Opinion on Vanguard?

[hexed quiver]

I have my mail on the dark web tbh, and I'm sure it's more secured than in riot servers tbh

[final grove]

No it isnt lol

[viscid axle]

You just said you don’t care if vanguard can grab your password

[final grove]

So to be clear ur argument is that vanguard will mean compromising my steam account (lol)

[hexed quiver]

Give my your league password then

[viscid axle]

No, I’m merely joining in on your examples

[gritty slate]

yep. riot was literally compromised a year ago... this year? "give us root access to your pc!"

[final grove]

Why? Lol

[hexed quiver]

Why not

[pale flint]

Then you should uninstall League Client right now, considering Riot is already compromised

[final grove]

How does that follow

[gritty slate]

league client doesnt have root access to my pc right now

[viscid axle]

Their current anti-cheat doesn’t have kernel-access, and thus can’t just do whatever it wants with your pc without restrictions

[tranquil night]

im always so curious what kind of torture rings people are running from their computers to be so paranoid about their shit being potentially compromised. like yeah it would be a pain if something got leaked but people act like they would die if something happened. if you're that concerned use a separate computer for playing games 🤷‍♂️

[hexed quiver]

Idk bro murder is kinda bad, dont wanna be killed

[tranquil night]

yeah man i'm sure installing vanguard is gonna get you murdered lol

[hexed quiver]

Might never say never

[tranquil night]

you should probably see a psychologist if thats a genuine concern and not just shitposting

[gritty slate]

AGAIN data theft is NOT the issue. Vanguard gets compromised, data theft is the least of your concerns.

[hexed quiver]

Burned to the 2nd degree or what ?

[tranquil night]

like what are you imagining happening in worst case scenario here

(murder is not a valid answer i'm talking about things that could actually happen)

[hexed quiver]

Anyway i think vanguard is whatever. But the blind faith people put in riot is scary. The number of opinions that are "god riot said that therefore I'll do that" is scary. Legit apple cult all over again.

[dense breach]

I'm on the side of allowing Vangaurd but the threat about Vangaurd is basically if Vangaurd ever gets comprimised then your pc is at major risk because of the kernel level access

Again big if

[viscid axle]

This is like saying we should get rid off all the safety measures that are build in in cars because you shouldn’t crash anyway

[gritty slate]

crypto bot netting would be super easy to pull off if vanguard is compromised. millions of pcs becoming tor clients? easy to do. data stored on your machine that you, or your os have no idea is there.

[dense breach]

But it's not like the potential isn't there

[hexed quiver]

Yeah the Philippines server used to do that lol

Garena it was called i think

[dense breach]

Still wishing that Vangaurd arrives sooner because smurfs bots and cheaters are ruining my games

[tranquil night]

not really. i just think people overestimate the ACTUAL threat posed by installing vangaurd

[gritty slate]

no. you're downplaying it

[tranquil night]

like i said i personally don't like vanguard and probably won't be updating to it with league, but i also dont think its as serious a threat as people make it out to be

[hexed quiver]

Oh and now we see it. Low elo thinking smurf ruins his game. Hey lil bro, only iron has bot. Even without bot you'll be the same rank.

[dense breach]

https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/nyangi-KOR1

[viscid axle]

I don’t believe riot has bad intend with vanguard, and I do believe they will do whatever they can to secure any data breaches like they had last year to not have vanguard compromised also, but denying that vanguard has no risks to it is just insane. IF vanguard’s source code gets leaked, every pc that has it installed is then owned by the person who cracked the code

[dense breach]

Also deranking bots, they are actual cancer

[hexed quiver]

Oh needs to show his rank for credibility. Just peak league culture, even if i tried I couldn't make this shit up.

[dense breach]

i don't know why i entertain you...

[tranquil night]

if this were a uniquely riot thing i might be more inclined to take people seriously but kernel level anticheat has been around for a long time and is used in tons of other games and so far the world has not collapsed

there a million things more likely to cause serious problems than installing vanguard

[hexed quiver]

Well done bro you got diamond 3 in the most elo inflated season. You are now a anti cheat pro also ! Riot said it

[gritty slate]

Except LoL/Vanguard is 10x the target of even the next closest kernel level AC... And those kernel level AC's are ALSO an issue

[hexed quiver]

But they don't run 24/7 tho

And they are not bordeline impossible do unistall

[upper kestrel]

running 24/7 or not is irrelevant eitherw ay

[viscid axle]

Yes, and I think it’s an issue with other games also, but I do not play those games so there’s not a lot of incentive of me to go argue about it on their forums

[hexed quiver]

Why ?

[dense breach]

if they are kernel, they can just run in the background

[upper kestrel]

it's kernel level, everything around it is based on a "trust me bro"
you cannot confirm whether they do what they say they do, with kernel level access you can easily mask ANYTHING

[dense breach]

^

[hexed quiver]

Actually true can't argue against that

[upper kestrel]

kernel level anticheats are a literal disease

[final grove]

U called him lowelo and then he sent his opgg, are u ok?

[gritty slate]

If they are compromised, the first time it runs, you're screwed anyway. Doesn't matter if they stop, whatever piggybacked alongside side it is already there

[hexed quiver]

League culture cultist number 2 spotted

[hexed quiver]

True can't argue against that

[final grove]

Ur the one calling people lowelo LMFAO

[hexed quiver]

Ure the one getting offended ?

