#No European teams made it to the playoffs at Worlds 2023! What do you think went wrong?

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teal oyster
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This is the first time since 2014 that not a single European team has qualified for worlds playoffs. To make it worse for them, NRG qualified by beating G2 in a series that was not even close. What do you guys think caused this downfall of EU?

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@grand granite i'm pretty sure you have a lot to say reksaiSip

grand granite
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Kick the frauds

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Of course we don’t do anything when our region doesn’t have any drive to train and hired people like BB, Chasy, Noah and Crownie lol

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If the MRS MAD project happens I’ll have hope

teal oyster
wide merlin
vocal basin
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EU has been on the decline for a while it ain’t a surprise

wide merlin
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Eh G2 just had to show up to the NRG series and very little would have been different.

grand granite
grand lake
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I think that EU has always just barely made it out based on tie breakers and luck of groups. Take that away and we get what happened this year. You still have luck from the draw (NRG had an "easier" route than KT I've seen arguments around) but they still had to win the same number of games against the same number of teams. They still had to win a Bo3. No-cheese, no dumb luck, no single upset game from a minor region that puts you out of groups.

Every team finally had complete control of their ultimate destiny, and EU showed us that when that happens they just don't have the ability to perform like they did with Bo1s and tie breakers.

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With this format you need more than just a lucky game here and there, and that's EU's statistically worst environment to play in. G2 CRUSHED in Bo1s, and subsequently got SMACKED in Bo3 (the most decisive loss of which was NRG, by the way) and the rest of EU kinda crumbled internationally as we've always seen.

Typically it's a 1 horse race for both EU and NA to get out of groups with a single team. Either FNC back on the day or G2 lately. Every year some team tends to lose 1 game in a crazy upset and that typically sends NA home and puts EU thru.

We can definitely say with a more "in control" format NA showed more control and more ability to fight (despite our G3s going south for C9 and TL)

We had better prep, we were actually punishing summoners, we saw some amazing team fighting, and we had relatively few baron flips (sure, we still had some, and we had had bad drafts as well -- it just wasn't the norm in all of the games. NRG especially are looking like NA's best worlds team in ages)

I definitely feel like the format is what went wrong for EU. They have no minor regions to do the lifting for them and push 'em thru groups.

You no longer have to wait for your opponents to lose to decide if you get to proceed, you have to do it all yourself.

Damn, Swiss was a wild ride.

vocal basin
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There’s a reason that team beat eastern teams in bo5s

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In a format like this G2 would have done even better

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This years EU teams are just crap that’s all

grand lake
vocal basin
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Yep

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Outmatched outdrafted stomped

tawny carbon
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honestly G2 was the only western team that beat any Eastern teams

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There bo3s were against GENG BLG and NRG

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NRG was their one and only chance

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but they fumbled the bag really hard there

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G2 was the only western team that actually had a goal to go far in Worlds

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from their interviews to their dominance in LEC

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also they won a nail biting game against BLG

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FNC also had a great resurgence they almost made it out too

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they beat C9

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and were really close to beating WBG

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at the end of the day its sad that no EU team made it out

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but I would say that EU had a better showing in swiss than NA

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(we dont count MAD as part of EU)

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atleast no EU team got knocked out by vietnam Copium

dense sluice
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end of the day they had 2 teams who had an actual chance i.e G2 and FNC

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FNC's roster in comparison to last year was worse even taking a game from WBG after looking shit vs c9 was an accomplishment

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regarding G2, I mean if you watched them you'd know they weren't goiod

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they nearly threw to dk

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needed wbg to throw to win

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looked hopeless vs Gen.G, got wiped by NRG then needed an Elk throw to win vs BLG

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they showed nothing of value to suggest that they were actually going to make it out

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plus if you have bb and hans, you're not doing shit

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top is either literal dogshit or your adc is a certified draven main

vagrant warren
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BDS had zero expectations that they absolutely outperfomed, that's the extent of LEC's success

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G2 hard griefing vs LCS

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MAD is just a fraudulent team to its core, they're swimming home through the Arctic Sea (y'all can leave Chasy in Korea, won't be missed by any EU fan)

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Fnatic is whatever, they did about as well as expected but still a disappointment

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ultimately issue is that LEC keeps recycling the same dogshit talent over and over and over

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trust me, if Sword was in the LEC he'd still be getting job offers. Or Clid. Or some other fraud

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this year was particularly bad cause of the format, which - although giving top teams a few extra games - just showed how goddamn lazy a lot of these older players are cause they're simply so confident that they'll find a top-paying position regardless of how they perform simply due to their name. And ofc cross-scheduling with EUM wasn't doing it any favours either with the stupid 3-week breaks

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aka Perkz tweeting a video of himself and his wife on the Croatian coast 3 days after they were eliminated from Worlds contention

grand lake
# vagrant warren aka Perkz tweeting a video of himself and his wife on the Croatian coast 3 days ...

