Vanguard Anti-cheat added to league of legends

[summer hemlock]

Will my man stop takin the bait

[carmine beacon]

true I really gotta go do shit, peace

[forest trout]

the best privacy and security over all is just do not use technology at all

[grizzled cedar]

it's like you're a hivemind of fear mongering pussies too worried to do anything in life because something bad MIGHT happen 💀

[crude garden]

this is gonna happen bro not might

[forest trout]

the thing is WHEN

[crude garden]

idk

[carmine beacon]

Wait? You're confessing the fact that you know Vanguard WILL get hacked at some point, because yes it will, but you enjoy league enough to take the risk?

Because if thats what you're saying, then you're self aware and sure, go ahead I respect that, but I value not getting hacked more, but to each their own

[summer hemlock]

(Some people play on mac)

[carmine beacon]

Their next version of anticheat will most probably be installing cameras inside your home to make sure the mouse movements are done by a human and not some robot. Its more safe so you approve of it... Right???

[crude garden]

fr XDD

[idle matrix]

i dont want vanguard added either, but man can some of you be insufferable

[summer hemlock]

Will is already slowly showing his withdrawal symtems from not fulfulling his league addiction

[carmine beacon]

I'll never recover

[summer hemlock]

Just gotta walk to the shady guy on a corner to buy a macbook and you'll be gucci

[carmine beacon]

Time to use my work mac pro

[forest trout]

but the current league uses packman anticheat which is already compromised

[summer hemlock]

I'll probably get one from my work too and was thinking the exact same thing 😂

[carmine beacon]

nah dude Vanguard will never be hacked!!

[grizzled cedar]

nobody has ever said that, you're just making shit up

[carmine beacon]

If you think it will be hacked, you should uninstall it, if you value anything on your computer then. If not, go ahead and play league

[grizzled cedar]

I think literally anything can and will be hacked, I'm not just gonna stop using my pc lol

[carmine beacon]

Yeah I don't think you get it, its good man move on from this thread

[grizzled cedar]

I could go on a walk and get stabbed, that's not going to stop be from going on walks

literally everything online will get hacked at some point in life lol

[summer hemlock]

But you probably won't walk late at night through a high-crime neighbourhood

[crude garden]

bro? u are an ape

ngl i been too patient

[carmine beacon]

Ignore @grizzled cedar hes just terminally online and will never stop being glued to league. Tencent could sell his data to China (which they do) and he'd be like "eh someone was gunna take it anyways"

[crude garden]

for real

[grizzled cedar]

Microsoft will also happily sell your data to china too lol

[forest trout]

more likely to the us

[grizzled cedar]

since they have firms in china, they will also have to give information to the Chinese government too

[summer hemlock]

Their HQ isn't in China though

[latent vector]

I love how much you guys are arguing rather than just not playing the game anymore if you don't like the anticheat 🤷

[forest trout]

the anticheat is not on live yet

[carmine beacon]

The fuck are you talking about, we're all uninstalling league?

[summer hemlock]

To be fair, if we're not gonna play the game anymore we must spend all of our freetime doing something right?

[latent vector]

Y'all would be amazing debaters like destiny

Could be your new hobby instead of league

[summer hemlock]

I'll take up your advice and move to america to become a radical trump supporter

[grizzled cedar]

as of Article 14 in the Chinese national intelligence law, U.S. companies operating in China must locally store all personal information that is collected and produced, intelligence agencies have the authority to demand this too.

So yes, Microsoft is also giving your data to china

[summer hemlock]

the data that is locally gathered in China

they can't force Microsoft to put their european data in China

[carmine beacon]

Actually legally they can't put it in China locale servers because of GDPR

[summer hemlock]

Yessir godthank european laws

[carmine beacon]

Have delt with that at work multiple times 🙃

[summer hemlock]

also our government wanted to install our entire 5g network with huawai hardware

[modern fog]

^

[crude garden]

[modern fog]

The worry from what I'm seeing basically boils down to

1. Riot mishandling our data
2. Malicious people hacking our data

I think they are valid concerns and it's not like it's a non issue. It could possible happen.
But my reasons for why I'm stilling going to use Vangaurd is because

1. The repercussions of what will happen (lawsuits/loss of trust) will be so much greater then the amount of free money Riot gets from skins. I highly doubt Riot wants to potential risk their money printer ips.
2. I think this is the most valid worry that I seen on this thread and everything else is just tin foil hat conspiracy. From what I'm researching, there are so many more conveniant and easier ways to hack the same information that it's basically overkill to hack Vanguard. I agree that it is a threat that Vanguard can be hacked but I would be more worried other applications/sites/whatever else that is probably already hacked.

[forest trout]

meta sold our data and peope still use facebook and still selling their data

[modern fog]

There is a 1 in a 11 million chance of your airplane crashing, but should that stop you from flying on planes? If yes, then don't ride planes like the other people who don't ride planes. But you can't get mad at other people and riot for not worrying about the miniscule chance that your plane can crash.

[forest trout]

as long as is not boeing plane

[summer hemlock]

It's not just loss from data, anyone who get's a hold over your kernel can do whatever they want with your hardware.
And I am no law expert. But when installing vanguard you agree to riot's TOS, which states that they bear no responsibility over bla bla. I don't know if it would hold up in court, but you are waving their responsibility by agreeing with TOS

[modern fog]

TOS isn't foolproof lol

You can't be like "you signed our tos that said you can become our little data slave" therefore we hold no responsibilities

[summer hemlock]

I know, but it isn't a good sign that they are doing whatever they can to shift responsibility to the costumer

[crude garden]

bro thats literally what tos is like wym

[summer hemlock]

And like I said, idk how that would go in a court. But signing it can mean that they wear no responibility if there is no law stating otherwise

[modern fog]

Laws vary by jurisdiction, but generally, certain liabilities, especially those related to negligence, intentional misconduct, or other forms of unlawful behavior, cannot be waived through a terms of service agreement.

[summer hemlock]

yes but you would have to prove they were negligence, and without seeing their code that might be impossible to state

[crude garden]

exactly

[modern fog]

Selling your data isn't malicious?

[crude garden]

yes it is?