[tranquil night]

yes, i still dont think that vanguard being compromised and being pushed with malware has a very high likelihood

[final grove]

Who is offended 💀

[upper kestrel]

then you are stupid

it's not a question of if, it's a question of when, like with everything in IT

[gritty slate]

You trust 30 riot devs more than thousands of people getting to compromise it...

Sounds smart

[upper kestrel]

just about everything you have ever touched has been compromised in the past, and patched

[final grove]

So ur saying its certain to be used to distribute malware, source?

[tranquil night]

okay but arent you also stupid for being on discord right now

[viscid axle]

I think this argument is a bit missplaced seeing riot had their sourcecode leaked just a year ago

[upper kestrel]

instead of acting like a clown like your profile, trying to put words in my mouth, you'd be better off reading what I actually said

[tranquil night]

because that could be compromised as well, and so could your OS itself, and so could your browser, and your steam download...

[final grove]

You said the question isnt if but when, which would mean its certain

[upper kestrel]

those don't give kernel access to a malicious actor

[tranquil night]

really everyone is out to get you and nothing is safe and you should live off the grid to avoid danger of your computer being turned into an ied

[hexed quiver]

"I have one leak in my house might as well remove all the walls" argument

[tranquil night]

they dont really need kernel access to do damage with malware lole

[gritty slate]

Of those, only your OS has root access. And my OS is open source. And there are thousands of devs contributing to it and validating it, and I can validate it myself... Vs 30 riot devs

[upper kestrel]

you don't, hence, start to use those neurons to think about what kernel level access could do for a malicious actor

[tranquil night]

yeah but its just a matter of when, not if, like all things in tech.

[viscid axle]

Without your OS you couldn’t really use a pc, it is a bit more important then an anticheat program. Also you want to MINIMIZE the risk, you can never run with 0 risk when connected to the interwebs

[hexed quiver]

They'll probably add some photo to my seraphine art Clueless

[tranquil night]

yeah but even having a pc is putting you at risk man

[gritty slate]

If they don't have root access, you can tell what is happening on your PC. If they do, they can do harm, and you never even know about it. THAT is the difference between vanguard and the discord client

[tranquil night]

i connect to the internet through a series of repeater stations and potato batteries

[upper kestrel]

my bad, I forgot this chat is filled with 17 year old kids that think they understand tech because they know more about PCs than their best friend in high school

[hexed quiver]

Watch your mouth, a guy here is diamond 3, he surely know better than you

[viscid axle]

What do you even want me to answer on this?

[upper kestrel]

if we want to throw around epeen rank I can join too dw

[gritty slate]

The LoL discord: "let's not listen to people who have decades of combined dev and infosec experience"

[upper kestrel]

basically this

[dense breach]

🤓 ☝️

[upper kestrel]

it's like diamond players being adamant about objectively and factually wrong things, and egoing it because "I'm diamond, I'm top x%"

[tranquil night]

or not everyone is hysterical about the risks of using software

[viscid axle]

By going outside you can get hit by a bus, so just never go outside?

[tranquil night]

thats kind of my point man, everything has a risk to it and you can decide whether or not you want to take on that risk

[upper kestrel]

instead it's people in their young 20s who've had 2 CS classes that think they are the next mr robot

[tranquil night]

if you decide that the risk of kernel ac is unacceptable to you then you dont have to use it, nobody is forcing you to

[upper kestrel]

yeah, it's called stupidity. if you hadn't realized, the average human being is an absolute moron

[gritty slate]

Lol you're giving them too much credit with those 2 CS classes

[viscid axle]

I’ve had 3 classes actually 🤓☝️

[upper kestrel]

hence why me and many others are deleting the game the moment it gets forced down our throats

[hexed quiver]

Same team

[tranquil night]

yes nobody ever denied you that option

[upper kestrel]

the only way I'd ever keep playing is by buying a fully firewalled off/airgapped mini PC

[tranquil night]

and thats your prerogative, i probably won't be updating either

[gritty slate]

I'll play on my hackintosh install... They should port the client to console and let people play with MnK there lol

[upper kestrel]

that is also a fair alternative if you own hardware that supports running hackintosh

I still have my 1080 laying around, I just don't want to deal with the added heat of yet another device in my room

[tranquil night]

if you're in korea you can just play at a pc cafe and then its not your computer anyways... i think they have pc cafes at some places in other countries as well

[viscid axle]

Bold of you to assume league players leave their houses

[hexed quiver]

Lmao just quit the riot cult. Why bother ? People have just mainstream opinion that riot gives and won't think about it. It's just apple cult all over again.

[dense breach]

"i dont follow the mainstream culture, im so hip and cool"

[hexed quiver]

The guy who quit school to get silver will tell you you're wrong without even having an education

[upper kestrel]

it's called an addiction

in my case not even to league, just being competitive

[hexed quiver]

Same, but they're so many more interesting to be competitive in IRL.

When you're just focus on league you can't be better elsewhere (for me at least)

[upper kestrel]

I don't disagree, but league is easier access

and getting the competitive itch out of me helps me focus on other things

[tranquil night]

there are way better games than league to be competitive in

[tranquil night]

maybe this is the push we need to get them outside

[viscid axle]

After all these years inside they would get sunburnt in seconds

[keen rapids]

In Korea they require your social security number to play, and if you get caught using someone else’s account it is a real crime.

