would very easily show what account they are on for a single second

humble orbit
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idk

valid dome
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Just be like "emerald rank is elo hell" then flashes what account is stuck

humble orbit
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For both of alois' videos about emerald hell I can't find the acc fundamentalgaren and forwayson

valid dome
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This is common practice for literally everyone who has a point to prove

humble orbit
valid dome
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That's true, they aren't actually trying to prove that emerald is elo hell.

humble orbit
valid dome
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It's on the people who takes it as fact that are in the wrong

humble orbit
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I mean there is so much evidence from what people have experienced that emerald is currently the elo hell

oak onyx
humble orbit
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It is harder to climb out of emerald than diamond just due to how poor emerald mentals are and how toxic the mental is with the players there

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Emerald and masters are the worst and it just depends on who you ask, but its really based on the people who spend more time in the ranks like mechanicalplayer thinks masters is worse than emerald elo hell but its cuz he gets a gm yasuo that is useless everygame on his team

valid dome
humble orbit
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Was just clickbait and its just a tyupical 'elo hell' vid and not the acc from when he said he was stuck on one

valid dome
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Yeah the account climbed from plat to dia

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And no one would hardly ever call it hard stuck

humble orbit
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those two accs he didnt claim it was hardstuck he claimed 'even a challenger can struggle in emerald (elo hell)'

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No other elo will perma grief you more than emerald players cuz they think their horrible plays are the right play way too much. Masters is the same thing where ego just overtakes everything

valid dome
humble orbit
valid dome
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It's always worse in lower elo because it's easier to smurf in lower elo games

humble orbit
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its just emerald to masters the ego is insane on the players and they will make the most horrible plays everygame

valid dome
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If Smurf accounts are what ruins games, it's always the lower elos that have it the worst and it's not even close

humble orbit
valid dome
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There are only so many people that can Smurf in emerald because it actually takes efforts to get to those ranks

valid dome
humble orbit
valid dome
humble orbit
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The issue with emerald is just that it is too easy to get into the rank and too difficult to get out since you get +30 going into emerald then once ur in emerald its +20

valid dome
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It's +25 to +20

humble orbit
# valid dome It's +25 to +20

Most accs i've researched are having +30 - 20/25 even with 100 games and from the accounts i've played they've all been 28-32 gains

valid dome
humble orbit
valid dome
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I'm talking about normal accounts which gets +20

humble orbit
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I have another fresh acc that is plat 3 with 15 games 50% wr duoing with my brother teaching him how to play the game that is still getting +32 - 22

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I do believe though that with the changes riot is bringing and hopefully them going to be punishing botted accounts more that people will int less so game quality goes up

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Scripters have also been on the rise. I've seen 5-6 scripters this szn already and all of them apart from 2 have been playing senna support

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https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/666-low 9 https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/MG Enough-NA1
scripting duo

OP.GG
666#low 9 - Summoner Stats - League of Legends

Lord Darmaton / Emerald 2 86LP / 41Win 9Lose Win Rate 82% / Kayn - 10Win 2Lose Win Rate 83%, Graves - 6Win 4Lose Win Rate 60%, Kindred - 8Win 0Lose Win Rate 100%, Diana - 4Win 0Lose Win Rate 100%, Akali - 4Win 0Lose Win Rate 100%

OP.GG
MG Enough#NA1 - Summoner Stats - League of Legends

MG Enough / Diamond 4 1LP / 26Win 9Lose Win Rate 74% / Tristana - 11Win 3Lose Win Rate 79%, Hecarim - 7Win 1Lose Win Rate 88%, Twitch - 5Win 3Lose Win Rate 63%, Cassiopeia - 1Win 2Lose Win Rate 33%, Ashe - 2Win 0Lose Win Rate 100%

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Mg is blatant and has evade from fog turned on while the 66 guy has some things turned off to dodge. Crazy though how 50 games of blatant scripting and still not banned

round marsh
humble orbit
round marsh
# humble orbit If a member on my team is griefing I should be allowed to save myself 10-15 minu...