I mean ... can you really blame him for wanting some time with his family after the year-end goal was missed? I'm sure he wanted to be at Worlds as much as anyone, but after he finds out he can't be what's he supposed to do? Grind out solo queue alone for 5 months to prep for next split? Just give him some time to try to get over the losses and spend time with his family who he's definitely not been seeing very often since the split started.

I won't fault any player for having some time to de-stress after a loss. They're humans, after all.

karmic horizon
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I also agree with the recycling thing... Eu needs new fresh talent, possibly from EUM. I think players like Oscar and Noah and Yike are a good starting point but we need to get rid of these " veterans" and start anew.

Fnc already threw a split to consolidate the team, and they might do much better next year if they keep the same roster. Same with G2 but they need to switch bot and top, BB is just not the topfather anymore at all.

It's not like the other leagues dont recycle, i mean Korea and china are kinda switching around the same players for a while, but those players are actually good players . We instead are recycling trash for other washed up trash.

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Eu teams should consider throwing a split or two and get their chances with rookies to build a strong team for the only split that counts, Summer split

wide merlin
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Rebuilding works better when there's something like US style drafts.

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Throwing a year just gives you better pics for the next one

teal oyster
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thats almost confirmed at this point

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Noah won't be with them next split

alpine hollow
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Noah def had potential to be a very good adc

alpine hollow
grand granite
# alpine hollow Is that confirmed? thats kinda sad

No, heavily rumored, with context why FNC got Noah it also makes sense

TLDR; far from the best tier 2 adc, but he was the best one without a contract. ERL orgs don’t sell talent to orgs mid contract unless they want to drop them.

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Rekkles dropped the “im role swapping” last second to FNC

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and they had to scramble when it was an awkward 3 split off season

tawny carbon
vagrant warren
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like how Rogue kept Odo after they won their first ever LEC split

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or MAD after winning 2 splits of Humanoid

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oh wait

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oh wait

hasty spindle
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only created a few days ago but more messages than most threads here

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ppl really are passionate about eu

vagrant warren
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ye a lot of EU fans are passionate about their region going to shit

young heart
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What happens when you cut jankos, you lose.

teal oyster
grand granite
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despite what haters say, Europe winning worlds is not off the cards with its sheer talent and scale. It has a larger player base then Korea

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but we are going in the opposite direction

teal oyster
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also i still remember how when the LEC format changed to 3 splits everyone was hyping it up, saying that eu would finally perform better internationally

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ahhhh the good old days

grand granite
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More games is important

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But our rosters are kekw

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A good portion of our worlds rosters didn’t send top regional talent

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at least we seem to be having a strong off season rn.

thin tundra
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I dont think anything went wrong, EU was just never that much ahead of NA like many of their fans on reddit and twitter say they are, it just finally got exposed.

tawny carbon
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FNC was able to reverse sweep C9

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and G2 were the heavy favoruites from the west

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not to mention the BDS vs GG series clueless

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but I think ur right about the difference not being much

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but seeing how G2 was doing in scrims

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and the potential they seemingly had

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its just sad

wide merlin
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Last year's was weird too with EU teams doing fairly well vs eastern teams day 1 and then dropping the ball vs NA teams even day 2, 3

raw hound
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Golden guardians are honestly the biggest frauds of all 8 western teams

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I won't say that again though, I'll still shit on g2 exclusively

coarse briar
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EU teams need to actually build rosters better tbh

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I swear to god out of every major region EU has the most roster swaps

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Peeps come and go like hot cakes

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If you want more consistent results you need some level of stability

grand granite
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nah

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most regions swap rosters often

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But it’s tier EU has has roster building

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Outside T1, the vast majority of teams change

vagrant warren
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basically every region changes players a lot, but the deal is that they don't recycle the same ones over and over