Getting caught and banned there is infinitely worse than any other country. The stigma follows you to your personal life. And if you convince someone else to give their account to you after getting banned, you are breaking the law.

[tranquil night]

im familiar with the system i've played on the korean server before, my point was not about it being easier to cheat because it isn't your own pc, but that you don't have to worry about your own hardware or security irt vanguard

the system works well over there but that doesn't mean it isn't annoying to use or would be easily implemented in other regions

[hexed quiver]

Dev article kinda funny tho. Source from them ofc : "we can have all you're data already it's not a spyware" later down the faq, "we can't see if you're cheating using server data only and the client acts more like and athoritarian model" make you up your mind in your own faq ffs.

[slow totem]

I could be missing what you're saying here but isn't the point that if it was spyware, they could steal your information without all this fluff anyway - they just don't, so what they actually see isn't much

[hexed quiver]

They can already steal all my info but they can't use that to actually ban the cheater cause they said they only have access to their server data. Paradoxal isn't it ?

[slow totem]

well no, because while they could see everything on your computer if they so desired, they do not because they do not need that information and it'd be more trouble than its likely worth to go down that rabbit hole

would you rather have them sifting through your computer to ban cheaters?

from what I understand vanguard is just a more comprehensive tool that makes it harder for client-altering cheats to make it out of the PC in the first place, rather than regulating it from the server

[hexed quiver]

I mean they said they can do that, but they acts like they can't do that, then vanguard will do just that, but they pretend like vanguard won't do that cause they can already do that but also act like they can't ?

Riot logics tbh

[slow totem]

its just a trust thing at the end of the day

if you dont trust riot, thats it

[hexed quiver]

Great riot programmed you well then.

[dense breach]

Why do you distrust Riot so much?

That mindset can be literally applied everywhere

The government claims that they don't spy on you, but they definitly have the power to

Or the manufacture of your car/public transport claims that they buit a secure and reliable vehicle but we all saw what happened to Boeing

Is there a reason for why you seem to distrust Riot's words so much so that you won't even believe the data that they put out?

[slow totem]

wut, its your opinion on this - I understand not trusting companies, thats fine

this is all a personal preference thing

[limber rock]

im gonna drop in here quickly and say that, even IF, the chinese (tencent) have access to my data, they already had it ages before vanguard, and i trust them more than any american company due to better laws regarding that stuff, plus, remember one of the biggest data collectors in america, facebook, had a large breach not too long ago,which was swept under the rug, as per usual, ok bye

[upper kestrel]

no one needed you to drop in and drop your uneducated shit take, ok bye

[wild edge]

so whats the “educated” take

someone educated would know their “online privacy” is long gone by now

unless youve somehow avoided putting any information about yourself anywhere on the internet

[dense breach]

I think the most educated thing to do is to see that both sides are highly subjective and not an educational vs not discussion.

[wild edge]

theres nothing subjective about it

people are just fearmongering

[dense breach]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LY2hG-_asKU

I'm sorry I like this youtuber but WoW had such a major botting issue that was never resolved

https://twitter.com/Sarthetv/status/1738009815295918119

Sarthe (@Sarthetv) on X

A Chinese Botter showing off his Season of Discovery Bots? - I haven't confirmed this is real, but if it is... this is a problem and there's no easy solution, but something has to be done

Twitter · Dec 22, 2023, 1:33 AM

[viscid axle]

Yes but if we use this logic on league, according to the data riot gave us, scripting wasn’t really an issue on league until their source code got leaked

[dense breach]

I know we are saying that 2% isn't a lot but this past month we have 60 million games played

If we only take 2%, that's 1 million games that were scrippted/botted

Not including the bot games that are probably 99% botted and the normal games

[viscid axle]

Yes but that’s why we need to talk in %, we also have to take into account that league is the biggest game in the world so there is also a lot more incentive for people to try and create scripts for it, so I would argue riot was actually doing quite a good job of keeping the amount of scripters to a minimum

[dense breach]

https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/bltf68ba4543e674716/5eb1c5393e5c864bda8a4e5e/02_Games_Played_with_Cheaters.png

https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/blt89decfe2cb569170/5eb1c53a157d9a47187f9a86/07_Botting_Accounts_and_Botting_Reports_by_Queue.png

From these two graphs seems like Riot had a 4 year streak where scripting were kept at a 0.5% rate, but had major issues before those years

From 2018-2020, the scripting percentage was 0.5, but 2022 the scripting percentage is 2%. So seems like there has been an increase of scripters. I'm not claiming that League's anticheat was failing due to the low sample size, but I think we should note that the scripting rate did increase.

Secondly, from the years of 2018-2020 altough the scripting rates has been at it's lowest. However, the botting percentage is absurdly high. I don't even think it's an unfair assumption to believe that botting ratio's are going to be much different today (just goto any co op vs ai and play with 4 leveling bots).

[dense breach]

I want to believe that Riot is doing a good job, but compared to what data is 2% good or bad?

Sure we can say it is small and that Riot is doing a good job, but how are we sure that this is actually above industry standard?