[summer hemlock]

Also I'm not from USA, so laws here are different. But I'm not aware of any law in either US of EU that protects users from installing software that has access to kernel level

[modern fog]

So TOS isn't going to protect Riot

[summer hemlock]

Most companies just pay a reltively small fine and move on while keep saelling your data

[modern fog]

Interesting I had no idea, can you name some of these companies

[summer hemlock]

Meta and other (mainly US companies) basically fund the EU by stealing data and paying fines and not change anything

[forest trout]

i think you mean privacy policy over tos because it is the first thar explains what happens to your data

[summer hemlock]

Meta, Alphabet, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon?

[modern fog]

From what I'm seeing it's debated on whether or not the DMA is effective or not, but the punishment for breaking the law can result in threat of fines or even forcing companies to sell of parts of their business to operate in Europe.

Violations of these regulations could lead to fines of up to 10% of a company's annual global revenue, and repeat offenders could face fines up to 20% or even forced business divestitures

[summer hemlock]

I don't know the fine details, but that sounds a bout right

No company would be forced to sell though, since that would scare any US investor away from europe

[modern fog]

If you think so, but we can agree that they haven't gotten away scott free, yes?

[summer hemlock]

Yes they did get a fine slap on the wrist

[modern fog]

and more

So if Riot is hold accountable, they won't get away for free. Agreed?

[latent vector]

Riot is a big enough company that something like this will effect them far greater than just the fines.

Especially since they are a chinese company and depend on having a good reputation and how americans treat chiense companies

[summer hemlock]

If there would be a breach in vanguard, and a 3rd party would use that access to sell data or do any other things, riot won't be responsible for the actions of that hacker. they would only be responsible for allowing that breach to excist

[modern fog]

and the biggest difference between Riot and those companies is that they are data companies they need to survive off of selling data. Riot makes most of their profit from cosmetics. Riot can transition into a data company but they would risk losing their consumer base.

[summer hemlock]

Riot and having a good reputation? I believe anyone who plays league would say otherwise 🙂

[latent vector]

Good security?

[summer hemlock]

They had their source code leaked not even a year ago

[modern fog]

What big company hasn't tho lol

[summer hemlock]

Companies have leaks, but your source code is something you would protect in one of your deepest layers of security, since it is literally the heart of your product

And 3rd parties managed to get into that layer of security, vanguard can't be much better protected

[modern fog]

Fun fact, tf2 and csgo has had their source code leaked as well

[summer hemlock]

Aand do tf2 and csgo have kernel access to your system?

[modern fog]

I thought the question was about how well protected source codes are supposed to be

[summer hemlock]

Yes it shows how persistant hackers are, especially when there is a lot of money to be gained

[idle matrix]

i thought the source code that was leaked was just client source code

thats why we are seeing stuff like lobby droppers

not server side stuff

[modern fog]

From what I'm reading about the source code of league, it's mostly legacy stuff

[idle matrix]

i feel like it was server side stuff then we would be seeing a lot more in game exploits

[idle matrix]

yea i think ur right on this

[modern fog]

anyways the point was, having your source code leaked is common in the video game industry. Should it happen? of course not. But the bar for having a good security shouldn't be "you must never be hacked" or "your source code should never be hacked"

[summer hemlock]

The bar of having good security is:

1. Make the attacking platform as small as possible to prevent being attacked in the first place
2. When you have a security breach, make sure all the data is split up in different layers of security so the damage is minimalized

Riot completely dissregards the 2nd when it comes to the PC's of their costumers

[grizzled cedar]

i just found something on github claiming to be vanguard source code lol, posted by an official riot vanguard account 3 years ago

[modern fog]

I remember on this thread some of them were saying Vanguard should be open source

[grizzled cedar]

https://github.com/RiotVanguard/Vanguard

im not sure if it actually is? but its just what i found

[summer hemlock]

People where saying the only way to know riot isn't doing any shady stuff is for them to make their code opensource

[modern fog]

Nah go back and read it lol, they were admamant on having Vanguard being open source so that it will be easier to build on top of it

Because anyone can work on improving it

[grizzled cedar]

https://github.com/RiotVanguard this looks pretty legit icl

[summer hemlock]

This account was active for a full 2 days in the last 4 years, doesn't seem too legit to me xd

[modern fog]

Someone run this and tell me how much the ransomware will be /j

[summer hemlock]

Pretty sure Alfie would do it considering he doesn't care about the risks too much 😉

[latent vector]

Why would they post it on github and not sell it for millions?

[idle matrix]

this is an aprils fools joke btw lol

[modern fog]

No buyers

[grizzled cedar]

ah, like i said i didnt know if it was real

makes sense if thats what it was

[idle matrix]

https://twitter.com/RiotVanguard/status/1377470878313684992

[modern fog]

W Riot

[summer hemlock]

An april fools joke that still gets people 3 years after it's being made? Big W

[latent vector]

I really hope riot will actually add real troll/inting detection when they implement vanguard bc it's getting ridiculous

[summer hemlock]

They could've added that years ago without vanguard

[latent vector]

Hoping they finally fucking do

I've played 15 games and i've been inted 9 times already. Not even coping i've had 9 inters on my team and 1 game where an inter was on the enemy team.

[crude garden]

Vanguard is not necessary for this

[idle matrix]

They are HWID banning now so that will help a lot

[crude garden]

They are not

[idle matrix]

its possible to spoof ur HWID obviously but its very annoying

[latent vector]

Only hwid banning people who get caught using scripts. not trollers.

[idle matrix]

ah rip

[latent vector]

obv

I just had 4 feedback reports come in thank god

[grizzled cedar]

i feel like ive had more of these so far in s14 than i have had in the past 2 years

[latent vector]

It's been growing lately and it's so annoying

[karmic blaze]

20 time

[oak gulch]

Technically, botted accounts can be easy detected by any fucking way WITHOUT kernel access. Some games detect bots with just ingame mechanics.
And ya, how the fuck AC must to detect bot acc, where dude just programm autohotkey? Ban for ahk use?

And i still dont understand, if game THAT broken where some champs/mechanics bugged as hell, client still shit etc, WHY do u think what ALL BE FINE with vanguard?