Surrender vote existing caters to weak mental players. I get the time efficiency argument, but most of the time I see someone trying to FF for the first time in a game, it's still usually far from decided even if the game isn't going well (and the vote failing often results in the player that called the vote lowkey trying to soft int until they can post the vote again until it suceeds or we lose because they're intentially trying to dig a deeper hole so that game ends quicker).

leaden marsh
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emerald mental is the worst on the entire ladder.

humble orbit
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Players will deny a 4 to 28 surrender vote at 20 minutes

round marsh
humble orbit
round marsh
humble orbit
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Majority of players do not care to play the game out and a lot of players don't want to win a game where teammates are just griefing the game permanently and clicking no

oak onyx
humble orbit
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there isnt really a fix to this though. The only thing I could think of is that players who are performing extremely badly shouldn't have a vote in the surrender vote (like 0/10/5 support etc) but this could just cause players who aren't hard inting to hostage games that way so its just an extremely hard thing to implement

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Riot should just make it if your team is down 7.5-10k gold you only need 3 yes votes I feel

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I believe its 3 yes for normals now past 20 too iirc

round marsh
round marsh
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Used to be pre-20 had to be 5-0.

humble orbit
round marsh
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I can see the argument for letting 4-1 stand in general (because of the data shows if a 4-1 vote happens the game almost always results in a L. I've won more than a few games where there was a 3-2 vote and then we rallied afterwards.

valid dome
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@round marsh Isn't the current ff system good tho?

humble orbit
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If team is down 7.5-10k I feel like it should be 3-2 to surrender

valid dome
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3-2 seems excessive but 4-1 should be the standard

round marsh
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I'd prefer no surrender votes existing personally, but I agree that allowing 4-1's at all times surrendering is allowed is reasonable.

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Honestly the griefing and surrender vote issues are partly a biproduct of the elephant in the room, which is that LoL is overly snowbally and the game forces laning phase to be pretty long which leads to gapped laners and anti-fun midgame experiences for all involved.

valid dome
humble orbit
valid dome
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Since all of those issues should be solved once Vangaurd is introduced, I understand the point of not wasting resources

round marsh
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They may be taking the Valve approach

humble orbit
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Some cheats are already past vanguard though. I have a friend who is big in the scripting community so I know a bit about them

humble orbit
valid dome
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I mean try it out yourself and update us, but I'm p sure your friend won't just give it to you

round marsh
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They usually ban in waves intentionally

humble orbit
valid dome
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Ban waves are the best approach for banning

round marsh
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VAC may not be great but because they don't necessarily let on when it's detections have improved, it often does managed to catch frequent cheaters at some point.

valid dome
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VAC is p bad lol

humble orbit
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Cheat devs change a lot of things in their cheats and if you ban in frequent waves like 2wks the dev will have a 2wk period of knowing what got the plkayers banned. Doing 6mo bans are usual ly the best for having the game playable for a while

valid dome
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If you don't have a prime acc for csgo, expect cheaters

round marsh
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It has been gradually getting beaten by cheat maker innovations, it was p good about a decade ago.

humble orbit
round marsh
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afaik, even faceit's having some problems w/ cheaters now.

valid dome
humble orbit
valid dome
round marsh
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cheaters have learned how to hide them better.

humble orbit
humble orbit
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Lots of top tier fortnite pros being exposed for it

valid dome
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You need to buy a lot of stuff from the gray market

humble orbit
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Quite easy to detect mainstream cheats because ac will find things in common with all of those pcs suspected of cheating

valid dome
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The only cheats are that being used in Val are just private ones

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Public cheats are close to impossible to sustain

humble orbit
valid dome
humble orbit
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friends with a cheat dev for rust that exit scams every 6mo and the same people always get his cheats again cuz they never get banned lmao

valid dome
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I'm just really excited for League's future, Vangaurd is going to be amazing, especially the high elo playerbase

humble orbit
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He had the only working bypass for a bit that evil cheats was trying to get

humble orbit
valid dome
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My favourite reason is "the chinese government is going to spy on you"

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on reasons on why Vanguard is bad

humble orbit
peak dagger