[viscid axle]

I don't think industry standard matter too much, seeing that riot has one of the biggest competitive games, thus they are able to set the standard.
I think what we can read from this data is that intrusive software like vanguard is absolutely not needed to combat scripters. 1 in 50 games with a scripter isn't that bad, all you would have left is the botting issue, which in my opinion can be killed by making ranked pay-to-play

[dense breach]

According to http://www.vacbanned.com/view/statistics, there are 3406775 banned players and 179333553 total players. We can use this to make a lowball estimate on the likelyhood of having a cheater in your game.
p=3406775/179333553
P(no cheaters in match)=(1−p)^10
P(at least one cheater)=1−(1−p)^10
Percentage=P(at least one cheater)×100%
or about 17.45% chance of having atleast one cheater per csgo match

[viscid axle]

And let's not forget that the only reason their anti-cheat software is failing right now is because they failed to secure their source-code

[dense breach]

But the anticheat has failed in the past without their source code leaking

Also I don't think the pay to play model is a realistic solution to Riot's issue

[viscid axle]

let's not forget that riot changed the client because the old one had some security issues

Also seeing that riot (and other companies) are always trying to improve their anti-cheat it's only logical that the amount of cheaters slowly decreases

[viscid axle]

Why not? The entire argument everyone is making is that they want an competitive ranked environment. Why would spending 20$ to play ranked and making the bar for scripters and smurfs accounts much higher be an issue? Most games already require you to pay in order to play them, so I don't see why riot wouldn't do this

You can keep unranked free to play in order to let newer players get a taste of league, just get rid of the incentive for people to buy (cheap) botted accounts

[narrow badge]

just link ranked to phone numbers like they do with clash

[dense breach]

I'll just agree to disagree, I think you are cooking too much lmfao

[dense breach]

Didn't Overwatch 2 get major backlash for that?

[upper kestrel]

y'all using data from riot, as if riot has never misrepresented data in the past

[hushed bough]

pookie thinks

if you no like, no play
if you no care, play

[dense breach]

based answer

Yall can laugh at us after we get hacked or something lol

[hushed bough]

on more pressing matters, im not able to join akali main server the invite says im unable to join

[dense breach]

That's weird?

I dm'd you the server link hopefully it works

[viscid axle]

Phone numbers can be spoofed

Although I do agree it would be a better then having no verification at all

[marsh pasture]

is it only for anticheating?

or for smurfs too? like playing from different devices?

[viscid axle]

Both, because you can't run vanguard in a vm it will most likely kill the botting too

[placid bluff]

riot doesnt give a flying fuck about smurfs

honestly i'm amazed microshit isnt paying riot for taking the game out of linux altogether... no wine/lutris, no VMs... you're stuck with keeping a 50gb partition with windows and league for dualbooting it

[unreal fulcrum]

they get caught in the crossfire for this considerably, they do care. not many people are going to take the time to hand-level accounts anymore as vanguard is also targeting the leveling bots, as well.

[dense breach]

Smurfs kill greatly reduce the smurfing scene

[limber rock]

kinda yikes from me there, calling my opinion uneducated without any evidence/argument against it is very childish
https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/28/23481786/meta-fine-facebook-data-leak-ireland-dpc-gdpr
vanguard is also regulated by various privacy laws depending on regions, supposedly riot is separating tencent outside of china (albeit not sure if its trustworthy)
i personally study cybersecurity dearly, i would consider YOU uneducated by thinking your data isnt already out in some server in the US/CN

[limber rock]

mere 276M for all that leaked information

are you ever gonna go to china? do you visit 100% chinese specific websites or apps? why should you care if they have a small grain of your data, if they already do from the beginning you started using any application mildly related to the chinese

i trust riot more than any other company with their kernel level anticheat regarding security, considering they also post poned it as long as possible to perhaps not stir an outbreak too early

[limber rock]

small side note, he worked on an MMO which does not really have any wildly technological cheaters and mainly deals with autofarmers, unlike a highly competitive MOBA with quick decisions

[limber rock]

your data is already sold LONG ago, Google Ad Service, chance you're also using chrome or even worse case operagx

[gritty slate]

data theft is not the concern.

[limber rock]

then what do people complain about?

[dense breach]

The main concern is if Vangaurd is comprimised then the hackers has control over your pcs

There are other minor concerns which hinge on being tin foil conspiracies

[limber rock]

ah thanks, thats a more reasonable response, i still would not panic this much as valorant didnt have much knock on wood yet

[dense breach]

Agreed, it really just comes down to subjective opinion

[placid bluff]

as i mentioned earlier, my personal concern is complete nuking of support for one of the 3 OS ecosystems on the market. i can hope riot is competent enough to not have vanguard get hacked and blow up half the playerbase, but their media posts arent very confidence-boosting with them avoiding the subject or being vague

at least we're in a slightly better position than valorant players, since we don't have to be the betatesters for it

[gritty slate]

Valo playerbase is peanuts compared to LoL. The target on Vanguards back goes up exponentially the second its released for LoL.

30 riot devs (lol cant believe they bragged about that) defending millions of PCs against thousands of bad actors.

[limber rock]

i would argue otherwise
https://sullygnome.com/game/Valorant/compare/56268_3_7410_48815_26989

sure these are twitch statistics, but it towers over other shooters, which in itself is a very famous genre

[gritty slate]

buddy.... we're talking 15 mil Valo players vs 180 mil LoL players

its peanuts

and that valo number is all time. Valo has like 700k daily.. LoL has like 20M daily

[limber rock]

news about vanguard releasing to league was way before this announcement, and was expected, if it was this bad, cheaters would've found ways long ago, remember it was in the phillipines too as well as recently PBE

cheaters/bad actors

[gritty slate]

what do you mean? Valorant still has cheaters.