[idle matrix]

dont think anyone ever claimed ALL will be fine after vanguard

[oak gulch]

U trust and give 24/7 kernel access to company, who make 200$ chroma and dont even try to fix a shit ton of bugs (instead they telling in tournaments which bugs u can use and which not)

[grizzled cedar]

champ bugs and client issues arent at all linked to vanguard ? and yeah nobody claimed all will be fine

[oak gulch]

Cause if they cant make simple things like this work, they WILL fucked up with vanguard and 24/7 access WILL make fuck up even worse

[grizzled cedar]

theyre ENTIRELY different teams, vanguard has been out for FOUR years and DOES work

[idle matrix]

was about to type the same

[oak gulch]

Ok

[idle matrix]

i literally dont want vg in lol, but some of these arguments being made against vg just dont make sense

[latent vector]

Why are yall still arguing lmao

[sterile ravine]

This is true

About 90% of the arguments I've read about Vanguard or heard about in other videos don't make any sense at all. The only thing that does make sense is not liking that it needs to be on in the background for you to play the game, and that it is a kernel level anticheat.

Vanguard WILL work against botting because a majority of them are played on virtual machines. As we all know, VMs aren't allowed with Vanguard. Emulated keystrokes through programs are also detectable.
If you're trying to say that people have mechanical botting that input controls, then that's something that'd be harder to produce, thereby increasing the work needed to create the level 30 account as a product.

[raw dragon]

does it also block the third party software that automatically plays bot games for you to level up?

just any kind of third party im guessing

since it'll block custom skins aswell

[sterile ravine]

Yeah pretty much, because that's what scripts are

[raw dragon]

rip lol markets (fuck them)

if its a permanent solution to botting its actually really effective because yes they started banning a lot of bot acocunts but if someone can just int placements and go buy a new account for not even a dollar it is and was messed up

so most people would actually have to care about the games they play well best they can do is to buy handlevels which increases the price a lot and most wouldnt pay for that more than once

[modern fog]

That's so hard to implement lmfao

[summer hemlock]

Adding vanguard to league doesn’t make it easier to implement it

[summer hemlock]

You still haven’t answered what your experience in the IT field is 🙂

[modern fog]

If it's so easy to implement, how do you think this "real troll/inting detection" will detect these players

[severe spire]

There can never be a trolling detector

Unless u want everyone who has a bad game get permad

[raw dragon]

its more of a third party software detector so I doubt it

that a normal player would get caught in vanguard for trolling

well atleast thats not how it worked in valorant

[latent vector]

There is a difference between a bad game and a person who sits afk in a bush because 'sup was bad' or 'jg was bad' or 'midlane no walk'

[severe spire]

So perma everyone who sits in a bush

[summer hemlock]

I never said it is easy. I don’t have a lot of coding experience. All I’m saying is that vanguard makes no difference in detecting trollers/inters

[modern fog]

Vanguard isn't made to detect trollers and inters, no one said that

[grizzled cedar]

the old fnc strat

[raw dragon]

people will always find new ways to troll a game whatever you implement

they won't run it down mid but they will not help you on purpose, steal your cs/xp and never show up to fights etc

and you can't really call that trolling because you can't know (as someone who examines the report)

theres always a chance that person actually thinks that its the right play and gets banned for being bad at the game

[modern fog]

^baus

The current Riot auto ban system falsely perm banned Baus even tho he didn't deserve the ban

[latent vector]

Bauss gets banned off of games he literally is inting in. Bauss just gets unbanned bc he's a streamer and popular.

Bauss dying 4 times for a wave in the first 10 minutes is surely not inting.

[raw dragon]

he isn't inting to troll the game though

[wheat hollow]

Wait so I’m confused. Cuz i read a couple post and all I read was “vanguard bad. Hackers do stuff undetected.”

[modern fog]

https://youtu.be/DRMbe836WnU?si=6M2UcoUl61pGN3ea

I can't speak for all of his bans but for this specific ban, I don't believe that the auto detection was working as intended

[modern fog]

Ignoring all the stuff I consider tin foil conspiracies here is a tldr of the arguments @wheat hollow

[wheat hollow]

[modern fog]

And I also saw some people asking about why a kernal anticheat and the reason for this is because most cheats are also running kernal so they will remain undetected

[ornate veldt]

baus banned me in chat for asking why he’s 4/19 on ap irelia

definitely a consistent inter but has streamer protection

[severe spire]

His mods banned u, has nothing to do with streamer protection

[thorny dirge]

It’s literally his whole thing

Its asking drututt why he’s playing ranged top

[latent vector]

Not to mention it's the most fucking unenjoyable game state when bauss makes the enemy toplaner giga fed and proceeds to do nothing to help the team unless it's soul.

They do inting sion strat into gangplank and be like 'why me one shot' when gp has 4 items at 18 minutes

He's just a player with an extremely terrible laning phase and good mid-late game macro.

[stuck spear]

Although he was targetted by Kesha in that Quinn game, doing that bad as Illaoi is a bannable offense lmao

[modern fog]

Agree to disagree then, i never felt like Baus was trying to lose the game

[grizzled cedar]

i guess it depends on peoples definitions for it? because with inting directly meaning "intentional feeding" he is 100% doing that, but he is never actively trying to lose at the same time

[ornate veldt]

i mean baus right now is playin ap jax, inted 5 times and bought dark seal (like kek?)

has there been any updates on when vanguard will be implemented?

[formal owl]

But if you ever played a game with easy anti cheat you already had a Kern lvl anti cheat same goes for Games like Aion , Arma 3 , Assassins Creed 3, Ark , Destiny 2 usw... Only diff is that Vanguard runs 24/7 / only goes online if the Game runs tho )

[severe spire]

Didn't deserve the ban

[grizzled cedar]

hey all, I don't like the idea of installing Vanguard on my PC. I have an extra HDD so I was thinking of installing a Windows on it and use it primarily for LOL. I wonder if Vanguard can access other drives/brick my main Windows from it / is there any way to prevent it. I also guess when I boot to my main Windows, Vanguard won't be running because it's installed on the other drive. Is there anything else I should do to keep myself "safe". Not saying Vanguard is unsafe, but it does pose a security and privacy risks and I would like to minimize them as much as I can. Thank you.