[limber rock]

cheaters, most people argue against vanguard regarding the data/vulnerabilities to harm other devices, it is still way more effective than what packman has been doing for the past few years

[viscid axle]

It’s also a lot more harmfull then packman

[gritty slate]

You said cheaters. I said security

and cheating isnt the concern either. Vanguard being compromised and 150M PCs being compromised IS. You think bad actors saw the announcement and were like "lets try to hack it right now BEFORE its released to 150 million more PCs!" That makes total sense...

Again, Vanguard being implemented for LoL will 10x the target on its back. 700k is a lot. 20 Million is a lot more.

[limber rock]

you do realize that valorant is still a very large honeypot for these types of people? its been talked about for years since valorant came out that "it will compromise security" or whatever, yet were still here with nothing

28M people is still 28M people and computers

a lot of people store credit cards on their PCs, tokens for crypto wallets on their PCs, yet, nothing has seemed to happen since 2020, and i would've expected for something to happen in 2020 due to the pandemic

[viscid axle]

If you want to argue that riot’s security is fool-proof, then that is fine, but I think you’ll also have to take into consideration that the source code of league and packman has been leaked over a year ago, the same can easily happen to vanguard

[gritty slate]

pandemic literally has nothing to do with it. And its STILL peanuts. And other Kernel level ACs HAVE been compromised. Ask Genshin Impact. Oh... and Riot literally being compromised LAST YEAR

Good for you, if you trust 30 riot devs, probably like 10 of which have been writing code for 5 years or less. And another 15 have 0 training in security. But hey, they know cheaters....

[limber rock]

im not gonna argue here anymore lmao, should've expected it from the wildly uneducated "your opinion is shit", its so onesided fully against the anticheat and its like talking to a brick wall, if you distrust riot so much, dont play the game?, you people will literally forget about vanguard as with every other "bad update", dont ping me here anymore as i see arguing abt this futile

afterall i was gonna say one thing, just defended myself against someone ignorant

[gritty slate]

Bro, you're the one blindly trusting 30 people to install something with kernel level access on your PC. You're the one making willfully ignorant arguments and then changing every time you're challenged because you cant back it up. The one thats "wildly uneducated" here is you. And you're spreading that dangerous misinformation like the plague.

[limber rock]

one last thing, riot being compromised last year, was due to social engineering and human error not software error, anyway thats it, nice talking with y'all

[gritty slate]

And that cant ever happen again? lol

[viscid axle]

Social engineering is still a form of hacking and is actually the cause of a lot of leaks, so vanguard is just as susceptible to social engineering as packman was

And I believe all opinions are welcome here, you shouldn’t feel discouraged of voicing your opinion because some people here tend to personal attack others (not that that is ok)

[dense breach]

How many times are you going to say this and I have to tell you that you are wrong?

Kernel AC has never been compromised, the Genshin situation was not their AC getting hacked but a program acting like a part of Genshin Kernel module

No Genshin players pcs were touched, it's just a program that acted like it was Genshin

If you want to make the argument that kernel AC can potentially be compromised then that's a fair opinion, but let's stick to the facts

[gritty slate]

Yes... It was. It was a hacked version of a driver used in GI's kernel AC. That was code-signed AS GI... Just because it was installed outside of GI does not mean GI was not compromised. They took the GI driver, and used it to get kernel access, bypassing antivirus services, for the rest of their stack to run. That's a massive security breakdown by Genshin. I didn't say "ask Genshin Impact players" I said "ask Genshin Impact"

"Stick to the facts." read the full report.

https://www.trendmicro.com/en_ph/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html

[dense breach]

"Genshin Impact does not need to be installed on a victim’s device for this to work; the use of this driver is independent of the game."

The anti cheat isn't compromised, repurposed parts of the anti cheat is being used to hack other pcs.

No hackers are getting your Genshin impact anti cheat and turning it against your PC.

[gritty slate]

Which is still a massive security breakdown by Genshin. How are you not getting that??

[dense breach]

It's bad that it is happening but the Genshin impact AC isn't compromised

[dense breach]

That's a different argument being made and I agree it's bad.

But the claim that you made earlier, I disagree with.

[gritty slate]

Other people being able to use your drivers for purposes you didn't intend is a massive security flaw. If that happened with a vanguard driver, it would absolutely be catastrophic. Regardless of if it itself was compromised or not, they left a massive security hole in their Kernel AC that was taken advantage of.

If they didn't have a Kernel AC, there would be no security hole

[sharp brook]

Not really care since you can use VM to play League

[limber rock]

Pretty sure vanguard completely removes that option no?

[sharp brook]

what can vanguard do

you can have the VM's kernel

[upper kestrel]

I really wish that people who don’t know shit would stop typing and thinking they do

No, bypassing vanguards anti vm protection is no easy task

[sharp brook]

or just get a trash pc to play league only

[dense breach]

No one will arguing that happening is bad

All I'm saying is that you are making claims that aren't based on actual proof

Other people being able to use your drivers for purposes you didn't intend is a massive security flaw. If that happened with a vanguard driver, it would absolutely be catastrophic. Regardless of if it itself was compromised or not, they left a massive security hole in their Kernel AC that was taken advantage of.
Yes, all this true.

other Kernel level ACs HAVE been compromised. Ask Genshin Impact.
This is not however

Can it be compromised? Obviously, but it has yet to happen yet.

[gritty slate]

you cant. vanguard prevents Virtualization. Its the whole reason Valo, now LoL, will not be playable on Linux

[sharp brook]

but playable on mac

[gritty slate]

because they ported the Client to Mac 10 years ago. If they hadnt done it then, MacOS would be in the same place as linux rn... SoL

[gritty slate]

does it matter? it was a lapse in security BY the GI team that enabled that ransomware to even be possible. Proving someone doesnt even have to hack it for it to be a massive security concern. All thats come from this convo is there are now 2 potential avenues possible for security concerns by Vanguard... It being hacked (because of vulnerabilities left by Riot), and Riot just leaving vulnerabilities so that you can just use it for whatever you want with kernel access.

None of this helps the "Vanguard is safe and a good idea" argument lol

[dense breach]

Just didn't like strange claims being made that was based on the GI situation

[astral saffron]

I just got a warning in lobby telling me that "my computer is ready for vanguard to be added"

i guess the chinese spyware anti cheat that will work 100% of the times that has full access to your PC is going to be added soon

[outer nexus]

so it will be next update right?

when is this dropping cuz im uninstalling by then

[outer nexus]

how much time we got left in na then

kk

ty

[hushed bough]

reading this with 15 tabs open in opera...

[smoky lantern]

So i looked at the profiles of the vanguard post on the front page of the reddit and the amount of people that is complaining about it that also play a game with kernel access is legit concerning. Don’t think people know what it is and just fallen to the fear mongering.

[sharp brook]

ye, imagine watching prons and Riot know

[dusky wind]

Love when people talk about riot being owned by China and then using opera

[dense breach]

Can't help it, Opera doesn't kill my rams when I play games

[viscid axle]

Just download more ram

[tranquil night]

The only solution is to only play single player games

[mint schooner]

firefox exists

[dense breach]

True, everyone who is upset about Vanguard should just play Dota 2 instead of complaining

[mint schooner]

Sorry I assumed that by saying "can't help it" you'd want another option 🤷‍♂️

[dense breach]

Seems like csgo is having major cheating issues rn and lots of the playerbase are demanding for change

and apparently a couple of csgo content creators are quitting

I wonder if Valve will do anythig

[upbeat locust]

Every single fps game has a major cheating issue

[dense breach]

I wonder what Overwatch does

I know they have cheaters but they generally don't seem to have as big of an issue as other fps games

[upbeat locust]

1. Cuz they got shields and abilities to hit ppl thru walls or corners so aimbotting is generally not a big problem

2. Is a dead game no 1 cares as much

[dense breach]

Have you ever played Overwatch?

[upbeat locust]

Is a ded game not cuz of the game, is a ded game cuz of blizzard

[dense breach]

2nd point is whatever, but the first point makes no sense

[upbeat locust]

So ur the one that never played overwatch

[dense breach]

That's like a description by someone who's never played Overwatch lmfao

What are you playing Junkrat or something

[upbeat locust]

Ok so in other games u kill ppl with a gun and u need vision on them to click their bodies or head

And they generally die in 1-2 hits in thr head

[dense breach]

I think you are confusing r6 with Overwatch LMFAO

[dense breach]

Right?

[upbeat locust]

In overwatch, u can shield ppl and the ppl can hit the cheaturs without getting 2 tapped

Or maybe a tank that can tank more than 5 seconds of dmg to the head kills the cheating dps with any means

[dense breach]

If the aimbotting cheater is perma targeting the tank, Im going to die from laughter

[upbeat locust]

Its still a "problem" but its not as big as a problem as it can be countered

Unlike other games where u cant do anything to the cheater beside dying to them on sight

Also most cheap aimbots just target whatever is closest to them

[dense breach]

See actually valid points

Unlike whatever you were talking about before LMFAO

[dense breach]

Like you are literally explaining Overwatch hahahaha

[mint schooner]

Not sure if they ever fixed anything but it was a major problem like 3 months ago. Bunch of cheaters in high elo and all over the ladder blatantly cheating

[proud sapphire]

Reading this thread is just depressing.

[slow totem]

yeah

[azure compass]

yeah

[dense breach]

https://youtu.be/nk6aKV2rY7E?si=oYO85V4QiRicnL5J&t=180

I thought the china owns riot = danger was like some niche reddit/discord opinion

Like if you are going to talk about the dangers of Vangaurd, actually focus on the real issues??

[hexed quiver]

Bad

[sharp brook]

You wanna bet peopel would still script even after Vanguard is out

[sharp brook]

so vanguard solves nothing

so what is their excuse of adding root kit to your pc

[rose zinc]

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good here. While it won't outright eliminate cheating in LoL, it will make it a lot harder and we'll probably be seeing a lot less of it in the game.

[limber rock]

if it decreases 1/15 games of league have scripters to 1/30, i think its still worth

[tranquil night]

p sure vac is one of the only non kernel ac still about in popular games but cs has always been rife with cheaters

[green egret]

The issue with Overwatch cheaters is that many of them are very bad, so they could never actually rank up besides with their hacks (which are mainly aim hacks). Eventually they would get stuck because their game sense is bad.

If there are hackers in higher elos, they usually get shut down quickly because of streamers.

OW2 still has a bunch of cheating issues, but the Devs doesn't really do anything to combat it because as people have said, their game is not in a good spot. Their main focus currently is trying to grab attention again before they even work on the actual system 💀.