[severe spire]

You can't

If riot wants to do whatever they want then they can because vanguard

I think they get access to your pc

[ornate veldt]

You ultimately should just buy a clean pc to run league in that case.

or run a clean pc with no personal data on it

or play at an internet cafe

[severe spire]

Better to quit than have a pc only for league

[ornate veldt]

i also think something like this was patched with valorant...

[grizzled cedar]

damn... I might take a break for a while then. I'm also a relatively new player so no big deal I guesss 😅

thanks for the response

[modern fog]

I thought the definition was intentionally losing

Also does anyone know if Vanguard can actually just do whatever they want with your pc?

Like I get that Vanguard has kernal access, but couldn't it also just mean that they can only view your information on the kernal level

[tropic mason]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1058111383289462906/1196114733523288074/m2-res_360p.mp4?ex=65b673a7&is=65a3fea7&hm=5cde4a4b9e2664fe1c1c92b33f3553054b9bd07741dbcbad59483881a2eaa1aa&

[oak gulch]

Kernel access essentially is a rootkit. In theory, if riot (or someone who hack vanguard) want - they can mining (just for example) without any trace in system. So yes, they can

[heavy mantle]

if vanguard means less people on this game, sign me up.

the less amount of people from the league community I have to tolerate, the better.

[summer hemlock]

Vanguard isn’t gonna decrease the toxicity in league, however if you don’t want to tolerate the league community you can just stop playing yourself..

[summer hemlock]

Yea, they can see and do everything with your pc

[dark shell]

didnt the garena server do it? like installing miners on all the peoples pcs?

[oak gulch]

I never used garena

[modern fog]

Yep, tho Garena as a company is just completely scummy

and also a completely separate entity from Riot

[dark shell]

well they were the one hosting riot servers no?

[latent vector]

They were hosting the oceania servers for a bit I think until riot started to officially host them.

[modern fog]

Yeah Garena is completely out now

[modern fog]

They did much more then that

https://youtu.be/MQf5uGJnfNU?si=ivitP5_xEKpvQsqU

The Sea servers had their own little ecosystem that Riot couldn't touch

[forest trout]

One month to learn Linux

[raw dragon]

EA copycats

[forest trout]

ok th e leak is real

https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752654-Minimum-and-Recommended-System-Requirements-League-of-Legends

(WARNING: Win 7, 8, and 8.1 will no longer be supported starting with patch 14.4 on February 22, 2024)```

[modern fog]

Good change, from what I've heard the older windows are much more suspectable to attacks since they are no longer supported and most of the player base are using the updated windows. If they are still using the older model, you can easily upgrade to Windows 10 anyways.

[forest trout]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro Oct 14, 2025

[modern fog]

Don't worry Windows 11 is free as well

[forest trout]

nah only if tpm 2.0

[modern fog]

Don't most pcs alreay have that?

ig if you are running a potato from 7 years ago

then probably not, but at that point get a new pc LOL

[forest trout]

not only league is adding spyware with a rootkit but also pushing programmed obsolescence of devices

[forest trout]

minimal requeriments lists hardware of 2010 but it ask to use OS that are launched in 2015-2021

[modern fog]

You just mean launched in 2015 right?

[forest trout]

yes win 10 was released 2015 and win 11 in 2021

[modern fog]

Right but why list the recommended os?

The AMD: Ryzen 3 1200 was released 2017

Which is the recommended spec for your cpu, so by your logic it's 2010-2017

[forest trout]

recommended os is only win 11

[modern fog]

Right so if you are going to say 2015-2021 which is both the minimal and recommended os, then you should treat the hardware the same as well

[forest trout]

but is not you can check the page

[modern fog]

which is 2010-2017

[forest trout]

yes but that hardware does not support win 11

[modern fog]

You can have modern machine running older hardware

plus If your pc is 7+ years old, it's time to change pc's

A pc made in 2018 can have 2015 specs

That's a very normal and standard practice (not the specific number of years but you get the idea)

[forest trout]

not only you are enforcing players to download vanguard but now you also enforce them to buy or upgrade their os/hardware which is very bad

[modern fog]

True every triple A game that forces you to upgrade hardware is a very bad company

Curse you every annual release of COD

I can't believe you are forcing me to upgrade to a hardware that is almost 8 years old !!

[karmic blaze]

Can’t blame them since technology is growing fast

[modern fog]

It's such a normal and standard practice (because of security risks) that literally every tech company is doing but for some reason when Riot does it, it's a horrible thing

This community is so strange

[karmic blaze]

Mircosoft stop support window 7 8 8.1 so

[warped creek]

thinking a hacker bounty of $250 is gonna tempt someone when you could make a massive botnet with it and sell it for hundreds of k's if not millions

[modern fog]

I thought it scales by security risk

Yeah the max is 100k

250 is the minimum amount for revealing an exploit

[warped creek]

yea no, you could easily get far more than the max bounty for a botnet this size

i didnt even know about the ransomware that used genshins anticheat, that makes it even more likely

[modern fog]

A common misinformation going around about the genshin anticheat is that there are people who thinks the hackers is using genshin impact to install randomware. This isn't true. But rather a situation where a component of the game (the "mhyprot2.sys" driver) was repurposed by attackers as part of their ransomware.

So the malware would act like it's the legitamite anticheat to install the ransomware.

[warped creek]

alright, from my reading - mhyprot2.sys was signed, so virus can have it in payload and install when executed, without getting blocked/quarantined by AV's

[modern fog]

Yep

So it's not like the game itself was comprimised but mihoyo was mishandling it's anticheat

[warped creek]

which instead tells us that game companies dont give a flying shit about proper security and make holes in systems or lockpicks for any malware dev to use

who's going to assure me Riot handles this properly? do they have any QA or security audits in place?

[modern fog]

Considering how it's 1 company out of the hundreds if not thousands of kernal level software out there

I would argue it's the opposite

[warped creek]

considering it's a VERY popular company and their piece of software... give me examples of any other kernel-level program that is as popular

shit can and will happen, just now gitlab had a 10/10 CVE patched seemingly out of nowhere

those we can know about because they publish CVE's but riot and other game companies dont - whos gonna tell someone who didnt start (and thus update) their game for a few months to do that, because something in anticheat went very wrong

[modern fog]

Of the most popular video games there are:
Fortnite
Fall Guys: Ultimate Knockout
Halo: The Master Chief Collection
Player Unknown's Battlegrounds
Rainbow Six Siege
Apex Legends
VALORANT

As of non video game examples:
Antivirus and Security Software like Norton and McAfee Antivirus
Razer Synapse
Logitech G HUB
NVIDIA GeForce Experience
AMD Radeon Software
VPN software
System Utilities programs like CCleaner
Device Drivers programs like SATA
Virtualization Software
Firewall Software
File System Management Tools
Encryption Software

These are only the most popular for profit software that I would find

[warped creek]

Yeah, openai mentioned valorant and warzone, plus fortnite but their anticheat access level isnt known to it. Still, there is no real oversight on the kernel-level anticheats outside of the company's internal processes, and the main issue is that vanguard keeps running in background and has to start even before windows

I would really love to have my concerns about it taken away, but it's hard.

[modern fog]

It's kernal level

All of them has kernal level access

[modern fog]

Second, this is wrong Vangaurd doesn't run before Windows. They run with Windows like all Kernal level software, but they literally cannot run without Windows running lol

[modern fog]

Third, if you are scared of Kernal level then you should be scared of all Kernal level software. Which frankly, you shouldn't even be scared of because from what I'm researching there has never been an instance where a malware was installed through a video game.

[forest trout]

look what i found in some dev server

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M

[small path]

Saw that vid on my recommended yesterday. It's certainly interesting.

[modern fog]

Not finished with the video but @small path atleast you can see the reason why hardware bans are useless lmfao

[modern fog]

Alright just finished the video and thoughts: Imagine making an anticheat so good that you have to buy sketchy ass hardware from china to be able to cheat

[forest trout]

isn't all hardware from china

[modern fog]

it's sketchy hardware in general

or you buy subscriptions to cheats from random hacking forums and hope that they dont inject a hack themselves

or don't just scam you and take the money

[forest trout]

that is how lmaobox works

[modern fog]

https://youtu.be/RwzIq04vd0M?si=Z7sAkjUg-mqVxyLm&t=1210

Just spoof your hardware lmfao

Thanks to this video, I can even give you the program they used to spoof their hardware

[forest trout]

or buy mac

[modern fog]

A Kernal level ac is useful because of how difficult it is to bypass it, spoofing hardware is a simple software

the amount of cheaters actually being stopped by vangaurd is much greater then a hardware ban

Of course, using both is good. But using purely hardware bans is clearly not enough to stop cheaters

You have to be extremely dedicated and run double PC streaming setups with AI pixel cheats or have hardware cheats that are mailed to you in order to go undetected.

DMA cheats are also just not used as much anymore, I won't say it's dead but it's close.

Some of yall should actually watch and research the video before just posting them

[small path]

This is why I said early on in this thread (or maybe previous iteration?) That the point of Kernel Anti-cheat like Vanguard isn't to make cheating impossible (that's never going to happen), but to make it hard enough that the vast majority who might otherwise cheat won't bother with trying.

[ornate veldt]

https://cybernews.com/security/billions-passwords-credentials-leaked-mother-of-all-breaches/

i didn't realise that tencent was one of the most affected by data leaks XD

[grizzled cedar]

it's from Tencent QQ, a messaging app

also has records from the us government

[oak gulch]

Are u paid for defending vanguard?

[grizzled cedar]

are u paid for being stupid?

[oak gulch]

[grizzled cedar]

that article is completely unrelated to vanguard btw

so yeah, youre being stupid

[oak gulch]

Any of ur "proofs" is unrelated to vanguard

U just sit here and call everyone stupid. Thats so fun

[grizzled cedar]

so saying that vanguard has been proven to be effective due to its FOUR years of active use is unrelated to vanguard? got it

saying vanguard has proven to be effective since cheating in valorant is significantly less of an issue compared to other games that use less effective anti cheats that are still kernel level is unrelated to vanguard? got it

saying that article is unrelated to vanguard because it actually is unrelated to vanguard, it clearly stated it was from Tencent QQ, a messaging software

[oak gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/tldr-didn't-read-frieren-frieren-beyond-journey's-end-sousou-no-frieren-gif-8628636858406037666

So many words and still no any proofs. Keep being a clown dude. Everyone for sure want vanguard in every game, when devs will see vanguard come to most popular mmo game

[grizzled cedar]

where is ur proof that vanguard is this big evil thing that is gonna destroy everyone

[oak gulch]

U read thread with ass dude)

[grizzled cedar]

ur just delusional

[dense mango]

past performance is no guarantee of future results

[modern fog]

How is this related to Vanguard in any way?

[modern fog]

It's telling when there has never been an instance where a kernal anticheat was hacked

I'm sure there will be in the future, but as of right now there is no cases

[dense mango]

"I gave a serial killer the keys to my house and he hasn't broken in yet, he might in the future but as of right now he hasn't"

solid logic imo

[modern fog]

For a serial killer with keys to my house, hasn't really broken in yet

I wonder if it's because there is no key

[bleak scaffold]

Riot was hacked last year... Zero Days could have been or could be found.

[modern fog]

There are no traces of such things

The stuff that got hacked was legacy related things

[vivid prism]

well tell that to genshin players, as that is exactly what happend

anyway, if i start league now will it try to sintall that malware automaticly ?

[oak gulch]

Ure talking about massive accounts hack through ac?

[oak gulch]

Not yet. Vanguard comes in 14.4 or something like that

Rn they just gather pc specs

[vivid prism]

well yeah i know it will be enabled latter, just wondering what is that "preparation for vanguard"

[oak gulch]

I think they want to check average pc specs cause vanguard has some technical issues

[modern fog]

They never hacked Genshin

What happened was a malware acted like it was the Genshin anticheat

It's not installing itself through the game itself

Oh now I think about it

Vanguard is actually going to potentially help fix a major problem with MMO games. Vanguard will hopefully combat the rampant bot usage that ruin those games

[vivid prism]

vanguard will do no such thing, it will add an inconvencience layer, for a short while and thats it, its exactly how it was bypassed at that 2 days after valorant launched ?