[warm plume]

bye bye league of legends

[cursive meteor]

?

[oak bolt]

"bUt I dOnt HaVe anYthiNg tO hiDe, I doNt CaRe if I haVe maLware in mY coMpuTer"

[wild edge]

Fearmongering

[white temple]

vanguard takes screenshots of your screen and sends them to their server to analyse, this screenshot will also include all overlays software like discord chats in case they were opened at that time

[astral saffron]

this is a very good opportunity to harass the higher ups to be honest

[tacit stream]

You got proof of that? I want to believe you but that’s a first I hear it I want to know more

[dense breach]

Whether it's true or not, doesn't matter. Vanguard has so much more access then just screenshots lmfao

[azure compass]

I've heard and seen a video where apparently vanguard broke someones league and group of other people too

is it fixed and am I able to play the game normally?

[dense breach]

Anyways from the thread where this info was leaked here's what I learned.

They only take screenshots of your valorant window/the desktop valorant is on, it's fairly normal and not illegal. If you draw anything over valorant then obviously they want to know?
Why is anyone surprised and this was never a secret, this isn't the first AC nor the last AC that takes screenshots.
Faceit does it, PUBG does it.
(BattlEye as well)

not sure if u are new here but ac have been taking screenshot since decades. perhaps u young and dont know this, and ur other posts indicate you probably are. but nothing new

What vested interest, he's actually right, everyone knows ACs collect information that help them better know if you're cheating or not. Vanguard info tracking is light compared to EAC FYI.
Show me a binary data containing anything else than a jpeg from valorant region being sent to their server and I will personally send you half my fortune.

Tldr; in the beginning there was a lot of fearmongering about how it is illegal or whatever but the reality is that it's nothing new.

Just another low effort baiter who just spews low effort messages

[azure compass]

sooo vanguardf works fine and wont break my pc or game?

Im on windows 11 btw

[dense breach]

i never said that lmfao

[azure compass]

thats why im asking smh

[dense breach]

imo Vanguard is probably working fine for most people

But when I got my new pc, I had to goto settings to let Vangaurd work

[azure compass]

ok thx Im on practice tool and everything loaded fine with the new patch

I think Im good surely I can play ranked now without issues

[hot shore]

everything warks fine to me

also funny how xerath wr fell

[frank torrent]

I haven't had much of a difference with vanguard being added.

client's a little slow but that might be because I am playing arena at the moment, so its lobby is a little scuffed

[dull vault]

win 11 break itself

[white temple]

what i said was not wrong im just informing people

[dense breach]

You are wrong for trying to create a false narrative that Vanguard is uniquely invasive or problematic

[white temple]

i never said that

[hexed quiver]

Fun challenge, type "1989 tiananmen square" in league

[astral saffron]

i spammed it in a smurf and got chat restricted

[tranquil night]

u get chat restricted for spamming any message

[pale flint]

"spam" hmmm, have you thought about that is why?

[astral saffron]

its a smurf anyway why should i care

[heady mural]

China good

[kindred quarry]

keeps causing BSOD

[plain charm]

rip ur kernel [thats a joke, ur windows wouldnt boot at all]

[kindred quarry]

i think ive fixed it

but not before being placed in low priority q bc vanguard crashed my fucking computer

[dense breach]

That's why you always test in practice tool 💀

[astral saffron]

is vanguard safe to download now

[south onyx]

Was there even an update for vanguard ? I don't install it till something get updated. Dont want to get problems with my drive again

[cursive meteor]

It auto downloads if you open league does it not?

[tranquil night]

it depends what your issue was

[dapper spade]

Vanguard is safe as much as Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and other apps. : )

[viscid axle]

That’s incorrect, vanguard has much more access to your pc as any of those apps

[dapper spade]

It was a dark joke

But you can mute and remove some access of vanguard through settings

It does allow you to play game anyway

[viscid axle]

And how would you remove some of vanguard’s access?

[tacit stream]

how

and does league still work if you turn those on

[dapper spade]

ye I'll tell ya in dm lol just don't tell n body cuz they be watchin duh

[ancient forge]

half of the league player base already has kernel level anticheat outside of vanguard

my only issue with vanguard is that it has bricked my pc before but that was pretty early in vanguard access, or false flags. i do cheat in other games (gta 5 menu) and wonder if vanguard would flag even plutonium.

[heady mural]

i like

[dense breach]

I heard it could happen

[tranquil night]

After playing a bit of cs2 I’ve come to the conclusion that vanguard is good and valve needs it too

[kindred quarry]

vanguard is the cause of all my recent issues and i fucking hate it worthless and useless program

[tranquil night]

try playing a game where every other match has blatant cheaters and see if u still hate functional anticheats lole

[viscid axle]

I've played that game, and I can tell you, it wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be

[tranquil night]

it rlly is lol

its a 50/50 you get in a game with a super low level account on your team or enemy team and they either subtly or blatantly cheat

[viscid axle]

you're coping

[jagged path]

Vanguard isn't bad, i don't really keep sensitive data on my pc so i don't care. What I do care about is - I don't think riot is capable of making it without issues

[tranquil night]

how is it cope man its just objective that without better ac theres way more cheaters

[viscid axle]

It's objective that 50% of your games had a cheater? Pretty sure riot's data doesn't verify that
And yes, ofcourse vanguard will lower the amount of cheaters, but it's not worth the cost

[tranquil night]

well cs isnt a riot game so their data wouldnt have anything to do with it

[viscid axle]

I never spoke of cs

[tranquil night]

i did ???