[summer hemlock]

That’s the entire meaning of a zero day. An exploit that isn’t known by the developer yet..

[tropic mason]

I dont really care. Been playing valo for years and I only had problem with vanguard once

[modern fog]

Oh my bad, I don't know about that technical jargon

[modern fog]

There was a yt posted earlier about how difficult it is to hack in Valorant because of Valorant that I would highly recommend

[dense mango]

which is irrelevant as undetected cheats already exist in valorant.

[modern fog]

@carmine beacon One thing I want to know, do you think it's fine for any anticheat to run on the kernel level?

I get you are afraid of Vangaurd since it's 24/7 but I would assume you wouldn't want any anticheat software to run on the kernel level to begin with, right?
Is this safe to assume with everyone who is a skeptic of Vanguard?

[vivid prism]

already watched that video before, and my point stands, ir removes rage "hackers", but those that want to hack will hack, and those that do that still will be in "high elo" where 90% of the people wont even play

been playing since end of s1, i can count on one hand how many scripters i encountered in those years, been playing in ranks from 900 elo in s2 to gm at some seasons

also now it gives people more incentives to find holes in vanguard, as massive amount of new potentaal targets are comming, that will have something operating 24/7 that can be exploited

[modern fog]

vanguard will do no such thing, it will add an inconvencience layer
If you watched the video how can you say that it's only an "incoveniance"?

for a short while and thats it, its exactly how it was bypassed at that 2 days after valorant launched ?
Never said all cheaters will be gone, but I think it is an undeniably fact that Valorant has the most effetive anticheat in the gaming space

While in your personal experience you may have not experienced scripters but can we both agree that is just your own personal opinion?
There is a sizable number of influential and non influential players who do have this issue.
Should Riot ignore them? If Riot does ignore a vocal portion of their playerbase, how would reflect it off of Riot as a company?

Second, there will less scripters, bots (which will directly affect smurfs who buys these botted accounts for cheap) and the possibility of an effective HW ban (to an extent)

[vivid prism]

only benefit i actually see is that botted accounts will be gone, at least for a while so people might not run it down as much

and that inconvencince means just investing a bit more, because those that scrip at the top of the ladder do that for profit, so yeah, just an investment for them

[modern fog]

I have my doubts on the effectiveness of hw bans to begin with, but I'm hoping it will be atleast harder to do so compared to not having Vanguard

[modern fog]

It's also becomes an expensive business to run now

I think it's been long overdue that Riot tried to tackle these issues

And trying to turn a blind eye to these issues don't make it go away

[vivid prism]

anyway, i dont think peoploe have a problem with riot stepping up their AC, the problem is that how it is being done, i dont care if program runs in ring 0 while i have that said game open, when i close it, it should be gone that is all

[modern fog]

Two things:

1. Such a ring 0 anticheat is basically useless. Lots of games currently run their anticheats that way but cheating is still such a huge issue with those games. The reason for why is because cheats run on the kernel level, as you saw from the video.
2. The major issue several people have an issue with any kernel level software is that "any of them can just claim to not be running but could secretly can since they have kernel level acess". It comes down to trusting that the software isn't running when it's not.
   2a. Tho I have serious doubts that Riot would risk major lawsuits and loss of trust of their community to do this but again that's where several people on this thread will disagree.

[vivid prism]

for the record riot does not really care about "trust of their community", they wont take any accountablty When shit will hit then, and it will, doubt lawsuits will happen regardless

for the second point, this is the first time i'm hearing this xd

[modern fog]

This is just one of the times I saw this sentiment

I been following this thread from the beginning

[vivid prism]

to be fair it is a valid concern xd

[forest trout]

they already pointed out to get a new pc if your laptop is before 2016

and must have windows 11, lovely os

[latent vector]

Hopefully w11 will be actually good before 2025

[vivid prism]

funny, got system running here that is older than 2016 by a fair armount (still runs everything fine, chucked new gpu in and off i go), and as far as iv heard you dont need to have w11, w10 will work if you dont have that chip

[latent vector]

w10 end of life is next october I believe or somewhere aruond the end of 2025

May have to try tiny11 and see if it runs well

[forest trout]

lol does not run on mac 12 not 13 but also expensive as a replacement

[vivid prism]

not like people will stop using it at 2025-01-01 00:00

[latent vector]

No more security updates so people will slowly transition out

[forest trout]

by the end of the year

[latent vector]

It's supposed to have it's eol in october of 2025

[modern fog]

and w10, both are free upgrades btw

[forest trout]

🤔

[modern fog]

Also there were issues with w11?

What are the major issues with windows 11?

[karmic blaze]

Run tpm

Which is hated by community

[modern fog]

what's wrong with it?

[karmic blaze]

It slow up boot system

[modern fog]

Can you post proof of this? I'm finding some reddit threads about the topic that says it shouldn't slow the boot up, but maybe you have a different source?

[small path]

I've been on Win11 for over a year now. No complaints, working great. (I went w/ Win11 on this build because I have a new enough Intel CPU that I have P and E cores and Win10's scheduler wasn't really aware of the difference and how to assign them optimally to tasks (e.g. the P-cores are higher performance and are you want dealing with intensive process threads).

[carmine beacon]

i HIGHLY prefer if anticheat doesn't run on kernel level, in certain cirumstaces like a "ranked only mode" similar to Face-IT its fine because its opt in, and I can purely choose to ignore it

But force 24/7 is fucking WILD, like let me opt out of ranked league and keep it off my PC then

The main problem with 24/7 is that you can't tell if something goes wrong who and what to blame because its just running as a background process, so you could get absolutely fucked and there could be someone on your PC for years tracking and watching everything and you'd have no idea because they can work outside the bounds of your OS and anon because the software wasn't running when anything got executed. Its a serious risk to have it installed

[modern fog]

I get that but a kernel level software can easily act like it's not running in the background by hiding it's activity, no?

[latent vector]

yes

[modern fog]

So let's say a comprimised anticheat like EAC or BE gets hacked and continue to run in the background

Then it's no longer an opt in, and by your logic you wouldn't want to play those games

[latent vector]

Eac and Be are the same thing but all the people would need to do is make your pc run the driver to launch eac/be

Which is easier to hack into I believe since vanguard will see you're tampering with it earlier

[modern fog]

Battleeye and Easy Anticheat are the same thing?

[latent vector]

They basically are but I said it in the sense that they are also kernel

[modern fog]

Oh that's what you meant lol

[latent vector]

It would make more sense though to make vanguard for dia+ ranked be required or something like that but then scripters will just infest norms

Also is client broken rn? can't open the game it's just stuck on the loading screen

[modern fog]

^ yep exactly what happened with csgo

[latent vector]

vac is an ac that literally just doesn't work lmao. most of the bans come from people reporting people rather than actual detections

[modern fog]

But anyways the reason why I asked those questions was I don't get why anyone is more afraid of how Vangaurd is 24/7 since if the software has kernel level access.
They have the same risk as Vangaurd

[latent vector]

chinese company

[modern fog]

Yep anyone who would be hacking on face it can't because of the kernel ac, but VAC is completely vulnerable

[modern fog]

lmfao i wonder if anyone genuinely has that kind of sentiment on league

like you're already playing games owned by tencent

[latent vector]

No one has complained about other ac's as much have they?

[modern fog]

hahaha true

[latent vector]

tencent owns quite a bit more than I thought lol

[modern fog]

I thought they owned the entire company?

[latent vector]

I thought they were more into the smaller / niche game market but they own a lot of epic games and activision and cod franchise

[modern fog]

Oh yeah a lot of chinese companies own a bunch of western companies

[latent vector]

Ah 40% of epic. 5% of activison and 25% of cod

Lots of people who are in cyber sec are scared of vanguard but for the most part what would riot gain from doing anything malicious with it and they are good with their opsec to where it isn't that big of a scare to me personally

[modern fog]

@carmine beacon anyways will love to know your opinions on this

[latent vector]

Most people don't have anything worth too much on their pc and if they're playing games on a work/confidential computer it's their fault in the end since you shouldn't be.

[modern fog]

And if any other anti vangaurdians also would agree on this train of thought?

[latent vector]

have you played enshrouded btw

[modern fog]

No what's that?

[latent vector]

valheim killer game, came out today

[modern fog]

lmfao that second trailer on steam is hilarious

How is the game? I feel like my friend group mightlike the game since they love Baldur's gate

[latent vector]

It feels pretty fun. Trying to convince my friends to play it too but they only wanna buy it if everyone plays

definitely a runescape-y vibe to me. But it feels like it will be a fun 100+ hr game or more if you wanna play every class indepth

[modern fog]

Is the game like a story game or a open world type of progression?

Cause that was one of the biggest issues with BG for me because it's so dependent on your friends being there or not

But if it is more like a Rust/Minecraft type of progression, I would def be interested

[latent vector]

Open world

You can play the game like it's terraria. Do everything on your own then group up for bosses or go everywhere together

It gives you a quest system and you aren't forced to follow it but it helps you progress since some of those things are very helpful or required to go further

[modern fog]

Bet bet I guess ill have to see if I can convince my friend group now LOL

[dense mango]

Gotta love how much misinformation there is :)

A face it admin was literally caught playing 50 games with a cheater a day or two ago

It’s not some godlike insane unbeatable ac

Neither is vanguard

[modern fog]

[karmic blaze]

It Tpm 2.0

[modern fog]

Can you show proof that the community hates it and why their hate is valid?

[grizzled cedar]

also supercell

[grizzled cedar]

from what I've found it can cause a slower boot up of your OS but also makes it more secure and safe

[vivid prism]

weird take, sometimes i do work stuff on my pc, sometimes i check my military stuff on it, as it goes for most people, one pc at home to. do everything

[sterile ravine]

Wooooooosh

[grizzled cedar]

nobody said it is? nobody said it stops ALL cheaters, but it stops far more than other acs do

[dense mango]

(it doesn't)

[grizzled cedar]

except it does? which is why valorant and faceit dont have rampant cheating problems

[dense mango]

both of them have plenty of cheaters

[grizzled cedar]

yes, but it isnt a significant problem

[dense mango]

neither is it in league

only issue was high elo this end of season, and that's on riot, nothing else

[sterile ravine]

That's a false statement. It's been a problem in high elo for over a decade now.
The other main issue it also catches is botting. It takes significantly more effort to set up bots now, thus reducing the supply of botted accounts, and raising the cost of them.
The majority of ranked players and players in low mmrs have been complaining about botted accounts for alts and smurfs, and Riot decided to use Vanguard to approach the problem.

[dense mango]

that's a clown take right there, it has not been a problem in high elo for a decade, I'd know, I've been playing in high elo for over a decade
botters will move to macos, they won't be affected
vanguard is not meant to combat alts/smurfs, nor has riot made any statements implying that they will combat them (they won't)

[sterile ravine]

You're either intentionally lying or are talking through confirmation bias.
It is an extremely well-known problem for years. There has been entire scripting servers, reverse-engineering communities, and cheat threads posted since a decade ago, and hundreds of high elo streamers have been consistently talking about them.
Hell, people even got youtube channels off of simply scripting in dia+.
There's tons of video logs of cheating from Season 4 and up. Did you forget about the Sion and Nunu script that was everywhere for 2 seasons? There's too many examples to discredit cheating as a problem. Obviously, cheating doesn't guarantee a win, but it definitely is extremely annoying to know that someone is cheating in a competitive game.
If there's a scripter in even 1 out of 50 games, that's far too many for a game that is supposed to be competitively sound.

Botted accounts are done remotely through VMS in ways not too far from bitcoin mining. What vanguard does is enforce TPM 2.0 and checks for botting softwares, which again increases the workload to create botted accounts since you cannot create multiple accounts on a single machine, and you can't have them mass queueing together as easily either. Saying that they'll simply "move to macros" is pretty ignorant of what botting does. The rest I've already written. Also nice strawman saying that Vanguard is not meant to combat alts/smurfs. The problem was always the botted accounts to level 30 and iron accounts.