[viscid axle]

"50/50"

[tranquil night]

that was the point why respond to something you didnt even read

[tranquil night]

u need it translated or what

[viscid axle]

You reacted to someone talking about vanguard, so save to assume we're talking about league at that point?

[tranquil night]

vanguard isnt only on league and either way still applicable in that kernel ac like vanguard drastically reduces cheaters, its just more noticable in an fps like val or cs

[viscid axle]

Yes I've never said an extremely intrusive ac wouldn't reduce cheaters, but league never had a time where 50% of your games were filled with cheaters

[tranquil night]

even if it did you wouldnt kno but also hyperbole

[viscid axle]

Soo we're using riot's data when it's in our favour but denying it when it's not?

[tranquil night]

?

what are u talking about man

[viscid axle]

Riot's data clearly shows there were never times in which 50% of the games were filled with cheaters

[tranquil night]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole

[slow totem]

my climb to diamond this season had almost every game with 2 or more accounts that were like this, whether they were just smurfs or legitimately cheating I do not know but this was consistent

[oak bolt]

lying about statistics is not a hyperbole lmao

[tranquil night]

Where did I say that the statistics show 50% of games have a cheater I would love to see

[viscid axle]

^

[tranquil night]

Saying it’s a 50/50 is clearly hyperbole and if you can’t understand that it just shows a concerning deficit in reading comprehension

[viscid axle]

Yes let's use mathematics when our maths doesn't math

And I can read perfectly fine btw, I think you need to redo your class on statistics though

[oak bolt]

I bet you get called out for lying alot and your go-to is to call it a hyperbole LMAO

[tranquil night]

You’ve gotta be like 13

[oak bolt]

Exposed for lying then going to try to call them immature

[tranquil night]

I was talking about cs (not even league) and didn’t say anything about official numbers or statistics, if you assume every time someone says “its a 50/50” they literally mean it im sorry buddy

No I just feel bad for you mostly for struggling this hard with comprehending English

[viscid axle]

If you detach meaning from words then how are we ever gonna have a conversation about anything?

[tranquil night]

If someone says “let’s hit the road” do you get a baseball bat and start smacking the street?

When someone tells you it’s raining cats and dogs do you wonder how those animals got up in the sky in the first place?

You’re either being super pedantic for no reason or genuinely don’t understand and either way it’s sad

[viscid axle]

Brother you need help

[tranquil night]

We aren’t related

[oak bolt]

You are literally linking definitions of words that you still do not understand lmao

doubling down on being a clown i see 🤡

[tranquil night]

Ur calling me a clown but I’ve never performed at a circus in my life so what are u talking about??

[oak bolt]

you're right, most clowns at least get paid, you are a broke clown xD

[tranquil night]

Ur just lying and making things up smh

[kindred quarry]

Ok but this one doesn’t

[tranquil night]

just because its not as severe in league as other games doesnt mean 10-15% of games isnt way higher than it should ever be

[dense breach]

Also seems like customs skins are safe

[astral saffron]

custom skins that show the attack range

[cursive meteor]

wdym by ths?

[astral saffron]

people can use custom skins that show attack range from turrets/champions without vanguard doing the funny

[cursive meteor]

oh lmao, because i was gonna say you can just like A click to see your auto range

[tranquil night]

https://x.com/anticheatpd/status/1792624825036403137?s=46&t=j9ClTIm0jpGCAuh1-QT75A

Anti-Cheat Police Department 🕵️ (@AntiCheatPD) on X

Vanguard has initiated a large ban wave targeting a League of Legends provider, and cheaters are just realising that this time, it includes an HWID ban.

Here is an album of their tears enjoy! https://t.co/GECWNAL19B

Twitter · May 20, 2024, 6:33 PM

Mashallah

[mint schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/maranatha-the-rapture-prophecy-gif-15590075

[old fulcrum]

My opinion:
|| If it requires you to change something on your PC from the start, no. ||

I am NOT risking BSoD

[old fulcrum]

“Break a leg!”

[dense breach]

https://levvvel.com/games-with-kernel-level-anti-cheat-software/

I never realized how many games have a kernel level ac

[unreal fulcrum]

wherever the cheats go, the ac must follow

[rose zinc]

kernel level AC really is a pretty common thing.

[cursive meteor]

bro idk if its vanguard or not, but ever since it came out ive fiound myself having ping spikes every now and then

[heady mural]

Good anticheat. I see no cheater. Doing its job

[viscid axle]

Not defending other kernel lvl ac’s (since I’m not a big fan on kernel ac’s) but ac’s other then vanguard don’t go and block random drivers on your pc

[dense breach]

From what I've understood the reason why Vangaurd will block drivers is because it is listed to be a driver that are known to be vulnerable, outdated or suspicious.

Not arguing for or against Vanguard's ability to block vulnerable drivers, but just to give insight

[viscid axle]

You should also mention that when riot is talking about “vulnerable drivers” they are talking about driver that they think might impact league of legends, not drivers that may be harmful for your pc

And riot is not an anti-virus company, they do not have a single care in the world if you have drivers that may actually be bad for you, they only care for those that might try and mess with their game

[dense breach]

No they can be for both

For example, inpoutx64.sys is a driver that is being blocked by Vangaurd but is known for being a vulnerable driver.