[dense mango]

wow there are communities? never would have thought! surely that must be rare in valorant!
season 4 was the height of the scripting problem, riot killed it by making massive changes and suing the big players, the amount of scripters now is not even a drop in the bucket compared to what it was like back then
I play a minimum of 2000 games a season, majority of them in challenger, but surely I'm talking through confirmation bias, the only time it's been an actual issue was the end of last season where riot did nothing despite streamers having scripters in quite literally every single game on stream
what? botting accounts not far from bitcoin mining? XD

vanguard won't be active in macos, hence botters will just move over, and if you think you can't run multiple accounts on a single machine or can't queue them together.... oh boy!

I didn't mention macros, I mentioned macos

the problem has never been botted accounts to lvl 30 or iron accounts, it's not a strawhat argument, vanguard is literally not meant to solve those issues as riot has not interest in tackling them

[sterile ravine]

This one is a fault for misreading MacOs as Macros. However, this isn't really true because of the playerbase. Ask yourself how many people play on a Mac vs a Windows pc. The customers buying and using the scripts aren't going to buy a mac to just to cheat, and the mac players who do want to cheat is a miniscule amount, to the point that there's not a market to make cheats for.

[dense mango]

I did mention botters would move to macos, try to keep up

[grizzled cedar]

and they literally owned up to their mistake of reading it incorrectly? lmfao
but their point is correct, people arent going to start buying macs just to script or bot in league

[sterile ravine]

And this one is simply not true. Riot has been banning bot accounts in waves just like they do with cheaters with Vanguard

[sterile ravine]

nah that's another misreading by me. I mentioned scripts, he meant botting

[modern fog]

Macros get caught by Vanguard as well

[dense mango]

[modern fog]

Any public macros will get caught, I heard that private macros might not

But as far as I'm aware the most common cheats for Val is triggerbots

[dense mango]

[modern fog]

Can you prove that you can macros in Valorant then?

I would like to know how hard or easy it is to program your own macros and cheat with it

[dense mango]

[grizzled cedar]

usually this or walls

[modern fog]

Walls are not common

[sterile ravine]

While that is again another valid claim, the point still stands that botters are often coding in windows, and not MacOs. It'll be a cat and mouse chase for this as much as scripts are, but a lot less of a problem for several months.

Scripts are less of a problem definitely after they started their anti-cheat back in S4-5. However, they were still a definitely existing problem all the way until the client update. Examples of the
Then cheaters found their way around the client update and it was back again. And the reason why it's confirmation bias is because there's a myriad of cheats that aren't as easily detectable. One of the many examples is permanent vision of enemy cds and range. You cannot detect that easily, but the fact that there are a lot of higher leveled and ranked accounts getting banned for this shows that there are a lot of cheaters and that it is a problem.

The fact that it got as bad to the point that people were blatantly cheating on easily detectable scripts shows that the cheats and scripts had been going on and advancing so far past the anti-cheat currently used by league that there wasn't really much of a method to ban them all.
And to dismiss it as a problem that only appeared at the end of S13 is incredible. From the end of S12 to the beginning of S13, there were so many complaints about scripts. So many that it ended up with a lot of videos being posted about cheating. Hell, tons of scripters show videos of them still being able to play in high elo because League's anticheat can't detect it at all. It's only when enough reports and gameplay combing goes through that it does get detected and the account gets banned.

Walls on league too lmfao

[modern fog]

Triggerbots are easier to get away with compared to walls atleast according to the valorant cheating forums and the video that was posted ago

Since you have to make your own cheat that also bypasses the check systems of Vanguard

Which is also an expensive task just to cheat on a game

[dense mango]

reading comprehension is really difficult isn't it nyangi

[modern fog]

nvm im not that childish

[dense mango]

irrelevant, botters will flock to macos for botting purposes, the income justifies the learning curve, it won't solve anything
"the fact that there are a lot of higher leveled and ranked accounts getting banned for this" - proof?
people were blatantly cheating because riot stopped giving even the slightest fuck, I wouldn't be surprised if they disabled their anticheat, they tend to go full awol during their holiday breaks
not that it matters, thinking vanguard is some kind of magic silver bullet is genuine delusion

[modern fog]

You know you can't play Valorant on Mac, right?

I was going off the benefit of the doubt that you already knew this and why I was talking about macros

[dense mango]

you know we are not talking about valorant and we are talking about botting in league right? and that macos will be supported and won't get vanguard?

[modern fog]

That's my bad, I thought you were talking about Valorant's Vanguard

[ornate veldt]

did valorant patch macros with razer mouses?

[modern fog]

From what I'm seeing most hacks/cheats/macros have to be self made

If it's public or copied from someone else then it's going to ban your acc

So you have to have some coding knowledge

[ornate veldt]

i don't think copied from someone else will get you banned, cause they would want to be using something undetected

public, yeah. highly doubt they will last at all.

i saw the processes needed for valorant and it requires some money investment

[forest trout]

who said tpm 2.0 slows your pc

tpm 2.0 is just a physical hardware chip to secure your laptop

the thing with windows 11 is th at it IS A MUST of the os design so it is required

[summer hemlock]

You can run windows 11 without tpm 2.0

[vivid prism]

it is not a must

[latent vector]

Yeah, you shouldn't be checking military stuff on the same pc you play games on big security risk as you're much more likely to get malicious stuff on a pc you're downloading more things on

[latent vector]

hacks and cheats that are pastes are much easier to be detected. The more people on a single cheat the more likely that cheat becomes detected since files match across pcs

This is the same reason why all extremely good and cheats that go undetected for a very long time have small userbases

Additionally most of these cheats too no one knows about apart from people deeply integrated into that games cheating community ^

[modern fog]

^

[drowsy hazel]

Is autohotkey bannable

[small path]

Why are you necroing a 8 month+ old thread?

[thorny dirge]

desperation it seems

[long tangle]

yes autohotkey is bannable

otherwise i would be able to play eve by binding q to a macro

someday riot will allow spam abilities like karthus and eve to be held down

[drowsy hazel]

thanks sounds good